Ep 88. Dirt Bikes Are Supercharging our Mental Health! Re-broadcast of Dr. Domenick Sportelli D.O.

[Music] How's it going everybody? This is the Dorebike Channel podcast. This is your Host Kyle Brothersson and I am super excited about today's episode. Why am I so excited? Well it's because this is the most popular podcast that we've ever done. I listen to a lot of podcasts and a lot of times on podcasts they'll actually go back and kind of do a rebroadcast of something that they've done in the past. This is something that happened a little over a year ago and this is to date the most popular podcast episode we've ever done. I know there's a bunch of you people out there that are just kind of subscribed to this and you may not have heard it. But literally this is one of the most transformative podcasts that I've ever done. In many ways I think it is the most transformative podcast and it's with Dr. Dominic Sportelli. He is a medical doctor. He's a board certified adult and child psychiatrist. You might have seen him on shows as a guest host on the show of the doctors on CBS. He's a frequent news media expert guest. Dr. Sportelli is one of the nations go to experts for mental health care and the other thing is he's a stud. He's a he's a member of the Dorebike Channel community. There are so many cool, cool people inside of our little community. So many really cool people that ride dirt bikes that love dirt bikes and that find value in this. And this was a conversation that Dr. Dominic had about a year ago about why dirt bikes are super charging our overall health. I mean a mental health specifically. And here's a dude who has it all put together. If you've seen pictures of him, if you've watched him on any of these YouTube videos, not only does he have the mental health side kind of going on, the dude is ripped. The dude he's like Calvin Klein underwear model. Not that I know what that looks like because I'm not Googling Calvin Klein underwear models, but you know what I'm talking about. Here's the guy who has it all put together. At least from what I can tell. I mean, the dudes is stud. So I was super happy that he came on the podcast and I'd like to get him back on. But I mean, I've been, you know, looking around for possible episodes a week and re broadcast to get that to get the word out. And this is one of the most important conversations I've ever had on the phone. I apologize. This was a phone interview. So the audio isn't quite as good as if I had him in studio. But I tried to go through and find where he was talking and then just boost that a little bit and not boost where I'm talking to kind of even that out. So without any further ado, I want to bring to you Dr. Dom how dirt bikes are super charging our mental health and overall health. Here we go. Hey, Calvin. You hear anybody? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me? Okay. Perfect. I got you. Good. So I have you on a head set. So let me know if everything's coming through. Okay. So we'll be hands free for this. Welcome, Dr. Dom. This is Dr. Dominic Sportelli. For those of you who don't know who he is, he is a medical doctor. He's he's been seen as a guest host multiple times on the doctors on CBS. He's a frequent news media expert, an expert guest for in in this in his field. And he's he's literally one of the nations leading and go to experts for mental health care. But not only that from from from from a dirt bike perspective, this is this is one of the coolest people that we have inside of the dirt bike channel community. And I just want to I just want to like to our horn for a little bit here. And when I say our horn, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about us as a dirt bike channel community. There are so many fantastically qualified and just unbelievable people that we have kind of in our little tribe, little community. And Dr. Dom is is one of those guys. I mean, just in talking to him yesterday and we had such a fantastic chat yesterday on the phone. And it was just mind blowing to me. But you know, you see people on TV or you see him and they they look like, you know, they're they're so professional. And Dr. Dom is, but here's a guy who has been a street biker for most of his life. He's an avid hiker. I mean, Dr. Dom, haven't you you've walked from like the North Rim to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon? I mean, you're you're an outdoors type of guy like a like an an active an active lifestyle type of guy, right? Oh, yeah, Kyle. Thanks so much for the intro, man. It is such an honor. Let me get this out of the way. I'm actually humbled and honored to be on your show, man, because you have done forget about what I have done for people, right? We'll get this out of the way, man. But I mean this sincerely. I watch your videos with my kids just about every night. I have learned so much about dirt bike riding, about trail riding, about Enduro. And that's what that's what led me to reach out to you. And honestly, humbled and honored to be on your show and to contribute. And yes, so I've been an outdoor guy in my whole life, right? And and this is to me. I think this is where this conversation is so incredibly important and valid is that we all do things that try and help us emotionally to get through life, right? We all have coping skills and we all just do things to make us feel better, right? So what I've realized throughout my years of hiking and surfing and backpacking and, you know, wake, I mean, you name it. I've done it all snowboarding, seeing I've seen in Europe, I've seen all around the world dirt bike riding, trail bike riding, Enduro riding is so unique in so many aspects. And that's why I wanted to talk to you today and just get involved in this conversation because I know people love it. And I know people are doing it. It's just awesome. But there's, you know, there's really some psychological stuff behind this that I think is really kind of fun to look at, right? And really just interesting to sort of look at all the nuances is to why this is such an amazing sport on so many levels. Yeah. And your perspective, and we talk about this a little bit on the phone yesterday, in the last year, I've kind of been going through a little bit of a journey with myself and I've been, I've become more and more interested in mental health. I see a counselor to help me work through some things, which, you know, 10 years ago, I might have thought was taboo, but I've really opened my mind to the, you know, the, the, these other avenues where it's like, you know what, I've got physical health. I need to make sure that I take care of my body, but also there's this mental health side of it that I think, you know, more, more and more, it's becoming mainstream. And I know you're seeing this more and more with your practice. But it's, it's something that I think a lot about. And when you first reached out to me over email, and, you know, you said, Hey, I've got a couple of ideas. I was just looking at it. Some of the things you put down in that email, and I'm going, Wow, this is something we need to dive into a little bit more. And then yesterday, you know, in our conversation, I was just typing notes furiously on my computer here, and I'm going, he is, he has the medical background and the experience to articulate and give words to and give concepts to these things that I've experienced in the last decade, but didn't know why I was experiencing it. You know, I was talking to my wife after we got off the phone, and I'm going, Dr. Dom was able to tell me why I come back from a ride so so energized. And why I have like my heart full and why it's so connecting and centering to me, you have the the research and the, you know, just the day to day, you know, meeting with clients and working with people and helping people, you see this from a different perspective than what I think us as dirt bikers do. And you're also a gear head. You know, you've got you've got a beta, you've got a two stroke, you're you're out there riding stuff, you're active, you're doing all of these things. And so I just thank you so much for coming on because I think like I said, and I said in my intro right before I brought you on, I said, I have never been this excited to talk about dirt bikes with this little, you know, twist of it is like, hey, mental health, mindfulness, confidence, cognitive psychology, you know, so many life lessons that we're getting and get into like, proper is it's pro, I'm like, it's proprio, proprio, proprioception, proprioception. We're gonna get, I I butchered that. I'm like, I practiced that right before we got on, proprioception. But yes, so there's so many cool things that I want to dive into. And yeah, so just thank you so much for coming on and we can kind of jump into wherever you think is a good place to start. But yeah, let's figure let's figure this thing out. Yeah, for sure. And you know what honestly Kyle, this is this is the cool thing. And look, being a gear head, being a dirt bike guy, going out with people from all walks of life, blue collar, white collar, police officers, EMTs, friends, you know, electricians, every walk of life, salesmen that I go out with on a daily basis, right? It's funny because sometimes I get into the sidecast back down and they're like, dude, whatever, it's just fun, you know, why do you gotta analyze everything? But you know what, I think for some people, I think gaining a little bit of insight into like kind of that epiphany that you had when we had that discussions like, wow, man, that makes a lot of sense. And I think for a lot of people it might resonate, right? It might be cool. But here's the basic foundation of it all. It's fun. We love it. We have a great time doing it. And that's all that matters. But let's dive a little bit into like why that might be. And when I see patients, clients, when I see people on a daily basis, Kyle, you know, I'm in the medical hospital, I'm also in private practice. And man, Kyle, I can't tell you how many people are so anxious and depressed, especially lately, right? With the COVID stuff, right? I mean, well, we've been worse now. With the COVID stuff, listen, we're going through challenges of country right now. It's unprecedented, right? So it's kind of timely and helpful to look at what helps us cope and why, right? Being a specialist in psychiatrists, I deal with depression and anxiety and mood disorders. But even before COVID, Kyle, I mean, our anxiety and depression levels have been higher than ever. And without getting into, you know, other, I don't want to get pangeneral too much and go off topic. But, you know, I mean, we're really into social media like our kids are paying too much screen time. And you know, our priorities have changed a lot. And there's a lot of criticism and decrease in self confidence and all kinds of stuff that contributes to that. But I've seen this spike man in anxiety and depression and mood disorders. And here's the key. Ready for this. I'm going to say one thing that I think helps people the most, right? And it's this term called mindfulness, right? And yeah, listen, even when I first heard this as a doctor, I was like, what is this food food, new age mindfulness of like what is this, right? Yeah. But check this out. Mindfulness is basically being present, being in the moment, right? And why is that good psychologically? I'm going to tell you exactly why it's good because as researchers and psychologists and psychiatrists and neurologists, when we look at the type of people that are anxious, these are people that are living two days