EP#8- Antiracism and Mental Health with Katara McCarty, Founder of EXHALE

(gentle music) - Hi everyone and welcome back to Everyday Endorphins. This week's episode is discussing anti-racism and mental health and I'm so glad I got to sit down with Katara McCarty. Katara is a sought after coach, author, and podcast host, dedicated to cultivating brave spaces where all black indigenous women of color belong. As a black woman, she's committed to amplifying the richness of their voices and their stories while also advocating for and providing emotional well-being resources through the most recent creation of her app called Exhale. Exhale was born out of the idea that the black and brown community is holding its breath, waiting for the next video of police brutality, the next micro-aggression, or the next negative health impact statistic. The app has content curated by the black indigenous women of color community that inspires self-care, mindfulness, and rest. We know that a lot of popular meditation apps are predominantly in white spaces led by white people. So this reality really leads to a lack of representation and overall support for black and brown people seeking to practice self-care. I feel incredibly inspired by all the work that Katara is doing and I think this needs to be talked about. So I'm really humbled and grateful to have Katara come onto the podcast and talk all about the incredible work she is doing in the mental health space. Disclaimer, we recorded this episode the day after the election. So emotions were definitely running a bit high, but thankfully Biden won. So hopefully there will be a lot of positive change in the next four years and beyond. But without further ado, I am so excited for you guys to hear this episode. Before we get into the episode, though, I want to give a quick shout out to anchor, which is the app I use to record these episodes. And also, if you love coffee, I highly encourage you to order a bag from strive. And if you use the code in Dorfins, you can receive 10% off of your order. Hi, Katara. Thank you so much for coming on to every day in Dorfins this afternoon. How are you doing? I'm-- that's a lot of question. I'm doing all right. I'm glad to be with you. And to talk about my passion. So that feels good. But there's a lot of uncertainty in our society right now in our country. It's the day after the election. So it's one day after noon. So I'm just trying to stay centered and grounded and manage my anxiety and my stress, which is what I'm all about anyway. But yeah, I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. Yeah. It's definitely a very strange time to do this recording, given that the election happened last night. So I'm sure we're all running very high on different emotions right now. I wanted to start out with the episode asking, what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins? And I think this question is especially relevant to what's going on in the world right now, because there's a lot of high anxiety with the election and the aftermath and still waiting for results. So is there something that you've done today or maybe recently that's brought you a bit of happiness and joy? Yeah. I think that that's something just being a woman and a woman of color, a black woman. I have to go get my joy. I got to be really intentional to go get it. And some days feels a little bit harder than others to do that. But the last couple of days and things that I've done is just really practice what I preach. I've been doing some breathwork techniques. I have been meditating, I've amped up my self-care. I've taken a couple of baths, long showers. I ran on Monday. I've ran today, went on a two-mile run. And just really being intentional about my self-care, because I believe, especially right now, for myself and for my community that self-care is self-preservation. And if I'm going to have self-preservation, I got to take care of myself. And so I've also went something else that I did that brought me so much joy surprisingly. I was trying to think of something to offer. My followers, my community, people that follow me on Instagram, all of that. And so I went live on Monday and did a guided breathwork technique with the folks that tuned in. And then yesterday, my youngest daughter joined me. And we were able to just chat about how she's doing, how I'm doing. And then we were able to share what we call grounding technique that's in the app that we launched this summer. And so we were able to do that and share that. And just the response that we got from that, doing that with my daughter seeing her face and sharing that moment. And then also the response that we got and people sharing it and being so appreciative and grateful for having those couple of moments with us on social media actually brought me so much joy. And I was like, oh, this is surprise. Here, I was trying to meet a need, but it really meant a need for me as well. And so yeah, just trying to really practice what I preach. Yeah, there's something so infectious about seeing a large turnout for something that you're engaging with on social media or trying to provide a guided meditation or a breathwork exercise to a larger community and receiving such positive feedback. It really makes you feel so good. And also, I think we can all benefit from just taking a few deep breaths and finding some space and cultivating a bit of inner stillness, especially right now amidst all the chaos that's going on. So I'm very glad to hear that you felt those effects turn inwards. