Ep1180 - Dating 101 | Ask Nick

It started about three years ago, but it's just really awkward. Are they friends? Are they not friends? Is there animosity between them? Yes. Yes. So, friend A, sister passed away four years ago. Friend B is now dating friend A's dead sister's widowed husband. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Meredith. How old are you, Meredith? 40. How can I help? So, one of my best friends is living her hallmark love story while the other is living a devastating family loss. How do I keep them both in my life without feeling like I'm choosing one over the other? Why do you have to choose? I don't have to, and I don't feel like I do, but I didn't know the right question to ask, because I feel like I had set really good boundaries with them. It's more about like say my birthday. Wanting to do something, I want to invite all my friends. And I do. It started about three years ago, and like I'll invite them to my party. Sure. Sometimes one chooses to come, and the other doesn't, or they both come. But it's just really awkward when they're both there. Okay. Are they friends? Are there any animosity between them? Yes. Yes. So there's one friend. Let's say her name is Chloe. She has been like my number one best friend. Like since we were born, our parents grew up together, grew up on the same neighborhood, have been friends forever. The other one, let's say her name is friend B. Friend B. And friend B became our friend in high school. Okay. And we all became pretty inseparable. Chloe, a friend A, sister passed away four years ago, tragically, to cancer. And friend B is now dating friend A's dead sister's ex, well, my ex has been but widow's husband. Okay. So we're all best friends. At first, like we knew friend A really struggled with the passing of her sister of course. It was pretty fast. Seven, she still hasn't really struggled with it a lot, the grief, which there's no right way to grief. But I imagine her sister's widow dating her friend is a choice, answer sure. Yes. And so when they first started talking, well, it was a choice of friend B. I'm big. I met friend B and widow husband started talking. They met at a cheerleading practice. And friend B didn't know anyone there because it was from an outside town. And their town didn't have a cheer game. It's a really convoluted. So friend B didn't know friend A's sister at all. So by the time we became friends in high school, friend A's sister had moved off into college. Like wasn't around at all when we became friends with friend B. Sure. But regardless, it's you guys, the three of you were friends close friends, yeah? Yes. Yes. And while she maybe never met friend A's sister who passed, correct? Yeah. Yeah. She certainly was where her friend lost her sister, correct? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At what point did friend B realize that she was hanging out with the widow? Well, she knew it was the widow. She just asked, she's like, hey, she introduced herself as friend B's best friend. And was like, hey, can we be buddies? I don't know anybody, you know, because they can't go into practice together. So they're all just kind of hanging out in the lobby area while they're their girls. When you were kind of explaining the story, it almost sounded like you were trying to justify friend friend's B's choices. Like, well, she didn't really know the sister who passed type of thing. Right. Yeah. But like, does that really matter? No. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not saying friend B's wrong. For dating this person. Yeah. I don't think either of them are wrong. Personally, I get both sides. Sure. But then I guess when you start justifying things, and it kind of, like, it sounds like a guilt in a way, if I may, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, like, I didn't know and I didn't realize or, you know, like, I didn't really know her. And like, it all sounds like a. Like something wrong happened. Yeah. And it's lacking the appropriate empathy. It's, you know, certainly friend A who's sister's past sounds like maybe she hasn't fully processed this loss. We did. So when they first started talking, friend B was like told the widow, "Hey, like, you should probably ask if this is okay." Like, we know that this is kind of weird territory, you know? So he did. And she said, "Yeah, sure. Talk to her. This was about a year and a half after her sister passed." You kind of got her blessing at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And then what things kind of, it took off and they really kind of fell for each other and then it got weird. Yeah. Yeah. So she knew, but she knew that they were talking. She knew that they hung out in about a month later. We had our typical girls night. We're just hanging out and you know, we talked about it face to face and we're like, "I'm crying, friend B's crying because we know like this is just kind of something that happened and didn't expect to happen. We know how much from A hurts." And so we're like, "Are you really okay with this?" Like, she's like, "I really enjoy talking to him." And she's like, "Yes, I want you to be happy." And I want him to be happy. She has since about a year into their relationship, has since once she realized how serious it was getting, even though they've been very slow in their relationship, she slowly has changed her mind. Okay. Yeah. And that's where the more the awkwardness comes and it wasn't awkward at first, it was. So what are you hoping I can help you with? Just kind of let go of like what, what am I holding on to? Like I. What are you holding on to? What do you mean? But why am I letting it affect me so much? Well, I assume you care about both these women. You know they're both hurting. You don't really have a clear answer in terms of like no one's like you said doing anything wrong at you know. Yeah. Everything you're saying makes sense. You know, it sounds like friend B acknowledged the sensitivity of this situation. Not the first time, you know, a person passed and a friend group and you know, it's like hard to meet people and it sounds like there was like an organic meet cute I guess. I don't know. I don't know how else to describe it. Right. And friend A thinks that was set up and it wasn't set up by who? Friend B. At first she wasn't like thinking like that. But now she has like more negative thoughts towards it. But it sounds like your opinion about the situation is you don't think friend B did anything nefarious or shady or wrong. You empathize with your friend A. And you and you feel like you're stuck in the middle of it. Yeah. And I just want to be able to have the normal things like okay say we like to go to like craft fairs and markets and things and invite them and then it like not be so awkward like I want them and I know I can't do this. But I just want them to talk and be like okay. Like well, I think right now it's never going to be the same. Yeah. But right now I find it normal. Yeah. It sounds I mean this that I can't I don't I can't help friend A or friend B. And you're calling in is it to your problem. And I understand that you feel like you're stuck in the middle of it. But I wonder if the solution isn't to center your feelings on this situation. I mean it's not ideal. I get it. But like right now it's like if I'm understanding you you're trying to figure out how to continue to keep the friend group civil so that you can hang out with both these women. But you know because it used to be the three of you and you enjoyed those times. You're not able to do that anymore. And you're still trying to figure out how to get that done. Is that my my accurate? Yeah. And then we do hang out. But with it not being so me feeling like you know like I'm having two separate conversations because they don't talk. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess right now I think you've got to let that go as my point. Like right now you're focused on how this is affecting you. I understand it's affecting you. It sucks. But you are the third wheel in this story, right? Like obviously friend B is sounds like she has genuine feelings for this person and probably feels like she's being accused of something she didn't do and she's being presented by friend A seemingly like the only solution is to end that relationship out of respect for her sister who passed which doesn't seem practical to friend B because she's like I didn't do anything wrong and like I'm so sorry this happened your sister but like and again it's not really you know her ex-husband now is he has the right to move on with his life and if he's found comfort in this person again I understand the weirdness of it but like and it sounds like friend A just really needs to process this you know and it can be very difficult and all you can do is encourage your friend A to his friend day mad at you for supporting Friend B. She doesn't show it to me. Okay. Well, there you go. So like, that's good. But right now, I think your primary concern, you need to let go of this desire to get the band back together and to make things how they used to be. That's not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe never. I don't expect it to. Yeah. I don't. And that's why I've had that conversation with Friend A. I'm like, it's never going to be the same. I'm not asking it to be. I just want to move forward. