Episode 040 - Pride Month 2023

Hello everybody and welcome back to a brand new episode of the very meds Royce Podcast. I am your host, Himmagedradhan. It's probably month this month and so we are doing special episode with two of our colleagues just to kind of share their experiences throughout their sort of professional careers. So please join me in welcoming podcast, Aelish. Aelish, hello and welcome to the podcast. Hello. And Tom. Tom, hello and welcome to the podcast. Hello. So Tom, we're start off with you. I hope you don't mind me saying but you've been working this quite longer than I have. So I wouldn't quite like to hear your sort of experiences and how I actually used to sort of changed throughout your career. Yeah, I mean, I didn't come out until I was 26 so I don't come out until I had a part now, my boyfriend. So I didn't really see the need, well, I didn't want to rock the boat and I was a little bit scared, you know, it's trappitation coming out. You think it's a big thing at the time and some people hear stories that it is a big time and their parents don't accept them and stuff. So yeah, I suppose by the time I was working after uni, I was just kind of getting to grips with my sexuality and then came out when I was 26 when I met Raffa. And then I suppose like coming out in work every time, like when you change jobs or when you get promoted and you go to different department or something like that. And I feel like over time I've got more confidence to be able to say from day one, oh yeah, my partner or yes, my, you know, my boyfriend. I don't feel like I have to kind of take my time to come out. Whereas in 2015, that was a little bit different. I did feel like I had to take a little bit of time to kind of re- to trust people and realise when was the right time to kind of tell people in a professional environment. But in terms of being in the community and how we approach things in work, like there's, you know, a massive focus on diversity inclusion now across businesses that wasn't there when my first started. But I haven't always worked in HR in my professional corporate career. I've seen how managers and people from other departments have started to embrace it. And before maybe it was just HR, we're now trying to ban the drama or quality. Now it's much more seen as a kind of corporate object of the embed through everything, whether it's, you know, working with Stonewall or whether it's working with the social ability commission or whether it's setting up ERGs, it's very much more in leadership's focus now than 10, 15 years ago when it was more just HR banning the drama. Yeah, it's quite interesting to say it was only as soon as 2015 that you still felt slightly uncomfortable because that's quite recent. A lot has changed in the last few years and even sort of socially, like in media and people just more aware that there's certain things you can and can't say, like, for example, when I was a kid growing up, it was very common to be like, oh, that's gay, that's gay. And you just say that. But now, like, people are aware, especially kids are aware and teenagers are aware that you can't just say things like this. And it's sort of breaking these habits and just being more aware that your words have impact even though you don't necessarily mean it in a harmful malicious way. But make people feel just awkward about these sort of things. So I think we've come a long way and there's probably lots of ways we can still get better and just make people think about these. Yeah. But like, I'm thought, you know, I don't mind saying it. And I'm not like now, people in the mid 20s, and they say, you know, I'm part of the queer community or like, you know, they talk about queer as a positive word. And I still struggle with that because I was called a queer as an insult. And I don't know, like, if I'm, and like also like not treating that whole LGBTQ, I community is a homogeneous blob. Like we have our opinions within it. Like just like, I might like gracious and someone might like blue shirts and whatever. We have a different opinions about what it means to be in the community as well. And I think that's important to have diversity within within the community because like, I'm still not comfortable with being called queer, for example. But you're right, people use to be like, oh, so gay. But I'm not really bothered about that. It's like, you know, it's fine. But I had quite a lucky childer than the sense that I had two brothers and a mum and dad and two nans and cousins and everyone accepted me for who I was. And I can only imagine like, if that wasn't the case, and people didn't accept you and you had to leave home. Or if there was other protect characteristics where clashed with your identity or sexuality that could have been, you know, really difficult. Fewer person. So I suppose I'm lucky. In a lot of ways really. I always like to celebrate Pride Month to think about all the people that have gone before us, that have kind of fought for LGBTQ. I write also to clear some of those stories from people that haven't had it easy and how the community's been there for them and how the Pride movement has helped. So that's one I really, it's a really graphite in time and humbling sometimes. Yeah. And I think it's quite interesting thing that you say that sometimes members of that group just get painted in one blob. But like you mentioned, everybody has their own personal experiences and each issue, be case