EP #90- The Esotericism and Endorphins in Techno Music with Delia Beatriz (DEBIT), DJ and Music Tech Producer

[MUSIC] And what DJing is a relationship with the collective and you're kind of just following the wave and you know, it's almost sort of like a co-creation with the audience. And orphans that backfades is massive. [MUSIC] Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast that focuses on the importance of finding joy and happiness and daily living. I'm your host Stella Stephanopoulos and this week is all about the endorphins and happiness in techno music. A few months back, I had the opportunity to interview Delia Beatriz, also known as Debit, who is a DJ and experimental producer. Delia has a fascinating story and not only does she have a graduate degree from NYU in music technology, but she's also a Zelia Banks touring DJ. And in this interview, we talk about where Delia gets her inspiration from when creating her own music. We also discuss how different genres of music be it lyrical versus electronic music can really influence and impact our mental state and our mood in different ways. Lastly, Delia shares the experience of DJing versus performing how those different experiences impact her mental health in different ways. And some of her best practices for staying healthy, happy, and finding her endorphins in life. I'm so excited for you guys to listen to this episode and I hope that after you stream this interview, you pop in your headphones, go for a walk and just be fully immersed in some of her music. It's really powerful, really eclectic and I think there's a lot to be said about just the happiness and feeling like you can escape into a song or a beat. So hopefully you guys also get in some of your endorphins through listening to this interview and after. Before we get right into it, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Inker. [Music] Hi, Delia. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Hi, Stella. Thank you for having me. I am really excited to get into our conversation today and wanted to kind of start off with how cool it is that you're Ezealia Banks touring DJ. Yeah, it's been a really amazing experience. It's going to be a year in August, I think. That's awesome. Congratulations. No, no, she's an incredible artist. One of the most important icons of our time, I would say. And I've learned a lot and experienced a lot working close to her. So for sure, it's been really rewarding. That's amazing. I can only imagine kind of like what the experience is to be alongside someone while they're touring, producing music together, something that I really want to touch on today and we're going to get into later in the interview is that experience of performing versus DJing. And I think there's a lot of great things we can talk about there. But before we dive into that, I'd love to start out with how you fell into music production. Can you tell my listeners a little bit about how you landed in the world of music and creativity and kind of what brought you here? Yeah, so I've always been really musical growing up, just like classic lessons and always kind of out of this stuff I was exposed to culturally. That was just sort of what I always leaned more into. And then I started exploring multimedia just sort of when I was in college and my undergrad just trying to learn more technical skills. And I think through computer music and just the digital realm, I discovered electronic music, which is its whole world. And at first, it was just one of the many mediums I worked with digitally and then it just sort of became my main focus when I moved to New York in 2015. Electronic music is a really interesting niche because there's no lyrics to it. It's just beats. And what kind of drew your eye to that type of genre? I think it just felt really contemporary because of the invention of creative uses for machines. In general, it's just always something that I found really fascinating and it felt was a bit of the sight guys. Even though a lot of these machines and a lot of this work is very old, I think right now electronic music is essentially a full work. Because it's been decades. So at first, it was just the intrigue of the birth and the creation of new instruments. And then discovering more just like the science and the spirituality or just sort of like the esoterism. Both of those realms, like in sound, like the sound frequency themselves and the fact that they were being generated by circuits. Like just all that sort of the tech behind it also I found was really like intriguing in itself and trying to generate meaning. And sensorial experiences that hadn't been felt before because of the nature of the source. I also it's just something I knew I wanted to be part of. And I think it's so much more challenging but also so much more, it has so much more potential to create meaning in in realms where it's either new or just something that is not commonly promoted. So it's just, it feels more novel and it feels just richer in that way. Did you grow up with an interest in electronic music? Like was that your preferred genre to listen to? And I know that you have a background from Brown University and international relations. So that's like wildly different than what you've fallen into now. So what was that transition like? The transition really came through having an interest in politics. Essentially I think I'm an immigrant and I come from I grew up in Mexico. So moving to United States in middle school just as immediately I think was radicalizing because you see the material differences between two places and you you know you're old enough as a teenager to understand that it's because of politics. So I think initially that was like my first interest like in life. But then as I grew older just seeing that like culture is a precondition or just sort of like the landscape in which politics play out. I just felt it was such a more interesting