Ep. #732: Vice President Mike Pence, Sen. Chris Murphy, Amb. Susan Rice

there is so much nfl on espn right now monday night football plus pre-game and post-game nfl live nfl prime time everything you need to stay on top of every game every week unbelievable and now nfl network is on the espn app more football more coverage more ways to watch football's on all season long on espn and streaming on the espn app welcome to an hbo podcast from the hbo late night series real time with bill maher thank you so much all right thank you all right you are a hot crowd thank you people i appreciate that okay i know i know thank you i love you too you specifically okay okay i know i i know why la is excited today because the world cup is coming here next week oh my gosh this is soccer right i no i don't know anything about soccer everybody's so excited all i know about this is that it's soccer and a lot of countries come and it takes a long time uh apparently to play these games oh in 39 days we will know the winner oh no that's the mayor of la i'm sorry oh yeah we uh oh california what a fucked up state this is but but apparently the two finalists are going to be karen bass the mayor and spencer pratt the reality star oh look at that so they are going to be in a runoff i gave the edge to karen bascus who knows more about running off and uh spencer oh boy i had him on my podcast he's it's like a jason statham movie with this guy it's like you burned down my house now i'm coming for you and he's very oh quality of life issues very concerned about the homeless who he always calls naked homeless drug addicts and they don't like that term they prefer former child actors we also had the primary for governor here the leading candidate xavier becerra he he it's the exact kind of enthusiasm that he no he won because uh he's the closest name on the ballot to fuck ice also you know who was on the ballot eric swalwell was still on the ballot and got 19 000 votes uh who are these people people who opened a dick pic and liked it oh yeah democrats they have another sex creep problem have you seen this guy graham plattner up in maine he's this is their big hope to take the senate the democrats but graham plattner he's a lot you know he's got a nazi tattoo we don't know about that maybe it was just drunk he didn't know it was whatever but a lot of stuff now stuff about him you know he definitely was sexting other women outside of his marriage now some of the girlfriends are coming for it one of them says he used to uh watch tv while he was sharpening his axe could cost him women and their vote but he did win over stephen king you know it's it's maine it's a small state you gotta it's maine it's a small state you gotta so apparently graham plattner that one of the girlfriends said one of his fantasies was how heroic he would be if there was a home invader problem is how he wanted to be heroic with the home invader which was by raping him i'm just i'm just reporting people i'm just but he but he's not in a gay way he emphasized that not in a gay way just in a regular this is what happens to a guy who busts into my house way well you know well you know well you know that's politics okay i mean that's politics okay i mean that's politics okay i mean say what you want it's not soft on crime say what you want it's not soft on crime say what you want it's not soft on crime i i would say that this doesn't anybody i i would say that this doesn't anybody i i would say that this doesn't anybody want to win a race want to win a race want to win a race both parties i mean you know this week both parties i mean you know this week both parties i mean you know this week joe biden is going to win the race joe biden is going to win the race joe biden is going to win the race joe biden have you seen that she needs joe biden have you seen that she needs joe biden have you seen that she needs to have a book out to have a book out to have a book out jill biden she went on said she thought jill biden she went on said she thought jill biden she went on said she thought joe was having a stroke during the joe was having a stroke during the joe was having a stroke during the debate debate debate didn't mention at the time went on the view and admitted she went on the view and admitted she went on the view and admitted she thought no thought no thought no joe couldn't have served another term joe couldn't have served another term joe couldn't have served another term they they said really she said no not they they said really she said no not from what i know now who knew from what i know now who knew from what i know now who knew yes other than everyone no one doesn't anyone want to win i mean doesn't anyone want to win i mean doesn't anyone want to win i mean the other side trump keeps pissing off the other side trump keeps pissing off the other side trump keeps pissing off people so badly even the republicans are people so badly even the republicans are people so badly even the republicans are standing up to him now they figure hey it worked for the they figure hey it worked for the they figure hey it worked for the iranians well you know i can always tell when the president is i can always tell when the president is i can always tell when the president is in a bad mood because he starts in a bad mood because he starts in a bad mood because he starts tweeting about me i i feel it's an honor always to be in i i feel it's an honor always to be in i i feel it's an honor always to be in his tweets even when they're bad and his tweets even when they're bad and his tweets even when they're bad and they're always bad they're always bad they're always bad this week he said i was low ratings this week he said i was low ratings this week he said i was low ratings bill maher with his fake laughing machine first of all low ratings yours is 35 first of all low ratings yours is 35 first of all low ratings yours is 35 percent and fake fake fake fake laughing machine fake laughing machine fake laughing machine fake laughing machine can we get a shot of our audience there that should settle that there that should settle that there that should settle that well i know he's in a foul mood did you well i know he's in a foul mood did you well i know he's in a foul mood did you see the phone call he had with see the phone call he had with see the phone call he had with prime minister netanyahu of israel wow prime minister netanyahu of israel wow prime minister netanyahu of israel wow the language you didn't even denounce the language you didn't even denounce the language you didn't even denounce