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think you need to stop talking to Friend A about what you want. I mean, this with love. What you want is the least important thing in this equation. You right now, I want you to focus on wanting Friend A to get whatever help she needs. Yeah. I signed her up for counseling. I told her, but I think the goal needs not to be because it's the way you talk. It sounds like the goal is to like, again, get your friend group right together. And that makes you sad that you don't have your friend group. And that creates complication in your life because you feel like when you do invite these two women, you feel awkward, right? It feels different. You know, you don't like the vibes. For sure, that's completely understandable. But nevertheless, there's no solution to your problem, right? And, and, and, and quite frankly, I, right. Frankly, I don't think like Friend A is going to empathize with your uncomfortability of the situation. Right. No. And I guess, gosh, I hope I don't coming. I'm not coming off that way. So that's a good perspective. Well, I mean, again, I'm, I've, I've just talked to you and I understand this is why you're calling in because it does bother you. And I get that. But if you are communicating to them the way your community, me, it does come off that way that you care that your, your big frustration with this whole situation is your problems, which, and again, like I understand why you have a problem with this situation, but it's not going to land with friend A for sure. And as far as friend B, I'm sure it might land a little bit better because I'm sure she doesn't like these accusations from friend A. Yeah. But again, I don't think her biggest concern is the friend group either. I think she's more concerned about not being painted as some sort of home wrecker or some, you know, shady person. Right. Yeah. No, her image for sure. Yeah. And so if people that know the situation, no, it's not true. You know, they, yeah. But I guess what I'm saying is when you tell the story, you, you talk about how it's affecting you the most. And I understand that it is affecting you. But I don't know if centering that is the solution to your problem. I think you have to try to, for the time being separate the friendship, I would stop going out of your way to try to find ways to invite them both the same thing if that's not what they want because that's what you want. It's not what they want. Yeah. No. And I don't do it very often. Why do you do it at all at this point? Well, like my birthday, for example. Okay. Well, listen, I mean, at this point, all you can do is just be honest. You can say, Hey, listen, I'm having my birthday party. I'd love you both to be there. I hope you come. And then it's like sometimes she comes and sometimes she doesn't. Okay. Great. Right. And then when that happens, you have to at that point, I guess with, I guess my advice for you is to like not make you have to accept that this is a situation. And for the sake of your birthday party, you can't go and expect for a day to be like, I need you to go, I need to be cool and not ruin my birthday party. So to speak. Yeah. You know, I can't really ruin it. They're fine. They're cordial. They're just it's that you can you let it bother you. You let it bother you. Yeah. So again, like if your goal, you know, you know, I'm saying you have to stop. You just have to accept this situation. I know it's tough. Yeah. But it bothers you the most when it you're trying to enjoy both their company at the same time. Correct. Correct. Yeah. And I think you need to stop trying to have that expectation for the time being because that's when it sounds like you're you're centering your feelings on the situation more than either of theirs. It's hard. Yeah. I'm very good with boundaries like that. And I've set them and they know what that you know, I don't want to be in the middle. So don't but don't be in the middle, you know, like you have you you have to not you you are putting yourself in the middle. Right. And I understand that you are organically, I guess, in the middle. But right now you have to accept that. And right now in terms of and you have to maintain these friendships separately, it sounds like there is some civility here where like it's not like friend day has demanded you stopping friends with friend B, right? That that hasn't happened. Yeah. Okay. No. No. Right. And so it sounds like they have accepted that you are friends with both and it's not a big deal. What they haven't accepted is specifically friend A. She hasn't accepted to not feel a certain way about friend B doing what she's doing, which is totally understandable. If you want to invite them both, you have to invite them both knowing that friend A is going to feel a certain way and be a certain way and act a certain way. And you inviting friend B and friend A. And then knowing what's probably to go down, then it goes down. And then you choose to like be upset about the thing, which is again, is understandable. But that's when you are you're making it about you. Yeah. And again, I'm not saying you don't have a right to be sad or feel about this, but I don't that's not solving the problem. Right now, I think you just need to support. I don't think the problem will be solved. Maybe not. But in the meantime, you need to pour your love. You need to focus on these friendships individually because right now it sounds like you're still focused on saving the group dynamic. Yeah. I mean, I can see where, you know, that comes off for sure. And I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. And it totally makes sense while you're while you're while you're doing this. But it's like I think just focus on what your relationship with friend A. Try to be there for her. Certainly encourage her if there's a lane there for her to try to process this loss. But it can't it can't come across as you have alternative motives, which is I just want to get the band back together. What you want is friend B friend A to just be able to move on with her life and, you know, and be able to memorialize her sister in a way that doesn't stop her from living her life. Right. And then you can still be friends with friend B and and and support her in her relationship, you know, but like this stop trying to bring them together. If it is a situation like your birthday and you're just like listen, I just want my friends to be there. And you give them a head up heads up and they choose to be there. Then you have to accept that there still might be an awkward vibe. And you can't really get you're choosing to get upset about that right now. Right. And it's I get it's on a understanding. But like you said, this is being going on for a while now. And you just have to kind of accept the new normal and maybe things will change. But right now you're trying to force it. It sounds like. And then in that wound, you force it. And then it's just like you're just like, yeah, I just miss the old days and I can't believe it's like this. And why does it have to be this way? And it's all centered around your discomfort with the new reality. And it's less about your friend's discomfort. It's about the reality. Like you're doing beyond us. You're kind of annoyed, which I get. Like it's frustrating for you. You're like, why does this is? Yeah. No, definitely annoying because that's like really like we just need to I just am ready to move on and find our new normal like, but yeah, but that's what I'm saying. You are. You're going to small town. Yeah, you're ready. I get why you're ready around each other all the time. But your friend, friend A is this not ready? Maybe she should be ready. I mean, maybe she's not helping herself out to be right, you know, but like, right. You just have to accept that and she's going to have to go at her pace. And if you want to be a friend to friend A, you're going to have to be more accepting of her pace and not your pace. That's a very slow pace, but I'll be there. Because like you said, this is the reality. And you don't have to be friends with her. But if you want to, you're going to have to try to like, you're going to try to have to meet your friend where she's at. Right now, you're trying to get her to meet her. You or you're at, which is like this. I don't like that. This has happened. Yeah, I mean, but you have to process the loss of the group, but your friend has to process the loss of her sister and then process what feels like abandonment from her ex brother-in-law and the weirdness of her dating her friend, which probably whether it's is or it is not has some level of feelings like a betrayal and she's processing that, which is probably why she's, you know, again, it sounds like she knows that it's not, but like it just feels a certain way. Yeah. But meanwhile, you're just really annoyed that the vibes off. I guess. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I would use annoyed, but frustrated. I mean, man, that's all the above. I'm sure there are moments of annoyance, sadness. It sucks. It sucks. But my point is it sucks for you. And that's the thing that makes you the most sad because you wish it was different. And I think right now, from your perspective, right now, it doesn't sound like friend day is remotely sad about the friend group. Yeah, I don't know. I'd be willing to, I'd like to ask her. I just don't think that the group is her primary concern right now. No, it's not. It's your concern. Yes. That's the point. I think you need to try it to let go right now. You still have both these women in your life. Yes. You're still friends with them. Yes. That's what you need to embrace. And maybe it will change, but it's going to change on their time, not yours. And in the meantime, you're just going to have to accept this new normal. And then when certain situations that are sewn around you, like your birthday, you're just going to have to make some choices. And it sounds like maybe that choice is to invite them both. Right, and I do. Great. But when that happens, you can't do the thing where it's just like, then you make the choice to invite them both. And then you make the entire party or event about you hoping or wishing or worrying about how those two women interact with each other. Yeah. I don't. I don't do that. But it's the aftermath. Like people coming to me being like, oh my gosh, did you feel the tension? Like they didn't even talk. They, you know, well, I mean, you're used to that. So again, you just have to get used to that. And again, you can, you know, don't indulge in the drama, don't indulge in the gossip. And if that happens, yeah, it's a tough situation if there's no, you know, I'm sad for the situation. Obviously, I love them both. And like just don't lean in the gossip, you know, be like, yeah, no, that was really weird. It's like, you know, it's going to be weird. Right. No, I do. I just like, I just want them to be happy. Yeah. No, I don't want to get that. And then no friend A isn't happy. Yeah. And I just want her to be well focused on that and focus on being there for her. Yeah. I am. And I know she appreciates it. Like, I know she, it's just I want her to be happy. I can't make her happy though. You can't, but you still can be there for her. Yes. And I am. But the more you, the more you make her feel bad for being uncomfortable with the situation, she is the right to be uncomfortable with, whether you intend to make her feel bad or not, it's not in helping the situation. And that's what I mean. Like the, whether, again, you have every right to feel how you feel. That's not the point. The point is a little more than I think you should be for the sake of the big picture. You're, you're just kind of centering how this is making you feel over how it's making them feel. Okay. I mean, I know it's not, I'm not, I'm not really probably. No, I, I'm just, I, I don't, yeah, it's hard like I, I feel like I'm like over empathizing for a friend A. I just want her to be happy. I want her to be. I don't think you're over empathizing. I mean, like, how can you over empathize in this situation? I just, I, like, take on her energy and I'm just so sad for her. Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, you're a good friend, you know, just, you got to let go of the group. I saw it. Right. Well, I have to let go of who she was, you know, it's not necessarily even the group. It's let go of who friend A was. For now. For now. For now. But, you know. She'll never be the same. But. Yeah. I don't know. You don't, you don't know that. In the meantime, you just got to be there for. Yeah. Which I am. I am. Like I said, I just want her to be happy. And there's so much more. There's like, so my friend A widows mom, friend A's mom and dad widow and friend A's grandmother all live in a cul-de-sac. That's where it's like more daily because obviously friend B goes over and she spends the night. And she, so it's like in her face more. It's like when she's doing dishes out the kitchen, she sees friend B, drive in like, man, this couldn't be more entwined. Yeah. Has nothing to do with me. But. No, I know. It's. Yeah. But yeah, and that much you can do about that. That's another stressor. But it's not my stress. Let it go. Yeah. There's going to be. There's a lot more drama. But it's not mine. You got to try to, I mean, as much as you can, it's trying to get your friend not to encourage her to try to move forward. I've tried everything, I feel it's time, but it's been not saying for her to be completely moved on, but like something, something to help her move on. Well, in the meantime, just be a friend. Yeah. And try not to make it something that you need, you're not going to solve this problem. No. No. But what you can do is still be a friend. And that friendship can evolve and change, but like, you know, and that's, I think, this is what you got to focus on. Yes. I appreciate it. All right. Sorry. It wasn't more helpful. Sorry for getting emotional. No, no. It sounds like a very, you know, it's your whole life and, you know, it's your people and it sucks when your people are, you know, not getting along. Right. It's just, I just want her to be happy. I wish I could help her move forward and move on. You know, like, she's just, is she getting therapy? Is she getting help? She will do anything. Yeah. It's too bad. You know, I tried. Like I said, I've literally signed up for her. I will go with her. Like, she just isn't ready. Well, it's just all you can do is keep encouraging her. Yep. Well, thank you. Well, thanks for calling in. Sorry. I wasn't more helpful. No. No, it's just good to hear. Like I said, this has been going on for three years. And I'm like, I listened to the asthmic, obviously. And I'm like, I'm just going to write it. And if I get picked, it's meant to be. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, I appreciate the call. Thank you. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. How's it going? Not bad in yourself. I'm good. What's your name? My name is Claire and I'm 37 talking about Claire. I am trying to navigate my 25 year friendship into a relationship. I've been struggling with his and my dynamic for the better part of two years now, because we get overwhelmed when we are trying to be romantic with one another because of our dynamic in our past. So I'm just trying to figure out what we're able to do with. So you've been friends with this man for a lifetime? Yeah. He-- so we started becoming friends when he was 11, and I was 13. When I was trying to figure out what was going on with him and his mental health, I blurted out that I loved him. And I don't know how to navigate our friendship moving forward. If I-- I'm at the point where I don't know if I should go back to being friends with him or stay romantic with him or not. So you guys are currently romantic? It's currently romantic right now, yeah. OK, and what's the problem with your dynamic? What's the issue? Because I'm pretty sure that him and I are both neurodivergent to a certain degree. I found out that I am possibly autistic. And my dad and my niece are both autistic, and I also have an uncle, and I didn't know that I was autistic until recently. We have you being diagnosed by a doctor? No, not yet. I-- because I found all of that out at the same time as our dynamic kind of change. A lot of it comes to do with our dynamic with our friends and my mom and whatnot. They've gotten really involved in our friendship. And they basically say that he's only out to just have sex with me. But we can't do any of that if our life depended on it. So-- What do you mean? We just-- we struggle. We're struggling with being romantic with one another, even