EP #83- Revisiting Our Relationship to Alcohol with Brianda Gonzalez, Founder of The New Bar, an Alcohol-Free Discovery Platform

(gentle music) I kind of feel like alcohol is having a tobacco moment, you know, if you think about how well it's been marketed to women and to everybody, honestly, like we've been told that alcohol is sexy and it's glamorous. So we've been trained to kind of think this is how I reward myself, this is how I cope. We've kind of just accepted that without really, I don't know, taking a second look. And it's interesting to see now with just how much more access to information we have, how much more time we've had to really, like, analyze the impact of alcohol on our physical health, but also, like, profoundly our mental well-being. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast that discusses finding things in life that bring you joy and happiness. This week, I'm so thrilled to have Brianda Gonzalez come onto the podcast to talk about everything related to the non-alcohol space. Brianda's the founder of The New Bar, which is an alcohol-free discovery platform. They have an in-person, storefront location in Venice, California, and they also have online offerings, which is meant to educate people around alternative options to drinking and drinking culture and really normalize the conversation around the sober, curious movement for those who are interested in learning about the benefits of reducing their alcohol consumption. It was such a pleasure to get to chat with Brianda in person in New York. And in this interview, Brianda and I talk about her inspiration for starting The New Bar, as well as thinking about why it's important to reevaluate our relationship to alcohol. She also shares some challenges that she's faced while building The New Bar and some of the difficulties around changing the narrative for what it looks like to not drink or rather drink less. And lastly, we chat a little bit about Brianda's perspective on health and wellness, how she stays healthy in her day-to-day life, and what brings her into orphans. Before we get into the episode, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Anchor. Hi, Brianda. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to actually be sitting physically across from you and putting a face to the voice, I guess. I know. I mean, this is our first time meeting in person. And the cherry on top is getting to do an in-person recording, which I haven't done in over a year now. The last time I did it, I was in Bali. And that was a whole other experience. But it is definitely very different when you get to be in a room with your guest and have a conversation. So I'm so happy to be here with you. Me too. I mean, I hope I can live up to the Bali hype. I feel like that's a pretty tough act to follow, but we'll work towards that. It's not you. It's the ambiance. The lighting's a bit different, I guess, than you would have in Bali, I can imagine. Exactly. And the cost is quite different, too. But aside from all of that, I am so excited to talk about the non-alcoholic space, everything that you're doing. It's really fascinating to me. And thank you for bringing this Phoney Nagroney today. Yeah. So I'm pretty obsessed with the Phoney Nagroney. I think it's got a lot going for it. It's also like National Nagroney Week. And I'm personally the biggest fan of Nagroney's. So I'm really excited to celebrate with you. It's from St. Agrestis, which is actually a Brooklyn-based company. And they are pretty famous for their amarros and just like all these really beautiful bitter spirits that they make. And so they started making these non-alcoholic drinks. And it's one of my favorites. It's also like incredibly sexy. I'm hoping somebody can take a look at this. It is insane. I think like a lot of products, like drinks, for example, the way that it's marketed, the way that it's branded is so important. And what really catches my eye at a lot of these non-alcoholic spirit shops, like spirited white, for example, is just getting to look at all the cool bottles that are there. And I think it makes it a bit more elevated and sexier. And it really just catches your attention. So I love this, and I want to take a sip. Yes, I love cheers. Cheers. Oh, it's good. Isn't that crazy? It tastes like an agrony. I know. And do you feel like there's-- do you pick up that little bit of effervescence? It's like a little bit sparkling. Yeah. So you wouldn't typically get that in a traditional agrony, but they play with a few more lovers to try to replicate that mouth feel and a little bit of that tingle you might get for alcohol. It's really good. And it's giving also like elevated, Shirley Temple vibes kind of. It's an adult Shirley Temple. Yeah, I could totally see. Which I really like, because that was definitely my drink of choice as a-- I love Shirley Temple's, but obviously, this is a bit more sophisticated and it's delicious. So thank you for bringing it. A few steps above. It's like a-- maybe like the Shirley Temple's really sophisticated older sisters. She's steady to broad, and did some interesting things. But it's interesting that you mentioned the branding, I think, in the space. And it's something that I think about so much. And it's kind of like when you think about removing the function of an alcoholic beverage, right? The function being like getting drunk or something. Everything else about the experience becomes so much more important. And I think it's the way that the bottle looks, the way that people speak to you about it, the way the space feels when you enter a store like a spirited away or one of our shops. And I think it's so important that you deliver that excellent experience because it does become so much more about all of the other elements of the ceremony. So it's about the flavor, the marketing, the environment that you're enjoying your drink in. And