ahead. They're living ten minutes ahead. They're living, you know, a month ahead. In their mind, they're going, what if what if this happens tomorrow? What if that happens next month? They're worried. So they're living in the future, right? They're not present. And then people that tend to be down in depressed are the people that tend to live in the past. They're constantly in their mind about, oh, why does that happen? Why did I do this? Why did that person do this to me? I shouldn't have done that. I should have done this, right? It's people that live in the past. But my point is mindfulness is being present. It's being right here, right now. And Kyle, let me tell you something. I don't know if you feel this, but I certainly feel it when I am out on my beta or my KTM or whatever I'm riding that day. And I am ripping through the trails. I am in the moment. Yes. There is no other, my mind is not worrying about tomorrow. And it's not thinking about yesterday. I'm present. My eyes are scanning the terrain. I'm looking at what Boulder is going to come at my front wheel next or what turn I have to make. So unlike so many other things, it brings you into the moment. There's no room for your mind to wander and you have to be present. And that's the whole definition of mindfulness man. And that's why when we're in the moment, we feel good. And here's the take-away for mindfulness. If we can learn a lesson from that and throw it into our daily lives. And when we start to get anxious or start to get freaked out, just say, okay, wait a minute. Just like when I'm on my dirt like man, I'm going to look right in front of me. What is my issue here, right here, right now? And I'm going to do it. I'm going to overcome being present, taking a deep breath, saying, okay, wait a minute. It's not a month from now. It's not last year. But that stupid thing I did five years ago, it's right now. Right now. Just like when you're on your bike, man, just like when you're on that bike. That is so mindful. This is huge. That is so incredible because that and that is this life skill that we learn. And it's almost it's so therapeutic too to just be in that moment. We have so many stresses, you know, whether it's work or whether it's, you know, relationships or your children or taxes or COVID-19 or whatever it is. You get out there on the bike and you you you said that so eloquently. You are you are forced. You're basically forced to be mindfulness and be in the present right then because the writing a dirt bike. And we talked about this yesterday writing a dirt bike takes so much of your mental capacity that you don't have the luxury of letting your mind wander. It can't do it. There's so much happening, which is why dirt bikes are so different than some of these other sports like like street bikes. You know, you and I have both written street bikes. You've probably written a lot more than I have, but you you have time to just sit there and daydream when you're writing a street bike down down the road. I mean, the main thing that you're worried about is getting killed by another ride, a driver who doesn't see you. But you know, the road is just coming and there's not really that many challenges typically speaking, but on a dirt bike you hit the nail on the head. You've got so many that the terrain is changing. Everything, you know, even if it's been even if it's a trail you've been on before, a tree might have fallen down or there might have been a landslide or a wash out from like a little flash flood. You don't know what's around the next turn. And so you have to be there. You have to be present. And you know what's absolutely and you know what's so cool about this like as a doctor, right? I'm trying to help people. And you know, I'm in my office and someone has a ton of anxiety or ton of depression and I'll say to them, listen, mindfulness and you're like, oh great, what do I have to do? Go meditate now. I have to learn how to meditate, right? And I say no, no, forget about meditation. Go do something you love that keeps you in the moment. So all those guys out there, they're ripping around on their dirt bike, their two strokes and four strokes and ripping through the trails. Listen, I'm not saying go meditate. What I'm saying is go ride your bike. But think about afterwards like wow, put two and two together and be like wow, that's why it works. And try to apply that to the rest of your life, man. Try and apply that to your daily routine. Be present. You know, approach your problems in the here and now and I promise you you'll feel better. So you know, just like when I call a patient, you know, listen, go learn mindfulness and meditate, you know, four times a week or three times a week or 30 minutes, amen. If you're a dirt bike rider, get out on the trail. But just make that connection. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. That's I've had my wife tell me so many times in the past, you know, I'm cranky or whatever and she'll tell me to go out and go for a ride. And so many of the things that we are going to be talking about today is that therapeutic thing that connects us back and gets us mindful, gets us back into the present. And I love that. Just the fact that this thing that we're doing really does help us in a mental capacity, in a mental health is just so fascinating to me and it just makes me giddy. You know, and part of it is just because I'm being selfish and I'm going, Hey, look, you know, I can tell my wife, Hey, look, this thing I've been doing for 10 years, it's actually been really good for me. So maybe there's a little bit, maybe there's a little bit of cognitive bias there, but I don't think it is because of the background that you have, you know, with the knowledge that you have and the day-to-day practice of what you have to hear you talk about it is so encouraging to me. And I think we'll be encouraging to other. So mindfulness, I love it. What else? Yeah, and look, look, and here's, and a quick disclaimer too. I think, I think there are a lot of things out there that we can do that make us feel better, right? Like I said, I surf and I hike and I do all kinds of really cool stuff. And those are all great. And if that works for you, that is awesome. But speaking specifically to the dirt bike community on your show, I find so many unique things about dirt bike riding. And again, if we're going to talk about today, there are a lot of things that riding a dirt bike do that a lot of other sports don't do, right? So I think, you know, and there's so many bullets to hit here, but you know, the mindfulness being the foundation, again, being here and now, I think, I think a really, really important thing to talk about here too, Kyle, is what is it about getting out in nature that makes us feel good? Well, guess what? There's going to be a million studies about this. And when you look at the studies, and I looked at one from the University of British Columbia, right? Yeah. That when you are out in nature, and obviously we're going to talk about why a dirt bike gets us out where we need to be, when you're out there, man, you have this sense of being able to move outside of yourself and broaden your perspective. You see, you know, and I'm not going to get all technical with the psychological jargon, I'm not going to sound like Sigmund Freud here. But here's the truth, man, when your ego starts to get too important, we tend to get a little unhappy and kind of focused on ourselves and we could be a little bit selfish. When you get out, right? I mean, and I've seen your videos, man, and I've been to some amazing places. Those drone footage, the drone footage, man, like you make it to the top of one of those hills, man, and you look around, you have to, whether it's subconscious or not, move outside yourself and say, oh my god, there is so much bigger and better out there than me. I'm just a small piece of this and that is humbling and it's so good for you. It broadens your perspective, it decreases the ego, it allows you to move outside yourself and everyone, just about everyone that does that when they read, when they do surveys, if report improved psychological overall well-being. Imagine that, right? So you're on a dirt bike, right? And we just think that you're just I'm talking about this and I was thinking about this myself and I was like, "In the two hours that I have on my dirt bike, on my two-stroke right now, the amount of nature that I am able to see, and the places that I can go to, right? I can never do with any other means, I can't do it, I just can't do what I can't do it in my car, I can't do it in my Jeep, I can't do it on a quad." That dirt bike is like wings of an airplane that allow you to travel to places that you will never be able to see otherwise in that time period, right? So if you can get on that dirt bike for two, four or five hours, man, you are seeing stuff no doubt and experiencing nature that you never would have been able to see or experience before, and then have that sense of broadening perspectives and just looking around and going, "Wow, man, the world is a beautiful, amazing place, and I'm just a small piece of this, and that tumbling and good for a soul." You know, when I hear you talk about that, what it really says to me, it's almost like super, so we're talking about being connected to nature and getting outside of ourselves and realizing that there's bigger pieces than me, and riding the dirt bike through those, through that train, it's almost like it's super charging it because I've had this conversation with people where, technically you could see some of this stuff if you did a hike, but it would take you a week. So on that four hour ride that you're talking about on your dirt bike to hike that, legitimately would take you maybe four to seven days depending. If you did it on a horse, what you could also do, that would take you two days, but you did it on your dirt bike in just an afternoon, and so it's almost like super charging this connection to nature, and obviously there would be some people say, "Well, you're going so fast, you're missing so much," and there's some of that too. But just the amount of vistas and the amount of scenery and terrain that you can cover, I think that maybe has its own kind of quality to it. Would you agree with that or what are your thoughts on that, just the fact that you can see so much in a short amount of time. Does that play into this a little bit too? Of course it does because unless you're talking to a guy that hiked the North Room, the Grand Canyon, to the South Room, the Grand Canyon, across the Colorado River, it took me six days. You know, and you know, hiking miles and miles per day, and that is, I mean, talk about soul recharging and beautiful and extravagant and amazing. But if I'm home and I'm working and I'm busy and I have two hours and I have three hours, man, and I'm up in the Northeast, right? Where we go from city to rolling hills in 30 minutes if we need to, I can get away from this grind, this heavy, heavy grind of the Northeast in 40 minutes. And it changes my entire day. I'm going to say it changes my whole week. So just like you said, it's like a supercharged way of getting that, right? Like if I need to hike the Grand Canyon, I got to take 10 days off of work and I got to fly out there and that's awesome, right? But dirt by grinding allows us to do it in a more expedited way, right? And we get to these places and they let me tell you, you know, from my house, and I'm in Northern New Jersey, right? So it's a very congested state. And literally I'm 30 minutes outside