Welcome to the Amps podcast. I'm Nina Hartstone and today we have a very special episode celebrating the sound of June Part 2. Joining us are Gareth John production sound mixer and Ron Bartlett re-recording mixer who played key roles in shaping the film's incredible Sonic World. From the deep rumbling presence of the sound worms to the immersive atmospheric sound of Erachis, their work has been recognised with the Amps Excellence in Future Film Award. Gareth Ron, welcome to the Amps podcast. Thanks and what? I know. Thank you very much for joining us and first of all congratulations on your Amps Award. How does it feel to have your work on June Part 2 recognised by your peers in the sound community? It feels amazing. It's it's price to get something like this from you know all your colleagues who you know know and appreciate sound and it means a lot coming from from your fellow technicians. Well put I mean it's a great honor because it's people that know what you're doing know what to listen for and maybe you just love being honored by them. It's such a nice thing to do. Well it's very well deserved. So in the film I just want to talk a little bit about creating the soundscape of Erachis. The desert is almost a character in itself. How did you approach designing the sound of Erachis? Well I mean I was just capturing the cast and anything that was happening on set in terms of design that was you know Richard and Ron and Doug and the post guys really. Yeah Richard King was our supervising senator and he came up with all the sounds and shot the fully did all the extra detail work involved. They went to great detail to go out for weeks in the sand and went out in sand dunes and recorded you know live fully and cut that as well. Buried mics in the sand you know shifted big chunks of sand doing down to get that kind of groaning sand underneath the sound that creates this great groan that you just can't get any other way. It's all this shifting elements in the sand the silicone and all that vibrating and makes these great groaning sounds. So we use that a lot for worms and also movement of people you know Timothy walking in the sand or is in there you know they're doing the sand walk especially that's a very detailed moment very quiet and still. So it's not always big loud bangs and you know sounds but it's a lot of tight intimate detail that goes into the production as well. Yeah incredible and so were there any sort of surprising discoveries or challenges in creating the sound of this world and capturing the sounds on set. I mean in terms of capturing it my job was made so easy from the way Dene shoots the film I mean the way he covers a scene is just a dream for the sound department. It's predominantly single camera everyone gets their own close up it's so considered he's all about the performance you get time it's just it's an amazing set to be on from a sound recording perspective just to capture the access performances in such a great environment. The challenges are made simpler just by the way Dene shoots I mean you could go in and you could see the scene and it's you know 15 people and it's a massive massive sequence and initially I think oh my god this is going to be you know this is really overwhelming and it just gets broken down and you get all the coverage and it's it's just a great way to work. Yeah and I think it's reflected in you know how the movie sounds because you know Dene puts so much emphasis on just nailing the performances and let's us to get our mic's writing you know everyone's got a digital microphone about it. You know three inches from the top of the head so so that sounds so nice and rich. Yeah and it's incredible and I think you know that there is something that just feels for creating an alien world definitely the work that you guys have done has has brought in a real sense of realism to it you know from everything from the performances to the sound design and the mix you know you very much feel like you're brought into that world and everything feels sort of it feels all it feels organic and real it doesn't feel like it's been heavily manipulated with plugins and that kind of thing imposed it feels like a very real environment and so Dene is known for his masterful use of silence how did you balance sound and quiet moments really height in the vision in his film. We love doing that by the way that's something that Doug and I strive for on almost every film is to get those really good dynamics in a track so it's not just big action loud all the time and you just kind of wear your audience out. We try to be an audience member while we're mixing and sit back there would I like to hear this for three hours no you know so you really need to bring things down and pull your audience into the track and not hamming them all the time. And Dene just shoots that way and he plans that way he has a real vision of where it's supposed to go we're just following his roadmap supporting what he's up to and it started that way on Blade Runner for us and now with both doon movies as well and so we have a real shorthand where we don't have to discuss that so much because we know where he's going and we know what he likes and that's a great thing to have. But all of the detail and the smaller sounds the very delicate things like when they're in a tent and they're talking in its dream sequences all that comes right down to us very still you know sounds and he wanted the desert to have that feel because when you're standing in there it is dead quiet it's not blustering sand and all this all the time is very still and he really wanted to have like little creatures you know zipping by and and very odd sounds because it's not the maha he desert it's on a rakis so he Richard had to come up with these you know extra sounds and and weird critters and things like that you know to give it a sense of a different world and what's great about Dene is he's always about the characters and this the story and this is really a love story if you break it down in the whole film and it's a cautionary tale of too much power basically you know and so it's combined with this love story so it's not all about big action although there is quite a lot of scenes with giant worms and big armies