lied he said to not to you're crazy lied he said to not to you're crazy lied he said to not to you're crazy you'd be in prison if it wasn't for you you'd be in prison if it wasn't for you you'd be in prison if it wasn't for you i'm saving your ass and everybody hates i'm saving your ass and everybody hates i'm saving your ass and everybody hates you you you and your laughing machine is fake and your laughing machine is fake and your laughing machine is fake he said all that but hey hey it's uh let's not forget it is the hey it's uh let's not forget it is the hey it's uh let's not forget it is the beginning of pride month or uh as as beginning of pride month or uh as as beginning of pride month or uh as as uh lindsey graham called uh lindsey graham called uh lindsey graham called calls it why is everybody looking at me calls it why is everybody looking at me calls it why is everybody looking at me mom mom mom but uh you know look i gotta say but uh you know look i gotta say but uh you know look i gotta say usually pride month is just fun but usually pride month is just fun but usually pride month is just fun but there is news this year this is serious there is news this year this is serious there is news this year this is serious there is disturbing polling that the there is disturbing polling that the there is disturbing polling that the acceptance of gay people in this country acceptance of gay people in this country acceptance of gay people in this country on all levels is regressing among on all levels is regressing among on all levels is regressing among republicans one of their congress republicans one of their congress republicans one of their congress people andy ogles people andy ogles people andy ogles how's that perfect for the name how's that perfect for the name how's that perfect for the name said homosexuality has no place in said homosexuality has no place in said homosexuality has no place in america then he america then he america then he took down the tweet and blamed it on a took down the tweet and blamed it on a took down the tweet and blamed it on a staffer like real men do staffer like real men do staffer like real men do but but but this is a this is a this is a serious thing that is going on serious thing that is going on serious thing that is going on acceptance of same-sex marriage is way acceptance of same-sex marriage is way acceptance of same-sex marriage is way down among republicans oh they still down among republicans oh they still down among republicans oh they still want the gay sex part just not the want the gay sex part just not the want the gay sex part just not the marriage part marriage part marriage part all right we got a great show former all right we got a great show former all right we got a great show former ambassador susan rice and senator chris ambassador susan rice and senator chris ambassador susan rice and senator chris murphy are here but first up murphy are here but first up murphy are here but first up okay he was the 48th vice president of okay he was the 48th vice president of okay he was the 48th vice president of the united states his new book is called the united states his new book is called the united states his new book is called what conservatives believe rediscovering what conservatives believe rediscovering what conservatives believe rediscovering the conservative conscious how about it the conservative conscious how about it the conservative conscious how about it for vice president mike pence a nice applause and a standing ovation a nice applause and a standing ovation a nice applause and a standing ovation here here here among the left-wing lunatics see we have the nicest crowd in in in see we have the nicest crowd in in in see we have the nicest crowd in in in any in all of them thank you very much any in all of them thank you very much any in all of them thank you very much yeah because uh They're willing to listen to anybody, and so am I. And I'm sure lots of people said to you, why are you going on that crazy atheist show? Yeah. More than a few. More than a few. But that's why I so appreciate you being here. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad you're here because I think, you know, we can say to each other we don't agree on a lot of stuff, but I know there are ways you've said to my staff, Israel and stuff, you think I'm not all bad. Anybody who did what you did on January 6th, can't be all bad. I'm going to put that out there. We did the right thing. Thank you. And I think we have a lot in common. Like we both know, it's kind of hard to stay friends with Donald Trump. Well. Are you ever in contact with him these days? Well, you know, it's been a while since we spoke. You never just met? I think you've actually spent more time with him recently than I have. But, no, I love how you started the show, and I really want to commend you for the way you carry yourself. I really see you as a, you're an honest broker. I try to be. You speak your mind. It's hard. I admire that. I really do. You know, I've always said, you know, I'm a conservative, but I'm not in a bad mood about it. Right. I mean. And you've always struck me as a liberal that's not in a bad mood either. No, no, no. I want to talk to everybody. My little line is, everybody's a monster until you talk to them. Yeah. Just talk to them a little bit. Yeah. And. I really do believe that's a key to our country right now. In fact, I don't know if I mentioned that I just wrote a book. I'm just about to bring it up. Just about to bring it up. In the book, I actually, I really believe that democracy depends on heavy doses of civility. And I think the American people long for us to restore a threshold of civility. Yeah. And I write about that. No, I mean, the book and your column today in the Washington Post, the theme is that we are at a crossroads in America. I mean, you are a traditional old school Republican conservative, and you see this country having moved to a different place. Populism, you put in contrast to traditional conservatism. Now, when you say populism, we all think, and rightly so, that means Donald Trump. So you're saying we've gone off track, and you're basically saying the person who took us off track is Donald Trump. Do I have that right? Well, I don't think entirely, Bill, in all fairness. Look, for the last five decades, the Republican Party, you might be surprised to learn I was a young Democrat. I am. When I joined the Republican Party. What? When Ronald Reagan came to the White House. You were a Democrat. I was a young Democrat. Wow. I listened to Ronald