Ep.8: Language Acquisition in Early Years

Understanding What It Means to Be Truly Bilingual Hello everyone, and welcome back to Ready Steady Shrewsbury, the podcast where we talk all about education, particularly in early years, and we have lots of special guests. But as always, I'm Louise and I'm joined by Jade. Speaker 1 How has your week been? Yeah, a really great week. Thank you, Louise. It's good to be back. We haven't recorded an episode in a while, so yeah, exciting to be back. Speaker 2 Absolutely. And who is our special guest today? Speaker 1 Would you like to introduce? I would love to. I'm very excited that we have Doctor Eoin Chris Field with us today. Eoin is a specialist in applied linguistics, multilingual education, language teaching and language policy, with a career spanning over 3 decades in academia, consulting and teacher education. She is the founder and academic director of the Oxford Collaborative for Multilingualism in Education. AON's research interests centre on inclusive approaches to multilingual education, language planning in schools, trans languaging, and leveraging home languages in diverse educational settings. She's also an Honorary Fellow at the University of Oxford here at Shrewsbury Riverside. We've been working with Ewan for a few years, looking at the language profile of the families in our school community and slowly changing our approach to language learning. We have moved towards a model of supporting the development of our students home language rather than only speaking in English. So that's sort of the best way I could start it up. But Ewan welcome and we're very pleased to have you with us today. I'm. Speaker 3 Very pleased to be here with you. Speaker 1 This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and the views expressed are solely those of the hosts and I think a really good way for us to start Aon is could you just explain what it means to be bilingual? Because I think before I met you, I had a very different idea of what being bilingual was. Speaker 3 I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding that being bilingual means being perfect in 2 languages, or being equally proficient, or sounding like a native speaker. But actually bilingualism in development is about learning language in a context and for a purpose. And so every child's bilingual profile is driven by the different things they do in each of their languages and developing kind of a strong ability to be able to carry out their tasks, whether that's at home or at school in the in the appropriate languages. And so bilingualism isn't kind of two monolinguals in one or three monolinguals in one. It's really a an aggregate of a child's profile where we know that the way they learn language is rooted to the kinds of things they're doing in it. And a native speaker accent is not the goal, and being perfect isn't the goal, it's just being able to do the things we need to do. Speaker 1 Yeah, thank you. It's really useful because I think like lots of people, I think I assumed it was being fluent in another language. And when you explain to me actually it's just doing the things you need to in that language, I thought, well, actually I think I have more Thai than I've realised and it's made me think about it in a slightly different way. So thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. Why Undermining Home Language is Problematic I think it's been a interesting transition. When I first joined the school 10 years ago, I first arrived and we had a no Thai speaking policy where we would tell the children and the staff not to speak Thai. Obviously it's vastly different now. I think it might be good just to start, Edwin, why is that approach problematic and not how we do things now? Speaker 3 I think there are, there are many different, you know, ways in which it's problematic. But if we're looking purely from a kind of a practical purpose, we know a lot about bilingualism and development. And we know that when children are learning a new language at school, the strongest predictor of how well they'll learn that language is the strength of their home language, their L1. We call it the the language that they've been exposed to from birth and the language of the community in which they live. And so when we think about early language acquisition, parents are often, you know, tempted to do more earlier because they think that that will get that native speaker accent and that kind of fluency. But actually undermining the development of the home language has a negative impact in the development of the the school language as well. And so we have to understand that the first years of a child's life are about building the foundations of their cognitive development and their linguistic structures. And when we do that well in the language that they were born into and live in, the school language will build much more effectively on top of it. But when we undermine that, it undermines their all of their cognitive development and their whole linguistic structure on which everything else is built. So we're much more likely to have kids who end up as adults who are not confident in either language. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's really interesting. I think when we started this, well before we started this project many years ago, speaking to the alumni of our students, a lot of the students came back. You know, they would often go to America or the UK universities, come back to Thailand and felt that they weren't able to contribute into businesses in Thailand, especially in family businesses joining the family business and not having strong enough written and spoken Thai to access and similar with English feeling they weren't. So I think we've seen that in our context sort of many times. Speaker 3 Yeah, it's absolutely classic in context like this. The overemphasis of the development of English leads to kind of what we call attrition or language loss in the home language, which then compounds through kind of lack of fluency or lack of kind of high level academic thinking in the new language as well. And so, you know, when I work with parents, what we talk about a lot is, you know, your job as a parent is to open doors for your children. And having good English and great Thai opens doors for Thai children to live and work all over the world, but also to live and work in Thailand. Having good English or great English and mediocre Thai or not strong written Thai closes doors. It does mean that they are shut out from being a professional in their own context. And they also feel shut out culturally because they've kind of been raised in an environment that values the others so much that they don't even know who they are kind of as as Thai people anymore. And so, you know, language is deeply related to culture. And that's the other piece around early years. A successful early year setting is about the children feeling safe and comfortable and seen and that they can communicate. And if we tell little 3 to 4 year old Thai speakers stop, you can only tell me if you tell me in English, we're essentially telling them I don't see you. And what you have to say or what you know or what you think doesn't matter unless you can communicate it in the right language. And so we're essentially making the early years a hostile environment for them. And that impacts their entire educational journey where they feel like school is a scary place because nobody understands them and they can't tell people how they feel. And so there's a language piece in terms of the, the development of English, but there's also the identity piece. And that the, you know, best case outcomes for a school like this is that kids grow up with two strong languages and two strong cultures and can move between those worlds flexibly according to their choices, which may not always be according to the parents choices. And we know more and more kids are wanting to to be in their home country and stay there, even though their parents maybe had aspirations that they would settle in an English speaking part of the world. And so you know, closing that door to your child means potentially shutting them off from the future they would like to choose from themselves. How International Schools Can Support Multilingual Children And Eamon, what can international schools do? What do you think are the most important things, particularly in an early years environment, to support those children? Speaker 3 So I think first of all, just making sure all children know that your language has value and that we will help you continue using the language. Because when parents choose for an English medium International School for their children, the children generally interpret that as their parents think English is more important. And so when they're little and they're still using Thai a lot with their family and with their extended family and out in the community, their Thai may continue orally. But when we sit them down in year 2 and say, now you're going to learn to read and write in Thai, they go, oh, this is actually really hard. English is easier. I don't really want it. And so, you know, as an earlier setting in particular, that continuous message from the home and from the school that the goal is to be bilingual, that we support your development of Thai as you know, as a part of your identity, but as also part of your linguistic profile. And making sure that continues all the way through the school means as we know better outcomes in English, but also better opportunities for kids. And so it's finding the balance. We do want them to learn English because they're in an English medium school, they're going to write English language exams. But we can balance the development of the home language, both in terms of status and language and the development of English really successfully, as long as we have a staff who has a really good understanding of that and a parent community that has a good understanding of it as well. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think everyone being on board with that message is the challenge, isn't it? And I think actually I've noticed quite a stark difference in the last few years of how that appears in early years. You know when I talk about 10 years ago, when we weren't sort of allowing the children to speak Thai, when you're in early years now when you're a nursery, you're with the youngest children, Thai is everywhere. English is everywhere too. But there's a sense of freedom that I feel also comes from the teaching assistants and the other people in the, in the setting and in the environment and the parents. I've noticed the parents seem more sort of chatty and talkative with the TAS. The whole, the culture of it feels quite different. Have you noticed that Louise being sort of teaching in early years for the last few years? Speaker 2 Particularly this year we've introduce a Makaton in my class to support some of the children, and that's actually really helped me learn more Thai OK, because I'm associating an action with the Thai word. And actually we're introducing Makaton so the children don't have to communicate verbally or if they haven't got the verbal word in any language for us to understand, then they can use the action. But for me, making that a visual explanation of what I mean or what I'm trying to say has helped me understand the children more in Thai because now I'm remembering the Thai more than I would normally. And we're choosing words that are going to be most useful or used more, more common, more often in their day-to-day life. And so now if I don't quite understand what they're saying to me in English because