though we want to be with one another, is really what it comes down to. He gets really overwhelmed when I get upset about anything, and then I get overwhelmed when our dynamic has to stop for a bit so that we can stop being overwhelmed. And like I said, I'm at the point where I don't know if I should stop the dynamic completely because our friendship was easier to have or maintain moving forward with it and just give myself a lot more grace. OK. I guess I'm just a little confused by what this dynamic is. So you said you couldn't be intimate if your life depended on it. I understood that correctly. Yes. We're having a hard time with it, yeah. OK. Just a lot of nerves. Yeah. So you guys are-- you both have some anxiety around physical intimacy, which-- Yes. --probably more common than you realize. So you also think he's neurodivergent or autistic. Yeah. And was he diagnosed? I can't really claim it, but I tend to connect better with neurodivergent people. And it's been a pattern in my life that I usually only hang out with them. And how do you know that they're neurodivergent? Are they diagnosed? Yes. Most of them, yeah. OK. I can't really go based on who he is. It's just how he acts with me and-- How does he act with you? There's always been an underlying romantic connection that we were not able to figure out for a long time and he said the same thing himself. So I don't know, I was dating his best friend and his friend attempted to hook up with me and I got really uncomfortable. And I told him that I'm pretty sure that I'm in love with-- and I don't think that this is the right thing to do. And just before his-- friend had passed away in a car accident. He had told his friend that I was dating that he did love me, but I didn't find out that information because his friend had passed away. So that's another huge hurdle that him and I have been navigating as well. Which is that he told someone that he loved you? Yeah. Well, somebody that was close to him, but he passed away. The thing that I've been struggling with, I think the most is that I worry that he thinks that something happened more so with him and nothing ever ended up happening. Did you have a conversation? I mean, I guess what conversations do you have with this person about your relationship? So he's he's openly said that he does does want to be with me. Both him and I are navigating. He's got kids. I don't have kids. He's trying to figure out what's going on with his children before we end up getting together. What what is he trying to figure out? He's still currently living with his ex-partner because of financial reasons. Okay. That's complicated for sure. Yeah. It's extremely complicated. That doesn't stop you guys from like getting coffee or ice cream and be you know, it might stop you guys. It certainly is complicated. It might be something you have to navigate around, but it doesn't necessarily have to stop you guys from being together. Do you have any reservations about his relationships that is with his ex-partner? I do. Sometimes yeah. That's part of the reason why I don't know if I should end it because I don't want to ruin a really good friendship that I've had for 25 years. Yeah. Well, I mean like sometimes, you know, sometimes relationships pass the point of no return. I mean, it doesn't sound like you guys have a ton of like healthy communication. Yeah. It would require a lot of communication to take a relationship backwards. You know, short of you guys both being like, yeah, we listen, we tried romantically. It didn't work out. We both accept that no hard feelings, but we do value each other's friendships. Let's do that. I mean, it's possible, but you both have to want to do it. Yeah. I'm still a little confused by the neurodivergencey aspect of the story. It's mainly because I just found out. I just found out like within the last few months. What did you find out? Again, remind me. My mom told me that I was neurodivergent. Your mom's not a doctor. No, but she thinks that I am autistic to a certain degree. If it's something you're really concerned about, you should see a doctor. You know, I want to be careful with how I say things, because you know, listen, like maybe you are, I don't know. I think again, that's something a doctor needs to diagnose. And it sounds like the way you're talking to me is like this mom's diagnosis has really thrown you for a loop. Like it's like hit you like a ton of bricks. It has. But I'm just, but again, she's not a doctor in what's changed. Other than your mom, self-diagnosing you, like, I'm just wondering why mom's diagnosis is bothering you so much. She's always been super critical of everything that I do in my life. And I'm going to use my sister's situation for example. She's. She's had seizures and she's she's been diagnosed with epilepsy and she's kind of been the main character. Okay. And in my parents life. And I've always expressed a lot of the things that I've struggled with in my life. And instead of them having the grace for me, like, they do for her, I haven't received that. So navigating and doing big life adult things and choosing people that matter to you has been a struggle for me because of the main character syndrome. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's probably pretty relatable for like, you know, family dynamics. Are you, do you get therapy? Are you in therapy at all? Um, I try not to. I lean more deeply in my faith. Okay. I'm more into Bible studies. Um, I follow Taylor Welsh very heavily. Okay. How has that helped you? Why can't you do both? The application. The application. So with Taylor Welsh, he, he helps with like, the application of what the Bible reads and how you apply it to your life a little bit better. Just hearing words and then trying to apply it. Because I, I struggle with like the, like, I, I understand it to a certain degree, but applying it to what's going on right now didn't make sense. So his podcast, his podcast has really helped me. And who is he's just a podcaster? He actually does like business coaching and stuff like that, but yeah. Okay. But he's not like a, he's not a doctor or spiritual leader. Okay. Um, I'm glad it's helped you. I mean, it sounds like maybe it hasn't helped you as much as it, you know, like, I guess like what, because like, listen, like, you, you're describing some, like, sound like some, some wounds from your childhood that have carried over an adult hood. Yeah. And it sounds like you're looking for some answers. Yeah. And I, yeah, I know that this is not the place to do it. Cause I know that you're not an expert by any means, but I mean, listen, like, like this other guy, I'm happy to talk through stuff with you. And I hope that you find it somewhat helpful. Yeah. I just like again, I just, you, it sounds like you are looking for answers. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. And oh, I'm just curious, is it against your faith therapy or something? Why are you resistant to the possibility of getting answers from someone who is a professional? I've struggled with finding the right one. I've been, yeah, I've been to therapists for the, like, pretty much quarterly every year. And I haven't really found any of their advice helpful by any means. Is there a particular bit of advice that you got that you didn't find helpful? I just, I feel like I spend more time talking about what my situations are. And then I, I need answers. And a lot of it is like trying to navigate my moms and my relationship as opposed to my personal relationships. Okay. So it sounds like you maybe you need to set some healthy boundaries with mom. I had to, I had to cut my mom off. Okay. And that's been, been a little bit more, it's been easier on me. It's made me navigate my life a lot easier, but it still doesn't change the fact that I struggle to find the answers in my own personal life. So yeah. No, I hear you. But I, I like, like, so if we cut mom off, why is mom diagnosing you throwing you perceptual loop? I don't, I don't know if she's trying to make up for lost time in her, with her being a mom and not really being there for me. And she's, I feel like she's just kind of grasping its draws and throwing fireballs at me if that makes sense. Yeah, maybe, I don't know, maybe like, I don't know, it's your, your sister has sounds like she has some health conditions for whatever reason your mom, I don't, maybe connect, like, it allowed your mom to like, I guess, but it sounds like more than anything, you just like, it sounds like you just have some poor communication with your partner, the friend. That sounds like, you know, see that relationship you're trying to figure out, you have your relation with your mom. I'm