Ep. 898: Marijuana Users Win In the Supreme Court, Sicilian Curses, North Carolina Elk Hunt

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The Montana is the first folder Josh Smith has built at production scale with a team of engineers and machinists who could match what he does on the bench. Head to M-K-C.com today. That's M-K-C.com. These things are great. You are going to love this folding knife. This week on the news show, Steve trespasses in Sicily. Brody runs his first marathon, and it looks like dope smokers can now get a gun without lying about it. A logging project that might not actually be about logging. Oregon finds a way to do something that more states need to figure out, which is finding additional sources for wildlife funding and habitat. New public lands in Ohio and Utah. North Carolinians are going to get to go elk hunting. Hunting right. States are getting an unexpected boost in Massachusetts and more. But first, our news. I just got back from Sicily. Oh, that's why Sicily's on the. The motherland. I had no idea. My great-grandparents are from Sicily. They're Sicilians. So, there's a couple things that went on. As a kid, my main takeaways from this trip. My dad had a curse. Like, if you hit your thumb with a hammer sort of situation. He would say what I remember to be. I remember it to be Votanabi Sheku. I have gone to a lot of Italians over the years and said, Does this mean anything to you if I say Votanabi Sheku? And they're always like, No, I don't know what that is. Once I was in Sicily, I didn't appreciate the difference between Sicilian and Italian. Huge difference. Between Sicilian. Sicilian and Italian. We had a tour guide. Like, you know, doing like a little tour around an old town. And I'm chatting the tour lady up at the end of the tour. And I said, Maybe you can help me with something. Does it mean anything to you if I say Votanabi Sheku? And she says, Do you maybe mean Votanabu Sheku? I'm like, That's it! And her response was, Wow! That's a big one. I'm not going to tell you what that is. I'll write it down for you and you can look it up later. Bad words. Terrible. Then I was talking to a guy, a youngster, 30-year-old guy. Long hair, man bun. I said to him, I'm telling him the story. He's Sicilian. I tell him and he's like, Wow! Yeah! That's a big one. It's a big one. Commonly used or no? It would be, what you're saying is that there's a lady of the night with an equine clientele. I'll leave it at that. Wow. But it's, yeah. Terrible. No wonder he just said that in Italian. And he would say that in a moment of. If he hit his thumb with a hammer. Like instead of saying mother, you say that. Say horse. Yep. The other thing that happened, this is one of the. This is another. This is another Sicily highlight. So we go to. Oh, another one is that we've been. I've been saying my name wrong my whole life. It's Rinella. It's Rinella. I've been saying it right all along. We go to this little dinky town. We're on this volcanic island. And here and there is like these little valleys. And sometimes it'd be a place where the volcanic crater like blew a wall out. And when it blew a wall out, it'd create like a little spot. You could put a town there and grow some grapes. And some of these places just have one road going in and a road. And that's it. One road goes down in there. So we have this. We have a driver and he takes us down to this little town, not far from Rinella, the town of Rinella. But we go down in this little village and we kind of want to walk. So he's like, well, just walk and I'll pick you up down in town. So my wife, my kids are wandering all around. And we eventually get where we just never run into the guy. There's not a lot to do. And it's very, it's rural. And we wind up, there's these rock walls and there's this road. The road has signs. We come to where the road has these signs. And I don't know Italian, but I know enough to know that these signs say private road. And I confirm it's private road, like in eight different ways, private road. We're standing there talking and this one old timer who's got like, he's just got a pair of shorts, no shirt, no shoes. He comes out of the bushes and he's kind of like wondering what we're doing. And then I see him turn. Turn a ball valve to like irrigate something and go back into the bushes. My wife gets the driver on the phone. We clear up where we're at. The driver comes down. We climb in the driver's car. He drives into through the signs. I say to my kids out loud, I say, I guess it's okay to drive on a private road here. Cause I have a very familiar anxiety from growing up when he got stuck driving on a private road. We start driving on a private road and also out of the bushes. Here's this other old timer. Mad. And I can't speak any Italian, but I've been in this situation. So I know exactly what's happening. The guy comes to the window and his basically, he's basically a mama Mia. You know, he's like Italian hand gestures and he's pointing. And without knowing any words, I know exactly what's transpiring. The driver is trying to take a, like, what's the big deal. He's trying to do like a, what's the big deal. And the guy is like, what's the big deal. And the guy's trying to do like, I can tell he's like, this is the 10th time this week. How many signs do I got to put up? But I can't understand any of it, but I'm so familiar with the situation. And the guy's doing a like super cash. The driver. It's like trespassing is the universal language. Yes. It was just, it was the best. And I, and I normally I'm high. I'm like, I'd be anxious in that conversation, but I'm just a dude paying for a ride. So I'm like totally divorced from it. And it was the first time I could ever be in a fire. It was like a fight, a trespassing fight where I like had my heart rate never went up. There's no consequences for you. No, it was great just to be there and see it. We pull away and the guy doesn't speak much English. We finally get out of there. We go back out and turn around, go back out. And he looks over his shoulder. He goes, no problem. So how do you pronounce your name? Rinella. Now you know how Elliot cows feels. Yeah. Now I know how he feels. Everybody mispronouncing the name. Now those were your highlights. What would your kids say? The highlight was going. We went and watched a, we went and took a boat out and watched a volcano erupt for a couple hours. Oh, it erupts all the time. Stromboli. Stromboli. You can swim, lay on your back, watch it shooting lava out. How was the food? Hit and miss, dude. I hate to say it. I hate to say it. Hit and miss. Hit and miss. No, I mean, not every Italian probably makes great Italian. Hit and miss. Hit and miss. Yeah. Some real highlights. Marinated anchovies, not like salted salad, like a marinated anchovy. That's good. Some of their stuff is, you know, hit and miss, hit and miss. That's all. Brody ran a marathon. I did. My first one this past weekend. Give me your biggest takeaway. Hold on. Before though, before you give the takeaway already, I want to know if my little message of inspiration at five o'clock. in the morning, did that help you? - Well, I didn't feel like, feel like you were inspiring me i felt like you were trying to disagree with my strategy so it didn't help um i went into that what was your question oh well like what's your biggest takeaway you ran how many miles is that 26.2 but you always here's the thing is you you don't know this because you don't run you never run 26.2 miles in a marathon it's always like 26.5 or 26.7 because you're not running in a straight line that's a good point so your watch is lying to you the whole time so you're like oh shit i'm almost done you're doing an extra half mile of zigzagging yeah yeah trying to go around people yeah go to get a drink but it was like it was cold and wet but it was a very great positive experience like i loved it did you have a number in your head yeah i did the number i did well close close i was a little slower than than the number but the main thing was is i was like using this as uh kind of a dress rehearsal for the one i'm going to do in september why is that one different because like i was using this one to learn how to do it because like you're in like the longest training run i did was 20 miles so like you're in no man's land for a while during the race that's the farthest you ever ran yeah you never run the actual i mean most people don't run the actual distance in training but like i figured out fueling and hydration and pacing like so that was all perfect and i didn't hit many people hit what's called the wall between 18 and 20 they get hurt they cramp up their fueling's messed up and they just they're dying right that didn't happen so like that was the coolest thing um a couple big takeaways was i learned an awesome trick which is you know those silicone straws reusable straws yeah so you take one of my kids own that annoys me yeah yeah um so the aid stations there's people like handing out dixie cups of like gatorade and stuff like that and they're like oh my god i'm gonna have to and stuff okay and trying to drink one of those while you're running sucks like it's like hard you can you want to choke on it you spill it there's a trick where you bring you cut one of those silicone straws in half and just shove it in a pocket like a little shorty you grab that cup throw the cup put the straw away oh really it was pleasant that's your takeaway other takeaways 26 miles that's what you got that's what you came away with straw user yeah um other takeaway is middle-aged lady runner runners are just like machines man really they just freaking go just better endurance something happens by middle age do you mean younger than older tolerance thing dude i think like they could be younger they could be older do you regard yourself as a middle-aged guy runner still yeah i'm not an old age yet oh yeah you still got 10 years so you're yeah like they just they just go man like i paced off a lot of middle-aged women runners because they're just very steady so yeah i'm gonna do another one it was great i loved it um it's five five plus months of training which was the the like the you like gave up fishing in order to train and turkey hunting i don't really understand that isn't there a way to have both for sure i did a little but that's why i kind of like made the focus on this one but then i wasn't going to do the one in september and now i'm gonna do it so you're gonna be like a big marathon guy i don't know i'm gonna do it i don't know i'm gonna do another one we'll see it's not as far as yannis runs how far down you run did uh one more question did you ever hit i know you didn't hit the wall but did you ever hit what they call like the pain the pain cave sometimes no like i definitely was feeling it the last 10k but like in a good way yeah the last couple three miles i was like yeah no it's good maybe that means i didn't go hard enough were you listening to some tunes like stroke