Reagan. I heard about the ideals of a strong defense, of limited government, traditional values. And I joined the Reagan Revolution. For 50 years, the Republican Party has been defined by those conservative principles. We principally did political combat with the liberal Democratic Party. But as you will concede, the Democratic Party itself has slid farther to the left, the progressive left, even embracing socialism, lifting up. Believe me, I have the battle scars for pointing it out. Well, and look, I want to give you a thanks to that. I mean, the progressives on the far left are questioning our support for traditional allies, even Israel, our most cherished ally. But what I wrote the book about is that in addition to the context with the ever more left-wing, radical Democratic Party, now in America, conservatives deserve to know that I think there is a new. a new threat to our movement from the populist right that would question our role as leader of the free world, that would embrace big government solutions, including broad-based tariffs, price controls, nationalizing American businesses. I heard about Elizabeth Warren when the Trump administration announced they were nationalizing American businesses. Elizabeth Warren said, I think Donald Trump came across an idea that I came up with years ago. And actually, Bill, that. nationalizing private enterprise is an idea that Karl Marx came up with years ago. Right, yes. But that and marginalizing traditional values like the right to life, I just want people to know that while the Trump administration has gotten a lot right, secured the border, extended tax cuts. And by the way, I've said that to him. Yeah. On the show. He just. You have to agree with him 100% or he hates you. You know, it's just. Then you're just part of the. I agree. I agree. And there is such a thing as Trump derangement syndrome. You know, people who just hate everything. He could cure cancer tomorrow. And there were people who would hate it just because he did it. I agree the border needed to be fixed. You know, I see him. The tax cuts were extended. And look. Well, I don't know about that one. In the wake of October 7th, the way candidate Trump and President Trump have stood without apology for Israel and finally been the first president. The first president in history to take the fight directly to Iran last year and this year. And he. He's to be commended. I know. And I have commended him. The problem is that he does other things that are not good. And I will not stop talking about those. Doge. ICE. The corruption. The revenge path that he's on. Not conceding elections. These are just the top five. I mean. I feel like. So, I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. And I feel like the Democrats finally have an issue with this corruption. I mean, there's a senator, John Ossoff, in the Democratic Party, who said that today's Republicans, apropos to your thing about populism, he says, they are the elites they pretend to hate. You agree with that? Well, I do think that this populist right that's coming up within our movement really questions the foundations of. conservatism in America. It's why I wrote the book, What Conservatives Believe. Because I really want to begin a conversation about the future of our movement. Look, we're going to have a new standard bearer in 2028. Well. Candidates coming up in 2026. You know. But I tell people it's going to be more important for the people in our party to talk about what we're for before we talk about who we're for. And I want the Republican Party to stay grounded in those traditional values. Okay, well. Right. But how about beginning with saying to the guy who keeps saying, there are ways you could do it, and I'm talking about Donald Trump, because that's what he says. Yeah. He does not. It's just insane to me to absolutely say, you can't run. It's just plainly in the Constitution. Your book is a lot about what's in the Constitution and following that, and there's nothing more plainer than you get two terms, not three. Right. Okay, so. I mean, it seems like we could. Some of the things we could come to some agreement with the middle, like January 6th. Like, Trump pardoned everybody. Could we say that, yes, some people were there just for reasons of who knows. They weren't exactly tourists, but they weren't having horrible intent. Other people? Can we say some bad people were there? Like the ones who wanted to hang you? Can we say those were bad people? Well, Bill, you know, I made a. I had no problem with the president pardoning people who got caught up in that day, but for anyone who assaulted a police officer, anybody that violated and vandalized the seat of our government and sought to disrupt the counting of electoral college votes, those people never should have been pardoned, and they should never get a dime. So. No ill feelings about the hanging thing. You know. I get, you know. Did you ever fear for your life? Did you actually fear that that could happen? Well, to be honest with you, I never felt a greater sense of resolve any day of my life than on January 6th. You know, I've often told my kids the safest place in the world is to be in the center of God's will. And I really knew I was where I was supposed to be doing what I was supposed to be doing. You know, under the Constitution, the vice president's role is only to preside over a session of Congress where the electoral college votes are opened and counted. That's it. And no vice president in history had ever asserted any authority to decide what votes to count or send back to the states. And so I knew my duty was clear, and I'll always believe by God's grace I did my duty. And you're. And I know. You know, as a person of faith, because I know a lot of people of faith, they say they know if they. They think if they die, they'll be in a better place. So maybe if they hung you, good thing. I'm kidding. Last issue. Abortion. Now, this is one we'll never quite agree on. Yeah. But I get it. I get your side of it. You know, I always have. Some people don't like that about me. I'm pro-choice, but I understand. It is. BECOMING A LIFE, AND WE'RE JUST just killing it before it can fight back. I'm just okay with that. Now we find out, even after Roe versus Wade was overturned, abortion has increased in these, I guess, across the country, because they don't do it by having to go to a clinic. You get a pill over the mail. Should we outlaw these pills? Is that where you are in this issue? Well, I really believe it's one example where we've seen the Trump administration depart from that conservative