Episode 05: The P

A note from the smart family. The statute of limitations in this case has expired on everything except murder. Anyone who comes forward with information will not be charged with any crime. After the ground penetrating radar search of Susan Flores' backyard in 2007, and up through 2010, investigators receive no significant information that leads to the location of Kristen Smart's body. Dennis Mann continues his campaign of keeping the Flores family on their toes though, marching with banners and signs around the central coast, and posting regular updates to his website sonofsusan.com. As Sheriff Ed Williams very publicly admitted in 1997, there's not much progress that can be made on the case without Flores' cooperation. And in 1998, Williams retires without making any significant break in the case. His successor Patrick Hedges is equally unsuccessful in locating Kristen Smart, charging anyone with her kidnapping or murder, or communicating with the smart family in Stockton. In fact, Hedges' entire career as the sheriff of San Luis Obispo is bogged down by scandals, and by the end, total public distrust. In 2007, one of his chief deputies discovers that Sheriff Hedges and his under Sheriff Steve Bolts, who was once the lead detective on the Kristen Smart case, have bogged his office, and been secretly videotaping him, believing him to be disloyal and possibly engaging in criminal behavior, a suspicion that ends up being baseless. When news about the illegal wiretapping becomes public, the sheriff docks himself $700, or the equivalent of a single day's pay, as a way to punish himself for spying on his own employee. The deputy isn't satisfied with that response, and sues the sheriff for just over a million dollars for violating his privacy. He gets just half of that, but it's enough for Hedges' constituents to lose faith in him entirely. In addition to the bugging incident, several lawsuits are filed against the Sheriff's Department during Hedges' time in office, when suspects and custody die while being restrained and in at least one case, hog tied. Even in his personal life, Hedges fails to maintain a respectable image. In January of 2009, his wife calls the San Luis Obispo Sheriff's Department, on the San Luis Obispo Sheriff, claiming that he's screaming at her and refusing to let her leave their house. Sheriff's deputies show up, but decide it's not necessary to take a report on the incident. Two months later, the couple separates, and Pat Hedges announces that he will not seek re-election. In an emailed press release, he claims that his biggest disappointment is not being able to bring a prosecutable case forward on the Kristen Smart disappearance. In 2010, all of the new candidates for his job make sure to distance themselves from him, to avoid being pulled into his undertow. Years later, Hedges will briefly make headlines again when he crashes his truck into a powerful and fire hydrant in the middle of the night. He's not arrested, and San Luis Obispo police will claim no drugs or alcohol were involved. This Smart Families' Luck with Law Enforcement Leadership in San Luis Obispo would almost be comical, if it wasn't so tragically responsible for keeping their daughter's case from being solved. But in 2011, it looks like that luck is about to change, because there's a new sheriff in town, and his name is Ian Parkinson. In his interview with DA Investigators on June 19, 1996, the interview I've referenced several times, where Paul admitted to lying about how he got his black eye, and then asked if he could go home to clean up concrete at his mom's house. There was a moment where they thought Paul was about to confess. As they pressed him on details, pointing out that his timeline wasn't making sense, and adding that another student had seen him at 5am in the communal dorm showers. Paul started to hunch over into a fetal position, folding his legs up, and pulling his arms inside of his t-shirt. But instead of folding under pressure, he responded, "If you're so smart, then tell me where the body is." And the investigators don't know. In early December of 1996, private investigator Susie McCainy is in a dry creek bed off Wasna Road. She's been hired by the smarts to follow up on leads, which they believe the sheriff's department has started to run out of. With her is a cadaver dog handler named Greg and his dog, Jacks. They're looking for the body of Kristen Smart, not based on any solid leads, but because of the map in Susie's hand, drawn by a psychic from Thousand Oaks who calls herself Cathy Lynn. The map shows a road that winds over a steep drop off, beneath which she's drawn four large boulders at the base next to an oak tree, with water flowing on the opposite side. A no-stradamus-like quattrain reads, quote, "Wedged between a boulder and a rock wall. Bear on one end and a shoe on the other. Red fabric or paper by her head." Susie McCainy doesn't have much hope for the search. "Good leads are like right away. And so I think that we lost 30 days, the first 30 days. My job was just to render some search teams. Some of it was based on psychic, some of it was based on, you know, facts. Do I believe in psychic? I think so, well, you know, I haven't found a body yet." I did work with one psychic, Marla. She was amazing. She'd come up from LA every weekend and do this search. But still, Marla hasn't found me in the body. I worked with Dorothy Allison as well. She took my keys and told me about my husband. And that night, she told him where his mother was born. I didn't know where his mother was born. I worked with this other guy who had four cases and the four cases he found three bodies. But the fourth one, which is Christmas fun, he didn't mind me. Nobody has actually led me to the body. Even though she can't explain how they've done it, she believes that some psychics have solved cases like this in the past. So she's reluctantly following up on everything the smart family receives. Law enforcement will usually treat psychics like any other informant. They look into the information to see if it matches information they already know. Because there's always the chance that the person claiming to be psychic is actually coming forward with first-hand knowledge, which they don't want to explain how they discovered. The Sheriff's Department also searches Wasna in 1996, but because their files are private, I don't know why. But there have been rumors that Paul used to hang out in the area. One of his classmates tells me he was kicked out of at least one party there in high school. And in 2004, this tip was sent anonymously to Dennis Mann's website, sonofsuzin.com. My last roommate used to live near Paul in Wasna, or a royal grand, and used to stay up all night with him after the murder because he was involved with meth andphetamines. She has never lied to me. And she told me that one night Paul admitted to her that he killed Kristin. And that she is buried very near his old residence in Wasna. People say a lot of things when they are on meth. I think he was telling the truth. And he was really laughing in the face