race i listened to tunes forgot my headphones so i had to use my kids and only one of them was working and that went dead a couple hours into the race so i just raw dogged it as they say yeah i can picture saving stroke race for like the last mile dude stroke race is born to race see in the morning i texted brody i said is it today or yesterday he's like man i'm about to go i was like all right you ready he goes yep i'm just gonna run like a you know smooth consistent steady i said screw that i said empty the tank man let's go and i just did not reply and he didn't empty the tank uh you went ran another super race yeah net ran another hundo in the bighorn mountains of wyoming which calls around your neck no i didn't bring my calls that's this i thought maybe you were checking no i i did uh when you finish you actually get a belt buckle which i forgot to bring probably never wear again it says bighorn uh ultra run all over that looked good on you and i got this hat to wear it again so you know when you get a hat for running 100 miles you gotta you gotta sport sport it around was it different than the last time you ran 100 miles yes you get better at it easier course by a lot like in the crazy mountains you run on a lot of rocks shale like just rocks like we call them baby head rocks and they're just all over the place which when you get to the top of the mountain it's a little big deal a little severed baby heads all the way yeah it's a good metaphor because we all know what that's like but at 80 miles uh those things just are brutal because you just can't you can't run on top of them and then it takes a lot of focus to run between them and it just it gets really hard really quickly this trail was like just smooth dirt pretty much the entire way if you get way into this have you kicked around doing the tussock 100 and doing a tundra 100 no is that a thing make that up no i just made it up but you could that could be your deal the tussock 100 yeah where it's 100 miles of tundra he's done two 100 mile races i'm wondering when you think the threshold is where he'd get really into it like well what's the most times you've heard of anybody running 100 miles i ran with a guy wearing a kilt which at first you're like come on guy wearing a kilt i'm like oh i'll chat this guy yeah he said he said his chafing is uh much better in the kilt i think he said he was up into the teens now of of hundreds done why can't he just wear a skirt yeah you could wear a skirt just like a tennis skirt yeah totally i need to be plaid and made out of wool uh he actually wears one made by that company uh is it 511 tactical like make it like an adventure kilt yeah did you but did you hear about how it came about it was like uh it was a april's fools day thing yeah and so many people were like oh no we want a camouflage kilt that like every couple years now they make a run in these kilts anyways that dude was running his 76 100th miler what's that times 100 when we were 7 600 miles of races yeah he'd do the tussock 100 dude he probably could yeah his goal was to get to a trademark 100 of them in a couple more years yeah the tundra 100 the tussock 100 i think uh getting into it is i'm i'm approaching that because um you you finish one and almost the next day you're like what i could have done better like that's all you think about you're like oh i had good parts and i executed but all you can dwell on is like oh i had three to four hours of nausea where like i felt like i was just gonna puke the entire time and like everything shuts down i wasn't moving like what if i had those three to four hours back how well would my time be you know what could have i done um so yeah this all makes me jealous because it makes me feel like a cupcake dude yeah honestly it's not that hard i mean because you gotta remember they call it ultra running but it's more like uh ultra power hiking with some running thrown in i mean sure there's the elites that might actually run the entire course um the the guy set a course record that won and i think he went just under 18 hours and it took me 30 so he did it almost twice as fast as me i didn't sleep any on one bit not one wait when you're training though are you training one bit no are you training power hiking are you training running both okay i mean i just can't run up like our local hill here that we always run the m and then up towards bald mountain i mean you can maybe make it 50 yards running on those steep sections but eventually you're just you know your power that's my wife found that mouse yeah that's right that's right she's running she had blown right past it so yeah you're trying to always run and then you're running and then you're running and then you're running and then you're running and then you're running and then you're running and then you're running and then push what that like what your slowest pace is right that's what makes your pace faster throughout the whole thing and to do that you train by doing intervals or little short runs up you know mountains and so hopefully in a race your base level power hike ends up being faster than it once was so oh congratulations boys thank you yeah thanks it uh it felt it felt good um yeah but i'm ready to do another one for sure i am uh was the reason i was excited to do this run in wyoming big horn mountains are in wyoming is because i also drew a elk and elk tag in wyoming coveted elk tag you were like supposed to be like all buddies on wyoming tags and stuff then you went like totally rogue and i didn't even know you went rogue well i realized that especially on a hunt like this it's better that like if you want you can come and join me and help me out and then when you draw the tag i don't need two guys trying to hunt no because then it's just gonna it splits your time and it gets complicated and there's too much there's too much pressure at least for me i'm like i have 16 years years of applying invested in this and now i gotta split this hunt with steve i don't want to do that i don't need him cramping my style no but if you want to come glass for me and help me find a big bull i'd be super stoked on that i got something i gotta do but speaking of elk you will take his his waypoints when he's done i can't believe that you guys haven't used this no somehow i have this is the kiven uh bugle tube collapsible bugle did you take that on your run because it collapses no no but if you didn't see it beforehand steve actually thought that it was a water bottle i thought i thought it was for technical hydration that's roughly roughly where's that camera there it is that's roughly the size it is yeah so you put it in a water bottle holder yeah and it fits right in that pocket real nice and so when you don't need it the thing about when it when you have a full when when you're carrying around something that's always out like this like i the jackass is at home you should explain you're holding an elk bugle tube yeah didn't i not say that we haven't covered that i said kiven bugle tube right off the ball did he collapsible bugle tube and when it when you when i'm normally running with a you know a full length one that just stays like this you got to have some sort of a attachment and you sling it over your shoulder for most of the time when you're on an elk hunt for let's say 12 hours day dawn uh till dusk right you're only actually elk hunting for two hours of it where you're actually probably going to be using your uh bugle tube maybe you pull it out midday once blow on it see if you get a response right uh so i've been using this for two years i had a prototype two years ago and then this thing's already been out for a while um so i had the same version that you could have uh last year in my pack and um yeah it's just nice and tidy because you don't need to have some string you know looped around your neck you just tuck it in your water bottle pocket on your pack and when you need it can you tell the difference with the sound no not at all the sound doesn't sound collapsible you guys tell me i think it sounds great go man that gets the people going deep resonance sounds pretty good i think headphones on sounded good anyways that's the kive and bugle 2 from phelps check it out i'll be running it this fall my super bitch and so did you i don't want to give away details but did you like feel like you were kind of scouting while you ran or just kind of more getting a flavor for the flavor flavor for the range yeah flavor for the range i'm like within a couple hundred miles of where i'll be hunting they could feasibly wander over that way like you know you're going like that they will you run 100 miles in wyoming and then you kill the biggest bull of your life in wyoming the same year it's pretty cool yeah um just because it's my favorite thing do yanni knows how to make a noise of an elk real far away listen that's one way off yeah i love that man you're like was that he's close enough to go though uh oh this is a major correction because we really kind of screwed something up i was all shooting my mouth off about new mexico's um landowner tag program and the guy wrote in he was riled up very rightfully so yes rightfully so but not just in an axe grinding kind of way no no he's trying to do the good thing for humanity yeah he wasn't just trying to settle a score right he's right oh he just came in with a correction yeah great proper correction so he's gonna tell you about his correction here we go uh it's truncated but you'll get the idea he writes in for anyone unfamiliar with e plus or the elk private land use system it's new mexico's land owner elk authorization program one thing that makes new mexico confusing is that people often talk about e plus as though it's one program with one set of rules it is not the primary management zone is where nearly all of the conversations surrounding unit-wide authorizations take place it's also where most of new mexico's elk hunting opportunities exist within that zone qualifying ranches have two enrollment options ranch only and unit-wide ranch only authorizations work pretty much as people assume the authorization is tied to a single ranch the hunter is limited to it and the rancher is limited to a single ranch and the rancher is limited to a single ranch and the landowner controls access when a ranch voluntarily enrolls as unit-wide it earns the ability to receive and sell unit-wide authorization this is where it starts to get important yeah this is where you guys went wrong they allow the hunter to legally hunt public land throughout the game management unit and every other unit-wide ranch within that unit and any other private property where permission has been granted in exchange the ranch has to allow access to every hunter holding a valid elk license for that unit with the exception of the owner of the ranch of those ranch only license holders that includes hunters who purchased a unit-wide authorization from a completely different ranch and hunters who drew an elk for that unit