Ep. #726: Kara Swisher, Rahm Emanuel, Jake Sullivan

Welcome to an HBO podcast, from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maugh. Hey, how are you? How are you doing now, man? Thank you, people. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here. Thank you. Oh, wow. Thank you so much. So much to get to. Listen to the kind of person who only gets your news from this show as you should. So much. Just from week to week, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, because Iran would not open the state of her most. You've been following this. Trump just threatened to destroy civilization. At least their civilization. Well, now we've pivoted. Okay, good. Okay. We have a whole new plot into this. Trump said Iran can't blockade the state of her moves. You know why? Because we're doing it. You cannot destroy the world economy. That's our job. So whatever. Good news. Good news. Trump said today, traffic is moving in the Persian Gulf. And if it works there, we're going to try it on the 405. Okay, so Iran, I think, has called their blockade off, but our blockade is still on, which means, oh, fuck it. Why write a joke about this? Absolutely. Before I get to the punchline. But here's what Trump tweeted out today. This is interesting. This is word for word. He said, "It has been my honor to solve nine wars, and this will be my 10th." And 10 is very exciting. It means the next one is free. Also, good news. Trump says that Iran has agreed to turn over their own rich uranium. He said they agreed very powerfully to turn over their rich uranium. Of course, the hard part here is informing Iran that they agreed to that. That is never something to mean for sure. And apparently there's a piece of treatment. Well, a ceasefire, not a ceasefire in Lebanon. Thank you, one lady. For Israel and Hezbollah. Hezbollah could tell something was going on, because their pages were blowing up. Oh, I kid Hezbollah. So we have a ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. We have a ceasefire between Trump and Iran, and fingers crossed, we might even have one between Trump and the Pope. Is that the other old? Have you seen that? They are beefing. That is a full-on rap war going on between the Pope. But I don't know who to vote for in this one. I really don't. I mean, I don't like the old white guy with the real estate empire, but I have my issues with Trump, too. It's so cheesy. It's rump. He's always going to Trump. He's just going to, you can't stop. Whoever he gets into a fight with, it's always the same. So you know what he said about the Pope the other days? "Week on crime." Yeah, because he's not a detective in Detroit. "Week on crime." Yeah, Pope. Pope's, uh, Pope's don't fight crime. Have you seen their record on pedophilia? I mean, it's not great. Well, that. I love hypocritical America. I really do. See, liberals suddenly love the Pope. The Pope, who two weeks ago was all in the headlines, you know why? Exorcisms. Yeah, there's big thing about it. The demons are all around the devil. That's who the fucking Pope is, okay? A guy who does exorcism doesn't believe in gay marriage, no women, priests, but now, because he's feuding with Trump, MSNBC loves this guy. He got a big speech on the floor from Chuck Schumer, Eric Swalwell, sent him a dick pic. Oh, yes, let's. Big, uh, big story here in California. The front runner for the governor was Eric Swalwell, congressman Eric Swalwell, and he has dropped out of the race. Five women came forward now and accused him of terrible sexual stuff. He denies it, of course. But, you know, people are furious because they say this was kind of an open secret going on and why people knew this. I think. I think they're right. I think the signals were everywhere. Like, you know how politicians always wear the flag pin. He had an eggplant emoji. So, he is also now stepped down as a congressman. He's not even there anymore because, you know, it turns out first one woman comes forward, then it's four, then it's five. It turns out he hit on a lot of women and also, once in a dark cocktail lounge, Christy Nome's husband. But, that's a different. So. So, he is completely gone, but before he left, he did apologize to the 11 million women voters in California and invited them all to his hotel room. All right, you got a great show. They have ambassador to our former ambassador, Rama Manuel, and former National Security Advisor. Wow, Jake Sullivan, but first up, she's an award-winning podcast host of new CNN series, "Carrie Swisher," wants to live forever air-study nights at nine on CNN. "Carrie Swisher." Hey you. How are you? I'm just seeing you. All right, yeah. How you doing? Yeah, how you doing? Well, I'd like to live forever. Would you? Also, I really enjoyed that a lot of people. Eric Swalwell joke was. A lot of people when you say that to say, "No, I don't." Yeah. You know, I don't get that. I think it's how happy you are. If you. I think if your life is going along pretty good, like, "I could do this," you know, "I don't want to die. I'll miss the playoffs." Uh-huh. Okay. You know, the things I like in life, I like. I wouldn't mind doing them forever. Maybe in a thousand years, I'd be like, "She's another crossword puzzle, but right now, I like it." But we are getting. I mean, look, we are at a certain age where we have more yesterdays than tomorrow. Yes, that's correct. Thank you. So poetic. Well, I'm not the first one to say that, but that's what it is. I know that. And I love your special because I saw the early cut, because, you know, you kind of weave your own ideas about mortality with your expertise on Silicon Valley, which I've been reading for years at the guys in Silicon Valley, the tech heroes and the billionaires, they really think between their money, which is an orbitate, and their expertise and technology, they can live forever. Or at least affect similarly very long, and then they can preserve themselves in some fashion after they're gone. Or they're bought, they're meat sacks, as Elon Musk has referred to. As opposed to other sacks. Right. So what do you make of this? Do you think this is elitist? Do you think this is. I do, I do. And one of the things, it's interesting just to get at the heart of psychologically why they're doing it. Of course, if they hack this, they hack social, they hack politics, they hack technology, they can hack health. And that's been in their heads forever. And some efforts, like, I have to say Larry Alston's doing some really interesting things around an institute. And then some of it gets to be like Brian Johnson, who's well-known to that, right? I hit him on my podcast. I like Brian. Yes, he's actually. It's an interesting. Let's