Manhattan. But man, I take my bait in the trails and I'm out there for an hour and I pull over some vista at the top of the mountain. And I go, my God, where am I? It's just like West Virginia. I mean, it's gorgeous. You know, so it allows me to do that where I couldn't do that any other way. How else could I possibly do that? The trails that I'm getting to those locations, I couldn't do it on a quad. I couldn't do it with my car. Like I said, so that that dirt bike in that garage for me is like this man. It's like this magical machine that can transport me to these places that I couldn't do any other way, basically. Exactly. And I feel like just in my, from my standpoint, some of the places that you can go on a dirt bike, because the fact that you only have, you know, two wheels lined up with each other, that allows us to get back into some of these gnarlier, more remote places. And also dirt bikers just kind of have a screw loose sometimes. So sometimes when they've made trails, they go in places that no one else would really go to. And for me, there's a, there's a quality, a quality in that part of itself. We've been in Vista's here in the Rocky Mountains in Idaho and Utah, where you, you get in these really remote places. And it just, it almost helps me because in Utah sometimes we'll, we'll, be up on a mountain top and we'll, we can see the city. Then we'll go to Idaho and you get on a mountain top and you see mountain range after mountain range after mountain range and no city. And you realize how isolated you are. And for me, and that, that happened, that would happen in the Grand Canyon too, right? I mean, you'd be down there. You wouldn't see a person for maybe four or five days. There's something about those types of experiences, help to center me and to recharge me. And, and, you know, we've mentioned that, but that's, it's something so unique to dirt bikes because it can get you there quickly. It can get you into these areas that you wouldn't see any other way. And it's just, that's a beautiful thing. And, and you know what else to Kyle about it? And we're talking about, we're talking specifically about connecting with nature. And that's true nature. Now, listen, I'm an average fear and a snowboarder. And even if I go out west, I'm going to stand on a line. I'm going to pay for a ticket. I'm going to get on a ski lift. But the man made that can take me up to the top of the hill that's been groomed by a machine. Right? So there's still this industrial quality to it. Right? That brings you back into sort of like, you know, society, I guess, right? Like just the machinery of society. But dirt bike specifically think about it. I mean, you're not paying admission. It's not a trail that was made by incorporation. You're getting out there. It's, it's really just reducing everything to its lowest common denominator of nature. You know what I mean? So that to me too is a really important thing. I'm literally going places that no one else is going. And no one's like making money off of it. This is like, I'm going out there and it's real. It's just real deal. It's just me with that trail that maybe a couple other bikes, maybe a couple of weeks ago made, or maybe I'll make it my own trail. Right? So it truly brings you to that deep, natural connection. And that's the psychological part that makes us feel more in tune with nature. And that makes us feel less, you know, the bridge that ego down and changes our perspectives. And to me, that's just priceless. Yeah, I love that from the mental health standpoint of it. Can we talk about confidence a little bit? I know we talked about that yesterday. And why confidence is important for us neurologically and psychologically. And how the dirt bikes play into that side of it. Can we can we talk about that? Yeah, for sure. Now, like think about confidence. And the way I like to break it down Kyle, is let's do it. Let's do it by definition. Like what is confidence? What does that even mean? The way we describe it is confidence is a belief of how good you can be at something. Now, it's not your actual skill level. Isn't that surprising? Confidence is your belief. Your belief in yourself of how good you can be. And anytime that we do a psychological study on somebody, when people have a perceived sense of improved self-confidence, they're more positive, just positive and optimistic, they're happier, and they have an increase in what we call resilience. Which resilience means that you're more apt to try things and fail at them, and put eventually more able to get a positive outcome. So that's the definition of confidence. And how dirt biking improves confidence to me, I mean think about it. We chose for whatever reason. And listen, you know what they say about psychiatrists, we're all little nuts, right? We chose a hobby that is incredibly challenging. Incredibly challenging, right? You get on those two wheels and listen, I don't care how good you are. And I'm not saying that I'm good. I'm novice at that. They've been riding for three years. I hit some gnarly stuff out in New Jersey, which just getting through a ride without breaking something on your bike or hurting yourself, I consider it a success, right? Yes. So, which isn't great. But every time I go out, my confidence is pasted every single time. And here's the best part. It's not a competition. I'm not entering a race, right? I'm not judged by a time or a lap or to my peers. I'm judged by myself. But what I can accomplish, what I was afraid of and what I overcame. Because every time I'm out on the trail, there's a bigger log out there that maybe the last time I was afraid to get over. Or a bigger ledge or whatever or a stream that I was like, "You know what? I'm not crossing that." But you do it. And then when you do it, you build that confidence. It's like this personal exercise in overcoming and building confidence. It's just really, really amazing. So, dirt bike riding builds confidence without the need for competition, without the need for entering a race. It's personal and then what happens is, as you gain that confidence, like I said, more positive, generally happier, more resilient, right? More positive outcomes, more likely to try things in the future, right? So no doubt. And I mean, I'm sure you could share some personal stories of how you build confidence. And I'll tell you what. I'm going to take this a step further. I'm going to take this a step to the videos that I see with your kit. And me, myself, teaching my kids how to ride, talk about teaching someone resilience, falling down and getting up, doing something that's scary and getting over it, overcoming it, right? dirt bike riding is very unique in that way. And look, all sports do that, right? We all fall down. You get on a snowboard. You fall down 20 times. You get up. You finally get it. But painting a two-stroke or four-stroke dirt bike, 30 miles in the middle of the woods, and going over things and getting home safely does something I think pretty unique. Yeah, it does. And the thing I loved about hearing you break it down about why that is making me feel more whole as an individual. I think back to when I first started in dirt bikes, I've done a lot of different hobbies in my life. And when I was getting started in dirt bikes, I was still doing long-range shooting, rifle shooting, and a lot of guitar. I see in your Instagram feed here that looks like your guitar player as well. I played a lot of guitar, but I had to put. I wasn't talented enough at guitar that it came easy to me. And so I would have to play guitar, believe it or not, for an hour a day or I would digress. And I was never really any good if we're dead honest. But I started riding dirt bikes, and immediately I could see progression. I was only riding once a week or even once every other week. And I was still progressing. And what that did, and I'm just looking back on it, after hearing you talk about this, what that did for me is it gave me some additional self-confidence. It gave me some additional self-worth that I hadn't gotten from other activities. And it increased my happiness so much. It was like exponential because I found this thing that was hard. And that I could progress at at my own pace. I didn't have to be compared to someone else. It was kind of like a challenge against myself from week to week or from month to month. And then it's happened year after year where I went to one trail, one year, I struggled through it, I come back the next year, and it was markedly easier for me. And those are so fulfilling, those moments, and it's that confidence, and it's giving me it's filling my bucket. And I believe that's what you're talking about, right? Yeah, I'd say it's all about looking at what we do and the hobby is that we love, specifically dirt bike riding right now, and drawing out how this is helping us in our daily lives, right? Exactly how you're saying it with guitar and all these other things you're doing on a daily basis and comparing it to guitar. But one thing I just want to add is that, and look, I'm going to just speak for my self-ownness, but there are times out there on the trail, I am scared. I'm afraid. Like I am fearful, whether it's a cliff or just something that I'm just afraid, I just don't want to get hurt, or at you name it, there's something that frightens me. Yeah. Okay? I have to face that fear, and I have to overcome it, and I have to overcome that fear by doing specific things that I've learned in the past. By telling myself, okay, if I handle the clutch this way, if I make sure I've been working on my balance, if I if I rev it this way, if I work the throttle the way I learn, I'm going to get over this obstacle, I'm going to be safe, I need to find my break this way. So it's analytical in a way, but you're overcoming a fear by problem-solving, right? And what that does is when you get through it, it obviously builds up confidence. But guess what, man, day to day, I don't care if you have a fear of public speaking. The next time you get up in front of a crowd, if you're if you're working at a company, you're going to take what you learned, and a lot of this is subconsciously, you don't even have to think about it. It's not like, hey, I went dirt bike riding yesterday and overcame my fear, so I'm going to public speak today. It's not like that. It's just this internal subconscious strength that you develop that you say, I know how to control my fear. I have confidence in myself. I'm going to overcome that obstacle. So that log where that cliff face where that steep downhill or the mud bog that you're afraid to get stuck in, whatever it is, that's a metaphor for so many things in life, man. And it carries, it just carries through. So I don't care what your fear is. I think that practicing on your bike, you're growing as a person. You're just growing as a human. And I think that that instills so much confidence in us day to day. Even if it's men take whatever fear you want to fill in the blank, I guarantee that if you use those problem solving skills and that self-confidence and belief in yourself, you're going to get through it. Yeah, I mean, another metaphor that we, you know, I wrote down yesterday is just, you know, Dom, we don't know what's coming next in our lives. I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. No, no one saw COVID-19 coming or nobody, you know, these different things that happen in our lives. We don't know what's coming next. And that is the same thing that happens when we're out in the middle of nowhere on our dirt bikes or, you know, things come up in the