so that completely resonates. And I agree with you. Yeah, something that I thought about. And I want to get into the new bar, because that's what we're here today to talk about. But something that came to mind as you were mentioning how so many other factors come into play, when you remove the function of alcoholic drinks, it reminded me a lot of just the concept of mindfulness. When you're taking away alcohol, which impacts your memory, it alters your state of mind, it's easy to not be mindful because you're under the influence. But when you're taking that away and you're in a sober environment, you can be so much more perceptive to the taste of the drink, the way it feels in your hand when you're holding the glass, the ambiance, the experience. So I just drew that parallel because a lot of what I speak about on the show is the importance of finding mindfulness in your day-to-day routine and ways you can practice mindfulness. So that was just something that I kind of put two and two together with. Yeah, I talk about this all the time, because I think it's, for me, it's a meditative experience. And so when you think about the complexity of a beverage or something that really delivers on the experience you're used to getting from an alcoholic drink, it's something you feel you should not chug, right? I mean, I guess in a certain context, if you're like a frappro and you feel like chugging a beer, maybe that's what you're after. But generally speaking, if you're holding a drink in your hand, that's sophisticated and really complex, you're kind of meditating over it, and it kind of pauses you to stop and slow down and think about maybe how many flavors you can pick up, right? And how does the bottle feel in your hand? And what notes did you maybe not notice initially that you're starting to notice? What other things about your environment kind of come to your forefront when you're starting to pay attention to all those sensory experiences that you wouldn't necessarily focus on if you had an altered state of mind or were just focusing on getting drunk necessarily. So I agree with the active being mindful while you're drinking and then when you're drinking something that's non-alcoholic, just how many different layers of presence that can unlock for you. - Yeah, totally. And I want to, I'll get back to that because I think there's a lot more we can chat about with just the experience around like drink consumption. Alcohol versus non-alcoholic cocktails. But I'd love for you to talk a little bit about the new bar. So tell me more about what inspired you to start the new bar, how you got interested in the non-alcoholic space and what you've been up to recently with it. - So I originally grew up on Catalina Island, which is off the coast of LA. Some people usually say, you know, the Catalina wine mixer, like the Step Brothers movie when they hear the name. And it's essentially this tiny island off the coast of LA and there's one town called Avalon, which is where I grew up. It's one square mile, totally driven by hospitality, food and beverage, and there's like 16 bars in that one square mile town. My dad's a bartender. And so I very much grew up in that environment, surrounded by alcohol and just the role that it plays in every single aspect of how we unwind, how we celebrate, how we reward ourselves after a long shift of work. And I think for me, the initial interest in non-alcoholic kind of grew over time, I think by being in those environments where it was so hyper-present and then moving to New York City [BLANK_AUDIO] I'm feeling like it was such an integral part of making new friends and you know wanting to kind of steer away from that over time, but frankly if it hadn't been for my dad's illness that he was diagnosed with a couple of years ago, I don't know that I would have like completely had the jolt that I did. So about two and a half years ago my dad was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and as a bartender and a bartender's daughter, that was kind of a big shift for us to think about, okay how do we gather and celebrate and continue to have those ceremonies that he and I really, really appreciate together. And so when that happened, it really forced me to actually look for other ways of doing some of those things that we enjoyed and it threw me down this whole category. So I started experimenting with removing things from drinks and you know some products on the market like I think it was hop tea which kind of tasted like a beer and like felt like a you know a tall can. And yeah so over the the past two and a half years, I feel like there's been so much innovation in the space that it just completely held my attention and I decided to hopefully you know make it easier on other people who are for whatever purpose or reason arriving at the same conclusion that you know alcohol needs to play a different role if any in their lives. I wanted to make that a little bit easier and so I built the new bar and the new bar is an alcohol-free discovery platform. So we have premium non-alcoholic beverages, community tools and resources to help people drink a little or a lot less alcohol. I think that's a really inspiring story to to have be really the inspiration behind starting the new bar and I feel like oftentimes it's not really until like something drastically affects our health that we're like okay we need to make a change which is unfortunate because in theory there are ways that you can implement like healthier habits into your day-to-day life but until you have like this wake up moment or like a wake up call it's that it's so much harder to actually work towards maybe living a healthier life until like something drastic happens to you. But you you're you're totally right there's a lot happening in the space. I just saw that Katie Perry launched a new line or a new brand and a non-alcoholic drink and we