Ep. 77: How Brand Photography and Outsourcing Can Transform Your Business with Mycah Bain Photography

(upbeat music) Welcome to Just Another Biz Podcast, the podcast for wedding planners and event pros who want real talk, practical advice, and a little bit of tea without the mean girl energy. Wear your hosts, Carrie, and Gabby, and every week we're pulling back the curtain on what actually goes on inside a wedding business. From the wins, the mistakes, the boundaries, the crazy stories, the bookings, all of it. We share all the behind the scenes and we want to help you grow your business at the same time because we're all in this together. So grab your coffee, maybe you're a Xanax, and let's get into it. (upbeat music) Hey, jobbers, welcome back to another episode. Today we have Micah Bain on our podcast, and we're so excited because we're gonna be diving into two topics that are very relevant to her and that I am actually fascinated about. So we're gonna be chatting all about brand photography and kind of telling your unique story and diving into what also it looks like, running a team that's overseas, and that's what I'm like very, very excited to chat about. But first, let me introduce you to our guest. Micah is a seasoned photographer with over 15 years of experience, running and thriving six figure business, and leading a team of 10. She's passionate about helping business owners elevate their brand through powerful visuals. Micah is ready to share why business and brand photos are essential for success and how transforming your visuals can take your business to the next level. Micah offers a chance to delve into specific aspects of the business offering practical advice, inspiration, and tangible takeaways that will elevate listener skills and empower them to take their business to new heights. Micah draws from her own journey as she explores a wide range of topics to help you navigate the intricacies of entrepreneurship. Micah, welcome to the podcast. - Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. - No, this is gonna be a really interesting chat. Obviously, brand stuff, we always talk about, I feel like Carrie and I talk about this stuff all the time. But the overseas employees is untouched territory for us. - All right. I love it. - Micah, have you always done brand photography or did you start off in weddings or has it always been this more specific niche? - Yeah, it has definitely been flowed over the years. I started more as like a travel photographer than did weddings and added on families and portraits, added on brands, and then over the last couple years, I've transitioned where my team takes now all the weddings, all the families and portraits, and then my team and I together do the businesses and brands. So it's been a very fun evolution and constantly changing. - Yeah, that's so fun. So in terms of branding for wedding pros, which is most of our listeners, it's a lot of wedding planners, but a good majority of just wedding pros in general, who feel like their brand is fine, but might be a little forgettable. Where do you actually start when it comes to visually telling a more distinct story through photos? Like I'm sure a lot of people come to you and they're like, I need an upgrade. And my brand is storytelling. - Yeah. I love to think about kind of a mixture of like who you are professionally and who are you serving. So like what types of weddings? Because that obviously like needs to come through visually and brand wise, 'cause if you're doing country club versus beach destination, versus like off the grid versus, you know, whatever else, that obviously is gonna have a different vibe. And then I think along with that, adding in those personal elements is just fun and exciting. Because when, you know, like imagine, imagine you're a couple of shopping around and you're trying to find someone to connect with on your wedding day. Yeah, obviously you wanna see that they do good work, but people make decisions over sometimes like the craziest thing. So they're like, oh my gosh, I also have a cat named Pickles. This is a sign. - A book, you know, so it's like, that's so random, but also I don't know. I think those are the things that people are really kind of like lean into and like why they make decisions. So I think bringing a mixture of like who you are professionally versus who you are personally is totally key. - And are you put, go ahead. - I was just gonna say you saying like a cat named Pickles, I remember specifically a potential client. We ended up working together, but he, he was like really funny. He's in the entertainment industry, but he brought up like how I had mentioned like three different food elements on my website, like donuts and like pizza. And like that's what we dove into on the call. Like what's your favorite donut? And like it was just like good banter. And I feel like they loved that connection and with like part of the reason why they booked 'cause they're like she's fun and like I love that she loves to try different foods. So I feel like that it is totally like random elements that helps you connect on a call. - Yeah, 'cause also everyone makes a decision in like a totally different way. So you really wanna think about like what, you know, put yourself like in the shoes of like a potential couple and think what that's actually gonna look like. - 'Cause are those being shared on stories only or are you also sharing the personal stuff on your grid? And I know that sounds silly to ask, but it's like we've had some of these conversations of getting like that Instagram is a portfolio for a lot of people. And so are you telling the personal facts in the caption that's relevant to the photo or is it just a beautiful photo of a wedding and then you're talking about a personal thing about your cat name? - Totally. I mean, I think it can be done a lot of different ways. Like I think showing it like on your website and also your grid and then also the stories like, you know, depending on what it is, it could be literally showing like, for example, I love like a handmade ceramic mug. So that would kind of make sense to have been a brand photo. But then I also really like to travel. So that might not necessarily be like physically in a brand photo, but there could be a photo that you're gonna like mention or even