EP #95- Exploring Well + Good's Top Wellness Trends Report for 2023 with Erica Sloan, Lifestyle Editor at Well + Good

(gentle music) If you look at the report now in the past 12 years, it's evolved so much to the point where the report is compiling industry trends and data to look at what we think overarchingly across the board are the big trends in the wellness space with wellness being really broadly defined as anything that supports someone's journey toward their wellbeing. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday in Dorfins, a mental health podcast that focuses on the importance of finding joy and happiness and daily living. I'm your host, Stella Stefnopoulos, and this week I have the opportunity to interview Erica Sloan, who is a lifestyle editor at Well & Good, which is one of the leading health digital publications that focuses on what it means to live a well life inside and out. I love all of the content that Well & Good shares on its platform, but something that really caught my eye recently is the release of Well & Good's annual Wellness Trends report. In this episode, Erica talks about the origin story behind the report, what its purpose is, and we also do a deep dive into some really interesting wellness trends for 2023, like the term wellness travel and mental fitness. We also talk about how Erica got into the health and wellness space as a journalist, what really sparked her passion for this type of content, her philosophy at large on health, wellness, and happiness, and what brings Erica a bit of endorphins every day. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this episode, but before we dive right in, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. And if you like this episode, feel free to DM me. I wanna hear from all of you, especially because I am making these episodes and producing this content to inspire and educate and empower my listeners to get excited about finding things that bring a bit of endorphins every day. Hi, Erica. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me Stella. So excited to be here. I love connecting with Washoe Alums. It was so exciting for me to find out that you also went to Washoe and it's funny how I think we both landed in wellness spaces, 'cause I personally did not study anything related, really to kind of what I'm doing now. And I'm curious to hear what you studied at Washoe and how you got into the health and wellness space. Totally. I also had a circuitist path that wasn't exactly clear based on what I studied. So to take us back to starting at Washoe, I initially knew that I loved the school. Academically it was the best school I got into. I was thrilled to go, but I didn't really have a direction in terms of my major when I got there. And funnily enough, I joined the school paper off the bat and instantly was like, I love this. I love journalism, I love writing. And quickly found out that Washoe does not have a journalism major and didn't make sense for me to say at this school, all of these questions kind of came up freshman year. And instantly I thought, I love this place, I love the teachers I've met so far, I have to figure out a way. So I essentially wanted to choose a major where I knew I'd be doing a lot of writing and a lot of critical thinking. So political science at the time is what I chose and what I was interested in, which became very interesting over the course of my college career because of what happened in 2016 and 2017 as I was a political science major, but I digressed. So I chose political science and I chose a writing minor in order to fill my schedule with as much writing as possible. And from there, my extracurriculars were all related to writing too. So I kind of told myself that I would workshop this collection of major and minor and extracurriculars into something that resembled journalistic experience as I was moving through college and of course, internships as well. And then in terms of health and wellness, this was really a personal journey for me that didn't coincide with my professional journey until pretty recently. I've always been personally invested in my own health and wellness. I have a doctor for a dad and a pharmaceutical rep for a mom. So it was something that early on was a part of my life. And for the first 15 years of my life, I pursued ballet pretty rigorously. And so as a dancer, I was constantly for better and for worse in tune with my own body and thinking about my body, not so much mental health, which came later, but thinking physically about my body. Yeah, throughout that period of my life and then into college more recreationally. And then when I graduated, I bounced around a little bit and one of my first journalism jobs was at prevention, which is a health magazine. And really was foreshadowing what would later come in my career, which is this role several years later at Well and Good, which really combined the best of what I loved about journalism, which was really the narrative, the long form reporting, not necessarily the news breaking element. I always loved life style content for the fact that you could speak to lots of people, create a narrative and a story and have a perspective. And so I was able to get that, but also the health and wellness element of what Well and Good stands for and combine them into a role, which to me was more satisfying than just being a lifestyle journalist or just being a health reporter, reporting on health news. So it was a little bit of both of those things that came together in my current role. Yeah, I love that. And as you were sharing your story and your experiences, I couldn't help but draw