Ep. #730: Ben McKenzie, Dan Jones, David French

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late-night series Real Time with Bill Maugh. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. It's so kind. Thank you. Thank you so much, people. I appreciate that. I know you're happy that the big summit in China went sad, fantastic. No, Trump is on his way back right now. It's Friday, Friday afternoon in Los Angeles. He's probably in the air. Coming back to air. Do Andrews Air Force Base and Relations with China. I can just tell they're better now. I order takeout today. And the man you said, "Go ahead, make some substitution." You don't often do that, man. But honestly, Trump, he hates China, but he loves Xi. He loves President. To say this was a love fest between these two guys at the understatement, as he left, Trump said, "Thank Xi profusely for his hospitality." And gee, thank Trump for making China way more popular around the world. And it's not a guess. Our two countries have a lot of issues between them. But it seemed like in this big summit, they were mostly avoided. No demands, except you have to try these dumplings. That was the only. No, you know what? China knows what Trump likes. What is he like? He likes the pop and the parades. And he likes the red carpet. And there were thousands of children waving American flags. And, you know, and Xi, he's clever, you know. He knows. He bargained like someone who knows he holds the cards now. Ever since Trump backed down on their big trade war. In fact, as a subtle dig, they served orange chicken. Oh. Sonny, let's try and eat. Yeah, and. Xi, not holding back here. He said, "We are a declining nation." And Trump, he said, you know, he doesn't engage him like that. He just said, "Well, you know what? When he said declining nation, he was talking about Biden's four years." And Trump is right. When he said Trump gas prices, they haven't declined. And inflation, that's not declining. But. But, you know, Trump. He loves this guy. He calls him a tough cookie. He loves it. He loves a tough cookie. He says he's a great leader. I say it to everybody. He didn't say it to me. But, you know. I know, maybe. Maybe he did, and I didn't hear it, because I was so nervous. No, Trump says with Xi, there's no games with him. Getting a little weird. You know what? One point G told his friends that her tell Trump, don't catch feelings. It's a little. So, I'm glad our leaders of these two powerful countries and nuclear weapons aren't fighting, but it's getting a little, you know, personal. Trump said. You know what he said about Xi? He said, "If you went to Hollywood, you couldn't find in central casting a better guy for the. At one point, he said, "Gee or hair smells terrific." No, you don't remember that. Well, you know what? You know what people. Maybe America is in decline. You wouldn't know it. By who Trump brought with him on the trip, because he brought some fucking heavy hitters, man. Some tech bros. And these guys do run shit in this world, okay? Elon Musk was there. The CEO of Apple was there. Very sweet moment when the CEO of Apple, he saw all the kids. And he said, "Get back to work." I can't. All right. Woo! And, you know, come on. America distilled rules in a lot of ways. We got Elon Musk. He was there in a suit. You don't see that often. It shows the respect Elon Musk has for the Chinese leadership and out of respect for the one child rule that was a pillar of Chinese society for so long. While he was in China for two days, Elon only fathered one child. Very. Oh. Another of the tech titans that's from America, who was there, Jensen Wong of NVIDIA, the chipmaker, an interesting side note here. Trump this year has blots and sold millions of dollars in stock in companies that do business with the government. We're just doing that out front now? Including NVIDIA and Boeing. And, you know, who got some deals when he was in China, NVIDIA and Boeing? Scott Jennings, your move. Uh. And, of course, Trump's defense series that he uses a blind trust. Yes, that's what he gets from Republicans in Congress, blind trust, exactly. And. And I got to say, also, the right wing media. I mean, Sean Hannity was on the trip. They did an interview. I don't want to say Sean Hannity lobs a lot of softballs, but today he was made an honorary lesbian. And. All right, one more thing I hate to bring this up because I remember standing in this space like, "What was it six years ago?" And talking about COVID, and we said, "Okay, well, now there's this new one, Hauntavirus." I know, everyone's like, "Mm-hmm." We hope it's not, but, you know, we keep hearing some things like today. It came out, "It can survive in sperm for six years." I just got to say, "If you have sperm, that's more than six years old." See a doctor, you might be married. Oh, I can't. All right, we got a great show, then, Jones and David Frencher here. But first up, he's the actor who wrote, produced, and directed the new documentary film. Everyone is lying to you for money. Ben McKenzie-Ben. [ Cheers and applause ] Hey, how you doing? Good to see you too. Okay. All right, so Ben, everyone is lying to you for money, but really mostly about crypto. Why are you saying everyone? Because, really, it's crypto, but we're talking about in this documentary. That's right. Well, that's how you make the real money is with the fake stuff. Okay. And Donald Trump. Donald Trump is the perfect illustration of that. Okay, well, so if anyone's expecting this to be the kind of interview about crypto, where, you know, I tell you, the tough questions, and, you know, I -- I don't do that in the show. I never have -- I say what I think. I agree with people sometimes, I don't -- we're on the same bench here. So let's not just pretend. Let's just tear it the new asshole it deserves. You've tore it a new asshole. I've tore it a new asshole. Let's just start with this. Crypto. I didn't realize just what I saw this in your movie. 