of police because he had buried her in such an obvious spot where they have probably never even looked. I hope my tip can help in any way. I don't seek reward. I just want to see that bastard get what he deserves. The author of that tip has never come forward. If you know who might have written it, please reach out to me. For all of these reasons, the Wasna area has peaked my interest over the past year. Last October, I met a girl who, it turns out, has lived in Wasna her whole life. So I ask if she has heard any of the rumors that Kristin's smart is buried there. She is too young to remember the details, but her mom has told her about it. And she vividly recalls a time in the late 90s when on one of their hikes through an isolated creek bed, her mother seems startled to come across a woman's shoe. I am driving out to Wasna to meet a family who says they found a shoe out here in the mid to late 90s. The daughter was only about four at the time, but she says she remembers it well because she thought it was strange the way her mom reacted to finding something as boring as a shoe. So it stuck out in her memory. So they've agreed to go to the hospital. to take me down to the spot where they found the shoe to have a look around and see if it might tie into any of those other Wasner workers. Wasner is an unincorporated community about 10 miles east of a royal grande towards the mountains and away from the ocean. I've never been out here before and I can't help but take note of how much space is here. The road often runs alongside creek beds Surrounded by thick groves of trees that make it hard to see what's between them unless you're right up under them. And even if you could park and climb down the roadside Everything is surrounded by barbed wire fences and rusty hubcaps Hand painted with the words no trespassing Riddled with bullet holes from rebellious hunters who don't like to be told what to do Houses out here are often a mile or more apart and the private driveway to get up to the family's house is longer than the whole street I live on. Hello Okay, absolutely now that's fun. Okay Max eat here. Thank you So I used to take all the neighborhood kids on these hikes One time I saw the shoe but I just left it there because I knew the police either I know this is where my memory is not so great either they had been there and there was room where they were going to come and return. Okay, they had it come. Do you remember what you're this was? I'm thinking so my son was born in 98 And he was not walking I had him in a front pack. Okay, so He was born in June of 98 so I feel like it was 99 like early and it was a rainy season We used to hike up here because we went looking for there's a little like waterfall So it was green like this. I feel like it could have been February or March If her memory is accurate Investigators had already searched here by then According to newspapers on November 1st 1996 Five months after Kristen was reported missing. Sheriff's detective searched a quote can find area of wasna One month later Susie McAney the private investigator returned to the area with Jackson the cadaver dog and the hand drawn map from psychic Kathy Lynn along with her tip Wedged between a boulder and a rock wall hair on one end and a shoe on the other Red fabric or paper by her head In the first year the smart family followed up on every lead they received Desperate to find their daughter, but after an overwhelming amount of psychic tips some of them useless or nonsensical They stop jumping in their car to investigate everyone I imagine it gets exhausting to put your faith in anyone who claims to be channeling information Especially when that information is as trivial as what world renowned psychic Dorothy Allison had to say about the case Quote the killer has little ears We've driven about a mile up the road further into the heart of wasna The trail the family used to hike down his private property now But they've asked the owners for permission to bring me down to the spot where they found the shoe and they've agreed The owner a tall man in his seventies even follows us down the steep hillside with a shovel clearing brush and poison oak out of our way All right It's raining lightly and at one point on the hike down I slip and fall hard, but I don't think anybody notices Hey Just from a legal standpoint we're not giving you permission to Yeah, exactly. It's got ourselves in trouble. It's us Once we're at the bottom of the hill it's a long walk through muddy grass and overfallen trees The mother points out several more poison oak plants for me to avoid and I carefully step around them It takes just over 10 minutes to find the spot we're looking for where the shoe used to be But it looks just like I was picturing The bottom of a steep hillside the ground covered in dried oak leaves and acorn shells and several dead trees shooting up above it I've never put much faith in psychics But it's hard not to notice that this place is eerily similar to the picture Kathy Lindru Of the spot where she said Kristen's body could be found a crooked country road above us a steep rock wall below that I'm looking up at now The oak tree I'm standing under and the sound of water flowing in the distance The fact that the psychics vision specifically mentioned a shoe makes my spine tingle The neighbor kids would come with us because we'd all hike up here And there is a waterfall somewhere and I remember I think it was on the same time when we hiked up the hill There was a huge rainbow so I think I like remember it super well for that reason But I do remember Her seeing the shoot didn't like say anything about it obviously because we were all kids But I used to find stuff all the time like bottles and cans and stuff So it wasn't like super weird that there was a shoe I guess But I definitely always remembered it and then when I got older when I bring friends up here I tell them like oh my mom's not a shoe up here at one time it was so weird I mean it was flattened had no heel it was red I think it was red like patten leather not shiny It was way bigger than my feet and I'm like a seven Well six and a half yeah but it was a bigger shoe than my feet and I just thought wow I better just leave it here because And it could have just fallen out as someone's car driving you know I don't know why it was there and I just thought if somebody needs to see it it's here But I didn't make any phone calls or anything I just yeah I just thought it was weird things do fall out of cars. It was just that it was one shoe You know and it was just it looked like it had been there for a while didn't look brand new It looked kind of but it didn't look like it had been there for 10 years I don't know fashion shoe. No it was not oh no it was a it was a current shoe just like in a time frame It's a weird yeah it is I know I thought it was weird He said you found bottles and all kinds of stuff in here all the time Why did the shoe stand out to you at that point? Why did you stop and even think twice about it? Because it was a piece of clothing and because I knew they had searched here