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm so excited to have you talk about all the work that you're doing in the wellness and anti-reasons in space. You recently launched the app X-Hail, which is the first emotional well-being resources app dedicated to black indigenous people of color. Can you talk a bit more about what inspired you to launch this app? Yeah, it's such a crazy-- like when I think about it, as I say, I heard talked to you today, you know, we're in November, the first November. And it was just back in April that I actually got the idea this spring, 2020, was when we had gotten all quarantined pretty much the United States. I were quarantined here in my town here in Indianapolis, Indiana. The end of March, things started shutting down. And I lost-- I'm a coach and a public speaker. And all of that got, like, paused. I lost over half of my clientele speaking engagement's got canceled. It was like what I thought this year, like many people-- well, we thought this year was going to look like came to a screeching halt. And so I was managing my own stress around my own personal, like, what am I going to do? What's this going to look like? Managing my own stress. And then what was happening is the news started talking about how COVID was impacting the black community disproportionately. And they were saying in their reporting that it's because the black community has preexisting conditions. And then that was the story. I think there was a White House press conference about it, too. Dr. Fauci talked about it some other leaders. And while that's true, the black community has preexisting conditions, I know as a black woman, it's not because our skin is black brown. That's not the reason. The reason why we have preexisting conditions is because of systemic racism. And systems of oppression that have been put into place for 400 years. And so it brought a level of frustration for me because I'm like, that's not the full narrative. And just the stress of knowing what was happening in the black community around COVID, then we open up our phones and turn on the news. And we're blasted with the killing of a mod obri, hit our news feeds, playing out in our news feeds or watching this young man running in a neighborhood basically ambushed and killed. Then Brianna Taylor, then George Floyd. Then we had a gentleman Sean here in Indianapolis get shot. It was just like one after the other. And it was so traumatizing. Not that I don't know as a black woman that those things happen. I'm very aware of how systemic racism impacts my community. But to see that play out in my news feed and to also hear white people be extremely shocked about that was traumatizing. And just the anxiety and the stress that I was carrying. And so I was really leaning in and asking myself, like, how can I help in some way? And I got on a Zoom call with a bunch of black leaders. And we talked about it. And something that was said was we have to take care of ourselves as a community. We have to show. for ourselves. And so I was just like, what can I do? What can I do? And I realized like, wait, actually provide resources for my clients. Like, what if I put those resources in an app and also resources that I use personally, like meditation and breath work? Like, I do these things in my own life. And what if I put all of that because, you know, it's not just a meditation app. It's an emotional well-being app. So what if I put all the resources that I give my clients? Is that I access personally and put it in an app for specifically for black and indigenous women of color. And so really the idea came out of a place of grief. It came out of a place of really feeling hopeless for my community and seeing a need and realizing that as I was reaching for some meditation apps, I'm realizing that there was a huge disconnect in where I was personally in real time in April and in March in April and realizing, wait a minute. This is not speaking to me as a black woman where I'm at in this season of our country and this season of my community's life and my life. And so we went to work and we just started hammering away. But the why is what drove me. And so we figured out the what, my family got behind me and we figured out the what, we figured out how to make it happen. But the why was what was completely driving me is really showing up for black and indigenous women of color and what I believe is some of our darkest hours. Yeah, that's amazing. And a lot of what you just mentioned, you know, the trauma that you experienced after the events that happened in May really echoes a lot of the sentiments that I've seen, a lot of my friends were black, share on Instagram and other social media forms, just being deeply enraged by how a lot of people in the white community, their response to these killings were just out of complete and utter shock. And there I've read a lot about, you know, how maybe the white response to these events, it also detracts from the black voices that need to be amplified during those times. And I'm still doing a lot of work in figuring out, you know, how I can make a difference or better understand these forces at play. And I think it's really incredible that, you know, unfortunately during that really horrible and traumatic time, you were able to create something positive out of it and really support your community and help them have access to resources that otherwise don't really exist in the black community and indigenous community at all. And I know, as you mentioned there, these other meditation apps that exist, but I love how your concept around exhale isn't solely focused on meditation. It is really an emotional well-being app. And the real