some similarities also with my own, where I also minored in creative writing at school. And I loved the element of creative nonfiction. I thought that was really fascinating. And then when I was younger, I also did ballet. And I didn't pursue it as rigorously as you. I did it until maybe eight or nine, but I was, I loved dancing and then I was really into fitness through being a rower. So I think there's a lot to be said when you're young and exposed to sports and physical activity, how that can really shape your mentality around like how you tune into your body and then also recognizing how our mental and our physical health are so intertwined. And to your point about lifestyle content, I also personally find it so fascinating because I think that area of journalism in particular is helping people stay informed about choices that can make to better their health and wellness. And as we've seen now over the past few years, especially with COVID, that's, I feel like that's been more important than ever, getting people to really think about health from so many different angles, which has been really interesting to me because when we think about this pandemic, we've been living in, we think about maybe how it's affecting our physical health, but there's so many articles that have been published out there around the effects of loneliness on our mental health and just so many other aspects to this experience that we've been living in that have been really affecting our mental wellbeing. - Totally, 100%. I think that when I joined the Well and Good team, it was such an interesting time to do so because of the overall environment, the climate that we were in with COVID, it was around, so I joined the team in May of 2021. And this was around the time that everyone was getting vaccinated, I was, it felt like a new beginning to me to be back out in the world. And it was also around the time that experts were talking for the first time about the secondary pandemic is what people were calling it to me of mental health. Suddenly, oh, we are on the other side or not quite, but we're moving toward the other side physically of the pandemic. And suddenly, we're getting research and studies are coming back on the actual effects of being quarantined, stay at home orders. People in college like yourself during the pandemic, the mental health crisis and teens and in adolescence, all of this was coming to a head as I was starting my role. And it really has been something that has infiltrated so much of our coverage even beyond our health vertical. So something that, you know, I'm covering in lifestyle and we're thinking about in fitness and we're thinking about in food. It's really a common thread across the site. - Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned that there's these different verticals that well and good covers, like lifestyle, fitness, food. Do they all fall under the health and wellness umbrella at well and good? Can you talk a little bit more about the distinction? - Yeah, that's a great question. And it is confusing a little bit because we are called well and good. So I always like to clarify from the outset, the overarching nature of the content is health and wellness content, 100%. And so we always say that everything we do has a wellness hook, so every single article has some connection in some way to some element of wellness. So that is the theme that separates us from a general lifestyle website and allows us to have our own niche. But within that, there are verticals just for the sake of organizing the site and organizing the content really because there is a lot of cross vertical work that we do. But yes, there are verticals. They are lifestyle, which is the one that I'm in, beauty, fitness, food, and health. And lifestyle is often the one that people are like, what's that? Because I name the other verticals. And it's like, OK, that basically covers it. But the way I like to describe the lifestyle vertical is, in one way, I catch all for all of the elements of daily wellness that don't necessarily fall into one of the other verticals directly. But also a way to cover these different aspects of our day, things like sleep, even mental health and holistic wellness, travel, career wellness, sex and relationships, astrology, these elements that certainly impact your spiritual health, your mental health, and even your physical health, but aren't necessarily health reporting, for example, or fitness in terms of mobility or a class you could take or food in terms of the food you eat. They're more so these lifestyle elements. It really is the best term for it, despite the fact that it's a mushy term. So it is, yeah, like the ones I've named, sleep, sex, relationships, astrology, travel, career, finances, financial wellness, also fitting into that. So you could tack wellness onto each of those things that I just named, and that's how we approach it. Yeah, I love that. It's kind of like an all-encompassing term. And I've always really been drawn to lifestyle content in particular as well, because I think you can find whatever works for you within that umbrella term. And there's always so many interesting articles I find specifically in lifestyle, and not to say that there aren't interesting articles in food or fitness, because there definitely are. And I've definitely browsed some of those articles as well if I'm looking for a great at-home workout to do or a new recipe, but I find that there's such diversity of content in the lifestyle section. And I know that every year, well-in-good releases an annual Wellness Trends report. And I know that you're responsible primarily for