by case basis, basically. Like what you say to one friend you can't say to a friend, just because of various things that have happened in their lives. So it's really interesting. And like this is one reason we did the sort of podcast. They're kind of like little things like this, but you don't. If you're not part of the community, you might not think about like in my nor appreciate and just be slightly ignorant of which. And I can admit that I am a lot of certain things absolutely. But well, thank you very much for sharing. Alish, how about yourself? How have all the experiences for you sort of like from university first job and now have things changing for you and your perspective? And I only really have started to openly say that I'm gay in the past year or so. I'm more comfortable like not to people that I know or friends, but like colleagues and stuff. And I in my previous roles, I always thought kind of like I couldn't really come out. I think people assume that I'm straight because of the way that I look and how I don't fit into a stereotype. So people have just assumed anyway. So I instead of trying to correct them because I couldn't. I don't feel like I was confident enough to correct people. I just kind of went along with it. And so like people would always ask like they just say like have you got a boyfriend. And then I'd say no instead of being like no, but I have a girlfriend because I just wasn't comfortable with it. And I think when somebody automatically assumes that I'm straight, I feel like I'm scared that they already have a opinion about that because why would they automatically assume that but then I understand. And then I remember when I first joined Vermed and I had a girlfriend at the time. And this is a year ago now and we were going to walk and you were one of the first people that has ever asked me if I had a partner. And it was the first time I ever felt very comfortable saying yeah, I've got a girlfriend and you just kind of asked about her and we chatted about it. And that was probably one of the first times yeah that anyone's ever asked me that and immediately I felt like I could just be open in Vermed because of the way that you phrase that question and the way that I knew that there would be no prejudgment or anything like that. So it's kind of with yeah, like you say like if you're not in the community, you don't pick up on the small things, but even stuff like that really it matters like the way that people use language and don't just ask. Like even just the tiniest thing of asking if somebody has just a boyfriend is just it can make a massive difference really if someone says partner because then you think are they open to asking me, which means that they must be okay with it and accepting it. And the forward thinking in one of that so yeah, that's the biggest thing and then that now I'm really open at Vermed, which I've never really been before and it just makes you feel a lot more comfortable than yourself outside of work as well. So it's a nice experience. Yeah, so the story you just told with me, I think you had a partner or not and that is something that probably two years ago, I probably wouldn't have asked it that way just because I wasn't really aware. But in that time, I moved into a new house share and I had two of my housemates were part of the community and just speaking to them and that kind of stuff, I just became more aware of like certain languages and stuff of that. Like I would have said, do you have a boyfriend just out of like just a habit. I would say, but it wouldn't mean, and I think other people can say the same, it doesn't mean I have a pre-judgment on it. Like I said, it's something that people need to be aware of, like language and things like that. But for me, asking you, to me, that was just normal question, but in fact, it meant more to you than it did to me, I've heard that way. And I think people don't really realise how impactful certain phrases and certain words are. It meant more to A-list and U, because she's been living, you know, thoughts that she's not like 80% of her friends, and you're, you know, respectful and kind, tolerant person, and you just asked it like it was normal question, but, you know, that's quite an interesting point, but for A-list, it was like quite a similar moment, but for something that was for you, the mesh, not. Yeah. I think that was just the experience, like life experiences that you've obviously been for as well, Tom, like you never know what someone's reaction might be. And so it can be quite an intimidating thing, especially if you're to correct somebody by being like, no, it's not a boyfriend. Yeah, you know, I still get excited at now and again, if I kiss Louis in the street or if I hold hands or someone down the road or like, I don't even want to open the kind of worms between like, within the LGBTQI community, like, you might have drag queens that make jokes about jokes about lesbians, like, and, you know, like some of my straight friends are like, oh, what's this beef between gay men and lesbians? And like, there is nobody. It's just multi-faceted. Definitely. And I think a sort of media definitely has a huge role in that. If you're not part of the community and your education comes from TV shows, for example, just because the TV show said something in a funny way doesn't mean that's how everybody thinks. You know what I mean? There's more of a nuance set, I, or whatever, and like some people