and whatnot but as a great contrast of that you know very intimate love story going on the same time so we tend to bring all the track down bring the music down ring you know take things out keep it very simple and very intimate so you hear all those details and you you brought into the story instead of pushing you back and the soundworms so looking at one of you know some of the really exciting sort of action moments of the film the soundworms are sort of such a massive presence you know where even before you see them just like under the surface and and it's masterful those moments where you know it's going to come and it hasn't arrived yet and how did you kind of go about shaping their sound and that journey of the soundworm coming in and you know that classic scene right in the San one through it's it's a it's a loud exciting scene but it also has a lot of shape to it. Doug and Richard did a masterful job like really sculpting that in dynamics and also in low end. A lot of people just put lots of things in the sub and call it good it's like yeah it's rumbling it's good they tuned the bottom end on every shot every scene of what it's doing is it a higher or deeper low end or so it was a real shaping of that bottom end that creates clarity and it also allows for perspective and you know a lot of dynamics. So when you see it first coming and you know there's the first worm sign you feel the low end but it's not like in your face but there's got a kind of chittery sound thing going on over the sand like she like that and then you see it blast in the distance we kept that quite low to in thinner to create that perspective because so far away but it's this massive creature in or there. As it comes in then you start getting different rumbles and different things and you start to hear more of the you know rocks and things like that because you can tell the speed it's coming and that was a real challenge to create this is bigger than a whale but it's moving it like a freeway speed. So it's like flying through the sand you know but underground so that's where a lot of the shifting sand it was recorded with buried mics and things those sounds the rocks the there's even jets and all kinds of stuff that Richard laid up in there to create these different elements depending on where you were in perspective as it comes out you and once it breaches and lands you know full impact on the sand it's like you know all outbreaks loose. That's you know the payoff is easy built up that anticipation it's easy to just give you everything all at once but to build that up and then give you the big ending that's the fun part I mean that's what you go to the cinema for is just something like that and the trade off with this music to sand. I mean it's out of fact of sand to the music was a very tricky moment there's a moment where you hear a little bit of score in there which most people don't know it's score is when he's falling and he's trying to catch on to the worm and there's a little piece of the music in there because I have this cool groany cello thing in there but it's it's buried within the chaos and then as it comes up and he gets a hole of the worm it turns into a very ethereal moment where stuff starts to fall away and Doug did this beautiful roll off of sounds and it gets very windy in a ethereal and the music comes in with the same thing and it gets more of the choir in the vocal arrangement and then when he stands up that moment we tried so many spots like is this perfect is it two frames earlier is a three frames later you know right when he stands up you get the big payoff of Hansen he brings it home from there. Amazing. I mean it definitely sounds like Denis is a bit of a dream to work with I mean could you talk a little bit about how Denis feels about sound in his films and how important it is to him in his storytelling. I think yeah he knows the power of sound and everything it brings to the movie he certainly knows the best way to help us capture the performances from the cast. It's just fantastic you know the way he goes about letting us do our job on set really really it really starts from capturing a good track. Yeah and when I get a good close mic rich dialogue track like like Harris brought us it's a godsend because I don't have that ball of noise to deal with with all the other sounds all the other tracks. I can layer in much more and be much more depth and perception as through the track without that ball of noise going on that you have to clean up and over process and it sounds terrible that you know we all end up dealing with too many times. So hats off to Garrett for delivering that and that's a great starting point that a lot of directors don't quite understand how important that is. And when you get that you have all the latitude to do what you want with it after. So Denis very aware of that and we've talked a lot about that which is one reason we hired this guy. Denis doesn't sort of force you on to radio mics with sort of wide shots being you know cover at the same time as some close ups as tends to happen on certain movies sometimes you know the schedule dictates that you've got to widen tight at the same time. But no Denis just Denis coverage is very respectful to the performance and you know everything that we need and that he needs and Greg phrase the DP needs as well you know. Yes and that there's no compromises everything is just perfect it's just a great way to work yeah just sound like understanding that capturing the actor's performances on the day. Yeah such a crucial part to delivering that story at the end you know and making sure that everything feels very authentic and the actors are able to give their best work on the day. When you get the boom over the top I mean that gets you the performance the radio might might get you the words in the script and the dialogue but the boom gets you every single breath every single and it just gets you everything you know it's so much more depth and clarity and single to noise obviously but it's just a beautiful thing really competitive radio mic. Well you can definitely sort of hear that in the in the finished track as well. Run how does it look with Denis in the mix like how how is the collaboration what's