EP #97- When Life Is Bananas...Make Banana Bread with Amy Keller Laird, Former Editor-in-Chief of Women's Health Magazine and Founder of Mental

(gentle music) I think there's gotta be a radical shift in the way we look at mental health management and treatment and it's got to go beyond what's been going on. That's kind of where my idea for mental started coming where it's like, it's not just mental health over here and like everything else over here, like lifestyle or fashion or this or that. It's like, they're together, they're like all part of you. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding things in life that bring you joy and happiness. I'm your host, Stella Stephanopolis and if you've been tuning into the podcast over the past few weeks, you might have noticed that I've been interviewing a lot of writers, journalists and editors in the health and wellness space. And this week I am so excited to share my conversation with Amy Keller-Laird, who is the former editor-in-chief of Women's Health magazine and she had also served as the beauty director at Alert for quite some time. Amy is also the founder of Mental, which is a lifestyle platform and content destination focused on mental health awareness and wellbeing. In this episode, Amy talks about her own mental health struggles with OCD, her perspective on how mental health has been portrayed by the media as a health and wellness journalist and editor. We also talk about the origin story behind mental, really when inspired her to create a company and community focused on talking about these issues in particular. And something really cool that Amy dives into later is how she started the first ever mental health awards. So we get into what the purpose of that is and what you can find being featured there. Lastly, Amy shares a little bit about what brings her a bit of endorphins every day. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this episode, but before we get into it, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. (gentle music) - Hi, Amy. Thank you so much for coming on to everyday endorphins. - Thanks for having me. - I'm always so excited to get to speak with people who have built something in the health and wellness space because I think right now, more than ever, it's really such like a booming time with all these different health and wellness companies, organizations, communities popping up. So I'm just really thrilled to get to sit down with you and chat about everything that you've built with mental and also your experience in the health and wellness space. - Yeah, no, thank you. It's definitely an interesting time. There's a lot out there, but there's also a lot of, who has you know, all the scary stats coming out of COVID, of spikes in depression and anxiety and loneliness and all of this stuff. So I think it's definitely good that at least we're focusing on mental health now. A little bit more than we were in the past as a collective we. - I think COVID, like to your point, really did accelerate this conversation on mental health. I know your entire career has been in the health and wellness space as a journalist. You were formerly the editor-in-chief at Women's Health Magazine. And so if we start there, can you talk a little bit about the experience of working in the health and wellness space as a journalist and perhaps how content around mental health has evolved and shifted over the course of your career? - Yeah, absolutely. So I was the editor-in-chief of Women's Health from 2014 to 2018. And I mean, during that time, like almost no one was talking about mental health from a mainstream media perspective. That's not to negate all of the other places that we're talking about it or people talking about it individually on social media, et cetera. But it was, or if people were talking about it, it was sort of stories that would cite a bunch of statistics. It wouldn't really put a face to the situation. It was always sort of other, you know? Like, oh, this is happening to those people and that kind of thing. So I have OCD. I've always been pretty open about it, but never really publicly just because, again, like people weren't really talking about a public. It's not something I was trying to hide, but it was also something that was just sort of like, oh, well, who talks about this? So in 2016, when we were seeing all of these stats around the rise of anxiety and depression and all of these things, and particularly things affecting women, we were figuring out how can we do this at women's health? Like, how can we do a story that's more than just statistics that kind of go in one ear and you hear them and you go, oh, God, that's terrible, right? And then they go out. So I was like, what do? Let's put me in the story. I should be in the story. Like, I can be talking about having OCD, but also being the leader of a global health brand. Like, maybe there's something about doing that. And so what we ended up doing was finding 13 other women as well with diagnoses, photographing everyone, starting with a big spread that was like, which of these women has a mental illness and then flipping and being like, all of them, including me, I'm the editor of Women's Health, I have OCD, here's the deal, blah, blah, blah. And then going through and featuring stories of each of these individual women who all had different situations in life. And the rezidokter, the rephotographers, there were bloggers, there were stayed-home moms. There are all variety of lifestyle. And it was really, it kind of went viral. The media covered it. It was like, editor and chief of women as hell says she has OCD. And I mean, in a positive way, I was on the today's show, talking really gaced about it. It was kind of a really interesting thing to watch people react and also just both publicly, like people being like, thank you so much for doing this. Like, oh my god, I have this with that or it also just randomly people reaching out to me saying, oh, I have X or my child has this and is struggling with this and I really appreciate it, et cetera. And I remember we put mental health on the cover as a cover line. And that was like a big thing. Like in 2016, people just didn't do that. So we have really come