that's perhaps their second language, I can invite them to tell me in Thai. Probably a high chance I'm still not going to understand, but then we can. I've noticed some children in my class have been trying to help translate for their friends as well, so that's been a great too. The Fascinating Way Young Children Acquire Multiple Languages Great. Yeah. And Ewan, one thing that I always wonder about when I'm walking around early years and I meet our families, we have so many children who are bilingual, trilingual, some who speak 4 languages really confidently. How how do they do that so confidently at 3 like it? I find it quite fascinating how how does that? Speaker 2 Work. Speaker 3 So I think there are kind of two different things to think about. The first is that many of your children are what we call simultaneous bilinguals. They've had two or three languages from birth, and simultaneous bilingualism is the most successful way to become bilingual. And so we know that, you know, from birth, being exposed to two or three languages, children can develop them at the same pace as they would one and use them equally easily. And so it's that kind of age and stage when you're starting from birth with more than one language, it tends to be quite successful. But what we see in early years, you won't find if you go higher up the school. So those little 3 year olds who are really comfortable in two or three languages, by the time they're six or seven, they're probably starting to become much more comfortable in the school language. And you know, I was just in a meeting with teachers in upper primary and they were saying like actually when we asked them what's that word in Thai, they don't know it a lot of the time. And so, you know, when you think about the language profiles of three-year old children, they don't have to say very much. And it's all very concrete and context embedded. It's about what they're doing, what they're seeing, what they're think. And so we perceive that as a fluency and it is at a three-year old level, but continuing that robust language development all the way up through so that you can be a 21 year old who is equally happy talking about physics and Thai or physics in English or you know, history in Chinese or, and history and Thai in history in English. We see those levels start to differentiate themselves. The longer kids are in English school and the less attention we're paying to the other languages, the more their proficiency does shift being towards, you know, English dominant. Speaker 1 That's really interesting. I mean, we're so we're so in the bubble of early years, aren't we? We often don't don't think about sort of how it developed. But yeah, it's really. Speaker 2 Actually, because one of my friends was showing me a piece of writing that her five year old nephew had done in the UK that it stuck on his bedroom door. And she said, oh, my mum sent me this. We can't work out what it says. And instantly I read, read knowing what it said because we're programmed as early as teachers and we've learned how to translate their marks as well and their spelling of things. And it was just that contrast of a like a key stage 2 teacher not really having a clue what it said. But for me it was quite easy to read. So even in that sense though, like written communication changes so much. Speaker 1 Yeah, you do become quite attuned to it, don't you? Speaker 2 Eamon Are there particular advantages for children who grow up in a sort of bilingual life with with languages at school and at? Speaker 3 Home so there there can be the research on exactly what advantages is not yet settled it. You know it depends a lot on you know how bilingual they are and you know their contexts and purposes and you know lots of different things. We do know that there are linguistic advantages. So having more than one language from a young age correlates with better language learning ability later in life. It's not a guarantee parents often want to guarantee. But, you know, children who are bilingual from a young age are statistically more likely to be able to learn languages better later in life as well, particularly around pronunciation. We do know that there are social benefits. Children who grow up multilingual tend to be better communicators because they're used to communicating with people who don't understand them. And so they're they become better at thinking about what they said and trying it in a different way. And we see evidence of this, you know, down to very young children. There's a research on trilingual children in Montreal that shows that, you know, they code switch according to people by 18 months. So they'll try and say something to one of their parents in French. And when it doesn't work, they'll switch and they'll say it in their other language. And, you know, they don't even know that the different languages exist yet, but their brain has a sense of different codes and choices. And so they're better able to adapt and go, well, that didn't work this time. How do I do it differently? And so there's a, we're building a kind of a, a strong commutative Dr. and A and a flexibility. And if somebody didn't understand me, what other ways can I say that? And that's really powerful. Speaker 1 I mean, that's so powerful at such a young age and you can see sort of all the benefits that would bring through a, you know, into adulthood. Absolutely being able to yeah, that's, that's fascinating. I. Speaker 3 Thought there's there's also, we know there are kind of social advantages. Children who are raised in multilingual environments tend to be more tolerant of people who are different from them. So they grow up with people who are different from them. They don't see difference as something negative, whereas children who grew up in monolingual environments, when confronted with somebody who's linguistically different, often just kind of shut down or get a little scared. I don't know what to do. And so it's that experiencing the world through, you know, multiple lenses and understanding that just because somebody is different from you, or, you know, your mummy's daddy different from your daddy, or, you know, your mummy and daddy are both different from your nanny, difference isn't necessarily negative. And I think those are really powerful social benefits as well. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's brilliant. Thank you, Owen. Protecting Home Language and Rethinking School Assessments I was thinking about our sort of context here at Shrewsbury where most of our families are Thai. So if we're sort of really celebrating and developing and believe in the benefit of developing the home language at school, what should parents do at home? Do you should they speak a little bit of English with the children at home, or should they just focus completely on the home language, the L1 first language, Thai? Speaker 3 So I mean, generally the advice we give is the home language is the parents job. Yeah. Because as children go through an English medium school, their English will become better and better and better. And as their English becomes better, if their parents are using English with them at home as well, they'll just stop using time because it's easier than for them in English. And so we see kids draw away from the home language where the parents have used English in the home as well. And so there's there's quite a contradictory situation because when parents come and work with me when their children are three or four or five, they come, I'm concerned my child isn't developing English well enough. And what can I do to help them develop English? And then I'll say like, just wait, by the time your child is 9, you're going to be coming to me and saying my child's tie isn't good enough. What can I do to help them develop that that their tie? And so we really have to focus on the strong development of the home language and keeping the home a home language environment to make sure that when the children do start developing much more in English, the home remains centred on Thai. If we give away space in the home for English, it will just get bigger and bigger. And then I work with parents who say, like, my child will never use my language with me now. I speak to them in Thai or in Chinese or in Korean, and they'll only respond in English. And that's because English is like a Pac-Man of languages. As soon as kids have it and it's growing and they recognize where it gets them in the world, they start to want to only use English. And if they, if they live in a home where their parents have been flexible and have used a little bit or a lot of English, the kids will just lean into that and go, well, you use English with me sometimes. So now I want you to use English with me all the time. Speaker 1 Makes so much sense. So it's really protecting that home language in the home environment as long as you can, yeah. Speaker 3 Absolutely. And being sure that it develops. So if your children are bringing homework home from school and you're doing it in English, that's a missed opportunity for home language development. So if you're only talking about math and English and science and English and geography and English and history in English, the home language vocabulary is starting to stagnate around, you know, dinner time, weekends, being nice to your siblings. And so that we start to see that English outpaces the home language and then the children don't want to use the home language anymore. And so keeping the home home for home language also allows you to, you know, let's read the story first in Thai and talk about it and talk about the math and Thai. And then we can be sure that we're continuing the development of the home language at least a little bit more in pace with English than would otherwise be the case. Speaker 1 It used to be when we, so when we assess for our next sort of cohort of students, when we assess, we would, we used to assess in English, we used to assess 2 year olds in English and we used to ask them to come and say hello, what's your name? And they would usually stare at us and not really want to say anything. We've really changed that now. So we flipped it. So I mean from the advice of Aon where we now assess all of our students in Thai, most of them are Thai speakers in Mandarin as well. We have some Mandarin speakers and we have some Mandarin teachers who support us with that assessment and. I think for the most part, we've done quite a lot of work with our parents and we're sort of that understanding is changing and we're on this journey together and we're talking about it. We do still get parents who ask, you know, but will the English come? And we always say like, trust us it, it always does. You know, before I was in EYI was teaching in year 1 and 2 and they are completely fluent by year 1 and 2. I feel like they are so strong with English and it's hard to, for it to go the other way. So yeah, I suppose it's that trust that they're in an International School where English is the main speaking language and they will be fine for the most part with English. Speaker 3 And I think it's also, you know, when we look at that, that research base, the the strength of a home language, we talk about it a lot, say in early years. And that was, you know, my recommendation, you want to assess the kids in their home language because if they're doing really well in their home language, they will learn English. If they're not strong in their home language, then we know that's going to be a child who needs more support. And so we know that that's foundational. But we also know from research that that relationship goes all the way through the