EP 8 The Memo: Black Women, Corporate America, and the Cost of Success

Welcome to Page2Pulse, the emotional heartbeat behind the story. I'm your host, Allison Collins. Welcome to Page2Pulse, the podcast where we take stories from the page and screen and connect them to real life, real growth and real conversations. Today's episode is one. A lot of us didn't know that we needed, but felt deeply when we watched it. We're talking about the film, the memo, a story that pulls back the curtain on ambition, power, sacrifice, and what it really means to be a black woman, navigating corporate America. Now, the film was adapted from a book that is by the same title by Menda Hart. And let's be honest, success looks good on paper, but the emotional costs, the isolation, the pressure to be perfect, grateful, quiet, and exceptional all at once. That part doesn't always make the memo. Today, I'm joined by Ivory Lards who lives this reality every day. She works in corporate America and owns her own fragrance line, Ivory Glutz. So, she understands both the structure of corporate spaces and the freedom of building something on your own. This conversation is about truth, it's about healing, and redefining success on your own terms. So, take a breath, settle in, and let's turn the page and feel the pulse. Welcome to the show, Ivory. Thank you so much, Allison. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I want to start with the film itself because the memo hit a nerve for so many black women. And I want to get your reaction to when you first watched the memo. What was your meaty reaction to watching this? Oh, my goodness. So, when I first heard about the movie coming out, I was excited because I read this book back in 2020 when I was really at a low point in my journey in corporate America. And, you know, it just resonated so deeply with me. And mirrored some of the exact same scenarios and situations that I had faced over my career span. And so, when I saw the movie and it acted out, I just felt like someone understood me. You know, and I wasn't alone, and I wasn't crazy, and I wasn't making this up. I wasn't making the microaggressions up or anything that I was experiencing. So, both the book and the movie just deeply touched me as a black woman in corporate in ways that I never thought that it would really help heal. And some of the things that I had been through in my journey in building my career. That reaction right there, the mix of recognition and discomfort is something that I can relate to from when I worked in corporate America. So, I deeply felt that when I watched a film as well, so I can definitely relate to your own personal experience as well. Very familiar with that. Which character or storyline resonated with you the most and why? I think the whole book resonated with me. But the microaggressions from white women really resonated with me in that, you know, I could see, you know, Minda is played by Colock Tango, excuse me, Pratt. So, take a Pratt. And so, she does a phenomenal job with really, you know, acting out the frustrations that she feels and towards the microaggressions, the confusion that you feel with, you're like, what, what are you? I don't know what's going on here. And so, there was just so many, the film is short, so the book definitely was a page turner. And during that time, I could not put it down because there were so many different scenarios that I just felt like, man, she gets it. She gets it. She understands exactly what I'm going through. Yeah, you know, although this has been some years since this film was released, I mean, I, I could see that these scenes resonated with a lot of black women. And I was very familiar with some of those experiences myself and can relate to it. And I'm sure that a lot of black women are feeling more of those experiences now in the state of where we're at now in this situation with the economy. I think it was last year, there was an increase in terms of black women who left corporate America. And sometime between the 2020 when we had the COVID era and to now a lot of black women, even some of them, you know, exited out of the corporate America and started their own companies. But a lot of things that happened in corporate America is probably even felt more now than it was back when I used to work in corporate America. So do you think that the memo still acts still accurately reflects the black woman experience in corporate America today? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think that a lot of these corporations are antiquated. I don't believe in their policies and procedures and they lack diversity. Although some of the bigger corporations do have, you know, inclusion and diversity. And I have set on some of those committees and given of my time because I thought that I could make a difference with my voice. And I've sometimes been left feeling like they still don't get it or they're still muffling my voice. Or I felt like the diversity in that the inclusion was more geared towards GLBT experiences and not necessarily the black experience. And so, you know, I definitely think that it's still very relevant in corporate America. I don't think that any of the games that they're playing has changed at all. And even in my tenure of being in corporate, I have seen that, you know, the name of the aggressor changes. And the space changes, you know, the body changes, but it's all still the same. There in every department or corporate another company. If I leave one company and go to another company, there's always going to be, you know, a person there that is going to, you know, be a challenge for me as a black woman. And it's very unfortunate. And so, it's very, very unfortunate. I think we've come a long way with diversity and, you know, the things that they're taking