way to explore and manifest these ideas for you know justice and equality and a better human experience essentially which I think is like the goals of politics. So I think like in my political quest growing up like as an activist in high school and in college and just really understanding that I was much more interested in the indirect or just sort of like the precursors to ideology. I just started really believing that it was through art where we can make the most difference or where I could because it was just sort of like the format that just I believed in the most. So following that path of authenticity and trying to really find my own authenticity both in culture and in politics or conflating the two. That's when I sort of just started really to take art much more seriously as its own tool as it's a weapon or as a tool or a format. And then I think within that I you know you start to find what you like and what you don't and and then just stuff that is really just preferences and aesthetics. And for me just like the ideas and the artists that have come about within electronic music were the ones that I resonated with the most and I think they're the most fascinating people in human history essentially. Did you have any particular DJs or artists in the electronic music space that you really admired and that you looked up to or that you at least like draw inspiration from when you actually compose your own music. It's funny because I ended up in club and DJing like asked like the last bit of like my journey so because I started studying electronic music and computer music in school it was first like the founding fathers or like the you know the iconic women who were at the BBC radio workshop and they they invented musical uses for machines you know so it was all first kind of like. The people who were in lab codes basically like inventing new uses for machines or theorists you know stuff that was a lot more academic or a lot more like in a realm of museum and institutes so that was kind of like my first introduction and kind of like my foundation. But that is very that's a niche you know and I think academic work it's could be very isolated that social part in me wanted to see these things spill out of these designated spaces so I think like with club music is essentially what that is you know electronic music for spaces where people aren't like having to know the references or the theories behind or even how it was like. It's very simple whether they five to it or not you know so. I ended up with a lot of things that I wanted to see. yeah, in club music very much at the end of my trajectory. And they're still like really amazing and intelligent, you know, that's not to say that it's not intelligent or intellectual, it's just like not made for the academy. And there are a couple of references I can think of, like Brian Eno being one of the most famous ones because he started out in like a glam rock band and then went off to invent essentially ambient or, you know, to really make it a genre and he is, you know, a contemporary electronic musician that's very well known. So just I think electronic music can really allow you to go in a lot of different directions depending on the project and the intention of like that moment of creation. So that's kind of like a reference for me. We know that there's a big influence on music with music and our happiness or just like our general mood state. There's a huge relationship between listening to music to make you feel better or sometimes like if you're kind of in your feels and you want to listen to more sad music like in a weird way that can also make you feel happier to kind of like sink into that sadness. But I find that it's easier to relate to music sometimes when there's lyrics associated like a lot of artists draw who are songwriters draw from their own personal lives to actually write the lyrics that they're then going to sing and perform. And like in that there's like this direct connection because it's it's through these written lyrics, these song lyrics. But in electronic music you just have the beats and the melody and the sounds. So can you talk a little bit about the difference between like lyrical composition versus purely electronic like sound music sound driven music and how that influences from an artist perspective bringing in your own experience around life into your music. But then from like a listener perspective how like beats versus listening to music with lyrics can kind of influence our mental state. I mean I think like lyrical music is inherently autobiographical. I think every artist inserts themselves or in some capacity to the work and I don't think that's a bad thing you know. But I think lyrical music is much more imposing in terms of like what the meaning is and it leaves less room for interpretation or for the listener or the viewer's experience to take its own form. It is so much more successful in that way because it's incredibly relatable because it's very literal. And personally I'm not attracted to that is kind of just like the same with like classical music you know that there's no lyrics but good symphonies will definitely transmit like a very clear message you know war music or for ballet you know there's just all these different functions if you will. I think like the abstraction the abstract ness of electronic music that isn't lyric or word based that is the one that can I think allow people to have the truest experience and it's not to compete as to which which art form or which derivative of the genres is more important. But I just think when we work with materials in an abstract form we can really allow the materials to be themselves versus using it for yeah to write a sad song or like a love song essentially which I feel is like what most songs are about. Oh like love and and that's great but I'm personally interested in in expanding our range of emotions and experiences and