trail and you have to have the confidence in yourself to be able to overcome that. And once you've developed this, you know, this practice of seeing a challenge in front of you and pushing through it and figuring out how to get over it. That is building your confidence and it's building you as a person. And that, I think that's what you're saying is that kind of infects other areas of your life. In fact, it's probably not the right word. It's just the one that came up. But it affects, effects are in fact the other aspects of your life and you're able to draw on those life experiences through your hobby that you game through your hobby to then propel you through some of these really challenging things in in our lives, right? Exactly. Exactly. And again, unique to dirt bike riding. I mean, again, this is not a groomed ski trail. This is not a planned out and mapped motocross track. This is something that you're going to send off on in the woods and you don't know what's 100 yards ahead around that corner. In most cases, even if you do know that trail, it may have changed. So you have to learn to adapt and roll with it and overcome whatever comes your way. So absolutely, you're right on the money. Yeah. Let's maybe maybe let's talk a little bit about the cognitive psychology part of this about relying on relying on a machine and problem solving. You touched on it, just briefly there when you talked about problem solving. Can we talk about that aspect of why this sport is unique and how that can kind of help you? Oh, yeah, man. Let's think about it. Let's do some comparison. And again, my disclaimer is I am a sportsman. I love a lot of things. And I'm an avid surfer and skier and some work like I said. But you know what Kyle, if I break my surford, you know, I'm going to send it to the surfboard shop and they're going to fix it. If my street bike, you know, starts acting up, it's going to the dealer. If I bust my snowboard, it's going to the dealer, right? I'm going to get a new set of binding. The thing about dirt bike riding is that it's you and this machine 20, 30, 40, 50 miles in the woods that you really need to know, intimately, right? First of all, and you know this as well as I do, and I learned this the hard way, is that you know, we take these machines through some really, really challenging stuff. The things break, right? I like I said, if I make it back from a ride and I don't have to fix something man, wow, that's like I didn't push hard enough or I'm just really lucky. So, so things break on these machines and it would be cost prohibitive to send to the shop every time you broke something. Number one, number two, you don't want to do that because you need to know your machine. You need to know how it works and that's mechanical engineering man. That is an amazing skill to learn and understand. So, I wasn't really a handy guy before I got into dirt bike riding. Yeah, six things here and there and I knew basic mechanics. But over the several years that I've been dirt bike riding man, I have learned how to fix a two stroke engine inside and out. I've learned the nuances of a four stroke engine. I'm doing all my own repairs. So, what does that do? I mean, that will take us back to the whole cognitive discussion. But from a cognitive psychology standpoint, we're learning problem solving. We're learning problem solving and get this. Cognitive psychology, let's go to that crazy definition stuff, right? Cognitive psychology is identifying that there's a problem. Then, once you know there's a problem defining the problem. Now you have to come up with a strategy to attack that problem. So, there's organization. Now you have to get your resources. You have to actually solve the problem and then you evaluate your results. And I know that's a lot of, you know, psycho babble jargon. But basically, but basically, Kyle, what you're doing is taking your brain through these steps of problem solving every time you have to deal with an issue with your bike, right? And you're doing this for lots of reasons. You're doing this because you need your bike to perform well. You're doing this because it costs prohibitive descendants of the dealer. And you're doing it because you need to trust that machine when you're out there. So you have this like symbiotic relationship with your machine. So my point is, you're learning an amazing skill. You're learning patience and problem solving. Okay? When you do this, again, just like the other things we discussed, this is subconsciously. Like I said, we're making it conscious because we're talking about we're saying, Hey guys, get this by doing this, you're going to be better at that. Most people don't even think that way. But subconsciously deep down in the recesses of your mind, you can apply, or you probably will apply all of those problem solving skills to your daily life with discovering that there's a problem identifying the issue, defining it in your mind, strategizing and organizing, getting resources, solving the problem and evaluating the results. Think about how you can apply that to just about any problem in your life. And if you can do that when you come home from a ride, then you're like, Oh man, you know, my top end is shot or you know, I blew this or my radiator shot, whatever it is, right? You have to go through those steps and you're training your brain to think logically that way. And you can apply that to just about anything. You can apply that to relationships. You can apply that to your job. You can apply that to your kids. You can apply that to fixing anything, right? So basically, it's practice for your mind to get into that logical problem solving skill set because the truth is Kyle, you can't wing it, right? Like when you fix your dirt bite, you're not just winging it. You're not just like, well, let me just put a piece of rubber on this and that'll get you through maybe like, get you home. But you really have to face what's going on and fix it, right? So you're just learning these amazing problem solving skills. And that's in that cognitive psychology, man, that's making you smarter. And it's making you better to handle so many other things. And it wouldn't that also be kind of tying back to the mindfulness part of it too because when you're doing these when you're problem solving, you have to be right there in the moment and be present in order to even start that, right? Listen, I can attest to this. And I mean, there's probably good and bad to what I'm about to say. But I think we can all say to ourselves that we get pleasure and in a sense of comfort and calm when we're working on our bikes, right? So after a hard day, after a hard day at work, you know, I've been at the hospital all day, maybe I had an argument with my wife, maybe the kids are making me nuts, whatever, whatever it may be, when I go into the garage, I get my tools out and I start taking my bike apart. I'm present, just like you said. And I'm focusing on something. So all those other things are kind of, you know, it's making me feel better. It's a little bit of an escape for me. So absolutely that mindfulness part and a little bit of an escape for you. A healthy escape. Healthy. Yeah, healthy. You know, because you're right. I mean, look, I mean, we can talk about so much stuff in psychology, I do people that do bad things to cope, right? Like they'll do substance in your drugs, you drink alcohol or, you know, and those are coping skills too, but they're negative coping skills. Yes. If I can get out, if I can get out in the garage and work on my bike for 30 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour, a little bit of quiet time and work on my bike, and that helps me cope with the stresses of my day. And that's, you know, are you kidding me? That's a wonderful, amazing coping skill, right? So yeah, you hit it out, you hit the nail on the head for the mindfulness there, but also the fact that you are problem solving. And then when you finally fix something and you did it, and it works, I mean, come on, it makes you feel great, right? Like you accomplish something. So, so again, you know, not just problem solving, but also the pride that you feel when you fix it. And the trust and confidence that you have the next time you're on the trail and something goes wrong with your bike, you're like, okay, no problem. I know what that sound is. I know what that week is. I know how to fix this. I have the tools for it, right? So again, so you have the confidence, the analytical stuff, the cognitive side, and a little bit of an escape and a little bit of mindfulness. Yeah, because I mean, what are what other sports do you have where you are relying on this machine to get you back? And it's a simple machine. I mean, obviously they're getting more complex if you know, but if you really break it down, this machine is very simple. There's not a million parts to this thing. The systems are simple. And as we learn that, as we become more intimate with that machine, we develop this cognitive psychology, we develop this confidence that allows us to then take the machine out. I'm much more confident with my machines now than I've ever been, because I've got that history behind me. And, and, you know, that, you know, line upon line of building up my relationship with these bikes and with myself and with my ability to solve problems. And that that all ties into this confidence thing and makes me, you know, more, I'll give you, I'll give you an example. Like, I had my kids out two days ago. We were out on a ride. And we had a flat. We just, we just installed new tires and new tubes on both of my little sons' bikes. And we got a flat on one. And I, it wasn't a big deal to me. I'm like, look, we're six, seven miles away from our campsite. But we're going to be fine. I can't fix it right here because I, I didn't have the, I didn't have a way to patch this tube out there in the trail. I have all stuff for my bikes, but I didn't have the stuff to fix his bike. But I just, like this, my kids looked at me and they said, that is this a problem? Or we're going to have to leave the bike. And with other, with the utmost confidence, I'm like, no, I'll put some air in it and we'll ride it back. And we'll, we'll, we'll get back. And they're like, well, won't that ruin something? And I said, as long as we're careful, the worst thing that we'll do will definitely ruin the tube. And we could possibly ruin the tire. But if we're careful, we won't ruin the rim. And they're good looking at me going, Dad, how do you know that? And it's because of all these things that we've been talking about before. It's like, I've been in this situation before. And the world, the sky is not falling. And so I'm not freaking out to them. And I'm not, you know, blaming them. And we're, we're just kind of out there still bonding and having this little, you know, experience and trying to make the best of it. And okay, we'll go back to camp and then I'll switch over on this, this other bike. And, and, you know, it helps. Another thing that you talked about before we move off of this problem-solving thing that really resonated with me yesterday was think about this in other aspects of your life, even around the house. So now you've trained your brain to problem solve. Okay, let's say that you have a plumbing, a plumbing issue like the drain on your sink, kitchen sink stops, you know, draining or there's a leak or your water heater has a problem. You've now kind of rewired your brain. And you've developed this confidence in yourself that you can diagnose a problem and fix it. So you may not be