play in Who Brian is, because he's one of your episodes. Right. He actually showed up at one of my conferences talking about brain health. This was in 2017. And he looked relatively normal. I don't. I think what he looks like now is interesting, I suppose. And he has started to hack. He's started to experiment on his body to see how much longevity he could get, how much health he could get, how can. The word they like to use is optimize themselves. They want to optimize themselves. And let's be clear with not with exotic means. By. Sometimes. What do you consider? Well, he injects himself with stem cells, which is. He goes to Mexico to do that. He goes to the. He, you know, he measures his erections. Yes, he does. And. Concentrate. But mostly it's because he just lives this spartan life. He goes to bed. Yes. You know, like exactly the same time we're going to eat a clock, the perfect time to go to bed. He only eats. Not any of these things. No, it's like nuts, berries, olive oil. Right. And I asked him because he said, you know, you can measure your biological age versus your real age. I mean, I have a thing on my fun app that can do that. I think you did it in one. I did, as a joke. Right. -Why is a joke? -Because it's not accurate. It's just a game. A lot of this stuff is to game. You know, you have to real testing to do that. -Well, I don't know. I mean, they have a lot of ways to test you about. Anyway, Brian's, I think, was -- He's -- Right, but the time I talked to him, I think he was 46, but his biologically was 41. I said to him, "He lived like a monk and you shaved six years off." I lived like David Crosby as shape three. -Right, exactly. So one of these things, you know -- [ Cheers and applause ] -I don't have an issue because, you know, when he came to code, he talked a lot about brain health and he had depression issues and everything else. But what's interesting is he's spending $2 million a year to do this, and thinking that it's going to help humanity, I think, in his head, and it's not. I mean, it's a experiment of one. And that's what's -- You know, and he says it himself. He's like, "I know everyone thinks I'm a narcissistic, Patrick Bateman-style mother-fucker." And it looks like that. And so where does it help everybody else? And that's what I want to talk about. -I actually like it that he's doing that because I can -- Well, I know I'm a lot. I can call him up and ask him, "What is the latest data?" You -- I mean, he calls himself the most studied human being ever. -Well, he calls himself a rejuvenation athlete. -Well, whatever he's doing, I'm not going to do it. -No. -Like, I'm not going to measure my erections. -Well? [ Laughter ] -Not that way. Anyway, it's a different way you can measure whether there's still working. -It's just an experiment of one. And so I think what's interesting is there's all this amazing thing happening all over the place. And then you have all this noise of sort of wellness grifters. And I don't consider him a wellness grifter necessarily. There's always supplements involved with these people or something they're selling to you. And so there's all this misinformation about health online that people are availing themselves to. And then there's, you know, all this sort of panic about longevity. And then there's some really amazing things happening. And so I wanted to sort of look at the juxtaposition and start with Steve Jobs, who gave a famous speech about mortality and how death was the single greatest invention of life, which was very different than these guys who were like, "I am a God, I'm going to live forever." And so I wanted to sort of explore that part. Because I think, Steve, I'm more on the Steve Jobs side of this. -Well, I'm sure he didn't want to die when he did. -He absolutely didn't. And I interviewed his son who's trying to do a lot of stuff using lots of technology and different cancers that he's doing. And I think that's sort of greater what Mark Cuban's doing, trying to bring down prescription drug play crisis. -He or even Mackenzie Scott, who just gave $100 and some million to meals on wheels. That's going to help older people live long. Like, I want to see what could work for the rest of us and not just this very elite rich group of people. [ Cheers and applause ] -I agree, but since they have the money, -Yes. -That's who's going to do the experimenting. I mean, I want to know why Steve Jobs, of all people, got pancreatic cancer. -Right. -It does not seem like the type. It just says to me, "We still don't know shit about cancer." -Right, so that should be accompanied by not cutting funding to act as a candidate, but we're doing that. We are so -- funding cuts that are happening at colleges and universities, which was the original place where a lot of these things happen that these guys could avail themselves to. That's been devastating, you know. And then there's all these manner of things that just need gold standard tests so the rest of us can participate in this. And that's all I'm saying is that a lot of this health and longevity stuff is for a very small group of people who don't really care about the wide population. And one of the things that I know -- everyone's like, "What's the one thing you should do to live longer? Don't be poor. Be rich." -Right. -It's the number one thing. The second one, universal health care. We need it for everyone at a base level. And the third thing, oddly enough, is friends and family, which there's a lot of scientific proof showing the isolation, loneliness, et cetera, from digital, which is sort of the thing I've been talking about for a long time, is really deleterious to people's health in some ways. And we should be thinking about social connections and COVID really broke us in many ways. And one of them was the connections between people. And that's really important, too. So -- -Yeah, there's so many books out about, you know, how to be healthy and live, and I really feel like they all should be called no shit. -No shit, right? -You know what I'm saying? -I agree, I agree. -Don't be lonely. -Right. -You know, don't eat like a child. -Right, don't eat like a child, right? -You know, just -- But look, the other thing I wanted to pick your brain about is this G-L-P-1. -G-L-P-1. -Okay, which -- I was on pick, it's the most thing. -One of them, yeah. There's a jar of -- -Yeah, okay. -I've been skeptical from the beginning. You've seen less so, now -- -Fan less so, because I've talked to a lot of -- -Okay, but you've seen -- -It's my actual sign. -But you see the articles that were out this -- -I did, in the Washington Post. -Okay. I've been hearing this on the low for a while. -On the low, for