EP #89 - Overcoming Injury, Finding Balance, and Prioritizing Mental Health as a Professional Hockey Player with Rob O'Gara, Fomer Rangers Player and Yale Hockey Coach

[MUSIC] That's when I had to take a step back and realize that it's not just me on the ice. It's like everything around it is causing what's going on out there. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday in Dorfins, a mental health podcast that discusses the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host Stella Stephanopoulos and this week I'm so thrilled to have Rob O'Gara on the podcast. Rob currently sits as the assistant coach to the men's hockey team at Yale, and he formerly played hockey professionally for the Bruins and also the Rangers. As someone who played a sport myself in high school, I was on a rowing team. I always love getting to interview athletes because there's such an intrinsic connection between our physical and our mental well-being. I think there's been a very big dialogue over the past few years in particular around the importance of prioritizing your mental health while playing at a very elite and professional level. That's exactly what me and Rob talked about in this interview. Rob shared his journey playing professional hockey from suffering a back injury to experiencing feelings of burnout and acute stress on and off the ice. We also chatted about how his experience playing professionally informed his approach to coaching now and how his perspective of health and wellness has transformed from being an athlete by profession day by day to now coaching. Lastly, we talked about Rob's perspective on happiness and well-being and what brings him a bit of endorphins and daily life. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this episode, but before we get into it, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Inker. Hi, Rob. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'd love for you to start out by sharing a little bit about yourself, like how you got into the world of hockey and just walking my listeners a little bit through like your path towards professional hockey. Sure. So I grew up on Long Island in New York and my dad was a big hockey fan growing up. So my favorite team growing up was his, the New York Islanders. And when he was probably like right around middle school, they won four Stanley Cups in a row. So they had a lot of success kind of in his prime years of fandom. And he passed that love on to me. I was a huge fan of hockey from a very young age and my mom actually has video of my first skating lesson. And I'm pretty sure the instructor just pushed me around in the chair the whole time because I couldn't stand up. And she is quoted as saying, sorry, dad, I don't think it's going to work out. So I'd like to think I proved her wrong a little bit early on. But I came up, I played youth hockey on Long Island, house league, travel teams when I came of age and back then, sound like I'm dating myself too much. But it was basically when you turned 16 on Long Island, you had to get off of the island if you wanted to keep playing at a high level. So at that time, I was kind of at a crossroads. I was going into my senior year of high school with all the kids that I grew up with, all my friends. And I was presenting with the opportunity to go to boarding school and mass choose it. And it came together pretty late. I was I applied in middle of July and I think the normal application process is in like March. I was accepted on August 1st and I had two or three books to read by the time I got on campus in late August. And so now I was living in a dorm with three strangers from swear all corners to the earth. And I was kind of thrust into this new environment. But I actually shaded the sounds. It was kind of the perfect thing for me and in terms of furthering my hockey career, my education. And so when I got to Milton Academy is what the boarding school was called. I repeated my junior year. My dad says I was left back. So I was in the 11th grade or again. And things happened very fast. So right around Christmas time, basically the college athletics deal like you commit to a school when you're old enough. And just in those three or four months between the time stepping on campus to around Christmas, I was offered and I committed to Yale to play hockey once I graduated. And that June after my junior year concluded as a very complicated process. But I was drafted by the Boston Bruins in the NHL. Kind of a lifelong dream to play in that league. And it's a big step in that direction. The difference between hockey and other sports is that you can be drafted and you can wait a while before you actually play or even have a chance to play in that league. So football, basketball, once you declare for the draft and you get drafted, that's it. Near your college career is over. And I still know that you're of high school, which is pretty crazy. So I finished at Milton and I went off to Yale in the fall of 2012. And I played my four years at school. Obviously I went to class as well. And I graduated in 2016. And when I graduated, I actually saw our last game. We played our last game, I think in early April of 2016. And the Tuesday following that weekend, I signed my first professional contract. And actually the next three weeks until the minor league affiliate of the Boston Bruins season ended, I played in Providence with them. So I was kind of finishing school and also playing professionally at the same time, which is a pretty great experience in that when it came time to really dive into my pro career in the fall. I had kind of gotten a taste of it. So I was able to graduate without any hiccups with the kind of being an absentee student. And then in the fall of 2016, I went to my first training camp with the Boston Bruins. And kind of that's where I feel like my pro hockey journey really began. I