a long way from a mainstream media perspective, I think. One of the big ways, we were partnered with NAMI, which is the national alliance of mental illness and doing a big survey around this. And one of the big things around mental health stigma is people do think it's another person's situation where they're like, or they have old school perceptions of what that means, right? Like, you know, we got one fool over the kukus nest is like the classic kind of movie. It's like all that stuff. And there's been actually a lot of pop culture and TV shows that have really actually shown mental health in the real way it is. And also that like, it's not the only thing about you. You know, you're not just that. It's also like, okay, I do have OCD. It does impact me in many ways, but I'm also, I have a family. I have a career. I love beauty products before a beauty editor, right? Like whatever, you know, and so, A, that's kind of where my idea for mental started coming or it's like, it's not just like mental health over here and like everything else over here, like lifestyle or fashion or this or that. It's like, they're together. They're like all part of you. I love all the points that you made, especially around how mental health is not this like other category. Really how health and our mental health and our mental wellbeing permeates in every single aspect of our lives. And I love how you've been so open about your struggles with OCD and having that really is like a cover feature and an article because I think that having that kind of representation gives permission for people to open up this dialogue, this two-way communication about their own experiences. And I think also OCD in particular is really interesting because we have a lot of coverage. And I think there's a lot of widespread knowledge about struggles with anxiety and depression. But I don't think OCD is actually spoken about as much. And one of my friends from college, a good friend of mine, actually struggled with OCD. And at first I didn't really understand. I was living with her at the time. And I didn't really like recognize that the behaviors that she was exhibiting were actually characteristic of someone who had OCD and how it also can show up in many different ways. And so I think there's still this barrier that needs to be like moved through around just having more awareness around OCD. I don't know if that's something that you've experienced or if that's something that you're starting to notice as well, just like the differences or discrepancies and the cultural awareness around issues like anxiety and depression versus a mental illness like OCD. - Yeah, I know it's really interesting, I think, in some ways OCD has been the socially acceptable mental health illness because people think it's like, "Oh, that quirky OCD person, right? Oh, she's counting. Oh, ha ha ha." Like she wants me to wash my hands, you know? And so it kind of gets framed as this. Quirky is the word I would use because people are like, just, "Oh, that's so quirky," or even people's family members or friends will like make fun of you. I mean, literally one time at New Year's Eve. And this is like two decades, I mean not two decades, but like 15 years ago, like I'm out of New Year's Eve party with friends who know I have OCD. And like one of them like was handing me a beer and was like, lick the bottle of the beer and then went like this. And I was like, like I have contamination OCD, like, "Oh, that, I don't, I will not drink your drink." Like, and it's not 'cause like I'm just weird or like it's quirky, like that will set off my whole thing. And so I mean, A, it ruined my New Year's Eve, but B, it's like, "Do come on, like really? Like if there was someone here with diabetes, would you be making jokes about insulin?" I constantly try to like frame it that way, people will get it. It's sort of like, I have this thing and that's a harp on diabetes. My God. But like, it's like when people are like, just calm down, like stop worrying about it. It's like, would you tell someone with diabetes to just stop making, like, start producing insulin? You know, it's like, you cannot. So, I mean, of course, you can get treatment and I have therapy. I take medication. I do calms down things, right? And I have a manageable form, right? I can get through life. But I think the other thing about OCD is people think of it in the ways it has been shown in the media, like monk or whatever, you know, that show. And it's like, it's, it's often around handwashing. It's or it's like, I'm so neat. I'm personality. I mean, I always think that guy from in your maybe too young for this, but there's that classic Julie Roberts movie sleeping with the enemy. And he organizes all his soup cans and like, she knows he's stalking her back in the house because like all the towels are like even and it's like, and anyway, I always think about that because that's what people think OCD is like, oh, yeah, you're going in. And like, I am the messiest person in the world. And I was the beauty director of the law. We have this picture of me like, inundated by like caves of beauty products and like press releases. And like, I'm so messy, but like I'm terrified of germs. So it's like, it's like, there's a dis a non understanding where like people know about like the checking version of OCD, right? Where you're like, I have to recheck the stove. I have to like, do the light switch five times, right? I'm like, worried that I left the flat iron on or whatever. But then there's like the other forms of OCD, which are like intrusive thoughts, which are like, nobody wants to talk about those, you know, like where like really weird things pop to your mind. And you're like, oh my god, am I an evil person? Because I just thought this thing and it's those that's like where OCD can become just, you know, disabling. I mean, it can in many ways. But and so, you know, there's an account I follow about around OCD and they're regularly talking about that, about how like, all everybody's all about OCD, you know, awareness, whatever, until we start talking about these scary intrusive thoughts that come through that are about like, you know, people can have thoughts of violence and this and