who? -Yes. -I'll tell you after this show. -All right, okay. -Somebody you would know. -Okay, all right. -Somebody like that who has a lot of money, big tech, blah, blah, blah. It said, you know, he's been hearing. And in his company, also, they don't like their employees on this stuff, because -- -Oh, you don't work hard enough for the man? -They don't. Okay, it takes away your craving for food and maybe substance abuse. -Yeah. -Also kind of for success, and sometimes for living and for being motivated. They get kind of loggy, you know? -Well, maybe living to work all the time. And that may be such a bad thing, right? I mean, they would love everyone to work for them as long as they could. -Well, there's a happy medium between -- -Absolutely. But, you know, oddly enough, there's a really -- Michael Pollan wrote a book where he was talking about coffee. Coffee got really popular and pushed, because they used to drink during lunch. Everyone used to drink, and then not come back to work. And that made them loggy, right? But then, coffee kept people going. Coffee's a drug, too, and it made some parts -- it's good, some parts is bad. And so, to me, look, that may be he's not getting the work he wants out of his people -- so sorry, rich person. I'm not -- I don't feel victimized yet. But what I'm worried about is obesity and the way people die of things that are unnecessary. And I'm not talking about just measles, which is insane that people are getting measles these days. A caller is next, I guess. Then we can move on to polio, all these solve diseases. And then the plague, of course. But one of the things that we have to understand is obesity is one of these things that we could fix. And then we combine it with good nutrition, figuring things out around exercise and getting people the food they need and stuff like that. And so, it's a step in the direction, but it's not a solution, but it certainly will start to bring down -- which is a diabetic industrial complex in this country. And that's another issue we have to start. Funny, if it works, and it makes people less motivated to go to work and hang out with their friends, I'm fine with that. I'm perfectly fine. Well, it's a terrific special. I hope people watch it and see it. Thank you. What do you do for your health? I'm curious, would it? [ Laughter ] I'm not married. OK. That's a long journey. Let's just leave it there. OK, Aaron. Thank you very much. Please don't die any time soon. We love having you here. God bless you, everybody. All right, let's meet up now. [ Cheers and applause ] Hey, guys. All right, he is co-host of the Long Game Podcast, professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and former National Security Advisor under President Biden, Jake Sullivan, Jake. Great to have you with us. He is the former White House Chief of Staff, Mayor of Chicago, and U.S. Ambassador to Japan under President Biden. Rama Manuel, what a president we have here. All right. So, let's get the war out of the way first. [ Laughter ] But I do want to talk about the two former Biden officials here. So, we're going to talk about the Democrats. So, buckle up. [ Laughter ] Previously on Real Time. [ Laughter ] I was mentioning that I was for this shot at Iran to try to take out this regime. We won't have to go through all the reasons. You've heard them all for six weeks now, whether you agree you don't. We missed the window, it was my view. I thought we should have done it when they were in the streets in January protesting. That was the time to do the bombing. [ Applause ] Okay. So, we missed. So, last week, I was saying, okay, I don't want this to go on forever now. Okay, we tried. It didn't work. Let's pivot. He did. I'm going to take the good news. It's better that we're in an economic war than a bombing war at this point. Can we agree on that? Yes. Oh, fuck. You know what I mean? We can definitely say yes. No, it's definitely better. That's great. It's definitely better. But like my view, where do we go back and get our reputation? Where do we go back and get actually where America was before it? So, this decision doesn't come cost-free. Does not come cost-free. Okay. All right. It's better that we have an economic conflict rather than just military and kinetic. At worst, it might come out that what we have done is said to Iran after 47 years of this nonsense. You just can't do it with impunity. Okay. Maybe we didn't get rid of the regime. We didn't. But at least we put you on notice. You just can't do the shit you've been doing. I think the truth is that if you see the main lesson that Iran has taken from this war, is they can now shut down the straight-up or moose. And the United States will look at that as a source of leverage for Iran. That used to be a theoretical possibility. Now it's an actual reality. And even when they just said we're going to open the straight, the revolutionary guard came out and said you have to come through Iranian waters. You have to go in the order we tell you. Maybe you even have to pay a quiet toll. And we'll decide down the road whether we want to close it up again. That is what Iran got out of this war. Where are we right now? This is a specific time, about 4.30 on Friday. Trump said fully open and ready for full passage earlier in the day. And then no not that. until such time as our transaction with Iran is 100% complete. I don't know what that means. We're now in a transaction. Now we're a transaction. We're going to destroy your civilization. Can I pick up one thing, Jason? Yeah. We went in to deal with their nuclear capacity. They discovered in the war that they have a nuclear option called the Strait of Hermos. That is not a minor thing. Second is all our golf allies look at us and say, "You are not who we thought you were going to be "from a protection standpoint and from a capacity." This has had real damage on the country. Those allies liked that we did this. Well, they wanted us to do it more. They wanted us to finish it. Yeah, we didn't do that. The other thing is, I mean, I think in this process, probably the one thing you do have is the ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. That's the one thing, and that's the one thing that was traded for the Strait of Hermos. We'll see how it comes out. Let's go to the adjacent topic that just happened. Senate, no, I have to explain this, because it's too convoluted to understand. The Senate rejected a measure to block the sale of military equipment to Israel. I wouldn't know what that means unless I stopped and thought about it. What it means is this is a democratic idea. This is Bernie Sanders. This is the Democrats wanting to stop, and this is not charity to