also the use of the mediums themselves and creating situations and projects where the sounds themselves can have more room to exist in different capacities and that's really abstract I recognize that but that's just sort of been my relationship with with the sounds you know. Yeah totally I mean we can get really philosophical here something that actually like just came to my mind is how I feel like a lot of techno electronic EDM types of music like those genres and particular I think are easier to dance to because you can just kind of like flow with it like you can just like move your body to the beat and dancing is like a really emotion driven or can be in a very a very emotion driven like art form as well. So where do you see the relationship between physical movement and dance with this type of music that you produce? I think the first thing to consider is the beats per minute like the velocity or the speed at which we are experiencing or creating like the actual rhythm which is like what what's pulling the song and the dance forward. So I think like with dance based electronic music they tend to be faster than other genres. So that's the first thing and like the body reacts to that like scientifically you know. So I think we're like raising we're like raising the levels of like the heartbeat or like you know it creates like that discrepancy of like our own natural rhythm in the moment versus the one you're hearing and the one you're feeling you know because when you go out usually the PA's the systems are louder than what your ear can even receive so it's a whole body your whole body is feeling it. I think like the first thing is that like the music is faster so therefore it's like already creating something there like biologically just like it to our actual bodies. The other thing to consider too with electronic music in terms of how it makes us feel too it's just like the context like if it's at night or a rave like or you know it's not very like it's not part of your day to day so it already like kind of takes you out of like your routine first of all and I think that can lead it to trans like or you know sort of these other forms of mind of experiencing our own minds and I think even you know if we zoom out even beyond electronic or outside of electronic like a lot of dance or you know like dancing and comes from the sort of ritual or it could it has had other historical you know functions that I think can maybe bring us closer to our spirit or to like the greater good or I don't know if it's really like the connecting with others but I do think in that sense historically and across cultures dancing does have a state altering effect or a result. I have two comments I want to make from that because you mentioned just kind of like how electronic music can make you feel and how like the environment also can really impact just the experience of like taking in that type of music. One anecdote I want to share from that is like a few summers ago I spent like six weeks in Berlin which I feel like is like the capital of like electronic EDM music. One of the best like summers of my life number one number two is I just I loved going out to these clubs where it really was just techno music because you can when you're in that environment where like it's dark and there's like these colorful lights flashing and you're just like around this infectious energy where people are just like there to have a good time and just kind of like let their worries co and fully be absorbed in the music. I feel like that's kind of like one of the most salient examples of what it means to be in the present like when you're fully just tapped into the moment and there's something so special about being in a space with people where you're just like kind of on the same wavelength and you're listening to music that can kind of move you through that translate state. So my own anecdote of being at like a fun techno club and secondly just this this element around cultures and rituals and dancing I know that you draw a lot of inspiration from like like the Mayan culture I'm in like the Mayan influence into your own music can you talk a little bit more about that. Yeah so for my last album I used an archive of Mayan Wind Instruments pre-Hispanic Mayans because there's still Mayan groups that exist and are thriving now in southern Mexico and Central America but I'm referring to pre-Hispanic Mayans when they have the civilization and their city states and the pyramids and all their advances all their cultural advances and they had a significant extensive archive or a lot of the stuff survived even though a lot of the musical notations and forms of use didn't because when Mexico was colonized part of the colonization was destroying sort of like the legacy. So the stuff that survived was just some objects here and there and like the huge pyramid you know stuff that was just like they couldn't destroy. They the Spanish conquistado is what I'm referring to. And in the Mayan case I mean they were a very advanced civilization and saw a lot of their tools, a lot of their instruments which I refer to as music tech. Did I believe were used for sort of interspecies communication and maybe intergalactic communication. I mean they were even though they're made out of clay. A lot of the effects those have like when I was working on them you know I often time felt very nauseous and I just felt very dizzy and like even you know a lot of studies say that yeah sound certain frequencies make you affect your body a certain way. So I do believe a lot of these instruments were used for speaking to animals whether it was attracting or for hunting or scaring them for safety and and others yeah to get higher something you know because they're they're definitely weren't just for you know the pleasure of music and I that's why I refer to them as a technology even though they don't have you know a circuitry. And I find that to be