into consideration to include black women. But I think that some of the people are still there and aging in those corporate seats and have been at some of those jobs a long time. You know, we all have had that job where we come in as a new person and you have Sally who's been there for 20 years. And she, yeah, she has everybody wrapped around her finger and, you know, so they have the tenure and they have with that tenure and antiquated, you know, mindsets. And, you know, the way that they want things run, you know, in that department or. And so it changes the culture of the company. Definitely. Now, one of the most powerful things in the memo is what isn't said. And that's the unspoken rules. And because there's black women often walking into corporate spaces already doing the emotional math. women have to learn just to survive in corporate America. And I just thought about a time when I first worked in a pharmaceutical industry. And I remember when I decided that I want to go with braids, and that was something that I had a conversation with my manager who was also African-American, and she wore natural and braids. And so I wanted to, you know, check and make sure it was okay to wear that particular style in corporate America. Yes, but think about that. You had to check in with your manager to make sure that your hair style was acceptable for their culture. Yes. Now, that as an adult, to me, that just seems so asinine, right? Like why should we have to constantly be checking for approval in every situation and every environment in which we're in? But I think of two stories. I think of one story. I was let go, maybe around 26. I had a corporate job, a part and they had rift me. And a part of the package was some career counseling. And so I remember going to this career counselor. She was going to help me with my resume and she was an older white woman. And she told me, I remember explicitly the conversation. Number one, she started with, oh, I voted for Obama. That's okay. She has to let it be known that she had voted for Obama. Yes. And then she proceeded to tell me, I knew you were an African-American woman because of your name. Then she started speaking to me and told me, I was at first worried about your hair because during that time, I wore a lot of microbrains. But my microbrains were always fly. You know, but it was an easy style for me. You know, where I could still, it was a protective style. It was cute. And I had two young kids and often had to be at work early. So I needed something that was low maintenance in my lifestyle that would allow me to still look polished and professional and put together without having to worry about my hair. And so she was like, oh, I was worried. I'm worried about your brains, but they look very neat and clean. And so I just remember sitting in that office and thinking, this woman has really dissected me. You know, to a point that I didn't even think about because she was trying to think, you know, she, I didn't even think about my name being such a distinguishing, you know, factor when people are reviewing my resume. I wanted to always make sure that my resume was accurate with my job description and the skill sets. And she was stuck on my name. And so I remember thinking, maybe I should change my name on my resume so that I can just get in the door. And they can see that I have the skills for these positions. You know, and so that has always stuck with me. But even after, you know, you and I met and we were doing marketing and sales out in the field. And we, I worked for that company in two different phases. The first phase we were in the south, I was in the southwest side of Fort Worth. And you know, I had a short hair style, but my hair was all one color. Then I took a break and then I got rehired in North Dallas area because I hadn't moved to North Dallas. And I remember that the girl that was transitioning to a new role was a white woman, young white girl. And of course, my manager was also a white woman. And I remembered her selling me that they had a conversation about my hair. And it's the client. Now I had just come from the hair stylist, the hair salon, you know, maybe a couple of months earlier. And we had decided to color my hair. I had a short pixie. And girl, I had a chocolate brown on, you know, the base and sides. And then the top, we had colors and bleached. And it was like a honey blonde. It was really fire. It was cute. And so when she told me that they had a conversation about my hair. And if my hair was going to be acceptable to the North Dallas clients, I was in shock. Wow. Why would my hair, which was always me, always nicely calm and you know, cute, you know, I didn't have, you know, in our terms, I didn't have the ghetto spikes, you know, sitting up on top of my head. But I was always soft and you know, cute with all my hair style. Absolutely. And so it just really baffles me. Now thinking back on that, that I was always, you know, analyzed, even corporately when I went to present myself. And I'm just trying to make a living for my family, right? Right. Right. Right. And I can totally relate because I remember when I would wear, sometimes I would vary my hair styles. I would wear a sew-in at times. I would wear, I started wearing braids. And then I came out of braids. And they have wore braids maybe once when I worked in corporate America. And then I would wear my own hair because I had long hair. And then I would wear my hair, sometimes natural. And when I wore my hair natural, it, and then I had my hair colored. It was like a honey blonde highlights. And so people were like, wow, you know, your hair is pretty, the texture. And so I, and it had, it took me a while to feel comfortable with wearing my hair in this natural state, in the curly state. Because I felt