end of secondary school. And so the kids who get the best academic results in exams in English are the ones who have strong literacy in their home language. And that's global research. It's not just here in Thailand, it's global that this, you know, that continued development of the home language is linked to better outcomes in English and academically. And so that partnership where it's not just the parents have to keep speaking the home language until English is good enough. It's like this is a commitment to developing bilingualism because that's what will get the strongest outcomes for the kids. How Growing Up Bilingual Impacts Children's Communication So, Ewen, how does growing up as a bilingual child impact children's communication? Speaker 3 So I think one of the things that parents kind of don't even think about until it's happening to them is the impact of creating a different kind of brain for their children. So when we're raised monolingually, our brain functions through a very narrow lens of how that language works. So I have the sounds of English in my brain. I have the words of English. I think that that language works this way. Words go in this order because I only know one way of language working in my brain. But when kids are raised with two or more languages, their brain integrates them into the same common underlying proficiency. They're all connected together. And so those children then they're not like a Thai child and an English child in the same brain and using English exactly like English children and Thai exactly like English Thai children. They're they're connected. And so there's an influence from one language to the other. So sometimes they'll use a sound in one language from the other. And it's perceived as a mispronunciation. We call it transfer. It's just a transfer. There's, there's transfer of structures. So sometimes I hear this from parents a lot. My my child makes sentences in Thai as if they're English. Yeah. So they have different ways of putting words in order. Or we see it in their Thai classes. They put spaces between the words. They don't put spaces in Thai. You put spaces in in English. And so these are not errors. It's not kids doing things wrong. It's that influence of having a brain that understands that language can work in different ways and they just overlay different parts of one language onto another. And kids do that really naturally for lots of, you know, really very complex cognitive and neuro linguistic reasons and social reasons. So parents often think it's a problem when their children mix their languages or they're saying a sentence in Thai and they use an English word, or they're saying sentence in English and use a Thai word, or they pronounce something in the way it would be in the other language. But that's just the interface of the bilingual brain. And we need as parents to accept that this is what we've chosen for, we have chosen for our children to have a different understanding of language. And they'll always be that overlay in the way they speak and in the way they write. And so particularly when children learn to read and write in English first, learning time literacy is much more difficult for them because it's more complex. And so they'll have an overlay of kind of English grammatical structures of the simplistic nature of English. You don't say English phonics is simplistic, but actually, you know, 26 letters versus 44. And so, you know, we just have to accept that we've created a different kind of creature and not problematize it and tell our child they're wrong or that's incorrect or, you know, do it the right way, because then we're saying to our children what we've chosen for you now we're saying is flawed. And so we talk a lot, a lot about this with accent. Parents will come to me and say I want my child to sound like a native speaker in English. Well, which one do you want them to sound? Canadian, American, Australian, South African, like they're from Glasgow, like they're from London, like they're from Newcastle, Like everybody has an accent and the accent you have as a part of who you are. And so even when they're in English school their whole lives, Thai children may grow up to speak English with what we call a Thai accent, but that doesn't matter. That's their identity. They have to have some kind of accent. And so just as well a Thai one if they're Thai, as, I don't know, a Scottish one because they're not Scottish. And so it's that overlay of the way I know language works already on to the new language that comes through and sounds. And so accents are not a measure of proficiency at all. There's no correlation between accent and fluency. Differentiating Natural Language Transfer from Speech Delays And and yet parents often kind of really value that native speaker accent. And so it's understanding that being bilingual is a just a different brain construct and there's not one outcome for every child in terms of ultimately which one they're more comfortable with, what they sound like, what their vocabulary is like. It's completely individual and we need to respect that because every child is individual. Speaker 2 So how would we know the difference between a child that's sort of transferring these language rules from one to the other that perhaps not correct in that other language and not perhaps a speech and language need? Like how would we know that it's not developmental thing that we perhaps need some extra support with? Speaker 3 So I think in particular with speech and language, if a child doesn't have any speech and language difficulties in one language, then they don't have a speech or language delay. If they have a speech or language delay, it would be appear in both or all of their languages. And so, you know, in early years in particular when kids are struggling with the sounds of