mind blowing because I think it's just it really has expanded it really did expand my notion as to what tech is what music is and going back to your first point and the anecdote too about like the being in the present and I think you know similar to prayer it is like dancing can lead to just like a connection to the universe or the collective or God and I think oftentimes you can see those things being similar in some cultures. I definitely agree with that and to your point also about music or specific you know frequencies impacting your body I think that's why like sound baths is such a healing practice. These sound bathed meditations are you know like the Tibetan ringing bowl like they'll emit like sound at a certain frequency and vibration and it's really meditative and I think it there there is some science that can kind of like explain how those frequencies actually lie you to like relax in your body and find a peace of mind and so I'm sure there's like a similar line of thinking or like a similar philosophy that could even be applied into techno which is pretty fascinating to think about. And similarly there's toxicity in sound as well you know and I mean one of the things too when speaking about how you know clubbing in particular can be such a transcendental experience I think there's also the other side of being exposed to that very regularly from from those of us who work in nightlife you know and not just the musicians you know from the dormant to the bartenders you know and yeah I think the other side of that too is that it can also be really it can have a negative effect to your mental state and there are also you know sound even sounds that aren't musical that can be really damaging not just your ears you know I could create different sort of literal toxicity in your body so I do think it's something that we all kind of know and understand and there obviously been extensive studies of both the positive and the negative but I still think that it's complete it's it hasn't been explored enough you know and I think again going back to why like music is so amazing you know I want to switch gears a little bit and talk more about your own experience on both sides of this spectrum so performing versus like DJing so we talked a little bit the other day about one of those practices being very emotion driven and the other one being more centered around this this feeling of connectedness so can you talk a little bit about the differences between those two experiences for you and what you even prefer yeah so I mean right now I've been touring my last album which is called the long count and it's the album I made using the the archive of wind instruments and artificial intelligence and I ended up creating a performance that was a bit of a ceremony and I think when you're performing with electronic machines it's not very easy sometimes to create an emotional resonance with the viewer or the listener sorry and I think you know it goes back to like the non-lirical meat messaging you know it's just like there's so many reasons why it could it could be a harder relationship to build and I think for me one of the things I sought out to achieve with this with this cycle of touring was that I wanted to create an emotional resonance because like you're pressing buttons and you're sort of like moving faders and knobs it's not the same like as if you're playing an actual violin you know and like the actual resonance is coming from the actual machine and you're you know there's just like literal physical distances at every step of the way and I think that's why sometimes electronic music doesn't appeal to the the mass in in the same way as like a rock band or an acapella group you know because like you just don't feel it I think in general just like inherently so I really wanted to try to achieve a performance where first of all I could feel something because I think the only way for somebody to feel something is you emitting a feeling I was able you know it varies context to context because it's also so technically demanding to perform live with gear there's so many variables that you don't control that it could be you know you have to use your brain but you can't really like unless you're like literally performing the emotion which is totally valid but for me like I actually need to access my emotions and yeah I think it varies from from performance to performance it's it's kind of hard you're you're following a script I mean a score so there are a lot of less like improvisations you can do like in terms of like oh they're feeling this okay I'm gonna hit that more like you you know you're kind of just performing the music I think there's a lot of drama you can add to it and spectacle but in the end the feeling is is you know in our souls and to create that connection is yeah I think is one of the things that I really care about both in performing and indeed jing but with performing like I said I think there's just much more to handle and less to play with but this particular album is really sad like there's something really dark and morbid in the in the sound themselves I think like the history is really sad I think maybe some of the instruments were used for sacrifice so it's not that they're sad it like they're not sentient but in a way I felt and every performing so I am communicating with them I am talking to them and they're talking to me and to others through me and yeah there there were a couple of times sometimes I I would be completely like enraptured in that in that and I think it's hard you know it's definitely difficult but it's rewarding because you're bringing life and you're bringing emotion and more to something that would otherwise just be pressing buttons and to the end like whatever like going through the motions and with DJing is a relationship with the collective and you're kind of just following the wave and they're you know you're it's almost sort of