like a ring where I might not say, oh, I got this ring in Mexico City, but it's just like adding, adding some kind of interest or I could tell a story about well, I was able to go to Mexico City and da da da da do all these things and then also grab this ring because I thought it was fun and funky. So I think how people bring it about is kind of like a wide variety of different approaches. But yeah, I think there's a lot of options there. - So you're saying you don't necessarily have to Photoshop your cat pickles in every photo? - No, no. - No, and I think, yeah, I think the photos can partially tell a story through like location, colors, props, like all of these different visual elements. But then I think also thinking about like the variety of photos that you want to kind of like show where maybe sometimes it's like the person, you know, the person's on one side and there's text off to the, you know, off to the side, like utilizing like the blank space in both, you know, website and then all of those socials because I think really the goal when you're creating brand photos and videos is to think of like, okay, what are all the things that you know you're for sure gonna need? So maybe have a specific thing or you're like, oh, I have a launch and I know I for sure want something of me doing XYZ. But then also your photographer should be able to like bring more ideas to the table to be like, all right, based on my experience, typically see people also wanting these types of photos and when I bring that up to kind so I thought I wouldn't have thought about it. I'm like, yeah, that's why you want to work with someone who's like understanding your vision and has like the expertise and being able to kind of like bring the full picture to the table, you know? - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, and so like, okay, if somebody, if a wedding pro is listening to this and they're like, okay, I get it, but I don't find myself to be naturally creative or I don't even like to put my face in, right? Like that is, we hear about that a lot. What are maybe a few ways other than gently encouraging them to still show up on camera? Maybe what are a few ways that they can show their personality in their photos, kind of so like going off of what you just said? Maybe there is, okay, their hand with this beautiful ring that they just got Mexico that's a photo of it with some blank space on the side and saying something there, right, or can it be all in the caption where that's more where they're able to, they're better writers than they are creative, it like aesthetically? - Yeah, I think that's a great question and I think like really thinking about that kind of comes back to like who you are and where you excel. Like I'm not a writer, I'm more of a visual person, so that makes that silly thing to you know, the photos. But some people, if you're an excellent writer, then you might benefit from images where you can put text on top of those and make like a sliding carousel post, you know, where you're like leaning into your skills as a writer, but you're still having something that has like a bit more of a visual element instead of just like a whole text block, you know? So then you might want more photos that are, sometimes I call them like custom stock photos where it's like, can we all see in a literal stock photo, like not very engaging in my opinion? But like you could, you could, especially for planners, hopefully I don't know how often photographers are actually kind of coming through and sharing photos of like the events that you've photographed. But in theory, you ideally have photos of like your work in action and you can like put text on top of that. So I think I think there's like a lot of ways to take it and there's definitely not one right direction. I think the only wrong direction is doing nothing. Totally. I think the most Monday of Mondays, Mike, I ever since you told me about Whisper Flow, I'm obsessed. Okay, good. I am an absolute man. I'm just like always in my office, like I'm a little like top, like not using my hands, just like talking to the computer. Yeah, I'm just pressing the button. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I ended up having to upgrade to the paid plan because I was using it so much. Yeah, I did too, but it's such a, like it seems so much time. I feel like I can answer my emails in two seconds. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so everyone get Whisper Flow. Okay, so Micah, let's say, for example, some of our listeners are tuning in and they are like, "I'm just not a creative person. I don't want to show my face," or "I don't know how I'm awkward. I don't know what to do." How I guess can they still show up and show their personality on their Instagram grid? I keep using Instagram just I think because everybody has it. But how can they do that without necessarily showing themselves? Yeah, I think, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is you can still record a story without your face. Like, I just filmed one before this because I'm going to garden. I'm very excited. So I just filmed 45 seconds and they tagged me on my garden. So I'm like, "My hands in there." So to me, that's not really extremely related to my brand per se, but I work with a lot of wellness adjacent clients, so nature, food, that's nourishing, etc. I think it is kind of connected, but I agree because it is pretty vulnerable to get your face in front of the camera. So I have to do that. I think that's way too much pressure and also not realistic. I think it's a pretty rare person who feels good about doing that all the time. So I would say, you know, thinking again to wedding planners, you know, why not film like or have someone on your team or hire someone like film a room reveal and you could just be talking, "Oh, we did this kind of table escape because of this. We wanted to drown these colors." So you're not, you're just kind of like filming with one hand and like maybe you can see your hand pointing in the other or you're just like handing towards, "Oh, and we went with this cake because it's a grandmother's recipe." I don't know, I'm making up random things. You can get some of your personality through talking. So that would be one way. You could, again, we were talking about people who are excellent