the health and self-care sections for this report. But before we dive into more of the specifics and what the Wellness Trends have been reported for for 2023, I want to ask you some questions really around what the nature of this report is. Totally. It has changed so much in the years since Well-in-Goods founding. So at the beginning, when Well-in-Good first started, which was in 2010, and for those first few years, it really was a report to say, here in these markets where we exist like New York and LA, here are the coolest, hottest, new Wellness classes, Fitness classes, studios to go to, the best green juice, the best yoga pants, things like that. And of course, if you look at the report now in the past 12 years, it's evolved so much to the point where now the report is compiling industry trends and data to look at what we think overarchingly across the board are the big trends in the Wellness Space with Wellness being really broadly defined as anything that supports someone's journey toward their wellbeing. So this really does. It encompasses all of our verticals. And it's really a deep dive because what we're trying to do is bring out these threads that exist across different areas. What are the ones that are the ones we want to spotlight? First of all, that we think are great and evidential of greater access and inclusion in the Wellness Space, which is the thread that I think we've been moving toward for the past 12 years. But also, what are the ones that we have tangible proof for? So what are you going to see in the next year on your phone, in your community? What are the ones that will directly impact consumers? Yeah, and I think also from what I saw recently in the 2023 report is really the same on innovation. And there's one article in particular that I want to talk about, which is this concept around wellness travel. And I thought that was super fascinating. Can you talk a little bit more about what this term wellness travel is? How we're seeing it really evolve in the hospitality industry. And I guess why it's becoming increasingly popular? Yeah. I think it's really interesting. I'll take us back just a little bit to talk about what wellness travel means at the end of 2019. So before I was a part of the Well and Good team, at the end of the decade, Well and Good did a big package on what's happened? What can we see from this decade that's going to really take off in the next decade? So it was wellness trends on steroids. And at the end of 2019, we published a piece about how all travel had become and was continuing to become wellness travel, which is kind of like, what? What does that mean? Are we every trip is becoming a wellness trip? And in a way, it experts at the time pointed to the fact that we are consistently burning out or connected in every single way through our phones. So in a way that we weren't to work. And that all trips needed to serve some purpose or we're increasingly needing to serve some purpose of disconnection, some wellness element. You really needed your PTO to leave you feeling better when you got back because there was no escape from the constant demands of work. And of course, we've moved a little bit past that hustle culture at this point. I would hope, I think. But at this point, that was really peaking. And so suddenly, every hotel had yoga mats. There's peloton bikes in the rooms. There's green juice. There's meditation classes. It became this very expansive thing, which is great in one way to give people those options to incorporate wellness into their travel. And for people who were already wellness at the Cianados to continue maintaining their healthy habits on their trip. But at the same time, for the retreats and the resorts that had been wellness retreats and resorts for years, this was kind of watering down what they were trying to do. So suddenly, wellness travel became this broad thing. But the capital W wellness travel industry-- we say capital W when we're talking about wellness as an industry-- so that became very watered down. So now, if all travel is wellness travel, what is it really? I think that depends on the traveler. So I look back to who is the person taking the trip. Because in the industry, anyone will email me and say, we're a wellness hotel because we have a spa. It's like, well, everyone has a spa now. So how are you differentiating yourself as a wellness hotel? And certainly, some definitely are. We can talk about that in a little bit. But I think, as a result, wellness travel is about the traveler. It could be going to the spa, the biggest party hotel. And that could be wellness for you. It could be a full-blown yoga retreat in India. So I think it really is anything on either end of a spectrum or in the middle, depending on what that person is looking for. Yeah. I mean, as you were talking about the yoga retreat in India, it just brought me back to last summer when I did my yoga teacher training in Bali. And that was like the ultimate wellness travel for me because it was part of the program where I was doing yoga every morning for two hours and meditating, but also just like the energy in a place like Bali is very spiritual. And everything is very natural and organic and health conscious. And it just felt like every decision I was making was centered around something related to health and wellness. So the entire experience that month and a half was like serene. And the most amazing experience for me. But I want to ask a little more about what kind of differentiates a hotel with a spa versus a wellness hotel, a resort or a place that's really looking to infuse wellness as part of their ethos and really