that I had to wear my hair straight. And I felt that pressure. And then, you know, now, you'll see me with Diana Ross hair in a minute. If I want to wear my hair in a ponytail, I don't care. I'm not, I'm not wearing my hair stuff, anyone in particular, I'll wear my hair today. I want to wear now. And I love that. And so I felt, you know, because when I was in corporate America, I felt that I had to conform. And then, yes, talk to, and I had a great manager, Yvonne, was one of the best managers. She was the best manager I've ever had in my life. Yvonne Blake. And when I had her as my manager, and we had those conversations, I felt more comfortable. Because I was a little shy when I first, if you could believe it or not, in a nearly two decade, you and I, I was a little shy when I first got into the industry. Okay. But I became very comfortable with me and myself. And in my own skin. And you know, frankly, it was the way of me having that freedom like you alluded to in conversation because, you know, you and I both had children. We were raising young children at that time. And we didn't want to be a slave to our hair. We wanted to have that freedom to be able to do and navigate other things with me. We were navigating our corporate job. And then, you know, children, carpooling and all that, you know, having a family. So we were busy. We were busy at the time. And it's a lot of pressure on black women as far as appearance goes. And I remember when I got that marketing and sales position, which I so desperately needed because it wasn't a double in my salary. And so I knew I had to look the part. So I knew I always had to be professionally dressed. But I kept my hair from that point on. I kept my hair in leave. And you know how much that cost. You know, to get good leave and to keep, you know, your hair going to the salon and keeping that style up. And so it was just a part of that conforming. So that we could be accepted and more palatable to them. And, you know, now in my 40s, I've embraced my natural hair. And I would not change my hair for any job. Now. So now that I know better, now that I know better, I definitely try to show up more authentically and I have the confidence to show up more authentically and express. But I think that it's just also it's a change in the culture too, because there are more women with locks and all of that corporately now than ever. But yes, you still get the, oh my hair, you're here. Oh, you know, the comments about your hair, are they want to touch your hair? You know, like we're a museum artifact. [LAUGHTER] You know what? You just made me think about when I used to teach. And I was, I did a segment, I did a lesson on, I'm not about my hair. And I used to teach health and wellness. And I taught journalism and creative writing classes and speech and debate. And for one of my classes, I did a lesson. And I would start off with a quote and our song. And then we'll have our discussion at the beginning of class before we actually got into our lesson lesson. And so it was like a warm up. You know, when he's first coming to the classroom, just to open up discussions. And so I remember playing the song by India Iri. I'm not here. Yes. And that's still the thing. And so that brought up a lot. And I came to work with my hair in this natural state being curly. And so the kids were like, oh, I don't have your hair. And so and I was able to talk to the girls. And some of the girls embrace their natural hair and would wear their natural hair. And I just happened to work in a predominant black school. So it was easier for them to make that transition, too. Yes. Yeah, I felt that it was free. It was very free. And I did not feel that I had to conform to anything, anybody's standard of beauty. Because I was creating my own standard of beauty. So I felt that I had to pass that on to the young ladies. Because some of them were being teased about their hair. And I said, your hair is beautiful. And I would tell them, because sometimes kids can be cool. And they'll say things about some other kids if their hair doesn't look a certain way. Or if it shrinkage, when it comes to the natural state of their hair, they got something to say. But I wanted them to have that confidence known that they're beautiful. With straight hair, long hair, short hair, curly hair, whatever hair that you divide it off the day. Don't be concerned about what others think. And so that's what I try to instill in my students when I used to work in the education field. But along that conversation, it's time to cold switching. And sometimes we don't always even realize that we're doing. Now, I grew up in a predominant-- I went to school in a predominant white school. And so, of course, we learned. We always taught proper even at home. We didn't use that. I mean, we knew, sometimes you get around your friends. And we live in an area where it was mixed. And so you may be slipping cold switch at times. But when you're in school, you're using proper English. You're not using slang that you would use with your friends. So how does cold switching show up in your professional life and what toll does it take on you? I think to a degree, we all cold switch. Now, it's so funny that I always think of the survey question. My corporation is very big on doing surveys. And they always ask this question of, can you be authentically yourself? And I'm like, no. And I'll never be able to be authentically myself, let my hair down, and show them who I really am. And that's just a part of the cold switching isn't always just the proper language, because I talk proper outside of work. But for me, I think cold switching is just in my professional demeanor and how I choose to answer them what I choose to share, because over sharing will get you in some trouble too. And just or