writers, again, without an idea of kind of the custom, custom stock photos and putting your own words on top of those, making it slightly care-self-host. You could do the same kind of thing for stories, even if you're thinking again to brand photos, like, "Your face does not need to be in every single one of these photos." Like, "This is not senior photos in high school. Like, my team does that. We love it. This is not the same." So I think for this, you could even have some, like, one of my photos the other week I was holding like a world map. So there's like a close-up of like a map or something like that or it could be, you know, we have a hat or it's like the back of your head or like a detail or like a close-up of your hand writing something or there's a ton of different ways that you can show you as a person and you as a personality without it just being like, "Smelling at the camera, smiling again, smiling for the third time." And actually, that's a good point too to bring up like a good brand photographer knows how to showcase your brand in other ways it is just you smiling. Yes. Exactly. And I think that's kind of where it comes to the relationship with, you know, finding a brand photographer who you connect with and is going to guide you along the experience. So for us, for example, we have a decent amount of information on the website so you can hopefully get a sense to do like the photos, to do like the vibe. Do you connect? Okay, reach out. I always like to start with a short call just to kind of be like, "Who are you? What do you want? What's important to you?" And then it also starts to get a bit of the personality. So then, I mean, logistics wise, then I can suggest, "Okay, I think this photo and video collection would be best because of XYZ and here's a couple other options." You know, we have one, a second call kind of locking in. And then as soon as they sign, then I send them a link to a questionnaire, which they know is going to be coming. So that is a chance for them to sit down and like answer questions about who they are as a brand. Go ahead and use Whisper Flow. Then I said a lot. And I have a plugin and just talk about who you are, send me like make a Pinterest board. I'll have some, and I also try to like meet clients where they are like, yes, I would love them every single person. So that might as well form like me to Pinterest board and buttering, butter boom. We do the final planning call, but also some people are more texture. So they want to just send me random screenshots of, I like this person's feed. So I'm kind of like collecting this information from them. So then when we're on our final planning call and we're like double checking like locations, models, outfits, props, all these types of things, I can kind of pull together everything that they're saying. So for example, I had a client last year who was like, I love color. I love bright. I love vibrant. I'm like, fine, okay, I love this. She sends me the Pinterest board, literally all neutrals. And I'm thinking, okay, we can go either way. We can even blend them. But you know, on the call, then I was able to say, hey, you told me you liked colors, but what I'm seeing is more neutrals, just kind of talk me through it. So then I'm able to sense those trends or I'm seeing, you know, maybe there's a ton of certain kind of pose or an ideally, hopefully, people are making a mood board of people who look like them, both like body, shape and size, age, race, however you want to define it. So the mood board doesn't be only you, but if you're 16, your home mood board is a bunch of 25 year olds, like there's kind of a disconnect. So I think all that to say, I'm able to observe all those different things and then kind of like, piece it together. And then also, that's also a great chance for me to set expectations to say, okay, I love these things. I'm noticing a lot, a recent client, some of you, a home mood board that was all in like the Southwest Desert. And I was like, I love this so much. So we are looking at doing a studio on Minneapolis. So I can recommend this one. Like plant shop studio for these reasons, it is going to look different. But here is an example of a shoot I did there. And this is why I think this could be part of bringing your vision to life. And she's moving to the Southwest. So that was like the inspiration. And so I was like, okay, and then, you know, later this fall, I can come to you and we can do more of this type of the version. So then I'm also like planting seeds of like, hey, this is a, we're going to start here, but this is going to be a continuous relationship. So whether that's like a quarterly photo and video session twice a year, whatever it is, but like we're starting somewhere and then we're going to continue that journey together. This is almost like bringing a photo to your hair stylist and they're like, love it. But that's, you know, it's like not any representation of you. They're like, they have different hair, different, like skin tone, different eye color. And I'm like, oh, exactly. Yeah, okay. But I'm sure wedding planners are familiar with that. They'll show you like the cover of vote. They're like, I want this. And you know, like, okay, you're getting married at your local community center. So it is going to like different. But let's talk through the specifics and maybe there's some elements we can pull through. Yeah. Like your whole floral budget is the cost of that arch. Exactly, exactly. But I think, I think those are good conversations to have because it's like, it's, it's like validating and encouraging. Okay. You have a great eye. I love these things. Also, here are, here are things that we can pull out and bring it to life. And it's also setting expectations because you would be doing a total disservice if they show you the cover of Vogue and, you know, Italian Villa and you're like, perfect, we'll do it. You can't, you know, if you're not there. So I think that's just like good expectation setting. And that's going to help the client feel good throughout the process. And also they're, they're going to be happier with the final product as well. I'm like, what do you keep in mind for clients who approach you in that manner? And it's like, okay, well, our end goal is obviously to get a brand photo shoot that's turning potential clients into paying clients, right? And so from your expertise, like, what are you communicating to your clients or like doing within a session to make sure that those brand photos in the end are helping them to turn potential customers into paying clients? Yeah. I think, I think again, that kind of gets back to like the brand questionnaire or the series of conversations that I'm having with them because I'm like, who is your ideal client? A woman I worked with the other week, her ideal client are healthcare executives and she coaches them how to be on camera. Okay. Love it. There is literally a job out there for everyone. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm like, do I know about healthcare executives? Not really. But I can have a, I know people who are in healthcare, I can have a sense that they're probably going to be like a little more buttoned up. So she said that she was drawn to my work because it's a little, I don't know, it's just like a little bit more fun and funky and like very empowering and feminine and a little bit out there. So she was like, I really like that. And also I can't take some of those risks, but I don't want it this to just be like a head shot against a great backdrop. So that was like a fun challenge for me. It was helpful that she already like saw the gap. And then that was a fun creative challenge for me to kind of like draw it in and say, okay, I'm going to recommend this location for these reasons. And I think we could go with these colors and outfits for these reasons. And then even when it comes to posing, like, okay, we can try this because it's like, it's going to catch someone's eye because these healthcare executives, no offense, they're all the other photos and all the other potential coaches they're looking at are going to be really, really boring photos. So it's going to be easier for her to stand out in a way that's like, she's professional, but also she's got a personality and like a little bit more like pizzazz, but still within the like constraints of what she was doing. So I think it's just getting clear on who you're trying to communicate to and like, what are they looking for? Because every business owner is number one, the best expert on themselves as a person. And also a great expert on them, like their business and their clients. So I think being able to ask the questions to pull that out is really, really helpful. So then we can again create photos that connect with more of their right ideal clients. And I'm guessing on the flip side of this, like a mistake that maybe some wedding pros are making about their brand photos in a sense that something they're doing that maybe is turning away clients kind of what you said, or maybe it's just not hitting the mark. I'm going to go ahead and take a guess that there may be it's to that if the brand photos are too generic and it's probably something right. They're not showing enough personality. What else have you kind of experienced in that sense? Yeah, I think two generic, I think, or I think also trying to copy somebody else and see another brand or another business owner that they're doing. that you admire, which is amazing. And there is definitely room to draw inspiration from other people, but again, you are the, each person is the only them. So yeah, bring inspiration in if this other person, you know, is always wearing fun colors and you've never worn anything that's not black. Okay, that could be a fun personal challenge to buy or borrow one piece of something or maybe just a little necklace with a little color. And then you take a little another step and see if you like it. And if you don't keep wearing all black, like you can do it. You can do whatever you want to do, but like lean, lean until who you are and who you're serving because that's gonna help you connect with those people. Like you're trying to connect with your people and not another person's people, you know? - And like how do you suggest that clients use their branding photos across all platforms? Like websites, social media, 'cause I think sometimes, I mean, Gabby and I haven't done updated photos for our podcast in like a year. But sometimes I'm like, man, everyone's seen this photo a million times. Also, that's probably just in my head, 'cause like, you know, you look at the same photos. And curious like, is there like a follow-up of like, hey, here's your brand photos. You have suggestions for clients on how to integrate that into their business, to best serve them and they're to gain those potential clients. - I think having, usually people have like something that they know they for sure, like I have to up in my website on my Instagram posts are so updated. So they're usually coming to me because of one specific need that they know they have. But then I think in addition to that, there's just really infinite uses, you know, whether it's like a podcast, you know, icon or a header for an email list or you're speaking somewhere and you need to send in a headshot but you don't want it to be linked in headshot. You want it to be memorable in some way. So I think having that bank of images is super nice. So it's like you have what you know you need and you have what you don't even know yet that you need. And then as far as you think about like, we've been using these same photos. I mean, yes, but also then that's gonna be memorable in some ways and also probably no one is saying it's close attention to us as we are getting to ourselves. And I think additionally along with that, like a lot of times when I'm working with people, we're doing like a half-day or a full day. So we are getting a wide variety of different outfits for that goal of like, no, I'm not gonna take every photo of you in the same shirt because then every photo of you is gonna be in the exact same shirt. So even if you maybe are doing a shorter session, I think there's still room to like switch it up a little bit in some way or maybe it is time to update photos, I don't know. I think there's like a lot of different ways to do it. But I think ultimately having fresh images is just a really easy way to look like more cohesive put together and like have that brand confusion across like all platforms. - Yeah, how often do people, like how often does the same brand hire you for new photos? Or the same clothes? - I would