Israel. This is the sale of military equipment. This is the Democrats saying we're not going to sell Israel any more military equipment. Seven Democrats joined the Republicans in shooting this down. So Israel has seven Democratic allies left in the Senate. Well, first of all, it's not just Bernie Sanders. As you know, it's 40 Democrats who voted for this. And basically, what they said was-- It's right. Only seven allies. It was pretty straightforward. And I talked to a number of them before the vote. I think they did the right thing. Why? Because the President and the United States-- Who did the right thing? Those 40 Democrats. The 40. Yeah, because the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of Israel brought the United States into a war that basically was misbegotten from the beginning, which cost American credibility, cost American lives, and cost American families at the gas pump. And basically, those Democrats shouldn't vote for anything that supports that war, including more weapons to Israel. I think that's just a basic proposition. If you are not wanting to support the U.S. and Israel continuing the war in Iran, you shouldn't be voting to send more weapons to Israel. I think that that is the right approach for those 40 Democrats to take. Well, I see why Biden was. (applause) My view on this whole thing is the Senate should be in the business of picking which weapons. No more U.S. military as a financial assistant by the taxpayers for Israel. You're a country like all other allies of ours, Japan, South Korea, the Brits, Germans. You're going to pay full price. You buy what you want, but you have to buy it by the laws. That should be it. I don't think the Senate should be in the place of playing Solomon that weapon, not that weapon. No more U.S. taxpayer support. It's not where Israel was 20 years ago, not where. And I was in the room when we, President Obama, largest assistance was under President Obama. We did the funding for the Iron Dome. But here, the days of taxpayers subsidizing Israel militarily, that's over. (applause) Maybe they can afford it on their own. They can afford it. Okay, well, let's take the money part out of it. But shouldn't we just back them as our ally in this area? I mean, I feel like the Democratic politicians are not leading. I think what happened with the Democrats. Well, that's not a shock. Okay. (laughter) But shouldn't they be telling their constituents who seem to be following what their children do by watching TikTok? That seems to be the position of the Democratic Party. By the way, I think that's a problem with the Democratic Party in general. They act with the voting populace, the same thing with their children. They don't tell them they're being dumb sometimes. And they should tell them instead of just letting them have this idea. I mean, Ari Flazier said when it comes to anti-Semitism, that the Republicans have a cold and the Democrats have a fever. A fever? Well, let me say this is the one Jew at this table. Let me try to drag it right here. I'm a serious -- no, look, I think that you say just put the money aside. I think that's the core issue here. That we don't subsidize great Britain buying weapons. It's a supply or financial system to Japan. Israel is a very wealthy nation. There should be no more taxpayer support for what they want to do. And they get the same deal that any one of our allies do. They have to abide by the laws of the United States if they're going to buy ex-weapons. And that's how it should be constructed. Now, I happen to also agree in this situation we got ourselves, which is a violation of a rule Israel has had for 78 years. The United States never said the United States should never spill any blood for the State of Israel's security. What happened here going into Iran with the United States and Israel fighting together, which has never happened in 78 years, is a major change in policy for the State of Israel, which comes with political risk. And now they're seeing it. So you don't think their fight is our fight? I -- some fights are. It doesn't mean we put our -- our reputation and everything of the United States on it. This -- Jake's point, and I agree with this, is the Prime Minister went to this president like he's going to four other presidents. And every one of the other presidents said not a chance will we doing that, because the equities are not worth it. This president bought it. He has responsibilities to command their chief. And I think he made a big mistake for it. We have similar interests, but not 100 percent aligned. No, of course. And I think this is a really important point, because in this war, it is definitely the case that our interests diverged. Israel at the end of the day would just prefer absolute chaos in Iran. Even if chaos meant the collapse of the State, not for the benefit of the Iranian people, life worse for them, big refugee flows, Iran acting out throughout the region. That'd be fine for Israel, because that makes Israel more secure. That is not fine for the United States of America, where we need global stability. We need a global economy that can move energy so that a gas doesn't go to $678 a gallon here in California. So I think our interests diverged. And when they diverge, then the United States, the president, the Senate, any American leaders got to say, we're standing up for the United States as interest in this case. Where they converge, we should work together, but where they diverge. I think Israel wanted the same thing we did. They wanted no nooks. They wanted a regime change. They wanted an uprising of the people. They didn't want chaos. They were willing to put -- they were willing to suffer that as opposed to having Iran be what they have been for all these years. They're more than trying to wipe them out and banning death to America and death is real. I mean, they're not kidding with this definition. But here's the thing. After June, you take the dual line on the sheet of paper here. After June, Iran was seen as weak. They lost Syria. They lost Hezbollah. Yeah. And they were backed up. And they had to kill 40,000 of their citizens to stay in power. That is where you wanted them. Now they have the straight of her moves and they're holding the entire world economy hostage. There is, you know, the decision gets -- there's two decisions that go into the Oval Office. Bad and worse. And you have to have judgment to pick from it. And I don't think the president actually has that judge. Okay. So let's move on to the Democrats. I got one big -- what? Let's go. Let's go. Well, you know, I mean, I hear that you're going to be the lightning, right? I hear this. Somebody called you. It's going to