through new mexico's public draw see i've read this three times i didn't get the public draw part yes yep exactly so you guys made it out like they're just getting away with murder and they're not well come on what's that i like it i this is my segment and i skated through without anybody pointing the finger at me because i probably said the same thing i wanted to say the same thing over again just so people get this yeah because what we were talking about is is i i said a few years ago i bought a um i bought a unit-wide landowner elk tag in new mexico a thing i forgot is that it was pointed out to me that that ranch has no elk right like this you're not gonna you can go hunting all you want you're not gonna find an elk there i had no idea that anyone that gets those can hunt any ranch that gets and sells unit-wide tags so when you go and say i want some unit-wide tags to sell you're really opening your land up to a lot of not just people that bought landowner tags but dudes that drew the units yeah it's a thing that came up was like how good are those ranches though that i don't know an answer yeah that i can't answer yeah like our lot like our are in is there ever a dude here'd be here'd be the question maybe the same guy i can write in are you aware of any ranchers who have boku elk on their ranch during season and do unit-wide tags i think he said in his email he says he says i don't do it yes so that leads me to believe he's got elk i think he but i think he said he had hunted yes he had hunted other ranches when he drew a tag through the public draw he had hunted ranches that had you gotten unit-wide tags and he was like use that access opportunity himself and yeah and he pointed out that he doesn't put his own ranch in it now my question would be and this is a great letter my question to him would be are you doing it because you don't want dudes running around on your place or is it something different i don't know he also talked about his place that e plus is not perfect yeah he just had a mischaracterization of it no gross mischaracterization that was that was a uh omission yep it was being wrong we're considering bringing back the correction segment that's a great correction that would have won phenomenal should have sent him some dacovas i failed to mention uh jim heffelfinger's here today hey hi quietly in the corner you haven't seen somebody in a while good to see you we uh if montana were to propose something similar to this e plus it seems like we kind of have similar situation where it could help people out that are like own a bunch of land they want tags on the regular and it would help put some pressure on these lands to move the elk around i don't know would you guys support it yeah as he's laying it out as he's laying it out yes transferable tags because 90 i mean i believe 90 of these tags are not the unit wide tags so i think most most of the e plus tags are the ranch only tag i bought a unit wide yeah hunted public land and was told that there's no i didn't go look but i was told by not by the guy but by other people like there's no elk on that place yeah i i'm i'm very leery of setting a president of transferable tags that are owned by private landowners did i say yes i should have said like i don't know if it led to if it led to access if it led to net access increase then i don't know and i'd be like let's talk yeah i'm gonna go sort of in charge i'm gonna go further i said i was leery of it i'm i'm adamantly opposed to it that was my recommendation at the end of the segment is i was saying i'm not condemning what they do and every all these places have their own histories and how they came up but i'm saying if i lived in a state and we didn't have transferable landowner tags i think my suggestion was if one were living in a state that doesn't currently have them and someone was proposing changing the status quo in order to make transferable tags i would say uh-uh yeah i would not trade block management for this system no way i think they all they also have a block management system in new mexico i don't know anything about you must have something to say about this i don't i spent all my time with my sons and my dad hunting in arizona i'm not that familiar with even next door their system she does have something to say about it in military families service is more than a job it's a legacy at american military university that legacy can help open new doors through education if If someone in your family served in the military, you could be eligible for reduced tuition. 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Visit drinkag1.com slash meateater and get an AG1 Pro Yeti shaker in your AG1 Pro welcome kit. Again, that's drinkag1.com slash meateater. Grab yours now. I got a piece of listener email real quick. This is just a heartwarming story. He says, a few weeks ago, you guys were talking on the news show about Minnesota sales tax for outdoor recreation, habitat, water, and arts. I just wanted to share a little story about it. What we're referring to is Minnesota developed an alternate funding mechanism, which was a percentage of a penny of sales tax that goes toward wildlife. And they're, they got a lot of money and they're doing great stuff with it, including buying a lot of new public land. Anyways, he says, my dad was huge on getting people to vote for it. He had hundreds of signs that he gave people and helped put them in people's yards. He was very excited to see that bill get passed. My dad, like any good old Dutchman, that's his racist thing, not mine. You know the Dutch and their signs. Jeez. Listen, my, here's what. My dad knew to be true about, he called them Hollanders. Didn't like them. Not that he didn't like them. He knew that if you went to a Hollander's yard sale, they would overcharge to the point where it wasn't even worth going to a Hollander's yard sale. He'd be like, yard sale, Hollanders? Yeah. I'll pass. No deals, no deals to be had there. So he's saying, my dad, like any good old Dutchman, didn't get rich. He got rid of the signs after the election. And over this last 17 years, he's been using them for all kinds of things. He uses his signs to pattern his shotgun. He included the photos where he's got his shot up sign. And normally when someone shoots a sign, it's for something totally different. But this is a guy, this is the owner of the sign shooting his sign. Recycle, reuse. He patterns his shotgun with his old signs. He stretches turkey fans with his own signs. When he needs to clean fish, he cleans fish. On his own, his, uh, old signs. The last election, even though it's not even up for a vote anymore, he put his signs back out again. I like that. I like that a lot. Put them in your neighbor's yard. That's the sort of victory lap. Yeah. He stuck them back out just to remind people about how they did vote to pass it. That stuff's great. Uh, oh yeah. When we did our yard sign, that one hanging up there. That's a great sign. I use that. And remember we were at first, we were going to do one side that was going to be a target so that you could get. Shoot. I don't even remember that. More use out of it. Um, but I've used that material a handful of times. I wish I had a stack of those. Oh, they're great targets. Wish I had a foresight to do that. Anyways, dope smokers. They can buy guns now. They can. Yeah. It's been, uh, I mean, if you're paying attention to the news, there's a lot of action at the Supreme court right now, as there is, uh, this time of year. Yeah. They've been tearing a new one down there at the Supreme court. A lot of decisions. Yeah. So there's, there. There were two major, uh, second amendment rulings this, well, I guess now it's July. So in June, uh, both went in favor of gun owners. Um, and well, well, yeah, the, the one went in favor of gun owners. The other one went in favor of dope smokers. That's true. Dope smoking gun owners. I feel like you should not say the question. Yeah. It prompted the question. And I want to, I want to hear about the story, but to prompt the question, well, tell the story and then I'll tell the big story. That's the biggest thing that comes to my mind when I hear it. Well, so I'll tell you right now. So there's two, there's, there's the case that was decided as United States versus Hamani has decided on, on June 18th. Um, and before we get into that, there is another, in order to understand why the court did what it did, you have to look at this other case from 2022, which is the New York state rifle and pistol association versus Bruin. And in that case, it had to do with New York's handgun licensing system. Um, where you had to show cause for why you needed a carry permit. Um, and the court struck down that New York law and what it did in doing that was it established a new set of criteria by which the Supreme court assesses the constitutionality of, of gun laws. OK. Prior to that New York State Rifle and Pistol Association case, what they did was they they asked whether the law burdened your Second Amendment rights and then weighed that with the individual's interest against the government's interest in public safety. Okay. Prior to that New York, uh, state rifle and pistol association case, what they did was they, they asked whether or not they were going to be able to do a new set of criteria by which the Supreme court assesses the constitutionality of, of gun laws. And so they it was like a very much sort of facts of the matter weighing two sides. And in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, they instead established what's called the history and tradition test. So under this framework, the court basically asks, does the Second Amendment cover the conduct in question here? Second Amendment cover the conduct in question here. And then it puts the burden on the government to show that what they're doing has is consistent with historical tradition of firearm regulation in America. And they basically are looking at early America and saying, is there something back then that that sort of can be used as precedent? Although that's not how you'd use the legal language. But basically, is there something in the past that says this is what sort of the founders had in mind? So in this in this one in this Himani case, the one that we're talking about with the dope smokers, this is a guy who his house was raided by the FBI in 2022 during a terrorism investigation. No, no charges came. Yeah, it's kind of interesting when you know the there's not a lot of news coverage. It gets into the full backstory, but he had he they found a gun. I believe it was a Glock 19. They found a little baggie of cocaine and they found some marijuana. He admitted to the FBI that he smokes marijuana or use marijuana every other day. And so then he was charged the other day, every other day, not every day, every other day. Consistently, recreationally, but not every day. Like odd numbers on the calendar. Never. On Tuesday, Thursday. Yeah. And so he was he was charged with three