well-being is, you know, it's very popular. The wellness community is very popular in the white community, very accessible. And the reason why it's not as accessible to the black community is because of systemic racism. And I think that we have to, like, keep going back to the elephant in the room, right? You mentioned the shock of white, white, the white community, right? But that shock is because of systemic racism that has kept the white community blinded to the realities of the black and brown communities, right? Systemic racism has been intentionally set up to keep white folks kind of like the blinders on, right? And so, and wellness within our community, it's been, it's not there totally, emotional well-being because of systemic racism. And so we just have to keep bringing it back to, here's, again, I keep calling it the elephant in the room because it's like we've all kind of been operating. And black folks have, you know, we've drank the Kool-Aid too, right? We've digested it. We've internalized racism. So we got to do our own work and our own unpacking as well, right? And so it's not because black folks don't care about their emotional well-being. It's not because we don't want to feel better, right? It's we're dealing with everyday stressors. And on top of that, it's compounded by racism, by anti-blackness, by micro-crushing systems of oppression, and those resources aren't accessible to us because of racism. Yeah, no, thank you for that. Because also, like, there's, I'm, as you just mentioned, it's not as if, you know, people in the black community aren't caring for their own well-being or don't want to care for it. It's just that much more challenging because of all these other barriers, like micro-grestions, like the systemic racism that exists in our society. And it's, it's really hard, I think, like, to conceptualize what that experience is like when, you know, I've personally never had to go outside and be fearful that, like, I could be shot by a police officer. You know, those smaller things that just have never really crossed my mind. And so, it's quite disturbing to think about how there's all these different, like, factors that play that is just, you know, in the black experience that, unfortunately, is part of the black experience and has to be dealt with on a day-to-day basis. I love how you, you know, have really, you know, asserted yourself in this space to provide more accessible resources to people to, you know, cultivate, you know, first of all, like, a community having people on this app, practicing these meditations and other offerings. And I think there's so much, you know, there's a huge power in community building and engaging in an activity together and feeling like your voice is heard and feeling respected and, you know, really involved in that sort of activity. So, yeah, definitely. And that's why I wanted to make the app, like, for us by us, right? Like, there has to be representation there because something that I experienced when I was reaching for some of these resources, that there was a complete disconnect, like, like, do you not understand my community, the black community is emerging right now and you're just basically telling me to be positive. Like, do you not know? And, you know, no slam on them. They've probably put out these recordings at the beginning of the year for the whole year, not knowing that this was going to happen, right? But there definitely was this disconnect. And so, I was like, hey, I'm going to step up to the plate. And I want to take care of my community. My community stepped up for me. I was an abandoned baby. I am biologically biracial, but my white mother abandoned me at the hospital because my biological father was black. She couldn't bring a black baby home. She lived in a pretty prejudice and racist home and family. And so, black women, a black woman stepped up and adopted me. So, I was raised in a black home, in a black community, went to the local black community center, like black neighbors, like, that was who showed up for me. And so, it felt only right that I was coming back full circle to say, if my community is emerging, it is only right. It felt like a duty. It felt like a calling to step up and show up specifically for black women. And so, that's why I created the app. And you mentioned that, you know, it's an emotional well-being app. What makes it emotional well-being app is we do have meditations and meditations were written by me and they were narrated by me. I also have breath work that my daughter, she recorded, so it was narrated by her. She's brown. And then we also have what we call guided visualizations or imagine. And something that coaches, I do with my clients, is we go on an internal guided kind of visualization to explore the internal, our internal world. And there's really power in looking inward and really activating our imagination in that way. And so, we have imagined, so guided visualizations that I personally wrote. I also have a couple that I co-wrote with my daughter and a friend of mine and are narrated by me again and my daughter who's brown, my youngest daughter. And then we also have coaching talks. So I love to talk. I love to chat it up with my girlfriends. And so I just got on there. I like to give encouragement. I like to feel like I'm providing inspiration for empowerment and getting black indigenous women of color to realize that they actually hold the power to wheel and really go after the light. that they desire and deserve, but also knowing that we have those hurdles that we have to jump over. So we have coaching talks and then we also