say depending on the company, there's someone come, I mean, there's okay, there's only some that come once a month. Those are usually gonna be a little bit more like products specific or bigger teams. - I would say once a quarter, semi-common twice a year or at very minimum once a year is probably the most common just because once your photos are two, maybe three years old, like that is old, you've changed, your businesses changed, things have evolved. And I think it's partially about like yes, you do wanna look like your photos. I think we've all met with someone online. And you know, you've come across a workout online and then you meet them in person and it's a jump scare. Like that's not serving a client as well. Oh my word, I would have literally never recognized you. Like that's not a good person person. Because I mean, okay, that happened to me recently. In her defense, we were meeting to tackle updated brand photos. So she knew she had a need. But I mean, I think that created a sense of like, I almost didn't trust her because she looked so different than how she was having herself online. It was cat-fishing. - That. - This is not you. How am I supposed to trust if you came and show me literally what you look like? How am I supposed to believe you and like, invest in your services? Like I can't because I don't think you're trustworthy. So I think there's a lot of layers to it. But yeah, I mean, I would say it from most business owners, like I'm minimum of once a year and it gets good to just get a little refresh. - That's a good point. I wouldn't even have thought of that. But I have seen that happen so often where, like they're linked in photo or they're profile, the little photo up on Instagram is something from a really long time ago. Even just changing your hair color. Like that simple, it really changes who you are. But I didn't even think about it on a trust level, but that is very, that is legit because your clients, you don't want them to be surprised if you are completely different. - Yeah, totally. - Yeah, I was even thinking how I have some older photos where, I don't feel like I look that different, but my hair is really short. And I'm like, that's such a good point about the trust level because in our minds, we're not trying to deceive anybody, but you're thinking it's like you don't look that different when reality, you're like, oh, I've changed a lot over the years. So I feel like that's a really great point for people to get their photos updated. - Yeah, and I think a lot of times people, I was actually at a long call with the friend who owns businesses this morning, and we were talking about people's hesitation to get in front of the camera, whether that's investing in a brand video and photo shoot, or even just, we were talking about earlier, talking to the camera. And I think a lot of times, especially, I've noticed women business owners are trying to hide, and they don't want to become visible. And I think that's not only a disservice to yourself, but I think it's really honestly a disservice to any of your potential clients, because if you don't believe in what you're doing enough to literally just show up in the actual self, then you're connecting with those people, so you're serving less people, and if you believe what you do is meaningful and creating an incredible experience, then you're providing a disservice to all those people that you can't serve because you're hiding. - And it's actually very, I always feel very empowered on a brand shoot, because I only do them every few years, I hire a hair and makeup person. I get a curated wardrobe from newly or something to make sure that it's like brand colors are represented, or it's like my best self is represented, even though on the day to day, I may be wearing a t-shirt and no makeup, but yeah, I find them to be very empowering, and the right photographer will make you feel that way on your shoot, you know? And there's words of encouragement that are happening, and they'll show you the back of the camera, like, oh my god, look at this one, this is so good. And I think that really, really helps make you feel easy. Maybe there's music, maybe a bottle of champagne, if that's what you need, but yeah, I really have always, always enjoyed it. And Carrie, you and I, like when we've done our shoots, we've laughed the whole time, and it's hysterical, and we have a great, great time doing it, but yes, I do find them very empowering. - Yeah, I agree. - Okay, switching gears a little bit, because this is what we, well, if you catch the YouTube version of this podcast, you all see that we had a little bit of technical issues, and so Micah and I chatted a little bit about this already, but I think we need to talk about this a more, 'cause there's so many questions that I have. But something very interesting about you Micah, is that you have a full-on, remote, international team. Like we're talking overseas, you have met them in person, which is something I want to talk about. But tell us more about how your team is structured, and what the day-to-day communication is with them, because there's a huge time difference too, and just like tell us everything about this overseas team. - Yes, yes. I love my team. All of my current team members are based in the Philippines, and I have had a wonderful, wonderful experience. I've learned a lot, and I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. So I've had my first person, and I hired about three and a half years ago. And at first, it was a 10 hours a week assistant. Sorry, my first overseas person was, yeah, 10 hours a week assistant. Very quickly grew to 20, and then relatively quickly, I moved to full-time. So fast forward a couple of years, so she's really my right-hand person. She does emails, contracts, invoices, website updates. Every kind of all of the admin type of thing, and really keeps the business moving forward on the day-to-day basis. Then I have a part-time marketing person, and she's been with me for almost a year. That role, I probably had realistically the hardest time. I've had the most hires and fires within that role. And I think what I've learned through that is setting a very, very clear expectations in the job description about what you want, what you're looking for, then in the interview process. So my current