that and things they would never do in their own life. And the like, the thought that it popped in is like completely traumatizing to them. That's part of OCD. And so I do think to your point, like that doesn't get explored a lot. And, yeah, I think anxiety is probably like, people feel more comfortable discussing like having anxiety and to a certain extent, depression. I think people will discuss it and say like, oh, I'm depressed for this and that happened. But then when it comes down to like, I have in shower for three weeks, like, I'll have people tell me that behind the scenes, but like, they're never saying it in the front or people who take, you know, some people who have anxiety or depression take what's known as an anti-psychotic, but because, which is a drug, right? They don't have psychosis, but because of the stigma around even that word, they don't want to say, you know, I had a writer writing a piece and she was like, oh, I don't want to say I take an anti-psychotic. I'll just say it's an SSRI. You know, and like, that's fine. Like, nobody should disclose what they don't want to just close, but I think that just shows that even though we've come a long way, there's like a long way to go, where like, then someone's like, oh, you're, you have psychosis. And it's like, there's just so many, you know, so many misconceptions and people just, I think one of the most frustrating things is when people think they know what they're talking about, they're not aware what that even means. And yet they go around spewing, of course, misinformation, which is, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I also want to go back to something that you mentioned a bit earlier, where you were drawing this analogy between, you know, your experience at the New Year's Eve party and someone handing you like this contaminated drink and then comparing this to like, someone who suffers with diabetes and is like, oh, just like, go produce more insulin, right? I think there's this misunderstanding or perhaps like, I think a lot of people kind of don't approach mental illness and struggles with mental health in a very compassionate way. So if someone is not struggling with something, they're just like, oh, well, you know, do these things and just, you know, you'll feel better immediately. Like I think there's still this kind of, I skewed coverage in a sense of the things that you can do to lead a healthier life. Like, I think people just want to like be very prescriptive and say, okay, well, if you get enough sleep and you drink enough water and you eat a balanced diet, you should feel better automatically. And it's like, yeah, to a certain extent, that's super important. Like, you need that, at least like, fundamental foundational things to better your health. But that's not going to cut it for everyone, especially if you're really depressed and it's like, you can, you know, it's that difficult for you to just get out of bed in the morning. So, you know, and I think also this kind of ties into maybe some of the, like, the North Star, the guiding principles or like the, the ethos really behind mental, like making these conversations about mental health more accessible and coming at it with a really compassionate perspective. So, can you talk a little bit about the inspiration behind mental and firstly starting out with, you know, the name? I love kind of the meaning behind the name and why you ended up choosing it. Yeah, I mean, I, mental, the word mental has always been used as a purgeurative term and as a like, oh, so mental, you know, it's like, okay, I am, you know, fine. I feel like the way to take the steam out of that is just be like, you're right. I'm also physical. Like what, I don't know, I have a brain and a body. So, it's kind of like, I'm just taking that word back, like nothing wrong with it and also like, yeah, you know, I, it's, it's funny to me, like, I made some video on TikTok and someone was like, you clearly have a mental illness. Literally, they were saying that not related to OCD or something, it was like me describing something and I was like, I do, I do, you're right. And so, I think, like, to me, the next step in like normalizing the conversation and it is actually making it really normal. Actually, just being like, you're right, I meant it, like, what? Okay, like that's not an insult. When we can get to that point where people can like stop using it as an insult, I think we'll be in a much better place. And I think, yeah, also something about it's like, oh, just deep breathe. I mean, dude, like, yes, deep breathing works. And like, if I'm like in a just general anxious state and I do actually do like some deep breath, of course, it helps. Like, there's a million studies showing this, but like, if you're depressed laying in your bed, you like deep breathing is not like curing your problems. Okay? Like, you need therapy, you probably need medication, you need community, you need all of these things, et cetera. And so, yeah, I think I think those the platitudes, those platitudes of wellness, like, just think happy thoughts. It's sort of like, that actually makes people feel worse. Like, studies have proven this. Like, I wrote a story a long time ago, actually for self magazine called like wellness Instagrams, bringing me down because it was literally like, scroll after scroll of all these like toxic positivity posts that people were putting up. Or just, you know, like, if you think it, you can do, it's like, actually where I have problems or in my thoughts, like, telling me to do that or, you know what, telling someone with anxious, rooming thoughts to go meditate, maybe not the best idea. Like, their thoughts are the problem. They need to distract or they need to do xyz. So, I think we're a little bit beyond that. Like, I think people have come to start realizing and there's been a lot written and talked about around toxic positivity. There's also toxic gratitude, which I think people are starting to realize now that like, of course, gratitude is important. And like, it is proven to like, help your mental health to be grateful, but it has also proven that when you are shamed into feeling grateful about every single thing you do in life, or