agenda. I mean, I couldn't be more proud that our administration appointed three of the justices that sent Roe versus Wade to the ash heap of history where it belongs. But since that time, as you said, Bill, abortion after the Biden administration essentially approved mail order abortion, no doctor supervision, with a drug that's actually done great harm to many women around the country, as well as claimed unborn lives. It's been a disappointment to me and other pro-lifers. This administration has turned a blind eye to that issue entirely. In fact, appointing an abortion rights supporter to lead the Health and Human Services Department. So it was part of the impetus for me writing what conservatives believe, because I really do believe that at the end of the day, the Republican Party ought to offer a choice, not an echo. Look, I never begrudge anybody, you included, of having liberal views. It's what America's all about. You can believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe. And as long as we conduct each other with the golden rule, we'll find our way forward as a country. I feel like you are the standard for me. Because I, like of all the people, if I could challenge myself and be friendly with, you are probably as far on the other side as me. And I hope we can keep that up. I want you to do Club Random, my podcast, and get super high with me. Would you do that? Yes, we'll just kick it. I'll do the podcast. You'll think about it. All right. Thank you. Mike Pence, everybody. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. And good luck with the book. All right, let's read our panel. I'm friends with everybody. All right. He is a Democratic senator from Connecticut and author of the book Crisis of the Common Good, the Fight for Meaning and Connection in a Broken America. Senator. Senator Chris Murphy. And she served under three presidents, including as U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., National Security Advisor, and Director of the Domestic Policy Council, Ambassador Susan Rice. Thank you for being with us. Okay. Now let's hear from the Democratic side. Now, we're a couple of weeks away, three weeks away from our 250th anniversary. I don't know if you're getting all the emails. I'm getting emails from people in the media asking your comments. And what do you think is the most? I am. I bet you people like you are. What is your big takeaway they want? What made America work? My answer is balance. That was the genius of the Constitution, three branches of government that kept each one in check. That was what was new. That's what we've lost, I feel. Now the headlines this week are all about the Republicans are maybe going to restore that. I've heard this before, but we do hear rumblings. From lots of Republicans in ways we haven't before. Last week, it was all about the slush fund. And we heard people saying stupid. I'm talking about using stupid. Trump is being stupid. And it's a slush fund in words. This week, it's about Bill Pulte, who he tried to, or he didn't try. He is the Director of National Intelligence now. John Thune says we don't need a weaponized DNI. What's going on here? Is this real, this time? Is it that they smell blood, that Trump is going? I don't think it's real. I mean, I just watched in the last 24 hours, after they made a whole bunch of noise about this slush fund, they said they weren't going to give him his number one priority, this immigration bill that he wanted, if he didn't do away with the slush fund. And he's said openly that he's still thinking about it. They had an opportunity last night in the Senate to adopt an amendment that would have made him a slush fund. They made it completely illegal. Only a handful of Republicans voted for it. I think there's only one rule in the Republican Party, and it still holds. He gets anything that he wants. It's true, they're starting to make more noise right now as they get closer to the election. And I think that they think that that will have some electoral benefit, making more noise. But until they actually start voting against him, voting to end this war, voting to tie his hands so that he can't set up personal political slush funds, I just don't know that for our democracy, the noise matters that much. They apparently did have some big screaming match with each other last week. Yeah, and then what happened last night? They delivered him the votes to pass his immigration bill without any amendment that would stop the slush fund from going forward. Listen, I'm with you. I'm rooting for them to break from him. I just haven't seen it yet. I'd like to see balance restored. Yes. I think that one interesting test of that. I think that one interesting test of that will be how the Republicans respond to Bill Pulte, because he is now going to be the acting director of national intelligence. Here is somebody that has literally no national security and no intelligence experience. The statute says that's required by law in the DNI. He has never had a security clearance. He's never touched classified material. Who is he? He's a housing financier and a. The scion of a. Was he even that? Fancy business family, and then he went to the FHFA and has apparently used that perch as a way to operationalize the president's efforts to go after some of his adversaries. So I think that kind of character, with the mission that the president has overtly given him, to go in there and, you know, find evidence of rigged. To go in there and, you know, find evidence of rigged elections and to go after people within the intelligence community who are longstanding experts and rid them of the place, that's quite worrying. And I think if we care deeply about our national security, which we must, at a time when we're dealing with Russia and China and Iran and terrorists, we need somebody as director of national intelligence. I do remember when we created that bureaucracy. I do remember when we created that bureaucracy after 9/11, a lot of people on the left said, "What are we doing? Why? Why do we need it?" I remember my joke was, "If only we had some sort of central intelligence agency," which is now one of the 18 agencies under the DNI. It just seemed like another layer of bureaucracy we didn't need. Maybe we don't. Well, no, I do think we do, and it's not perfect, believe me. We've both dealt with the intelligence community and its complexities. But the reason why after 9/11 that concept made sense was what we discovered when we did the look back on 9/11 was it was stovepipes between the FBI and the CIA and other aspects of the intelligence community