Ep18: Senior Softball Doubles final preview

Celebrating Chris Gavaghan's Elusive All-Ireland Medal Win Hello everybody and welcome to episode 17 of Between the Lines podcast. After a bit of a hiatus for various different reasons, we are back, which was a few days to go before the big IE double S final MO. You've been busy with work and changing jobs and whatnot, and Chris, you've been busy picking up medals. How was everybody doing? Speaker 2 All good, Steve O what's happening? Well done, Chris. Congratulations, gorgeous lad. Speaker 3 It's good to get one man, it's been a long time coming. I'm sure that 9 ones here to listen about Shane Herities heroics in carrying me to an All Ireland Championship at the weekend. Speaker 1 How many Shane Herod? He's back after this weekend. Speaker 3 He is the strongest shoulders imaginable lads. It's I was, it was, yeah, it's great. Look, I think like I've been playing for years. I I never won one for the club and it's always been one that I've wanted to get my name on the on the roll of honour. So to get one is yeah, it's awesome. So like a swim for dies a lot of all Iron titles, the 35 double S doesn't really rank with Martin Hennigan senior double S or Paddy Bolingbrook's senior double S or Pauline Gallery's senior senior double S or any of that. But listen, we're there, so. Speaker 2 They're complete. Speaker 1 You're the title of match, was it? Speaker 3 Yeah, the Westfield lads were brilliant, they hit the ball some, some wealth. So yeah, it was, yeah, they were very good. And like, like all Wexford lads, they, they were hard to put away. But, and, and I got to give a shout out to Peter, like Peter was in awful hard luck. We went and we were playing the tournament in Williamstown that we're we were making up the numbers for and he had, he got a horrendous injury and like we had just won the Connor Championship just a couple of days before and he's probably going to be out for the next six months to a year at least with an Achilles rupture. So got a big give a shout out to our Peter because he was unbelievable that day in the corner final as well. So yeah. Speaker 1 Absolutely. Get well soon to Peter from us. We're going to park that for now and we're going to kick on to the big IE double s to date. That's the one you want to run through the results so far and kind of where we are, what the Netherland is. Speaker 2 Yeah, I have the draw sheet open here, Steve. So the men's draw was decent. There was, there was a decent entry. There was round of 16 games. There was there were two boxes from cabinet that pulled out. But apart from that, OK, So the qualifying is on the quarterfinals was Gary McConnell and Brian Carroll against Chair Coonan and James Prentice. That's how how it was on the draw sheet. But obviously Gary and Brian pulled out of that game because I think Gary had an injury. The other quarterfinal then was Wicklow, Chris Doyle and Michael Greg and they had a good win against Chris Dylan and Desi Keegan and they played Mark Doyle and Joe Devereux and or Dev rocks as the pronouncing of X. But I'm saying inside an XI, don't even care if Joe says it's pronounced the X. It's it's devil, right? And the story. Speaker 3 They're from France originally, sure. Speaker 2 The Expert lads had beaten Shane Finnadoniku D from Cork so they won that one against Diane and Gregan. Then on the other side of the draw Kyle Jordan and Jack Holden beat Sean Kerr and Barry Devlin pretty convincingly over 2 games. David Watch and Growl Healy had an outstanding win against against Gavin Bogey and Mikey Barry. That was a fantastic win. 17 and 17. Jordan and Holden and Beat Car beat the Cork lads, Robbie McCarthy and Colin Jordan beat David Hope and Colin McNamee and then Kilkenny beat West me then in the semi final in a tiebreaker and on the other semi final, obviously Wax versus Doyle and Dev Rocks, they beat the tip lads. That was tiebreaker as well, wasn't? Speaker 3 It the Waxford lads beat Tipperary in two. Speaker 2 Sorry. Yeah, and then and. Speaker 3 Then kill Kenny. That that match was a Titanic battle, but yeah. And the men's draw. What the men's draw this year has really proved are really interesting, even if you're just looking the results coming in. Great to see young players in there and getting decided because that hasn't always been the way in in the softball. Why Big Alley Handball Needs Radical Change and Better Promotion You know usually the established older, older have for traditionally won out matches in singles and double s. You look all the way back to when Doxy or Tom or Walter, they kind of always kept the young play, young lads down back in the 90s and early 2000s. But this year especially in the double s and I know Robbie won the singles so that doesn't really hold true. But the two lads in Cormac and Mark that made the semi finals of the singles And then you see the two teams that go to the final, Mark Doyle and Joe Debrox and Kyle Jordan and Jack Holden. Again all young players come through and absolutely brilliant. Speaker 1 If you look at the the average ages for the double S finals last year versus this year, it tells a story in itself. The ages. The average age last year was 40 plus, whereas the average age this year is under 25. I think incredible turn around in the space of one year. Speaker 2 I have a theory on that