like, a horrible thing happens and instead you should feel grateful because you still have xyz. It's like that shuts down the normal emotional process of being able to grieve or have sadness or feel grateful, but also crappy, you know. Yeah, I really love, you know, first of all, I actually had never heard of the term like toxic gratitude or toxic gratitude practices, but it makes sense, especially with what you're just talking about around like, if something bad happens to you and you like need to kind of like feel that experience, that emotion, but someone's like, well, just think about like all the things you should be grateful for and all the things that are great. Like, maybe the intention is well, like, refocusing your perspective, putting things into perspective, like recognizing that there are things in life that are good and that you can feel gratitude for, but that shouldn't attract from that lived experience of moving through whatever pain or sorrow or discomfort that you're feeling. Yeah, particularly in the moment, right? It's like, give me a minute to experience the negative feelings. It's okay. And then like, once I can get out of that, then maybe I can have some perspective, but at the same time, why do we have to invalidate things that happen by saying, but you've also, you have that over there. It's like, that's true, but like, this also exists. Right. And that's, you know, really interesting you mentioned that because something I've been thinking a lot about recently is kind of like the, the tension between like two truths that can exist at the same time. Like, you can feel upset and stressed and angry or whatever emotion you want to prescribe to that feeling. And that can be true while at the same time, you can still have this good and great thing in your life. And one shouldn't necessarily negate the other. Yeah, I mean, I actually recently did a post that was like, you can feel gratitude and it was like, there's an either or there's an either or a thing that we have going on in life where we think, right, like you just said, it's one or the other. And often it's happy and sad together, you know? It's like you're happy about X, you're sad about this, or you're happy and sad about the same thing for various reasons. And that's like normal human emotion. I think inside out that Disney movie, like perfectly explains it, like such an incredible movie, really. I think about just the way in which we deal with our emotions, we process, we move through the world. But when we think about what we're talking about, like this juxtaposition between this good emotion and then this emotion that doesn't feel so great at the same time, how do you try to walk that tightrope or give yourself the compassion and gratitude or the compassion and grace for being able to like recognize those two truths at once and like letting that help with your healing and move forward. For me, I'm just like a walking emotion. It comes out, it does its thing. I happen to like, like things will affect me really quickly and then I'll be like, "I have anything sucks in this and that." And like 30 minutes later, I'm like, "Back, I'll be like, "Okay, now I'm doing this." That's like my personal situation. I mean, that's how I am personally. I just think everybody is different and people look at, and I think we're now understanding healing's not linear, right? These stages of grief that we've seen or whatever, it's not like you go like, "I checked off A, now I'm to B, now I'm to C, it's like they mesh, they go back." They come away. If things happen, that's just what happens. And I think the more you know that that's a normal process, the more you can feel self-compassion and allow yourself to feel as it happens. It sucks, right? You want to be like, "But I already felt sad for three months." Like, "I'm done. I want to move on." Sadly, sometimes that's not true. And I think also allowing yourself to feel happy when you feel happy, even if something bad has happened, right, versus like feeling guilty that you could also be happy is important to understand that like you're not a bad person just because you can also feel joy or whatever it is excitement about another thing in your life that's going well. So I think it's more just like realizing. Like once you realize that it's okay and it's actually completely normal, I know like this is how everyone deals with things, even if they're just not outwardly showing it, then you can be like, "Oh, okay, I'm okay. I am. Yeah, it's a great point. I think it really takes like that moment of realization and also recognizing that it's a universal experience. Like everyone feels this way and everyone is kind of constantly moving through these periods of good or not so great in their life and having some sense of compassion for that. I want to go back a little bit to the creation of mental. So we talked a little bit about the name, but can you talk a little bit more about the significance behind the banana symbol? Because I know that is really integral to the brand, the community, and I also think that's such a clever symbol to bring into what you're building. Yeah, no. I mean, right? So our tagline is because life is bananas, you know? And it sort of started when we first did the first women's health story and we were talking about the word crazy and how everyone refers to people is crazy. And it's really hard to not use that word. I mean, even though I, like we did an entire piece about it and I've been immersed in this space forever, like I say the word so often. And I've come to the place where I'm like, we don't need to be the world world police here, right? And if I want to call it a situation crazy, I'm like going to give myself some grace that like, that's just okay. But like I try not to refer to a human being that way because what is crazy? I like, I don't even know what it means anymore. You know what I mean? Like, no. And so in an attempt to be like, what, how else could we talk about that situation or whatever, how else could we, you know, frame a situation that's really wild or tough or, you know, it's like trying to find adjectives here. And I was speaking at a event and I was talking about having OCD and another speaker came up