And it was a woman's shoe that's why it stood out to me upside down So you see the sole of the foot but you see the edges are red but I left it right where it was Yeah obviously I saw it somewhere it probably is buried under all this I'm sure you've heard sense that she disappeared in red shoes right? No you didn't know that? No She has no idea that Kristen was last seen wearing a pair of red shoes just like the one she found I tell her that Kristen was reportedly wearing a pair of Puma brand athletic shoes And while she can't recall every detail 20 years later She doesn't remember this shoe having laces on it Maybe more like a loafer or flat But it was also upside down and she didn't touch it I check with Puma and they do make a red woman's loafer But I don't think it qualifies as an athletic shoe So maybe it's nothing Maybe it's not the shoe we're looking for But still if Sheriff's investigators and search parties did a thorough search of this area in 1996 Then how do they miss a woman's red shoe that caught this mother's attention Which she describes as weathered and flattened as if it had been there for several years Is it possible that this shoe was buried in 1996 and uncovered by rainfall over the next few years Or is it possible that this particular area was never checked How many other areas have never been checked Even if it's not Kristen's shoe The fact that it remained untouched here for years makes me wonder what else is down here Hidden in plain sight At least one man who asked not to be identified says he saw Ruben Flores driving a truck through Wozna Followed closely by another pickup truck with a male driver who he didn't get a good look at He places the time as Memorial Day weekend 1996 because it was the same weekend as a Royal Grande's annual strawberry festival Too much time has passed now to verify this But if any member of the Flores family was out in Wozna around that time It's probably a good place to search For months Stand smart follows up on every psychic tip the family receives Driving thousands of miles to wherever someone says his daughter could be Occasionally friends from Napa join him and the apple farm in slow lets them stay for free In June of 1996 they searched Lopez Lake Santa Margarita Lake, Quest de Grey, and the Doon's south of Morro Bay, but turn up nothing. Stand crossed through tunnels and creek beds and hikes up mountains and 100 plus degree weather and never gets any closer to finding Kristen. But he doesn't feel like any of it was a waste of time. "After people would tell you where they thought she wasn't you went and looked and she wasn't, how did you feel did you feel taken advantage of?" "No not at all. Most I would say everybody that I encountered no one asked for money or notoriety they were trying to be helpful. Now obviously the notoriety if they were a seer, astrologist, etc., a doucher, numerologist, then they might want notoriety and they might want money. But most people were concerned for us, concerned for her totally and when we had large groups of people go out on searches, maybe 25 or 30 people. Merchants would provide sandwiches and water and I mean really nice wonderful things. So I only speak highly of the people that live in San Luis Bisbo and a Royal Grande. People were awfully nice as I went around looking for her if I said or I came to somebody's property and the gate was locked or whatever and I wanted to look inside and they let this strange man looking for his daughter go and look for her which was awfully nice you know I mean that speaks highly of the community. There were several people who were involved that thought they knew her daughter was located and we would go follow up on that look and and there was anybody that we turned away you know we I would drive up to Tahoe and Reno a person said oh she was in a vehicle going there we found her on the map and then she was down Cal Poly you know and I would go down there and go you go anywhere looking for your daughter and so if somebody said they spotted her but it's not her. You get your hopes up but they get dashed pretty quickly so but you never turn away you don't want to be the person that didn't follow up on something that you know it could be real. A popular theory on the Cal Poly campus was that Kristen's body was concealed beneath the foundation of the performing arts center or the pack which was directly across the street from the Red Bricks and in construction at the time. Construction had been ongoing since 1994 and the first events in the center took place in July of 1996 so it seems like much of the foundation should have been set by May but proponents of this theory are adamant that it wasn't. To bury her in an active construction site though would mean risking that a worker would spot her remains while pouring the foundation. Still like any other theory it can't be ruled out entirely until Kristen is found. Early on someone sent an anonymous card to the smart family that seconded this theory. At the bottom the author wrote quote "I did not have anything to do with this I swear I will use the name Jelly Bean." Investigators took the tip seriously going so far as to compare the handwriting to samples of individuals close to the case. 23 years later Jelly Bean has never come forward. If you know this person's identity please reach out to me. Another theory and the one that made the most sense to stand smart for many years was that Kristen's body was put in the dumpster behind Santa Lucia Hall. Paul Flores' dorm room was on the ground floor and had a window that faced the back parking lot which I measured as just 85 feet away from the dumpster. A garbage truck picked up on Saturday mornings at 7 a.m. so the timing would have been convenient. After that the contents would have been dumped at the Cold Canyon landfill. But according to the landfill supervisor each dump was carefully logged and sorted by date and location and employees have to pick through the incoming garbage one-load at a time to make sure that no hazardous materials are present. Besides that, Sheriff's Detective spent a few days digging in the section where Cal Poly garbage was taken and reportedly dug down until they unearthed issues of the Mustang daily from before Kristen's disappearance. Could her body have been missed? Of course. But the one thing that's missing from the dumpster theory and the pack theory that makes me doubt them is Ruben Flores. He had to call somebody for help. Paul's not, you know, he's not the right person. If you could recall when you were that young, I mean who would you call? My theory is that he called Ruben. It's a theory that Susie developed early on that only got stronger than what she investigated. And it's a theory that Susie and I share. Remember the person who reportedly saw Ruben and another driver and two separate pickup trucks out in Wasna over Memorial Day weekend? I want to talk about those trucks. Paul's parents bought him a 1993 Ford Ranger in high school, Mint Green. There's a picture of imposing with it in the Eroio Grande High School yearbook. This is the truck he would let his