see like can you forx for example like Belhadeed I think is involved with that so there's a lot of like influential celebrity figures in the space as well. Definitely a good time to be in the non-alcoholic market and you describe the new bar as this discovery platform. Yeah how does that differ from like a non-alcoholic bar? Yeah so I think for us it's a couple of things so we do exist online and in the real world the way that this manifests is essentially so we have this awesome online platform where we curate and provide non-alcoholic wine, spirits, spirits, bitters, pre-mixed drinks all the things that you could possibly want to make a delicious cocktail without the alcohol. And I really focus on discovery and making that process a little bit easier because I think that this category or this notion of drinking glass or saying goodbye to alcohol can feel quite daunting to a lot of people. So what we do is not only just curate some really great options that we've tasted and experimented with and can fully vouch for as humans but we also have organized the website and built some tools that make it really simple for somebody who might be completely new to the category to get to something that they'll love. So this comes in the form of occasion-based collections, right? So if you think about when you're typically drinking it's usually around some sort of event or occasion. Like a birthday or some celebratory. Right right. It's a celebration you're going to a dinner party or maybe you have a barbecue or you're sitting at home doing a bubble bath and like doing the least. And so what we really focused on is okay let's bring products and options to people that are really catered around the experience and when people might crave a drink. But then even beyond that we've gone and indexed a bunch of information about these drinks. So we really really research and get to know the products that we have and can basically tell you you know the flavor profile that you're going to pick up on the exact alcohol percentage because there are different you know sensitivities to that. Everything's below 0.5 by default because that's the legal definition of non-alcoholic but for some people it's really important that it's zero for example, right? And so we have these really intelligent filters and data points that then make it easy for us to make personalized recommendations. So if you land on our website we're not just like assuming that you know what all these brands are and all these products. But if you give us a little bit of information you answer a few questions will basically give you a curated and personalized recommendation that will help you get towards hopefully a really tasty drink. Yeah I was looking on the website and I saw that like there quizzes you can take to discover kind of like what drinks are the right ones for you or things that you might be interested in. And this whole concept around personalization and customization is huge especially in the health space and in medicine too like personalized health care is really fascinating to me and I think that's what really draws people into especially in what you're trying to do. So I was looking on your website and I was like this is so cool like I can I'm learning something new it's customized to me and it makes me feel more inclined to want to try making an on alcoholic drink and knowing that well these are maybe the types of flavor profiles or products that I would enjoy. Yeah and I found like for example like we were just discussing this phony and agrony really good quality cocktails you oftentimes like can't even taste the alcohol. So like what's really the difference between a non-alcoholic drink and like a good quality cocktail with alcohol. The only thing I guess is just the alcohol in it but there's so many studies out there that show how detrimental alcohol is to our health and our well-being. Yeah 100% and I feel like that's like really part of why you're seeing people kind of turn away from alcohol or at least you re-evaluate what it looks like in their lives and it's it's interesting because I kind of feel like alcohol is having a tobacco moment you know. If you think about how well it's been marketed to women and to everybody honestly like we've been told that alcohol is sexy and it's glamorous and it's an aid when you're sad and it's a celebratory like must if you're happy and so we've been trained to kind of think this is how I reward myself this is how I cope this is how I fit in this is how I look cool and we've kind of just accepted that without really I don't know taking a second look and it's interesting to see now with just how much more access to information we have how much more time we've we've had to really like analyze the impact of alcohol on our physical health but also like profoundly our mental well-being and to see just younger and younger generations be so cognizant of that and I really think it's the mental health aspect that is driving why we're seeing millennials and Gen Z drinking I think it's something like 66% of millennials you know are saying that they're drinking less than the generation before them. Wow. And then like 20% more Gen Z are saying that they're drinking less than the generation before them. So that's just like that's like literally most Gen Z you know individuals that you speak to now are like yeah I don't really need another reason to be depressed or anxious and if I know scientifically and reasonably that this thing is not really serving me I'm probably gonna take a look at that and do things a little bit unconventionally I suppose. It's great to hear that and I you know from my own experience and I think a lot of people probably feel this way too like hangziety. Yes. The term I like to use it's a very common term but if you go out I don't know Saturday night and then Sunday like even if I'm not drinking a lot I've