and he was like, I think college student. And afterwards we started talking and he said, I, when I'm feeling things are like out of control, I am like, wow, that's bananas. And I was like, oh, so interesting. And then like years later, I started thinking like, you know, the banana is really an interesting fruit. Not to be super weird and making strange metaphors here, but like the banana is yellow. It's very happy, right? You look at a banana and you're like, that's a happy color. Like color theory will tell me that. But it also goes bad real fast. It gets splotches. It's, you know, whatever. It doesn't look so pretty. But then you're like, what in that state, that's when you make the best banana bread. And so like, it's a little dorky, but it's sort of like the banana is almost like a metaphor for the human, right? You can be both of those things or you can be in a state like this and then you're in a state like this. And in those states, you're worthy and you're creating something you are who you are and you can still create something worthy and wonderful. And so I think it just has dual meaning in kind of summing up the fact that like life is bananas. I mean, it just is like things happen every day. Look at the world situation right now, my lord. And, you know, then like, okay, I'm a banana. I just am a banana. I love that because also bananas are my favorite fruit. So I think it's the perfect symbol to have really integral to mental. I also think it really speaks to this point around how life just is bananas. Like you cannot control what's going to happen around you. No matter like where you fall, I guess along this. Yeah. I call it like a mental health spectrum. Like if you're chronically suffering with a condition or an illness and you need to seek out multiple forms of treatment or you're even more mild case of, you know, about some anxiety or stress and generally like doing okay. No matter where you fall along that spectrum and no matter how your brain is wired or, you know, your predisposition to certain mental health, illnesses or conditions, you cannot control what's going to happen outside of you. So I think that's why it's so important that people continuously build on their skills and their like internal toolkits to have, you know, to be equipped with dealing with things and life gets challenging because you can't predict on that happens. Yeah. 100% and then I think the other thing about the banana is you just don't normally come to a mental health side and see a dripping banana. Like so the goal is for you to be like, oh, it, oh. There's a dripping banana here. Oh, we're talking about mental health in a different way here. And that is the purpose of mental to be like, it doesn't need to be super somber every time we mention the word mental health. Well, but it, you know, it, it's like it can have, you know, that's not to negate the seriousness of a mental health condition, but human beings, you know, still can have mental health conditions and be talking in a very normal way and they cuss and they laugh and they think things are funny and they do x, y, z and they might want to see photographs that aren't black and white like dripping in the rain. But because when, you know, it's like when you look up, if you get in and like a stock photography site and you type in depression, I mean, I've done TikToks and videos of this. It's like, oh my god. Like now I feel way worse. Like it's literally always like a person in a fetal position, a person like the rain coming down the hand. Oh, and you're like that, not that that's not true, right? Like sometimes you're in the fetal position, but like what is this hand on the window in the rain? I like, who was that? Like where is like just like the person sitting on their death couch, like or the person at work or like the person with their kids, you know, like that doesn't come up. And so I think that's again part of like we have to show people in just the wide spectrum of how they look and how they look in normal life and like, can we have some like color here because yes, your mood might be gray, but you have this full life and I don't, I don't find it helpful or inspiring to just see like all these like sad photos. So you know, everyone's not going to agree with me, but like that is that is my perspective and that's where I bring, I think mental health and lifestyle together, you know, my background before I became a health journalist was as a beauty editor for a decade. And so I am also attuned to that and like fashion photography and this and that and right with what, and by that I don't mean like, you know, super models. I just mean like more artistic photography or things that are more, you know, it's, we don't have to be so literal with the, with the photograph, like it doesn't have to be like, you're in a doctor's office. It's like, we know what it looks like to be in a doctor's office. Like, can I just look at a page that doesn't make me want to cry? So yeah, you know, that's, that's how I think of, you know, photography and tone of voice and like, let's talk, let's, let's just be frank here. Yeah, I mean, I think it also speaks to this reality that, you know, not everything is what meets the eye. Like that's not exactly what you see on the outside is not very indicative usually of what someone might be feeling on the inside. a very powerful thing to think about because I think it makes you just question like really like how is someone feeling at a given moment and you know I go back and forth with my thoughts on the question like how are you because obviously most you know if you someone asks you that question you're gonna say I'm fine or like I'm okay or you know if things are fine you know how are you but it doesn't really kind of capture the full essence of how is a person doing and I don't think it like I think some people are trying to like rephrase that question to like have a more open-ended discussion every time someone asks you like how are you doing but I don't think that like render like I think there's a time in a place to kind of open up that dialogue like of course if you're closer with a person you're gonna be more willing to express how you're really feeling versus like meeting