Ep 86: Transportation

This is the Disability Disability Podcast with your host Alice Wong. Howdy people! Welcome to the Disability Podcast. Traverse issues are disability monitors, culture and video. Have your host Alice Wong. The latest episode is about transportation with battery revolve. Battery is a disabled urban petter who has passionate about transportation access for the disability community. She has just graduated this year from UCLAs must disturb public affairs. Battery will share how to first begin interested in transportation. The results of a service conducted to help people with disabilities to ensure for sister about disability to do all Jesus services. You'll learn more about disability and battery's vision for inclusive racism of cities in the future. Are you ready? Howdy, you're so much for me by far, J.A.S. today. Thank you for having me. So, Betty, what are you introducing yourself with a job like? Sure. So, my name is Maddie Ruvelo. I'm a disabled transportation planner. I've worked on transportation in several major California cities on a variety of issues. And I'm especially passionate about transportation access for the disability community. So I went to grad school for urban planning specifically to combine my disability advocacy and transportation planning backgrounds. And by the time this episode is released, I will hopefully have my master's degree. Hello, hello. What is trust, right? Yes, definitely. I graduated from the University of California. [Music] So, for your taxate project, you conducted a survey of, even with the smallities and services to do about new mobility to college services. So, before we just got a lot to get to this, what is new mobility? Yeah, so new mobility, also known as emerging mobility, refers to transportation services that are generally available on demand and usually rely on technology, like mobile apps, and real-time location data. This is sort of like this new wave of transportation services that use technology. And so things like lift and Uber, bike share, car share, scooters are all considered new mobility. Ooh. Because I think bike share is something that's, you know, are pretty familiar with, but this broader category of durability, do you think that's still do or does that do? I think it's still new, but it does change really quickly. Bike share systems launched, in, I think most cases, less than a decade ago, scooters really came about just in the past few years, past few years Uber and Lyft sort of like. mid-2010s became much more widespread. Of course, one of the things that's been an issue with lift and Uber, at least in California, is that they're regulated at the state level by the California Public Utilities Commission, because they argue that they are not a transportation service, that they are a technology service, and therefore that they should not be regulated by transportation regulators who would almost anonymously put more restrictions on them, and require more from them in terms of sharing data. They are contested in terms of their accessibility, and many of these services have argued that they think that the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act, does not apply to them again, because they argue that they are merely a technology platform, and not in fact a transportation service. Yeah, thank you for that. I was very happy to tell me a little bit more about the origin and the purpose of the survey. On the one hand, it's frustrating that some starry-eyed transportation planners look at inaccessible scooters and think, you know, this is the future of cities while the sidewalks around them are cracked and the curb ramps are missing. But on the other hand, the conversation about new ability is happening, and I want disabled folks to be part of that conversation. 30 years after the ADA, these companies launched entirely without accessible options, and that's a problem. And then on a practical note, you know, there was a gap in the data. Transportation agencies love data, and SFMTA, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, wanted to understand how disabled folks felt about these services and what their experiences had been. And so that's what prompted the study. It was definitely a process finding the right questions and the right language, because of course I didn't want to ask leading questions. But I also wanted to make sure that survey respondents had the opportunity to share experiences that I knew anecdotally were common. So for example, I asked about different new mobility modes in neutral terms, and you know, I also asked if they had experience with a scooter or a bike blocking the path of travel, because that's something that comes up a lot in just conversations with people. And I also asked a number of open-ended questions to give people the opportunity to share more about their experiences in their own terms. And I also got really valuable feedback from several disabled folks, yourself included, as I crafted the questionnaire. And then I worked with the folks at SFMTA Accessible Services on the types of questions they wanted to answer to sort of create a survey that felt useful and balanced. I also worked with a community-based organization, senior and disability action, I did some pre-survey testing with them, and then also worked with them to distribute survey questionnaires, which were available on paper and also online. And then I worked with SFMTA Accessible Services to distribute the survey to their contacts and then reached out personally to other community organizations in San Francisco. So, you're surveyed up with. Do you want your 80 participants, which I think is pretty bad downstairs. Yeah, I was excited. I mean, of course, you always want even more responses, but this was about a 10-minute survey, which means that disabled folks in SF spent over 2,000 hours sharing their experiences and opinions with me. So, I wanted to make sure that I captured people who didn't have internet access at home or did have a smartphone, people who wouldn't stumble on to the online survey monkey through something that somebody had shared on Facebook or Twitter, which is why, of course, I also had paper copies and why having the partnership with senior and disability action was so valuable. What was it with a big, five-day survey? The big sort of takeaway is that opinions about new mobility among the disability community are mixed, which is probably unsurprising given that people have so many different kinds of experiences. And I did find different results, especially by age, income, and disability type. So, a slight majority of the survey respondents believe that new mobility has a positive effect on their ability to travel. But survey respondents also reported an inability to access new services and they were concerned about the effects of these services on the