Episode 1 - An Introduction

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A different format, different style of debate, a lot of topics covered last night. So not much opportunity to get into any of them in great detail. My, I don't know whether we've discussed this on here or off here or both, but my argument is they've done their time. And we need to, someone needs to be brave enough in the media to pull the pin and let's just approach this differently. Do you have a view on that or not? - I think if you look at where a lot of people are consuming the content of the debate, it's not watching the debate from end to end. It's that it gets clipped up, it gets put on social media. By the way, the parties do their own clips, the news outlets do their own clips, and a lot of people are still seeing that. So it is still useful for producing some material that gets out there, that gets people engaged in the political debate. - What have you clipped up this morning from last night that makes you look fantastic that you've set to music? - Oh, there's plenty of that. I mean, there were plenty of moments in that debate. I mean, the fact that the Prime Minister of Christopher Luxon was trying to claim that the minimum wage has gone up every year by inflation when it hasn't. And in fact, the opposite has happened. Minimum wage workers have gone backwards. I think was a shocker of a moment. Him reciting nine to five is his favorite Dolly Parton song, seemingly unaware that it's actually about woman complaining that they're not being paid properly. - No, but a strong though. - It's a great song. - It's a great song. - Yeah. - A couple of things I think you got away with. One, you didn't seem to answer the question, can you swim? - Oh yeah, I can swim. Oh, you can swim. - Yeah, no, he just never came back to me on that one. - Oh, okay. - But I mean, I wouldn't say that I'd be, I'm not gonna be competing in any Olympics, my question. - But you're not gonna, you're not gonna save myself for fighting against it. - You're not gonna drown. The other question I worry about, it was you again, it was about your batch. And do you think or perceive of a day whereby a person in your circumstances, for example, could have a batch, and we don't all angst about it? - I hope so. I mean, it's been part of the Kiwi dream for a long time. The idea that you can work hard, that you can get ahead, you can own your home, and if you do well, you can have a family batch. I feel very, very fortunate to be in that position. - Okay, but there's nothing unusual about you. Having a batch is there. I mean, you're not loaded, you're not a trust fund, a wealth fund guy. It seems that we still ask, it's the billionaire question again. - Yeah, I have a mortgage, I have a big mortgage, and I make choices about how I spend my money. - Exactly. The opposition, not the opposition, the top party, the opportunities party, are they still in your view a wasted vote? - I want every bunch of vote. - No, I know that, but you said the other day, it's wasting your vote. Do you still think that? - Well, when I argument around the opportunity party, there was you're giving your vote to somebody else effectively, because they would then choose who gets to be the government. My argument is cut out the middleman, vote Labour. If that's the government you want, vote for it. - But it's not a very MMP answer though, isn't it? - Well, MMP requires you to work with other political parties, and of course I'm open to that. I've recognised that people will make different choices, but I want as many people to vote Labour as possible. - I've got so far five polls of the seven Maori seats. Two, I don't think I've been polled Northern and Auckland. You are two of five so far. Are you worried or not? - Are we working hard in the Maori seats? And I'm always, I'll be really frank with you. I'm always quite skeptical about the polls of the Maori seats. If you take the late Adrian Rudarfe, who we farewelled last week, every poll in his seat showed that he was going to lose and every election he won. So I'm a little skeptical about them. But, you know, Maori seats are very, very hard to poll. - Even with the gaps in of the five four of them, Packer's seat seems a little tighter, and you've got some heavyweight players on that particular electorate. But the others, whether they go your way or the Maori party way, the gap is enormous. You still don't see that as a read on what's likely to happen. - We're competing vigorously in all of the Maori seats. And as I said, you know, so the one that you just mentioned, Debbie Nadi, were Packer standing in the seat that Adrian Rudarfe used to hold. Every poll showed that he was going to lose that seat in every election result. He actually won recently comfortably. - Update us on this thing yesterday that you announced from the Superfund. You're taking money from the Superfund. I don't know that it was covered that well because you've got two funds going. So you take the money from the Superfund. This is for something different to what you originally announced. - Yeah, so there is the Elevate Fund, which was set up under Labor. And it's basically a fund within the New Zealand Superfund that invests in venture capital. And we put about 300 million into it. The national government have put about 100 million into it. We're saying we're going to add another 50 million per year over the next four years. So that's another 200 million. This is a fund that is investing in a lot of those, you know, really dynamic new Kiwi businesses that have huge growth potential for us as a country. And it is a good thing for the Superfund to be doing. It's only a very small component of what they're doing. But investing in growth potential for New Zealand is good for us because it gives a good return to the Superfund in the long term. But it grows Kiwi businesses. - That's the concern, does it? Because there's a risk factor there. - There is more of a risk factor, but it's a very, very small one. That's why it's still a very small fraction of what the New Zealand Superfund is. But if you look at some of the successful businesses that they have been backing, it shows that they're actually making good decisions about where that might be. - Okay, my other concern is do you start to treat the Superfund as a piggy bank for ideas? - No, and that's where you've got to be very careful. So this is still a very small component of what's going into the Superfund. - Okay. The Greens problem of which is too old, you aren't to some of it last night. This, this, this gang, it's not just they visited. It's the