44% of the money that went to the last election from corporations came from crypto sources. That's crazy since it doesn't really exist. It's play money. And it's financing presidential elections. Yes. 44% of all money in 2024 came from crypto, the crypto lobby, and people associated with it. And what do we expect they're going to get from this because. They're getting it right now. They're getting legislation that's favorable to the industry. favorable in what way? They already passed a bill called the Genius Act, which, if you know this Congress, it's called the Genius Act. It's got to be stupid. The Genius Act allows corporations to issue their own currencies in the form of cryptocurrencies. So, literal corporate money, right? And look, the Republicans are going to vote for this nonsense because, of course, they're slavishly devoted to dear leader, but I'm really pissed off about the Democrats. I mean, 100 Democrats voted for this, including Hakim Jeffries, including my Congressman Dan Goldman, which is why I'm supporting his opponent. If a Democratic elected leader chooses literal corporate money over the interests of his constituents, I believe they should get the fuck out of the party. It is. It is nonsense. It's going on right now, actually. They just got a bill out of committee, another bill called the Clarity Act out of committee, and the Democratic Senator who got it out of committee is Ruben Gallego. In 2024, his campaign got terminated. $10 million from a crypto super pack. So I'm sure Senator Gallego's support of this is his deep understanding of love of blockchain technology. (audience laughing) But it might also be his cozy relationship with the crypto lobby. - Well, let's go back even further and try to explain why we think it's just so terrible because money, I mean, money's a dirty business area. Talk about it. Before crypto came along, the biggest villains were hedge fund guys. And hedge fund guys, you know, okay. I mean, they get very rich just chasing numbers around the screen. They don't actually make anything. But here's the difference. They do finance companies. The stock market does something. We have to somehow finance the government, which is $29 trillion in debt. Where does that come from? From banks, from actual money. In other words, what I'm saying is before crypto, maybe money was dirty, but it did do a service. You know, you need money. We all need money and money is itself a commodity. - Right. - What we're saying is this is just, crypto is just a Ponzi scam, but unlike even other Ponzi scams, there's nothing at the heart of it that you can cling it to. It's just saying nothing. Just my pure speculation. - Crypto is only good for two things. Gambling and crime. And the gambling is the betting that this or that cryptocurrency is gonna go up and down. - And drives. - And that's the crime, right? - Well, that's one of them. - One of the, exactly. One of many, many, many crimes. But the Donald Trump, you know, most of the money that he's made in office is bio-cryptocurrency. And what's terrifying about this bill that they just passed through committee, that by the way they need seven votes on the floor from the Democrats to pass. So I'm looking at, you know, Senator Warner, Senator Warnock, Senator also Brooks. I'm looking at them to hopefully do the right thing because if they don't, there's gonna be hell to pay. But they are, there is no provision in this bill to stop Trump's crypto corruption. No provision. And so Senator Guyago and all these Democrats will rail against Trump's corruption on a Tuesday. But on Wednesday, they vote for a bill that goes forward without any provision to stop that corruption. - So where's it gonna end? I mean, I keep, you were talking about criminals. I'm a kid after, let's say. I kidnap you because this is what goes on now. And I want the ransom is in crypto. - Yeah. - And the reason why is because it's not traceable like real money. - Hard to throw a bag of money off the bridge, you know, that we've seen in a million movies. No, okay. So it only works because the kidnapper is actually getting something of value. - Yes. - The crypto is real. This all goes away if the ball, you know, there's a ball in the air. It's just being held in the air by sheer belief. Does that ball ever fall down? - Well, what's changed since we last talked is these things called stablecoins, which are cryptos that the price doesn't go up and down. They're supposedly stable, although they fail all the time that'll shock you. But they're basically supposed to be pegged one-to-one with real currencies. So they're basically black market dollars. The ships passing the straight-of-room moves right now, the Iranians are getting their payment in stablecoins. This is counterfeit money. This is money, it's saying it's a US dollar, but it's not a US dollar. And it's only real purpose is criminal activity. And to give you a sense of how much criminal activity we're talking about. Last year, a crypto company estimated $154 billion of criminal activity was facilitated VO cryptocurrency. 154 billion in a single year. It is shocking and outrageous that our elected members of government are facilitating this. The largest stablecoin company is a company called Tether. The broker for Tether is Cantor Fitzgerald. Howard Lutnik's firm. So Howard Lutnik, or his kids, are in charge of Tether, the $200 billion stablecoin company. And Tether is the primary instrument for criminal activity in cryptocurrency. And who was Howard Lutnik? Commerce secretary. I'm just telling you. Oh, sorry. Yeah, it's like-- Sorry, I went deep. I went deep. Yeah, I mean, you got it. You don't-- You know, if you don't set up with a bad guy, as we got no show. He's the guy who looks like a-- It looks like a kind of a sea-ray Gordon Gecko, you know? He's got the-- But what's the answer to people who say, well, the dollar isn't real either. Because the dollar isn't really. Oh, yeah, exactly. The crypto guys, they're like, gotcha, you know? Well, what is the answer? All money's made up. Money's a social construct, right? What are we doing? Just like government and religion. Well, the difference is that our money, the real dollar, is backed by the full faith in credit of the United States. But it's also-- where's that full faith in credit come from? From our work. From the 300 million Americans who work their asses off and have contributed over 250 years to this country. And now these crypto guys are saying, oh, no, we can just privatize it, pretend it's a dollar, and basically, as they integrated into our financial system, what's going