someone for the first time if you ask like this deep question you're most likely not gonna get you know a very deeper response but I think it goes to show really just that the way people do portray themselves on the outside isn't always reflective of how they feel internally so again like pushing the conversation the narrative around just opening up that dialogue is is so important and I know that you recently launched the first mental health awards ever which is so cool can you talk a little bit more about the mental health awards really like the inspiration behind this and how it all kind of came to fruition yeah I mean I was I've been thinking a lot about you know one of the things we have on the site is a section called Goodbyes which are lifestyle beauty home whatever products that people who have particular mental health conditions have said help them get throughout their day they are not a replacement for therapy they're not a cure they are not a fix fix the situation but it's like people you know it started with me thinking I you know anytime I'm traveling I don't like my shoes to touch my clothes and my luggage so like I have to have a shoe bag what's a cool shoe bag right what's the coolest shoe bag one of our contributing editors has Trica tilomania which is the a disorder where you pull out your hair it's anxiety related so CD related actually and she's always been wearing turbans and I was like she was like why do you think I wear these turbans all the time because I like have picked out my hair there and I'm like oh I thought you're just super chic you know like cool and so it's like oh and then a woman I know who has bipolar told me she buys the same ever lane turtleneck in eight colors because it can just can cause it and can make her life easier when she wakes up again it's not like curing anything but it's like wait hang on just like deep breathing just like you know drinking a cold beverage when you're freaking out everyday products can be management tools for mental health that's what I started thinking about and so I was like but what I don't want to do is just offer up a bunch of like skin creams and candles and blah blahs and more lavender candles you know we all know you know we've actually proven to help um but you would need an essential oil candle that's basically all lavender to really get the effect you wouldn't just get a perfume that has like a note of lavender in it and be like I'm calm you know I think that's been the way it's been reported before or when people do roundups of mental health products if we get a lot of gratitude sweatshirts and things like that and there's like so much cool mental health merch I don't want to discount that like you know what I mean there's like trauma bonded bestie necklaces like I want that you know like there are things that are like you know there's so much cool stuff tote bags with things you know that but that's not what I that's not what these are right so to me I wanted to create an entire awards for the products that are going to really be able to serve as management tools everyday management tools for mental health so we interviewed 17 experts including people you know psychologists psychiatrist dentists um makeup bars hairstyles etc and then we broke it down into the categories of things that if you have a mental health condition or you know just general stress or anxiety or whatever it is that that's the like through that length right so the categories are like don't tell me to calm down but I probably should right so things that have been proven by studies to actually have an effect on your cortisol levels um there's a section called quick clean which is literally based on the concept of what we were talking about earlier if you are too depressed to get in the shower or to brush your teeth what this is the mouthwash ingredient not that we want to be using this forever right we'll get gum disease but like if you are in a sting this mouthwash has this ingredient in it that is going to keep the most bacteria away and it's going to keep your gums as healthy as possible or you know these are the best wipes as vetted by like a top dermatologist and you can use this on your body and it's going to be safe and things like that and another category that I thought was really interesting and I've never seen it covered this way we're sort of like side effects of mental health medication it causes a lot of mental health medications across the spectrum cause a lot of similar things whether it be dry mouth dry skin um issues with you know orgasm or desire um things like that and so it's like okay well like what's the best you know vibrating tool that's really going to actually work like talk to an OBGYN what are the products that really actually can help with dry eye right there's this heat up mask that ophthalmologist regularly recommend to people that you put in the microwave and you put it on I mean it's not it is it's kind of late but it's kind of cool I think I wrote in like a blade runner sort of way and sort of like okay I could see that you know um I have been prescribed that before for my dry eye and like when you I you would have never heard of it before you know what I mean or there's another category but like what do you do if you pick at your skin people who have the condition dermatillomania which is where you pick at your skin okay well they want to cover their where they have picked their skin or they need to heal it right what is the lotion and it's actually this product called sarna you know it's a it's not a super glamorous lotion but like it it's an analgesic it will soothe the skin it will not irritate it further what concealer can you use it doesn't have alcohol that isn't going to irritate you that doesn't have a ton of fillers okay guess what it's this one um you know the beauty industry has been coming out with a lot of these things called hydrocolyte patches which are little things that people will put on a zit and it either has medication in it to reduce the zit or it's just literally a little thin patch that covers the wound and you can put concealer over it well hydrocolyte patches started as in hospitals as wound healing and so what has happened those they've been