trying not to focus on my mom's and my relationship as much because she hasn't really made me feel like I mattered. And after I've, after I've said that I loved him, I, I don't know how I'm supposed to either one rain my relationship back or continue to move forward with it. Do you love him? I do. Do you think he loves you? I know he does. Okay, so that's a great start. Yeah. Why don't you guys focus on that? Whether you guys talked openly to each other about the love you have for each other? We, we have talked openly. He, he does get overwhelmed every once in a while about it. And what do you, what do you mean by that? He tends to distance himself every time the topic comes back up. So when you guys talk about each other's feelings, he, he, he leaves? Yeah, he bolts. Okay, that's not good. How do you know he loves you then? I, I can only go based on what he said. And I can only take what he said at face value to a certain point. How do you take his actions at face value? He's always, so he's always been the type of person that's shown up for me. So after his friend died, he, I used to work in, I used to work in wireless, just like you did. And he used to come up to my kiosk often to come and visit with me. We are now since self-employed and we do what he, we can do, we do what we can to meet up in between and go for coffee and stuff like that. But after, after we have opened up about our feelings, he's been built in more because of him being overwhelmed. How do you know it's so him being overwhelmed? He's got a lot going on in his life with his business and then I've got a lot going on with my business. I mean, I got, you know, we all have a lot going on. What does that stop him from? Usually like, you know, I know like sometimes like, you know, the truth can be a little scary, but usually when you find out someone loves you and you love them, Usually a good thing, and I can certainly understand why maybe it's just like, oh, wow, that was a lot to take in and maybe sit with it for a night. But you're describing a theme, which is he kind of disengages for periods of time. And then it also sounds like, since you also diagnosed him as autistic, it almost is suggesting it's easier for you to think he's autistic, and that's why he disengages rather than maybe just something else that's more. It's possible, yeah. To me, it's just like, if I don't know what a diagnosis does for you to, other than if it's just like helping you better understand how your brain works, and then maybe learning some tips and tricks, given how your brain works to help deal with situations, like coping mechanisms, you know, helping with anxiety, things like that, these are, and these would probably, you would probably get these from some kind of expert of autism, you know, if that is the case. But like, you need to stop self-diagnosing. Yeah. If you actually think you are, you should go get a diagnosis. I think that's a good idea. And yeah, I appreciate you listening to this podcast. I hope you find the things we talk about this helpful, but if you have some real, you know, hurdles in your life that you're having a hard time navigating on your own, it's okay to get the help of a professional, you know, to help work through some of these challenges. I'm glad you have a faith-based life, and I hope that brings you peace and comfort, but I hope it's, I hope it's also getting you somewhere. I hope it's helping you, you know, and it doesn't sound like it's helping you with understanding my brain, you mean? Yeah. I don't know, but I don't know what my mom is trying to solve with who cares? Yeah. I don't know your mom. I mean, you know, parents, who she doesn't know, maybe she's just, maybe she's got her own family trauma. I don't, you know, I'm saying again, like, to what you're describing is your sister had a condition and you feel like your mom really connected with your sister over that condition in a way that you felt almost kind of forgotten as a child. Yeah. Even your mom ever since have had a very complicated relationship and you've had a hard time connecting with your mom, which is sad, and it's another thing that you probably want to deal with. But I also don't want it to affect my personal life to a certain degree either, so. Yeah, but it is, and, you know, but you have to just deal with that. Yeah. As far as your relationship goes, I'm having a hard time kind of reading it, but I, again, anything until he gets diagnosed, I would stop telling yourself he is. Yeah. A lot of people deal with anxiety, a lot of people have a hard time dealing with stress, a lot of people disengage. There's some a million reasons why that's possible. Maybe he is until, you know, if you're actually, if he's actually things he might be, he should get diagnosed, simply just naming it and just being like, well, you know, I'm autistic, he's autistic. I guess that's why we have a hard time connecting. I don't think is, is the best path forward for you to, to think that way, because then it just kind of becomes a label that you kind of use at your convenience when you don't, when you have a, when you can't explain how you feel or what's going on in your life, you just throw a label at it, which is almost like therapy talk, which is something that I hate. Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, very much so. And again, like, I, I don't know the fact that you're not totally confident in his relationship set of his ex. I don't think has anything to do with whether he or you are autistic, you know, that's just a trust thing. I think it's more overwhelmed and maybe our feelings are not there is, I guess, that's where my heads are right now. I just don't know if my feelings are there as much as they were. And I don't know if it's worth it to be romantic with him is, I guess, what I'm struggling with. Well, that's only for you to decide. No, yeah. But does he bring you happiness? Do you, you know, again, like, it's like what do you, what kind of life would do you want with him? I mean, you know, you're, you guys are both adults, like, you know, an adult romantic relationship, you guys should be talking about, you know, A is this real. Doesn't sound like it's all that real to him. I don't think it's not, he's capable of being in a relationship. He's proven that he might need some therapy. He might need to process his emotions, he might need to do a stress a little bit better. Maybe there's a world where some medication could help him. I don't know. But he is capable of, of being in a relationship and him disengaging, you know, I don't, might just be, he is incapable of being in the relationship that you want to be in regardless of the reason. Yeah. So it sounds like I should probably just give up on it, move on. I mean, maybe, I mean, if that, if you don't think there's a path forward, I mean, if you don't think you can talk to him about this stuff ever without him disengaging the way he does. If you can't get a clear answer from him, if you're constantly just sitting around guessing how he feels or guessing his motives and then coming up with diagnosis is that are, you know, to try to help explain it that are just best guesses. Yeah. It sounds like a very difficult path forward. But if you can communicate, you know, you, you just, you know, my, well, I guess the reason why I struggle with it is because when he goes off radar, he, I, I just live my life and then he comes back and then he comes, goes off and then he comes back and it's, it's a constant yo, yo, with my life and I'm like, hey, do you like what you want at this point? Well, what, are you asking what he wants or what you want? What he wants. Okay. Well, yeah, but what you want is someone who doesn't pop in and out, but when he does pop in, you don't, you just accept him. You just, you just let him back in. There have been times where I wasn't like when I was in relationships where I wouldn't let him come back. Okay. I don't know. Well, you were in relationship. Yeah. It was in a relationship and so there was like an obvious like reason why you couldn't do that. You were in a relationship with someone else, but as a single person, you can still enforce that boundary, but you're choosing not to. Yeah. That's what everybody's been trying to tell me and I should probably just accept it at the point. Yeah. Maybe the way that I look at it is it's my life too and I don't really want to keep having this yo yo in my life because I do have, I do have other people in my life that are interested in being with me and having a relationship with me and I don't want to say that I've held out hope for him being in my life by any means, but because I was single and he reached out and he's single