though. Like we've been beaten ourselves. Speaker 1 Up another theory. Speaker 2 We've been beaten ourselves up and humble a wee bit about our champions getting older and the young that's coming through aren't aren't that great or anything. And yeah, that there was an element of that, definitely, and especially with Paul Brady winning the world's at the age of 45 or whatever. Speaker 3 But. Speaker 2 I think in every sport careers are no longer and we have to we do have the fact that it like look a messy in the World Cup 39 or whatever he is. Look at Paul Conroy playing midfield for go over there in the Championship and playing well at 37 years of age. We are seeing it across every sport. We're seeing it a lot more even in Premier League soccer as well. So I think with sports science and so on, careers are getting longer in sport. So we had the factor that in as well. It's not just because the pipeline stopped in Humble and now are like we haven't produced a good player in the last 15 years, which which would have been a bit of a school of thought out there. I think in fairness, it was a combination of both. But it seems there's been a correction now. And this is the most with respect to all the teams that went before, like Dublin and Mead was a cracking game, but it was a movie that we saw a few times and by the time it was the tour of Fort watching like any other film, it loses its punch. But this is a this is a crack and final. This really is a crack and find for young players, 2 pairs that have won the intermediate in the last three years. So shows the standard intermediate has been pretty hot and this year's intermediate winners, they were crowned last again. Paddy Murphy and I had Joyce. They might have something to say in the senior double S in the next year or two as well. Amazingly, I like and I don't ask me how this has happened because I think big Ally bottomed out a couple years ago when a minor singles final wasn't even played. But how have we reached the point now? Her the Big Alley is more watchable and more entertaining and a healthier championship overall than the Small Alley. Speaker 3 Well, Steve, you add to that stone. Speaker 1 Stone silence. I know what you're going to want, what you want the answer to be more. And it is not to do with timeouts and it's not to do with mopping the floor and changing gloves. What I think, you know, there is an element of the game itself is a much more. Is it a more natural game? Is it more fluid? Is it easier to engage yourself in? And, and I do think a massive part of it is the, the bit of the bit of venom, the bit of spice that was there this year that drew a crowd. And there was a few standout results this year. Again, that really kind of brought the game back into the the the public sphere and got people engaged in it that we haven't seen for a long time. Like it has been look, I know Robbie won again this year and you know, he's taken acclaim there for probably the greatest player of all time. But you know, the the the younger ones coming in and challenging. I think that has definitely brought something new to it. You've got Cormac Fan, who is just pure excitement, and you've got Mark Doyle, who is totally an orderly unorthodox, and then you've got Kyle Jordan, who on his day you can beat any of them. So yeah, I think we have gotten to a place where it's more watchable. It's definitely Jesus Christ, it's so much more watchable than the small alley at the moment. Speaker 3 Do you think that there's an element of that? Deep Dive into the Men's Finalists and Semi-Final Drama The traditionalists and the 60 by 30 massive, they are raving against GA handball a little bit like even in at the world Games and we'll talk about that at the end or whatever. But like there is a lot of promotion around the world games all week down to yourselves and going out and doing interviews and and promotional videos and all that type of stuff, which is great. That's good for the game. But like softball, handball has not been getting that from GA handball. Let's have it right. This is traditionalist handball heaven, right? And then you've got two of the biggest softball counties in the country being being represented in an All Ireland final. This is the first time we've seen this in years. They have put out, you know, the overage semi finals and finals and stuff like that. But there's been nothing about this game since M semi finals. That's not good enough. Speaker 1 And I think, Tucker, we, I know you use that word all the time in our Shimo, is there an element of inertia with handball that we are just so over ridden with competitions that it loses even if you do promote events, it kind of loses its punch because it's followed by yet another massive event, yet another, yet another, yet another So. Speaker 3 The World Games isn't a massive event, Steve. That is not a massive event. Senior double S final is a massive event. That is only a handful of them a year. Senior singles 40 by 20 and double s 40 by 60 by 30. Singles and double S finals and the one wall and senior under the one wall Nationals. That's it. Nothing else gets caused. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a tricky one. I'm not going to sit here and throw and throw shed and anyone. I need the staff or any volunteers involved in the sport because I think I think everyone is doing their best. But I do think that we have a new PRO there, Sinead Ryan, and she's just finding her feet. Like she's really, she's really, really, really capable lady. And like she's a producer with RNA and she's got a lot of contacts. Sinead will get will get stuff done with handball. Previewing the Ladies Final and Encouraging More Participation She's got humble and into places that we might have been before. So I just I think it's going to take time. But I agree that is it is a bit disappointing coming into a senior final. But I do think that that's again go back to the toilet. We talked about in the pot a few weeks back like we're having a tournament in Virginia now on the August bank call that we might do a part the week before that preview on it. To the best of my knowledge, that's the only tournament, weekend tournament there is in 6th authority this year that hasn't been organized by GA Hambler. So I mean, it is it a bit rich to sit here and go, oh, there's no video on Facebook? Charity starts at home as well, like so. But I can definitely understand your point, Chris, like, and and it is valid as well. But look, we shouldn't be we're here now. We're doing a pod. We're here to talk about the game. We can't sit there and talk about people not talking about it. Speaker 3 I I'm, I'm not, I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying that I and I'm not discounting the fact that they are doing a lot of work with very few hands and these volunteer base and I'm in, I'm in all those circles myself. And but like if you look at the build up to the Herdland football all week last two weeks, it's flooded with videos. That's what builds and people spend most of their time on their phones. And we have to get with the program that we have to find a way of diving into that side of things. We've got, we've got mountains of videos that were not using and we've got hours of video that's not effectively used. And maybe that's just something that we need to look at. And again, I'm not trying to call anyone out here, but like. Speaker 1 I'd I'd love to have answers for all of that. Speaker 3 But I know. Speaker 1 There is definitely a shake up is coming and a shake up is needed and unfortunately it's too it's too late for this year's big ally where we if you if you look at the way these things are run ordinarily and when it's done really, really well, there's a lead in time where where the media get ready for it. They have their few. I know well when you were working with the world game. So if you had articles from players from all over Europe, coming in weeks before the event builds a bit of momentum into it, and then the work during the week itself almost does itself. Speaker 2 Just about one comment on that, I would say I don't want to turn every, this has become like instead of between the lines, this is going to be that. Let's give out of it all the grades again. But I do think that that to make a radical change, you must change radically. And we need a radical change. We're on their own path as a sport and that's nobody's fault. But that's that's there's been a drift and we're on their own path as a sport and we have cheapened our own sport and that is the problem. That is the problem. In one sentence we have cheapened our own sport. We cheapen our medals and cheapen our occasions and until we take ourselves seriously, no one else going to take us seriously. Speaker 3 And I wholeheartedly agree. And and this as said, I just want I would like to see things improve and I want to be a part of something that improves. I don't and I this isn't me pointing fingers, but this is I would be. I wouldn't want to lie to myself or anyone that's listened to this and say that the the way that we've gone about this double S championship is right because there's something clearly wrong. But like going back to the game like that semi final between Jack and Kyle and Column and Robbie has to be taught about because there was, it was and we were there, Steve, it was spicy. That first game was very easy. It was. Speaker 1 I was, I said as a Jack Holden afterwards I said what position do you play in? In hurling This is you're like a dirty cornerback. And then he wasn't covering but he also wasn't getting fazed by it. Like, I don't think it's a big stretch to say the column was covering the ball a fair bit and in double S That's your job. Very really keen ask. That's your job, do it. But Jack Holden was just calm, was personified, wasn't he? Just it didn't faze him at all. Speaker 3 All he called him the Iceman the last day and that is exactly what he was. He was ice cool, not faith. He was an unbelievable. Speaker 2 I've always thought that about about hold and like I played against them before and it's unbelievable. Like there was no change in his body language. It was 002020. He's just it's just his personality. And you could see in the interview after with you, Chris, or you were like, I think, I think Kyle said, well, look, Jack was able to kill the ball around the corner and you said something with that to Jack and he goes, well, if you don't go for it, you know, you don't get it. A man a few words, Amanda, you'd have to. He's so likable because he there's no bullshit with him. Speaker 3 Sorry to God I was more hyped up about that interview 10 with the boys then then then either the lads or they were so cool after that battle and and in Ferris. It meant a lot to them. But most importantly, are you paying the fines for for Kylie? Speaker 2 Hard from kissing for wearing a kill shot jersey. Yeah, is. Speaker 3 He. Speaker 1 Paying a point. He's after sending five more fucking jerseys. Our Final Predictions, World Games Excitement, and Episode Wrap-up Michael Jordan Kyle Kyle Killshot Jordan, so he's. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, look, I think it's it's it is a very, very exciting final and it's the fact that you've got 4 cool customers in there like a four time. The players like like let's look at the lads and we haven't even looked at the ladies. Finally I put and we've only got 10 minutes left, but let's look at the lads that are playing in the final. Kyle Jordan, I mean a list open Comer, they were all looking at Kyle Jordans saying he's ticked all the boxes to this stage in his career and he looks like an airline future senior champion on and you know, if he stays fair and says it doesn't emigrate or anything like that, maybe he'd be a multiple senior champion. Jack Holden, cool as the calm and he's actually a forward. He won an intermediate football Ireland, I think with Thomas Town and he was one of the main forwards on that in the heart And Joe that Joe Devereaux, like he's he's a cool dude as I like. He's a pretty laid back type of fella and doesn't get too worked up in America is unique. Like I, I think the four most unique places in Ireland there at the four corners of Ireland and that's accent and their whole demeanor and that's Donegal and some and particularly Belfast, Wexford and West Kerry. I think they're out there those people literally. And like Mark, Mark is a really, really nice lad. Like he's a very there was voice of a distinct accent and have a distinct powder and the way to carry on. So like again, like from from a journalist point of view, you're looking like on so much caller, so much interest in angles are like this is this is a clash of color horse. And then the ladies, there is that interest in Angle as well, because Martina obviously has had the big alley in a stranglehold for the last couple years. She she brought up Ashley and Shannon who stepped up from junior and between them, they were good enough to win a senior double S last year. I know you Fiona totally going into the senior double S, which is definitely to be welcomed to get the top 4 to 20 players. And hopefully the men will follow suit. And some of the top men that don't play a big ally might start to play it. But to get Fiona in there as well, it's absolutely fantastic. And then along with Alana Cochran, who's an upper common player as well, who played in the junior final in her own right. I think the ladies game has potential. Like you're looking at it going, it's going to be it's going to be Fiona against Martina. They're the two star players in the court with respect to the other two players. And then you've got the other two players who are who have the whole air end up to and who will be targeted by the opposition. So there's a lot of interesting angles in that. Ladies Final 2 was the disappointing thing that was that was only three entries. That's very disappointing. Speaker 1 I, I've been chatting a few people about that like 3 entries. Jesus. If it was any other over 453 grades, it wouldn't actually be allowed to be a championship. It's only because it's senior. It's allowed to be a championship. And I think what do you do, you know, how do we encourage more big alley, more women who play Big alley to enter? You know, they're, you know, Molly Dag, senior finalist doesn't have a double S partner for us, so she doesn't enter. I know she could play with somebody from Lansdale. Is the argument there for that? I don't know. Speaker 2 I don't like that. Speaker 1 I don't like it either, but it's how do we encourage more women into playing the big idea? And I think part of the problem is they're going in playing against Martina, who's just going to beat the shot out in one way or the other. Speaker 3 Yeah, that's that's not good enough. Speaker 2 I don't fully agree with that. I think it's always it always seems impossible to someone goes and does it in sport. Like there's like Mayo could do it. Look, Chris, I am really rooting for Mayo. It's on and they could do it. Who knows, maybe didn't surprise us and the surprise that the pundits and get it done. Even Daryl Shea, writing in the Irish Times today was basically saying like. Speaker 3 Unbelievable. What, what, what motivation that's going to be up on the wall. Speaker 2 Yeah, so like, you know, you look at Martina goes, she's 9 on unbeatable, the big alley, but nobody's unbeatable. And that's that's the beauty of sport. That's why we run off our competition. So who knows what can happen on a given day. But yeah, how how are we going to entice more ladies to play the big? I don't know. I think we need to entice more people in general. The big alley, not just not just the female, there's. Speaker 3 Yeah. I I think that I think that the way that they there is an offset and we've talked about this before about the way the Clore is set up to have a dominated by Ford by 20. Then when you saw the likes of Paul Brady take it a couple of months break because he was going over to America and