had a good camp and I did well. And I learned pretty quickly that it was a business. And a couple guys got hurt. And I had an opportunity to stay with Boston for the first few games of that season. I played my first NHL game that fall. And after three NHL games, those guys also became healthy as most do, fortunately. And I was unfortunately sent down to the minor leagues. And I spent that entire first year basically after the start in Providence with their minor league affiliate in the American Hockey League, which is basically like baseball terms, a triple A or just a step down from the big leagues. So I ended up playing professionally for five years. My second season after that first one, I was kind of back and forth between Boston in Providence again. And I was traded in February to New York Rangers. It was quickly found out by a lot of their fans that I was an Ionder fan growing up, which was their big rival. I think weren't super happy to have me in town. But I was able to play the end of the season with them in New York, which is a pretty incredible experience. Following season, my third year professional, this is where things get little bit of a mess. I played with their minor league affiliate in Hartford, Connecticut. And at the end of that season, I had back surgery. At the end of that season, Hartford, I still had a chance to play in the NHL. But after that surgery, it was kind of like those chances were we're kind of done for. Really the last couple of years of playing after that. Looking back, I feel really fortunate that I was able to. I didn't want to go out that way. But I had three more stops and I ended up in Hershey, Pennsylvania, in that minor league and playing with the Hershey Bears. And it was a weird year. It was kind of the COVID year. So it started late in early 2021 through the end of May. But I had a blast. And it was really a great way to kind of, I mean, in hindsight, to kind of finish my career. Although in that season ended last spring, I didn't think my career was over. I was training to continue playing. And the opportunity to coach at Yale really came up out into nowhere. Kind of a long story short, like that. To transition to coaching is often, there's so many different levels and leagues and even just talking now. I've talked about quite a few. To be able to start your coaching career in the NCAA, a division one level. At a place that means so much to me, like Yale does, was kind of once in a lifetime might be extreme, but it was a very big jump. And looking in the mirror a little bit, the body wasn't what it once was. And I jumped at it. And last year through right now, it was my first almost to the day. It was when I helped out of the camp with the coach and had kind of had my interview with him. And now I'm on the coaching side of things. So that's kind of been my journey through hockey as a complicated and roundabouts it's been, I'm happy to still be in the game. Yeah, well, I mean, as is life, I feel like we plan for one thing and then something else completely happens. I have a ton of follow-up questions from what you just described, but the first being, as you were growing up and playing hockey and you noticed, like, yeah, I'm pretty good at this and you would accomplish so much at such a young age, was the goal always to play for the Bruins? Like, was that always your north star? So I'd say that NHL was more, like, just in general, like, it could have been, I could name all 32 teams in the league. Any opportunity with anyone would have been the ultimate goal. Growing up in New York, I owned your fan. Like, when I was, when I was young, I mean, kind of like, even when I, if I ever get to play video games now, like, if I, if I'm, like, now I'm in the game, which is still crazy, but like, when I was growing up, like, you know, you create your player, I'm on the Islanders and, you know, that was my, that was my ultimate dream, but really it was, if I could play in the NHL someday, then that's what I wrote on, like, all the school projects, like, that was my goal. So, like, I guess you were manifesting it. In a way, like, you had it kind of top of mind and that was something that you would really, you would set your site on and you focused on. Absolutely. And there were, like, I remember very vividly, I think it was on that 16-year-old team, I was playing with the Long Island Royals at home, and our coach at the time gave us, like, a handout, it was like a motivational thing and it was like, one in 40,000 youth hockey players play in college, or something like, it was something crazy like that. I was, and again, like, a little bit of a cliché phrase, but I was a bit of a late bloomer, whereas like, I was kind of an awkwardly tall and a kid that I didn't really grow into my body until later and figure out my coordination and stuff. And it kind of clicked in that 16-17-year-old range and up until then, and even at that point where, like, I remember getting that sheet of paper and being like, you know, maybe this is a pipe dream, like, this is a little crazy. But it, my whole life to that point, that was the goal. Whatever it's like, I was playing, I was having fun, but I was pretty good at it and I thought I could get there. And then that was a bit of a, like, a little bit of a wake-up call. And then things happened so fast that fall at Milton that it was like, I mean, my head was spinning, but everything just kind of skyrocketed toward that, like, being an actual possibility. So, it was only very brief time where I had a reality check, if we all pretty fortunate that I was able to break through that. Yeah, totally. And I mean, it all happened when you were so young. Clearly, it seems like you kind of just followed your passion, like, you love to play. I feel like when you're younger and you're exposed to a sport and you just kind of keep up with it, like, it's a fun hobby, it's a