English, we look to their home language. Are they accurate in their home language? It doesn't matter if the sounds are the same, it just matters if they are age appropriate in their own language, both for speech sounds and for language development, processing and production. And so it's recognizing that being bilingual doesn't cause a speech and language delay, but learning a new language does have an impact. And so also it's just about tracking progress. We know that learning a new language takes a minimum of five years and up to nine years in normal conditions. And when I say normal conditions, that's for kids learning English in England or in Canada, your kids are learning English in Thailand. And so, you know, we always have to keep in mind if we, if we're worried about a child put what we're worried about side by side with how long have they been in English, what's their profile, how are they doing? And then we see, do we have cause for concern? But if they're still in the early phases of English development, we cannot identify if something is transfer or delay through English. And so it's always keeping in mind that or up to 9 years minimum, we have to interpret a child's progress through the lens of the fact that they are still learning English while they're learning everything else. And so parents are often very concerned about children's reading levels. My child is not reading at age level. Well, we should expect them to be reading at age level in five to nine years. So that means if they start in EY one we would want, we would start, start to see children reading at age level about the end of year 3. That's it all the way up to year 7. And so we have to really keep in mind that it's a different journey and we cannot expect people, children to be performing at an age level in any skill in English until they have fully acquired English. And so we just have to understand that their development will be different. And as long as they're progressing, we don't worry. And that means that sometime between year 3 and year 7, your child should be reading at at grade level or above. Speaker 1 Thank you, Owen. Why Language Mixing is Natural and Should Be Embraced That's, that's really useful. And I think there's been a lot of debate going on in school between teachers talking about this sort of Thai and English mixing. And, you know, we've been having these conversations. Some people are sort of saying we should really make sure we separate the two and they're not using words and when we're having an English lesson and they shouldn't use the Thai words in English, the English words in Thai. But the sort of take away I really get from you there is that's natural, that's what's going to happen. And their language, both of their or however many languages they speak, they are going to influence each other and we need to sort of accept and support that and that's fine. Speaker 3 Absolutely. Children are driven to communicate. Children don't stop and think about what language am I supposed to use. They are driven to communicate, and they will communicate by drawing on what we call their whole linguistic repertoire to say the thing they want to say. And especially with our younger learners, they don't really have a sense yet of, you know, the different languages exist and that, you know, I have a choice to make. And so they just use whatever words come most naturally to them. And when we did the parent conference on Friday, I was listening to many of the Thai parents speaking in Thai, and they throw in English words all the time, too. And so they, all bilinguals mix. That's the nature of the bilingual brain. That's the fact that it's all connected in our common underlying proficiency. As kids get older and build their English vocabulary, then they will still mix, but they'll do it more by choice. Because I like this word better and tire because when I'm speaking this, when I'm speaking in English, I like this word better. And tire. When I'm speaking in Thai, I like this word better in English. Or because even though my tie is good because I use it at home, I don't know how to say ecosystem in Thai. So I've got to say it in English. And so that kind of bilingual mixing happens through the lifespan, especially when the kids are in the early phases of using English. If we want to be a holistic child centered early year setting, we have to understand and accept it for our children. We need to be a linguistically inclusive environment. So it doesn't matter what language you say it in, it matters what you have to say. And there's a big piece in there about also how we assess. So if we want to know if kids can understand the concept of numbers, they don't have to understand that in English and be measured in English. Do they understand the concept of numbers in Thai? Yes. OK, then they can do that. You know, as English is developing, the best way to assess actually where kids are in their cognitive development and their development of certain pre literacy and prenumeracy skills is about what they can do in their home language. So I just met with early years teachers and we were talking about phonemic awareness. It's really hard for kids. You're doing all of these rhymes and chants and, you know, bed set Ted red and the kids don't know the words and so they don't get it. But phonemic awareness can be developed in the home language much more successfully. And then we know that transfers to the new language. And we know that children who have really good phonemic awareness in their own language learn to read more easily in the second language. And so it's always thinking about separating out what is kind of knowledge and skill and what is language for a child to understand what rhymes are through a language they don't know well, but they don't get it because they don't understand those words. So