the sort of process there with the name in crafting the mix of the film. Well Doug and I know very well now and have done a few movies and understand his ideology is thinking in this process so we don't have to do a lot of discussion about it. It's more of a performance based situation where we put something together and it to show me things so Doug and I put the whole scene together he's there all the time watching listening and he's seeing where we're going and all that and of course if we stray off to one side of the other he'll stop and say can we do this and bring us into what he's after and he's quite attentive but he allows us room with Richard all of us to put something together present it see what you know what he thinks because he hired us for a reason he wants us to put our a game into it and see what we've got to bring because sometimes you know we'll give him something you didn't think of but we're following his vision his idea of the film the whole way and it's a matter of like what else can we bring you know can we show you something new or how about this and so we put the whole scene together and play it and then we all discuss with Joe Joe is a big part of the sound by the way Joe Walker or or film editor he he is so well versed in sound was a sound at our himself for a bit he's a composer is a very good classical composer so you can't get anybody he's awesome so he he really sets this up about choosing what takes is there in the meetings with Hans you know he's very involved so working with Joe putting that all together and then we present to Denis and say okay here's the scene where do you want to go anything bothering you you want something a little more about it and when you get the I deeply love that then you're good you just move on it's all good he said the funniest thing though he's so compassionate and very respectful of all of us I mean he makes us feel like a real family and it's a real team effort when we put this together it's not about me it's about the team putting this together and getting Denis what he needs and it's such a nice atmosphere and he's so respectful of it he didn't like a sound he was like you know that's a very wonderful sound effect that maybe not in this film it's like the worst you'll get you know it's so great what a nice man right I'm like what that's the worst you're going to tell us I mean Doug and I have such great respect for him as a person and a gentleman and then to be such a genius visionary well you name the adjective he's got it I mean it's I look forward to his films like no other I mean I'm so excited you know and now we're so excited to do you know Dune Messiah yeah it's not Dune 3 it's the second book so it's Dune Messiah we're very excited to do that yeah I'm sure and you know it's so wonderful to just hear about collaboration in the sound we're so often sort of siloed in on hilarious between editorial or sound or music and to hear everyone sort of working together with the director in service of their vision and the film I think is just such a beautiful opportunity on films that we don't seem to get often enough I think Right and he is so involved I can't stress that enough I mean some directors come in just for a playback and you don't see him and it's hard to get a vibe and all that he is not that guy he's in it from the beginning he's so passionate about filmmaking and very much about sound and it's such a nice refreshing thing because sometimes you work on a film like we all have and you know they're just not as into it and as I can we just get this done feeling and you're like kind of left like really but not this guy he is so into a very compassionate love film sound and it's a major champion for it so it's so refreshing to hear that right in you know in director as well because I think we're all part of the thing we're trying to do with amps is really elevate the craft of sound and where it sits in the different craft that put a film together because quite often where we feel like a bit of an afterthought I think people maybe don't think about sound until they hit the mix where everything's too late and all that all that sort of thought and working and so to hear about directors who are actually directing with sound in mind from the very beginning you know I did a temp I did three temp jobs on on Dune Part 2 at my house in my studio and it was me joe and dine and we just sat down and blasted through the film like very quickly it was in like three days I think it was insane amount of work to do but that's when I really you really understand what he's going for even though you're like you know slamming through stuff and trying to get it done very quickly but boy do you get the idea the shape the tone all of that from him and he's you know helping me the whole way like do this I want more of that and we're very involved and it's so personal you know it's not in a big studio with everybody you know hanging around your shoulders saying this isn't that it's him and joe and that's the team you know and you follow his vision of what he's up to and it just it's so nice I got to tell you I really look forward to it and by the way I love amps I watched your last podcast about all of the nominees and everything and it was just so nice hearing people in our community talking about things that we deal with all the time and hearing your guys's perspective and about the small details the quiet moments I heard I was like yes I just love that so I just had to say that because I'm a big fan now thank you well I mean it is one of the things we're trying to do is really sort of amplify and elevate the you know the craft of sound and because so much of the time what is recorded and set or what dialogue are doing it's you know if it's done well it becomes invisible in the final mix which is exactly what we want but of course like actually opening the door to people as to what we are doing and how we craft and create that contribution that makes to the final film and the storytelling I think is is really important I mean you've both had remarkable careers in the sound industry what advice would you give to someone who's just starting out either in sound design or mixing and wants to build a career in film what's