noticed how even just like a few glasses of wine or whatever will impact me the next day like yeah Sunday hits and all of a sudden I'm like overwhelmingly anxious and it's such a waste to have your final day of the weekend be centered around just having that like feeling in your stomach of being stressed and anxious and not really knowing why it's there and more often than not it's due to alcohol. Yeah I mean it's like it's a literal chemical reaction your body is like producing cortisol and your body is like fighting to get this toxin out that that you've placed in it and it's also even more interesting to see like over time how much more aggressively it affects you. like I don't know about you, but for me, I feel like, you know, if I, it got to a point where it's like one to two glasses, one just felt like being hit by a bus and like, if that used to not be the case, right? I feel exactly used to be able to do a lot more. And so now it's kind of nice to be like, okay, I am going to be voluntarily lazy today. And if I'm laying in bed and giving myself a day of rest, it's by choice rather than like, you know, I don't know, by force almost. And like you can actually savor the relaxation of a Sunday versus being in pain, you know, regretting most of your decisions. And I feel like everybody has been there, right? And it's not to demonize alcohol because I actually don't know that saying, you know, completely cut alcohol out. Like, for some reason that is the only option. And that, you know, should be the path that you go down. I think it's an incredible privilege to be able to have the choice to just do less and decide that maybe drinking less days of the week or, you know, once a month or something. That's an incredible privilege to be able to have that. But you do really open up so many doors when you start to talk to people about what a small change might look like, right? And what incremental shifts in your behavior amount to over time. And so that's been like really fascinating for me to have conversations with friends through starting this, right? And I think a lot of the time I've approached people and been like, hey, I'm working on this thing. And they're like, so are you sober now? Like, are you okay? I didn't realize you had a problem. And like, no, that's not really where this was born out of, but it's interesting to see where people's heads go. And like, what the requirement is and what the assumption of like, it's this big leap in behavioral change that I have to make. And so I'm really excited and passionate about enabling people to make smaller shifts that lead to way bigger shifts over time when that is an option. And the science backs that up too when you can take micro steps, small changes, when you make small changes every day, it will amount to something that's much larger and more profound as well. And it's also easier to implement habits into your life when you're starting small, like goal setting. You've just start really small, like create these micro goals, these micro steps. And I think like, you know, to your point around culturally, people have certain assumptions around, you know, why you maybe someone chooses to not drink or to drink less. Or there's like some prerequisite that you have to have suffered from alcoholism or like have an addiction to then want to either cut out or like reduce your alcohol intake. And I think that we're trending away, or we're trending away from that now, which is a really exciting. Given what I think a lot of people like yourself and others in the space are trying to do to change the conversation around is how we engage with alcohol and how we think about a relationship with it. And the reason I think why I'm so drawn to it is because I don't consider myself to be sober. Like I do enjoy drinking, but like you mentioned, it is a privilege to be able to cut back on your alcohol consumption. For my general health, like I just, I want to feel good. And so for me, the reason is just wanting to get a better night's rest. Yeah. Also, I prefer to not drink my calories. Like I prefer to actually eat good food that like nourishes me and fuels me rather than having a ton of soda, for example, or lots of drinks, which can be very high in calories. So I think creating really open and inclusive space for the non-alcoholic community is super important. And that's why it's so exciting for me to see what you're doing. And as you've built the new bar, what are some challenges that you faced with trying to like break through in this industry and change those narratives that you're experiencing that people have around the non-alcoholic community? I've been pleasantly surprised by how well received the concept has been. And generally how open people are to the idea once you disarm them, right? But disarming people is the biggest challenge. And it's because of that reason, right? We've given alcohol all this credit. Look at a menu and it's like the bulk of the drink options, right? And that's just like one physical example. But in every aspect of our lives, we've given it so much, you know, mind share and so much credit to the fun that we have and everything that we do. And so people can have like a true, not identity crisis, but they look at you like you're like nuts at first. And so I think the big challenge has been like disarming and engaging with people in a way that is reasonable. And I think like that part's not the hard part. It's just like, you know, opening a little bit of a door to start that conversation, to actually engage in the conversation. Because I feel like I don't know. In my experience when I was first going, you know, into this whole category and was showing up to a lot of events and just trying to like understand the space and meet other people who were interested in this. It almost felt like the first question was like, how many days sober are you? Or you know, what's