all this, he didn't play the 6 by 30. It kind of there's almost a trickle down from that that you see players emulating their idols by going, no, I'll only play for the by 20 and the six by they haven't feel 100 come in and play the 6 by 30 is super important. Siana did it last year and I was saying it to them every, every time they played after interviews, I said go for the 60 by 30 title as well. Win it out, win all the titles. They're short careers at that top senior level Like they they might, you might have players that go into their 40s, but the ones that really compete at the top of the 40 by 20, there's only a certain amount of years that they might be competing for. And something that happened to Peter Cassidy two weeks ago and you're out for a year, you know, so if you get an opportunity to play and win titles, this is an opportunity for Sienna or Fiona or whatever to get more Celtic crosses. And isn't that what we're all here for? Yeah, I. Speaker 1 Agree with you, but I would I would just throw a little warning in that for next year we could have a very, very weak women's tournament, even weaker than this year because I can't see Fiona. Isn't that an opportunity? Speaker 3 As well. Oh, absolutely. Speaker 1 But what I'm saying is I can't see anybody who's taken the World Series next year, 40 to 20 worlds. I can't see any of them who are taken seriously taking time out play the big ally. I I don't agree with it, I guarantee. Speaker 3 I guarantee and Martina will win. I win the 60 by 30. I should go go hell for leather to win the world's as well. And would you would you go against her? What would Katrina Casey. Katrina Casey will win the both. Same with Martina. That's what champions do. They win. No, no. Either way, you know what? Speaker 1 You've said everything that that one sentence. That's what champions do They win. No more needs to be said on it. Speaker 3 You've given nailed it. You've nailed it. You've. Speaker 1 Nailed it. You've been. Speaker 2 Looking in the mirror every day this week, polishing his metal going that's a champions there. I thought when I saw the result come again. I actually channeled you your your famous expression that when someone hits an absolutely spectacular shot on the commentary, which is Oh my God, Oh my God. Speaker 3 There you go. You're jumping around the room. No one could believe it. Speaker 1 We're trying to over the structure in the last minute or two here, so call the man's final first lads. Are we going Lex or are we going to Kenny? Speaker 3 I think, I think Kyle and Jack will win into that's boss. I think it's going to be razor close. I think one of them probably the second game is going to be razor close. Mark, Mark and Joe of course could win. But I've just got feeling that Kyle and Jack are a little bit ahead of them with winning the intermediate 2 years 233 years ago. So I think. Speaker 2 That's that's where I'm going. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 I, I think there's very little between them in the form book in terms of like if you look at when they won their intermediates when Mark was in states, like maybe he would have won an intermediate before if you had, if you hadn't been home. Also the Wexford lads beat Morphy and Joyce in the final and they've gone on a frank deform this year by winning that. So like, I mean, I think I don't, I don't put any great emphasis on that to be honest. I think this is a game that I feel is going to be on the day and it's the fact that none of the four lads have played in a senior final before. But if anything, possibly, possibly Mark has has the most experience of the big, big occasion because he's failing a lot of pro stops and all the pressure that goes with Darling. He's won the collegiates, the new big Kyle in the final, the collegiates. I'll be in a different cold, so I think it's going to be really close. I think a lot will depend on Kyle. If he's on his game, he's absolutely mercurial and he'll he'll kill all around them. But though he's head off, there's to that consistency will come for him. Without a doubt. It'll come, but it just it's not just there yet. He has a lot more good days than bad, but because of the odd bad. So I think that's an interesting aspect. Holden will play his game all it will be as usual, solid S He won't he won't miss much. He'll be he'll compete to his dying breath and he'll be he'll be solid Joe whatever was going to have to be steady on the right when we have to be bringing the ball back hard, doing a simple things well and and chipping in with his fair share of kills. So it's it's a tough place to play the right on these big occasions. That's going to be a really good battle. I don't see too many weaknesses there. And I honestly think it's all in the day. So the fact that you've gone for Kilkenny, I'll just just to divide opinion. I want to go for extra. But like yourself, I think it's going to be tight. The ladies just just before. Speaker 3 Just before you go to, I think it was Joe Devereux that was the winning of the semi final there of the Tipperary lads. I thought he was exceptional on the day and he he's really, he just showed the real calmness, especially the end of the first game where he was tight. He was the one that really stepped up and stepped into the reach. Mark it was Mark was brilliant in the second game