that with you Garith? I think it's a good time to be getting into sound I mean there's a few people are talking about of AI and you know the upheaval from that sort of things but in terms of production you know everything that the streamers are bringing in terms of the amount of productions that happening I think it's a good time to be getting into it we need crew there's the good schemes you've got skill set schemes various training schemes I think anyone wanting to get into sound should apply to those training that makes us that are on amps keep hustling yeah just go for it that just work out there and we need good people and if you're passionate it will definitely happen yeah Ron how about you? I talked a lot of younger people coming up and I take them out to lunch and we always have this hour long talk of what to do how where they're at you know figure things out you know it's great to come on to a dub stage as a mix-tack or an assistant and just watch and listen and see the vibe see who's doing what and kind of understand the flow of things and understand the respect level of who's doing what and who's talking when and not because it's a there's a real decorum on a stage of when not to speak and you have to kind of understand that vibe and so that's important but if you can't do that I mean what you should be doing is is either go to the theater or get a good sound system in your home if you have to and close your eyes and listen to the track and because it will sound different when you shut your eyes and you think about what the sounds are the tones involved why is that placed here what are the levels like you know pick a good track that you like of the film and and really study it and find out what they were doing and why because there's a whole bunch of reasons why we make a thousand different choices on one little tiny bit and if you don't know that and you say oh that sounds easy because look it sounds great right you know as well as I do what it took to get there but it's like what did the fully sound like was there even fully in there or was it record on a set was it how are the backgrounds fitting what choices did they make you know like try to pick it apart and and do it by tones as well and not just by level and there's a lot of ways to make things fit together you know there's tonal there's there's spatial there's you know levels so it's always about those three like where is it in the space did you pan it over there is it in the center did you make a dollar does it brighter is it you know louder all these sorts of things you have to come into the choices to make a good track and to make them all fit and there's a clarity that you need to show up with like okay this is what I wanted to sound like in my head and then you go for it to figure out what to do yeah it's not about what plugins you just bought I am 100% with you that I think at the biggest part of my job is reverse engineering it's they're great tools yeah there's like a painter has lots of brushes and I have a rack of paints and yeah but what do you do with those right it's not about the tool learn those tools yeah and get them down you got to know pro tools you have to know a console all these things great but is merely the tools that you use but the ideas and why you're doing it is the main thing that I try to get across to younger people and understand why you're doing something yeah 100% the first step for me is always what do I want it to sound like exactly now what do I need to do to achieve that be the audience member and go what would make me go off that's cool yeah right and then you go from there yeah exactly that's so important yeah hugely important and is there a particular moment I mean it could be on this film or just at any point in your career that is you feel is really taught you a valuable lesson and how is it shaped your work beyond that oh godly it's valuable lessons every day when you go to see you think you've done it totally understand that one yeah something can come up and I suppose one lesson is preparation which is trying to be as prepared as you can try and anticipate what might crop up you know read the script read the cool sheet read the advanced schedule that's that sort of brought home to me every day really I still get caught out sometimes you know yeah that's a really it's just so important so valuable I know sort of even heading to an ADR session how crucial it is to just be prepared for every which way that you know it might go or you the actors might want to perform or the order you might want to go in and all of those things I think are just it's really crucial to be able to turn on a dime as things evolve during the day how about you run I say it's understanding the players you know like you said when you go in an ADR session same thing when I go into a mix as you've been in the mix you know your players who's the picture or what is he like what are his sensibilities watch and listen to the films that they've already done and know their sensibilities and really understand who you're working with and what they might want because you really need to check your ego at the door it is not your mix it is not your film it's theirs and you need to be supportive and respectful to what they're after and reach the goals that they want so it really at the end it's like like like erraton iar it's in a service industry like we're servicing the film and a director to get this story as good as possible yeah and every choice that we make is a story driven choice for if it's sound or picture whatever it is everyone should be going towards that it's it's great to get lost in the detail oh I cut this cool sound effect I don't like who cares did it make the story better or not you know that's it's really that choice so as far as lessons go it's like kind of like shut up and listen yeah you know like be quiet read the room figure out what's going on and go after that and see where it takes you because it will change your perspective a bit I mean I mean I would get lessons every day I mean what to do and what not to do I've been doing this a long time and it's like still - Still? (laughter) - Gerell, yeah. - What are the fun parts though? I mean, speak of that. Have you ever