fun way to get in physical activity, it's really like, community building, you're on a team, you're with other people. And I feel like, at that point, it's largely like physical activity driven, but I'm sure as we get older, we start to recognize, especially in the field of like being a professional athlete, how intertwined our mental health is with our physical health and how much of the game is largely driven by our mindset and our mental health. At what point in your career did you realize there was that integration? And was there like a specific moment or maybe even coach that impacted you in that way that made you realize, like, beyond the physical part of the sport, it really, like, there's so much too hockey that's more than just like the physical activity, like so much to the game that's around, like, your mental, your mental state. I think unfortunately it was more of a wake-up call or just kind of a rude awakening. I keep hitting you with all these phrases, but when I turn pro, like that first year in Providence, I did well. I felt good. I was having fun. I was a prospect. I guess basically that meant like the Boston organization had a lot invested in me and wanting me to do well and advance to being more about part of their, the big club. And so I had every opportunity. And even when I wasn't playing well or things weren't going right, it would be more of, hey, let's fix this and keep you going. It was never like, you know, you're going to watch this game from the ninth floor. And that's so then that following year when I was back and forth and then I got traded, that's when I really felt like I got my chance to show that I could play at the highest level. And I did. The hardest part was that training camp that following year. So the beginning of my third year and I know this, it becomes an absolute spider web of experiences, but that third training camp, I went to New York and I really felt like I had a shot to play in the NHL full-time. I had an incredible summer. I had that experience. Like I knew what was expected of me and I was going against the best guys in every drill. Like I was really doing everything I could in my power to make that team. And even when I was sent down originally to Hartford, I was like, okay, you know, I'm going to go down here. I'm going to dominate. I'm going to show them that I need to be back up there. Even that at the time, they gave me the, I was the assistant captain of the team. I had a lot of responsibility. That's when I think of all this pressure that I kind of, not inadvertently, but like I didn't even realize I had the expectations I had set for myself down there and I didn't meet them right away. And the first month didn't go well at all. I was where my play would kind of spiral into, you know, I'm not being a great teammate. And now, oh no, I'm not being a good leader. Like this is my first leadership role. And now, you know, this is all like piling up all of a sudden and then, you know, circling back and affecting my play. And I'm continuing to not play well. And I mentioned watching a game from the ninth floor. Now in this organization, okay, I'm now an older guy as crazy as sounds at like 25 years old. And that investment in me was dwindling. That's how quickly it happens. And I remember I was, they call it getting scratched. So I didn't play one of the games. Basically, I was one of the odd men out. I watched from the ninth floor and hard for it. And it had, I had an experience that in my whole life to that point. I was fortunate enough to never have that in college or anywhere to that point. And that was the first game I watched. And it did a number on me in terms of like my confidence was shot. I didn't know like, you know, how do I respond? Like, I'm supposed to be a leader on this team. I'm literally playing so poorly that they cannot put me on the ice. How do I bounce back from this? That's when I had to take a step back and realize that it's, it's not just me on the ice. It's like, everything around it is causing what's going on out there because I knew I could do it. I was healthy like the whole thing. Fortunately, back in one of my first training camps in Boston, they had a sports psychologist come in. He was Dr. Steve Durant and he was a pretty incredible guy. He was a rugby player. He actually lost one of his eyes playing rugby. My dad used to play rugby in college and it really is like an aggressive sport. So like, Kudos to every one who plays rugby. If you're willing to lose an eye over that, good for you, but like, that's insane. Yeah. And he, you know, he talked through his experience and he talked about some of the guys he's worked with. And just that element, that connection of, listen, if even if there's just a little something that's not right or, you know, not understanding how to fix your state of mind or reset or come back to, you know, you or, you know, what makes you, you know, feel comfortable on the ice. I stuff like that. Hearing him talk about that was incredible because he was a guy, you know, he looks like the toughest guy. He looks like, you know, he's been through a lot and, you know, he heard them say that and it resonated with me and I hadn't had a moment where I was like, oh, okay, I would love to talk to someone like that. Finally, I reached out to him. I was like, hey, like, here's exactly what's going on. Like, I, and he talked me through it and that was, it took a lot from me to do that. And even now in hindsight, like, I'm ashamed to say that because like, now I have an understanding of how much it helped and, how much talking to someone helps. Like, it or at least me personally, it's different for everyone, but that turned my season around. Like, I was a 180 and there was a big chunk, like right through Christmas, where I was playing really well. And I learned how to reset myself and how to, you know, remember what got