weren't sharing information that allowed us to— Is the FBI under the DNI? Yes. So they all are? Yes. And it works? Well, it works better than not having a DNI, I think. Right, okay. And listen, Pulte's chief qualification, according to Donald Trump, is that he is going to be willing to go into the intelligence files and pull out information on Trump's political opponents. I mean, that's the only reason this guy got picked, because he did it at the housing agency, and now he's going to do it at Intel. That's the key. That's the key. That's the only reason that Pulte is being nominated for this position. And even if he only stays on the job for a couple weeks, that's enough time for him to go in and fish out information on a whole bunch of people that Trump is trying to destroy. Right, okay. Let me ask another issue. There is something called the Great American State Fair Festival that was planned. Now, this is not the same thing as the UFC event on the White House lawn. Don't get the— Or the race car track going around the city. Yes, but there's lots of exciting stuff in Washington going on. No, the UFC thing—look, we have a redneck president. I'm sorry. We're just going to have to get used to it. From Manhattan. From Manhattan, a redneck from—he just does redneck things. Okay, this is one of the things I don't give a shit about, but this other thing was not planned as a specific Trump thing or a specific MAGA thing, and they had some acts lined up, not the greatest. The Commodores, Morris Day and The Time, they were pretty good. Commodores were good in the day. Very good, very—yes, that's true. That's Lionel Richie, right? Yeah. Okay, well, he's not with them anymore. Right. Okay. Martina McBride, Bret Michaels, Young M.C., C + C Music Factory, Milli Vanilli, I would not have left them out. I think it was just Vanilli. Right, yes, it was just. Right, because the other one was discredited for lip-syncing. Right, right. I think these people. Vanilli's the good one. They all pulled out. This is a question about what looks best for the Democrats, because I don't think that looks good. It looks like you are just what people say about you, you don't really love America. It looks like you think Trump is more important than the country itself. Now it's just a big MAGA rally, this whole thing, because they all pulled out. So now it's just Trump and Lee Greenwood. Wouldn't it have been better to play this gig? It's a month-long gig, lots of people, like, just celebrating America. Can't we all just celebrate America itself and leave Trump out of it? Well, thank you. And listen, like, my kids are excited about the D.C. race, right? Like, I mean, there is stuff. Listen, there's obviously a ton of people love the UFC. There's going to be people that are excited about this. But here's what happened. There was a nonpartisan, apolitical effort to celebrate America's 250th anniversary. And instead of just letting that effort go forward, Donald Trump took it over, right, to create a parallel set of events. My understanding is these artists thought that they were going to the nonpartisan effort, and then when they found out that it was just a predicate to a Trump rally, they didn't want to be part of it. I think this would have been a lot better for the country if Trump had decided to just let professionals, let people who just care about celebrating America with no political agenda be part of this. I agree, there's no reason to overly politicize this, but Trump decided to politicize it by essentially shutting down the citizens who were leading it and turning it into a big MAGA event. What about the bigger issue? The bigger issue of, there is a, it's Pride Month, but a different kind of pride, pride in the country. There's a big pride gap. Like 38% of Americans report feeling proud. That's not a lot. But it's only 18% Democrats, 68% Republicans. Should Democrats feel prouder of this country and show it both really and politically? I mean, you're talking to two people who've served their country for most of their career. So I, I care deeply. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about. I care deeply about our country and I'm very proud of it, but I also think that we're in a difficult spot and we need to do better. This is part of the reason I wrote this book about the common good, because there's actually a lot more agreement out there in America than you think about what's wrong and what needs to be fixed. You know, people want healthier, small towns and neighborhoods. They do think that capitalism has been corrupted. They want the technology regulated to save their kids. You know, we've been fighting on the same issues year after year after year. They're important issues, but they're kind of stuck in political gelatin from guns to climate change. But there is a set of things that makes the economy more fair, that makes the technology less poisonous, that makes your local downtown healthier, that are actually things that unite left and right, an agenda about the common good. And my hope is that we're going to see that this 250th celebration doesn't become just about the differences between Republicans and Democrats, but maybe causes us to realize that there are actually some things that could make us feel better about our lives that have nothing to do with left or right and can bring us together. You also, I notice, have pulled back on the idea of litmus tests. That's kind of a big theme for you now. I mean, you're talking about the gun issue, which, you know, you were more associated with than anybody. And you're saying now that went too far. Yeah, well, I want a big tent for the Democratic Party. And I do think that we have lost a share of vote because we've been really judgmental about people who don't line up with us on all of our litmus test issues. I also think we should be in the business of conversion, like converting people, like trying to convince them that maybe they're wrong about, you know, drag shows being the biggest threat that is presented. And I don't think you ever get to be in a conversation with somebody if you tell them that they can't be a part of your party or they can't get nominated unless they line up with you on A, B, C, D, and E issues. So we don't talk to Trump's base very often. We don't even give ourselves a chance to say, hey, if you think the economy is rigged, just come and listen to us a little bit about our ideas. I want to build a bigger tent party. And I think that in doing that, you might actually have the ability to reach into some of the folks that are sitting there. Solid members