co-worker Lisa from Garland's Barrow and the truck Jackie's neighbors saw parked up her street when she found dead roses on her fence. Ruben owned a white 1985 Nissan pickup truck. So that's something. The Flores family did own two pickup trucks in 1996 just like the witness reported seeing. Ruben Flores was deposed by the smart Attorney James Murphy on November 14th 1997. The same day Paul took the fifth amendment to every question he was asked. But Ruben doesn't have the same privilege. His deposition was videotaped and James Murphy's office gave me a copy of the tape. The deposition has been being videotaped. Would you please sort of witness? Raise your light him please. The VHS tape was slightly warped in places. So occasionally you'll hear it slow down for a second and the mic sometimes feeds back a little. But it's a great reference of Ruben's story this many years later. When the topic of the trucks comes up Ruben's answers are conspicuously inconsistent. But then a few minutes later Sunday morning after the disappearance of Kristen Smart, how did Paul get out of the pickup school? And you picked him up in what vehicle? The Ranger. The Ranger that nobody had access to in May of 1996 because it was impounded. And did Paul ever have access to Ruben's 85 Nissan? Paul drive that vehicle. No. And then a few minutes later. Well, that was registered to the ball. And what was the change in registration from you to Paul? I don't know. In other depositions taken with Paul's co-workers, several of them confirmed that he regularly drove the white 1985 Nissan to work in the summer of 1996. And then it was registered to Paul sometime between then and the deposition in November of 1997. So when Ruben says Paul didn't drive that vehicle, he's not telling the truth. And when he says nobody had access to the Ranger in May of 1996, he's lying. Then there's the issue of the bedliner, the plastic component that pops into the inner bed of a pickup truck to protect it from being scratched or stained. If a body was in the back of either truck, the bedliners could be tested for DNA. The white Nissan truck had to have a bedliner like this. And in fact, how long had that bedliner been in that vehicle? The same one or different ones? Well, let's start with, in May of 1996 was the bedliner changed. No, it was the same. Okay, the one. Okay, so if I were to go back to May 1st of 1996, I would see a bedliner in your vehicle. Yes. Okay. And how long had that bedliner been in the vehicle prior to May of '96? Several years. After May of 1996, isn't it true that the bedliner was changed? No. Did you at any time after May of 1996 purchase a new bedliner for the vehicle? No, Nissan truck. Did your knowledge, did your son Paul Ford has purchased a new bedliner for the vehicle? No. But watch what happens when Murphy hints that he has a witness who says otherwise. Do you have any recollection of making any statement to any individual that you are going to change the bedliner as a birthday present for your son? I think we've got two things mixed up here. Okay. How am I mixed up? What's a, define a bedliner for me? Now, Ruben doesn't even know what a bedliner is, but he told at least one person that he got Paul a new plastic bedliner for his truck as a birthday present. There are holes and contradictions all throughout Ruben's story of the events of that memorial day weekend, and a lot of them revolve around the world. around the Flores family's two trucks. I can't figure out what his motive would be for changing his story about them so many times if they weren't involved in a crime in some way. So were the trucks ever searched by law enforcement? No. Neither one. Since his answers about the trucks are looking suspicious now, why don't they search them after the deposition? "Where is that vehicle now?" "We traded it in on another vehicle." "And where did you trade it in?" "Hice and Johnson." So the 1993 Ford Ranger is gone by 1997. A four-year-old vehicle traded in for another one. And the white 1985 Nissan? "You still on that vehicle?" "No. When did you sell that vehicle?" "It was stolen." "What was it's stolen?" "Mata Tugal." "And from where was it parked when it was stolen?" "Send the vehicle." "And did you report the theft of that vehicle to the San Diego Police Department?" "I didn't." "Who did?" "Paul." "I did. Paul tell you anything about how the vehicle wound up being stolen." "He drove to San Diego." "And what was he doing in San Diego?" "I don't know." "Do you know if he was visiting family?" "I don't know." "Do you know if he or if Paul has family in San Diego?" "It's not to my knowledge." "Do you know if Paul has friends in San Diego?" "Not to my knowledge." "Do you know where the vehicle was parked at the time it was last time?" "No." "Have you given the vehicle to Paul for his use?" "Yes." "Except if the Nissan was stolen a month or two before the deposition, that would have been September or October of 1997. When Paul was living with his sister in Irvine, and working at Outback Steakhouse with Melinda, who had to give Paul ride's home because he didn't have a vehicle or a valid driver's license. In the entire time she knew him, Melinda told me she never saw him with a vehicle. So how did his dad's white Nissan get registered in Paul's name? And then driven to San Diego where he apparently doesn't have any friends or family, and then left somewhere to be stolen. I have no idea. But both trucks are gone within a year and a half of Kristen's disappearance, and Ruben's answers about them seem evasive. It's not the only question he's evasive about. Ruben works for GTE, General Telephone and Electronics, as a payphone technician. His job is to repair, install, maintain and collect money from payphones on a circuitous route. But he absolutely avoids answering questions about what that route is. Some of the payphones are in rural areas, which Murphy obviously wants a list of. But Ruben's squints and studies the ceiling every time he's asked where any of those payphones are. Or even where the local GTE office is. Do you have a particular route that you cover in the process of servicing, collecting, repairing and maintaining payphones? Different routes. And is it a different route every day? No, mostly the same. Okay. And May of 1996, what would your typical route have met? You would start the morning and work out where? Well, what it looks, the question now, what I want to know is in May of 1996, you were employed by job, general, telephoto. And you have described your activities in your appointment, or to maintain the payphones. I had asked you whether or not there was a route that you took and you indicated that generally there is a route that you would take. Yeah. And who established what that route was? Computer. And do you receive a computer printout from your company? laptop. Okay. And is it a laptop computer that is with you in the vehicle? And you simply reference the laptop computer for instructions on where to go? Yes. So as I've never worked for the phone company, you don't just stop and check every payphone along the route correct. Not usually. Are