to happen is when crypto crashes again, it could take down the entire financial system. But when-- And we'll end up bailing these fuckers out again. Yeah, I mean, and then you say that it could be as little as 20 individuals who are really profiting from this. And everybody else-- I mean, millions of people have lost their shirt when they-- Yeah, it's an insider trading scam. Absolutely. I mean, the insiders always win. And the general public always loses on average. So that on steroids. Yeah, exactly. I'm to give you an example. Trump coin, right? His meme coin, down 96%. They had all the coins. His followers buy them. They dump on the followers. Now, some of them got something out of it. He hosted a dinner for the top investors. So the top investors got to have dinner with the president of the United States. Well, I have to tell you, that steak is on point. [LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] I'm not going to lie. It's probably the best steak I ever had. But every time I hear that it's crashing, it never does, because that's when other people go perfect time by low. Now you can get it cheap. So I don't see it ever going away, do you? I don't see it ever going away. And I'm not saying we should outlaw it. I'm saying the speculative cryptocurrencies, all the currencies where the price can go up and down. Bitcoin, Ethereum, Trump coin, Melania coin, Cum Rocket, my favorite. [LAUGHTER] All of those should be regulated like securities. This new law that they're about to pass will regulate them like commodities. And the reason that crypto wants this is that it's the smaller, weaker regulatory agency, the CFTC rather than the SEC. I know this may sound like a sort of an area diet point, but it's very important. The crypto industry has always wanted the CFTC to be in control. Sam Bankman freed wanted the CFTC to be in control, before he's arrested for running a large fraud. This is regulatory capture. They are deciding what laws, they're writing the laws themselves. How do these laws come into being? The lobbyists sit with the senators and their stabs and write these laws. It is, it's just completely outrageous. All right, man, don't lose your anger. All right, we need it. All right, good, all right. Thank you very much. I must leave our panel. Thank you, bro. I appreciate it. All right. [APPLAUSE] Hey. Hi, guys. OK, he is a New York Times colonimist visiting professor at Lipscomb University in co-host of the podcast Advisory Opinions, David French. Last but not least, it's been so long. And he's a historian and podcaster whose forthcoming book is called Castles of Fortified History of the World from the Bronze Age to the Nuclear Age. I'll be the first one to read it. Dan Jones, over here. [APPLAUSE] OK, I got to say this China summit, I was a little disappointed. I always look forward to big summits like this, because they're consequential. This didn't look that consequential. Oh, you agree with that. OK, I mean, maybe it was. I don't know, maybe things will come out of it. But to me, it reminded me of '70s, '80s sitcoms, where they traveled the show to Hawaii, you know, for a week. [LAUGHTER] It's not really different. The Brady bunches in Hawaii, and Fonzi is water skiing, but he still got the leather jacket on. It's kind of the same bullshit, but in a different locale. Am I wrong? In terms of policy decisions, in terms of big things that came out of it, there's not very much that came out of it. But in terms of its framing as a historical moment, I think that's what, when we look back on it, will be very interesting. And you heard all of this from the Chinese side, that this actually is a moment when China's emerging as a superpower, when in Xi's view of the world, this is the East on the rise, relative to the West led by America on the decline. Yeah, we've been here in that for a long time, and maybe we're at that point now. Well, and Xi makes a case. Oh, well, in 2025, there was a Chinese think tank producer report, which was called "Thank Trump", which made the case for the decline of the American Empire as a response to Trump in policies, dumping on your allies, hollowing out the economy, creating a perception that the West is in decline. So that may not necessarily be backed up by the fact of the crown. Well, our economy is not exactly hollowed out. Right, our economy is the envy of the world and has been for a while. Now, now, less right now, less in this moment with a straight-of-our-move close, but here's the thing. Here's why I think there's such cognitive dissonance that you feel Reagan and Gorbachev, when they're meeting-- Reagan's meeting with a peer and arrival. When Nixon and Brezhnev are meeting, they're meeting a peer and arrival. What we're watching here is Trump meeting a peer. and a pal. And that is something that is very unusual, especially out of an autocratic, totalitarian country. And the way to think about Trump is to think of it not as – he's not an isolationist. He's a fears of influence guy. And he looks at the world, essentially, there's three dudes that matter. Putin, she and him, right? And they divide up the spoils. And so China has its area, Russia has its area. And you wonder why we've been so aggressive towards Canada, towards Mexico. We've been so aggressive towards Cuba and Venezuela. That's our playground. And so that is the way he views the world. And I think he actually walks into a China summit in being Xi because he wants to be like Vladimir Putin. He wants to be like Xi to have that autonomy, to have that freedom of action that this pesky little separation of powers and federalism and Supreme Court denies him. Yeah, I got to say, I know what you're talking about because, gee, now maybe he's just inscrutable. But he does have a look on his face like, this guy thinks I like him a lot. Like that means anything to me. Yeah. And I actually do like him because he is making my life easy because, like, for example, my country, China, is leading in wind. And this guy, for no apparent reason, has a huge heart on about wind. So we'll take that one. And, you know, to the point about, are we in decline? It's like so interesting because there's a whole list of things you could say that are super pro for America and super con and the same for China. Like super