of his base and convince them that he's really a populist fraud. He's vulnerable now, don't you think? For that. I would just add that, you know, in the current context, the most important thing I think we need is, you use the term big tent, and I think that's absolutely right. We need a coalition of Americans, of all political persuasions, who in my view believe in three fundamental things. The Constitution, the rule of law, and the animating principle of this country that we're all created equal. Anybody who can subscribe to that, I think, you know, belongs in the biggest possible tent we can create. Is this tent big enough for this Graham Plattner guy? I must say, I don't want to make any judgments because I'm just learning who he is. And unfortunately, so is he. I mean, this is a new kind of guy. And it's not just in the Democrats. People who, like, if you look at their history, you could find things that make them look very conservative. Like a Nazi tattoo. What I would, in the past, have associated with the conservative. And then there's things that, you know, he's also flirted with communism, and now he's got a sex scandal, which in the past has been just something that, absolutely, made somebody toxic in the Democratic Party, unlike in the Republican Party, where they don't, they don't care at all. Um, what about this one? What have you been reading about Mr. Plattner, and what do you think they should do? Because if he wins, they think they're going to get the Senate. So it's a very key seat. Yeah, I mean, this is, this is going to be a complicated race. Um, he, he is imperfect. He's made a lot of mistakes. He's been pretty clear about it from the outset. He's built a pretty big movement in Maine because people like his ideas. On the other side, you've got Susan Collins, who just last night cast one of the deciding votes to give $70 billion to Trump's secret police. That's a character issue as well. So I think you're seeing more candidates run today that don't have perfectly clean personal histories. And the question in Maine is going to be, is he a bridge too far, or are his ideas -- Well, what do you say? You're in the Senate. Well, I think he's the clear, I think he's the clear choice there, um, but -- Do you say Nazi schmaltzy and then texting schmacksting and -- I'm just asking. I'm, I'm, I'm, maybe that's the right answer. Yeah, like I said, I think this is a super complicated race, but I think the choice here is between the incumbent, who has enabled Trump's corruption, and Graham Plattner, very imperfect, but who has fought and put his life on the line for this country, which is not something that's insignificant. No, it's not. And, and I just think it's a different country. It's a broken country. It's full of broken people with bad information on both sides. And I think people just go, he's pissed. I get that. Yeah. And these, and this last set of allegations are serious allegations that he's going to have to talk about with the people of Maine, and they're ultimately going to make that decision, um, but that'll be their decision to make. Okay. Graham Plattner, any thoughts? I remember when a tan suit was a scandal. I do, too. Holding the coffee. Remember that? He had a cup of, cup, a cup of coffee when he saluted, and, uh. It was tea. Tea, whatever it was. Always tea. Always tea. He was holding a cup, and it was, I know. Things have changed a lot. Uh, let's talk about Iran, because I'm never going to get anybody here on this show who knows more about it than you, because you were very instrumental in the original Iran deal. Um, I talked about that, I, I mean, I was supportive of that deal. I, I remember talking about it that horrible night when I had dinner with Voldemort. Voldemort and his castle. I, we did talk about that a lot, about the Iran deal, and I said, you know, I, I thought it was worth a try to bring Iran into the family of nations, because, what, that wasn't that the deal? No. But, go ahead. We weren't trying to bring. Wasn't that the. We were just trying to deal with their nuclear program. But wasn't that the first step? No. So we did never, okay, well, then that's the question. Okay. There was other issues that we said, we're going to put those aside. Because Iran is doing a lot of bad things. The reason why I was supportive of this war, if he hadn't fucked it up, and I think we all agree now it's been fucked up, but, was because I don't think anything in the Middle East is going to get solved until you deal with Iran. And it was not just the nuclear issue, it's the fact that they have been state-sponsored terrorists for years, just, just all of it with Iran is just never very good. Correct. Okay. So, we put that aside for the Iran deal and said we just want to deal with the nuclear. Okay. So, you decoupled those. Yes. Let me explain what we did and why I think it was the right thing and why I think it I think, unfortunately, we're really on the wrong course right now. First of all, Iran, as you said absolutely correctly, poses threats on multiple dimensions. Its missile program, its support for proxies in the region, its human rights violations. But the way it poses a direct threat to Israel, to our allies in the region, to Europe, and potentially to the larger international community is if it were able to acquire a nuclear weapon, or weapons, plural. And so back in 2013, we began to try an effort without using force, but using economic pressure and sanctions that brought Iran to the negotiating table. And after two years of negotiations resulted in a nuclear deal that prevented Iran from building a nuclear weapon. Based on inspections? Based on, not just inspections, based on taking 97, 98% of their fissile material out of the country, shutting down their plutonium reactor, making it impossible for them to put in place the most highly sophisticated centrifuges. And you know they weren't cheating? We know that, we know it for two reasons. Two ways. One, the intelligence community of the United States, and even Israel, validated that up until 2018 when the prior president pulled out. Not Israel. Yes. And secondly, that they were not cheating on the Iran nuclear deal. That's not what. And secondly, the IAEA had, the International Atomic Energy Agency, had 24-7 intrusive inspections in all of Iran's nuclear facilities. So when the United States withdrew from the nuclear deal, the deal was being implemented fully. But even if you don't buy that. Why wasn't Net. If Netanyahu thought they weren't cheating, why was he so adamant to get out of the deal? Because this is the right question. It