what they're offering and what they stand for. Yeah. I think that line had become blurry in the past couple years. And now the wellness resorts and retreats that have been that way or wanted to be that way from the beginning are pushing the envelope to differentiate themselves. So incorporating what we found elements of emotional and spiritual wellness into that journey. So it's not just the Peloton bike in the room, but there's yoga classes you can consult with an on-site practitioner, maybe even a therapist, a relationship therapist, perhaps. You can practice mindfulness in a setting with other people, practice meditation. You can go on an off-site with a group of people on a retreat. So there's certainly levels and degrees. But one of the more interesting trends that I reported on this year is the rise of what we're calling moon and stars tourism. So elements of psychic wellness and spiritual wellness being incorporated for the first time into wellness travel, which I think is happening for a couple reasons. One of them, I think, is because these wellness institutions do want to push the envelope a step further and they want to differentiate themselves. And they're like, yeah, spiritual wellness. They certainly don't have that at the Vegas hotel. So why don't we lean into that? And then I think the other side of it is the demand from consumers that are interested in this. People are into astrology. their incidents. tarot as an element of a daily wellness practice or a frequent wellness practice, if not daily, not just as a fun thing, you know, as a part of self-discovery. So suddenly this year, I had the fun job of reporting on, although it tells and resorts across the country who have resident psychic mediums, who have tarot readings and groups that you can do together, who have onsite astrologers taking you on these stargazing journeys outside at night to look at the constellations. And these things are deeper than they see them. They are transformative. And for someone who is in the wellness space, but as perhaps never explored spiritual or emotional wellness, these types of experiences really can define wellness travel for them as something that leaves them, feeling transformed, feeling relaxed, and maybe even feeling like they have a bigger, better understanding of themselves when they return from a trip, which is I think all you can really ask for from a wellness travel experience. I love that. And I'm so curious to see how perhaps like this concept of spiritual travel might evolve over time, because I do think that there's like this growing interest in astrology and like tarot and stuff more in the spiritual realm. So I can only imagine how fun that opportunity must have been to go and report on that. And you know, when we're talking about wellness travel and these different hotels and resorts, I can imagine they're probably like pretty expensive and maybe not as accessible to everyone. So when we think about like incorporating greater wellness into travel or into our PTO and our time off, what would you say are some practical tips or small things that people can do to feel like they're being rejuvenated from their PTO or their vacation, even if they're not taking some grand holiday experience and spending a ton of money, like maybe what are some like smaller steps that someone can do to just feel like they're having this reset and focusing on this element of wellness in their own travel or restful periods of time. Yeah, that's a great question. And so much of the content that I work on gets at that in one way or another, how to actually use the time off, how to disconnect. And I think I will plug our upcoming Renew Year package, which is geared all around this. It's an answer to the new year, new me narrative that we certainly do not subscribe to. On the contrary, it's about starting the year in a clear and conscious mindset with a month's worth of daily actionable tips, like you just mentioned about how to incorporate some element of wellness into your life. So the program is broken into three sections, self-care, which is the one that I spearheaded this year, fitness or movement and food. And in each one, there's a monthly plan with tips for what you can do. And so I worked with a meditation expert all around wellness expert and certified nutritionist, Kimberly Snyder, to come up with our month of self-care strategies. And some of them are so simple, yet so gratifying. So one that I am actually in the midst of trying out right now is laying on the floor for 10 minutes every day, which you'd be amazed at how much it requires you to tune into your breathing and to get a new outlook on your space and your perspective quite literally. So that's a really fun one. I am a huge fan of meditation and mindfulness and using the apps that allow you to do so in a really quick way. So one that I'm using right now is called Balance that offers a daily meditation, but there's tons that are out there that I love that I think is a quick way to tune out and reconnect with yourself. Yeah, but to your point about access for wellness travel, I think that some of the explosion of availability of wellness travel has helped increase access because if there's just more, if there's more options out there for wellness travel, then there will be a wider range at price points so that it isn't just the historic seven day cleanse detox, whatever toxic language you want to use for the type of trip that used to be a wellness trip. And so because there is that expansion, there are more opportunities to find wellness at a resort that you might be at at a hotel, so that you can use your PTO in free ways