pro, we're free. But we're also stupid. But our best people are not stupid. We're still a ball and fun place to be. So we got Elon Musk here. And we got, you know, the tech bros and we got lots of people who are still kicking ass in the world. So I don't know, you know, when I know it's like, this is in the playoffs of world dominion, this is the finals. Okay, a lot of countries get in the playoffs. Russia, the EU. But this is the finals. China and America. Who's going to win? Well, speaking of decline, I mean, look at it like this, decline with under Trump is a choice. I mean, this is a country that can still do great things. We just had the Artemis mission. We're about to have this, you know, Starship launch. That's a remarkable thing that is accomplished by Americans in America. We can do great things. But what Trump does is it's almost like, imagine you're playing the 98 Chicago Bulls in Phil Jackson decides to sit Michael Jordan. Well, that's decline is a choice, right? This is what we are choosing to be weaker. That's what we're choosing. That's not the same thing as a decline. Well, I think the pattern with the president is that he thinks he can get whatever we want by throwing our weight around. I mean, you saw that with Iran, which I thought was it necessary thing to at least try? We're at a different stage now. And you're seeing it with China and the trade war that he started. And, you know, he didn't win that trade war. The tarot. There's a lot about what we can do to you and very little thought put into, oh, and then what are you going to do to us? Because China didn't back down and either did Iran. Absolutely. And it's a personal thing. It's not even like what we can do. It's what I can do that everything is seen through the perspective of I, Donald Trump, whereas in fact, the history of American dominance and superpower status has been built as a leader of the free world. You know, with these allies under the American umbrella that when the president walks into a room, he represents the West in general, the free world. And that seems to be shrinking under Trump. I mean, historically, we're starting to see the US through his lens at any rate, as just being an extension of his own ego, which is, you know, in historical terms, I kind of look at someone like Xi. He clearly thinks of himself as a philosopher emperor, you know, in the ancient Chinese style. And you look at Trump and see it more like a kind of deranged Roman emperor, Nero, or a Caligua. You know what I mean? The winter is contracted down to this. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, the thing that disappointed me most about the whole thing is that from my way of thinking, the biggest issue with China and Russia, even bigger than the tariffs, even bigger than Iran, those things will get settled in AI. I mean, every time we warn about AI, and you find very few people who don't think that there is a huge danger there, that it could be literally an extension level event. They say, yeah, but the other argument is we're in a race with China. So, okay, China gets it, that this could be an extension level event. We get it, at least a lot of us do. We have to come to some sort of agreement with them so that we're not in this arms race. Here's what Trump said on the way back. We talked about possibly working together for guardrails. That's as good as it got. He said, AI is fantastic. So many things can happen in terms of health, medicine, and operations, true. And I'm counting on a lot of them. It's also got some drawbacks. Yes, like we could all die. So that to me was the big disappointment, is that we didn't move on the one really important thing that we have to move on, which is getting some sort of deal with the Chinese about AI before we race each other to death. Think of it as nuclear arms race 2.0, just a different version of an extension level technology that requires serious people who know things to actually sit in a room and to think think about this at the height of the Cold War, when the United States and the Soviet Union were sometimes inches from arm conflict, from open conflict. They were still able to get in a room and make serious agreements to limit the growth of their nuclear arsenals and ultimately to reduce the growth, to reduce the arsenals entirely. We've got a guy right now who walks in and his version of a deal is just that somebody maybe possibly says something positive and then he announces a deal or he just makes it up entirely. I feel like it's the Baghdad Bob administration. Do you remember Baghdad Bob in 2003? The Americans are nowhere near while you hear the gunfire. Everything is fine. There's an American tank right across the street. This is Trump. He is constantly promoting deals that don't exist, victories that never happened. The Iran War is a tremendous example of this. He was hyping the results and hyping the results and the reality is turning out to be really, really grim. I've never encountered this in my entire life where you look, administrations have lied in the past. This administration lies at industrial scale. To the point, I didn't know. At the Heidi the Iran War, I didn't know if the Trump administration was more honest or the Islamic Republic was being more honest. That is a sad, sad statement about America. And if people don't know why our hair is on fire about this with the AI issue, one of the tech people who I don't think was on the trip is Dario Amote. He's from Anthropic. They're kind of known now as the AI group with the conscience. He refused to do the government's bidding at some point. This was a big issue a couple of months ago because he said he's not going to give the government his technology unless they agreed to not cross two red lines. One was mass domestic surveillance and the other was fully autonomous weapons. In other words, no one in the kill chain. This is what we're worried about. When there's no one in the kill chain, when it's just the machines talking to the machines, yeah, they could make that decision, but not how they're programmed. Like, oh, these people were misgendering. They all have to die. But here's the problem when you view AI purely as a profit opportunity. And that seems to have been the purpose on the China visit is, well, we're going