me to that point. And then of course, my back got shot and that was kind of that. But that was a huge moment for me and I wish it was I wish I'd figure that out or at least open myself up to that a little quicker. There probably still is kind of like the stigma around like talking to someone and hopefully like in athletics there are things that are trying to be done to break that stigma or at least like make it more accessible and like normalize to talk to someone. I guess that's like what sports psychologists do. Like they understand kind of like what the athletes are going through and they're there to kind of help normalize those conversations. So I'm so glad that you had that opportunity and it was kind of that wake up call for you. But then like you mentioned you actually shortly thereafter suffered a physical injury like having to get surgery. That took you out of the game and just anything that kind of takes you out of commission. I feel like is just incredibly challenging. So how did you deal with like the new challenge that was on your plate at that time? Like after you had done all this great work and you felt like you had kind of resolved maybe those issues that you were you were working through with the sports psychologist and you were finally like getting back to the way you wanted to play on the ice. And then this thing happens like having to get back surgery. Like how did you get yourself out of that? Maybe the biggest signal at the state of my mental health being in a better place was that when it did happen. I was so grateful that I had kind of gone through that experience as opposed to like if I was at my bottom and then I got hurt like I can't imagine what state I would have been in. So I was actually grateful which was I mean in hindsight it sounds a little crazy but I like I like that is how I fell that time. I did eight weeks of rehabilitation because I had the last thing I wanted with surgery. Two weeks before the end of the season I was actually able to come back and play. Played two games and I felt okay the worst part so it was a pretty bad herniated disc and it pinched the nerve and I'd have pain all the way down my leg down to like my heel. Those symptoms were getting better during the day but my sleep I couldn't sleep. It was like two months like thin sleep a second. That was still bad but I was able to in the like I'd wake up I know like okay I moved myself like this and I feel okay I can do my you know I can live normally and the Tuesday after those two games all my symptoms came back. I was right back where I was and and I was and that was a tough moment because it felt like I was getting close to kind of you know hey I might have a shot at not getting surgery and kind of rekindling where I was but then basically that was that was that and to avoid further damage of the nerve surgery was pretty much necessary and and I got it done and then the next chapter kind of started and getting in that mindset of you know what now and I'll tell you when I when I came out of surgery all my symptoms were gone I felt incredible and I got I slept for 15 hours after my surgery and it was probably the best sleep I've ever had. It's I would hope so after all those months where you couldn't sleep at all you like your body needed it. I didn't move an inch and it was it was incredible and so this was uh April of 2019 I was getting married in July of 2019 so there were there was a lot of good things like on the horizon like like we are honeymoon and a bachelor party all this stuff and that first period of time basically I was told you know all you can do is walk and so I was living at my well at the time my fiance's family's house in Whelan, Massachusetts and I was training and doing my rehab in in Foxboro during that time I would just walk around their neighborhood like hours of the day and I'd listen to podcasts I I'd meditate like I I actually found a pretty good balance of like you know if I didn't feel good I was getting discouraged I'd just go out and walk and it really helped me clear my mind. You did it before COVID like made walking cool. Exactly and I found a good you know like if that's all I can do then I'm gonna do as much as it as I can until you know I shouldn't or my back hurts and that helped me get into the mind set of you know what I took this period where I could literally only walk the six week period and I took it head on and I did as much as I could I didn't feel like you know I'm a pack of garbage and and it set me up for the next step and once I got through that there were some doubts on if I wanted to keep playing and once I get through that time I knew I wanted to to keep going and I knew I wanted to give it a shot and get try to get back and and I was fortunate enough to be able to do that. I guess managing the ups and downs are or it's something that I didn't I don't know if I could have done again like if I got hurt when I was at my bottom before I spoke to Dr. Ant I don't know if I would have had that same mindset kind of tackling that rehab or even if I would have wanted to keep playing because that was really the first time my life some of those days going to the ring because I was embarrassed you know at at my performance and how it was handling myself that I'd park outside and be like I I don't know if I want to go in and see these guys like I it was something I never felt before and to be able to have worked out of that again like I was really grateful for that experience. Yeah in a way it was almost kind of like a blessing in disguise it set up your mind in a better way for experiencing like a physical injury. Yeah in a way I guess it's it's good to have the perspective to be grateful for going through those mental like hardships and challenges because it ultimately set you up for maybe more success when your physical health was actually impacted and to kind of get yourself