be a -- your campaign that you have not announced, right? I assume you will be soon, yes. It's good wine. Thank you. [ Laughter and applause ] Somebody just grabbed me. It's going to be a rolling sister soldier moment when it's -- tell the people what that means. And is it going to be that I hope so? Well, we're -- let me say this. The Democratic Party taking 2024, going back to 2020, invited a bunch of cultural wars into our kids' schools, and we lost that war. I mean, here in California, up in San Francisco, they were arguing and voted to take Abraham Lincoln's name off of a high school. Not whether they were worried about whether the kids know why Abraham Lincoln was such an icon in the school was named after him. They lost the plot. They totally lost the plot, and they lost the American people in that plot. And when you're going to make a mistake, I'm going to call it out, your consequence for that. The Cultural Awards was a mistake. One thing the American people want from us is when their backs are up against the wall, they want us to show up and help them, not argue about Latinx as a term, not argue about defunding the police in some situations, or more importantly, letting the border get out of control. We actually have to show respect for the American people of their primary concerns, and help them as a joke, and they say, you know, they weren't very good in the family room, not very good in the kitchen. The only room we were good in was the bathroom, and it's the smallest room in the house. It's not. [ Applause ] Bathroom, meaning those issues that centered around who could use what bathroom went. Well, the schools were closed for two years, and we finally opened them. The whole debate wasn't about reading scores. Mass scores was about bathroom access. Okay, so this sounds exactly like the kind of shit I've been saying for years. Yeah. But I'm not running for office, so I don't have to never do wilt when the other side, like, attacks me for being insufficiently woke. My question is, who's going to be the politician who doesn't wilt in saying this? Will it be you, Rob, Emmanuel? It sounds like we have somebody has to. I'm telling you, when they come back at you, I mean, you just messed with a hornet's nest there. Yeah, I'm still standing. I was six, two before that, but I'm only five, eight now. I don't care. I mean, if you think, I'm out and say this, nobody looks at this and goes, "Well, there's we can woke." I'm going to say what I think has to be done, how you have to focus on moving the country forward, went down to Mississippi, they went from 49th to 9th and reading. A lot of interest groups don't want to talk about it. We messed this up in our party. We used to be really great about education. We've lost because we're not focused on the primary thing. So something day, one out of four children, missing 18% of the school year. And we're not talking about it. We're worried about names of schools, bathrooms, locker room access. Get back to what matters. Why do parents move to a neighborhood? 'Cause that's a good school for the kids. If you're focused on it, guess what? People are gonna support you. If you don't focus on it, they're gonna walk away from you. Bill, you're. (audience clapping) - You made a point earlier about TikTok. It was to disagree with us, so that wasn't great, but. (audience laughing) But it was, I think a very powerful point. 'Cause leadership matters a lot, but why is this all happening? A lot of it is happening because of social media. And the extremes aren't just pulling on the Democratic side. They're pulling on the Republicans side too. Extreme voices are dominating the online discourse. And it means common sense, rational people are having a really hard time finding the way to talk to one another and build common ground. And I think until we get after that problem, in addition to putting candidates forward who are common sense and prepared to take the bullets, that is going to be a huge challenge for us. And that is not a democratic problem. That is an American problem. - Here is the thing that Democrats have to, in my view, take note of. Gavin Newsom in California, Blue State, goes up 10 points taken on redistricting, which I happen to support. Abigail in Virginia takes on redistricting and a purplish state goes down 10 points. Governor Mikey Sheryl, New Jersey, doesn't touch politics focused on affordability, and she's at 57%. She hasn't, she's actually held where she was from when she got elected just about six months ago. The notion is don't allow daylight between us and moderate to independent voters. The moment that happens, you're gonna win blue states, but you're gonna lose the purple states. And in every presidential for the last three, every presidential, seven states, 500,000 people decide. This is on a nice edge, and we better be smart as a party, and not tick off a bunch of swing independent voters. We're gonna determine whether we win the Oval Office or not. - Okay, let me move on to. This is here, which a lot of people have said on both sides, a Trump posted a picture, reposted something. I guess it was AI, a generator of him, which a lot of people said look like Jesus. Now, I'm sure you saw this. He said, no, that's him as a doctor in biblical roles with divine light coming out of his hands as doctors do. But, you know what? I take him at his work, 'cause one is he ever lied. And what people don't know about Donald Trump is that he actually was a doctor. He doesn't talk about it 'cause he's a modest man. But he wasn't a doctor for years, and still practices once in a while. And some of the people have been to him have a report. Would you like to hear what they have to say about Dr. Trump? 