you generally assigned specific locations? Where there is a problem with a payphone? Yes. Or collections. Perfect. Now, do you have a responsibility to go to certain payphones on a regular basis and collect the money out? Yes. And is that a generally known route? Meaning, do you have to go to your computer to find out where you're going to go when you're collecting? Yes. You simply have a collection route that you take on a regular basis. The computers. It's on a computer. All right. Would it be fair to say that, say for example, in May of 1996, that you would on a regular basis collect money out of all of the phones on your route? Yes. Okay. On a typical day when you were going to be doing collections, would you, what would the route be that you would take? You start off at your home in the morning. I'll start off at my designated place. Designated meaning without a computer? No, wherever the formant puts me. And then how often would you go and collect money, make your loot and collect money from the payphones? Every day. And where would you describe to me in general your first stop and then your path of travel that you would normally follow. If in fact you do follow it or will path of travel to collect this money out of the phone. Whatever the computer tells me. If you collect a phone, do you collect a phone money every day from every phone on your route? No. Do you collect money from the payphones on some type of regular basis? That is go to rural or rural or grandi on one day. His will be chanted another day. How does it work? Whatever the computer gives me the route. The computer routes. And the, where is the main office where the computer routes would be maintained? Or were, I don't know. Where is the main office for general telephone in this area? The head course of general telephone is GTE. Number one, GTE, place 1000 ox. Does your foreman have a local office on which he works? Yes. And where would that local office be? That's confidential. I would like to have a physical address where the phone company office is, where your form is confidential. And if you want information, you call a general telephone. Number one, GTE plays 1000 ox. And with the field, they want to give information. Where the conlimations feel. And that's what I know. With all due respect, I'm investigating the disappearance of smarts daughter. And I'm not overly concerned about your assessment of confidentiality. I would like to have the witness give me the physical address so that I can serve an appropriate subpoena to obtain his routes at or about the time of this incident. And I think I would be entitled to that information. If you, Mr. Koch, can think of a way that this can be handled. I think if you subpoena from 1000 ox, that's the main office that compiles all the records. And when the questions move to his route in May of 1996, he's even more hesitant to answer. What in May of '96, what would be the most rural phone or phones that you would service as a technician? Where would they be physically located? Did you understand the question? Yes. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Of the most rural telephone? Of where I work? No, I don't think he was asking that question. Okay, let me, let me rephrase it. Can you tell me what is the most rural location of a payphone in the eroid branding area that you would service in May of '96? General telephone is not in in the other area. - So there would be no phones in the Rio Grande City area that would be General Talker. - Right. - What is the nearest area to where you live in a Rio Grande that there are Gt-D phones that you service? - The nearest one. (clippers buzzing) - Antic store. Cuyama. - Another line of questioning that Ruben tries to avoid. Centres on an incident that happened back in Torrance. Before the Flores family moved up to a Rio Grande. In fact, right before they moved. It's an incident that demonstrates Paul's ability to become dangerously violent and his parents total denial of their son's guilt. In 1991, while he was in eighth grade at Bertlin Middle School, Paul got into a fight that put another kid in the hospital. Actually, fight might be the wrong word to use. Paul flew into a rage and beat a seventh grader in the head until he had to be taken to the hospital. The Flores is no all about it because the other kid was so badly injured, they were ordered by a court to repay his medical expenses. It was also recommended that they send Paul the anger management, but they refused. So admitting that their son has a history of violence when he's being sued for the wrongful death of a girl who was last seen alive with him. Isn't something Susan and Ruben are willing to do? In fact, during the deposition in 1997, it takes a lot of questioning for Ruben to even acknowledge that he knows which incident that Murphy is asking about. I've slightly edited this clip for time without changing the context. In the past, prior to the commencement of this lawsuit, to your knowledge has your son been sued for any act of misconduct or allegation of misconduct by him. (audience member mumbles) - There was a settlement, but I don't understand it. - Right, I'd like to ask you some questions about the settlement. Were you involved in the strike that was your son, a minor at the time that a person made a claim against him for damages in a civil action? - What civil action is this? - There was a settlement in a case that involved your son, correct? - Well, can I put the horse up front, the wagon, and start telling me what claim and what action before we get to, going backwards, 'cause I don't understand what claims are. I don't understand what judgements are. I don't understand what anything is. - You used the word settlement. And the settlement suggests to me that somebody paid so many to someone else. It's how you're understanding what a settlement is. - Yes. - And is it your understanding that someone paid some money to somebody else because if something your son was alleged to have done? - I'm not sure. I believe there was a settlement, but I'm not sure. - What is your understanding of what your son is alleged to have done to cause someone to pay a settlement on his behalf? - Where was this at? - Well, you had indicated that there was a settlement in a case where-- - But I don't understand what you're talking about. The same thing, what are you talking about? - Okay. - I wanna know what your son did to make somebody pay money to somebody else. - Where was this at? - Well, was there more than one settlement? - Where was, the one you're speaking about, a settlement, are you speaking about a specific settlement? - Yes. - And what settlement is this? - The settlement that you told me was paid. - I believe I'm not sure. Well, can you be specific? - Sure. Were you living in Torrance at a time that your son got in a fight with another individual? - Oh, that's what you're talking about. - That's okay. - Yeah, that settlement. And listen to how Ruben describes the incident. - What is it that your son was alleged to have done to this other person? - There were three persons. - Okay. - Okay. - Who