have daily notifications, affirmations that the user, as they download the app, will automatically get those every day in real time. And so we don't type them up for six months or a year or whatever. I got up this morning and typed up the notification in real time. And I think that's important for us because when we got the results of the Brianna Taylor case, I was able to say, Hey, I know I know that we feel unseen again. Let's breathe. Right? You know, yesterday, I know there's a lot of anxiety. I know that we are sensing a lot of stress, remember to breathe. Right? And so I'm able to speak to them in real time. And so we have all of those pages in the app that again, give us a more robust opportunity and resources to navigate through to help us with our emotional well-being versus it being just a meditation app or just a breathwork app. We wanted to make it robust for and really to be honest, to really provide resources that really help me. Like they really do help me kind of navigate life in in this brown body. And that's what I wanted to provide is resources for black indigenous women of color as they're weaving through life, facing what we face on top of everyday stressors, systemic racism, microaggressions, anti-blackness, all the things that they have something that they can go to that speaks directly to those challenges. And that hurt and that harm and that trauma that we face as black indigenous women of color. Yeah. And I love how you mentioned that these affirmations happen in real time. As we've seen over the past year now, you cannot predict what's going to happen in the world. And so I love how you these affirmations, you're keeping them very relevant to the current time because whatever might happen with the results of the election or the next big thing that happens in our world, that's traumatizing or just generates a lot of fear and anxiety. It'll be really helpful, I think, for users to open up their phone and see a message that's very, very curated to the present moment. Yeah, it was really important for me to do that. Now, you know, we're managing that right now because I felt like it was really important again for black and brown women to see themselves reflected back right in the app. So, so they're hearing like, oh, okay. Yeah, that's how I'm feeling. Like, and I've gotten messages even from some of my closest friends that they use the app, they're like, girl, that message, I needed to hear that right now, right? And I'm like, yeah, I know. I did too. So yeah. So it definitely has been something that's unique. I think about exhale that is, you know, it stands out a little bit different from other other meditation apps. Definitely. And when people go on to the app, can they choose whether or not they want to do a meditation or a meditation with a breath work and also like a mini coaching session as well? Yes. Yes. So right now the app is free to download. It'll always be free to download. It's completely free to access. We launched August 25th, which was a couple of days after the Jacob Blake shooting, and I heard his mother and his sister talk. And it just again was like, oh, just broke my heart. Like all over again. I was like, and so I just thought, you know what? We're not going to have a subscription based right now. My community again felt like it was emerging. Let's just open up the app. It's completely free. So yes, you can download the app for free. You can access all the pages for free. You can listen to five meditations in a day if you want and do two of the breath works. You can, you know, listen to a coaching talk. It's like, you can navigate it. However you want and access the resources as they seem fit for you in that moment or in that day. Yeah. So it feels like it's like a very personalized app as well. You really can make your own experience out of it, depending on what you need in that moment or in that space and time. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. And I, I think honestly, it couldn't have been unfortunately better timing to launch the app. And I think, you know, to have the inspiration out of a period of grief and sadness, I think only, you know, motivated you to really put so much love and effort and energy into this to give back to your community. And to really help those in your community feel like they can be empowered to take a hold of their own emotional well-being and health and mental health. Absolutely. I love, love, love, black women. I just love them. Everything about them. Yeah. So I wanted to really show up in a way that, that felt, that felt like I was connecting with them and providing something for them. And what was really beautiful is in creating the app, you know, we put our foot to the gas pedal. I mean, we cranked it out in a few months. And a lot of, you know, late nights writing the meditations, making sure that what I was saying was appropriate and working with producers to produce and mix and the music and picking out all the music and all the things. It was work, but it gave me so much life. I felt emotionally dehydrated during that time. My soul was dehydrated. And every meditation that I would write, every moment that I spent working on this app, working with my daughters, my youngest daughter, we recruited a model and we took pictures like every moment was like I was just drinking it in. It just brought so much life to me that it was such, it's been such a gift for other people, but it has also been such a surprisingly beautiful gift for me as well as the creator and founder of it. Yeah, definitely. And I feel like that also brings in a lot of gratitude as well