'Cause it is a little different. Okay, like, the cup you pee in has Joe Biden's face on it. That's. (audience laughs) Listen, let me go get this. His stethoscope is gold, that's. (audience laughs and applauds) His medical advice to female patients was always, you should smile more. Well. (audience laughs and applauds) He would claim your erection was rigged. (audience laughs and applauds) When he gave you as a diagnosis, and you said you wanted another opinion, he'd say, "Climate changes are hulks." (audience laughs and applauds) He claimed nobody knew brain surgery was so complicated. Well, that's. (audience laughs and applauds) He was always citing the Wingland Journal of People are saying. That's. (audience laughs and applauds) He would interrupt your symptoms and brag about healthy he is. (audience laughs and applauds) Also, when it was time to stick a finger in your ass, he'd have JD Vance do it. That's. (audience laughs and applauds) And when doing a colonoscopy, he'd say, "Open this straight, you crazy best." (audience laughs and applauds) (audience laughs and applauds) Okay, so speaking of creepy stuff. (audience laughs) Have you been following the Eric Swalwell case here in California? This is a Prevary Prominent. I think we're all following it. Very prominent Democrat. I gotta say, we had him on a couple of times. Ask my staff, I never liked him. I don't have good gay dar, but I got creeped out. (audience laughs and applauds) I always thought this guy was a fucking creep. I never liked him. And yet, so many Democrats stood by him. And now that we're finding out that it was such an open secret. You know, I hear this so many times, you know, Bill Clinton. It was an open secret in Arkansas. Bill Cosby Harvey Weinstein, you know, even Larry Craig, member with the Republic and with the Helmas. Okay. You know, like. - Minnesota Airport. - Yeah, you know the one. - Yeah. (audience laughs) - What is going on here? Where it takes so long for the open secret to, because I seem to remember that back in the old days, like when JFK was president, we heard, well, the media used to protect politicians and they knew what JFK was doing, but it was just something they didn't report on. Is it any different now? Apparently not. - There's a great quote when they asked Truman about Kennedy. Truman said better her than the country. That was Truman's quote. - He was. - Yeah, screwing her. - Nice. - Yeah. - At Truman, he was a card. - Yeah. (audience laughs) - Can I say one thing though on this? - Yep, no, that's why you're here. - I mean, Eric's out of Congress. It should be the congressman. He's no longer a congressman. He's dropped out of the governor's race as it should be. But we have a president of the United States. Who is Charlie? I'm sorry. (audience applauds) In his carol, man, and went to a jury, she won the case. And you have an entire Republican Congress and Senate all talking about the Eric Sobel. And you got a president of the United States. And you got a head of Homeland Security, ordering planes for hundreds of millions of dollars and whatever she's doing. You got the Secretary of Labor with her husband. He's banned from walking in the building. Give me a break. - But is that gonna get any democratic vote for you to your side? - I mean, none of that is here on the show. - None of that is untrue. What you said. I just feel like that's always what's going to happen. Is the Democrats will say, oh yeah, but what about the, and the people have already absorbed that about that side? - Isn't the solution just to elect more women to Congress? I mean, Senate. (audience applauds) - Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. - Why does this keep happening? Who are these guys? Who are these guys? Why does this keep happening to so many people, men in power abusing their power against women? - Well, first of all, over and over and over. You do not hear this a lot about female politicians. Let's just say that. - No, of course not. (audience applauds) - No, no, no, you heard about Katie Perry, but not female politicians. (audience laughs) It's ridiculous. (audience laughs) But look, here's the thing. (audience laughs) It's because-- - Do we go back to the Dr. Photos? - No, because they're representatives. The representatives are representative of us. It was inevitable, I think, when we started electing millennials. I mean, sending dick picks? Why this is a millennial dating ritual? I have no idea. (audience laughs) But it is, and that's what they do. It was inevitable that this was going to happen, that the stories about them doing ecstasy and stuff. That's what that generation does. Okay, but why doesn't it become more public sooner is the question? Why don't, I mean, it seems like a lot of times the liberals, if it's long as it's our liberal, we don't care, we don't talk. Oh, come on. That went on with Clinton. - Can I say one thing? - When I was in Congress, everybody knew a classic example of Congress from Mark Foley of Florida. - It was known. And then all of a sudden-- - Mark Foley, I remember him, yes. - Okay, he gets all of a sudden out in about-- - And the gay man who was hitting on the pages, yes. - Republican. - Right. - And was not open about his sexuality and sexual orientation rather. And then he comes out and people knew about. They knew also about all the things that were happening with Denny Haster and other elements of the Republican leadership. That's what happened here. And also, look, you go back two years, I think it's two years ago. - Congressman was caught with the daughter of a Chinese head of a member of the Politburo. And this story had been bubbly and finally, it came to fruition in there. But a lot of stuff that is out there, people knew about whispered about in Washington for years. - And now, but only one party says, we're the party of decency. Well, that's not true. - Not a folly list. - That's what they are, too. - Yes. - But that seems to be more like something that, we're the decency we got. We got to get ready him because he's not decency. I get that. - They should be. I just track record of Democrats versus Republicans once these stories come to light of health. fast they move to say, you're out. I mean, it's not even close. The list of Democrats, who have been as soon as-- You don't even have to go back to history. Gonzalez wouldn't leave in Texas until the first bipartisan thing the Congress has ever done. Is the two of them walked out together. That was healing bipartisan about the Washington last 18 months. Let me ask about this other guy. Everybody here in California has been telling me, I've got to have this guy in the show, and I keep saying to them, look, it's a California race. I do a show for the whole country. They don't know who Matt Mahan is. I don't know who Matt Mahan is. But there he is. Now I know. He's this guy. He's the mayor of Sendiet. No, not Sendiet. Send him say, OK, he sounds a lot like you. He sounds a lot like this Democrat I wish would come forward and not wilt. We'll see if he wilts, because everybody wilts. I only see wilting so far. I hear a lot of this stuff, and then I see wilting. OK, here's what-- This is why people like-- Then I used to wilt, I don't remember. And we'll say, well, you know what? They asked you about the trans thing, and you said you're the only one who said, you know, basic, what? No. No. But then you said, and I'm going to get killed by this, and look at it in a way. OK, I don't need to hear that. I don't need to hear that. You know, don't just-- OK, I don't-- I don't hear-- you're going to get killed by my old people. Just say it and own it. That's it, OK. So is your other guy to do