were the three persons that were involved in this incident that were generally talking about? - What's their name? - Yeah. - I don't know. - Was your son accused of inflicting injury on someone when you live in Torrance, resulting in farm-respaining so many to the person who got in? - Yes. - Did your son injure one person or three persons? - I don't believe one. - You had said that something about there being three persons. What did you mean by that? - Three kids jumped on him at school. - So three kids jumped on your son at school? - Yes. - And then there was a fight obviously that occurred, correct? - Between four of them, my boy and three others. - And what were the injuries suffered by the person who received the money from farmers? - I don't. - Did you talk to your son about the fight that occurred when three people jumped on your son and ultimately farm-respained so many to son? - Yes. - And what did your son tell you happened in the fight? - He was walking on a playground and three kids came and started arousing him and pushing him around. And he pushed back and they grabbed him from the back, a couple of them. And he's pushing and shoving and trying to get away from him. - I don't have the audio of Susan Flores' deposition, but I do have the transcript typed by a court reporter. And here's her answer to the same question. I don't remember all the details. There was a number of students praying on the younger students. It was a sixth, seventh, eighth grade junior high situation. And there was continual stuff going on in that order. And one day there were three of them. And he took three of them on and one did get kicked. And I don't remember all the details of it. In fact, both Susan and Ruben seemed to have forgotten most of the details. - You know if the kid that got hurt was hospitalized as a result of injuries. Do you know the amount of the medical bills that were paid on behalf of the kid that got injured? - No, I don't. Do you know the name of the kid who got injured? - No, I don't. - Well, I do. His name is Nick Spritzer. I started looking for Nick months ago, leaving voicemails and emails, asking him to share his story. I didn't get a response. Until last week, when he was introduced to this podcast on a flight home and listened with his wife. He agreed to tell me about the incident. And it's a lot different than Ruben and Susan remember it. - He bullied me with regularity. I was a pretty neat child at that age. You know, work classes. And I remember other kids fixated on that. The day of the incident that happened to me was the day I decided that I was gonna stand up for myself and it just didn't yield the results I was hoping for. I believe he was happening during a PE class. And what happened was I decided to fight back. Like I said, I think it turned into a little bit of a shoving match. And at some point, that turned into a wrestling match and we were on the ground. And he was stronger than me. So he fairly quickly dominated me. He sat on my face with his legs outward towards my legs. And while he was on my face, I kicked. And I apparently landed quite well right in the center of his face. He got off of me and got up on his feet rather quickly while I was rolling over onto my shoulders so that I could stand up. But while I was still on my shoulder, he jumped up and stomped on my head. There's no way I could know this because I was hit over the head. I remember being told that he jumped up in the air with both feet off the ground and landed squarely on the side of my head with both feet. When I told my mother that last night, she remembered just being one foot. No way to know really which is which. I know I had a footprint on my face when I was in the hospital from a shoe. But regardless, there was a lot of force to my head and I was knocked out. When I came to, I woke up and there was a crowd of kids standing around me looking confused or concerned. I got on my feet, floor as was gone. And immediately I had several floaters in my vision. My vision went completely gray to the point where I would completely blind. And I had to have a friend of mine walk me to the nurses office because I could do it on my own. By the time I got to the nurses office, I couldn't remember my name, my mother's name, my home phone number, but somehow I managed to remember. where my dad's name is works on. He rushed down to the school, drove me immediately to our PD attrition. Our PD attrition apparently told my parents that she watched me deteriorate in front of her eyes. And basically, Panic said we need to go to the emergency room right now. So she walked out of her own practice with me and my dad went into his truck, drove immediately to the emergency room, which I think it was in a short distance away and ran into the emergency room. By that point, I was losing all motor control. I felt like my arms and legs were just slamming around and I had no control over them. And my dad didn't even turn the engine off or close the car doors because I was trying to tell my dad that he'd product or turn the car off or close the doors. And it just came out, garbled noises, and just made no sense. Then they brought me into the hospital. They got me on a table or a gurney or whatever. And at that point, I managed to ask my father if I was dying right before I really blacked out. And that was horrible for my father to go through. Because he didn't know. And then I was in and out of consciousness for several days. I was in the hospital for a total of five days. I think it was 72 hours before I could answer basic questions about what year it was or what my name was. Apparently I was extremely combattent and we emergency room that entire time. And they had to put me in a separate wing of the hospital because I was screaming as though I was re-acting to fight while I was in and out of consciousness. The only long-term consequence physically that I had-- I just asked my parents again about this last night was a dull headache I had for about six months. Paul was suspended from school for a whole three days. The principal apparently did suggest to one or both of Paul's parents that he felt he needed to see a counselor for anger management issues. And the parents just blew it off. And that's basically the incident. I send Nick a clip of Ruben's deposition so he can hear his version of the story. Did you sign and indicate to you that he had kicked a person in the head in that altercation? He had kicked when I don't know where he kicked me, man. Well, one boy was holding him. And he was trying to get away. He's doing everything he can to try to get away. And one kid got hurt. It is an utter fabrication. It can out-- it can outweigh a lie. Not long after their insurance paid thousands of dollars for Nick's medical expenses, the Flores is left to parents and moved up to a Rio Grande. To the same house where Ruben Flores still lives today. So when we're looking for the most likely location of Kristen's body, maybe we're overlooking the most obvious place of all. A few weeks ago, I got an email from a woman who said she was reluctantly contacting me because