when you're putting something out there that you're so proud of and you know is generating a really positive impact, I'm sure there's just, you know, an immense amount of gratitude and joy that's filled inside of you that is also a very contagious energy. I feel like also inspires other people to do the same or to spread this message as well. And I do, I want to go back a little bit to the visualizations because I think that's such an interesting like offering to have in the in the app. And I'm curious to learn a bit more about how these visualizations are a bit different from the meditations that you offer. Yeah. So for example, one of the guided visualizations is called inner child. And so basically kind of like a meditation, you close your eyes, we have the user, if they feel safe to do so, close their eyes, do some breath breathing in and out, you're right, just to get into a comfortable position. And then we take them on this journey. The narrator says, okay, imagine yourself in a really safe, comfortable place. And then we continue by saying, now you hear someone calling your name, you go, you realize it's your inner child. And then we continue the journey. And the narrator has the listener sit down with their inner self or their inner child, listen, ask questions like, what would you like to ask your inner child? What does your inner child, you know, some questions are asking you? And we have the inner child ask like, how's your heart right now, right? Like, what do you want to do? And so things like that. And so then we do this whole kind of imagination journey. And then we bring them back to the present moment, have them do some more breath work, open their eyes, and then journal their experience. Because as a coach, I know that most of us have some unfinished business with our inner child. And so our inner child has been hurt, whether that's by loved ones or bullied at school as a child or have some insecurities from our childhood, maybe a teacher told us we can never do that thing or maybe we didn't feel pretty enough or good enough or whatever. And so there's some unfinished business and maybe some pain and hurt and disappointment that we need to go back as adults. We have the power to now go back and take care of some unfinished business. And so we put that specifically that guided visualization. We wrote it, created it to put in the app to say, hey, these are real, real things that as adults, if we're going to move forward in an empowering way and really live our life, the life we desire and the life that we deserve, there's some, there's some things we got to go back and take care of. So inner child is an example, we have one called the future. you where we take the user on imaginary journey to meet their future self five years in the future. What are they doing? What's their essence? What advice do they have for you? And so we use it in a way that then the user has these tools. I like to tell my clients and people that listen to me, we have this invisible tool belt, our life tool belt. And we have the ability to put resources and tools in our tool belt. And now once you go through the inner child visualization, you've got your inner child, you can go back and check on her anytime. You can go now that you've done the future. You can go back and ask, what do I do in this situation? Like, what would my future self tell me? 10 years from now. Is she going to be worried about this? Or are they going to be worried about this? Right? And now I have that tool in my tool belt. And it really is the guided imagining is really empowering us to kind of step up and shake off maybe some limiting beliefs, maybe some inner critic talk that holds us back, right? Some pain hurt from our past, some fear of the future really empowers us to move forward. That's what's so beautiful about the Imagine page on Excel's the app. It's just a beautiful, beautiful addition that really, really, really excited that we added it. Yeah, and I love how it seems like the imaginative exercises are like an active form of meditation. Because it's, I'm sure a very calming process to not only hear your voice in the meditation, because you have a nice, very calming voice, but to take a moment to sit with yourself and face that inner child or think in the future, what your future self might be like. Because we don't really take the time out of our day to sit with ourselves and ponder, be very introspective about who we are and what experiences that we've had contribute to our self-image and our identity. So I love how this imaginative experience is more of like an active thought-provoking meditation, because it is very calming, I think, at the end of the day. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's very grounding. It's very much about centering ourselves. And it's also about coming home to ourselves. So I think in life, stuff happens, right? And it kind of pulls us away sometimes from who we truly are, like our truest, most authentic selves. And what's great about that guided imagining is it brings you home. Like, hold on. My inner child's been with me since the job, right? People may have walked out on me. My mother, again, my personal story abandoned me at the hospital. I wasn't raised by my biological family, but I never abandoned me. And when I went on my inner journey to be with my inner child, that was one of the biggest realizations that I had that while other people abandoned me and left me, I never abandoned me. And so there's something about the imagined page that gives us the tools to come back home to ourselves, which is so empowering. I mean, once a