a plumber. And even right now in this COVID-19 world that we live in, this is even more important than ever because you probably don't want to call a plumber. It wouldn't be cool if you had the ability cognitively and the confidence to go fix that drain yourself and you probably can. I completely agree and I want to add to I want to add to something. You know my favorite part about your story was Kyle, was that you experienced that with your kids. And, and, and again, don't forget, my mother board certification is child psychiatry. So I feel a lot with kids who experience a lot of anxiety and depression as well. And I, I, I, not that this is playing for everything, but a lot of kids these days aren't resilience. They're not as resilient. We probably hear that word a lot today for me, but they're not as resilient as they used to be, right? So kids, when they run into issues with their friends or at school or whatever, they just can't bounce back. They don't know how to problem solve, right? Now get this. You're out with your child, your kids, right? They, they get a flat. I guarantee that they were scared. I guarantee that they had this fear like, uh-oh, I got a flat. What now? Right? So they, I'm going to tell you something very important about child psychiatry. Is the children model their parents behavior? That is a gold standard. That is a gold standard in child sight. So they look to you and they said, all right, what's dad going to do about this? Is he going to freak out? Is he going to throw his wrenches? Is he going to be like, oh, what's dad going to do? Like dad's calm. He analyzed the situation. He was confident. He said there's a way to get through this without breaking anything else. We can get back. There's nothing to be afraid of. We have this with confidence. And this is how it's going to go down. We don't have the proper, you know, tire-paching kid at the moment. But next time, guess what? Maybe we'll bring a kid. But they saw, they modeled, they saw that behavior in you, that problem solving confidence. And what your children learned is priceless. So they're going to use that. And again, subconsciously, man, in their day-to-day life, problem solving, they learn something from you. And that, to me, your story with your kids, or when I go out on the trails of my kids, those life lessons, they carry over to them. And what's more important to that, honestly? No much. No much. You know, it's, and I love the transition into thinking about, you know, building our families with this, even right after that happened. There was another thing. And I just felt really good because I knew, I know that these lessons are being, are being had by the kids and they're taking it too hard because we're, we're riding back. I've got one kid that's going a little slower because I've told him. I'm telling him in the headset. I'm like, let's just go a little slower because the last thing I want to do is, is damage this rim. So just go a little slower. Then I've got the other son in front and he's still everything on his bike is still good. And he goes ripping up this hill and ripping down the other side of it. It was steep hill. And it was really rocky. And down at the bottom of it, he gets out of control. I can't quite see him because I'm still with my other son back behind just a little bit, but I hear it on the headset. I hear something happens. And he just eats it hard. Down at the bottom of this hill. And I get down there and he's laying on the ground motionless and he's crying. And I'm trying to turn the volume in my headset down because he's just like filling my helmet now with this, you know, pain. And I look at him, I lay my bike down. I say, Hey, buddy, just sit there for a second. I kind of get the bike off of him. And I'm like, just, you know, just breathe and everything. And he stands up at that point. And five years ago or four years ago, that would have ended his day. I mean, he wasn't really hurt, but mentally he was hurt, right? And he's bumped off on his side. He knows he's a little sore here. And he's crying. And I say, let's get your helmet off. Let's calm down. Let's take a little bit of a break. And we only take like a three minute break. By that time, he is ready to go again. He's he's not even he tears are still coming down his face. And he's pulling his helmet on. And I almost get emotional as I think about this, but this little stud nine year old is pulling his helmet on. He's kind of scraped on his side. It took a pretty hard digger. And he's like, okay, I'm ready to go. And I'm sitting there going a few years ago, it would have taken, I might have had to carry him back on my bike. And now he's developed this resilience where he's like, K, I'm ready to go. He's kick starting his bike. And he hauled ass after that. And he's just and I'm like, we couldn't even keep up with him because we've got the flat tire. And he is going, he's just he's decided, I'm not going to let this beat me. And we talked about maybe here's what you did, buddy. Maybe you should have just let it roll a little bit. You got a little squirrely over here in the neck. The next time this happens, just a suggestion I have as your dad is let off the break. I think what happened is you got a little bit offline, you panicked, you then gave too much break and then you washed out your front wheel. And now you're on the dirt. And now we're wiping you off. So I think next time that happens, let that sucker go and try to roll through this without being on the brakes. And you might find that you'll make it. And he's like, he's looking at me. He's listening. And he takes off. And I was it was such a proud moment for me because I'm like, this is the resilience. So why? So why is it the kids? Because you said something. You said kids today are not as resilient as they used to be. Can you give us any insight into why you think that might be the case? Yeah. You know Kyle, there's so many theories about that. And it's hard because we live in a very different culture. Look, I knew when I grew up, look, I'm in my mid 40s, right? I grew up, I came home from school with my back back down. I went out into the woods, I built three forts with my buddies. We had bullies. We got into fights. I got my butt kicked. You know, I mean things happened, right? As we grew up. But now, you know, the culture of raising children is so different, at least in my area of the United States. I mean parents are what we call cruise director parents, right? It's like my kids come home and they're like, what are we doing today, mom and dad? And then you have an agenda. And the parents are in control of everything. And they don't allow their kids to grow independently. And they unfortunately don't put the children through those self-imposed challenges to overcome and build resilience. So we're, you know, I mean this certainly can be a pretty controversial topic. But for the most part, I think that's leading to a decreased resilience, decreased self-confidence, which is why kids are so upset, like, you know, when little things happen, right? Because they don't know how to overcome these things independently on their own. They don't develop that foundation of who they are and what they can accomplish on their own. So, you know, doing things like dirt bike riding, being one of them, but there are a lot of things we can do with our kids to teach them those life lessons. But those are some theories as to why things have changed culturally. I think, you know, we're not allowing our kids the freedoms to learn, to fall and get up and dust themselves off and be like, I got this. We're catching them way too much. Right? So we're putting too much padding around our kids. And again, controversial topic, right? I'm a child psychiatrist. I want the best for kids. And but but I do see that. I think parents need to lay off. I've seen some real crazy stuff. We can get off on some crazy topics where, you know, that your parents are doing their homework for their kids, they register for their college courses for their kids. You know, you have no idea what I see. And my practice practice, and I tell parents, I'm like, listen, they need to learn, kids need to learn. Give them some freedom, put them through some challenges, let them cry it out. It's okay to fail. Let your kids fail, which in essence, I mean, of course, we don't want our kids to get hurt, but let them have a little get off on the bike. It's okay. It's okay. Right? Let them take a little tumble, of course safety, right? First, but dust yourself off, get back up and keep riding. Man, you got this. You know, you get a flat. That's okay. How are we going to fix it? You know, you bust a chain. Okay. No problem. Right? So it's all learning, right? And I think, you know, I think the more that we can do with our kids in that respect, the better off they're going to be as adults. Look, I know it's made me a better adult. It's certainly going to make my kids better. Yeah. Yeah. I think about my, my role as a father and I'm literally just fumbling my way through this and my wife is a better parent than I than I am. But we offer different skills and different things to the kids, but I feel like so much of my goal, I don't feel like, especially with my boys, I have two boys and two girls. The girls are the oldest and the youngest and then the boys are in the middle. And I don't feel like I'm raising boys. What I feel like I'm doing is grooming men. That's what I, that's how I look at it. And so I'm not, you know, they get a little bit more encouraged or encouragement and nurturing from their mom. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to walk the line of being that nurturing presence, but also be, you know, the one who is reminding them that it's okay to fail and we're going to do hard things. Because my whole life is just one, if I boil it down, it's one set of do this hard thing and then find another hard thing and do that hard thing. And that's one of the reasons I like dirt bikes is because it's hard. I do it not because it's easy. I do it because it's hard. And I'm trying to let that kind of distill down into my children. And when I see the progression that we make over the years, and I tell you, and you know, it's a lot of work. Like doing dirt bikes with your kids is a lot of work because it's hard for us, right? It's hard for us as adults. And then with their little bodies and they have, you know, the tires are smaller and everything's smaller and things are hard. But it's, there, these life lessons, I feel like in the end, these are probably going to be the best life lessons that I have that I will pass on to them. And like you said, there's other ways that they could be taught this, you know, they could be taught it maybe through football or or maybe through basketball. And we do those things too. Like my kids are in my kids are in other sports. But there's something unique about the dirt bikes that puts them in situations that are unique and for me a blessing, I feel. I agree. And listen, just by look, I want to give you a little bit, I want to give you a little bit of kudos, man, just just from what you're telling me the supportive care, the, you know, being there for your kids, but also teaching them challenging things. That's the recipe. That you got it. You got it. You're doing a good job. Well, thank you. We're trying, we're trying very hard. So we feel and we're constantly tested every, every day with my 14 year old daughter, my wife and I are looking at each other and I'm going, Hey, look, this one's on you. You've been a 14 year old girl. I haven't, you