like walking on the beach or meditating on the beach, which is often a free offering at a hotel that you're saying at. So a kind of a mix there of daily practices that will be rolling out in this package in about a week if all goes well. And then also that growth of wellness travel in the direction of being more expansive and inclusive. I also think if you have the like ability to work remotely, if your job allows you for that, opportunity, I think there's ways to also just infuse wellness into travel and into working anywhere that you want to. So last year at this time, my friend and I did a week remote in Miami. And like in New York, you simply can't take a lunch break on the beach. Like that's just not possible. But in Florida, you absolutely can. And just like that simple 30 minute break where like I could walk to the ocean, be near the water, relax. Like I felt so rejuvenated really in just that short period of time. So I was so grateful like to have that opportunity. And so I think like if your job allows for you to work remotely, I think there's so much value in that experience and just changing things up a little bit. Going somewhere that calms you and you can also like get work done. It's and not necessarily having to, you know, sacrifice on your PTO. So I'm sure there are also other ways where you can kind of find greater access to wellness travel. Even though it's exciting to see the types of resorts and hotels that are going to be popping up in the space. Another really interesting article that I came across in the wellness trends was this concept around like mental fitness and how this has been really exploding. And just with the rise of like other companies and organizations that are dedicated to this topic of mental fitness, can you talk a little bit more about what this term means and how it pertains to our mental health? Yeah. So mental fitness like it sounds is really working out your mind and your mental health in the same way that you do your body. So the way that you would engage in physical fitness to support your muscles, the bones, physical being, you can engage in mental fitness to support your mental health. And the trend this year that we reported on was essentially this becoming a thing that was more accessible to people through the launch of several different apps. So this was something that Sam Layow our deputy editor called together. But really, I did want to say that we've been reporting on and lifting up the concept of mental fitness, not using those words, but in various ways for for plenty of years, I will say that the idea that you don't need to be in a crisis to do things that support your mental health is really where this comes from that you can do so proactively. And Sam in the trend gets into the idea that this doesn't need to replace a therapist or seeing a professional and it shouldn't because certainly if you are experiencing a mental health crisis or looking to solve a mental illness, that is something that you would go to a therapist to do or a psychologist. In the same way that if you had an e-injury or a physical ailment, you would go see a physical therapist or a doctor. So that's not to say that you wouldn't exercise though, you know, because you're waiting until you get an injury. In the same way that why would you not work on your mental health until you have a problem. So that's the whole idea behind it. And the trend this year is really the ways that new digital platforms are making this accessible, making this concept of mental fitness accessible and tangible for people to engage in. So the launch of Wonder Mind from Selena Gomez as a content hub and a podcast where the entire topic is about mental health and how to strengthen your mental fitness before you have, you know, hopefully a problem beforehand. So the launch of Mind Bar, which offers pre-recorded modules from therapists and coaches that anyone can access the launch of Wellset, which is a live streamed version of that, which is very cool. In the same way that you would live stream your Peloton class, you could live stream a meditation class, a journaling class, things like that. So it is really exciting because it's expanding access to the types of modalities that maybe were only accessible to certain people in person before. We're only accessible to people who could forward therapists. So it's essentially platforms that have a class pass idea, but for mental health. Yeah, I love that. And I think that term really resonated with me because of my own philosophy and perspective on like mental health and wellness. And something that I try to keep really integral with everyday endorphins is really discussing, you know, the importance of finding things that can really strengthen in your resilience and your toolkit to help you overcome challenges and obstacles in your life. And I think, you know, when the term mental health first started becoming popular maybe a few years ago, I think our society saw it as something that was only like exclusively available to be spoken about with for people who are like actually struggling and suffering and who have some sort of mental illness. Excluding other parts of the population that maybe aren't struggling with chronic anxiety or depression, maybe aren't medicated but like are still going through challenges in life. And so something that you know, I find to be really interesting now and I hope will continue to develop over time as this shift in the narrative around, you know, when we think about mental health, not solely thinking about mental illness but rather like strategies and ways to just make you more resilient and mentally