gets back to your original point. It wasn't just about nuclear. It was about nuclear in the minds of the Israelis. So he was lying when he said. No, not lying. Well, that's what he said to me. He said, we don't agree, we don't believe that they're not cheating. Because we. They're going to get a weapon, and we've got to get it. And when we had a mechanism in place to prevent them from getting it, he urged President Trump to get out of the deal. They got out of the deal. And what happened? Iran built up its arsenal. Now they have 440 kilograms of highly enriched uranium, up enough for 10 bombs. They have a sophisticated missile program. They now control the Strait of Hormuz. And they are tanking the global economy as a consequence. And what have we done? We went to war, and we have not either dealt with the nuclear program, or verifiably dealt with the missile program, or the proxy problem. We've made it worse. It's an F.C. me on every level. I mean, we. The regime change didn't happen. Uprising didn't happen. We didn't get. We didn't get the nukes. We didn't even get their military, really, we find out. And we look weak. Correct. And now we have to go back to the negotiating table, and we're going to go back with a much weaker hand, and end up with a deal that I will be very surprised if it's nearly as good as what we got in 2015. And so, that's why it doesn't make sense. No, it doesn't. And every. Every president has been briefed on the consequences of military action. And every president has been briefed on the consequences of military action, like Trump, like what Trump has taken. And they were all told two things. Right. One, Iran's going to close the Strait Affirmatives. Right. And it's going to shut down the global economy. And two, with an air campaign alone, you are not going to be able to get their nuclear program. You're not going to be able to get all their missiles. You're not going to be able to get all their drones. And so, that's where we're stuck with. We're stuck with the situation in which the Strait is closed down. That was a foreseeable action. And Iran believes that it's taken our best shot and survived, because open reporting says they still have 70%. Of their missiles yet. Still in stock. And so, unfortunately, everybody knew that this was going to be the outcome. And maybe because Netanyahu convinced Trump that there was going to be a quick regime fall and a pro-American, pro-Israeli government taking its place, he bought into that flawed logic. All right. Hypothetical question. Tomorrow, Donald Trump decides he wants to spend more time with his family. And he resigns. J.D. Vance is the president. What would the new policy toward Iran be, and what should it be? We've got a new slate. We've got a new guy who wasn't crazy about it to begin with. What do you think it would be? I mean, that's like speculating about speculating. I mean, who knows? No, it's one. But I have no idea what J.D. Vance. What should it be? If we had a new. What should it be, I can answer. What new slate could we have? Well, what. Here we are now as a result of. Of the decision that President Trump made to go to war with no good options. We've got bad options and worse options. We either escalate the war, which is unlikely to lead to anything better than what we have now, probably much worse, or we get into a negotiation with Iran, if they'll even negotiate with us, from a position of weakness, where they now control the Strait of Hormuz and can dial it up and down, where they have this nuclear material, where they have a greater. incentive to rush to a bomb. And we're starting from, you know, less than square one. But those are the two options. And whether you're J.D. Vance or Donald Trump or anybody else, that's the hand that has been dealt you as a result of this decision-making. I mean, some of this can just be explained by basic incompetence, right? We have incompetent people running this war. And so I don't. I don't think these guys are going to be able to do anything. I don't think these guys can negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I don't think they can negotiate a way to get the Strait open. So my feeling is we need to end the war, and then it's likely going to be other players, the Europeans or Gulf countries, that are going to come in and find a way to get the Strait reopened. I just don't think that these guys have the ability to do it. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Time for New World. All right. Thank you. Okay. New World, the Florida cop who pulled over a woman for distracted driving, insisting he saw her holding a phone in her right hand, only to find out she doesn't have a right hand, but gave her a ticket anyway, must not be judged too harshly. Being a cop is always dangerous, and for all he knew, she could have been armed. New World, the half-dozen kids who were hospitalized in San Diego after doing the Benadryl Challenge, where they consume, yes, a large quantity of Benadryl to induce hallucinations, must be congratulated. That's six kids who won't be dying from fentanyl. Six kids who got it through their heads that today's designer drugs are just too risky and said, you know what, let's party with the stuff grandma takes before a flight. Uh, New World, until 60 Minutes works through all its behind-the-scenes turnover drama, they have to change their name to Give Us a Minute. Man, I don't think anybody said you're fired on TV this much since The Apprentice. Oh! That's so funny. Sunday night used to be the one time of the week when families weren't fighting. One too many there. New Rule, whether you're about to have a fight in a movie, or whether you're about to have a fight in a bar, everyone has to come up with a better threat than I'm going to tear off your something and shove it up your somewhere. The human body has only so many things, to tear off, and only so many holes to shove them in. Fortunately, there's a simple fix. Before you start fighting, always threaten to tear them a new asshole. That's it. Uh, New Rule, it's not cute anymore when someone runs a dog for mayor of some small town. You know, it was funny the first hundred times, but I say if you're going to do it again and run Max, for mayor, you have to go all the way and put out an attack ad. Max wants to be your choice for mayor, but he doesn't even know how to read or write. Max claims he's a good boy, but do good boys spend their weekends eating trash? Isn't it time for a candidate who won't drag his ass on your new carpet? I'm Tom Smith. I'm qualified to be your mayor, and Max is not, because I