your reason for going sober? And for me at the time it was like, oh, well, I am not like totally, you know, I'm actually just kind of dipping my toes in. And I felt like I was immediately maybe wrong. And so I think what has been an absolute joy and something that we focus on all the time is like making sure that that's not the experience that people who come into our space or into our community have. And so, you know, the challenge is like, how do you engage meaningfully and continue to actually have an interesting dialogue that gets you somewhere in a pragmatic and I don't know, like attainable way. So if I walk up to somebody and I'm like, you're giving a bellgover ever, this is it. You are now, you know, sober sister number one. This is what we're doing. They would, you know, they'd have like a visceral reaction to that. And so the challenge and the fun part is to just kind of change people's minds a little bit and then like see how far you end up getting with that, right? I have a couple of great friends who helped me with this project. One of them being our designer and he texted me last night and he was like, hey, just wanted to let you know, like I've been sober for three months now and it was because of our project, you know, and because of the conversations that we had and the way that it truly did feel accessible. And I didn't, you know, I didn't fully intend to not drink for three months when we started this conversation. I actually thought, you know, from literally writing on a doby over and over again, drink glass, you know, how do you drink glass? It's like you're programming your thoughts subconsciously. Yeah. It's kind of like a gateway to sobriety for him. And so that's like the really fun challenge, I think, is just changing people's minds and doing that in a way that's like relatable and just like totally human. Yeah, definitely. And it's a definitely big challenge because it's hard to make people change their minds, especially when culturally we are so conditioned to see alcohol as something that's necessary to enjoy ourselves with college drinking culture. It's an example of how call being a social lubricant. I had a guest on the show who is really a pioneer in the space, Julia Bainbridge and she's awesome. And she's a lot about like college drinking culture and just recognizing how there's so many cultural influences specifically like in like the young adult age group that makes it difficult to like cut back on our alcohol because we see it as something that we need to hold on to. I think there's a lot of work that needs to continue to be done to create spaces even for like younger people. Like kids were 18, 19 in college who were definitely turning to alcohol to have a good time. Like giving them something that they can turn to instead to still enjoy themselves and recognize that you can have fun in school but not have to be completely blacked out for every second moment of you know every waking day. Yeah, and I had a customer actually come into the store with her daughter and her daughter goes to school on the east coast. I guess we are on the east coast now but I'm you know my store is based in Venice and so they came in and you know her daughter is 21. She doesn't drink and she does go to all these you know college parties. She's recently made the decision to just stop drinking. It's been like maybe eight months now and she you know she did speak so much about the social pressure that she feels and like I think she said it was like I feel like a loser for not you know being able to have a drink with everybody and I feel annoyed that like the option is a diet coke and I don't want that you know and there is so much just culturally happening around you that makes you feel which is so like messed up if you think about it that makes you feel inadequate for wanting to do something that's like just better for you and so I think that there's like there's a lot of room for improvement on that front and making that conversation change. But she was walked away from the store and had this bag full of goodies. Her mom shipped her car to Vermont and she was like, "Oh, because we sent her car over there, I literally just packed it full of new bar goodies." So I hope she's doing well and I hope she's sipping on a phony and a growny at a fret party right now, starting an interesting conversation. But I think it is about making those accessible options and then creating moments for that conversation to be had. Because some of her friends now are like, "Oh, okay, let me try that." Then we taste it. And it just starts to kind of, you know, it's a flicker of curiosity or interest and if you can just get somebody to engage a little bit over time, I hope that that's different. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for sharing that story. Here you mentioned that when you were first getting started in the space, you attended a lot of events in the non-alcohol community. And I know that the new bar also has an events calendar. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about the types of events that you've hosted out in California or any future events that my community can look forward to? Yes, absolutely. So I think for me, like, part of the reason that I felt so passionate about having a physical experience. And so like the store is awesome. Every single day that you walk in, there's something on the bar. So we pour a different cocktail and you can taste something and sip while you shop and that's great. But we also have these events that we throw and we do them as often as we can. And it's really just to provide those experiences that people are craving that are maybe a little bit less focused on alcohol. So, I guess, completely not focused on alcohol. Just recently we did this really fun community meetup with a food blogger that I love and admire her name's Andrea. She runs Snackshot and if anybody's listening and loves good tasting things and like really witty writing, you should go subscribe to her newsletter. But we basically got like 150 people together with her this huge block party in the store and around the store and had a record, like player, DJ, you know, playing music, tons of snacks. A lot of people just like congregating and meeting with one another and having phenomenal cocktails that were like mixed, you know, on site. And it was awesome. I mean, like somebody walked up to me and they were like, I cannot believe the social skills in this room. I was like, isn't that wild? Like when you realize you could actually have a full on conversation and the music is loud and, you know, everyone's feeling great. And you literally, if you like, you went to a party but you can, you know, drive home afterwards. And so we've done things like that. We've done happy hours with like a DJ inside our store has like this loft. And so we put like some DJs up there sometimes and we'll dance and it's great. I think people are looking for, you know, an experience that they can have that's a little more interesting. And so we really try to do that as often as we can. And it's great because people meet each other and, you know, make connections through that. And then, you know, continue to take those wherever they go. So this fall, we're going to be doing some fun stuff to some more classes. So like more structured environments for you to learn how to do mixology or, you know, learn how to do non-alcoholic wine tasting and cheese pairing, for example. And yeah, so we're going to keep building that out. And it's honestly one of the best parts of having that space and being where I am. I am jealous. I wish I was based on the West Coast to get to come to all of these events because they sound so fun. And I totally agree, like after COVID, I think people are really craving the in person interaction experience, like community building types of events to go to. And so if you can bring that to a group of people, like really build a collective around that, that energy is like so infectious. So hopefully I can make my way out to California to get to come to some in the future. Yeah, you should. It would be so lovely to have you. And I think all you have to do is experience at once, right? There's always the first time. First time being so we're at a party or first time realizing that you had a full night out and you didn't have a drop of alcohol. And it's really cool to just see people's eyes light up when they realize that that's what just happened and they had no idea. Yeah. Because they were just lost in conversation and dancing and having a good time. Exactly. And I'm kind of mine who you've also met and connected with Elizabeth. She is starting a non-alcoholic, like bar pop up in New York. And so she's been hosting a lot of really amazing fun events. Her company is called Absence Approof. So anyone who's listening, definitely go check it out. But it's great to see that there's stuff like that happening here as well. Don't have to venture too far to get to go to those events, but definitely want to make my way to California at some time. Totally. And it's really cool to see people like Elizabeth and women, honestly, young women leading this movement and being like, yeah, this is something that I want and I know my peers want. And I'm just going to take it into my own hands to create these things that people clearly have a desire for. I think I've been following Elizabeth's journey and it's been so awesome to just see her completely go after it and provide something that people are truly so appreciative of. So I'm going to have to maybe do a coast swap or something. Absolutely. I want to shift gears a little bit and talk more about how you see your like I want to talk a little bit more about how you define health and wellness because I think the alcohol and like the non alcohol industry is one way to discuss like taking care of ourselves and leading a healthy and happy life. But aside from this space, how do you define health and what it means to lead a healthy and happy life and has your understanding of wellness shifted or evolved throughout the course of your life? Yeah. That's such a good question. So I think it's actually just come down a lot to mindfulness. I think like one of my biggest goals and values that I hold really dear is having a deep self knowledge. And I think that when you do and when you know what your body needs and then you do something that is an alignment with that, you are living a healthy and really truly phenomenal fulfilling life. And so sometimes that can look like staying in bed. And I think that that's something that you know sometimes we like overgulpify this idea of wellness, right? And it's like I have to like work out seven days a week. It has to be 45 minutes of high intensity or I have to like buy this crazy cream and like lay on crystals. And for some people that's great and that's what calls them. I think for me it's like what does you know knowing and like actually tapping into what I need and really living an alignment with that. So if it's hey I need to stay up too late and go have a good time with my friends, that to me is healthy in that context, right? And I think a lot of the way that I like to live is through moderation and really just like everything that I do. I go through periods of like intensity and feeling like I want to run you know seven miles or you know do all those things more than I've ever been. And once I do like to run that's a good and dwarf in release for me. But you know I go through periods of that and I'm like great this is awesome. I'm loving it. Like let me stay close to that and do more of that. And then there's moments where you need to pull back. But it ultimately really all comes down to like slowing down enough to understand what you need. And