become marketed for acne which they work very well for but no one is talking about on their packaging like oh it's also for you like scabs from like if you picked your skin and so you kind of only find this information like in the bowels of reddit or like you're like oh someone's being like well I pick my skin can I use this can suck is this like is this gonna inflame it and so it's like oh my god okay it's like we need to be talking about this like what are what what is safe what is vetted like let's look at the research and also you know so that's what that that's what this is right it's it's products every day products that can help you get through the day you know one of the most interesting things I think I saw from this was a study found that blue light blocking glasses you know and it's like we all know the blue light is emitted from screens and from phones and whatever and it can mess with your sleep and etc but but it can also if you block blue light and you have bipolar disorder it can according to a study significantly reduce panic episodes it's like what blue like glasses or like a side of freck free way to help with bipolar it's that kind of like revelation that you find like deep in these studies and I'm like a you know clinical study nerd at heart like really I love finding that stuff and so I wanted it to be as legit as possible and I also I ran best of beauty awards for a lower for five years and I also worked at good housekeeping on the seal of approval so I'm really used to an award so I know how to do an awards show here I mean I just to do one this legitimate right and so that was the goal and I think it at first it was hard for people to understand what it was like literally everyone thought it was going to be a bunch of candles you know or sweatshirts or whatever like I would tell people to be like I don't get it and then I'd be like it's here's what it is like there I think it's a new idea to really think of products as management tools in that way because people either have discounted it or it you know things have been written about sort of in a very almost like this kind of way and it's like I don't want to discount that either right because like if you find any beauty product or skin cream or fragrance or whatever that you like and you're using it and it makes you happy like that's worthy too it's just for me I wanted to make sure that these were all literally based in uh expert advice or or data what I love about it is that I think it's such an innovative and novel way of thinking really about how we interact with the products that we use every day or our routines and how it is either a byproduct of the mental illnesses that we face or is you know part of our routine because of what we experience and I just think that you know it also kind of reminds me a little bit about personalized care and medicine in a way because you're you're offering like very targeted solutions or better alternatives for a very specific problem or a very specific pain point that someone with some sort of mental illness might be experiencing. It's kind of like I put my business hat on for a second, like you're walking along the customer journey or like the profile of someone who experiences, you know, OCD or anxiety or depression or whatever it is or bipolar disorder. And some of the more like niche not as much talked about mental health conditions. So I just I think it's so clever and I love that you're doing this and you are very well versed in putting on award show. So I have no doubt that this is going to continue to be such a success. What is next for mental and how do you envision your community to evolve maybe in the next few years? I mean, I have a lot of grand visions. Let's see how it all goes. But you know, one thing, you know, I definitely want it to go beyond, you know, a content destination, right? We know that like community support is so important, but it's like how do we form those communities and how do we make sure they're safe communities and you know, there's there's a thing I I call a spiral buddy, which is I have one for myself when I'm like out, you know, getting the manicure and I get cut at the salon. And I think I'm going to get a disease and frankly, actually, there was just a story and people about a woman who like got a disease from getting an ill cut. So now I'm like, oh my god, Google page one search results are going to show me that I actually the fear is bounded now. But okay, whatever. So I'm like getting the manicure, I get the cut. I got a person who like knows that it's okay for me to text them and say like, I'm making out and then they kind of talk me down, you know, and it's not like. So I'm like, there's this concept of having a spiral buddy, I think is, you know, is something, how could we bring that, you know, into into a bigger group, like can we set people up together, right? Obviously, though you want to be safe about it, and we don't want it to be about it's not for when people are in a severe situation, right? And you need to call a crisis line for that. It's something different. I also, to me, I think of, you know, our name is mental, but our site URL is club mental. And what if there were club mentals, what if there are physical club mentals and there were war hall bananas hanging in the background. I mean, I'm like, would that change the way people thought of therapy because one of the reasons people don't go to therapy is because of stigma still like that's still true. Even though like those of us who've like been in therapy, you're like, we live in New York and everyone seems to be in therapy or everyone's talking about it and you're like, what do you mean there's no stigma, there is so much stigma still. And so what if like you're just walking down the street or like next to like, you know, H&M, there's a club mental, and you kind of walk in and there's a banana on the wall and there's a pink chair and I don't know, I mean, I don't know if it's pink, but like, you know what I mean? I think there's a paradigm shift that could happen in the way people even get treated therapeutically. And so that's what grand down the road. And let's see, but I, you know, it's really all of it relates back to like, I