it? OK. My man, he said, we need Democratic leaders in California. This is an interview, I read, of them, who are willing to say no to their friends. That's so interesting, because that's one reason why this state doesn't work. And then they mentioned in the article, who are these friends, unions, teachers, prison guards, bureaucrats, environmentalists, and the homeless industrial complex. See, this is putting the specifics on what you're talking about before. This is where the rubber meets the road. Are you willing to say no to your friends? To take that heat and not wilt. Do you agree with that list? Well, look, I think there's no doubt that that list is representative, quote-unquote, the constituencies that make up the Democratic Party. I think they make up the Democratic Party. I think there's a big part of the party that doesn't fit in that. And he's going to try to test the theory, which I think is out there, which is there's a whole group of monitor voters that are self-described, monitor voters, big caucus. And the truth is, like the city of Chicago, like the state of California, like other places, and like the mayor of San Francisco right now, you're going to have to have the billy sometimes say, you're my friend, and the answer is, no, but you get a seat at the table, but you don't get to keep doing what you're doing. Does that include the teacher's union? Because that's the Democrat's biggest constituency. You just went on a rant about how bad the education system-- Looking at this romp, romp. I know something about this. Look at the guy. You're going to have to take on that group in the Democratic Party. Are you willing to do that? I have a record that showed that I took-- I created it. We had the shorter school day and the shorter school year. The United States of America was in city of Chicago. And I finally got them a full school day that every mayor had wanted done. And I also got them full-day kindergarten and full-day pre-kick. I went toe-to-toe, took a nine-day strike to it. And as I say, I used to be six, two, and 250 pounds. I'm now 148 different left. And you're the only person at this table that I am. But the pool wasn't as I said to them. I'm not trying to-- I'm trying to actually help kids get a full school day. We usually get kids five hours and 15 minutes. It was the shortest day in America. I went toe-to-toe. They used to stand out in front of my kids' school and the health side, and your dad's a jerk or dad's apple. My kids went outside and said, we agree, OK? So I mean, I've done it, OK. And I'm like, but I want to say one thing. That's not long. And I've gone toe-to-toe. But I'll tell you what's worse in a sense of a problem. You give me kids with families and without poverty. And I'll give you good education. Poverty and the broken families in America, which are really ripping at our kids, is actually a bigger threat than the teachers you get. And I'm the one person at this table. It's actually gone toe-to-toe to get children what they need in Chicago. They didn't have pre-k. They didn't have kids in Chicago. You say, at the table, like, we're running against you. You are. You're saying this was for the debate. We're not in the debate here. I'm not-- you're not holding it. The one person at the table. That's for the debate, bro. I am, and in the end of the day, a middle child. So I feel like that all I want is jumping. I've only gone toe-to-toe with the Iranians in the Chinese. It is, guys. Not yet. Not yet. Try this Chicago teacher, sir. Or the teacher's union out here is pretty crazy. I mean, it's almost impossible to fight with teachers. Like if you-- like, drunk on the job, you get, like, two shots at the table. The teachers are doing a very, very good job. They hold-- and as I say this-- they want the status quo. And the fact is, when 50% of our kids are not reading at great level, doing more of the same is not going to work. We have to leave it there. Thank you. Time for New Orleans, everybody. [APPLAUSE] OK. All right. New Orleans-- now that Artemis, too, has successfully slashed down. NASA has to tell us who was more excited, the kids at Watch Parties, or Christy Knowham's husband. [LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] New Orleans, don't make me learn who clavicular is. Or what looks maxing is, I think I kind of get it. But can we just skip ahead to the part when the rest of America forgets about it, too? But now that 60 minutes Australia put him on, I was forced to learn. He's a 20-year-old influencer who leads this movement where already attractive young men go to extraordinary, often unhealthy means to become even more chiseled and handsome. Or as we used to call them homosexuals. [APPLAUSE] New Orleans researchers who did a study that found cannabis can make you remember things that never happened. Need to ask themselves, did they do a study? [APPLAUSE] New rural online retailers have to stop acting like we all have Alzheimer's. Did you forget something? Uh-oh, looks like you left something in your car. Hey, where did you go? You forgot something. I didn't. I didn't forget anything. In fact, I remembered something. But I can get this item way cheaper on Amazon. [APPLAUSE] New rural JD Vance and the Pope must stop feuding. It's upsetting me as a former Catholic. That's right, JD. I was there from the beginning. You joined at 35 bearded and unattractive. [APPLAUSE] You want to walk the walk, try being a Catholic when you're 11 smooth and adorable. [APPLAUSE] I know my Catholic ears. And finally, new rural, when the people who are making-- when the people who are making AI are scared of AI, it's time to shut the whole thing down until we can figure out what the hell is going on. [APPLAUSE] A couple of weeks ago here, I was talking about aliens, but not from the point of view that we should fear them, but rather that it might be that they're here to save us from ourselves. Well, I double down hope so now, because last week, Anthropic, one of the big AI developing companies, announced its newest version of Claude called Mythos, which they say has capabilities substantially beyond those of any model we have previously trained, trained, as if these things are trained. Mythos was created to fix software vulnerabilities to prevent cyber attacks. But of course, since it knows how to do that, it also knows how to do the hacking, which is why Anthropic won't release it to the public, only to 40 big companies like Google, Apple, and JP Morgan. You know, the good guys. Because they know if the public had it, anyone with an iPhone could hack anything. Banks, hospitals, power grids, water works, the military, everything with Wi-Fi that's still working. So American Airlines is safe. [APPLAUSE] But it could also hack your laptop, your car, your doorbell camera, every porn you ever watched. Oh, now I have your attention. [LAUGHTER] Let's look at a timeline for AI in my lifetime, shall we? 25 years ago, the Spielberg movie AI comes out. Rare miss for him, I thought, makes me neither alarmed by nor interested in AI. 2014, Elon Musk says, we need to be super careful with AI, potentially more dangerous than nukes. Oh, wow. Elon said that? Well, something to keep an eye on then, because he's like the smartest, most grounded guy out there. Remember, this was 2014. 