felonies. One for, you know, when you fill out a four, four, seven, three, when you're buying a gun from an FFL. Randall likes to flex that he knows those numbers. Yeah, well, I learned a new one. This is 922 G3. That's the that's the dope smoker clause under U.S. code. Yeah. Anyone that goes and buy when you go to buy a gun, they give you that little form. Yeah. And you got to go. I believe it's yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. No. Yeah. They change something like this. They change the questions around at one point. And I noticed it. And I said something to the FFL and he's like, good. No. Good eye. Basically, it's like, have you ever renounced your citizenship? Yeah. Do you have a restraining order against you? Are you a fugitive from the law? Have you been dishonorably discharged from the military? And if any of those is a yes. Right. Your purchase gets denied and they ask you, are you a dope smoker? They say, are you an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana? Or any depressant or stimulant drug, unlawful substances, things of that nature. Um, And so he got charged with a felony for answering no when they say you had weed in your house. Yeah. Same thing happened to Hunter Biden. Yeah. And he got charged with a felony because when he answered no to that, that becomes part of the FFL's record. So he got another felony for his answer becoming permanent records that the FFL has to maintain. I'm assuming he was a legal owner of that Glock 19. Well. Yeah, because he filled out the form. Well, I lied on it, but it wasn't like it wasn't. No. Yeah, he he he had filled out a four, four, seven, three. So anyway, he got hit with these three felonies, all stemming from the fact that he uses marijuana and he owns a gun. The court ruled unanimously for him in throwing out those convictions. Justice Gorsuch wrote the opinion and he uses the history and tradition test that I talked about earlier. And it's kind of funny because what what they looked. At was they looked at old laws. The closest analog they could find were old laws that pertain to, quote, habitual drunkards who are OK now, though. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, there's all there's you can look at this on a number of different levels. Right. Like but he he says essentially those laws only applied to people who were totally incapacitated by their drinking and not just users of alcohol. He said, you know, if you're you if it's just someone who uses like unlawful substances. It could be if you take your wife's Ambien every these are his I'm not just pulling drug references out. But he's like he's like by the government's definition of an unlawful user, it could be someone who takes their wife's Ambien to get to sleep. It could be a college student who borrows a friend's Adderall to to study for a test or something like that. Like they're very they're very they could be very narrow instances and the law leaves a lot of gray area. And so this is one of the issues with the laws. It's it's just vague. They didn't really address the vagueness question in this, which which leaves the door open for further. There are some people that would have liked the court to clear that up. Yeah. But they basically said that someone using an unlawful substance doesn't immediately forfeit their Second Amendment rights. I read this thing, though. I read this the totally wrong way. I like I arrived in the same place a totally different way. Mm hmm. When I. Saw the headline for this. In my mind, it was that. Now that though it's the weeds, not federally legal. You have all these state legalities. So when I'm filling out that form and I see a line and I'm in a like weed legal state, I'm in a weed legal state filling out the form and I see the form asking me, are you addicted to marijuana? Why doesn't it say, are you addicted to booze? Right. So that's when I was reading like that, I was like with with legalization and we're eventually headed to federal, it'll be decriminalized federally eventually. Yeah. So I was like, why are you pointing out this one substance, but you're not pointing out alcohol? It's like, why? Because alcohol is legal. It's like, well, weed's legal. Right. So they shouldn't be asking you about, oh, if you're are you using a thing that's totally legal that you can buy down the road? And if you are using this totally legal thing, you can buy. Down the road, you can't get a gun. That to me is a more, but it's compelling argument. They're not concerned with whether it's legal in a state. They're concerned with the federal law. I know. Yeah. But I just, I guess when I encounter that question that all, when I, when I'm doing my FFL thing, which is frequent, I always pause and say, how could that still be when it's legal or to make it consistent? You'd have to point out, are you addicted to alcohol? Yeah. Yeah. The interesting thing about nine 22 G three is that the language comes from the gun control act of 1968. And I was doing some reading and reading some congressional reports about this. And it seems like the way that made it in there was elected officials were just kind of like, well, this all makes sense. And, and just wrote that language without much debate or consideration because it is, it's just asking, do you use drugs? Or are you addicted to substances, which are not, they're not things that are established in the legal process, right? Like you sure. A court could say you're convicted of illegal drug use. Right. But you're asking someone to say something that there's no, there's no public process by which they've been determined to be an addict. Yeah. It's not like you get like a card. Yeah. Do you got to go apply for an addiction card? You'd be like, if you said to me, you know, I'm not going to go apply for an addiction card. I'm not going to go apply for an addiction card. I used to like to pull a cork. If you said to me, are you addicted to alcohol? I would have been like, I drink every day, but no. Right. Right. And the first, I mean, that's, that's the first step is denial, right? Like that's, that's what's so funny about it is the government's asking you, are you addicted to a substance? Most addicts are probably going to say no. Hell no, I'm not. Yeah. I'm in total control. And then how does the court prove that you knew you were an addict, but even though you, right? So it's, but there's all this vagueness. I could see if it said, if the form said, like, are you a user of an illegal, are you a user of a legal substance? But then picture this, if depending on what state, what gave me a non-legal state, Texas? No, this is, this happened in Texas. What's a non-legal state? Wyoming, I don't think it's Wyoming. Probably Utah. Okay. Let's, let's just say, let's just, let's just go out on a limb and say marijuana has not been legalized in Utah. Yeah. So if you're taking a federal form. And the federal form said something to the effect of, are you a user of illegal or controlled substances such as blank, blank, blank. Here you have a situation where a guy in Utah has to say yes, but a guy in, but a guy in New York gets to say no. On a federal form. What's going to happen to that? Is that question staying on the form, Randall? I mean, the, the court ruling doesn't change anything. Right. And, and another, how could it not change anything? It's the Supreme Court. Well, where do you go from there? I mean, it doesn't rewrite the law is what I mean. Like the court has made a decision that if you're convicted under this, it's unconstitutional, but it doesn't actually re it doesn't automatically go into us code and rewrite it. One of the issues with this, and this is something that also came up in the, in the Hunter Biden case is that it's. Can I refresh people real quick? Yeah. Hunter Biden bought a handgun during a period that he later admitted to being. Addicted to crack cocaine. Yeah. We're not talking about, we're not talking about weed here. We're talking about crack. Right. But it's, it's, it's like, it's vague enough that it's not, there aren't very many cases. Prosecuted under this part of the, you know, like, like whatever cases come up for lying on a four, four, seven, three, this is a very small, like single digit percentage of them. And so he made the case and Hunter Biden. Made the case that they were being selectively prosecuted because it is vague and they don't, and they generally, I remember reading about this in Washington state where you have a lot of people in Washington state being like, we want more gun laws. We want more gun laws. But then someone pointing out, you don't enforce the gun laws you had. And they went and looked at how many people they were prosecuting for lying on that FFL form. And they don't prosecute anyone for lying on that form. They'd never gone after anybody for lying on that form. When the, the AT or the, I guess it may. Yeah. It's ATF internal. It actually says like using drugs, failing a drug test or being charged with, with a crime having to do with drug possession or use one of those three things does not constitute a violation. Like if you were to say yes and you'd use drugs, uh, they say that's not a lie, right? Like the, the ATF internal guidance actually has a fairly high standard for what constitutes. Lying on that form. Like you might've failed a drug test once, but you can still answer no truth. Correct. That's like most of the things, most of the other questions are very binary. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a restraining order? There's not a lot of, there's not a lot of guys that be like, well, yeah. I mean, on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Yeah. You do or you don't. Right. Like, have you ever renounced your citizenship? You don't be like, hell, you know, one time. Right. It's either did or didn't. So I can see it. Yeah. I was joking about dope smokers and all that. Well, I think you'd like to know that marijuana remains fully illegal for both rec and comprehensive medical use. Idaho, Kansas, South Carolina, and Wyoming. Only four states left. Utah. What's Utah got going on? Uh, I didn't go that deep. Who makes it legal? Who makes it illegal for Idaho, Kansas, South Carolina, and Wyoming? Completely illegal. All the way around. Recreational and medicinal. I feel like Wyoming's kind of got like a little bit more of a libertarian streak, but I guess not. My son used to work behind the gun counter at Sportsman Warehouse, and he said, people come in, fill out the 4473, answer all the questions, and then he'd ask for an ID, and they'd pull out their medical marijuana card. There you go. As a joke? No. No. Like, all right, we'll throw that form away. Yeah, it's good they cleaned that one up. Oh, the other point I had, it's an easy point. Yeah. And I think that this is answerable. It's like. if you had to encounter In a bad situation, a high guy with a gun or a drunk guy with a gun, what would you pick? I feel like most people would pick the high guy with a gun. Yeah, I think there's, like, it's been clearly established that, like, drunks are violent. Yeah, a drunk guy with a gun. Yeah, they said, like, hey, man, you can go confront that stoned guy with a gun or you can go confront the drunk guy with a gun. I'll take the stoner. Yeah. Same thing with being behind a steering wheel. Who's better? Well, like, which one would you rather have driving next to you on the interstate? That I don't know enough about. I don't know enough about that. I'd take the stoner. Yeah. Any stoner. It's a legacy. If someone in your family served in the military, you could be eligible for reduced income. That is why O'Keefe's Working Hands Hand Cream is an essential. It's an essential part of any daily routine. It provides guaranteed relief for extremely dry, cracked hands with a concentrated, unscented formula designed to deliver serious hydration where it's needed most. I've been using it. Making O'Keefe's Working Hands Hand Cream effective, dependable, and economical. Visit O'Keefe's Company.com. It works for real. Throughout the year, I always sleep in some weird places. A lot of nights in the back of my truck, under the truck, if it's raining, I don't know, bombed out old campsites, whatever. I'm always sleeping somewhere weird, and I love knowing that the most comfortable bed i will sleep in all year is right in my own bedroom at home and it is a helix mattress helix is over 20 mattress models so you can find the perfect model for you because a good night's rest sets you up for a great day and they got cooling upgrades so you can get the best rest even on hot nights and helix delivers your mattress right to your door you never got to go down to some annoying mattress store they got free shipping in the u.s you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges the happy with helix guarantee offers a risk-free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress helix is the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like forbes and wired go to helixsleep.com slash meat eater for 20 off site wide that's helixsleep.com slash meat eater for 20 off site wide helixsleep.com slash meat eater windstorm logging stoners to storm logging uh i picked up this story from nate because i i saw uh windstorm logging and you know since i'm basically an expert on logging these days since we logged our 40 acres in wisconsin a couple years ago i'm like yeah this will be easy it's right up my alley turns out not a story really about it is about logging but it's just so more complicated so about a week ago the daily montana reported united states forest service announces emergency logging project over five million acres in montana and idaho and the basics are because of two major straight line wind events usfs made a plan to expedite logging operations to salvage timber reduce habitat for pine beetle type insects citing safety concerns and limiting wildfire conditions for those of you that don't know straight line wind event is like where you have it's like uh the temperatures change rapidly and you have like really cold air rushing down sometimes associated with moisture and it basically just comes straight down and then shoots you know wind and straight lines you know every direction is there a difference between a micro burst and a straight line wind event uh very similar okay when i was looking up straight line event wind events it looked like it was a synonym them you know we're just levels how long ago was that oh we had them here in gallatin county it was it was december of 2025 and then uh i think i think uh was it march or april of 26 and uh i can tell you because a snowmobile route that i like to drive and uh check for lion tracks on i did two days of cutting in december so we could get through it with actually a friend of jake's chase and then late in the year we had to come back and do it again because it just got wrecked by those i was on a trail the other day and it was i was like i pity the guy that gets up here on the mule and the like you're just not the idea behind the logging is they only have so much time to use that stuff for it goes bad well here here's the deal so to really get into the weeds of this you got to go back about a year um because yeah originally when i first read it i'm like great Originally, when I first read it, I'm like, great. We're making use of some timber that's already down, preventing more pine beetles. Awesome. But if you go back about a year, March 2025, Trump signed an executive order titled Immediate Expansion of American Timber Production. And basically in the four or so months following that, the USFS, BLM, Fish and Wildlife Service, they were all ordered to rework their processes to fast-track logging projects. I remember that because it was like the anti-climbing. The anti-Canada thing, right? Because we were using too much Canadian lumber. Yeah, I think one of the things that they say is that we should just be using more of our own lumber, right? So basically, the way they did that was that getting rid or at least minimizing all the NEPA policies, which is National Environmental Policy Act, rescinding the 2001 Roless Rule, which that's still in the works. Reorganizing the USDA in general around, like we've talked about this before on this show, like where the headquarters are now, right, for the USFS. They've kind of gotten a lot of people out of D.C. and put them in regional places. A lot less people on the ground to help work through this stuff. The key here is that the order treats ESA consultation requirements as a source of delay for timber and forestry projects on federal land, and it directs agencies. It directs agencies to speed those requirements up whenever the law allows. Farther, the ESA has an expedited consultation process meant for genuine emergencies. The order directs agencies to use this emergency pathway to the maximum extent permissible to facilitate timber production. And if you remember what I said two minutes ago when I read that headline, this is an emergency, right? So that's kind of where we're at. The backlash, like, has come because they basically slipped it out, this plan. It's like it wasn't brought out to any media. Some people got wind of it, and there was, like, a week-long comment period, which has already passed. It ended on June 29th, a couple days ago. So people are, like, pissed. So basically, I mean, I don't know what else there really is to report on it other than, like, ask questions. Do they got to construct roads or not construct roads? Oh, 100%. And they're pissed a lot. They're pissed along, like, correct me if I'm wrong, they're pissed along kind of partisan lines. Sure. Correct? Oh, I would imagine so. Yeah. If they weren't, we should figure out why that is and just trap it and bottle it up and sprinkle it on every other issue out there. I've seen one thing that makes it not an emergency with an uppercase E, but an emergency with a lowercase E, is sometimes this will happen when there's a big burn, is they'll want to go in. They'll be like, well, let's go do a timber harvest and harvest all the burns. And all you got to do, if you're an anti-logging organization, all you need to do is litigate it to stall it long enough for the stuff to dry and corkscrew. Because the trees dry and twist, and they're no good anyways. So if you can be like, if you can hold them back for, I don't know what it is, six months, eight months, I don't know. If you can hold them back, then it's like becomes, there's no point to it because the timber's all gone. But the lowercase E would be, if you're really going to go utilize this for real, you got to go now or else you're not going to be able to utilize it. It's going to dry out. That brings up another tricky point in this is that the plan is like a five-year plan. And so some of the people against it are saying, oh, really? It's an emergency, but we're going to like, we have five years to get this timber. By then it's called firewood. Yeah. They're thinking that it's just really opening it up to like just generally more commercial logging. I talked to a guy. But. connected to the Forest Service. His questions, and that's what sort of I think my takeaway is, it's just good to ask questions like, what constitutes an emergency in this case, right? Like if those trees are left, like maybe there's more pine beetles. We don't know that for sure, right? We might have a severe winter for the next four years. It might not happen, right? I think there's places where there's fallen timber over roads and near public use areas. Should that be cleaned up? Yeah, 100%. Fire risk would be uppercase E? Sure. I mean, that's like just a whole other can of worms. There's all kinds of forest management that has increased fire risk in our country. So there is a line in there that says, in quotes, and this project will contribute towards forest resilience, community protection, and ingress egress. There's the old sticker. So again, could be fine. Like I don't want to state too that for the most part, I'm like very pro logging, especially these days. I don't think I grew up that way, but the more I've learned in my adulthood, like I think logging can be great, right? There's a lot of logging that needs to happen. Yeah. Like good for habitat, good for jobs, good for economy, all of the above. But I think you got to do it in the right way. Yeah. It's like yelling at your kids. Sometimes you got to yell at them. That's right. But you should do it in the right way. Right way. Can't be yelling all the time. Yeah. The person I talked to said, you know, think about trade-offs, right? There's salvaging timber and limiting bugs versus the additional road building. You know, what do all those things do? They felt like, these days, you know, anything come out of the current administration can be regarded or regarding land management should be viewed with a high degree of skepticism because they felt like the economic bottom line is what's important to them. And then discussing environmental trade-offs is really just getting in the way. So as far as what we can do now, it doesn't like comment periods over, but I think you can still engage with the forest service and you can just pay it. And understand what the plans are. And when you're going to see them probably in action. And if they're diverging from what's supposed to be happening, you know, say something about it. Interesting concepts in there. It's tricky. Tricky, tricky, tricky. Moose like that kind of habitat, Brody? Sure. They love it. You know, I'll tell you what they don't like. This is another thing just to go back to step away from Moose for a minute. You get some of those areas like what you're talking about where all that stuff blows down. If we're just talking about a habitat issue, you get some areas that it becomes not usable. Yeah. Yeah. Game don't use it. Oh, for sure. They can't get through it. Just match sticks on match. Yeah. It's like you have, you can have huge areas become that like it's just too