to take Nvidia because we want to make a deal that involves X number of billions that I can announce it on Air Force One or not. And that strips away from the AI question, everything that you're talking about, which is that this is way more than just a fuel for the economy. This is an extinction level, existential level issue that requires grown-up leadership. As you say, David, on the level that we last saw in Toronto, in nuclear arms and at the moment, that's not that. And to make it even more complicated, the chips that run everything. Where do they come from? Taiwan. Right, right. Taiwan, which is what, I mean, she had one major message to Trump, despite all the flattery and all the children and all the flags and what he was saying was, that's Chinese territory. It always has been. I know you guys talk to side of your mouths about it. You don't really say you're going to come to Taiwan's defense, but you don't say you don't. If you want to see me mad, give more weapons to Taiwan or come to the defense of Taiwan. So the place that gives us the chips that power the stuff that would allow us to fight Taiwan, to fight China, come from the place that China wants to take over. What's going to happen with that? I mean, look, that's core national security interest right there. These chips being made in Taiwan, what have we done? We have delayed a $15 billion arms package to Taiwan. I thought we were in the middle of this pivot to Asia, that one of the reasons we're removing people out of Europe, which by the way, we just torpedoed, blindsided, the polls, Bye. removing a brigade of American troops without really notifying them in advance. That's a diplomatic crisis right now. So here you have Taiwan. We're supposed to pivot to China to be stronger towards China. Well, we delay $15 billion to Taiwan. Trump's statements regarding Taiwan are weaker than President Biden's statements regarding Taiwan. And right now, if I'm China, I would think there's a very good chance that Donald Trump would not lift a finger to defend Taiwan. And the main deterrent against China right now is the revolution in warfare that I don't think they can survive a drone-swarmed attacking across the straits of Taiwan. And that's across the straits. So it's a terrible situation right now. And we're a little weapons depleted because we use so many of them in the Iranian situation. We're also a little reason depleted because once you start to reduce Taiwan to a matter of semiconductors and chips and take away the big reasons for defending Taiwan also used to include we defend democracies around the world. That we defend our allies around the world. That there's a strategic interest in this line that runs down from Japan through Taiwan to the Philippines. And these all mattered. And these were part of America's virtue in the world. And once all that starts to be jettisoned and allies matter less, and it comes down to just a matter of chips, if God forbid, if we have to go to war over Taiwan, how do you make that case? I mean, as Trump came back today, he said, oh, I'm not interested in the war nine and 1/2,000 miles away. Oh, really? That's how far Taiwan is. How far is Iran? 7,000 miles away? Yes, 7,000 miles away. It's good, but not nine and 1/2, yeah. OK. Well, there are other news stories. And I want to get to. One is very important. It is the cruise ship industry, which there's been a lot of news about, all good. No, there was this hunt of virus that broke out on this cruise ship. And before that, there was the narrow virus. And before that, I want to get this rights so I don't get sued by my former employee Disney. 27 cruise ship workers, including some from the Disney cruise line, were deported after having engaged with child pornography. OK. So I never been a fan of the cruise ships, but they know where they are now with the public as far as their image goes. So they're kind of embracing it. You got to lean into it. Would you like to see some of the posters that they wear? I thought you'd mind. For example, Carnival Cruises. Test positive for fun. [CHEERING AND APPLAUSE] The Cunard Cruise Line. We're pretty sure Clarine kills all the bad stocks. [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] The Viking River cruise. No questions asked when your spouse goes missing. [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] Holland America, our service is number one. Our floors are flooded with number two. [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] Well, they've got to make the mess up. [APPLAUSE] Disney, bring the kids and share touching moments. [APPLAUSE AND CHEERING] Resorts world, answering the question, what a Florida could float. [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] Legion 7C is what you call being quarantined. We call extending your stay. [APPLAUSE AND CHEERING] Disney, eat kids free. Wait, we mean kids eat free. [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] Royal Caribbean vomiting gives you abs. Well, that's-- [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] And Princess Cruises, at least you're not in the straight-up hormones. OK. So-- [APPLAUSE AND CHEERING] Let us give the public the information here. The risk says Dr. David Fritter, the incident manager at the CDC, the risk to general population remains low. Now, two things here, one, that's exactly what they said about COVID. And two, I don't know who Dr. David Fritter is. He's at the CDC. I don't know if he's one of RFK's, you know, RFK says, you can ward it off by blowing a dead raccoon. So I-- I don't know who-- [APPLAUSE AND CHEERING] I don't know who Dr. David Fritter is. Maybe he's an old-school guy who we can trust. I don't know anymore, and that's part of the problem. Is that on both sides of the equation, the public does not have any trust anymore, or some trust, but not as they used to, in the CDC, and in what the government is telling you about pandemics. Well, what do we do about that? You and I could nerd out about the Justinian play and the bubonic play, because I love to talk medieval plagues. I would-- I do too, right? I know. But let's say that for the end of the discussion and talk about the one. What do you think? Are you nervous? Do you think this is something to worry about? Is it a repeat of