out of that you need a strong mentality you need a positive mindset you need like those fundamental skills to help you kind of persevere and move forward. Moving away from your career playing hockey professionally now you're coaching back at Yale which is so cool to like be back at the school that you went to for undergrad and that you you were also playing at so can you talk a little bit about what the transition was like after like playing professionally and now coaching because you're still really young and so like I know we spoke briefly kind of about like this this interesting dynamic where you're coaching people who are not that far in age a few so I would love to hear you chat a little bit more about that. I'll I'll preface it so my our head coach he also started his coaching career as an assistant at Yale he played for two years professionally and then started coaching so he literally coached guys that he played with for two years. When I got into this I coached guys so this this year of seniors these guys will be the last group that played with players I played with and I thought that was a little close for comfort so then I think about what Keith went through and it's like okay you know it is there is crazy out there but honestly it it it was almost like that experience at Milton like leaving home happened so fast and unexpectedly my interview so to speak happened this time last year the guys get back on campus in less than a month I was going through my background check so I couldn't even deal with the team until like mid September so I was just thrown right into the fire and it was our head coach his name is Keith Elaine he's been a head coach at school for 15 years now and he's done everything in hockey he really is a special guy and he's not the kind of guy who's going to hold your hand through things he's going to trust you to figure it out and that you're there for a reason and our other assistant coach his name's Joe how he was extremely helpful and kind of like helped me figure out the logistics side of things like expense reports and recruiting travel and all this all this stuff that we deal with outside of coaching the transition happens so fast again like it there wasn't time to dwell on not playing anymore or to even like you know if I don't know how to cut this video like there wasn't time to say oh man like what am I going to do like I just had to figure it out I think diving headfirst into that helped me a lot and this past year with with covid was still mass and we had a short roster because guys left when our season was canceled the year before and our other system was new as well so basically it was a whole new staff too there's so many things and I could tell you a million stories about buses breaking down and allergic reactions and I'm pretty sure at every obstacle I could have hit in the first year of coaching we hit you did I mean like talk about things happening just so unexpectedly and having to put out fires and just deal with things happening without you every until you're done. participating in it. That's stressful, but you have to think quickly on your feet. Yeah. And again, that gratitude also, I was so happy. There'd be moments where I'd be like, "You know what? I miss playing." It kind of took a while, but I miss it. And then it would be like, "I'm still in hockey. I could walk into the locker room and feel that camaraderie and that. And helping these guys get to that, where I think they can be." Like stuff like that, like, filled the void immediately. And that's like, I really have a lot of fun doing this, but it really, it comes back to, I'm so happy to be in the game of hockey, because I really can't imagine myself involved with anything else. It's great that you had that experience playing professionally because I'm sure there are a lot of moments in your professional career that you can kind of reflect on and uses learnings to now actually be a better coach. So what elements or maybe moments from your experience do you draw from to be a better coach? Like, where does your inspiration come from? Honestly, like, what I've, the first thing I look toward where coach is that influence me and that stuck with me over time. My freshman year at Yale, we had, so keep coach-align was our head coach and both of our assistants, one is named Stan Mews and he's coach in the NHL now. Like, he's done incredible things and our other assistant at the time, his name was Red Gendron and he is a legend of the game. Like, we had no, in hindsight, we had no business having a college staff that that was, that loaded, so to speak. Red was one of a kind, unfortunately he passed away last year but we only had him for one year and then he took the head coaching job in Maine. And in that year, the amount that he instilled in, there were eight of us on the D-Core at the time, the amount that he instilled in us and just like he, he, the habits, he preached the seven habits of highly effective defensemen and we were all DMM and the first thing I sent my defensemen last year was a direct copy of what he sent us and how I wanted to base what I was teaching or trying to teach or, you know, even just figuring out how to teach and what was sort of taking my experiences with, with coaches that left a mark like Red did on me and try to, to adjust to somehow. And even then, like being able to see what resonates and what does in and what works and what doesn't and, um, and trying to adapt on the fly as much as I could and absorb as much as I could from the other coaches like that. Being able, I think, being, being a sponge, another, you know, cliche, I'll throw out, you know, like doing that, especially in such a new situation, um, I think allowed me to be effective last year and is really why I'm excited to, I, this, the whole summertime is recruiting so we're not on campus, we're not really coaching and one