version of what I do is I have, a Google form, people fill out. And on that, I asked them to record a one to two-minute video saying who they are and why they would be a great addition to the team. So, hey, anyone who's mass-applying doesn't do it, don't even waste my time. Second of all, if I'm bored by their video, why would I want to work with them? Or if their video was all about them, not with their bringing to the table, again, easy-know. So then that really, really helps. Because I had been on a handful of interviews, where I'm like, there was at least one or two where I stopped it part way. And I said, I honestly don't know. We're doing here some in this interview now. Because it was just so good. I'm like, I'm done wasting my time in this regard. So that, I mean, I wasn't learning less than for me, because I'm like, how did they get to that point if they were so clearly not aligned? That's, I cannot blame somebody else. I need to take responsibility and figure out what I'm going to do differently. And then now I have that process that we do, we never done, we do a short interview. Then this is key, a small paid test project, I think is absolutely essential. And give the amount of-- detail that you would realistically want to do. So yeah, you have to be clear and you have to give them the right resources on what you want them to do and how you want them to do it. But also, if you don't want to hold someone's hand like every single second of every single day, there needs to be like a little like enough information to succeed, but they all like if you want someone who's gonna like engage some critical thinking and problem-solving, there needs to be opportunity for them to showcase that in their paid test project and then we'll follow up with another interview for the top candidates. And that now involves some other people on my team, but if you're just by yourself, ask a business owner friend or literally just a friend to sit there with you and get another perspective or record the transcript and put it into cloud and ask for analysis, like that kind of thing. There's so many tools and resources now. I don't think there's, yeah, there's no reason to make these poor hires that I had done over the years. So I think, and then the other way that I've definitely improved over the years is the beginning and really making sure it's very clear communication, very clear training and very clear regular feedback. So I give feedback like probably every single day. Like, all right, these are the things. Awesome, awesome, awesome, love this, thank you. Amazing. This is not what I meant here. Could you please do this? Actually, I don't like this. Whatever it is because if you're not providing feet, so that's another area that I have definitely failed in in the past is just kind of like assuming that someone's doing what they said. Yeah. No. Yeah. That made you sort of like find people internationally. Because obviously there's like a time difference and things like that. So I feel like that would be hard for me to navigate instead of like finding someone locally who like maybe you could meet up with in person. And like what was sort of your decision making on that? Yeah, I think there's so many options. So what works for me may not work for somebody else. I tried to the first time because I had a friend who had a note via an affiliate being a J.O.D. Great experience. I'm like, all right, let me try it out. And as far as the time difference, yeah, it is a very significant time difference. But I think again, that just comes down to communicating. So even of five people who work with me in the Philippines, and they honestly all work slightly different hours, which I don't know if I would recommend, but I also don't know if I have a problem with that. So some of them work their day time, some of them work my day time, some of them fluctuate in between. So I think again, that just comes down to like communication and expectations and figuring out what you actually want. So if you want someone to work nine to five with you, then like your US time, then put that in the JavaScript. And say, hey, this is not a good school. Okay, there's someone who's gonna do it. So I think just setting very clear expectations is super helpful. And then I think on the logistical front, the US dollar definitely goes further in the Philippines. So that has allowed me to hire like a faster rate for like the size of my companies, which has been really exciting. And then also, you know, provide job opportunities for five people instead of, I don't know, what they would have been here, but less than five. So yeah, I mean, self-meaning out for everyone. And there is a lot of managing communication back and forth. So I don't know, I would say start small and just see what you think. But I think the more that you can be very clear on expectations and communication that have your everyone's gonna be. Yeah, it's been so interesting. I have one, I have a VA who is in the Philippines. And I've had her for, gosh, maybe not quite two years, but get in there. And I think you're right, Micah, that what I have not done well enough is the immediate and constant feedback on every little thing. And I really think kind of what we were talking about earlier is the time it takes to delegate a task is very overwhelming to someone who is like a planner, who we have been so used to taking on a lot of it ourselves and doing it ourselves. And we know it so well that we're like, I'm just gonna do it myself, it'll take two minutes, it'll be done. But all of these little two minutes throughout the day add up to like three hours that I could have been doing higher ticket tasks like finding new clients, getting on preferred vendor list, doing site tours, whatever our actual client work. And so I am really, like this conversation is just so, it's just reinforcing for me that I, I love my girl. She's really, when she does the job well, she does it really well. And I'll be frank, it is a quarter of the price it would be for me to then hiring someone in the US. And I'm saying don't support the local economy, but like you said, Micah, we can, I can afford as a small business, I can afford to get more people to help and then grow from there. And then of course, my lead planners are gonna be US, you know, lead planners, but I can't