fit to go back to this term of mental fitness to prevent you from experiencing, you know, any sort of challenge or any sort of mental illness to kind of prevent the problem before it even happens. And so I think that also really opens up this term around mental health and how we define it and that's something that's really exciting for me because I think it also brings greater awareness to like the value of mental health and how we can lead healthier and happier lives. Yeah, 100%. That's exactly it. It's as mental health and even the concept of going to therapy has become desigualties and normalized, you know, in large part thanks to Gen Z, which is great, you know, as that's been happening, this idea of mental fitness started in wellness circles. It was like, you know, well, the wellness experts are journaling every day and they're practicing meditation on their own, but it didn't feel like something that quote unquote, like regular everyday people could do and that's what the launch of these platforms is changing by making that something that isn't just something you can tune into or you can do, but that you want to and that you think you, you know, you should for your own mental health that you are encouraged to do and easily can do in the same way that that physical fitness has exploded and it's totally, you know, a recommended thing to go to the gym to work out to do things like that every day and people, of course, that's a struggle to do for plenty of people, but there are ways to, you know, that we've encouraged people to find physical fitness in their homes or walking outside or in ways that hopefully are more accessible to people and that's kind of the gist here with mental fitness to, to increase the access and the inclusion of everyone who wants to work on their mental fitness before a problem arises. Yeah, I'm very excited to see also how this will continue to evolve because there's so many interesting companies and apps that are popping up now and I love, I'm wonder, mine, I love subscribing to their content and like other companies just like one, remind that are promoting such great messages. It's really empowering and uplifting and I think it also, like the more that you put those types of thoughts into your mind, the more you'll start to bring your attention to like things in life that can make you healthier and happier. So it's exciting to see kind of where that will go and going back to some of the different trends that are discussed in the Wellness Trends report and really just the report at large. What is really the intention behind producing this annual report every year for readers of Welland Good? What do you hope that readers are getting out of this report and how do you hope that they kind of use it in their day to die? Yeah, so the report is really meant to compile the best of and the biggest of the wellness industry in terms of where it's going and looking ahead. So what it's doing for readers and for consumers is letting them know the trajectory that they can look forward to in the wellness space divided across our different verticals and that's based on our very, you know, expansive level of access to this industry. So we look at industry statistics, that data, we look at funding, you know, where is the money going in order to determine what will be big next year and it's exciting because a lot, the common thread through a lot of these trends is inclusion and access and expansion. So we had a trend about maternal health and the fact that we're now looking at maternal health more holistically that there's organizations popping up to support motherhood and parenthood in a holistic way like never before. So that is about access, you know, trends like mental fitness, of course, are about access. So there's that common thread, but the idea of the report is really to shed light on the biggest and brightest innovations in the wellness space and to lift up the ones that we are excited about and that industry seems excited about, you know, for the next year. And in terms of industry, it is interesting to see how when brands and founders see the places highlighted in this list, how they get excited about where their brand could fit in or how that direction, that future direction of a particular trend relates to their mission. So we do get feedback on that front as well. Yeah, totally. And as a health and wellness and lifestyle journalist, what are you most excited for on that we can look forward to in 2023 in the health and wellness space? Yeah, there's so many things. How do I choose just one? So I think that I actually, I know I just mentioned the maternal health trend and it wasn't one I personally worked on, but I am thrilled that the industry, the industry, which is unfortunate, that's an industry, but the industry of pregnancy and parenthood is becoming so much more inclusive in terms of doula care in terms of midwives being something that anyone can access looking at maternal mortality, which is see high in this country in comparison to other developed countries. And so this is something where in 2023, I'm thrilled that we're talking about the health mentally and physically of a of a birthing parent, both throughout pregnancy and in, you know, what we call the fourth trimester once the baby has come out is alive, thinking still about the health of that birthing parent, which has been largely ignored outside of conversations about postpartum depression. So thinking proactively about that person's health as well in ways that again other countries have have led the charge over us. So particularly excited about that, but across the board, I think it's