know, but I'll take, I'll take some of that maybe the lead foot on some of these things with the boys. But man, we're so far out of my area of expertise with my 14 year old daughter and it's just getting started now. And I love her to death and she's amazing, but it's challenging, right? As a parent and and I even, I try to get her into dirt bikes. She, she does a little bit here and there, but you know, it's, it's a little bit different when you're working with kids. And that's, that's one thing I would say, I guess that you, you might be able to riff on for a second is every kid is a little bit different. You know, one kid, you can, one kid, you can push really hard and say go hit that rock and you can, you can motivate him that way. Another kid, you need to, you know, psychologically, you may need to take a different approach in order to, in order to give them the support and the, you know, the, the encouragement that they need. I mean, that's a thing, right? Of course, of course, every child has a different personality style. I mean, every child has a different framework of who they are and a lot of that is potentially genetic or, you know, this whole nature versus nurture argument, but it's a little bit of both. It's, it's a little bit of genetics. It's a little bit of personality trait. It's a little bit of some, but their life experience thus far in the world that lead to these different personalities. And if they're not robots, right? It's not a computer program. Every child's going to be a little different. And you have to sort of roll with it. There's new ones in how you approach each child. And you got to do it in a way, obviously, that's not traumatizing the kid. Right? Someone's super afraid of something. You take the time with it, right? And listen, maybe the dirt bike's not right for them. Maybe the basketball core is a better lesson for them. And that's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with that at all, right? But you have, of course, man, everyone has a different personality. And you kind of, you have to, you have to roll with those new launches to help your kids be the best people that they can be. This is my thing with kids. And I tell parents just all the time, we're bumper bowling. We're doing what our kids is bumper bowling. We're sending them down that lane. We're letting them bounce. We're not letting them get in the gutter. But we're teaching them how to get down that lane, right? And we're just giving a little nudges here and there for being the best parents we can be, right? But each, each individual is just that. They're individuals, right? So we just got to roll with what the child's personality is like. And what their skill set is like, that's all? Yeah. And the same thing would go with other friends that you have, you know, if you're, if you're helping a new friend out in dirt bikes or, you know, a friend who's new to dirt bikes is probably the better way to put it, you're helping them out. You need to take a different approach with, with, with each person. And maybe that's a perfect segue into kind of talking about how this, you know, sport of dirt biking and our mental health, how that's affected by the groups of people, the relationships that we have with maybe other dirt bike riders. Can we talk about that for a little bit? Yeah. Kyle, just let's think about this for a second. And, and again, I mean, I keep saying this because I want to drive this point home. There are a lot of things that are amazing to do with your family and friends. And, you know, like I said, playing around a golf with your buddies is awesome. A pickup game of basketball is awesome. Going through a hike is awesome, right? These are all peer involved activities that are great. You know, they're great for social, they're great for, you know, building a lot of interpersonal connection. But what I've experienced, and I'm sure that, you know, our listeners and your listeners and, and, and you can relate to this, there's something a little bit different about hitting the trails with your buddies. And the way that I look at it is this. It's, I mean, the best way I could say it is, look, if, you know, you're out in those trails, man. It's, it's usually pretty dangerous. It's usually pretty precarious. And you're going out with guys that you have to trust, and you have to be there for each other. And that's a whole different ball game than being on a basketball court with somebody or playing around a golf with somebody, right? So, you know, you might have to help out your friend get through some pretty significant, dangerous things, obstacles, you're getting hurt, whatever it may be, it's breaking your bike. And the other, and it goes by its person, right? Your friend, who you choose to go out with, might really need to help you out to get you through these pretty scary, dangerous situations. So, you're building this, and look, and, and no disrespect at all to veterans by even saying this, because I've never been in the military, and I've never been in a war, and that's a hold it, the whole different issue, but I'm saying this just sort of like lightly, that it's almost like, you go into battle with these guys. And, you know, you kind of, you're experiencing a very significant challenge with the people that you go out with, and you develop this really significant bond. You know, I've had some buddies kind of, when I was learning how to ride, and I was getting, you know, pretty beat up, and I broke my bike a few times, and blew out radiators, and thankfully, I had guys out there with me, that number one didn't make a fuss about helping me out. It was, it was almost, it was like this camaraderie that it's like, all right, Tom, look, you blew a radiator, man, your bike's going to overheat. We got to get you out of the woods. This is what we're going to do. You know, you're going to hike up the trail a little bit. There's a stream. Let's fill your camel back with water, bring it on back. I'm going to lift your bike out of this ditch. Maybe we need a tow strap, whatever, right? Whatever the case is, but they get you through it, and you get home after, after it all, and you're like, wow, I mean, they really saved me in a way. Got me out of something really, really dangerous, and there's this gratitude. There's this incredible gratitude, and also selflessness that goes along with dirt bike riding, because this happens a lot when we're out, right? I mean, like I said, a good day means you go out, you don't get hurt, you don't break your bike, no one else breaks their bike, and that's a good day. But listen, man, I don't even know what the stats are, but a lot of the times, it doesn't really go that way. You know, somebody breaks a bike, or gets an injury, or you know, something happens where you need people that you really can rely on. And from a psychological perspective, and building relationships as humans, as interpersonal interaction, and social interaction goes, the two words here from a psychological perspective are gratitude and selflessness. And I see that so much in the dirt bike community. This just sense of selflessness, like how many times have you been out, and you're out with five guys, and somebody, you know, it has a get off, or the bike, or whatever reason, or bike is just broken, you're 10 miles away from the trailhead, and now we got to do a tow out. And it's no problem. It's okay. It's yeah, kind of sucks, but it's okay. Let's get you to safety, let's get your bike fixed, and it's all good. There's just like selflessness about it, you know what I mean? And then there's the gratitude part where you're just so thankful, right? You're just so thankful. And that kind of bonding for me, and again, I have nothing against golf. I enjoy it around a golf time of time, but in comparison to other sports, I feel like the bonding, the interpersonal bonding, because it's at that intensity level is so much more. Yeah, because you have to, you're out there relying on these people. I can think of countless, well, not countless, but I can think of many, many times when I've been out there at the mercy of the environment. And then something goes wrong, and now you've got to rely on these other people with you, these brothers with you, or sisters, if you're doing this, you know, and you're a woman, and you've got a woman's group, or whatever it is, but you're out there, and it really matters who you picked right with. You've got to trust these people. And obviously you have to start somewhere. If you don't have a group, you've got to start building those relationships. But that's what you're talking about is building the relationships, fostering those with family, with friends, with other people, and trusting in people. And what you're telling, what you're telling us is that just the trusting people and developing these relationships, that is fostering gratitude and it's fostering selflessness, and that is blessing us with our mental health, right? Oh my God, it's creating humility. And you want to hear something crazy. I mean, a lot of people don't even believe this, but I've seen PET scans where we look at blood flow in the brain, and the usage, or what parts of our brains are activated with certain emotions. And that old saying, it's better to give and receive is actually true. And it turns out that when we look at the MRI scans, active MRI scans, they're called PET scans, of people's brain when they're feeling a sense of giving, they actually, the reward system of the brain lights up much more than when you're receiving, right? So when you're out there on the trail and you got to get out your toe rope and you help somebody out, and you're giving your time and effort, I mean, that is just the sense of selflessness that makes us feel good. It allows us to feel good. And just looking part of that community, there's that given cake, right? So when you're sitting around later and you know, having dinner, having a beer at the bar, whatever with your buddies, you guys have bonded in a significant way. It's, you know, you've gone through something challenging together and you've been selfless and you have that gratitude. And psychologically, that has some really, really heavy weight. And man, like I said, I mean, I do a lot of sports. I can't think of many sports that, you know, you go out for a day and you really have to put a lot of faith, or you might have to really, you know, rise to the occasion to help somebody out significantly just by going out on a day ride, right? Yeah. I mean, and I love how you brought up the military aspect to this. And again, I'll echo what you just, what you said is, you know, we're not comparing this to battle or anything. But if you look at though, if you look at that group is kind of like your, you know, your test subject, you see these people who've been in the military, who have been in battle together. And these are brothers that, I mean, there is close to them mentally as they are to anyone else in the, on the entire planet. And it's because they've been through these really harrowing experiences. And they can relate to each other. And they know, they know they look at that that guy behind him has their back. And they know that guy would lay down their life for them. And, and those relationships never go away for their entire lives. Well, on a, on a lesser sense, because we want to be totally sensitive to that, on a lesser sense, we're, we're tapping into that a little bit by going into some of these environments on our door bikes and having some of these adventures. And it could happen too. If you, if you hiked