might take it the wrong way and just not quite fully understand like the joke, they might take a service level and it's actually like a deeper joke that if you're part of the community, you understood more. But yeah, so yeah, so Tom, you didn't mention that like as you kind of got older, you become more comfortable because you've been with Verimead, what, just over seven, eight months now? Seven, six and a half, seven, little adjunio. Yeah, no, the only reason I mentioned is because one of the first things you said when introducing yourself was that you recently got married with your husband and just like you're getting the house and everything like that. So obviously for you, Verimead was a also a safe space for you to say that on your first day on the all-starth meeting. How was that sort of experience? One of the main reasons I joined Verimead was because of the culture and I knew who I was coming into from having multiple discussions with Matt and Emma and the target company that we were and being my first real senior role. I just felt confident and comfortable to be able to say that and you do get more confident in a bit of the skin as you get older or more experienced and it is tougher when you're starting your career. I suppose because I'd literally got married two weeks before I started at Verimead, like I was still buzzing a bit. I don't know if I would have done that intro if I'd started now. Did in the honeymoon phase? Yeah, whereas no, we just doesn't know how to do it. But yeah, I think I still would have. You know what, I would have said I'm married to do, yeah, I would have, yeah. But I'm sure there are companies out there where people don't feel comfortable saying that. Still today, and I think I'm lucky to work for such a progressive company as Verimead. Yeah, because you even invited Louis to some afterwork drinks. So we've all had a chance to meet him. There's a few of our other colleagues with other partners that we've all met as well and I think that's one really funny thing about Verimead, everybody except everyone who they are and just I'm glad that you both feel the same way really. So one of the other things that I've noticed that just to make sure that we're more inclusive and things like this to other people sort of like pronouns and things like this is like we've been encouraged to put our pronouns in our email signatures. And Aelish, I think you have a quite amazing little story of how you accidentally had a slight typo in one of those. So it was only recent, I think it was only recent that I noticed that people were putting their pronouns in the email signatures and I was booking in an interview with somebody and they emailed me back very politely saying I'm not sure if this is correct but it caused a little bit of confusion because your pronouns say she/he so I just make you aware and it was because I accidentally missed the R off the end of she's left here but yeah he was very polite about it and I'm really glad that he did because nobody else told me for quite a while. You should have just replied back saying yeah I'm jealous Louis. I was told we've set up a little LGBTQI WhatsApp group at work. I think you're joined didn't you really? Yeah. And we were chatting in the air about how like I'm a 40 year old cis gay man and even five years ago I didn't know what cis was and now like that story is funny and it should just be funny like that I just feel like there's so much kind of walking on eggshells, there's so much hate on Twitter and online about kind of the trans-the-bay and stuff and I'm a little bit scared to get involved and give my opinion or know where and how to talk about stuff with people because I'm a little bit scared about saying the wrong thing. I don't know maybe the debates just moved on and on a bit old and I just got a hope that I don't offend anyone or like you know I need to educate myself because yeah I you know I work in HR one of my key passions is equality and it doesn't matter who you are away from who you're attracted to who what you identify as like if you've got the skills and experience there's a place for you a verimet and that's my my baseline but I suppose I would want to do a little bit more kind of education for myself and maybe other people at verimet but I love that story in it because it's funny and like we're pretty funny country and we love our humour and like I feel like more people just have a laugh like that it might might be a little bit less of a bit smaller place online to kind of exist. Yeah it is quite tricky to know and I think I definitely feel like I should educate myself more in the community because I feel like some things that I probably find funny and think that I can say I know because I've not had the same experiences like you said like we're not just one big bubble of the same people someone who also identifies as a gay woman could not find it funny just because of the experiences that they've been through so it is hard to get your wording right and to know kind of where the line is but then also you do have to look at the funny side of things and it like and then if people want to educate you more on it than they can. Speaking of the LGBTQ chat as well they're actually I think in verimet they're doing a the tea in the LGBT talk one lunch time as well to educate to inform us all on stuff which is quite nice that verimet are getting so into pride month I know we've got quite a few pride activities coming up so