her niece had listened to the podcast and encouraged her to share her story. OK, I'm very nervous. I will do my best. So I was working with Susan Flores at Oshianna Elementary School as an instructional aide, as was she when Kristen's smart went missing. And during that week, she had a lot of anger about it. There was such disdain and hate towards the smart family, towards the-- I think it was Sheriff's, not police, whoever was investigating. And that made me mad enough to get involved and try to get as much information as I could to give to the attorney of the smarts. So I befriended her. And say why I started to go to lunch with her, went to the graduate to dance with Susan on purpose to meet Ruben the father. Oh my gosh. I mean, that's kind of when I really-- I mean, the hair is on the back and my next to that. Susan Flores told me he's extremely violent with her. And that's why they got a divorce. What I did is I went to lunch with her and we'd sit in a car for half hour. At one time, Susan said to me that she knew how stupid the Sheriff's were not to have even searched the avocado grow. Where is the avocado grow? In Ruben Flores' yard, which slopes down the side of a hill, it wasn't searched. And this woman's recollection makes me think of another story I heard several months ago when Paul Flores' ex-girlfriend told me about the only time she visited a royal grande with him. I wouldn't be surprised if something was buried in its dad's house. His dad has like acres of avocado trees. And I even remember saying, oh my gosh, there's avocado trees that swap around. And they're like, now, now, now come inside, come inside. And I just always thought, like, after knowing everything, why didn't they look at the dad's house? That's a question that a lot of people have asked. Brenda Gillin, the journalist who is present for the 2007 search of Susan Flores' backyard, wondered that, too. She could have been placed in Ruben Flores' yard. I don't know if he still lives in the same place or anything. I don't know his situation, but we drove by it. And that was quite large and wooded. There are a lot of bushes. And it just seemed like that could be a place. Larry Connier's, the ground penetrating radar operator, thought the same thing. Now, we did drive by the father's house. And at the time, you've probably been by that house. And it's kind of, as I recall, sitting on a slope of a hill. And it is just overgrown with brambles. And there's oak trees. And there's all kinds of stuff. And it was about a two or three acre piece of property, as I recall. I said, I'd be glad to do this. But we're talking-- this is a two-week data collection kind of a process. This isn't just go up there and wave your magic wand around and figure out what's there. And I said, and before that's going to happen, we're going to have to come in here with a mower. And we're going to have to mow all the grass down and get rid of all the weeds and the brambles and the probably poised oak and who knows what's else was growing in there. And by the time I got done telling them what really needed to be done on the father's property, they were just like any old police department at that point. And I wasn't dealing with police department. But they acted as police say, oh, that's too much work for us or something. Anyway, nothing ever happened. That glazed overlook in the eyes of people who were officially in charge of finding Kristen is a recurring theme that I've heard from anyone who offered their assistance. The expense of these searches seems to turn them off immediately to the idea, even though members of the community have regularly attempted to donate to the cause or volunteer their time or equipment at no charge. But citizens who offer their help often don't even get a call back. I call the Sheriff's Department and left a message with no return call or contact. I've heard this grievance from a lot of people now, reporting information to the Sheriff's Department that was never followed up on. From my standpoint, an outside observer trying to understand this story without having access to all of the undisclosable files on this case, it doesn't seem like searching locations for Kristen's body is a high priority. From Susan's backyard never being cleared to Rubensyard never even being searched, to shoes being left untouched for years right out in the open and rural creek beds. It seems like the Sheriff's Department is more focused on building their case against the suspect, even if it takes 23 years to do, rather than spending a day or two digging. But it turns out that's not entirely true. In 2011, San Luis Obispo Alex Ian Parkinson as its new sheriff. If you were making a film about a new law enforcer who was coming to a small town to save the day, you'd probably cast Parkinson. He's young and handsome, with a strong jaw, perpetual stubble, and a well-tailored uniform that he never seems to take off. During his first month in office, he proclaims his commitment to resolving the Kristen's smart case and sets up a meeting with the smart family. They're thrilled to have a sheriff who will communicate with them, after two administrations who basically left them in the dark about new developments. It looks like things are gonna be different with Parkinson. But then, his entire first term goes by, with no break in the case. He's elected to a second term, which begins on January 5th, 2015. Finally, the following year, after they've had time to go over the files and all of the evidence is weighed, Sheriff's launch a full-scale excavation of the Cal Poly Hill site. Now to a possible break in a 20-year mystery out of San Luis Obispo. The San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Department and the FBI have begun excavating a remote site below Cal Poly's iconic P-Sign on the hill overlooking the campus. We're hoping that we find something and we're committed, not stopping until we're able to bring this to a closure. The family understands that. I have mentioned that is our hope and desire that this leads to some of the answers that we've been asking for the past 20 years is what happened to Kristen. It's a move that perplexes the community, the university, and even the smart family. But they remain in stands words, cautiously optimistic. With all of the undisclosed files the sheriff maintains, there's the distinct possibility that they know something the public doesn't. Maybe Kristen's smart has been buried underneath the pee this whole time. The pee is literally a giant letter pee for Polly, constructed in concrete on a hillside that overlooks the red brick dorm buildings. It's a short hike from the last spot Kristen was seen, but it seems like an unlikely place to carry a body in the middle of the night, and it's an area that was searched in the first month of Kristen's disappearance. But at least someone is looking. Since 1996, the smart family's relationship with Cal Poly hasn't been great. They were never contacted by either of the two successive Cal Poly presidents, ever, until September 2017. At one point, administrators offered to put a Kristen's smart memorial