September hits were like back in that, um, and I miss that and I feel like I've, I've made so many strides to become a better coach last year that this hiatus of not being able to use them or continue to build that, I'm, I'm like itching to get back. So, um, it's, I think learning and trying to use the best examples I had was the best thing that worked in terms of making that transition. And what's really exciting too is that you're kind of coming up on your one year mark now and like just think about how much more you're going to grow and how much more you're going to learn as you continue to progress like in this part of your career because I feel like the first year we're trying something new, it's always such a steep learning curve and it takes time to really like get into the flow and like get comfortable and then like grow in that. So, it's only more exciting things to come. I have a few questions from my listeners who are into hockey so I'm just going to read this from my phone and I wanted to make sure that I ask these as you know and as a lot of like my friends and listeners know even though I did play a sport in high school, I never really like grew up watching sports or like like I literally fell asleep at a football game once like it's not good. I've gotten much better now. And I've like actually grown to enjoy watching sports like with friends and whatever but for those who like really know me sports have never really been my forte. So thankfully my listener community had some other questions that they wanted you to answer. So one is what do you think that the NCAA is doing to support students with mental health? I'd say it's more like I could speak for Yale and my experience for, I mean I mentioned like this past year was anything but smooth but the resources that our athletes have not only like there's a sports psychologist that helps our team and the basically you can make an appointment with them and sort of talk through you know what your individual thing was or is and have more of a one-on-one because they'll come in at the end of the year. They'll have their spiel and their presentation and I think that individualization piece is what's most important. And again like we mentioned the stigma like I think that things like that even just a presentation like picks away at that and I tried to and I know like obviously in my experience that's something that helped me a ton and telling guys like a few times last year like I'm in a rut like what how do I get out of this or like you know I can't get over this play or something like that and like the first thing I'd say is like I there's not much I can say because I'm not trained in this I can try to teach you what to do instead but talking to someone through it and figuring out why this is lingering and stuff like that it's something that really helped me. So having that resource to point to is awesome. Our head coach his daughter runs a mental performance basically she's a performance coach on the mental side of things and she's been an incredible resource for some of our guys and obviously that's outside of Yale but I think the NCAA it's more case by case like school by school but I think it's becoming more and more accessible everywhere because it's you see professional athletes talking about it more now than ever and that sort of exposure and that hey like that guy's the best quarterback in the world he's dealing with this stuff too and like that's eye opening and unfortunately that is what it takes sometimes to get people to open up and try it but we're definitely very fortunate at Yale to have those resources for our guys. And I think even just knowing that it's like a psychologically safe environment to be able to come to your coach or your teammates or whoever to express that you're like struggling with something I feel like is like the first step and so crucial so that's great to hear. The second question that I wanted to ask what has been the most effective method for you when it comes to optimizing like team dynamics chemistry building that like tight knit culture on your team. That mostly comes from the guys in the room like there were moments in our office where we turn to each other and say that this our guys are too close. They're back when I was at school that maybe once a week is a lot but pretty often there were some scuffles in practice where guys were just get ultra competitive and they go after each other and a couple of punches would be thrown and separate and that's that. We never had anything like that this year and the accountability is a huge piece and I'm kind of earing off track but we always like that competitive nature and that like you know I'm trying to make you better it's not like I'm being a bad guy like we miss that a little bit but that was because our team was so close and I think there was a bit of fear like you know if I go too hard at you or I tell you hey you got to pick it up like you might think I don't like you or or something like that and I think some guys were a little hesitant to take that step to answer the question you know they're going to be rid off of it. Our head coach is very professional in that until you graduate or play your last game he's not really going to be your buddy like he's not the kind of guy you'd approach and say like oh man my test was brutal today you know like and he's going to like elbow you and make a joke about it like he's you know he'll let the guys operate he puts a lot of responsibility on them to make sure hey like you know we're up for things where you know we're going to be a little bit more aggressive. close-knit group, all that stuff, and my dynamic is kind of being a guy that they can approach. And sort of understanding that our coach is not a guy that's going to pal around with you much by design. Whereas I can be that outlet. I can be a guy, you know, you walk in the door