woman knows and comes back home, it's like, watch out. Like talking about power. Absolutely. I mean, I think your personal story as well is just so incredibly inspiring. I wonder, how did you overcome that major obstacle that you faced as a child? And I think, there's something really to be said about childhood trauma. A lot that happens to you as a kid, you can't control. You're just a child. You can't control any of that. So, and I think those experiences really do subconsciously or consciously shape your perspective, or the way in which you view the world and how you interact with others. And at the end of the day, how you treat yourself, which you also mentioned, if you can come back to that inner sense of who you are, coming back to home, it's such a liberating, empowering feeling. So how are you able to cultivate that inner sense of yourself when all these external things that were happening to you were highly traumatic and really hard to grapple with? Yeah, I mean, a lot of work. A lot of work. I had to really come to a place where I stared my truth in the face. And that in itself is hard for us to do. I had to accept that this is my story, but also that the story is not. The book is unfinished that those were pages and chapters in my story. And I can't really, right, like as a child, I can't erase or go back and change the fact that my mama banned me at the hospital. I can't change the fact that that caused me to feel like I wasn't good enough or that I wasn't white enough, right? Or pretty enough, or lovable enough, or worthy enough. And so carrying that through and having a supportive loving family that adopted me. And but also my mom, my mom that adopted me was never married. So we didn't have a great father figure in our lives. And so that brought a whole nother set of issues. And so really, as I kind of came into my 20s, my mid 20s, I had my first daughter at 19, was very, very young, had to drop out of college to take care of her. That's a whole nother set of issues like the her biological father and I very toxic relationship, abusive relationship. And I just kind of came to this place in my mid to late 20s. And really it started, it was like the the light bulb went off when the nurse put my first daughter in my arms. And and and kind of left us. We like had a moment. It was like every bit like the room went dark and there was just like the spotlight on her little face. And I remember holding her and like stroking her little nose and touching her little fingers and realizing that I had some work to do. Not just for me, but for us, for her and I. And if I was going to change and make sure that she didn't go through the same stuff I went through, I had to get on a different path. And so really having her I tell her all the time is like no pressure, but you pretty much saved my life. And she's like, oh my god, mom. You know, I'm like, no, it's true. It was like that I really had it. It felt very much like a spiritual awakening for me in that moment. And and when I say spiritual, I don't mean tied to any religion. It was very much an illuminating moment that was like, okay, Katara, you're going to have to like do some things differently. And really just getting a coach, I got a therapist, got some great women in my life mentors. To really begin to kind of deal with my own stuff. It's like we've got these bags that we're carrying around all this luggage. And and I finally got the courage to and really that was empowered really fueled by my daughter and 19 having her. I got the courage to unpack my bags. And like look in there and be like, oh, oh, that's in there. You know, and deal with those and have professionals that could help me kind of work through some of that. And so to sit here and and talk with you and pretend like it was some magical thing. And you know, I'm just a strong woman and no, I had help. I had people leaning in and not just leaning in, but I saw it out help. I also saw it out help. And I think that we have to be okay with that. And I think the tights turning around that, but realizing like, it's good to have a therapist just on speed dial just in case even if you're not going every week, like I got my therapist like she knows I'm like, girl, I need a minute. Can you give me 15 minutes, right? Because it's another another tool that can put in my tool belt. And we just have to keep really cultivating those tools and making sure that we have them at our disposal so we can overcome the BS that maybe we create it or that other people create it and dumped on us, right? And so it's really, really, really important to to go after those resources really with the vengeance. So you can really have the life that you really, really are desiring. And you absolutely deserve, you absolutely deserve. Yeah, I agree with so many of the points you just brought up and how important it is to put in the work to seek help if you need it. I think we have a misconception as to like what it means to be strong and powerful. Like you're not going to get there on your own. You need to lean on to others to help support you in that journey. And surround yourself with people who want to see you grow in a positive way. And as As you mentioned, it's really hard to face those fears or face those experiences that have really traumatized you and not let them define you as being the entire book, but rather just being a few pages in a chapter that make up your entire life. And I think, as you mentioned, there's a lot of positive change that I do think there is still a lot of work to be done, and especially in college, I mean, a lot of young women in college especially