bench on campus, in exchange for signing a contract that said Cal Poly was not at fault for what happened to her. And, they reserved the right to remove the memorial bench whenever they wanted, without notice. The smarts declined. Years ago, on a trip to San Luis Obispo, Denise smart stopped into the Cal Poly registrar's office, and requested a copy of Kristen's freshman transcripts. To her surprise, Kristen was failed in every class she took, because she missed her finals. It's a sad legacy for Kristen's smart, and an oversight that's never been corrected, or even addressed. On September 6, 2016, Sheriff Parkinson holds a press conference in a Cal Poly parking lot. He's not alone. In addition to Sheriff's investigators, he's flown in 25 FBI agents from Virginia to assist in the search. So, good afternoon, I'm Sheriff Ian Parkinson, for those who don't know, and joining me today are Special Agent and Charge. Excuse me, Sean Reagan here, to my immediate left. Next to Agent Charge, Reagan is president of Cal Poly course, Chef Armstrong, and our DA Dan Dow. So this Sheriff's office has been investigating the Kristen Smart case for over 20 years, as you know. And today, that investigation has led us back here, where it first began, the campus of Cal Poly, and that is a place where Kristen was last seen alive, as many of you know. Today in conjunction with the FBI, we're announcing the excavation project of this location. And due to its high visibility, we really decided that it was best just to go ahead and disclose why we're here, rather than you kind of figure it out and then us answer the questions after the fact. We have developed this lead over the past couple years, and have been working on it. This lead was determined or developed after a comprehensive review of the entire case. And as many of you don't know, with this case going on 20 years, the case is quite large in size. So it took a while for the current investigator to get up to speed. That lead led us to this location, Cal Poly. We brought in, especially, human remains, detection dogs brought in from the FBI out of their headquarters in Virginia, using their protocols with their search dogs. And we brought them in this past January. Several areas of interest were identified up on this hillside. We're not sure where this is going to take us. Obviously, we want to be optimistic as possible. And we hope that this leads us to either Kristen or evidence of Kristen. And we'll continue to focus our efforts on other investigative leads as well that we've been continuing to work. For those who don't know, we have over the past several years, we have increasingly added more resources to this case. One, because we think that we can bring it to a conclusion. But two, out of interest in closing out any unsolved case that we have, we have essentially had a full-time investigator on this case. Deputy or correction DA Dow has assigned a deputy DA to the case. I must stress one important thing that we must manage our expectations. So when we make an announcement like this that we're doing something, because of the high visibility, we felt the need to do this. I probably do not have in-depth answers for you right now because it's an active investigation, but I'll certainly give my best effort to answer anything that you have. The excavation makes national news and takes four days to complete the following week. The San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Office has confirmed that some kind of remains have been found in their search for Kristen Smart's body, but they have not said whether they're from an animal or a human. The sheriff's office is stressing that the remains that were found on this hillside behind me still need to be analyzed, and that it's not confirmed that these remains are related to this case. Slow Sheriff's Department spokesperson Tony Capola says the remains will take weeks or even months for an anthropologist to analyze, and officials will not release any further information until then. Four days later, on September 16, Paul Flores gets his seventh DUI in her most of beach. So maybe they've got him nervous. Maybe it's this part of the press conference, which has never been elaborated on. So we're also focused on other locations, however, we're not disclosing those locations at this time because of investigative reasons. Where are those other locations? And where the remains animal or human? Three full years have passed since the excavation, and this is the last official word from September 2017. San Luis Biscoe Sheriff's Office released this statement regarding the investigation. It reads in part, this investigation remains active, but there are no further updates at this time. We continue to communicate with the Smart Family and inform them of developments which we hopefully lead to a successful resolution in this case. So now we're back to waiting. Some people trust Parkinson on this, like Dennis Mann. I think she's on the hill because trust me on this one, he in Parkinson doesn't care what I think about him and he doesn't care what you think about him. However, he really does care what his peers think about it. And in 2016, he flew in 25 FBI agents from around the nation into San Luis and went on national TV. So he's putting his personal reputation among his peers on the line. And there's no way he would have done that unless he had great information. He didn't do that on a whim. He had some powerful, powerful information to say that Christens up on that hill. Other people think it was a sham. And some of them have been more outspoken about it than others. He comes into this job and I think this whole thing has been screwed up from day one and he has to piece it all together. Well, that's not an easy job, but does it take five years? I don't know. All I know is you wouldn't go digging great big holes at Cal Poly until you cleared the back yard first. Next time. We've been listening to your own backyard, Episode 5, The P. Your own backyard is written, produced and hosted by Chris Lambert. Associate producer is Alexandra Wallace. Special thanks to Dennis Mann, Peter King, Nicholas Winnery, Candace Vanderplace, Derek Payne, Jamie Lewis, Garenson Claire, Sandy Arnold, April Cole Worley, Carrie Quimby-Zennich, Alyssa Brigham, Kaelin Pope, Sydney Brant, Olivia DiGenero, Dallas Branson, Javana Sarnacola, and Matthew Frank. If you feel that you have information that could help long-forcement with their investigation, you can directly contact San Luis Obispo Sheriff's Detectives at 805-781-4500. Want to reach out to us directly? Send an email to your own backyard podcast at gmail.com or visit our website at yourownvacyardbodcast.com. To keep up with new episodes, subscribe to your own backyard on Apple podcasts and follow us on Facebook or Instagram. Original music is by Chris Lambert. Want to help keep Kristen's memory alive? You can donate to the Kristen Smart Scholarship at christensmart.org. A statute of limitations in this case has expired on everything except murder. Anyone who comes forward with information will not be charged with any crime.