of the rank, I'll give you a fist bump and ask you how your day was. You know, kind of bringing that energy with me of positivity of, you know, hey, we lost our first seven games in a row this year. I'm not saying that my energy is what turned it around, but every day I tried to be consistent. And, you know, if the guys were down, I was always going to be at that same level. And that's something I always appreciated with our head coach, even though the level was a little lower. Not saying his energy is low is that, you know, he's not going to be that smiling guy. So kind of finding my area of, you know, what can I bring to this team to keep the energy up and keep morale high and kind of be that, you know, almost opposite force of our head coach. I think it promotes kind of an environment that has a better mix. I think that's what helped me be successful this year. And kind of, you know, gain respect, but in a different way than the head coach had. I mean, even as I listen to you answer this question, like it is making me kind of reflect on my experience in high school. And like every year we had a different set of coaches and assistant coaches. And I think there's something we said about like the balance of having a coach who maybe like plays, I'm not going to say like the devil, but like is it a bit scary? Like a bit more intimidating because it kind of like, like gets you to like focus, like be on it. But having someone who's like a bit more approachable, helped me at least to kind of balance things out. And high school for me was really stressful academically, like high school is difficult. Socially, just so much going on. And like stepping into the boat house, depending on the day, like some days would be great. In other days, I'd have like a horrible day at school. And you have to just like leave that at school and bring like your better self to practice. And I always found that like when my coaches were like these stable figures that were always promoting the sense of positivity and like encouraging me to like try my best and leave whatever was stressing me out like out of the boat house. That was something I really valued and appreciated. Because like I feel like as a player or as a rower or an athlete, whatever, you need your coaches to be those figures that are stable and like provide stability and security. You know, I think it's so important to have someone that's like approachable in that way. So just thought a little bit about that. Yeah. Knowing what you're going to get, that consistency, like that, I had coaches in the past that would be your buddy one day. And then the next day, it's like, it's like jekyll and hide. And it's like, all right, I'm already thinking about this too much. I can't think about what kind of mood you're in. So trying to be consistent that regard, I think it does help. Yeah, totally. Well, those are just a few of the questions that I had from my listeners. But my signature question is something that I ask every guest that comes onto the podcast. And it ties into the theme of what I discuss here on the show, mental health, happiness, finding things that light you up that bring you those endorphin rushes in your day to day life. So aside from sports, because I'm sure that's a big endorphin boost for you. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins or joy in your day to day life? So that, and it was tough because during the winter, all of a sudden, when we got home from work, it was when I got home from work, it was dark. So you had to move it to the mornings, but taking a walk. So we have a dog, her name is Maisie. She's a shitsoo poodle mix. And walking with her and Isabelle, my wife, once a day, like there were a lot of things switching because professional hockey obviously, like one o'clock the day was over. And now it was just filling time, making the transition to really valuing the time and removing myself from the rank. Like this last year, especially like being able to have that time walking with them was the best. And it was like that reset that, like a breath of fresh air, like that is something that I've, obviously I've always valued my walking, but walking with them at least once a day is the best. I really enjoy that time. Yeah, in good company too. So that's how it makes it even better. I totally feel that I don't have a husband or a dog, but going on walks with friends for me is definitely something that brings me a lot of entorphins. Yeah, you stuck in the rank all day for us and then getting outside a little bit. And I even say stuck in the rank. Like the first thing I was thinking of now, especially because professional hockey became a little stressful at times, I played men's league on Thursday nights and getting out there with that groove and that like like we're all here to have like that is, it's something that almost reset hockey is like this, I love this. And there was no stress, there's no thing. And like that's, it's interesting how that became that again. And kind of what I fell in love with in the beginning. Yeah, like you can reengage with the sport, not necessarily playing professionally, but doing it more for fun now. Like I see a lot of, like I feel like a lot of people who like grew up really focused on athletics, who then like kind of take a break from it tend to kind of come back. And it's, it's great to like still have that experience, I'm sure. It was such a pleasure having you as a guest on the show Rob, where can my listeners find you if they want to connect with you or follow along? Probably Instagram is the the one I've figured out the most. It's just Rob OG 15. And yeah, that's me. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure having you come on to the show. Oh, thank you for having me. This is awesome. Thanks for listening to this episode of Everyday Endorphins. 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