at the same time, it's just kind of, what are we going to do now? But I honestly think that he probably is taking advantage of me if he's popping in and out. Probably. And that's just good old fashioned selfishness, I could diagnose. Well, I find this, I feel this helpful and I did find this helpful. I don't know what more else to say about this. You know, I'm glad you found it helpful, but again, I just, again, my biggest thing is like just be very careful with diagnosing yourself or letting other people diagnose. If you think there's truth to what people are saying by all means, go talk to an expert, but let's, let's not use self-diagnosis as an internet, you know, clips is a, is a more convenient way to explain things you can't explain. And yeah, it sounds like, you know, listen, you have a lifetime with this guy and it sounds like you had some hope and some love there, but you care about him and he probably cares about you, but he's, you know, neither of you are willing to do what it takes, you know, it requires both of you. And like you said, you, it sounds like you have a life that you've put on hold for this guy and you just, you should stop doing that. And I would just encourage you to be maybe open about therapy and maybe just finding the right therapist is really important, maybe you haven't found that person yet. You can still have a faith-based life, you can still listen to whatever podcast you want, but like, and again, like I think people can be over-therapies, I think there's a bad therapist out there, you know, be, you know, but the trick is is finding someone you feel like, here's you, you know, and helping you move forward and helping you understand yourself a little bit better. And there's definitely someone out there who I'm sure it can help, especially with the relation to your mom, you just might require like some good therapy. Just for no other reason, just so you can be at peace with what you're, where your relationship is with your mom. And right now you, you know, like it's, I see your head spinning where you're just like, you don't even really understand what's going on with your mom and you've made a choice to like cut her off, but it sounds like you're not even comfortable with that choice, but it's like the lesser of two evils. And if you are going to cut your mom off, maybe that is a necessity, but I'd love for you to be more confident about your decision and understand why you made that decision and feel good about that decision and even understand if there's a, if this is a, is this a temporary decision? Is this a permanent decision? Is there a goal with this decision, you know, it just sounds like a reactive choice you made and you don't really know if it was the right choice. Definitely don't, definitely don't feel like it's the right one. Yeah. I'm a very loyal person. I don't like cutting people off in my life. Yeah, especially your parents. Yeah. If I were you, I would want to understand that decision I'm making and I'd want to feel, you know that you're going to ever feel good about it. But there are people out there who have had to cut their family members off and while that wasn't a fun decision They were better for it and they felt good about it because it you know, and maybe it was like a Again, not ideal and the lesser of I say two bad choices, but you know It may be brought them peace because the person they had to cut off was was bringing a lot of negativity in their their life Yeah And it sound you're you the way you talk it sounds like you know offense are like I heard the idea on a podcast and we're like fuck it. Well, let's try this see how it goes pretty much I do my very best to try any opportunity to get answers in my life and I've always appreciated your advice and I wanted I wanted to see what you had to say about it. Yeah, and I appreciate you calling it and I and I I really am grateful that you you you trust me, but like again like you know This show is about just kind of talking about relationships and best practices and You know the thing like I've kind of said before the thing I'm really good at is you know I've there's been a lot of situations in my life that are where I've gotten stuck on People and situations and a lot of that I've had to realize was just my perspective on the situation and I've I've gotten good at Seeing the big picture. I got better at empathizing with the other side You know, but some of these situations the people people find themselves and do stem from childhood traumas and And are more complex and complicated that require you know You know ongoing Conversations and probably the help of an expert and that you know this show or any other podcast can't replace that if that if that is a need All right, yeah Well, this has been helpful. Okay, mom glad I wasn't sure if I was being helpful but No, it has helped I know that it's complicated and I didn't know where I didn't know where to land on this and because I A lot of things have changed and how I feel since I wrote in to you. So I wanted to make sure that Okay I at least got some answers from you because that's that's why I reached out so Well, I appreciate you reaching out. I appreciate you listening. I'm glad you're a fan of the show And I'm glad you find this show helpful, but like you're stuck Right and you need to get unstuck and you need to get some answers um and your answers Need to feel helpful and it needs to feel like you are getting some clarity and it doesn't sound like all these answers You've gotten even from this show has actually helped you get unstuck Yeah, and I think that is that is a sign that maybe someone who is more of an expert can help can help you do that I really appreciate that advice. Okay. Well, I hope you have a good day. You too. Appreciate the call. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye How's it going? Great. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Yeah, great. All right. What's your name? My name is Pam. Okay, I'm 29. Okay, and I'm gonna help I don't know how to date Okay. Why do you say that? Um, I guess I've never really dated four so ever. I don't know how well I was married, but like I feel like that I just like I fell into that so Sure, but okay, so off the bat you are definitely like underselling your Experience and ability, you know, like some not really. Okay. Tell me about your marriage quickly. I don't know. It wasn't great But like we were friends before. Okay, so Like it just you know, happened How old are you? We started dating when I was like 20 and then I got married at 21. Okay. Um, how long you've been divorced? Over three years. Okay And what have you been doing for the past three years when it comes to your love life? Not much recently. I tried downloading like dating apps. Okay. That's that's a then strike it out What do you mean striking out? I don't know. It just like hasn't gone well. Yeah, it doesn't go well for anyone Yeah, so don't beat yourself up, but so like you don't like anyone. You don't feel like anyone likes you or just no one's really talking and just Do you feel like you're getting rejected? Yeah, for sure How so like what's going on that makes you feel rejected on the amps? Well, like they'll just like not answer, which is fine, but like I think I also prompt it. How so what do you mean? Well, like I think that like I don't see a whole point to like talking too much on an app like I'm like, oh, like let's just me Yeah, so like I'll be like oh, so when do you want to ask me out and then just Critics. Okay. Well, I mean unfortunately How them work? I wouldn't take that personally and if anything that's just you know so much about dating So, you know, I know you feel like you have no dating experience or ability, but like so much about dating is just it's like sales I mean, you're ultimately selling yourself and I don't as someone who used to work in sales You know, it's like you have to get a hundred knows before you get one maybe And you kind of get used to that mentality and you don't take it personally type of thing and dating is a little bit of like that Right because you want everyone to love you and be obsessed with you and then you want to choose from that pool of people who's who are obsessed with you And that's just kind of not reality right and then you incorporate the dating apps where you have you know It's become a hot or not thing it's become like a hook-up app and it's become something people do when they're bored And they're just kind of unserious and everyone has their dating horror stories and it's like You know, and so when you are you know Trying to set up a date and they don't get a respond it feels like rejection It's not they're not rejecting