COVID, or is it a big-- I'm not nervous based on the available information, but here's what I am a little bit nervous about. Is that we'll go into this other cycle where public health officials just won't level with us. They won't do things like say, we don't know. And instead, what they'll say is the words that they feel necessary to manipulate us into a particular decision set. Just say what you know. And if you don't know something, say, we don't know. And I think looking back on COVID, and I know nobody likes to look back on COVID. That's one of the original sins, I feel like we were, in many ways, manipulated. Do this, and it will achieve this outcome, when really what they were doing is they were guessing. This is our best guess with an unknown and new disease. And there were far more authoritative than the evidence allowed them to be. And that's a reason why a lot of people don't trust any. And they said a lot of things that did not turn out to be true. And they squelched a lot of opinions that turned out to be true. I mean, I do like to look back on COVID, because I do think I was kind of right about it. You know, I never wanted that particular vaccine for that particular disease, which I thought my own immune system could handle, and I bet it could. But I said a million times. Another one that could come along, I would fight you for the vaccine. I said that over and over. This is that one, because this hunter one, it's harder to get, but I got to tell you, if you do get it, don't buy any green bananas. APPLAUSE So this one, I want to be first online, but you cried wolf with the other one, with the mask and the distancing, and the pretending that natural immunity didn't count anymore. All of this bullshit, it goes into it, the equation, when you cry wolf like that. Yeah. I mean, of course it does. And without going all the way back to Justinian, there was a probable hunter virus in the 16th, 17th century, called the sweating sickness, which had a 30 to 50% lethality rate, and killed you in two days. Give me the green banana, give me the raccoon if you have to. Like, I will, I will do anything. But you're absolutely right. I mean, the level of public trust that was eroded by over stringent lockdowns, by forcing people to take a vaccine, whether they needed it or not, whether they wanted it or not, will come back. Let's hope this is not the next pandemic, but if there's another pandemic any time soon, it will come back. And then the blame can only be leveled at the officials and the governments that made such crazy policy in COVID in the first place. Yeah, it's also so annoying is that we didn't learn anything about what causes this to begin with, which excuse me, Peter Borden member, but it's because we treat animals the wrong way. All these things arise from animals. This thing, I think, started because people were sightseeing on a landfill, right? Oh, who wouldn't want to do that? Who doesn't want to go and stand me deep in shit to watch a seagull eat a corn chip off of a used condom? What a great way to spend your food. So these idiots get it, but it's factory farming. It's keeping animals in a state that makes them sick and then we get sick from them. Bird flu, SARS, all these things come to swine, so it all comes from animals. And we never learned that by sin and we haven't done a thing about it. Not a thing about factory farming. I mean, there was a time, you know, these plagues that came from rats back in the day where there wasn't really a choice. The way of life meant that you lived amongst vermin and rodents, and that was everybody sort of doing their best. But now we have the knowledge of that. And we have the ability to say, hey, you know what? The way that the food chain is set up is predisposed to create conditions that may lead to pandemics. All the way that we're testing, we're testing gain of function in viruses. This is dangerous to public health. I mean, everybody knows this and still we keep doing it. You know what my celebrity fake name is when I check into it? Well, I guess I blew it now. Well, I'll get a new one, but when I check into a hotel, you know you have to use a fake name. You see V.S. Pestis. [LAUGHTER] Yes, that's a sequel. You know what that is? Tell it. The name of the bagel that caused the black death. That is. Be panic, Clegg. You're CVS, Pestis. I think it's a great name. [LAUGHTER] It sounds really cool. I've never been more impressed. [APPLAUSE] Wow. Well, I mean, on the issue of, like, are we in decline? This is kind of another way, which I think China thinks we're in decline, and it's one point on that scorecard, that we don't even have the trust of our own people. I know China thinks that we're in decline, partly because we don't like each other. There was a study that came out recently. This is of all 25 countries in the world, they surveyed. We're the only ones where the people in the country think the other people in the country are shit. Ever-- you know what the study I'm talking about? I know all about this study, and some of the other countries where people like each other more than America, they were actually involved in some civil strife. So like, they're shooting each other and liking each other more than we do. So this is-- I'm so glad we're talking about this, because if you want to know what is ailing our politics, this is a big, big part of it. Not long ago, there was a study called the Belonging Index that was done to ask Americans, did they feel accepted in their communities, in their jobs, in their families, et cetera? And the answer was an overwhelming majority of Americans don't feel like they belong in this country. And they feel like they've been rejected. They don't, or are there other people? No, they're-- they lack a sense of belonging, I have acceptance. When I say not that they need to leave, but in other words, that they don't feel accepted in their own communities and their own workplaces. And the people who lack that sense of belonging, what are some characteristics they share? Well, they're less committed to democracy, for example. They have less openness to being around people from different backgrounds. If you want to heal a lot of what's wrong with this country, actually be kind to other human beings to make them feel like they