with somebody, you know, from the top of the bottom of the grand canyon, you would develop a relationship with that person that would stand the test of time as well. And, and, and that is helping us to give us more happiness. And even, even serving others, like you mentioned, like you're, if you're helping someone to toe them out or to help them fix their flat or they broke a radiator and you're trying to like use JB Weld and bond up the radiator and then find a ditch somewhere and fill the radiator full of coolant or use it from your camelback or whatever it is from your water bladder. Those, those types of serving, it makes us feel good. I, I know that here, even just like from a spiritual perspective, I've been taught my whole life if you're feeling down about yourself, go out, get outside of yourself and serve someone else and you'll feel better. And what you're saying is that's just that's a, that's a, that's a basically a psychological fact. Is that what I'm hearing from you? Is that if you can get outside of yourself, serve other people. It has almost like a dopamine hit where it, it makes some of your problems go away, makes you feel better about yourself. Is that what you've noticed with you, with your study? Yes. And that's exactly right. Like, and, and so, and we've known this for such a long time. And science is proving it now. Okay, fine. We have like numbers and statistics and colorful charts and graphs that show us this stuff. But man, this stuff goes back to the dawn of time, right? Where, where it feels good to be selfless and give and help others, right? And, and man, look, I, I don't care if you're out on the trail and you got somebody that's new and you're just the guy that's kind of waiting up for them and kind of taking them through the ropes or you're the guy that's, you know, when you see somebody have a hard get off and you put your bike down and you go run over and you make sure he's okay and you kind of go through a little triage with him. I don't care what level it is. You're helping people, man, and, and, and you're developing this really cool relationship because we've talked about it, you know, riding dirt bikes can be precarious, it can be scary, it can be dangerous. It's uncharted territory in a lot of situations. It's far from home in a lot of circumstances and a lot of bad things can happen, you know, so you're developing really, really cool relationships. And part of that is by being selfless, by helping them, right, by being there for them, by being the person that they can trust and rely on and then that relationship goes back and forth. But look, I mean, we've had this really awesome conversation, right? But I think everything that we've even, every heading that we talk about, we can tie into all the other headings we talked about, right? Like, you're out in nature, so you feel that, you know, life is bigger and better than you. So that's kind of selflessness too. We talked about confidence, right? That all ties into helping other people and trusting other people, right? We talked about the cognitive problem solving ability. Well, you kind of need that when you're helping somebody out or somewhere else is helping you out, right? So all of these things reinforce each other. Man, it's so cool to look at it this way, right? Yeah, no, I love that so much. And it's, it is really interesting to me to see how it all ties back together. I just wigged out with my wife, you know, yesterday when we got off the phone and, and so she's excited to hear some of this stuff too. So maybe, maybe kind of as we, as we wrap up here, let's talk a little bit about the proprioception thing because this is, this is a concept that I wasn't really aware of. I actually did a little Googling of it yesterday when we were talking about it. And I'm curious to hear how, you know, what your tie-in is to this, so why you think this is important from a, you know, a mental health perspective and then how Dorpikes help us, you know, develop this. Yeah, so, so look, physical activity number one is incredibly important. Let's, let's just get that out of the way. And I tell my patients this because I've read studies over and over and over again. So let's say somebody's depressed and anxious. I've read study style and I'm a doctor. I prescribed medicine, right? I will prescribe you medicine. But physical activity, 30 minutes of cardiovascular activity every day in a lot of cases is just as good as an antidepressant pill in a lot of cases, right? So let's get that out of the way. So the physical stuff we're getting into now, riding your Dorpikes, man, kicks your, you know, I mean, it's no joke. When you get on some gnarly trails, man, I'm huffing like I just get 50 squats at the gym, you know, I'm I'm usually hurt and sometimes so the physical activity part of it from that perspective, from the muscular strength, from the cardiovascular activity is good for us psychologically and physically. They go hand in hand. But you mentioned a word called proprioception. proprioception is a really interesting phenomenon. Now, from a neurological perspective, what we look at, first of all, proprioception. What is it? proprioception is your brain's way of understanding where it is in its surrounding space, right? So if you close your eyes and you balance on one leg, your brain is paying attention. Okay, you know, my left foot is raised, I'm balancing, I need to fire this muscle and fire that muscle so I don't fall over. So a lot of neurological adaptation is happening when you're trying to balance. And that's proprioceptive exercise. So we've looked at studies and this always fascinated me. Now, we've looked at studies at mice, for example, right? And we always kind of need studies on poor minds, right? So you take a mouse and you put them in a, a, that has a lot of balance beams and challenging obstacles compared to a mouse that has a very boring cage that's all flat and they don't really need to do any balance type exercises. Now, you know, when that mouse dies and you take a look at the brain, the brain of the mouse that had to do all of the balancing activities was much well formed in a lot of the places that we didn't think it would be more well formed. And that's the front a little bit of brain, our problem solving brain, right? So our cognitive brain, the brain that we think with, not so much the physical part of the brain that helps us balance. Of course, that was also better with the cognitive part of the brain. So let's talk about dirt bike riding. Man, you are on a single, single track, hardly trail and you are standing up on your pegs. Man, I can't think of anything where it teaches you balance and control of your body and space. I mean, if you're like a gymnast in some cases, man, I mean, you are balancing. You're going through some crazy stuff. You have to learn how to break and your body under acceleration and deceleration and just balance in general, right? So what you're doing is something so unique when it comes to balance exercises that it is so good for you cognitively, right? Now, get this. When you look at, or when I looked at studies about proprioceptive exercise, it improves cognitive function overall, including improved memory. Imagine that, right? This stuff you don't really think about. So, balanced exercises improve cognitive performance in our brain, right? And there are some studies that even show that it may slow down things like dementia and things like that, like Alzheimer's disease and all that. There are studies that proprioceptive exercises, balanced exercises, help people that are developing dementia, right? To slow it down. So let's just take the average person that worked out. Okay, cool. So on the average guy, and I go to the gym, I jump on the treadmill for 30 minutes at the gym, I'm running on a treadmill, no big deal. Then I go over and hit the weight that used to bench grass and poles, maybe some squats, cool. Did I really do anything that was challenging my balance? No. I really didn't. So it's very easy to not, even though you're doing physical activity, to not do something that challenges your balance, that challenges your body's ability to constantly pay attention to what's happening in the space around you, right? So dirt bike riding specifically is cardiovascular, it's strength, and it's an enormous amount of proprioceptive exercise, which is that balanced training. It's just where you are in space. And God, I mean, you and I could probably think of a million cases where you need some really, really good balance type work to get through some of these trails, right? So I think that was a really important thing to touch on, it's why dirt bike riding specifically really attacks all of these awesome physical attributes as far as getting in shape, but also how it applies constantly and psychologically to us just by doing the actual exercises of riding. Something that was really interesting there that you mentioned right at the beginning is, as a medical doctor, you're able to prescribe medications to people. But I'm sure as a careful person and an analytical being, how do you decide if you're talking with a client? Where's that line where you say, "You know what, I think this person just needs to get some more physical exercise," or this person might actually need some sort of an antidepressant. How do you, I know that doesn't have anything to do with dirt bikes, but just curious to me, you know, where is that line? If you look at somebody, you get to know them, you're like, "You know what, I think actually what you really need is some of these things we've been talking about. You don't actually have to prescribe a dirt bike to them, but you want to get them out and get them more active and get them doing some of these things." And it's like, "This maybe you need is some exercise." You look at clients, can you identify those people easily or is it hard? What is what how does that work? Yeah, it's really complex or algorithm, but let's put it this way. I'm going to say something super basic. There will never ever be a time unless someone is totally incapable of it physically, but there will never ever be a time that I will tell someone that's depressed or anxious or having a mood disorder to not get out and get moving. I will always, always, always say, "What's your activity like? Are you getting out? What kind of exercise do you do? Are you getting some cardiovascular exercise?" So you're going there first, you're going there first before you would ever even consider like a chemical fix, right? Always, always. It's always part of the equation. It's never not a part of the equation. The medications come in second barely. Now listen, Kyle, there are times in ending a medical psychiatrist. I deal with some pretty significant stuff. I mean, people are suicidal, for example, where people that won't even get out of bed or won't even eat or feed themselves because they're so depressed, like really significant stuff. Now in those cases, it's like, "Look, we got to get you out of medicine that could probably help you out," but there will never be a time that will not add physical activity to their regimen. And it's a discussion with the patient as well. It's like, you know, someone comes in and says, "Look at the past six months. I have just been down in the dumps and this is, you know, what's going on my life." We look at three things in psychiatry. We look at biology, psychology and sociology. So I'm going to look at your biology. What are you doing physically? How's your physical health? How's your sleep? How's your nutrition? How's your