think there's got to be a radical shift in in the way we look at mental health management and treatment and it's got to go beyond what's been going on because it's not like an and part of this is our health care system. Disparities, you know, people growing up in different communities and not having family support or being from already, you know, marginalized communities and then having mental health on top of it. So please, I don't want to just count any of that, but I do think if we can change the way in which we look at like treating mental health and bringing it into these everyday things. I mean, it really can make people be like, Oh, right, it's just part of my day. I walk down the street. I got a blow out a dry bar and then I went to club mental for 30 minutes to talk about like my anxiety. I mean, I see it. And I think that's hopefully where the future is trending. And really it's like that integration part. How do we bring mental health care more at the forefront of like this community that we're talking about. Hopefully we'll achieve that because I I would like to be in a future where that's very much present. So I'm just really inspired by what you're doing and what you're building and the words that you launched and I can't wait to continue to keep following along your journey. My final question to you, Amy is like question that I ask every guest that comes onto the podcast and it's very integral to really the theme of everyday and orphans seeking out the simple pleasures in life. Those small moments that just bring you joy. So my final question to you is what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day. Well, my kids, you know, I have two kids. They're at funny eight. If not funny, but like amazing ages right now once 13 and like has become so sarcastic and it's hilarious to hear the sarcasm. He loves horror movies and we watch horror movies together and we're like watching Annabelle together and like I there's just so much joy in like. Now like we were experiencing things we literally watch child play the other day was hilarious and the other one is like a builder and like make these marble written mazes like rude goldbergs and I'm just like watching him do this and he also rattle off. Literally, I mean this he needs to get on Jimmy Kimmel. He this brings me so much joy. You can give him any country in the world and he will tell you what the flag looks like. He'll be like it's blue on the top. Then there's a stripe like this and then down the side there are three stars. It is a party trick. So I like that like I can't like that brings me joy. I mean what brings me joy candy crush. I still play candy crush. It is like my distraction method at the end of the day. I like an Oatlata and oh cappuccino from like my local place. I don't know I find you know what I was thinking about this too you know what's one funny thing when you're beauty editor and you get sent everything in the world. You know what you start getting excited about when people send you razors into your because you're like that is like such a mundane thing but like I need that razor that's the sign me razors. So like I I I am definitely a person who is like like I have a weird like child like like love of like little kitty things and I mean I also like to give it one final thing and this is so anti mental health. But like if you have a tick tock taken off I mean like that's a hit of endorphins. We know that's like negative that we should get into our social media likes but I had one video go viral about Gen X and I was like what does this person. Lots of things bring endorphins. I mean I can relate to the whole tick tock thing. I guess it's really dopamine. Honestly which can be kind of bad. I probably an endorphin right I know it's totally dopamine so but I get it because one of my tick tocks semi went viral and it was about this like quote from white lotus about endorphins and it's funny because it's about like sex. But and of course people of that because people of anything that talks about that but I I definitely had a semi endorphin rush from seeing all the news. I know I don't want to admit it because I mean like we know this is like a thing we have to step away from but also you know who brings endorphins Jennifer Coolidge I mean exactly. I was watching that notice using two last night. I was just like ladies who I don't know whatever she says anything can come out of her mouth. I know she was she is funny. I mean now I'm seeing like DJs use the white lotus theme and soundtrack is like mixes and mashups with other songs and it's just like I feel like it's becoming this like cultural like icon of a show. I mean like I tick tock YouTube all these things are bringing back also a lot of songs from like the 80s and 90s like take on me. There's like 80 versions of that there's a version of that where she but he knew just makes the noises like. I mean the way tick tock is dominating the music industry could be an entirely separate podcast episode but there is truth to that statement around seeing things kind of blow up online like that is a big endorphin rush. And you know I just love those like really quirky unique facts about your kids because that I think those are the things that parents just like love and savor about their children and like that is truly like such an endorphin thrill. I love really all of your answers and just such a pleasure to get to have you on the podcast Amy where can my listeners follow along and connect with you. Yeah no thank you so much and club mental calm and we're on social media we're on Instagram at club underscore mental tick tock Facebook linked in everywhere else is just club mental. Thank you so much it was such a pleasure having you on the podcast thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of every day endorphins if you liked what you heard make sure to like rate and review this podcast on whichever platform you prefer. You can also follow along the every day endorphins Instagram account to stay up to date with episodes future events and all things related to mental health while being in happiness. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things in life that bring you joy every day until next time. [Music]