broader transportation system. Out of all of the new mobility services, people were most interested in some form of accessible on-demand vehicle transportation, which could be through a lift or Uber or potentially accessible taxis. Over 80% of respondents between the ages of 18 and 24 said that new mobility services has had a positive impact on their ability to travel while only a quarter of those 65 plus said the same. So, that's a pretty large gap and it is actually a gap that you see in the non-disabled population as well. In addition to physical and accessibility cost was a major barrier for people in accessing these services. And then finally, three quarters of survey respondents had experienced scooters or dockless bike share blocking the sidewalk and 70% had experienced a close call with a scooter rider on the sidewalk. And I thought this was notable because there was a recent study that found that only 2% of scooters were improperly parked and they actually looked at San Francisco among some other cities. That 2% figure and I have no reason to doubt that that's correct. You know, it doesn't capture what people's experiences with the scooters have been. One thing that really came through and some of the open response questions was that, you know, encountering a scooter or a dockless bike in your path of travel is not just a logistical inconvenience. Although it is that of course, but it also communicates to people that they're not welcome in public space and that their needs aren't important. I think a lot of transportation planners are really frustrated that there's been all this talk about scooters being a problem when a lot of people in transportation planning really feel that cars are the major problem. To me was one of the more interesting findings was thinking about people's experience and in the context of sort of this larger transportation world and the things that. Planners are focusing on and the things that planners consider important. You know, I've definitely experienced a scooter just blocking my way, but I would also say that. What's not taken it to account is, you know, the tradition of a sidewalk in which you encounter the scooter because, you know, you're a little less sidewalks where they're poorly-baked. They may be really narrow. You know, some sidewalks, you know, there are a lot of trees with roots so that you really don't have much clearance to begin with on top of a scooter, in a way. So sometimes all of these days to merge into a pretty negative experience. Right. This is definitely something that came through in the survey responses where some people asked, and I think this is a fair question that, you know, asked like, well, why are you even doing the survey, why are you focusing on this right? Like, you know, when people still have these basic needs that aren't met. And I think oftentimes people in the transportation planning world don't even realize or recognize a lot of the time, sort of the basic, like fundamental ability struggles that disabled folks still face on a daily basis. You know, when you talk about sidewalk access at the ADA, you know, public transportation, but there doesn't be that we should adhere about capability. Right. If there has to be room for all of that, yeah, and again, you know, capability is definitely something that's here today. So it's absolutely important to think about the access aspect of ways that disabled people are to be impacted by it. Even before a new mobility came around, disabled folks were not always well served by more traditional forms of transportation. And then also, you know, we just really can't let new transportation services that are totally inaccessible, go without any kind of pushback. Sure, like some disabled folks may not be interested in these services may never use these services. For some disabled folks, they could be really valuable. I mean, you know, sort of using myself as an example, right, my disability is a chronic illness. And so something like a scooter. could actually be useful for me. I think there are possibilities here for disabled folks, and then there are also possibilities with adaptive scooters and adaptive bikes, but we have to have the conversation and we have to say, you know, you can't just ignore our community. Actually, another sort of interesting response where answers were totally split was I asked, would you support an inaccessible new mobility service if there was a fee on that service that went to funding better accessible transportation? So, you know, an example of that might be something like, you know, you have like a scooter share system. Maybe that's not accessible or that, you know, maybe has some adaptive scooters, has like three wheeled scooters or seated scooters, but for every trip taken on an inaccessible scooter, there's money that goes into a fund, and then that fund goes to pay for like better ramp taxi service. And people were really split interestingly enough, there's not necessarily one right answer, but certainly just totally excluding the disability community and saying like, this isn't for you, we don't understand why you're upset about this is the wrong answer. Right, and I feel like, you know, double what, double about us without us, and you know, double to you, anytime, you know, we want to make a case for something, we need data because, you know, editorial evidence is take what it reported, that's based on the experience, but also these larger scale data studies and surveys, really can also bolster any sort of policy change. Spear policy change, you know, even though the five days were, you know, definitive, or it took so like, you know, majority felt, you know, toward way very strongly, other policy recommendations that you think would, you know, theoretically be said, based on what you heard from the survey for cities. Yeah, definitely. So actually, it's interesting. You said a couple of minutes ago, you know, new mobility isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And I actually think that we don't know that for sure. So I guess this is again, where I feel like we have to give the disclaimer that we're recording this in April 2020 in the midst of a pandemic. And by the time that people hear this, you know, the world in general and the new mobility landscape in particular might actually look very different. But of course, one of the interesting things here is just sort of that these are, for the most part, private companies or public private partnerships. And that does in some ways make them less permanent. But I guess first, I'll say that one recommendation that I feel very confident about giving that is evergreen, is that cities need to listen to disabled folks and have disabled people in decision-making roles. That's not even really a policy recommendation. That's just something that they should be doing. Because