just get you in a position that you don't want to be in. I'll say, not necessarily trouble, but in a position you don't want to be in. So as a protective mechanism, I believe that's what the cold switching is, is a protective measure for us to guard our heart and our mind. And I've always had this, also, is another protective thought process is I'm here to make my money. I want to get in and get out. I want to get in, do my job, and get out, and go home. So I can do the things that my money affords us to do. And so it's a degree, yes. All of us cold switch. And if there is somebody who doesn't cold switch and they think they can be themselves, maybe good for them, but in my experience, it is best that we just keep things very professional. Yes. That constant self-monitoring is exhausting. I just-- oh, I'm just-- It is. Yeah, I don't have to deal with that now. It is exhausting. Because you know the cold switching for me isn't-- Yeah. Yeah, the cold switching for me isn't the most exhausting. To me, the most exhausting is when you have to protect yourself and document and see why A, as we call it. And watch your back and be in the defensive position all of the time. To me, that's more exhausting than cold switching. I know that when I have to start a documentation folder because of microaggressions and the gains that are being played are so strong that I have to protect myself. And I have to start backing up with actual documents. With some written pen, some female that need to be saved in case we need to refer back to them for our evaluations and promotions and things like that. So to me, that's more exhausting than not telling them my business or just keeping them very professional with them. Now, the film highlights being overlooked and undervalued. Have you personally experienced that even while doing excellent work? Because I know that you always been a cram of a crop in your field when we worked for the same company going back almost two decades. And I know that you've been a top performer in whatever you've done. So thank you. But yes, I feel like most black women are undervalued and overlooked. And even when we're talking about just being evaluated on our looks, I think they equate our looks to how much skill set we actually have. Like if your looks don't meet a certain standard, then of course your skill set doesn't meet a certain measure. And that's not necessarily true. There are so many gifted and talented black women. And even in some of the positions that I've been in, I knew I could do the job. I knew I was better than some of the other people, some of my counterparts. But I did not know how to play the game, so to speak, like they did, which would then be the key to unlock the promotions, the key to building the relationship so that somebody is advocating for you on the other side of the table. And so definitely, I definitely feel like a lot of times, I felt frustrated because I felt like I was overlooked and undervalued. And so it would blow my mind. Sometimes they would be like, oh my gosh, you can present. Or oh my gosh, you did so good on your presentation. All that email was so eloquent. And I'm like, [LAUGHS] I'm like, are you kidding me? So articulately? Yes, like we can. Forb. Maybe we can't put an email together or a PowerPoint together or Excel document. And so I feel like, you know, our level of excellence has always superseded what they, you know, necessarily think is excellent. So I definitely believe that if really given the fair opportunity and not overlook because of just who we are, that we definitely would have more promotions and be in better positions to support our families and make the money and the income that we deserve. So when you're carrying excellence and expectation, how do those stereotypes about black women impact the evaluations and promotions or leadership opportunities then? I mean, you know, we just kind of talked about it in our last, you know, a question in that. I believe that they judge you before they even give you a chance to really show, you know, who you are and what your skillsets are. And you know, I've had some experiences where there was, you know, corporate bullying and people doing things to undermine the work and your credibility, so to speak. And I remember getting, I had worked my behind off. I mean, I'm talking anybody who didn't want to go and travel to a client meeting. I would take it and go travel to the client meeting in El Paso or Colorado. And I was busy that entire fourth quarter just really, you know, doing all the things for all the clients because nobody else wanted to travel. Most of the women were a little bit older. So they didn't want to travel. They didn't want to do public speaking. And so I remember it came time for the review and some things had happened in the office where I was kind of isolated and I don't know if I want to call it blackball. And still to this day, I don't know what the language is and what they were doing. You know, I do know they were doing some corporate bullying and they were playing a lot of the micro-acresions and trying to discredit me and get their own positioning and so forth. But my manager, which was a white woman, gave me a really poor review. And I remember sitting in that office and thinking, huh? I've been working my behind off. Right. How could you give me such a low rating? I mean, it would be, she gave me low ratings and things like being a team player. You know, or not talking to the other women. And I was like, well, I'm talking to the other women. The other women aren't talking to me. In my view, I was one of two black women on my team. And to just a long story short, I then found out that they were doing to me what they had just done to the other black woman. And the other black woman was silent. They had