that hasn't always been easy for me. I think by default I'm a bit of an overthinker and I'm me too. Yeah. Yeah. Like we're so wired to be industrious all the time and to be like you know like there's just so many things I can like keep those really anxious and really stimulated. And so I'm really working on just like finding ways to like slow down and practice self knowledge and awareness and then actually acting accordingly rather than being like acknowledged. I know I should do that but I'm going to continue on my hamster wheels then. Exactly. Like there's awareness is great but can only go so far. You can bring things into action. And to your point around you know I love that comment that you made where maybe to you health one night is staying up too late and going out and being with your friends. I think something that I really struggled with growing up and especially in college was like being very hard on myself and very strict about like the rules I was living by. And so if anyone out there is listening who went to school with me they would probably say or they would probably agree with my comment about myself that like I would always be in bed at like an early hour which is great. Like I love getting my sleep and my rest but like I kind of wish that I lived a little bit more. And so there's definitely something to be said around just slowing down enough to recognize like where you need to do more and where you should pull back. Even like a more recent example, I was at a kid cutie concert yesterday with my dad wearing the merch. Yeah. wearing the merch. I had such a great time and we got there way too early but honestly I'm glad we got there earlier because I didn't want to deal with like the crowds of people rushing in and just wanted to be like settled. And so we like wanted to go about to eat before the show began and obviously it's like bark leaves like there's not going to be like the healthy organic options. And so I was like dad like let's just get chicken fingers and fries which I haven't had honestly and I can't even remember the last time I had chicken fingers and fries delicious. And I was standing there with my dad and we're eating like our food and we had a few drinks and in that moment I was so happy because it brought me back to like the feeling of being a kid. And that like honestly can go further in making you feel good about yourself then like forcing yourself to eat something that's healthier just because you know that it has like more nutrition or better nutrition for you. And so I had this moment of realization where I was like yeah like this is not the best food for me but I don't really care in this moment. I'd like nourish the soul too. Yeah exactly. And so it just to your point like health is I think always ever changing and you really have the control like you have it in your hands to decide what is healthy for you in a specific moment like what works for you and what doesn't. And I think that should be a message that's really empowering because oftentimes we feel like we can't control our health and our wellbeing. And of course there are definitely times where things happen and like you can't control that but back to your earlier point on like micro steps like what are small steps you can take every day to leave the healthiest and happiest life possible. 100% and like honestly one year I think it was 2018 my New Year's resolution was to eat more fries best year ever. Like honestly you have to sometimes it's like okay cool I've you know I've been super disciplined and regimented and I'm forgetting how to nourish that childish or like you know kind of indulgent and fun part of myself. And I think like we have the opportunity to check in and really think about what we need and be like okay cool I'm gonna try this for 2018 and and that was great like I totally am with you on you know checking in realizing that experiences have different value and different lessons they're supposed to teach us at certain points in our lives and so you know changing your behavior a little bit is usually in your control and I think the more that you make that accessible the more momentum you can build and like the better the outcome is over the long term. I think when I've like placed you know super conventional ideas of what wellness or health should look like and it's like okay you have to wake up and then you have to meditate for 30 minutes and then you stretch for 20 and then you have the journal and do all these things and like of course those things are so awesome and like objectively when I do those I feel better but those aren't always attainable for me and like it's harder for me to stick with that every single day when life is throwing things at me but it's like okay five minutes meditation I can do that right and if it's like five minutes you know four times a week and if I hit my fourth day in a row I'm getting ice cream it's like great that's a good reward system for me that works and so I don't know I'm working on ways of like introducing more like joyful moments of leisure and reward that are a little bit non-conventional and maybe like don't necessarily adhere to like you know what this week's you know health tiktokers telling me I have to like subscribe to at all times and I have issues with the that girl trend or whatever it's called on tiktok yeah that girl is that it yeah not gonna lie like those videos are fun to watch I'll say it maybe twice yeah yeah but it's it's not very attainable you can't you just can't do that every day um there's sometimes it's not enough time in the day to get up and meditate for 30 minutes and then stretch for 20 I mean yeah when I was the last time I did a an in-person recording at a studio I was in Bali and I was on a yoga teacher training program and every day we were practicing for two hours so the practice consisted of either like starting with a 30 minute