photos. It was party time. - No, no, I mean, there's something apparent about that, isn't there no political parties should be campaigning alongside the gangs or seeking their votes or seeking their support? Gangs are the cause of so much misery. They are huge perpetrators of violence in our community and particularly violence towards women. You know, I've seen evidence of that on my own electric first hand of women desperate to get out of abusive relationships with gang members. I don't want to be seen alongside gangs. I don't want any of our MPs or candidates seen alongside gangs. They are, they are a scourge on society. - So how is it you coalesce with these people, these gang loving members of society? - Well, those are questions for them. I've been very clear that that's not the sort of thing that I would want, that I would tolerate in a government that I lead. - Okay, so if they had gone as cabinet ministers, what would have happened to them? - Well, we've certainly would have been sitting down and talking about the fact that it's completely unspeaking but not a sackable offense. - Depends on the circumstances, but that sort of thing, I just don't want to see that. - A really yesterday was partying with them in those photos. - Just an absolute lack of judgment and doing something like that. - Do you want to be, do you even want to be in the same room as those? That sort of attitude? - I don't want to be in the same room as the gangs. No, absolutely. - No, but what about the MPs that support that? Clearly. - Look, I have a major problem with that. I think it's a huge era of judgment. I don't think political leaders should be going out and seeking the support of gangs and gang members. That's irresponsible in my view. It validates the activities of gangs in a way that no responsible political leaders should be doing. - Chloe said yesterday from Queenstown, she's in the business of solutions. She's in the solutions business. Hence, you need to coalesce with the gangs. Does that sit with you well or not? - No, it doesn't. I mean, I'm in the solutions business as well. I want to see drugs being tackled in New Zealand. The gangs petal methamphetamine. We've seen methamphetamine use go up by a factor of three in just the last three years. Gang membership recruitment is running well ahead of police. There are now more gang members than there are police on our streets. - Well, let's look for solutions to that. Let's look at dealing with poverty. Let's look at dealing with reoffending. Let's look at dealing with drug abuse and drug addiction. That's how you tackle it. If you really want to go after the gangs, which I think we should, go after their income. Their income is made by peddling misery. So go after the drugs. - So this is the other problem you've got with the Greens. And so if I'm sitting there thinking, do I vote Labour, do I vote Greens, or what ever combination of it? The amount of money they're promising is farcical. Isn't it? - It's unrealistic to indicate that you could spend that much money over that period of time and there not be significant other economic consequences for that. - So even though you and I come from different political ideals, both of us can see that that is, I couldn't work with it. I mean, $6 billion for jobs. What the hell? - Well, that's the nature of MMP. I mean, Winston Peters now not only wants to re-nationalize the BNZ, he wants to re-nationalize two of the other major banks as well, according to Shane Jones this week. So, you know, all of us have to work with other parties who promoting policies that we might not agree with. - Yeah, but, but, but, the government have got the advantage of, at least, even though you would criticize them, they've got the advantage of three years, we sort of coalesced, we did a bunch of stuff, we agreed and disagreed, they've got a record to stand on. You've got a Green Party there that are just out the gate insane on money. How, and so what do I do as a voter thinking Labour green, 'cause you can't accommodate it? - Vote Labour. - No, I know that. - The stronger Labour is. - Yeah, no, I'm stronger, we're going to be as a government. - Yeah, but it's not real. Well, I'm, so I'm looking at a party of 15% and I'm thinking they're nuts. So, if I've got expectations as a green voter, I'm thinking something's going to come from this and me supporting them. What is it? - Well, I mean, you got to apply the same standard equally across the board then. How is Christopher Luxon going to pay to re-nationalize three of the country's four major banks? - No one takes it seriously. - It's a stupid policy. Everyone knows when it's a stupid policy. the things that the Greens do. No, we can say all of the things. Everything the Greens do is associated with vast sums of money, and you've already said just one tax CGT, that's it. That's right. And you're starting to rule out the Greens in terms of jobs and cabinet, etc. So do the Greens get anything, and therefore that leads to a gargantuan amount of disappointment for a Green supporter, doesn't it? Well, ultimately, you know, the voters haven't voted yet, Mike, and voters deserve the opportunity to do that. I'm pushing hard for more votes for Labour, because this bigger Labour is the more, you know, the stronger negotiating hand will be post-elections. Does it worry you, though, is what I suppose my overarching question? Does it worry you the gap between where you're at, and where they're at? Well, ultimately, if you can't agree on something, the status quo prevails. So I'm not going to agree to changes that we don't have a public mandate for, and this is where I do differ from Christopher Luxon. He did the opposite of what he told voters at the last election. So he supported a whole lot of acting New Zealand First Policies, despite saying no. I think he should have said after the last election, look, you can put those ideas up if you want, but National said we weren't going to support it, and we're not going to support it now. Okay. That is the approach that I will take after the election. So the train down the North Island, the six billion for jobs, the three billion for the supermarkets, they're all out. So we're not going to be nationalising the supermarkets. In terms of the train, we do want to see more investment in public transport. In terms of getting young people into jobs, I do want to see getting young people into the jobs, a priority for our next government. That doesn't mean we're signing up to everything that the Green Party are proposing. They can speak to their own policies. All right. See you next Thursday. Peace out.