the access and inclusion note that that we're seeing at well and good that we've been seeing ramp up that I'm excited to see push forward even more in 2023. Yeah, and also to your point about like maternal health, that's something I hadn't even really ever thought about. So it's exciting for me to also see how expansive health can be, like how how we can really apply this idea to so many different areas of our lives and recognize how health really permeates through everything. And also as a journalist, I wanted to ask you how your perspective of health and wellness has like developed over time as someone who's so close to the health and wellness space and reporting really on lifestyle, because it's it's so close to your work. So I'm just curious to hear, you know, how your own perspective of health has really perhaps shifted throughout the course of your life. Yeah, I think it's been really interesting to see the ways I do and don't practice what I preach. And I think there is a disconnect sometimes in me, I'll just speak for for me, that I'm so close to this content I'm writing about it all day. I'm speaking to amazing experts, which is by the way my favorite part of my job, speaking to therapists and psychologists and meditation experts and mindfulness experts and all sorts of amazing people in lifestyle, wellness space and writing and synthesizing their amazing thoughts. And then do I go do those things like sometimes, you know, so it has changed the way I think about at least health journalism and the ways that you package something when I'm writing a piece, it's like, would I go do this based on the way that I'm explaining this based on the way that I'm packaging the function and the benefits of this particular practice. So I think it has changed the way I think about how I consume health content and the ways that I consider making that content more accessible. So as I'm writing it, thinking about what I what I really practice this, what I do this thing is this tangible and something that we talk about at Wellinggood with the direction of our content, we've started adding in a lot more what we call I tried it pieces. So like we did it, you know, a writer did it for a week this and here's how I feel and people resonate with that in our audience because they want to know what have you actually done, you know, as as journalists, as well as journalists and how has that affected you. So we've actually been moving in that direction with our content. content because like you said, it can get so close to what we're doing that we sometimes miss it in our own lives. Yeah, I'm really happy you bring that up because even through just interviewing people on my podcast, I feel like I'm learning so much about topics related to the health and wellness space or strategies that you can do to boost your own wellness, but it's really hard to sometimes practice what you preach. So I really try to be very cognizant about finding ways to really incorporate what I'm learning into my day to day. And sometimes it can be hard when you're so close to it. So it's always a nice reminder to know that other people are also going through that experience and the health and wellness space and that it's also okay to not practice everything that you preach because I think another thing that we probably both preach is just like this, this commonality of being human and that you're not going to be perfect all the time. And that's okay. And there's so many nuances when we discuss health and wellness and what it means to lead a healthy and happy life. And going off of that, you know, a large theme with everyday endorphins is really talking about, you know, our philosophy on happiness. What would you say your philosophy is on what it means to be happy? Yeah. It's a huge question. I think that something we talk about and something that I really believe is that happiness springs from agency, you know, being empowered to do something every day that fills your cup to pursue a career that feels fulfilling. So I think it comes down to that agency feeling like you have the capacity, whether it's mentally, physically, financially, emotionally, you have the capacity to go after at least I think one thing every day that's just for yourself. And I had a really interesting conversation a while back on something called joy practices with Rada Agarwal, who is the founder of Daybreaker, which you might know as those sunrise dance parties. Silent Discos often that happened there, sober, other at like 5 a.m. And this, you know, blew up and wellness basis a couple years ago, but I chatted with her about what are the joy practices that you can do when you're not at a 5 a.m. dance party. And she broke it down in an interesting way into each of the happiness neurotransmitters, quote unquote, happiness neurotransmitters. So yes, endorphins, but also dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin, which are the other three that we know contribute to feelings of contentment and happiness in different ways. So there are different strategies you can do for each of those, but I think it was interesting to hear that endorphins really are the, they're the high. They're like that runner's high feeling as you know. And so I think that for me, that was like, that's always been dancing. It's always been like, you know, she said, I remember her saying, the key is for it to be any type of thing you do with reckless abandon, which I loved that phrase. Because you think of dancing, you think of running, you think of like just flailing, you know, reckless abandon, but some heart pumping thing that you can do. And so nowadays, like for me, that's