how would they notice the rhyming piece? But to learn about rhyming in your strongest language and then to be introduced to rhyming in English, you go, Oh yeah, I already know what that is. It's when the words sound the same in a certain way. And so particularly with early years, that really strong partnership between parents and the school and the teachers about where do we build the understanding and the concept and the skill, and then how do we transfer that to English When we build it well in their own language, the English will come more quickly. If we're trying to build things in English that they don't understand, we're essentially impacting their learning and holding them back rather than pushing their learning forward and pushing their English forward. That's brilliant you. Guiding Parents for Long-Term Bilingual Success and Reflections Mentioned the earliest network conference. Is that your highlight of the week whilst you've been here? Well. Speaker 3 I mean, I have to, I have to be, you know, quite careful because I've worked with lots of, lots of teachers over the, over the days I've been here and it's all a highlight. But I would say that, you know, the work with parents is always a highlight for me because parents just want what's best for their children. But when it comes to bilingualism, parents don't have necessarily easy access to good information. And so they make choices based on what they think is best for their child. And sometimes actually, it's the opposite. So I meet parents all the time who say, well, you know, we chose to use English from birth because we wanted our child to have a native speaker accent. And then their children don't speak their own language. And so parental decisions are always driven by wanting the best for their child. But finding good information about raising bilingual children can be tricky. It can be contradictory. And so if we go on kind of our instinct, often we're making the wrong choices. And so it's the opportunity to work for a whole day with parents and dig into family language planning and dig into here's what the school does and This is why. And then how are you going to plan around that at home to make sure your child has the best outcomes? It's always, you know, both difficult and joyful because for parents, it can be quite difficult to hear that maybe they haven't so far made the best choices or maybe they're doing things that best interests of their child's linguistic profiles. You know, lots of parents always talk to me about we already have our child learning Mandarin too, because surely early was better. Well, they're learning English and they're learning Mandarin. What's happening to their tie? And so it's, you know, that work with parents is about empowering them to know more so that they can make choices with an awareness of what the outcomes will be. Because when you look at that alumni voice that, you know, drove my work here where children who graduated at Shrewsbury say I can't come back and run my family business because my tie is not good enough, their parents didn't ever actually choose for that. They didn't know that that would be the impact. They thought that they'd be getting both. And they were offering their children lots of opportunities. And so in order to kind of honour and respect what's best for the kids by the time they're done school, we have to figure out how we work with parents more effectively at the beginning so that they see that this is a journey we're on. And, and it may feel slower to you than you want it to be because a lot of parents are very keen to have the English develop as quickly as possible. But if we do it in a measured and careful way, thinking about those pathways, that's the way we're going to get those best outcomes for our children at the end of secondary that will take them forward to the rest of their lives. Whereas if we take a very short sighted I want my child to be fluent in English now, that's going to have a knock on effect for the rest of their lives where they will not have access to their home language. I'm sure all the parents involved. Speaker 2 Found that really insightful and helpful in sort of unpicking it so much more and and just hearing you talk about it even I'm feeling really inspired and like I'm learning even more so yeah I think when we're when we're at the. Speaker 1 Conference, yeah, a lot of parents afterwards, I think having those sort of smaller group settings. And I know Owen spent a long time talking to individual families about their situation. I yeah, it was fantastic, really. So thank you, Owen. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for organising the event. Speaker 3 Because it's not often a school organises a whole parent event, really just helping parents in early years understand all of the kind of the nature of the work that we do. Because you know, with the two other presenters, Louise Joupe, you say it in French and Lisa Lowe, we, you know, we talked and we, you know, there are so many intersections of our work. well-being and behavior and play and language are all interconnected and really powerful ways in the early years if we let them be. It's not three different things we're trying to do. It's one thing that we're trying to do really well for the kids we have in our earlier setting. Thank you, AO. Speaker 1 And thank you very much, it's been a real treat to get you. Speaker 2 On the podcast, because you're a sort after lady and you've been very busy, very busy schedule. We've had to do it in your. Speaker 1 Lunchtime. Very lucky. Speaker 2 Yeah, and we've got some more episodes lined up with some other specialists who we've been working with as well. Yeah, so the two other specialists. Speaker 1 From the conference. So we're recording some more episodes with and. Yeah, very, very exciting. Yeah, great.