we are such a huge part of the population and our needs are so often overlooked. And when you don't have disabled people in decision-making roles, you make mistakes that are really damaging to people. Second, having accessible on-demand vehicle transportation was something that really stood out as being important to people. These services should be low cost or ideally free and could potentially be paid for with fees on inaccessible trips. A lot of disabled folks don't drive and a lot of disabled folks don't own cars. The most common way that disabled people travel in the US is as a passenger in a car. And so the ability to have that kind of ride on-demand would be really valuable to people. Additionally, it's clearly very important to people to get these new mobility devices out of the path of travel. So one sort of potential policy intervention. And I think several cities are doing this area that I know best is in Venice, Venice Beach, in California where there's been a fair amount of success with turning excess sidewalk space or space along red curbs into designated scooter parking. Yeah, gosh, I have so many more. But I guess the last one I'll share for now is that cities should build safer pedestrian and bike infrastructure that is accessible to everybody. Several people said that they would be interested in accessible bike share or accessible scooter share, but they were nervous about riding alongside cars. We know that disabled folks are disproportionately likely to be injured or killed in collisions. So widening sidewalks and building bike lanes as long as accessibility is front and center and designs. And I say that again because there are also ways to design bike lanes that make things less accessible for disabled folks. But doing so correctly makes streets safer for disabled folks and also for all vulnerable road users. And you know, if bike and scooter riders had their own lane, disabled folks, A, might feel more comfortable trying these services, if there were accessible options available. And then all riders disabled and not would be out of the way of pedestrians. And so that's something that's like not specific just to new mobility, but is sort of a big ongoing issue within transportation. Oh, and just to get back to what I sort of mentioned before about these private transportation companies, I guess my sort of big takeaway here is just to be skeptical of these private transportation companies. You know, they're mostly backed by venture capital. They're not making a profit. Honestly, it's really expensive to provide transportation, which is why it's primarily been done by the government in the US for the past, you know, long while. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's actually not out of the range of possibility that every single scooter company could fold by the time this episode comes out. I guess I'd, you know, we don't know what will happen with the economy in the next few months specifically. But really like a lot of these companies are in precarious situations. And so I do think public transportation agencies have to focus or have to know where they have leverage. And you just don't have as much leverage over private companies that you're permitting to operate versus, you know, transit service that you yourself provide or even some of these like bike share partnerships where there's a contract in place. And so public transportation agencies have to think long term and they have to protect the public interest. That's great. Does what is your identity of the city want to share us? Do they have future transportation? Or just get it what you're, do you have a vision of visit transportation to be rich? Yeah, I think one thing you posed to me prior to this episode was, you know, that if I were a wizard and sort of had a magic wand and could design an accessible and inclusive city, what would that look like? You know, that's something that I sort of, I'm always thinking about a little bit but was thinking about, especially. And I think, I mean, starting from like a transportation standpoint, right, we want high quality, fully accessible free transit that runs 24 hours a day. We want publicly owned and operated bike share with a variety of accessible options. You know, I want to feature where people take most of their trips either by transit, walking or rolling or bike, which reduces vehicle congestion, which reduces emissions, and then also for those who do need to travel by car, you know, makes necessary vehicle trips less of a hassle. Sometimes folks in the disability community get nervous when people talk about reducing car vehicle travel because some people really do need to travel by, you know, in a car for accessibility reasons or other reasons. But I think really the point is to shift all of the trips that don't need to happen in a car away from cars so that it's really only the necessary vehicle trips that are happening in vehicles. And then, you know, sort of thinking bigger picture, right? Like I want to live in a city where no one's movement or existence is policed where nobody is incarcerated or institutionalized, where everybody is housed and fed, and everyone has what they need to live a meaningful life, however they define it. So that's, I guess, my vision of an accessible and inclusive city. I hope that some of the work that I'm doing can help us move in that direction, and I hope more disabled folks get involved in transportation. issues, whether through becoming a planner or joining an advocacy organization or through some other method, because our voices are really needed. I would love to live in that version of the future and until then I'm going to be working in community with folks to try and get there. Well, I want to live in that world with you, Maddie. Yeah, one day. One day, one day. One day. Well, Maddie, thank you so much for sharing all that you've done. The future has, like, a little bit less potential. I've just really said it. Do you see what you do? That's how you have to run, that you are. You're going to be part of this urban planning transportation world. Well, thank you. As always, your wisdom and guidance is invaluable. You are such a beacon of light in our community. And we are so lucky to have you. This project is a production of the disability visibility projects. Dear all that community, dedicated to creating, sharing, and amplifying disability video culture, all episodes, equity, and stress trips, are available at disabilityvisibilityproject.com As large partners. Did you also find out more about Maddie's research on other websites? The audio producer for this episode is Cheryl Treet. The editor of Chef Maddie for 12, a few music publishers' voices. They substrature partners that I do. The Stitcher, Spotify, Piazzora, or Drupal League. 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