you. They don't even know you they they see a picture or two And regardless of whether the pictures are great and you think they're completely accurate They're like I don't know. I don't even know if it's really her, you know like I just you know, it's like Everyone's been ghosted or catfished or whatever You know everyone's who anyone who's been on the dating app for any period of time has gone on a date with someone We're like that is not the person in the picture What the fuck you know what I'm saying. So now when a guy Is like, I don't know do I want to spend 150 bucks on this stranger? I don't fucking know, you know It's a lot of that. It's definitely not you right so more the most important thing if you're gonna go on the apps is to You really have to not take it personally especially with communication with strangers Like you haven't even confirmed their human yet You know I just confirmed one person was a human. Okay, good and They still ghosted me And what and how did you know they were a human? Oh, like um We like thought he's whether on Instagram and then we had a mutual okay And they're actually like dating somebody that I know or like their brother's dating on them. Okay, hold on Okay, um, well listen you're I don't know you at all you you seem like a wonderfully eligible batch threat so to speak like you there's You're not quasi-moto. You're a good-looking person. You know, I don't know like you're just Clearly have stuff going for you. You just have to like and I think more than maybe there's a confidence thing You have to find, you know, all right. Where do you do you live in a like a big city small city small town Small city small city. Do you have a single friends? A lot of single friends. I'm not a lot now Okay, a few any yeah like one one. Okay, and do you have fun with her? But one hey listen like a lot of sometimes are you going out outside of work? Not really. Okay, so you might okay, so you have okay, sounds like you have a just kind of very you're you're very Very comfortable lifestyle at 29 years old that you've carved out for yourself. You like that life You need to change some things about it for the sake of what you want for yourself long term Sounds like because you you're not going to meet anyone, you know, and you you probably have a small circle Have a small like small circles are great. Are you in a little introverted? Yeah, okay. Yeah, same But you're gonna have you're gonna have to get out of your comfort zone a little bit to make some Make something to make some changes in your life. You want things to change right like by definition you want to date You're not dating now. So you it's gonna require some change And I think step one is you kind of being comfortable with that and kind of like baby steps, right? Like maybe like Encourage yourself to this one friend that you have to go out and get some drinks. Just get out, you know Just go out and go out where men are, you know, get out there be social Maybe join some kind of after work, you know, social, you know Co-ed volleyball. I don't know, you know, whatever it is you got to put yourself in situations where there are other people There's just a lot of lonely People out there and there's just a lot of people like yourself Who people like me look at you and go how could she have a hard time Dating right, but you're just not you're you're not getting yourself out there. You're not putting yourself in situations that you know You're surrounding yourself with other people are like, yeah, I really like to meet someone right and the apps are not that place Right, and so I think that step one is to kind of change your day-to-day Routine and it sounds like you have a probably a fairly structured routine and you're and you like it. It's comfortable. You're it's You know, but it's it's not it's not allowing you to meet a lot of people. Is that fair? Yeah, I guess that's fair And I guess like when I do go out I don't need anybody so that I don't feel like it's worth it to go out more. - Yeah, you're gonna have to have some patience. And then being the introverted person who's probably quiet and you're not like, you know, it's, and you probably are more intimidating than you realize to approach, you know. You're, and that's why, you know, whether it's like a co-ed, like an activity where like you are forced to talk to people rather than sitting at a table with this one girlfriend and having a one-on-conversation and looking like two girls who are having a girls night and they don't wanna be approached by a man. And as an introverted person, you have to put yourself in situations that make it easy for you because it's not easy for you to like, you know, you're probably not the person who's gonna go out and start hitting on guys. And that's just a lot harder to do. - No, I don't think so. - Yeah, no need to be that person. It's just like, it's getting out there and finding more girlfriends that are also single. And honestly, that's step one. It's just like, find more people who are in the same stage of life as you. And I think that can make it a lot easier. You know, as far as dating, yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know if there's like, I don't think you need me coaching you and like asking, you know, like, I don't know. You just, you know how to get to know people. - I guess. - Yeah. - I don't know. We'll see. It's gonna be determined. - I think you also like wanna, I think you want a little bit more of a, if possible. You know, I think you need some kind of confident boost, you know, like, you know, you're just, you're kind of like, I don't know, I'm like whatever. You know, like, like why should someone date you? What do you think you bring? - I don't know. - Yeah, if God, what do you bring the table? - I'm the table, no, that's funny. But no, I don't know, I don't know a lot, but I mean, I think I'm funny. I don't think other people think I'm funny, but I think I'm funny. - You have a dry sense of humor. You're a acquired taste, great. So you need to find someone else with a dry sense of humor, and I'm guessing you're funny in smaller groups, one on one, you know, with, right? Like you're not the funny part. You're not a stand up comedian who's walking into a bar and getting everyone to laugh. Okay, great, so you're funny, right? You appreciate a sense of humor that you jive with. Great, okay, you're looking for that. Like what do you like to do for fun? What do you, what do you want? What are the things you enjoy doing that you would love to enjoy doing with someone that you romantically liked? - Like activities. - Okay, like what? - Like anything like skiing or like going to like walks with my dog or like anything. Like things like flying games. - Okay, like what kind of games? - I don't know, like board games, tennis, like anything. - Okay, tennis, all right, so you like skiing, you like tennis, you know, or maybe there's, I don't know, maybe in your small city, there's a pickle ball. I mean, the pickle ball is a big thing, and you know, it's tennis-ish. - That's what it is. - But you know what I'm saying, back to the whole, you're gonna have to find the things that you like doing, and then you're gonna have to try to find other people who like doing them. And that just makes it easier to connect with people because it's like, oh, we're doing this activity. Walking your dog is a little different, you know. But I don't, I'm going to what, do you go to dog parks? - Yeah. - Okay, do you ever see a guy with this dog? - No. - No, okay. - No. - Okay, what's the thing about dating that makes you the most nervous? Is it just the meeting them? - Yeah, I think like all of it. Like meeting them for sure. Like I think like all of the initial stuff is very scary on my head. - Okay, it's not that scary. What's the worst thing that can happen? - Well, yeah, no, I know when you think of it like that, like nothing, like can really bad happen. Other than like, they could be a serial killer. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. You could get murdered. - Yeah, there's that. You could definitely get murdered. - For that. - Yeah, we acknowledge that. Outside of the worst case scenario. But I guess like, listen, I'm a low energy guy often. You have a low energy kind of vibration to you, which is totally okay. But I think people like you and people like me, I guess in that regard are a little harder to meet and a little harder approach. And it's gonna, you're gonna have to challenge yourself to get out there and put yourself in situations where you're a little easier to approach. And you feel a little bit more comfortable to show a little bit more higher energy, you know? Because like, you're a resting state. And I say this is a low energy kind of guy is like, doesn't just give fun and I'm sure you are. But like, you know what I'm saying, you're comfortable with, like you're clearly comfortable enough with yourself to be yourself most of the time. Which a lot of people aren't, you know? Like you don't, you don't need constant. You're not like one of those people pleasers who like you just need constant validation from people I'm guessing, right? - Not anymore, but I feel like, you know. - Well, I've been over here. - We've all been there. But like it is gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna definitely have to get out of your comfort zone. I think it's more than anything. When it comes to dating is you're gonna have to challenge yourself. There's gonna be most moment, when it comes to you dating, most of the things that I'm like, you're gonna be like, I don't know, I don't know. It's just gonna be easier for you to not. It's gonna be easier for you to stay home. It's gonna be easier for you to put on a movie. But doing nothing is not gonna get you where you wanna go. And you're just gonna, you're gonna have to, I mean, like you and I, I moved to a, when the long time, you know, I moved to Chicago. I didn't really know a lot of people. I went to the, I went to dinner by myself and set up the bar. There was a lot of like, I'm a fucking loser, thoughts going out of my head. And then I learned how to be like, you know what? I'm good for me for going out to a bar and sitting by myself. And I didn't mean, I didn't mean anyone dating that day. I mean, I mean, it's interesting interactions, but like, I just, you gotta get out. You gotta, you gotta get out of your comfort zone. - But like, find myself. - Well, you're all human, so, yeah. I mean, listen, I was a guy's a little safe for me to do that, but I don't know, just mix it up. Just try some, do some things that you would think I would never do that. Even if it is, I mean, make sure you're safe, but even if it is going to a bar on a Friday night, you don't have no plans, there's this restaurant you wanna try and you go post up at a bar and have a nice meal, you get a glass of wine, whatever. No expectations, you're not sitting there looking around hoping, you know? And most likely, you'll just be by yourself, alone at a bar and you'll go home, no big deal. That's fine, you got food, but who knows? But that's as you getting comfortable with not sitting at home and doing what you would normally do, which is nothing. And you just have to get good at exercising that muscle, which is to get out of your comfort zone and try things out. You kind of called with this lack of experience. I got married when I was young and then I was married, it wasn't great, then I got divorced, and I don't know what to do with myself. And part of that is like, you're just really comfortable with being, which is a great quality to have as so many people who aren't comfortable, you know, they're kind of chameleons. Like, you have, you got the hard part figured out, which is like, you know who you are, you know what you want. Like I'm guessing, you know, like when I went out to the bars and you know, when I was younger and I was like, shaw, and I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. Like I had to own a problem, being like, no, I'm under it. You know, I'm not a follower. There's a lot of people struggle with that. You don't struggle with that. You're struggling, your biggest challenge is yourself is to get out of your own way. And because you're so good at being like, I don't wanna do that. And you're gonna have to tell yourself, we need to do this. And it might be uncomfy. It might not get anything out of it in the short run. You're not doing it to meet people. You're doing it to just get the fuck out of the house and change things up and, you know, bring some new people and there's some new energy into your life. - Okay. - Does that sound doable? - I can do that. - Okay. - Yeah. - 'Cause that's definitely the start. I would honestly try to like look at like, what are some, what are some activities that are, you know, again, like the world's a lonely place. And I think there are more and more people are recognizing that. And there's a bit of a renaissance of people realizing we have to like get out, I don't know. I mean, and in his quarries it sounds and honestly you'll probably make your skin crawl. But like, there are speed dating events. There are, you know, there are. I, you're right. But like, just try it out. It, you do bring the girlfriend, have some fun. You don't have to take it that seriously. You just need to get the fuck out. - Yeah. - And you need to meet some people. And so you have to put yourself in situations where it's easy for someone to ask, you know, just to be a human with you. To, it, they don't have to build up the courage to say hi. They're, you're just there, you know, on the volleyball team. And then maybe there's a, some organic flirting. And maybe, you know, got, you know, like, oh, she's cute. And, you know, you're like, oh, he's cute. And I don't know. And then you go from there. Does that make sense? - Yeah, it makes sense. And the apps, you know, take them, it's, that is, it is something to do. It might work, have the lowest of expectations. And the moment a dating app makes you feel bad about yourself, stop. Take a break. - Okay. - Because that's all it does. It's, it's, it's a validation thing that's so often makes us feel worse about ourselves. And if you don't have that kind of awareness and self-confidence, which it's hard to have when it's that dating apps. And if you're like, this is, it makes me feel bad. I don't like just, just take a break. Try it out in the future, I don't know, but you should. should have the absolute lowest of expectations with dating apps. It's anything that happens is a way, I mean, truly. You'll probably call back in six months. Be like, "Yeah, I found my husband on a dating app." Anything's possible, but you need to get out there. And yeah, you need to get out of your comfort. Your biggest problem right now is you're really comfortable with your current life. And you're just, but you have a- - I love my life. - Yeah, which is great. But you need to tweak it a little bit because you don't have everything you want. - Yeah, that's fair. - So, is this helpful? I don't know, I feel like this is- - Yeah, yeah, it's kind of helpful. - Okay, well, I'll take kind of. - Yeah. - Listen, you have a lot going for you. You're obviously a catch, you're not for everyone. And you just, you have to allow people to get to know you. And you're probably difficult to get to know. - Okay, yeah. - And that's okay. - I think that's it. - I'm not easy to get to know, you know? And I don't want, I don't want, like, fuck, I don't, you know? I'm not, I'm not here to entertain people, you know what I'm saying? But like, this is because you want this. And you, there's something you don't have that you want. And it's going to require you to get out of your comfort zone and make some different choices in the short term. So that you can find your equally low energy person or someone who's a little high energy who gets it out of, you know, but find your person. You know, person that kind of is your match. And you're doing it. So, and then you guys can not go out. Once you find each other, you can not do the, you know? But it doesn't, you know, bowling, whatever, whatever the fuck, you know, try it out. Challenge yourself to mix it up. And honestly, like, you know, find more, you know, try to find some going out friends. - Okay, I can do that. - Okay, any other questions? I hope, I hope this is helpful. This is a, this is a tougher one. - No, it was helpful. Yeah, sorry. - No, no, I don't, you, you got a lot going for you. And then the, I mean, you know, like you've been married. So, you know what it's like to be in a relationship. You've certainly had a lot of practice with that. You know, certainly what you don't like. That's for sure. - Yeah, that's a step in the right direction. - That's a step in the right direction. The rest of it is just, it's a lot of, it's, again, it's sales. - That's low. - And you know, it's, and you don't like a lot of people. And you have that going for you. So, don't take it personally if someone's not, you know? - Yeah, that's true. - Yeah, that's a good thing. - Yeah. Cool? - Okay. - Yeah. - All right. Well, keep us posted. I love to know how your dating life goes. And if we've made some progress. - Okay. I'll show you how that was thought for me. - All right, all right. Good luck. You're going to be fine. - All right. - Thank you. - All right. All right. Bye-bye.