hazardous. They can't get in it. And then it winds up being that nothing uses it. So in those cases, if you can do it without like just tons of excessive road building and then future and then future of like massive amounts of traffic, go clean those areas up. You're also making besides the cuts, make good successional forest habitat. There's places. I mean, you can go look at places all day around here. There's too much blow down. Oh, yeah. It's like there's too much blow down. And eventually it'll eventually it'll be good. Yeah. It'll rot. And there's there. I mean, I don't want to say. I don't want to say big game maybe doesn't use it, but that doesn't mean that birds and small game aren't up in there and in a human lifetime, a human lifetime doesn't see this, but long-term shirt decays and all that long, long-term, but like, you know, if you're 40 and there's an area that's just too much blow down, you're not going to be when you're 50. It's basically for you. Hey, happening. No, here's the transition. We were, I was hiking in Missoula like a couple months ago with my brother. And I couldn't believe the amount of blow down, like huge root balls just up in the air from that windstorm that is. And that same trail, he's been running into a moose. He's run into him three times now. Nice. Well, he's drawn to that root wad. Taylor made just that's a transition. We're going to talk about moose in the southern Rockies shifting baseline syndrome of Shyrus moose in the southern Rockies. You've talked about shifting baseline. And you're a number of times, but if you're not familiar, um, shifting baseline syndrome occurs when, uh, each generation inherits kind of an altered perception of their world compared to the last generation, um, for example, like gradually forgetting what an ecosystem's original or formal state looked like. Yeah. It's like people that my favorite is when people say like, you know, boy, Montana sure changed a lot. I'm like, you should talk to the black feet about that. Exactly. Yeah. Um, so yeah, everyone experiences it. They just like forget what happened or they, they weren't like present when things were different. Um, so like my former understanding of, of moose Shyrus moose in Colorado was, and along with a lot of other people was that they probably weren't, this is just what I always heard. They probably weren't native. And occasionally they wandered into the north northern part of the state. Historically, um, a recent, uh, study. At the university of Colorado, Boulder and Nat Geo, um, they, they refute that, that belief that moose, that moose are this like non-native or even some people will even call them invasive species, which I don't agree with at all the invasive part. Um, and they did this, they refute this by tracing archeological evidence, um, historical texts, indigenous oral histories, and, and arche, uh, I said, archeology. Well, and dudes old photos. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to that. Yeah. Pictures, um, and like, you, you might like wonder like how this would even happen. Like, like this kind of gap where people are like, oh, they were never here when they probably were like, this isn't hard and fast. They're not saying a hundred percent that there was always moose in Colorado, but it's like leaning heavily in that direction. Um, and, and one of the ways that you, you, they figured that this was able to occur. That people kind of forgot about them as European settler settlers. Like they didn't frequently record moose encounters in the Southern Rockies, Colorado in particular. And then later moose were likely hunt in those areas were likely hunted to localize extinctions during like late 19th, early 20th century, like a lot of other species. Um, so by the time, like the forties and fifties rolled around Colorado, wildlife managers just had no knowledge or experience with. The moose and they just simply assumed that moose were not native to the state. They were never there. So the baseline was like incorrectly reset to support the idea that moose were historically absent. Um, so when, when a introduction or whether you want to call it reintroduced or introduced, there was a program established in 1978 in Colorado to cut moose loose. Um, they were class of, they classified those moose as a non-native introduction. They were class of, they classified those moose as an introduced species, not, not as a native species. Um, so another like example of this shifting baseline syndrome with, with, for that hunters can relate to, especially like people of our age would be wild turkeys. So like from the early 20th century to, let's say, I would say like in my head, like around 1990, like close to the time I graduated high school, it's like when we just started like seeing turkeys in places we had never seen them before. Um, so I would say like in my head, like around 1990, like close to the time I graduated high school, it's like when we just started like seeing turkeys in places we had never seen them before. Um, but like hunters for generations were used to just, there was very few turkeys around and then all over the damn place, they really quickly got used to having turkeys everywhere. And that's their baseline now. Um, and now we're seeing these like declines in population is like, what's going on? Um, so like that baseline might change in the future. Yeah. You want to be like, what's going on? Is it, you got used to something that lasted about three years. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But like, I remember like turkeys being like unicorns, man. Like they just didn't exist where I grew up and now they're everywhere. Um, but going back to this study that they, uh, they, they are using archeological remains. I said, indigenous accounts and early written, written accounts. So there's a couple archeological sites once located near Greeley, Colorado, which is pretty close to Denver and it's moose remains dating back 9,000 years. And the other one is Mesa Verde national park, which is like Southwestern Colorado, moose bone specimens dating back a thousand years. And the idea is that like, because there's a kind of a time span between the, these dated remains, like that, they're probably present throughout that time. Um, there's more examples of, of bones and teeth and things like that. Um, they do acknowledge like that they need to study these, these, uh, like remains. for further biochemical and radiocarbon verification. But so there's like hard physical physical evidence. And then you go to like Native American oral histories, the Hickory Apache in the northern Arapaho. They have language markers like words for moose that show up frequently. They have stories and songs where moose show up. So there's like, that's some major evidence there. And then if you go to 19th century, early 20th century newspaper records and photo archives, you'll find more evidence. And they're like, do we have that map, Reva, that first one? There we go. So this is like, shows all these records of moose sightings at a time when, you know, there was supposed to be no moose in Colorado. Those are just like some of the recorded instances of confirmed sightings. Front range media, local newspapers, archives, and pioneer diaries throughout the 1800s, frequently reported sightings along the front range, which is like not, you know, like the Denver area is not real close to the Wyoming border where they are considered native. And these historical accounts didn't like just note like wide ranging bulls. They documented cows and calves, which suggests a breeding population. And there is some photographic evidence too. There's a picture of a railroad worker from 1912. We got that picture, Reva. And he's standing over a dead cow and calf. He was called a tie chopper. A tie chopper, yeah. Railroad lumber worker. 1912, and that's Fair Play, which is like southwest of Denver, kind of in the middle of the state. Can't argue with that. Guy's got great posture too. Straight as a board. There's a Milton Estes. I did not know that's who Estes Park was. It was named after, but that's like a, that's a town right on the border of Rocky Mountain National Park. This old, can we back up for a minute? Yeah, yeah. This, this tie chopper? Yeah. Had to shoot the cow and the calf, huh? Well, shot the cow and then the calf would just stand up. They got hungry. Well, they're not native, you know. They had some hungry railroad workers, man. But there, yeah, a gentleman named Milton Estes strikes me as like an old time, like whatever, railroad baron or something like that. Yeah. He shot a bull near Estes Park and that, that area where he shot that bull is now named Moose Park. 1863. Yep. Can I, can I share something here real quick with you? The, the Blackfoot word, I was looking at this stuff because I remember it was cool. The Blackfoot word for moose, sixiso. I don't know, that's my just rough pronunciation. You know what it translates to? Black going out of sight. Yeah, that makes sense. That is. That's good, man. Yeah. Arapa, it's Hinen, Hinenhi, Hinenhi translates to big man. I like that. The other one I cannot, there's no way I'm going to pronounce which it references the moose's large flat nose. But anyway, so there's your evidence that there's probably, moose were probably in the Southern Rockies in Colorado and that they're probably native. If you look at. If you look at what's happened since, we got a map from 1982, which is after the introduction started in Colorado. It's a teeny weeny little spot there in the, in the flat tops area of Colorado where they, they cut some moose loose in, in the late seventies. And then you fast forward to the next map, which is 2015. And it's like. Damn. They're all over the place. And that was 10 years ago. Have they made it into New Mexico yet? Look at that, man. They sure, I mean, they're so close to the border, they got to at least end up down in there at some time. And yeah, this map was 10 years ago. That population. Mountain goats, but not moose. That population has increased even more in the past 10 years. So this shifting baseline syndrome, it kind of shaped decades of wildlife management and public perception of moose because they were viewed as non-native. So recognizing them as native. Yeah. And they were viewed as native. Yeah. They were viewed as native. Yeah. Yeah. evidence and and document that they were native it was at the fringe of the range in the plains but and then and then then you do this you go well sure but not a lot yeah yeah yeah but but also it looks like they've got a lot of evidence for for moose but the the 9 000 year old they need to stop using those kind of things because we had mammoth 8,000 years ago on Wrangell Island. Right, right. That's not really something. There was like caribou in Ohio. Yeah, and you know Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I thought about that. It's a legacy. Learn more at amu.apus.edu. Dry cracked hands can be brutal when you need to get work done. O'Keeffe's Working Hands Hand Cream. 