have a place here, and they're going to be less drawn to extremism. Believe it or not, I'm going to sound like a kindergarten teacher right now, Bill. I'm going to say, you want to know how to help heal our country? Make a friend. But specifically, try to make friends in the communities that don't feel like they belong in this country. And you're going to go a long way to do this. [APPLAUSE] Yeah, but that sounds like it's all happening on one side. It's happening on the other side, too. Yes, there are people in ICE who make people who are in this country, who are rewrite to be in this country, and not feel like they should belong to you. And there's also people on the left who wouldn't invite their own relative to Thanksgiving. So it's not a one-way view. It's a bipartisan issue, and it's also connected to the lack of friendship, especially amongst men and working-class men. A shocking percentage of men right now have no friends at all. No close friends at all. And those people are more drawn to extremism. They're both on right and left. That's why I do all-male shows. [LAUGHTER] This guy's made a place to part of the solution. Part of the solution I'm trying. You know, this is also a story about cell phones, right? This is also a technological story. It is. The hybridization of machine mind and human mind is very far advanced through the phone in your pocket. And the negativity runs throughout social media is now manifesting in the way that people react with each other. They silo themselves through staring at a screen like this. It's easier to do this than to talk to the people around you. This is driving you towards polarity of thought towards insularity of community. And you end up not talking to real people and never having your views on other people challenged. And this deep feeling of isolation. A lot of it is springing from this. And this is like a-- this is a civilizational revolution. And the economy. Because I read the American Enterprise Institute just told us that 25% of young people, only 25%, talk to their neighbor. I think this is a lot having to do with the income inequality. Either your upper middle class, which we reported recently, way better than they used to do. The three times the upper middle class than there was in 1980. That's a lot of fairly rich people. But they live in McMansions. They have gates and walls and lots of room. So you don't talk to those neighbors. I should untalk to mind. [LAUGHTER] I mean, I would, but we just don't see each other. And then, if you're poor, you're on top of each other. And one man's ceiling is another man's floor. And you're fucking hate these people. Because you smell their farts, and you hear their fights. And you know-- You know, one thing that I'm so glad you brought up the economy as well, because there's a statistic that I think is very alarming. Top 10% of Americans in income now account for majority of all consumer spending. So what that means is the entire economy is warping for the most wealthy 10%. These are just companies acting in their rational economic interests. And so what it creates to use an airline boarding group analogy is like a group one economy when most of us have group nine incomes. And that doesn't work for people. It just doesn't. All right, thank you guys. This was a real pleasure. Time for New World, everybody. [APPLAUSE] OK, New World before Amazon sells me a hyper-realistic $99 cement log. They have to tell me, what makes it better than a log? I guess because it's cement, it's a little more durable than a piece of wood. But if it's only better because it's more indestructible, why do I need the three-year protection plan? All right. [APPLAUSE] New World Gen Z can't seriously believe it's a scary microaggression when a boomer puts punctuation at the end of a text. Kids, have you read the news? In the last few years, Republicans seem determined to completely ban abortion everywhere. But the period you're worried about is at the end of a sentence. [LAUGHTER] Thank you. New World sends people from around the globe are about to descend on Los Angeles for the World Cup. We have to change our motto from, we are Los Angeles to Los Angeles. It wasn't always like this. [LAUGHTER] You know, just a little something to prepare our foreign friends when they get here and think, hey, Caramba, this look different on Baywatch. New World, now that your religious questions can be answered by an AI rabbi, an AI imam, and an AI priest threatening the jobs of clergy members worldwide, we have to ask the question, now who's going to do horrible things to children? [APPLAUSE] I'm kidding, we still have the music industry. [LAUGHTER] New World next time a president dozes off at a public event. Someone has to draw a dick on his forehead. [LAUGHTER] Do I have to explain how America works? We don't do Cestus here. You can either grab a cup of coffee and get back to work, or we will replace you with younger Latino workers. [APPLAUSE] And finally, New World since yesterday was Israel's birthday, having become a nation on May 14, 78 years ago. Everyone must either wish her a happy birthday or admit their anti-Semitic. Now, it's everyone's right in a free country to be anti-Semitic, but enough with hiding behind Israel or Zionism or Netanyahu, if you think as so many do now that when it comes to human rights, Israel is the monster country of all time. You either don't read, or you don't care about your own hypocrisy, because there are so many worse places. But that's where we are these days. No Jews, no news. Aha. But China, Russia, Sudan, Iran, Myanmar, Haiti, the Congo, North Korea, all way worse. And that's how you know it's anti-Semitism. It's the inconsistency. People talk about Jews these days, like something out of Stormfront, except it's not Stormfront. It's an editor from the American Prospect, which is a venerable liberal publication that launched the careers of journalists like Ezra Klein, and yet no one blinks when one of their editors says, Israel is a brainwashed psychopathic death cult that might need to be nuked to save the human race. Aha. People say the left and the right can't agree on anything these days. Well, there is this one thing they agree on. Right-winger Tucker Carlson has nick Fuentes and Holocaust deniers on his