like a co-creation with the audience and to an extent even the promoters and the producers of the event because everything matters even who plays before you and how they set it up and that can be obviously so much fun and the endorphins that that creates is it's massive so it feels like there's like two separate experiences when you're performing you're having to harness emotions within yourself to not only feel connected to the music but then convey that to the audience and then with the DJ side of things you're also there isn't like an emotional aspect to it but it seems like less so and DJing is more about kind of feeling the overall vibe and like matching the energy that the audience is giving you but then seeing how everything kind of fits together like you mentioned who comes on before you who comes on after you it feels like it needs to be kind of this like cohesive energy and you know to your earlier point about harnessing that emotion and performing I've really resonated with what you said because I grew up playing the violin for a little bit over a decade and so there there is something like so particular it's really hard to articulate but like being able to like hold the instrument move your arm in a certain motion move your fingers on the violin in a certain way to kind of actually create that music. Like when you're putting your whole body into it, like into playing and performing, like that's largely motion driven. So I totally resonated with that point and hadn't previously thought about like how you could transfer that to a different motion where you're like turning knobs. It's just it's wildly different. So I've really loved like that comment that you made. Yeah, and it's definitely one of the challenges I see with a lot of my peers in the medium, you know, and I think that's why some work, you know, matters more than others or why it had, you know, it just is more present and culture, even those, a lot of, you know, work can be brilliant and it can be technically executed perfectly. But I don't think that's enough, you know, I think people really in the end, it goes back to our human experience. Yeah, and how do you tap into those more emotional states when you're performing and even possibly like when you're DJing? With DJing, it's really reading, learning to read the room and connect with, you know, either you find certain people who are just like emanating that energy towards you and feeding you like a direct channel and you're just like kind of going off of that or just like the collective if you can really achieve like a body and it all depends also on the scale of the audience. But it's something that's really perceivable, you know, and I think like really good DJs is what they work on as well. Not just their their their music tolection and not just like the technical delivery, you know, I think it's kind of just like how some people can understand where to go, elevate down, you know, shift it and and also just when someone when really the room just is not vibing with like a certain direction and just like changing that, flipping that really quickly. And I think, I mean, that's my that's my approach to it because there's definitely a lot of people that come in with a set rapport and they're like take it, like it or don't, you know, but I'm definitely one that kind of likes to work with what I'm receiving and it is really perceivable to me. I mean, I just it's really evident when when a group unites and when they like it or when they don't. So in that sense, I am a bit of a people pleaser and of course I try to do my, you know, my research in terms of finding like stuff that's not really a common denominator and also like, you know, culturally finding stuff that's just a little further out than just like when anybody would receive passively, you know, like on the radio. That to me, all of that is really rewarding in in a deeper in that deeper sense that yeah, emotionally it's just bliss and the stuff that I would think or is even deeper than than bliss and happiness, you know, maybe this stuff that's like just, it really depends on on each project and I think that's why having intention when you're creating so then when you're performing and also the intention you create when you're designing the show can really just guide you towards towards what you're doing as like the human element in the materials and the machines that you're working with. So yeah, this album because it's just so loaded and to me, it just, it really just makes me sad. Does the happiness come as a byproduct of the sadness? Like are they interrelated emotions for you? Yeah, they are. I think they're both, I think it's more so like the degrees of intensity with which I feel so it's sort of like a form and content. So like feeling really happy and feeling really sad are both stuff that I value because it's like you know, like a feeling because oftentimes I think I can be really cerebral and I can be very mechanical when I'm working especially because we have to do so much work to be able to do creative work, you know, to sustain the practice financially and to continue to play playing the game, you know, like the creative stuff is almost like the reward. So I think like when I can bypass or overcome all the other challenges, I'm very grateful and I think even yeah, even if I'm crying in a performance afterwards, usually there is like just this adrenaline, it's there's that energy that's almost like not you or just like your higher self or whatever or even just your primitive self and then of course like whatever feeling I'm feeling and even if it was like a shit performance, I'm always just like wired after and I think that's why too like when when we were talking previously about like mental health, that's like a thing that's like super important with performers and DJs and like so there's like all the creative stuff and all the hoops we have to hop to get to our creativity