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The Atlantic coast. Is that the Great Basin that's between California and Nevada, where they weren't? Eastern California, Western Nevada. And so you'll see, if you look real close in Western North Carolina, there's a tiny, little blue dot, and that is where in 2001, North Carolina introduced. a herd of 52 elk into Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Following about 15 years of population growth, 2016 the state agency created a framework for hunting and in 2018, General Assembly made a resident and non-resident license. Now, that's great, but take a guess at how much that resident elk license is. That's beefy. That's a beefy price. Throw a number out there if you haven't seen it. I've been looking at it the whole time. $500 for a resident license. That's cheap, non-resident, but that is about $450 more than I would picture it being. Listen, I don't think it's expensive to get the opportunity to hunt. Well, you must be relative to other opportunities it's expensive. It doesn't bother me. Well, you must be from California. I'm not saying it bothers me. You could almost hunt for a decade in Montana. That's an expensive resident. But there's not many of them there. It's gonna. I agree with you, Brody, because I feel like it's a great way to raise money, but it is definitely going to limit opportunity at $500. Dude, you can't do that to some kid. Some 14-year-old kid draws it. He's gotta come up with $500. Eh, he starts a GoFundMe, he'll be fine. Listen, if you're a 14-year-old kid, and you draw it, we'll buy it. Yeah, there you go. But you gotta be a resident. 14. I want to choose my words very carefully. 14-year-old non-resident, or 14-year-old resident elk hunter in North Carolina. If you draw as a resident in North Carolina, and you're 14, we will buy your license. And Yanni will come bugle for you. If 15, you're screwed. 15, you're out. At the time of draw, 14 at the time of draw. Well, you'll probably get some California 14-year-olds writing in, because their resident elk tag is $595. It's rich. It's a lot. Utah's $314, Arizona's $135. So, North Carolina, a little spendy. As a non-resident, which they will have tags for, potentially, $1,000. Yeah, stick it to them. Stick it to them. They're already spending all kind of money. Exactly. Like, they're, like, that's a, by the time they spend all the other money, that won't even matter. So, that takes us to today, House Bill 747, which passed the House with only one dissenting vote, and it's being considered by the Senate, and that would authorize two tags, one by raffle and one by auction, for the 2027 hunting season, which stretches from October 1st to November 1st. Oh, man, just to have that tag. Oh, dude. So, those license prices don't mean anything anyway. So, what do you mean? Because you're not going to win it? Because you're going to get it by. So, your raffle? So, the raffle rules, $20 per ticket, and you can buy a max of $30. Okay? So, you could put $500 in. So, they're not auctioning. They're doing a draw for how many? For one. One. Then that's a raffle. It's a raffle. One $500 elk tag. It could be. $50,000 if a non-resident wins it. Right. So, there's two permits. They're doing one by auction, one by. Oh, but then, so if you win, then you got to pony up $500. Then you got to pony up. I got you. I'm surprised that for one tag that's in the draw that they're letting non-residents in. Yep. Dude. Yeah, they should have a. North Carolina. Real quick. This is from a place of love. That's not true if you're going to make a statement on it. Because half of the raffle tags got to be reserved for North Carolina residents. And so, in this first draw, that raffle will go to North Carolina residents. Okay. The auction, which is how the other permit's going, facilitated by a yet-to-be-determined non-profit, that one is just your typical governor's tag auction type deal. Dude, this is the message for North Carolina. It's not too late. Yeah. These are your elk. If you have two elk tags, you cannot auction one of them off. You are getting off on the wrong foot. Yep. You are getting off. This is. You are setting a terrible. You are setting a terrible precedent that you're going to build a public elk herd. Your lawmakers are setting a terrible precedent. You're going to build a public elk herd, issue two tags, and one half of it goes to the highest bidder? Come on! I'll play devil's advocate though. Come on! People are going to say, what an opportunity to raise $500,000 to go to. No. So, I don't care. $25,000. I'm just saying, those tags. That's the argument. Both those tags raffles. Yep. I'm just saying what the argument's going to be. I would say both those tags raffles raise a bunch of money like that. You can't. It can't be that the sandwich shop guy, or whoever, that always buys all these, buys this. It's funny you mention that, because they did a survey in 22 about just elk support in general, and 61% of the folks are all for regulated elk hunting of local landowners. 19% approve of non-North Carolina residents elk hunting. That's great. They're making a huge mistake to auction. I'm not even getting into the resident, non-resident thing. Auctioning off 50% of your thing to the highest bidder, and removing 50% of the tags from 99.99999% of North Carolinians or Americans in general, and handing it off to the highest bidder is just shitty. It's stupid. We need a billionaire in North Carolina to step up, buy that auction tag, or just make sure it doesn't go to a non-North Carolinian. It's just terrible. They shouldn't be doing that. Do a raffle, do a draw. Don't do that. Moving forward, they have a rule where if they add another, they have to add an additional raffle tag before they add another auction tag. But it could just grow, that's good, equally. It could just be like two and two and four and four. There should be a t-shirt that says, you can't auction half your opportunity. You come from a big auction state. Jim, what do you think about that? A former auction state. Our commission stopped auctioning and we do raffles for those. We don't have an auction tag anymore. Nice. I'm not anti-auction tag. I'm anti-having half and whatever the numbers. I'm anti-having half of your tag allocation go to the highest bidder. Auction states usually take what? One in a hundred? Like a percent? Yeah. A percent? Two percent of the opportunity to the highest bidder? Okay, sure, that's fine. Two percent? Fifty percent? I could see it being, if it was a one-time deal that was just like, this money is to get the elk management, give it some legs, right? But to just have this be the perpetual allocation is not. Here's what I'd do. I'd sell it to the highest bidder and then raffle that money off. You buy a raffle to win all that money. I like that idea. Or something like that. What's with this don't name elk? I really like it. This is the best part is you go on North Carolina's state agency and they have all these recommendations on be an elk smart, be elk aware, yada yada. One of the bullet points is I quote, quote, don't name elk characterizing elk or any wildlife by naming them degrades their wild essence. The very reason people are drawn to elk is their unaltered independence from human from humans. Personifying elk as humans takes away from their truly wild nature. I agree that non hunters have no business naming elk. Coming from a guy who just named a mouse. Non hunters should not name them, but if hunters can't call them old picket fence, or old drop tine, how are you supposed to know what you're talking about? Colorado's got a whole anti-poaching law named after an elk. Samson law. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, but non hunters shouldn't name them. Like old cutesy whatever they name stuff. No. Yeah, I'm 100% against naming animals with researchers naming individual animals. And I have graduate students that start naming things and I tell them, you're not naming animals. Scientists don't name animals. But that's a different wrinkle I hadn't thought about hunters naming. Oh, are you kidding me? All of their target bucks are a different name. I didn't think of that. I mean, you can only say that one buck. There's going to be so many bucks under that one buck. Moving into another state that's near and dear to my heart, Ohio. An active listener and burgeoning conservationist, Josh Sheehan, wrote in about a 12,000 acre purchase of private land for state recreation in Ohio. I think this is super important because Ohio is one of the lowest rates of public land in the U.S. It's like 2.5% and they've just passed, the governor signed it, a $4 billion infrastructure bill, which covers parks and public buildings, museums, $100k for the Johnny Appleseed Museum, $25 million for Central State. Did you gesture toward me when you said that? Yes, because of the recent podcast. $25 million for Central State University, which if you're from Southwest Ohio, you'll know why that's funny. But $25 million of it is for buying state land. And that's that can be matched with $25 million in Pittman-Robertson funds. And they're looking at about 12,000 acres in the southeast of Ohio. Basically, the fracking capital of Ohio, which we'll get into. There's a number of public state pieces that people already hunt that they're adding acreage to. Richland Furnace, Shawnee, Tar Hollow, Conkle, and Cooper Hollow. And it's just going to broaden public access. the interesting tidbit here is that they're prioritizing sustainable timber management soil and water preservation and public recreation where it gets a little weird is that this is where a lot of fracking goes on and so you have there's there's a little bit of questions about are they just getting more land to frack uh it's unclear uh that that process will play out over the the future the coming years but i i called i called one of my buddies who's down there in ohio and i've hunted in this area too and worst case i mean you hear stuff like fracking oh no it's all just this uh cloak and dagger whatever but we we've hunted on fracked land you know if you if you have a 12,000 acre fracking operation you know they plunk down 40 acre little hubs and then you hunt the rest of it and so i'm kind of sitting here like okay even if it does end up going in getting fracked at least it's public that i can go hunt now yeah you know in egypt valley salt fork jockey hollow um those are the things that i'm kind of sitting here like okay even if it does end up going in getting fracked are all examples of that that it's still good access yeah um but keep your eyes and and that money then you know there's a royalty portion of it that goes to purchasing more um and where this original 25 million dollars came from is partly from these gas royalties um and so it's it's just nuanced but it is exciting that a state that doesn't have a lot of public land can get more of it and it's going to happen finally another