podcast. And wonders along with them, who really was the bad guy in World War II? And the New York Times has on their podcast, Super Leftist Hassan Piker, who they call a progressive mind, and who says Zionist should be treated the same as Nazis, which I assume means hung at Nuremberg. That's what progressive is now? I guess so. The kids are sure into it. [BLANK_AUDIO] Nuts last year at Coachella for kneecap. That's the name of an Irish rap group. That's if Ireland hasn't suffered enough. (audience laughs and applauds) Their stage set is a sign that says, "Fuck is real." And then they send a beach ball around the crap. Again, ha-ha. (audience laughs) Because again, Israel is the only country in the world doing anything bad. I see why the meat-head, manned sphere, and the code-pink people are on the same page. Because they both went to high school in America and they don't know anything. (audience laughs and applauds) So we really could someday soon have the teaky torch Jews will not replace us crowd. And the queers for Palestine people working together to elect the next Hitler. There's a North Carolina teenager who's been charged with plotting to drive through a synagogue to fulfill her life goal of killing as many Jews as possible. 'Cause the kids gotta have a dream. I'm just asking why in the world would this be the dream of some kid in North Carolina? Why is it the dream of Dan Bilzerian who's running as a Republican to win a house seat in Florida? Who's Dan Bilzerian? Well, he's a professional douchebag who's attracted 30 million followers by doing this all day and posting it. (laughs) Yes, he'll fit in fine with the current Congress. (audience cheers and applauds) And Dan is fairly typical of the guys in the manned sphere when he says, "The only real battle in the world today that I see worth fighting is fucking, you know, exterminating Israel." I mean, I would sign up tomorrow to go fucking put boots on the ground and go fucking kill Israelis. Why? Why is this asshole's life about two things, getting more Viagra and exterminating the Jews? Israel was founded on the idea that anti-Semitism made a Jewish state unnecessary because Jews would never be safe without one. Can you honestly listen to this rhetoric and not see why that turned out to be true? If you don't have the right lingers on your side and you don't have the progressives, what do you have? What's more progressive than college? Where professors now say things that would make Kanye win. (audience laughs) Osman Umgarji calls Zionist bloodthirsty animals who is he, the leader of ISIS? No, he's a professor right here in California at UC Irvine. And Candace Owens agrees with his assessment of Jews as animals because she says, wherever they go, they bring their filth with them. Another professor, Hamid Dabashi, says of Israel's, they have a vulgarity of character that is bone deep and structural to the skeletal vertebrae of its culture. These are the kind of statements gerbils would have read and said, no note. (audience laughs) I mean, where are the Jewish space lasers when you need them? (audience laughs) Now, there are absolutely horrible things said about Muslims too. That should also be, of course, roundly condemned like Republican Congressman Randy Fein saying, if they force us to choose the choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one. That's awful. But it's not the same as they need to be nuked and let's exterminate them. This is why Jewish people here and in Europe now say they sometimes hide their identity. Afraid that the star of David will get them attacked as has happened in almost too many places to mention lately. Leave your star of David at home, but the kafaya, you can wear that anywhere. You can wear it to fiddle around the roof and you'll get applause. Jew hatred isn't just acceptable, no, it's cool. Celebrity's love it and make it trendy. It's the new Sheikh of Eritish shirt. The Islamophobia is just as bad argument. It's simply a false equivalency. Can you name a Jewish professor who talks about Muslims the way they get talked about? No. Anti-Jewish crimes, hate crimes. Now outpace anti-Muslim hate crimes, nine to one. It's not a contest and I'm certainly not saying do more of the other. I'm just saying these are the numbers, the facts, the reality. There is a frothing anxiousness for the literal extermination of this one group. And Democrats, where are you? If any other minority group was being talked about this way, you'd break out the Kenta cloth and have 10 benefit concerts. But because you see that so many of your brainwashed by TikTok constituents now have an unfavorable view of Israel, you indulge them when you should be correcting them. You don't tell your woke idiots, Israel isn't a colonizer or an apartheid state or committing genocide. And that if you Bratz had to spend a week anywhere in the Middle East, other than Israel, you would understand what liberalism is not. All the people likely running for president now on the Democratic side, want it known, they don't take money from APAC, the Israeli lobby. A stanch, which gives permission to actual anti-Semites to say, "See, we're right about Israel." That's a dirty money from a dirty country. Oh, please, you take money from crypto and factory farmers and big tech from Diddy and Weinstein and Epstein, but APAC is too far? Let me just say this to all who ask me, "Why are you harder on the Democrat than you used to be?" Until you fix this whole issue, stop asking me. Thank you very much, that's our show, we're off next week. And back on the 29th, I want to thank David French, Dan Jones, and Dan McKenzie. Club random drops every Monday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10. Or watch him anytime on HBO on demand. For more information, log on to HBO at 8.com. Larry David is back in their new HBO original limited series. What a pleasure to be a part of such a historic occasion. Larry and the pursuit of unhappiness and almost history of America. This is a declaration of carbon sand. Those who don't know history. You are the world's worst body channel. Our doom to watch Larry David repeat it. What the hell is going on here? Watch Larry and the pursuit of unhappiness, now streaming on HBO Max. Subscription required, visit hblemax.com for details.