that's really nice that like everyone's getting stuck in and not just not just people that are in the community like so many different people are getting involved and no Annie's got a pride book club sorted and stuff like that so I think that's really nice that verimet's so into it I don't think I've been I don't know whether it's just in recent years but I don't know whether I've been in a company that's so forward and wanting to like make such a big deal about it but like you should make a big deal about it because it's really important and yeah it's really nice to see how many things are going on and how many people are getting involved to make a big deal about pride because you should yeah no I agree and like you mentioned Tom like so I'm a cis straight male and so I admit in the past I've been very ignorant of like words and things like that and just not really nice so like I've definitely made a conscious effort to sort of educate myself just by just talk to people members of the community and this kind of stuff and I think we can all learn more quite honestly like different generations and just like things change all the time and I think now different members and different parts of the community are becoming more vocal about certain things and making sure that they also are included and as everyone should be so yeah it's great to know that like very much are doing stuff to help people like us like learn I want to include everyone I don't like the way I see is like I don't care like what race gender sexuality anything you are like if you're a nice person you're a nice person and so I don't want to do anything to offend you accidentally or otherwise so like the more myself and other people know I think it just helps everyone just become better people inside work as well as outside of work because at the end of the day we all hear together and you just want to make it pleasant for everyone involved but you know what like Also, as you get older, like you've been, and I keep saying I'm getting older, it's saying, because you know, you're asking me to start a match up a bit more longer into my career than English is, so you know, you get used to being offended. And it's not illegal to offend someone, unlike if someone does offend me, if they don't do it on purpose, and it's just because they're the different upbringing, you know, they don't realise or like, they've just spoke, or like, I just feel like, look, don't worry about it. And I'll explain to them what kind of offended me, but I'd rather that than kind of cancel them and then them get worried or depressed, and then it affect them, like everyone makes mistakes, everyone's trying their best, and I just think if someone says something you don't particularly agree with, or it offends you or you find it inappropriate, just let them know, because they probably don't know they're doing it. Yeah, I think that's a very good point to be honest, I think sometimes they're giving the harshest punishment for something that was quite something that you wouldn't even think of, like, like we said earlier, like the fact that I mentioned partner, I don't really remember saying that, you know what I mean, the day they made more. So like, if I accidentally said something, I might not even realise I've said something, but it would offend you. So like, if it did, tell me, and I'll apologise and I'll be more mindful later on. So you can't just go to the absolute extreme, like you said. So yeah, I think awareness and education and everything is always in key, and it's just nice to see society changing and becoming more open and accepting, and just more understanding, just even in the last few years, and hopefully becomes more so in the next few years to come. Well, thank you both very much for joining me on the podcast this week, and talk so openly about your personal experiences and opinions on the whole thing, and I'm sure like I've learned a lot in this episode, and I'm sure other people listening have as well. So thank you both so much. Absolutely pleasure. My last little thing is my husband Louis started playing for Kings Cross Steelers rugby team. They're doing a dance in heaven to raise money for Kings Cross Steelers. Me and one of my straight mates going to watch the support in is Tony and I put a ticket and all money goes to Kings Cross Steelers and I'll be to QI charity show. My very straight, very boring, very good friend who lives in Surrey who has never been to a gay club is coming with me as an ally. So just shows how things are definitely changing. Excellent. Thanks a lot for mentioning that. No, that's fine. When is this? Next Friday, it's 23rd. Excellent. Well, thank you very much, and I hope you have fun. We'll be good luck. Excellent. And, Ely, thank you as well for again talking to openly about your experiences. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's been quite fun. It's been quite a nice race to end the day. Exactly. Thank you all very much for listening. If you'd like to be notified for any future episodes, please subscribe to us on Spotify iTunes or whichever podcast platform you're using. If you'd like to know more about Verimead, please visit our website at Verimead.co.uk or you can find us on LinkedIn. If you have any other questions about Verimead, please feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm always happy to help. You can also find us on YouTube and Instagram @WeAreVarimead. And until next time, goodbye.