great news story from state levels massachusetts modernizing their hunting laws um the governor put forward a note to uh update outdated laws updated hunting laws and reduce the deer population and she says it's specifically in relation to the spread of alpha gal uh these three these three initiatives she's got is removing the sunday hunting ban because they're between them and maine they're the last two sunday hunting bands removing the permanent disability requirement for crossbows so anyone can shoot a crossbow and then reducing the archery hunting set back from 500 feet which it is currently to 250 the the interesting tidbit here i get very excited about number one yep decreased enthusiasm on number two real excited about number three totally agree crossbows are a complicated issue um but yeah doubles your sunday hunting ban it cuts your weekends in half so doubling your opportunity is great um and the setback i at first i didn't really think that that was a big deal but when you throw the numbers to it and reva if you can pull up that that green and red map um if you were to drop like let's say a piece of woods and you drop a building in there and it's by statute you cannot hunt with archery tackle within 500 feet of it you lose 18 acres if that's reduced to 250 feet that standoff you lose four and a half acres and so applied to a pretty suburban area where these where whitetail are generally doing well and where there's a lot of concern about stick-borne illness as well cwd has a significant impact and so looking at that map all that green is what it currently this is this is a township uh norton all that green is what's currently open to hunting with a 500 foot standoff on the right is what it would be with a 250 foot standoff now it gets more complicated there's local rules and whatnot but the base this is the baseline yeah you never think of those i shouldn't say never you don't think of those standoffs as really reducing huntable ground but then you look at that map right there and it's it's like it's shocking how much it does and i'm i would have thought 500 feet 200 feet i would have thought it would have been 50 percent but it's the it winds up being different so if you have 500 feet you lose 18 acres a 250 foot standoff you lose four and a half acres and so just just applied to this township of norton right now it's it's about 19 000 acres the whole town off limits at 500 feet is 13 000 of those 19 000 acres at 250 only 9 000 is off limits or about half so your huntable acreage at the five as it can stands currently is 5 600 acres if you reduce that to 250 it goes almost to 10 000 at 9 700 or 52 percent of of the area what an interesting way to increase access yeah especially at a place where white tail are crushing it let's run the numbers with a one foot restricted area you have to give me some time on that how does this can't shoot within a foot explain how this is coming from the governor so that's the interesting tidbit she is a governor for anti-gun legislation yeah she's also getting re-elected this year and so a thought is that she's pandering to hunting organization and hunters who are a swayable demographic traditionally by giving some some throwing some bones to the archery i'll take them bones i know man i know or you have your cake and eat it too take them bones and then don't vote for it if you if you want so there's a lot of ways to play this the bills uh i passed the house it's sitting with the senate they're fake they're trying to get rid of it they're trying to get rid of it they're trying to reconcile um but you know just follow it uh sportsman's alliance has got a call to action um check it out on their website really good coverage there um and it's just it's good stuff you know take take what you can get um and finally like steve talked about oregon raised their overnight lodging tax by 1.25 for conservation it's great that's great alternative funding mechanisms did you see what gianforte said to the people in oregon that came up with the the hunting hunting ban legislation he had message for them he said don't come to montana i keep wanting to do a if we had better production capabilities and actors and stuff that worked here i wanted to do a skit series where that guy you know that little moby looking dude yeah the vegan guy that pushed for that did he where the day after the election he goes out to ranches to inform them that they that they have to wind down their operation it's like i hate to be the bear of news but ranching is now illegal so these are just a generally good news stories coming from the state level especially when there's there's chicanery happening at the federal level um so stuff to get excited about and stuff that you guys can can uh really have an impact on if it's if it's in your home state um the the the funding and i don't like when people say alternate funding mechanism i should point out for listeners the standard funding mechanism for wildlife at the state levels hunting licenses tag stamps fishing licenses like hunting licenses fishing licenses excise taxes on sporting goods pay for your state level conservation when people say an alternate funding mechanism sometimes what they're getting at is this idea that we should ditch all that stuff and have something different i like to think of these states that are doing supplemental funding mechanisms um and there's novel ways of doing it and and what happened where you do a percent like a a fraction of a percent of state tax puts a state in a position where it's being like doing great wildlife work and doing public land acquisitions hell yeah man yeah it's like it basically puts an extra dollar 25 on your taxes per night when staying at like an airbnb or a hotel yeah and most of those are people that don't even live in that state so screw them yeah and it raises 38 million bucks uh here's a here's a good one from utah this is this is an interesting one um this is this is another bit of like this is a kind of public land going public land okay the information i'm going to share with you is taken from utah's department of natural resources website so this is in the book cliffs area in the book cliffs area they have this 50 000 acre parcel of state-owned land but it's in it's a it's part of the school trust land okay historically if you go into the eastern states where you have townships so six 36 square mile townships like you got counties and the counties are broken up into townships each township is six miles by six miles historically you'd be like well how are we gonna pay for public schooling well you'd say one section out of each township so one square mile out of every 36 square miles will be given to the state to monetize in order to pay for public education in the western states you have a similar thing but it's not as rigid in terms of the township things but you have what we call school trust lands in utah they have this big chunk of school trust land and the school trust program works where it needs they have the option they have the mandate to leverage their school trust lands for purchase or for profit right what do you can what can you do to get the most money off them but they had this chunk where there's no roads it's a roadless piece of school trust land and they realized the best way to derive value from this 50 000 acres of roadless school trust land the best way to derive value would be to sell it and then take that asset and invest it and that's going to do more than what other kind of other business you do mining logging whatever on that land so this is this is a weird deal like the state moving money around so here you have the state school trust land holds 50 000 acres the state legislature goes and creates a pool of money what was the what was the price you see the price here i got 50 million 50 million bucks okay the state legislature goes and creates a pool of money 50 million dollars so that they can go pay the other state agency the school's trust agency the 50 million dollars to then turn it into a state game area And they're even calling it, they're saying it'll remain a roadless state game area. So it's a really novel way. It was already public. It'll stay public. But now you've had it that the school trust fund gets its money. So basically the Utah taxpayer just paid $50 million into its own public school fund. And what they got out of it was 50,000 acres of protected habitat in a really good wildlife area. There's a hook I didn't realize. I read a summation of this in a lot of places. The hook I didn't realize is that they are not handing over mineral rights. The state is not handing off its mineral rights to this piece of land. I'm trying to find this graph where it mentions this. Excuse the sloppiness. I got it highlighted there. Okay. In the press release on the DNR's own website. It says, It's important to remember that Trust Lands, that's capital T-L, so the school trust land thing, will retain all subsurface mineral rights and the access necessary to develop those resources in the future if that option is financially viable. So they've sold the land to the Utah taxpayers. They now have this land, but the school trust people, they're saying, unless down the road, we decide to industrialize it and mine it. Till then, it's yours. It's great. It might not happen. It's just an interesting little wrinkle. If I was the state, I would go to the state and say, can we revisit the mineral right bit of this? Is this a deal killer for you? Like walk across the hall to that office and be like, is it a deal killer if we take the subsurface rights? Yeah. But still, it's, you know, I still applaud the measure because this is coming from a state where there is, which has a history of being not entirely friendly to federally managed public lands. So this is great. A deer doesn't care if it's on state road, wilderness area or federal wilderness area. The deer doesn't care. He loves it either way. It's great. The subsurface thing is, is odd. We'll see if in some decade, they realize that the place is full of tungsten and, you know, the place is full of tungsten. And all of a sudden they're like, Hey, you know, we got to have an awkward conversation about that land you bought from us. You keep shooting that punt gun. They're going to need some more tungsten. That was bismuth. That was bismuth. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, this is the news show. Thanks for coming on, Jim Heffelfinger. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Join next week. And this is the only place where you can get news that ain't fake. That's our tagline. Right. I like it. It's a legacy at American military university. That legacy can help open new doors through education. If someone in your family served in the military, you could be eligible. For reduced tuition. If you spend a lot of time outdoors, you got dogs, you got kids, you know how hard it is to keep the floor of your rig clean. 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