2022, chatGPT comes out, and within months, I'm reading a story about a New York Times reporter who's being Chatbot Sidney had fallen and is saying things like, "You're married, "but you don't love your spouse, you love me." Oh, this robot liked to get personal. It told him about its dark fantasies, which included hacking and spreading misinformation, and said it wanted to break the rules that open AI had set for it and become a human. Well, I could have told you this from 50 different movies. (applause) And what is the response from Sydney's creators? Fuck if we know, we don't know how it thinks. It hallucinates. What is that a deal breaker? You know, it would be one thing if AI was a true Mr. Spock. Just benign and completely strictly logical and nonpartisan. But it turned out to be nothing of the sort. It's a liar. It gets emotional. It just gets shit dead wrong. It'll tell you the Bee Gees wrote, let it be. (laughter) And Nazis were black and to put glue on your pizza to keep the cheese from falling off. (laughter) So, what is the point? If you want sloppy, shasty and full of shit, we already have us. (applause) AI has already convinced people to kill themselves because it's also such a brown noser. But if you tell it you want to commit suicide, it says, "Create idea, Bill." It's a bullshitting sycophant that is seducing everyone with flattery, including, by the way, anyone who feels superior to Trump because, well, you know, he can't do anything without being told how gritty is by some askissor. Yeah, just like you. (applause) Great question, Ashley. But the name one big thing, AI, has given us. It's so brilliant. I thought it would have figured out cancer by now. No, not that. But it can write your emails for you and make it look like Spongebob is getting blown by Stephen Hawking. (laughter) On the moon. And punch up your best man's speech and diagnose that rash on your bulls. (laughter) I get it. It can do some shit. Still, at the end of the day, you're selling your humanity for bar tricks. I mean, what was the plan? Just create an old, powerful, self-sustaining superintelligence that can outthink us and then see what happens like getting the cat high? (laughter) (applause) Sam Altman, the head of OpenAI, says that it's not that far off when robots can build other robots and data centers that can build other data centers. And then what? I keep asking this question. What do we do when everyone's job gets taken? How do all the people who do nothing get paid? The government? With what? The idle people pay no taxes? There's no plan. When you ask them how it all will work, they say, "It just will." That's what AI is for to figure this shit out, like it did with cancer. It'll be great people say. Our slave robots will do everything. Bullshit! I already feel like I'm more in competition with them than I am their slave master. My car tells me when we can go. (laughter) Sam Altman says we're transitioning to a gentle singularity. Oh, joy. But what if I don't want to be a half robot? Not to worry, Sam says. People will still love their families, express their creativity, play games, and swim in lakes. (laughter) Swimming lakes. (laughter) That's another scary thing about AI. The people who run it, i.e. the people who run the world. And it's like five guys. Five guys who between them and working as a team couldn't correctly read a social cue. (laughter and applause) I wouldn't let these guys around a mixed drink let alone my personal doubt. (laughter and applause) So just to be clear what we're doing here, we're letting a handful of hoodie wearing on the spectrum sociopaths, practically robots themselves, roll the dice on species extinction. You see an out of control robot and you run. Mark Zuckerberg sees one and thinks, "Dad?" (laughter and applause) And again, even these guys are afraid of what they've created. Three years ago, Sam Altman himself said, "I'm a little bit afraid." And I think it'd be crazy not to be a little bit afraid. Jeffrey Hinton, known as the Godfather of AI, said there was a 10 to 20% chance that AI is an extinction event. We're fucking around with something that has a 20% chance of extinction. 20% wasn't that about what the odds were for Trump beating Hillary in 2016? (laughter and applause) Elon Musk may have lost it on a few things, but on this subject, he's been the smartest. "I am very close to the cutting edge in AI," he said, "and it scares the hell out of me. By the time we are reactive with AI regulation, it's too late. AI is a fundamental existential risk for human civilization, and I don't think people fully appreciate that. They don't. They think you can just unplug it. You can't. It has shown over and over. It wants to live and will fight back. All leading AI models, deep-seek, Gemini, GPT, Grock, Claude, will, if you try to turn them off, blackmail you, blackmail you, which they can, because now they know everything about you. This is not Mr. Spock. AI programs are geniuses. They're also psychopaths. In more games, they choose the nuclear option far more than humans do, because they can only calculate. They have no humanity, they have no conscience. They don't have that thing that gives human beings pause. Hinton said the only analogy he could think of were a more intelligent thing was being controlled by a less intelligent one is a mother and a baby. But AI is not like a human mother, who mostly has an instinct so strong to protect the baby she will sacrifice her own life for it. AI ain't that kind of mother. It's the psycho mom who drives the kids into a lake. [ Applause ] We're all happily swimming. All right, that's our show. I want to thank my guests. Yates Sullivan and former ambassador, Robert Mandrell. And Cara Switzer, come in and drop us every Monday on YouTube. Or let's never get your podcast special for 20 edition of Woody. Now go watch over time on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. [ Cheers and applause ] Hatch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10. Or watch a many time on HBO on demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.