had any kind of person who mentored you in your career when you were starting out or you felt you really looked up to who you'd like to talk about? - I was mentored by some absolutely great people in the sound industry. Yeah, Chris Monroe, I did a picture with him. I did a couple of pictures with Ivan Sharik as sound maintenance, who's an absolute gentleman of sound genius. My father was a sound mixer, how I got into it. So I was kind of trained by him from a fairly early age to unload clean flight cases and all that sort of stuff. (laughter) - It's awesome. - So yeah, no, I've sort of grew up around sound really, but yeah, particularly Ivan and Chris Monroe, they taught me a lot. - Yeah, about you, Ron. - I started as an editor. - Oh wow, picture editor. - Oh, sound. - Oh, sound, yeah. - I went into mix. - Yeah, and then later after about six, seven years, I started to mix and did both. - Yeah. - And then went to mixing. So, I mean, there was some sound editors. I always looked up to and learned the craft from that, but I met Richard King and Doug in 1984. And we all worked together on various films throughout the years, but we kind of all came up together. And I actually looked up to Doug a lot. And I still do even though he's starting to retire. (laughter) Yeah, it's like don't retire. He's been my partner a long time, and we've been friends for even longer, like a long time. And so I always looked up to him for what he did. And I kind of followed in his steps in a way. And then to actually get to work with him and mix with him, I learned quite a lot from him. And there's other mixers as well that I respect a lot of Paul Massey, of course. And there's a lot of great mixers out there, but looking for people that mentor you, it's tough, because once you get in that league, it's very competitive, very cutthroat to get your next show and all that. And a lot of people, like Paul, for instance, we only got to work on one temp up together. And it was so much fun, because we've known each other a long time. But I never got to actually work with him, because we do the same thing. So I can't really use anyone as a mentor that way, because they're your competition anyway. So it's tough to actually get someone to talk about things and learn from, which is so important. And back in the day, we had a mix of training program through Tateo. And I mentored a few people through, and one of them won an Academy Award. And people are coming up through, I'm still doing it, even though they don't have that program. There's a few people that were mixed ex and record us, and I would have them sit next to me and teach them stuff along the way. And now they're all two or three of them are mixing doing quite well. And it's nice, because I like passing that on, and trying to do that for them. Well, it's fantastic to hear that you're giving back, as well, because I think it's such an important part of our industry, especially right at the moment, to try and bring the young generation through, you know, that seems like some of the opportunities for learning are being eroded, maybe with AI or budget wise, if there's not enough space for assistance on films and things. So it's really, really great to hear that you're continuing the mentor. Very quickly, favorite scene in June. Oh, Goli, there's so many. Can I pick a couple? Yeah, go ahead. I'm such a bit softy. I like the Timothy Zen Deacene, when they're on the San June, and it's just a dialogue and the Hantes score. He says, "We'll still go teach me to ride." And, you know, we shot over sort of four or five days of the sun was going down, and that was lovely. Beautiful. And I like the scene with Austin and Leia to do when they're walking through in the fireworks that going off, and the way Ron played the perspective, and when she goes off and says, "He says, where are you going?" She's like, "I'm just in my room." That's why I like this. Makes Charmer a moment of just like pulling him in. Fantastic. I love that scene as well. Fantastic. How about you, Ron? Favorite. Oh, God. There is a lot. I do love that scene because we got to play with such subtle perspectives with different reverbs and then tight in your ear and then back, and then, you know, she's delayed out. And it's very sneaky. A lot of really cool moves in there. They're very subtle. Of course, the bigger scene, the bigger, you know, fight scenes in the war. It's great. And it's super massively epic to pull that off. But some of the smaller scenes are great. You know, I'm more partial to the voice because I had a big hand in that. I was my department to pull off. And it was great on "Dune 2" as I did the whole design of the voice. And "Dune 1" was a collaboration of, you know, three or four of us and got a hold of it. And then "Dune 2" we kind of do something a little bit different with it. But in the film, as far as the film, I mean, there's some-- the fight scene in the stadium is awesome. You know, it's such a great look with all the infrared film. And it just, you know, the whole vibe is so great. Incredible. I love that. Gosh, you know, the worm right, obviously, is like the big-- Yeah. The moment, but, you know, we've been talking about that one so much. I think I don't even mention it now, but of course, that one. But, you know, there's so many great moments. And I love the subtle ones as well as garathering out of those really cool textures. So much to choose from. And once again, fantastic work on the film. Huge congratulations on your "Amp's Award," wishing you every success for the rest of "Award" season, as well. And thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedules to join us for the "Amp's Podcast." Thanks, Liam. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you. If you have an idea for a future podcast or just want to tell us what you want to hear more of, please get in touch. You can contact us on email at
[email protected] or via X, formerly Twitter, which is at "Amp's Podcast." We would love to hear from you and thanks for listening. If you enjoyed your related podcasts and want to hear more, then head to the audiopodcastaliance at audiopodcasts.org. Here you will find a "Ampic" selection of the very best podcasts all about sound.
PodcastTranscript AI