taken the accounts from the major accounts from the other black woman and given them to me when I got hired. And so no wonder she was looking at me straight. Oh, yeah. You know? And so, and they set me up to do the exact same thing. That same manager had given her a poor review. And the only difference between her and I was that I was willing to fight back. I was willing to take that documentation. And if I needed to go to HR, now luckily enough, this was a big enough company where we had the policies and the procedures in place where we could go to HR and we could make a complaint. That was, I mean, that would have kind of impacted my career ability to move around in that company. And I explicitly stated that if I get a poor review, I can't even move off your team and onto another team within the company. And so I was really blindsided. So I do believe that being strong, being outspoken as a black woman really made me more of a target in that they were like, well, let me teach her a lesson. Let me put her in her place. Let me show her where she really belongs. And so unfortunately, other people were not confident enough or courageous enough to speak up and advocate for themselves. But I think at that point, I had enough. And I'm like, I'm going to advocate for myself because this impacts my career. Yeah. And that type of emotional labor that takes a toll on a black woman and the workplace. Absolutely. Absolutely. And often goes unnoticed and underappreciated. And you're putting in porn, your soul, and your energy into your projects and work. And sometimes it doesn't get noticed and appreciate all the efforts that you put into and taking on additional assignments or additional cases or whatever the situation may be. So that can definitely have an impact and on the emotional well-being of that person. One thing the memo doesn't shy away from is the cost of ambition, especially for black women who were taught that success is survival. And your own journey, what have you had to sacrifice to succeed? Oh my goodness. You know, just trying to, you had to sacrifice time with your kids and your family. You know, at one point in my career, I was a single mom. And I would have to go, you know, and work on the weekend or stay after hours in order to do my job, which meant, you know, that's time away from my kids or some of their activities and I literally would have to have other people help me and my family to, you know, compensate for that because I didn't have the support with, you know, the family, the immediate family and nucleus or husband. So, you know, you definitely have to sacrifice, you know, your time and your family, some of your family time in order to succeed, you know, in order to really show your dedication to the job, so to speak, you know, you never wanted to show that, oh, my family, you know, I don't have childcare or, you know, I can't do this or I can't do my job. So that was definitely always a pressure of, you know, making sure that I didn't show that hand or my personal life because I wanted to show that I could actually do the job and be as competent and successful as the other women. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you kind of touched on this too with my question that I have about, how do black women balance driving for excellence without losing themselves in a process? Oh, you know. That is such a good question and I don't know, I believe black women are the hardest working women there are on the planet. And the amount of load that we take is so huge in that a lot of times we are the only person in our family matriarch. We may be taking care of not only our kids, but we may be, you know, taking care of other extended family members or being to them as well. And I believe that in this day and time if you look at the average of black women as well we have cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and, you know, and strokes at most more alarming rate. I think our health is always taking a back seat and the high levels of stress, you know, and us eventually catches up to us. I don't know that, you know, I mean, now we're in the time in the era of self-care and thinking about self-care. But that's just here recently and then if you think about it, you know, you know, you know, Um, a lot of the pampering and a lot of the things that, you know, you're able to do later on in life, you couldn't necessarily afford. And, you know, the younger years. So I couldn't afford to go and get a massage and have a self-care day. But I needed a break from work or I needed a break from my kids. That wasn't a luxury in which, you know, I had the money for. So, you know, we would find other ways and sometimes, you know, I just don't think that until now, has there been a strive for finding self-balancing, having boundaries, even in the corporate workspace, regardless of the repercussions, you know, I think just now that has come into play. And I am about to be 43. Yes. Okay. There's still black women who won't turn it off. Right. Who go on vacation and think that they still have to answer the emails and they still have to be everything for these companies while they do not take that same care and time for themselves. Hmm. That's so true. Now, there's another layer in that isolation being the only one. What does isolation look like in your corporate experience and how do you cope with it? Oh my goodness. You know, sometimes isolation looks lonely in that in the corporate networking scenarios. You don't know how to fit in. You know, before now, the talks of, you know, the small talk and how to fit in in the small talk, the, you know, talks about the dogs and all, you know, like, it was just uncomfortable because you didn't have anything to relate to with some of the counterparts that you worked with being the