but then when you are interfacing the work publicly like it's just you know it's just so demanding that then you're just like you know I'm sure you can fry your brain if you do it without taking care of yourself. Exactly and it's probably super easy to feel burnt out when you're in like the nightlife space and how much energy it takes out of you and I know we talked a little bit about this term on like post-performance depression almost because you're reaching such a high like such an endorphin rush such an adrenaline kick and then all the sudden you know the shows over the sets over and yeah it's kind of like night and day so how does that experience feel like to you and what do you do to kind of get yourself out of that like post-performance depression? It's really hard to navigate you know because I think also when you're touring and you're playing shows out of town there's also like all the logistics and the traveling and like just there's so many variables like that are to be considered for and then you have to like set up and then like to a sound check usually if it's a live show and then like get ready you know it's just like going through so many different forms of being before you then have to be like the greatest version of yourself in front of an audience and I think all of that already like is a tremendous amount of stress and it's also stimulating you you know like your cortisol yeah the cortisol and the adrenaline all the other survival basically like our flight or fight you know chemistry that it keeps us going and then there's like this beautiful thing hopefully you know or it could be really bad which is you know they're both again like two sides at the same coin it's just like a degrees of intensity is usually really high and then the schedule too you know depending on where you fit in in a program you know but oftentimes we're playing very late and then there's oftentimes alcohol that's part of like our writers so you know there's like this and that and then there's always a lot of people and yeah I think it's like really hard to sleep right after but then it becomes a bit chronic the more you do and the more degree of stimulation you go through so I think it has buried for me like touring in Europe it's a bit harder because of the time difference so I already have like a bit of a hard time sleeping and then yeah you're like now what like it's always just a bit of sense of loss or like a that release you know that it's almost like I mean now I can rationalize it but I think it's sometimes it's bigger than just like our logic being like oh this is normal it's a crash you were doing you were at a hundred and now you're at a 10 and your body takes time to like you know adjust it really depends but I think that sort of roller coaster is very challenging to navigate and having a routine when you can have a routine because oftentimes we don't control our schedule especially if we're touring but for me like after tour after big run of shows like I really like to just take a couple of days off and then try to get into a routine as soon as possible so that my brain is not like trying to figure anything out you know and I'm just like doing things until I feel better yeah you kind of need to like find out how you can get back to equilibrium because it's such like extremes that you're putting your body and your mind in so when you do try to like get back into that more neutralized state or at least like find a more stable routine what are some of your wellness practices that you like to do to stay physically healthy mentally healthy spiritually healthy like however you define what it means to take care of yourself. It really starts out on the surface for me so like like I feel like I am much more activated in my mind and in my spirit and my body so sometimes I have to like quiet my mind and being surface about it has really helped so getting really diligent about like my skincare routine for example like doing that and just, you know, you don't have to think once you have that locked down and just like knowing that you have to do it no matter what. And yeah, basically, and I know that I'm like helping my skin something that I really care about, but like, yeah, little things like that, like morning and evening routine first thing and last thing I do, the require no decision making, you know, you're kind of just like, this is what you need to do to be well on the surface. A bit deeper, just like with exercise and then finding one that you really connect with and for me is pilates. And of course, it's like really hard to get into because so much of exercise and physical discipline is momentum, you know. And like, so when you stop, it's not like, well, I've been doing it for two years. It's like almost starting from zero again. But yeah, so just like forcing myself to take those first steps, but that really helps as well. And then just, yeah, like stuff with food trying to, when I'm home, that I have more control because when you're touring or in shows, like really, there's so many variables. Sometimes you just like have no control over what, and you can't be picky, you know, but like, yeah, so when I'm home, I'll be like plant based and my cauliflower bread, you know, just stuff that really makes me feel nourished. So then I'm just almost like almost always preparing for battle and even in the calm down, I'm like, you know, trying to make sure the stuff that I'm putting in me will maintain a chemical balance, you know, is the homeostasis for me really. I do think of it as like a chemical economy. And yeah, just trying to protect that. The inflations and the deficit love those analogies. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like a, I think a metaphor just more largely for the inconsistencies of life, like how things are always changing. So whether or not you're a performing artist or whether or not you're like on tour, there will be weeks where things will just go crazy and like completely unexpected. And I think it's like really important to give yourself grace in those moments where you feel like you don't have control over everything. Take a deep breath and be like, okay, tomorrow's a new day, like these are the small things I can do to nourish my body, nourish my mind. Like these are the choices I can make and I can be really intentional about it and not feel like I'm 20 steps behind just because this week was crazy. I mean, like that's something I'm definitely working on. And it's not like I'm going on tour. That would be really fun. But just even like in life, like it's, it's so easy to feel wrapped up in just a million things happening at once. So it's like, well, what can we do to kind of keep ourselves back on track, whatever that looks like for for ourselves. It's almost like knowing when to hold tight and when to let loose like the grip of things. And just this is where I become like spiritual, you know, in terms of like that is the stuff that I'm not going to let. Gilt or like my neurosis kick in, you know, because like I think you see a lot of people then making it work, you know, I think when we apply the brain to these things and yeah, of course it's logical, but we can aggravate it. And I see a lot of people who develop a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms, you know, and like you almost kind of just have to be, yeah, be patient and forgiving in those adaptation moments is usually a couple of days, you know. And yeah, there's a lot of ways to like reduce that like spike or like that drop, but I think, yeah, it's like being forgiving and just almost like, yeah, when like writing away like and going with it in whatever direction the nature of the wave is. Yeah, definitely. And I like that metaphor also because I think there's something really like meditative about water and like even with my own practice of like breathwork and meditation, something that I like to think about is seeing like thoughts come in and out like the tide, like water coming in, then coming back out. And I think just that imagery is really powerful and just kind of like trying to live your life in more of like that fluid way and that's something that's difficult for me because all I like is control, I like to know everything. And so it's like to your point, you just got to kind of like loosen your grip a little bit. And I, you know, I'm sure just with your line of work and your passions, it's super complimentary this like way of thought with electronic music, like just kind of tapping into that more fluid, trans like meditative almost state. Yes, definitely. I mean, and even with like composing, it really depends on what project I'm working on. But oftentimes my general approaches, it is like, it does have this like concept art drive or meditation, which is like the results are a consequence of the journey, but like the project and like the elements of it. All of that is like what we put in place and then the thing takes off and the results, you know, or just a consequence or just a document or just a print, you know, and I think that is my general mo to life sort of. But yeah, I mean, I still obviously think having systems and plays and and know self knowledge and self discoveries really important to all of this because I think the important thing is to start to reduce I think like the detours, there's stuff that we can't control whatsoever, but just knowing how to get back to like the path and I think a lot of that is just self knowledge and having like a center to go back to. Yeah, like that self inquiry, I think piece is so important. Striking the balance where you are directional, like you know where you're trending towards where you're going to go. But letting things kind of naturally evolve to get there wherever that will be it's a really, really great point it's been so lovely having you on the podcast one question that I'd love to end our interview with today is something that I ask every single guest that comes on to the show. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day. Well, I think it's it's like a trick answer that I'm going to give because it's not something that I do to myself. I wish I had an answer that I was like I give myself endorphins in this way, but I think really hanging out with my dogs. I guess that's more serotonin, but yeah, I think just like having little moments with them can really reset me and just give me like an overall just like a wave of endorphins and all the good chemicals in the brain. So pets pet love for sure dogs are super therapeutic. I remember in college like during finals week. Like the student organization, whatever club it was would like bring puppies to campus to play with and I always wanted a dog like they're so sweet and great. So like that's an awesome answer. My conversation today with you has brought me a lot of endorphins. So thank you so much. Where can my listeners see you perform based in New York? Where can they go to find you? Well, I mean, I've played everywhere and it really depends. I think I have one upcoming show in New York in September, but I'm going on tour again to Europe. So for the next two months, I'm going to be away, but definitely they can hear my music on Spotify and my shows are announced there as well. Thank you so much, Delia. It was a pleasure having you as a guest on the podcast. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. You're amazing. Thanks for listening to this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard, make sure to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever platform you prefer. You can also follow along the Everyday Endorphins Instagram account to stay up to date with episodes, future events, and all things related to mental health while being in happiness. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things in life that bring you joy every day. Until next time.