afford to have a $45 an hour admin person here in the US, you know? And so it's really this kind of divide, but giving her more feedback and being clearer, it's not like we're being mean about it. We're just, we have to set those expectations, we have to really have clear boundaries. And I also understand that I've always told her, I said if you find a better way to do it, I'm open to hearing about that because they're in it, they're gonna be in these tasks all day. So she might have a tool or she might find a better way to do something that I'm like, that's brilliant, I didn't even think about that. Let's do it your way. - Yeah, and I think along with that thinking about, I mean, right now I'm with my, my person who's been with me the longest, turn our kind of doing like a two-part annual review. So we did like the first part last week and then the rest of it later this week. And we've been having conversations where we were like, okay, what she's doing now is completely different than when she started with me three years ago. And I told her, and what you'll be doing in a year will be completely different than what you're doing today. In fact, if you're doing the same thing today and a year, that means you probably don't have a future here because if you're not continuously like working yourself out of a job and finding new ways to do something like to serve our clients better, more strategically faster, like utilizing AI to the max. Like I'm very, very obsessed with AI. I find it very life and business changing. And because of that, the people on my team are required to spend depending on if they're part time or full time. Multiple hours a week of time that I'm paying them to learn AI from a fast-signed paid. So like I am investing very heavily in my team. - I love this. - Could they quit at any time? Yeah, they could. But yeah, I hope they don't. And if they do, they're gonna be smarter than when they started. - Yeah. - So like just thinking about these things and really like investing, like I think about a lot, okay, what would I want? Like if I was in their shoes, what would make this a fun and interesting job? Oh, probably they continue to learn more skills. So then they can do more and advocate for a raise later. Great, would love it. Or whenever they're ready to do something else, have a better resume for whatever is next for them. So to me, it's not about like get these tasks done and check it off a list and do it just for me. It's like how can we come together and work as a team? And then also getting to know each person and how are they motivated. Like one person is very motivated by like a quarterly bonus structure that we have going on. One person is like, don't care. I just wanna raise once a year. That's great, you know? So just kind of getting to know people and what they care about has been hard and worth it. - I feel like you talking about like you investing in your team is really helpful. And I assume for you, like making sure everyone's sort of on the same page to like keep that cohesiveness, right? Whether it's like your brand story or just like how you're communicating with clients, how do you approach that to make sure like one assistant isn't speaking a different language in terms of like your brand identity? - Yeah, so they all have very specific roles. Like we really try to have pretty little crossover in between different projects. But then again, since we're leaning into AI, so heavily like I have, you know, a brand story cloud project. So it's like that is like the source of truth. That's where I'm putting in like every podcast transcript in there so they're getting stories. They know like what's the update and content so they should be able to pretty easily create content that sounds exactly like me because it's filled with like, I don't even know how many hours of me laughing about random things. So it's like, it's gonna sound like me if they're prompting well. And then as far as kind of like team cohesion, we do a weekly call with the whole team. And then I do one-on-ones. So right now our structure is we do a 30 minute full team call followed by 15 minute one-on-ones. We did longer ones before, but this is nice right now. And then we'll add in kind of like a one-hour check-in as needed. But it's like enough to kind of touch base, but not be like, like ideally there's not that much to say because we use Google chat, so we're messaging throughout to kind of stay focused. And then the biggest investment I made is I flew my entire team to an island on the Philippines in back in January. Oh, I knew you flew them there. I knew you flew there, but I knew it's all went somewhere. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, picked and I like, well actually it was really fun. Even from the beginning, I kind of like mentioned it to one person and she was into it. So then I kind of floated it by the team. So we essentially planned it together, I asked them, okay, what would make this a win for you? Okay, so we like worked together. We found the island that collectively everyone wanted. Like got a sense of, I know definitely some of the people are very introverted and obviously they've never met me or anyone else, so it could be very intimidating. So like I planned very intentionally knowing each person, what were their goals? And really the top goal for me was to build this like team cohesion because again, I'm like, if people are gonna stay even one year longer than they would have because they feel connected with me and each other, that's a huge win business wise. And also obviously the goals that they're like, care more and are gonna be a little bit more invested. So yes, of course there was like a business agenda in that regard, but we did, I think we did like an hour and a half of goal setting and chit-chatting and we talked about like atomic habits and things like that. But most of the time was like, we went on a private boat ride and went out for dinners and they, like did some activities by themselves without me. And it was super fun. And I also like paired people up in rooms based on like how I thought they would vibe. And also again, like all these communications with them. So it was a really, really fun special time. And also just like obviously a huge energy and financial investment. And I feel like that was a