like that's dance cardio. Or even it's not necessarily physically heart pumping from you, but even engaging, like going to a dance performance, watching one. I am like, my heart is racing. I'm so excited to be there. I'm feeling endorphins like flying through my body. I am going to see one of my good friends from high school who's a rocket. I'm going to see her tomorrow night. And I know I'm going to be in my chair like, you know, just so excited and feeling all the endorphins flying. And I'm even excited just talking about it. So for me, you know, dance is that thing. But I found it really interesting speaking with Rada about these different, these different neurotransmitters, oxytocin being the cuddling hormone dopamine, like the anticipation of some gratifying thing, which people often get wrong about dopamine. It's actually more rushing through your body when you're excited about something that's going to happen versus actually doing the thing. It actually dips in a really big way after, which was an interesting fact I learned in a piece about revenge, why people get excited about taking revenge and then feel bad right after. So dopamine is actually an anticipatory feeling. So anticipating something that's exciting to you. And then the last one being serotonin, that like overall warm, fuzzy content feeling, like when you go out into the sunshine, walking on the beach, things like that. So anyway, that was a long answer to say I have a very wellness writer perspective on happiness. But in the endorphins camp, I think that heart rushing high feeling is totally what you're chasing. I love that answer and I've been wanting to try daybreakers like for years. And I've just never gotten around to it. But I've been meaning to go because I can imagine how much of an endorphin thrill that would be, especially because I love 305 fitness. One of my like every time I take a 305 fitness class, I'm like, I feel so confident. And I just like emerge into the world and I'm just like, I'm ready to take on whatever the day has for me. And it was actually pretty cool earlier this year or by the time this will be released last year. I partnered with 305 fitness for like everyday endorphins classes and that was really fun. I'm getting to bring a community together and work out at the studio. Definitely people got in their endorphins for sure. And I know that you mentioned that dancing is something that brings you a lot of joy. And you beat me to my last question for you, Erica, which is something that I ask every guest that comes onto the podcast. Besides dancing, what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? I totally jumped the gun, didn't I? I knew it as I was speaking too. So yes, dancing. But to your point, you're right. It's not just dance and I don't dance every single day. So I don't know if that would be an endorphins moment. I think for me, I think I have a ritual now that has really taken off in the past recent months of not doing too much outside, back when that was more the mode. And I actually started watching Jeopardy with my partner every night. And so this is something I do every night to bring me a sense of endorphins. And I know what you're thinking. You know what everyone is thinking, like, how is TV going to be my wellness answer for what brings me endorphins? But I will caveat that with Jeopardy, it is an engaged competition. I am heart racing. I am what is the answer? I love doing it, you know, watching it with my boyfriend who's equally participating. We are no phones. We are not looking anything up. You know, we're fully engaged in the moment. And that is endorphins. That's a rush, you know, to get the right answer. To get it before my boyfriend, before someone on screen gets it, it's so, so fun. So I actually, in terms of daily practices, that's been one that I've really stuck with. I got into in the Amy Schneider, the rise of Amy Schneider on Jeopardy last year and her totally record breaking streak. But it's been something that I've really kept up. So to be perfectly honest, it is Jeopardy for me every day. I love that. And I think there's like so much value in that answer because it's a form of just like escaping reality and you're fully focused. And you don't have your devices on you. So that can definitely be a big endorphin moment. And something that I've recently been doing is watching more TV. And it is actually really nice, like to get lost in a show or just to take a moment to like not do anything, to sit back and just relax and like, veg a little bit. Because it's actually really important for you. I'm just finding rustful moments. So I love that answer. Erica, it was so lovely having you as a guest on the podcast. Where can my followers connect with you and read some of your content? >> Yeah. So we are at I am Wellingood on Instagram. And I'm at @aericapagelone on Instagram. And in both places. I'm often sharing my content, but The Wellingood Instagram is fantastic for finding our latest content. And then of course, Wellingood.com to go straight to the source. So yeah. >> Amazing. Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much for having me, Stella. [MUSIC] >> Thanks for listening to this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard, make sure to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever platform you prefer. You can also follow along the Everyday Endorphins Instagram account to stay up to date with episodes, future events, and all things related to mental health, wellbeing, and happiness. Don't forget to keep spreading Endorphins and find things in life that bring you joy every day. Until next time. [MUSIC]