diet? Right? How's your hydration? That's physical. Then we look at psychology. All right. How are you coping? What are you doing psychologically? To cope with your stressors. Are you locking yourself in a room? Are you drinking a bottle of vodka? Are you getting out and doing exercise? What is it that you do to cope and deal? And then we analyze that. And then socially, we look at that third part. That third part of the pyramid is socially. What are you doing socially? Are you getting out with friends? Do you have good social support? What's your marriage like? What's your relationship like with your kids, your friends, whatever. So we take all of those things. I think any good psychiatry should do that. And kind of look to see where the deficiencies are and just help somebody kind of figure out what the best plan is moving forward. So in some cases, it's all very unique. Everybody's very different. That little triad that I just said, he's going to be different with everybody. But I will always, always, if possible, recommend some physical activity. Absolutely undoubtedly. Now, dirt bike riding, I don't know if I'd recommend to a lot of it. I mean, it's a dangerous sport, man. And as a doc, I do get myself in trouble by saying, hey, man, go buy a 300, two stroke, go buy a 300, two stroke, hit the trails. I don't know if I can just probably get myself in the trail. Just send them my way. Just be like, we're like, you know, that way you have plausible deniability, just like send them a YouTube link and I'll talk to them. So maybe we can partner up that way. Like if you got some extreme cases where you need some extra help, you know, let me know. You got it. And that, you know, that actually brings up something and I'll just touch upon it briefly. I did something with post-traumatic stress disorder and surfing where I taught veterans how to surf and use a lot of what we're talking about today and sort of media analogies to surfing. And sometimes I do think about putting together like some kind of dirt bike riding clinic for people who are going through some mental tough times, you know, some emotional tough times with depression or post-traumatic stress or veterans and taking them through like a really basic dirt bike course and taking all of the things we talked about today and sort of like debriefing with it and really talking about how to sexualize in a good way and helping people psychiatrically and psychologically that way. So, you know, that's always something to think about as well, man. That'd be really cool to team up with potentially and do something down the line. That would be, in fact, I know of a group. I can't think of who they are because I get so many emails coming in, but there is a gentleman that reached out to me just recently where they're doing something like this, you know, he's a vet and he's like dirt bikes have really helped me with PTSD, you know, and what I'm finding in my life is even in my marriage and my relationships, I'm finding like post-traumatic stress disorder is not always, we think of it as just like, oh, this is something that happens if you're in the military. But am I right to say that PTSD can happen in so many other aspects of your life and now and now we're starting to like diagnose that more. Is that a thing? Yeah, what's Kyle? Kyle, it could be any perceived trauma and that's subjective, you know, it happens a lot in the military because obviously those guys are exposed to some really traumatic horrific things in a very short time period while they're deployed or whatever's going on. So, we see it a lot in that population. But Kyle, you can have PTSD from a bad car accident. You can have PTSD from a bad injury. You can have PTSD from a bad divorce or a bad relationship or physical or emotional abuse. You can have post-traumatic stress from a lot of things. Basically post-traumatic stress is your body in mind is being reset. Like you're resetting your thermostat to be a little bit more hyper-vigilant and aware because your mind and body thinks that the world is a much more dangerous place. So, you're on high alert all the time. You kind of, you feel burnt out, you get depressed, you get super anxious, you're not sleeping, because your thermostat is reset and that's a survival mechanism. It makes sense. You have to pay attention more because you have been put in a position where you were really, really, really scared. But get this. We can talk about dirt bike riding or some other sports that I've used post-traumatic stress treatments for. Post-traumatic stress, you know, is about, or treatment is about teaching your body to control what you perceive uncontrollable. Right? I know that's again, psycho-babel, but the basic point is, is teaching people to take something with their afraid of and control it and roll with it and overcome it. And then that reduces some of those symptoms of the post-traumatic stress where you're super, super-hyde, you know, so let's just say, this is a great little discussion. Let's talk about being on the dirt bike, right? When you first get on a dirt bike, man, I know that I would get arm pump in the first three minutes because I was holding on to the damn handlebar so it's right, right? Until I learned and my body would tell me and just experience over time, you don't stay loose on the bars, you know, keep control, right? You get your finger on the clutch and your finger on the brake, but just nice and loose, nice and easy. Squeeze the bike with your legs, right? Like don't use so much physical energy. You're not going to control the bike by squeezing that out of it, right? So that's, that's sort of a lesson for like the post-traumatic stress people is, you know what, you're going to have to let go a little bit. You're going to have to roll with it a little bit. You're going to have to throw with it a little bit and that's the psychological sort of lessons that you learn when you do things like that. You apply the post-traumatic stress. So yeah, for sure, it can absolutely be applied. Yeah. Well, and you probably, you'd probably have a harder time with that because I look at these guns that I'm seeing on the internet with your arms and like, of course, you're going to get arm pump. You got, you got so much muscle mass up in there, you know, you can't get the blood out of there. Oh, man, that's so funny. Do it that are built like you. They have harder problem with our pump, like little skinny guys like me. We don't, we don't have that problem as much. I don't know, man. I think it was just the lighting in those pictures, man. I'm not. Yeah. Right. Right. All like 200 of these pictures, the lighting was totally off. Yeah. You may be onto something. Yeah. No, it has been such a fantastic discussion. Thank you so much for spending some time with me today and with, with the viewers and with the listeners on my podcast. I've recorded this for uploading to YouTube. I don't get a ton of people watching them on YouTube, but in podcast land, there's a lot of thousands of downloads and it's just been, it's been an absolute honor. And it's been one of my favorites. And I, what I really hope is that just people kind of take away the fact that our lives are so connected. Our mental health is connected to our physical health and our spiritual health is it's all connected. We can't really as guys and me, especially I like to compartmentalize things. We're good at you probably. I'm sure you know this from your study of the human mind. We men compartmentalize everything. And so in times of my life, I've compartmentalized and says, I'm said, I'm not going to focus on my mental side of things. I'm not even going to think about that. I'm just going to make sure I'm in physical condition and I'm taking care of my obligations or whatever. But now I'm trying to be more holistic in the fact that like, look, all of this is connected as a whole. I cannot just put my mental health back in a corner. I've got to face my fears. I've got to face an addiction or I've got to face this thing. And it's going to help me in all the other aspects of my life. And I think that probably is so much of what you're doing with psychology is helping people to understand these things. And just the fact that we were able to tie them into dirt bikes, I never would have believed that. That we could have done that. And yet we have in such a powerful way, I just thank you for helping us do that. Hey, man, Kyle, it's been my pleasure. 1,000%. You know, I love your videos. You've changed my life for the positive and so many ways. I'm sure you're doing it for your viewers as well. So I'm incredibly happy to contribute. I'm glad we became friends. And you know, and moving forward, man, just, you know, just just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing an awesome job. And thank you so much for having me. Okay, thank you so much. We'll be in touch. I'll cut you loose and we'll catch up real soon. Hopefully we can get out and do a ride. I wish we didn't live 3,000 miles apart. But we'll figure it out sometime. The world is a small place. We'll get together at some point. Thank you so much, Dr. Dom. Appreciate it. Bye. Bye. So there you go. That's Dr. Dom. That was a conversation that I had with him back in April, I believe it was April of 2010. So spent a little over a year ago. Special thanks for him. They're huge shout out. I just can't believe that he came on the podcast and I'd love to get him back on to have a follow up conversation. Maybe I need to reach out to him. Such a cool guy. While while I've got you here, if you've got stupid thing, I'm hitting the wrong button over here. If you've got ideas for podcasts, reach out to me. It's Kyle at Derpy Channel.com. Let me know. Let me know if there's an interview I should be doing. If there's a topic we should be covering, it's a lot of fun to do these interviews. It's a lot of fun to do this podcast. A little bit different format for me than just doing the YouTube side of things. In many ways, the podcast side is a little bit easier. And it kind of gets neglected sometimes and I don't put as much effort into it. And I want to do more of that and put more effort into it. Anyway, hope everybody's having a fantastic summer. If you're watching this anytime around the month of August, here in August 2021, I'm giving away a brand new KTM 250 XEW TPI. It's a 2021 model. These bikes are hard to find. But I have one. I'm giving that away to you. All you have to do is go to my website, Derpy Channel.com in the month of August. So you've got from August first until August 31st, there's multiple ways to enter for this motorcycle. You can even use my links to Rocky Mountain ATV for the first time ever, my affiliate links, which you can find at my website, Derpy Channel.com. You can use those links and get entries into win this Derpy. It's pretty stinking amazing. So go over there, get your entries, Derpy Channel.com. Do that before the end of August. And you'll be entered to win that motorcycle. And I want to do the, I want to continue to do these sweepstakes. I'm going to do them probably every other 30 day or every other month for the rest of the year. Just doing some short sweepstakes works. One bike that you're winning and you've got one month in which to get entered. That's kind of the general idea of what I'm going to do for the rest of the year. So that's what I have for you. Hopefully everyone again has an amazing summer. Stay safe. Stay with your families and keep sharpening your mental help. Hopefully this podcast was useful for you. Thanks so much. Leave a single track. [Music]