really, I feel very happy with how that went down. And I definitely hope to do that again. - Freakin' amazing, Micah. And I am so impressed with how you have, I know you've said you've learned a lot about, you've made some mistakes and you've had some fires and hires, but you are doing such a good job at putting together like the organization of the tasks and what everyone used to do from the job description to the feedback and all that kind of stuff. But you're also really, really thinking about your team culture and creating that bond. And I think that's really hard to do, especially with an international team. So that's amazing. I feel like if you don't already, you should be educating on this specifically. Like this is, I don't know many people who talk about this. Excuse me. And I just find this really, really incredible. - Yeah. - Really nice. I feel like people that I'm not made a hire for them. And I'm like, that's a hard no. - Yeah. - That's tough. - Yeah, that's a lot. - No, that's so tough. - Micah, this has been such a good conversation. I guess like two part questions. Since I know we talked about two different topics, but do you have a piece of advice on, let's start with hiring a team. Like what would be, like if someone is like, I know I'm ready to scale, but they're afraid to dive into that. What would be like your biggest piece of advice on scaling a team? - I would say start small. Start with someone literally five hours a week. Think of just a couple quick things that you could explain. You could record a limb video and say, hey, this is what I want done. And just start there. Do it for a month or two. Maybe even tell the person, hey, I don't know if I want to do this for sure, but would you be willing to try it out? That could be someone local, could be someone overseas, whatever you want. And just see if you like it and see what you learn and continue from there. It doesn't need to be starting with like multiple full-time people. So yeah, I would say start small. - Like dip your toe in the water a little bit. And get it wet. - Because I will say like, okay, as someone who has done this, and again, I just have this one person, I have, I was not sure I have two, I have a video editor for YouTube, but the financial investment is small. Like you pay their website, platforms that you can pay a monthly membership to have access to post your link. And I'm sure Micah, you have a bunch of other tools too, but the one I use was like $60 for the month. And you can post as many job postings as you want for all sorts of different roles. And you can take the full 30 days to interview people, go back and forth, do the sample project, and then you can cancel your membership and work with the people you have. And like you said, five hours a week, and the hourly rates are less than in the US, depending on what you're looking for. And so the financial investment, it's a very low risk in my opinion. And then if you do a trial period with this person it lasts six months, but then all of a sudden, it's really not working out, then you can re-subscribe to the website and put another reactivate your post, right? And then just see who else comes in. Like I found it to be very low risk in that sense. - I agree. - And then final question, Micah, in terms of brand photography, what is a good piece of advice for people who, like Gabby said, some pros are afraid of showing up or updating their photos and being in front of the camera. And I think we all know you have to show up to keep your business afloat and showing your face on photo, video, online. So what would you say to encourage someone in that realm? - Yeah. I would say I firmly believe the world is a better place when money is in the hands of more women. And that's only gonna be possible when women and business owners are visible. And so if you wanna be visible, you have to show up. So ultimately, I think it's really an invitation to not only like step into who you are and what you offer, but an invitation to really serve the people that you say you care about and say you want to serve. Okay, then meet more of them and do it. So I think when you think about it that way then it feels a little bit less about like yourself and a photo or video of yourself and more of like an invitation to get visible and connect with more amazing clients. - And I think like you said earlier, like I think working with someone like you who is like this is their specialty, like Gabby was saying like I leave feeling like empowered and like just like really good about your business. And I think that's also key, right? Like don't just go hire someone who's a photographer and like they don't really know brand photos 'cause I think you can help make that session such a key part of like kind of boosting self-esteem and confidence in their business. - Absolutely. - This was so good, Micah. Thank you so much and thanks for being patient with us with the tech issues. I think the YouTubers are gonna have a blast watching the behind the scenes on this one. - I pop in and out a couple of times. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay Micah, we're gonna link everything but in the show notes, but where can people find you what's the best way to connect with you? - Yeah, I'm on Instagram, MicahBane, photo, YCAH. And yeah, we'd love to send me a DM, tell me what you thought and I'm here to bounce around ideas and support you on your journey. - I love it. I always love watching your stories. They're very, very entertaining. So I highly recommend everyone subscribed to Micah's. - Thank you. - And now we know you're gardening. So we need to obviously see the garden progression. - Yes, yes. - Love it. Well, thank you, Jabber's for being here. We will be back next week with another episode and we will see you then. Bye. (upbeat music) - That's a wrap on today's episode of Just Another Biz Podcast. If you want more support, more real talk and more of this community, come join us on Substack. We're chatting there every week and you can get a monthly bonus episode if you become a paid member and help support our work. Don't forget to make sure you're subscribed to the pod so you don't miss an episode. Share this with a wedding vendor friend and we'll see you back here next week. Bye. - Bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)