can't stress this enough, he's a fucking dog. And. Finally, New Rule, congratulations to all the people who graduated from college this month, last month. Yes, it's commencement season, the time of year when college kids make the transition from campus life to their parents' basement. And I just want to say congratulations you did it and by it i mean had your first lesbian kiss as for the degree you just got that's a little more complicated there was a lot of booing at the commencement ceremonies this year which is weird because you know how hard it is to make bombing at a graduation speech all you have to do is give a little pep talk tell a joke about college debt and lie about how anything is possible but this year speakers did not read the room hey geniuses maybe don't mention ai to the people whose future jobs it's about to take artificial intelligence is the next industrial revolution the question is whether you will help shape artificial intelligence we do not know ai is rewriting production as we sit here you know and i gotta say the kids are right they're right to fear that in the age of ai that degree they're holding is about as useful as your unused miles on spirit airlines and you I'm really isn't that the big question we should now be asking about education now that you can get the answer to everything by asking your phone why are we going to college at all anyone Bueller anyone Rahm Emanuel who is definitely not running for president just released his five-point grand bargain plan for higher education and he said it's not the right thing to do but it's the right thing to do just released his five-point grand bargain plan for higher education, as private citizens with no political aspirations often do. Rahm wants to make college great again, cheaper, faster, more accessible. It sounds exciting and looks good on a campaign website, but it's a little like buying manned fighter jets in the age of drones. As it is, only about 35% of graduates get a job in their field of study, and now with AI, English major, AI can write, computer science major, AI can code, music major, AI already has songs on the charts, philosophy major, AI can learn to write names on coffee cups. And it's not like college was doing such a bang-up job before Google, Gemini. It's not like college was doing such a bang-up job before Google, 600 desperate professors from the California university system just signed an open letter to let people know that a lot of the kids coming into their college classroom have to be taught middle school math. Sadly, today many young people cannot locate on a map the countries we're bombing. Fox News sent a reporter to the beach on Memorial Day to find out what many typical young adults know, nothing. Not even what the holiday means, not who we fought against in our wars or why we fought them. World War II? That might have been against Vietnam. The level of basic shit these kids are let out of high school not knowing, like the country we gained our independence from? Who could know that? Oh, they know who knows. Yeah. Why bother learning with context when chat GPT can not only just tell me the answer, but also compliment me for asking such an astute question? Yeah. That's the one thing the robots figured out early on. We're less likely to oppose them if they're always acting like they kind of want to fuck us. You know, it's so easy to get, seduced by technology. I remember a teacher once scolding me for using a calculator, saying I should learn math because you're not always going to have your calculator walking around in the real world. Except now I, I don't have to know math because I do always have a calculator when I'm walking around in the real world. So fuck you, Mr. Banderholtz. No, no, no. No. His point was not wrong. The calculator disabled a part of my brain. Look, we all want the good parts of AI. Solving medical mysteries. Figuring out clean energy. But the vast majority of us will never use it for that. For us, it's a lobotomy with a monthly fee. We're not using it to cure cancer. We're using it because we forgot how to make toast. We emptied the kids' heads by letting them out of high school without knowing anything and then, what a perfect time for robots to come along and say, "No problem. I got you. I'm your brain now." That is one big grand experiment we're running here. Can humans survive if we completely outsource our brains to something else? that does all our thinking, like Jill Biden used to do for Joe. Fake laugh machine. Now, I'm no commencement speaker. They wouldn't let me near that podium, but I do have a message for the graduates, and it's this. You are not wrong. You do face an existential issue here, but the good news is it's one completely in your power to fix. Other issues that college students in the past faced, like ending the Vietnam War or civil rights or climate change, they all involve having to convince the older generation to do something. This one's all you. You are the AI generation, and you only have to convince yourself. I think it's great that you have this instinct to get involved and take up causes, and many are worthy, but get serious. Your issue shouldn't be Zionists or trans or plastic straws. No, your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to fight for humans and make sure we're not completely replaced. And you can't do it if you are hopelessly dependent on the thing that's replacing you. 90% of today's college students admit they've used AI academically, and 73% of the faculty say they've had to deal with AI integrity issues, formerly known as cheating. Maybe the commencement speaker should be booing you. AI has made college one big robot circle jerk where students use AI to write papers and professors use AI to grade them. Okay, can you see in this equation who has been completely cut out? The humans. It's the human kids. This is your issue. Fight for the humans. All right, that's our show. I want to thank my guests, Senator Chris Murphy, former ambassador Susan Rice, and former VP Mike Pence. Club Random drops every Monday on YouTube, or listen to it if you get to a podcast. Don't watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, guys. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com. There is so much NFL on ESPN right now. Monday Night Football, plus pregame and postgame. NFL Live, NFL Primetime. Everything you need to stay on top of every game, every week. Unbelievable. And now, NFL Network is on the ESPN app. More football, more coverage, more ways to watch. Football's on. All season long on ESPN and streaming on the ESPN app.