only person of color. It looked like going to lunch by myself and eating in my car. But truthfully, the isolation looked like peace. Look like I can sit in my car and listen to my music and gather myself and get my mind right for the rest of the day because I am tired. And when I get off, I still have to go pick up the kids and do this and do that. You know, and so sometimes the isolation looked like peace. But some, in some instances, the isolation just looked very awkward and you don't know what to do or what to talk about in those dry moments. And you just felt like a unicorn, like you just don't belong in some of the spaces. So let's now talk about being your authentic self. We kind of touched on it earlier in the podcast, but how have you felt the pressure to choose being your authentic self and advancing versus advancing professionally? Mm-hmm. So I think there's two fold. I think of two scenarios. The one, I know we talked a lot about our look and the hair, but you know for black women our hair is our crown and glory. And we spend so much time and pride on our hair. And so I truly believe that when I left sales and marketing, then I could tell you that it would be my authentic self. When I started working from home and I didn't have to have so much pressure of looking a certain way of being always under a microscope everywhere I went, I then felt like, okay, I can be me. And in some instances, of course, you know, in sales, the money is good. You know, the bonuses are good. All of that. But that constant pressure to show up and to play the part in the look of certain way, that was a lot. You know? And so I just remember being exhausted and just wanting to sit down somewhere after I got through and had did about eight years out in the field doing marketing and sales. And you know, and I was okay and I took a little bit of a pay cut so that I could work from home and I could be home with my kids and see them off to school or if there was an emergency and my children needed me, I could get to them quickly and without, you know, having to worry about how that looks or being at a certain place at a certain time. And then, you know, I just started to discover myself a little bit more and what kind of hairstyle I liked. And, you know, not having to be under that microscope, I did the big chop. And I don't think that, yes, I don't think that I could have done the big chop and been in a marketing and sales position and not felt judged or looked at differently or had to worry about what are people thinking about me, you know? And so I just made the choice. I didn't want to move up in, you know, after a few experiences, I didn't want to move up anymore. I just wanted to be me and I wanted to do my job and do it well and make my money and I wanted to be there for my kids in my family, yeah. Right. And I very has an amazing supportive husband. Yes, I do. Yes, you do. Now, one thing I love about your story is that you didn't stop at corporate. You actually built something on your home and that's something, the memo kind of hints at, but doesn't fully explore. What inspired you to start your fragrance mind while working in corporate America? You know, being burnt out, being exhausted from being overlooked, being undervalued, I knew that I had more purpose in me and I was praying during that time. God showed me some way that you can use me while I'm here on this earth. I knew that I had more purpose than just to sit in a cubicle or to answer emails and get a pat on the back for putting the email together good or, you know, I just knew I had more talent. I've always been a creative person and, you know, I just really felt completely burned out with doing all of the things and not getting the reward, not getting the pay that you think you deserved. And I've always looked at developmental things and manifesting and I just remember praying. But just show me what my purpose is and I promise you I'll glorify you in that process and through that. And a candle making kit and class came up on YouTube and I just ordered it because I'm a creative person. I think when you and I met even, you know, back then, since, you know, plus years ago. I remember I was doing hair bow. Yeah. I was doing hair bow. And I would stay up all night and do hair bows and it was just therapeutic for me to have a creative outlet. So I've always been creative. And so when I got the candle making kit, I was like, yes. And a part of the reason I wanted to work from home was so that I could control my own environment because I was so stressed out. I was so angry being incorporated around people who would undermine me and, you know, do things to the little you are. Stay little snide things and microaggressions and take you out of character. You know, I had to learn even what that was. You know, it was a fight or flight. and you know I'm a fighter, I'm not I'm not gonna fly it on anything and so just after all of those experiences and wanting to control my own environment I love candles so I started making candles and I just love scent therapy and I would I started doing exactly what you said just trying to have that balance with and trying to find myself again because I had you know all these pressures as a mom and as a wife and corporately and I just felt completely burned out. I had nothing left in my tank and I needed to refill my cup and God gave me the vision and the the business idea for my fragrance line. I relive some fragrance. Yes and I happen to enjoy the fragrance too and you know my favorite. Yes, my all-time favorite. Yes, yes, yes, total buttercash is everyone's favorite. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and I tell you yes I love to to find the sense that resonate and when you inhale it you just feel a release you feel the stress leaving your body. I love for my home and smell good and be clean. I love for my office to smell good and I love taking a long candle, a mat, bubble bath and the whole bath. You know, so I just love all the things. And a good book to read. Yes, I read many of your books in the bathtub. You know when we were talking about a couple weeks ago and you really it resonated me our conversation when you were like you need to really promote yourself more and I felt and I took that advice seriously. So I'm going to start doing more of that self-promotion and get things out and like I had in the past and I'm going to start doing more of that and take you up on your advice. What you said just do. Yes, yes. Blathening are so talented. You are a phenomenal author and a creative person in mind and I love your books and the narcissist. I mean I love a good juicy book girl. Wow, taking my bath and I just love to escape and go to another place just for a little while and that's what your books do. And it's a ministry. Thank you. It's a ministry and I think that as Black women we have to see that our gifts and God gives us and our talents are for the purpose of uplifting other women and uplifting people and you know taking them to another space. I mean reading is so therapeutic for so many people. You can disconnect and get lost in a different world. Oh my gosh. Oh my goodness, yes. Go to an island. Yes, exactly. Italy. Yes, yes. Story takes you. Yeah, exactly. You know, and we kind of like covered this already but you know, there are any other ways that entrepreneurship giving you a sense of freedom, healing or control that corporate space is didn't. You know, it's because I'm absolutely. Yeah. Because I feel like you know, corporate you always have a ceiling and a cat. I think you're always going to be in a box. You have to ask for permission to explore different ideas to learn something new and entrepreneurship just gives you that freedom to really tap into other skills that you didn't know that you had and to not have a cat on your income level and what your abilities really are. And so it's given me so much freedom. I still work full time while doing my business. And I will say I'm grateful for the job and I will continue working until I can't do both anymore. But in entrepreneurship, I have just been widened as far as my mindset and shaking off the limits that I believe that have been placed on me, the limiting beliefs that maybe even I grew up with. Entrepreneurship has unlocked all of that and really showed me that you know, I can go from ideation to conceptualization and in a thought. And I just, I'm in love with that process to see that you know, I can think of this and I can actually bring it all the way like I can complete a project and bring it to actual, to a product, to market, you know, but I will say that corporate has also taught me how to deal with my customers. It gives me a great foundation in how I do customer service and how you know, some of the key cornerstones in my business that I operate from, you know, and so just the level of excellence that even I get give in corporate, I magnify that 10 times over in my business. So, yes, I love it. You know, as we close, I want to speak directly to the Black women listening. Those climbing the ladder, questioning the ladder, or building something entirely different. What advice would you give Black women navigating corporate America while still dreaming of more? Oh, do it. I would say believe in yourself and go for it. We only have this one life and we have so much more talent and so much more to give the world. And so that dream that won't die, that idea that keeps coming up and keeps nudging you and is really a part of your passion and keeps you up at night and really fire is the fire within your soul. I would encourage you to act on it. Little by little piece by piece, I, you should die empty and do not give everything to just, you know, the corporations, use it as a tool and as a financial vehicle to get where you want to go, but you have so many more skills and talents to offer the world. Do not let corporate put you in a box and make you think that you are only good for the title that they hired you for. Your skill sets are transferable. So I was just encouraging to believe in themselves and do it and do it and have faith. And you know, just just go for it. I love that response. And support Black business owners too. Support other Black women who are in their own businesses, whether it's a hair care line, fragrance line, clothing line, support other Black business owners too. What the memo reminds us, and what this conversation confirms is that Black women are not lacking in terms of ambition, discipline or brilliance. What we're often lacking is the permission to rest, permission to be human, permission to define success without disappearing. Ivory, thank you for your honesty, your wisdom, and your courage. And please tell our listeners where they can support your fragrance line. Yes. So you can find me online at ivoryluxhomefragments.com and that's IVORYLUXEhomefragments.com. You can also find me on the social media platforms. Instagram is usually where I'm most active and there it is the same handle at ivoryluxhomefragments. Thank you, Ivory. To everyone listening, if this episode resonated, share it with a sister, a colleague, or a friend who needs to feel seen. This is page to pulse where stories meet healing and truth meet purpose. Until next time, protect your peace and honor your journey. Thank you. Thanks for listening to page to pulse on Allison Collins and has been an honor exploring the stories that ignite the screen and leave off the page. But today's episode will be follow and leave a review. Until next time, keep turning pages, keep watching closely and never stop chasing this story.