breath work and then getting into like an hour and a half yoga session or we would like start with the hour and a half of yoga and then end with 30 minutes of meditation yeah and I loved it like after that month I was over the moon it just it became easier to also implement that um or get better at like sitting still for longer periods of time but something I was so worried about at the end of the program was I once like my life resumes as it normally is like once I start working a job and continue with the podcast and move back up like all these things were happening I was like how am I going to like schedule out two hours every morning to do this to take care of myself and it was really difficult at first because I was really coming off of this high of like feeling so good and then my routine completely shifted and I was like this is horrible yeah you're like oh I've lost control yeah exactly it's the losing control and um something that I've tried to do since then I guess now over the past year year and a half is recognizing that it doesn't have to be the two hours every morning situation like really you can take tiny snippets of that and and infuse it into whatever you have for the day yeah um and I think learning that lesson sooner rather than later yeah it's better yeah it's like I think with you know with a lot of things that I'm I'm thinking about now is it's not binary you know and there's just like so much space in between and you didn't like um succeed or fail because you you know did the extreme version of something that you you know maybe yesterday you thought you would get to um and and it's totally helpful for me to even just be like okay you know I'm trying these like 15 minute workouts in a parking lot right now and I used to be like okay I have to go to berries or whatever that's like my moment it's like 15 minutes and intensity and doing these like lovely 15 minute workouts in a parking lot in the sunshine and I'm having the time of my life and I just like feel so much more energized by that and I never walk away from it being like you know I didn't get enough today like it took a while to reshift my brain of like what I thought you know following my routine looked like it's awesome I feel better like I got some sunshine well you're lucky you're on the west coast because the sun is about to go away here in New York yeah right now so yeah no it's sun can definitely make a difference it's a privilege for sure you've given so many great snippets of things that you start to incorporate in your routine or at least in in your perception of health and wellness that bring you joy like those joyful moments like those nuances of how you define health and wellness but a question that I ask every guest that comes on to the podcast um it's very in alignment with the theme of the show which is everyday endorphins finding things in life that bring you joy and happiness so Brianda my final question to you is what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day okay there's two things I hope it's not a cheat um you can list as many as you want great okay I have this amazing dog his name is Franklin and so you know now what I do is every morning I snuggle him for like five minutes before I get out of bed and it's truly the most phenomenal like thing that I do for my mental health ever um if anybody's on the verge of getting a dog I highly recommend it um so Franklin's brought me a great deal of joy and I just like get my you know guaranteed daily endorphins through him um but another thing that I did is I recently bought a bike and um I think you know I was talking to you about this concept of like trying to incorporate more casual leisurely more like moments of joy as I go about my day and so now you know probably 80 percent of the time if I can get somewhere in a bike I will do that um and it's it's just been amazing I love to look around at the houses you know totally be in awe of the beauty around me and you know know that I'm getting somewhere but I'm doing so in a way that's like really serving me in in more ways than one I love that answer because I just city biked for the first time like two weeks ago I done I done it once in Miami last year but like never New York and it was so nice because I was going to meet a friend down like in Battery Park and I live in Flatiron so I was like oh I guess I could just walk down the West Side Highway but then I was gonna get there like 45 minutes later so I was like no I need to get there quick but I don't really want to take the subway it's nice out so I hopped on a city bike yeah and it's so like maybe it's the feeling of just like going fast like you're just moving through air essentially and I always love to bike but it was such a pleasantly positive and joyous experience yeah so um biking really resonated with me because it's a timely answer that you gave. Yeah, I fit in well with what I recently was up to. I love all those answers and I am just so happy to have had you as a guest here today. Where can my listeners connect with you? Where can they follow along? Everything that you're doing with the new bar. Oh, good. Okay, I would love to see you all there. We are on Instagram. It's the new bar with dots instead of spaces. And then you can order and explore a platform from the new bar.com. And yeah, I'd love to connect to anyone. Our DMs are always open if you need any recommendations or have an event coming up or any burning questions. Our team is usually super engaged and in happy to answer questions too. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This was a pleasure having you as a guest on the show. I'm so thrilled we were able to do it in person too. Thank you for listening and remember to like, rate and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading in Dorfins and find things that bring you in Dorfins every day. See you next time. [MUSIC]