and had a lot more control. Joe won that first game for him. Speaker 1 Yeah, he was taken by all himself and Jack Holden, both players on the right. Joe was incredible. Some of the ball he got back to, particularly down in the bottom back, left corner, some of the covering he did to get back there was incredible. Yeah, he kind of he he caught me off guard more than more than any of the rest of them. But make a Long story short and like the cast and vote here. So you know the way this usually goes. And so if we pick somebody, they're probably going to lose. So I'll have to apologize to both Mark and Joe because I'm back in them. I think like what you said, no Mark's experience on the big day, I think that's going to stand to him. So I'm going to go Wexford and so apologies to them and quickly and very quickly because I know we're under pressure for time. MO do you want to say a bit on the World Games particularly? Speaker 3 The women Women's predictions. Oh, sorry, women's. Speaker 1 Predictions it's almost taken for and that is my internal what is it my my internal misogyny you're just. Speaker 3 You're just, you're just thinking of Mayo winning Sam on Sunday, that's exactly. Speaker 1 What it's exactly, I think I'm I the women's is going to be Martina and Ashley. I think it's going to be in two straight and I think it'll be over very, very quickly. I. Speaker 3 I think I think you'd be more competitive than that. I think, I think Fiona and Alana, Alana's, Alana and Ashley are they actually match up quite well. They're good server servers, whatever. I think Martina and Ashley probably win, but I think it'll be more competitive and I don't I think that Martina showed in the singles room with Molly that she can be caught a little bit cold at times and she wasn't looking completely herself in the singles all the way through, although she won the second game handy. So I think I think it'd be in two 2 Limerick, but I think it'd be more competitive. What do you think, Paul? Yeah, basically. Speaker 2 Exactly as you said, I I don't think it's beyond the the rounds of possibility that Roscomo pushed it close, but you'd have to say an all known form Martina, Martina in there with any player is going to be favoured and Ashton's a good player and played well last year. So I think Limerick, Limerick to to crown a good week for Limerick. Speaker 1 Fair enough, right As we nearly got on to their MO. I know a lot of people would have seen the video of the World Games final between France and the Middle East. Some of the celebrations and the crowd antics were exceptional. It is the by far the best atmosphere I've seen on ball. Would you agree? Yeah, well. Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it was the best for a party atmosphere, a really festival atmosphere. It was the best and it would sort of make you sad. As a humble person. I've always said this, the humble like it, we're funereal. You feel like it's almost a house. Private Flowers in Lieu type situation in the gallery had a lot of humble matches. I actually think maybe we need to consider allowing people to cheer during rallies. Why not? I think I. Speaker 3 Think, I think I've, I've been saying for years, they are that exact thing. I think business, yeah, it's not, We're not. Speaker 2 We're not in the Crucible here Like, this, isn't this isn't John Parrott against the Steve Davis here, like, like we should be allowed make a bit of a racket. Like you're telling people to keep quiet and then you nearly have to go. OK, now, Now you can talk louder. Now you can cheer like, people just don't have the attention spans for that anymore. Where's the French lads went went mad and the Middle East crowd actually responded in kind. They couldn't make the same racket as the French. But the following day at the at the football and and horn and commodity finds in in watch park at the French met a serious scene as well. But yeah, it was fantastic. We come back to that again. Maybe there's a way that the GA Gia Hamel can link in more strongly with that competition and till maybe you could put on, you could put on awards, but have it as your elite, have your elite players or something like that. Maybe it's something that could be looked at because it's a good venue down there as well if it stays there, but we might come back to that one. Well, you will. Speaker 1 You share the video of the we clipped up of the the men's final down to share that and kill shots of people can see it Florine. Speaker 3 'S a good player, man. He's he actually is. Speaker 2 Yeah, Large a good player too. He probably hasn't as much humble played of late, I would say, because Florian plays a lot of your own world tournaments and stuff like that. But but that was a good player too. Now, in fairness. Speaker 1 We might wrap it there. So that's because I know we're we're all under pressure. Thanks a million for listening to episode 17 In Between the Lines podcast. Hopefully we won't leave it as long until the next one. The usual rallying cry before a final. Please get your eyes to Croak Park, buy your ticket, fill the gallery. I actually think it would be a sell out and fill the gallery for the big alley double S final between wax and on Saturday. And last but not least for our friend and Mayo Mayo for Sam. Here we go. Here Campbell's a very mental. Speaker 3 Cage.