suffer with a lot of mental health issues. And luckily, like in my friend group, we're all very open about talking about these issues, but I wouldn't say it's the case, you know, everywhere. And if you're a black indigenous woman of color or have an identity that is oppressed by racism and misogyny, that it really is helpful if you can find a black or brown therapist. Representation is huge. I know my sister, she's a black gay woman, has been challenging for her over the years to sit across from a white therapist, not that the white therapist wasn't educated enough or had honed their skills or anything like that. It was just the simple fact of representation and not understanding the black community and what a black gay woman faces, right, how that impacts her mental health. And so I think it's important for women of color to really seek out. It takes, it's hard. I mean, I worked with my sister to find a black therapist. Like it didn't happen by a quick Google search. Like we had to go on a journey to really find a good fit for her. And I love Rachel Cargill. She's on Instagram and she has what's called the Love Foundation. It's on my website. I have resources for black indigenous women of color around mental health. And her one of her, I have her as one of the resources. And the Love Foundation will match black and brown women with black and brown therapists. And there's also, you can apply for scholarships and all kinds of things. So, I would encourage anybody that's listening that, again, is a person of color to really seek that out. Because sometimes that's another hurdle. And it makes it difficult to sit in that chair and to go through therapy when there's a little bit of a, again, not a little bit. Sometimes a lot of a disconnect. Just around the different culture that we grow up in as black and brown women. Definitely. And all of these different intersectional forms of identity and also all the different types of oppression. Not only a black person can face, but then you add in the fact that the person's a woman and also gay. That's three different forms of oppression that that person is facing. And so I definitely agree with you, like finding someone who can be a form of representation for you who can really connect and understand is, I'm sure, so incredibly important. One last general topic that I'd like to talk about, and I think we've definitely hit on this throughout the entire interview, but really just combating whiteness in the wellness industry. It's a very, very white dominated space. And there's so much work to be done to make the wellness space more inclusive and more diverse. And I think what I've heard you talk about is finding or allowing for ways for greater representation of the black indigenous community in the wellness space. Are there any other ways that you think we can help make the wellness industry and the wellness space in general more inclusive? Yeah, you know, again, when we talk about diversity, we talk about inclusion, we talk about representation. We can't talk about those things without talking again about the elephant in the room, which is systemic racism. And until the wellness community as a collective is willing to address racism and willing to address white supremacy and white supremacy ideology, it's problematic for black and brown folks to show up in those spaces. It is not safe. And so for me, that was also the motivation to create the app for us by us, right, for by walk, by by walk, right? Because I'm personally not trying to transform the wellness space until leaders in the wellness community say, let's dismantle white supremacy, let's dismantle systemic racism within our industry. There can, there cannot be inclusion because what happens is then you invite more black yoga teachers or more black meditation specialists or breath work, especially into the wellness space. And if the work of dismantling racism has not happened, then you're inviting those people into a place where they're going to be harmed. And so the wellness community has like many, many other industries in our country. It's not the only one. Like many industries have a lot of work to do around really cultivating and anti-racism and practice within their industry, within their organizations, within their companies, within their spaces. And in order to have true diversity, inclusion and equitable space, you gotta be practicing anti-racism, which is my message that I've been speaking on as well as emotional well-being for black indigenous people of color and importance of that and speaking to my community, but also saying to industry companies, communicating to them, you cannot have true diversity and inclusion and equity without the work of anti-racism. That doesn't happen with one workshop, one book, having a couple black friends talk to you about it. That happens because you make it a daily practice. And so I go into organizations and companies and I coach them and we hammer out. Here's some practical steps to actually do the work where it's not optical. And so the wellness community, even some of the apps, it was almost like they got real nervous and started pulling black folks out the woodwork and just throwing them on their app. I need you to do a meditation. It was almost, and I'm laughing, but it's not funny. But it's kind of like, oh, you were trying to really fix them real quick in a very optical way. And if we keep doing things with optics, underlining current of racism is not being dismantled. And so the wellness community has a lot of work to do. I personally, I've decided this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to provide emotional well-being for black indigenous people of color. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put my nose to the grind and just do that for us by us. And it is not my job to transform the wellness community. It's their job to transform white peoples job. When I say there, I mean white peoples job because it is a predominantly white space as many industries in our nation are. And we've seen people step up and truly make a commitment to do the work and are doing the work. And then we have seen people step up and do it in a very optical way. The wellness community has got to dig in and really steer their truth in the face and begin to dismantle systems that they benefit from. That black and brown people are actually harmed, hurt and killed by. Yeah. And it seems like what you're saying is by dismantling this system. It's really by practicing anti-racism on a daily basis and facing it head on and really mobilizing to do something about it rather than talk about it or try to appear to the public that you're promoting anti-racist values. But really it comes down to actually mobilizing and doing the actions on a consistent daily basis is how you can dismantle systemic racism in these institutions. Absolutely. Dead on, you got it, you nailed it. Thank you. I definitely have more work to do and I know as you said, it's not just, you don't just read a book about anti-racism or have a few black friends and then it's all taken care of. It's a conceived to be dedicated to, you have to care about it deeply day in and day out. And I think that's even more important to remember now, especially as the results of the election are coming in no matter which candidate wins, this can't go away. Even if Biden takes the presidency, like there's still so much work to be done to dismantle systemic racism and to amplify the voices of black and brown individuals and give them space for their voices to be heard and promote their well-being and support them in that journey as well. Absolutely. I mean, that's why I jumped on this call with you today to do this interview is because the work can't stop. It won't stop. And I have to keep putting the trumpet to my mouth. I have to keep doing it. have to keep. speaking what I've been speaking about. I have to keep talking about this work and keep talking about the importance of well-being for us as black and indigenous people of color. I have to keep saying that we have to cultivate practices of anti-racism. And so that's what drove me to say, yeah, and then I appreciate you reaching out. Your listeners should know this. You're so sweet. You reached out to me and offered to reschedule and was very gracious and really leaned in and was concerned about my emotions today. And so I appreciate that. And we need more white folks doing this work because it should not rest solely on the shoulders of black and brown people to do this work. We cannot because we don't have power and privilege dismantle systems that oppress us. We need white people stepping up to dismantle systems that oppress us. Definitely. And thank you for your kind words. Before we wrap up this interview, it's been so wonderful to talk with you this afternoon. I was wondering if you had any advice for young black women who have felt systems of oppression and have felt micro-aggression in college and have dealt with racism on their college campuses. What advice might you have for black women who are just in the detrimental effects of systemic racism and different experiences that they might have had throughout college? - Yeah, first of all, I want to say to them that they're not alone because a lot of times we can feel very isolated, especially if we're going to a predominantly white school or we've picked a major that has predominantly white people in all of our classrooms. I just want you to know you're not alone. And my advice would be to access exhale. Like access this resource. Like that's why we put it out there. And there are other resources out there for you. There's collectives of groups of women that and not just women, but those that have identities that again are oppressed by racism and misogyny that are out there for you. And you got to dig a little bit and you might have to do a little research, but you're not alone. And there are people and folks that are experiencing the same thing that you're experiencing and really reach out and get your folks, your squad around you, your people that really understand you. Again, that might be a coach or therapist or mentor or a collective of folks that are your same age, your peers, and also access resources. Exhale will help manage a stress that you experience, anxiety you experience from microaggressions. We have a meditation called microaggression, right? Access those resources. You can also go to my website, charmakarty.com. I have resources on there for black and indigenous people of color. You can look at that resource page. There's so much there that can help be tools for you and resources for you to help manage what you're feeling, what you're experiencing, the trauma, the anxiety, the stress, but also know you're not alone and also know that your ancestors completely support you. They're there for you, whether you can physically see them or not, you have a cloud of witnesses that are surrounding you and upholding you and supporting you. You are not alone. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming onto the podcast today. Thank you for having me. This brought me some life today. I didn't know it was some of the medicine that I needed today. Thank you so much for having me.