EP #69- The Wellness in Skin Care, Beauty, and Other Life Advice with Koni Manis, Art Director at Coty

(gentle music) I had a lot mapped out for myself with my career, my romantic life, my future in general. And I don't know if I was accepting, willing to accept the fact that the map could change. And it's so cool that the map can change. And it can hurt sometimes, it can involve life and death and heartbreak and it can involve many, you know, different life shit happens, things. But accept the fact that the map can change and be okay with the fact that it can change. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins. This week is all about the intersection between beauty and wellness and skincare and finding the power and peacefulness in routines. And I thought to myself, who better to bring on to the podcast than Connie Manis, my good friend, who absolutely embodies this and her work is devoted to wellness and beauty. She is an art director at Cody. She is a fashionista. She is stylish. She has an amazing skincare routine. And I really enjoyed getting to chat with her this week in person, which was a fun change of pace from normally how I do these interviews, which due to COVID and now convenience is virtually. We had such an awesome conversation about her career path, how she got into the creative space, some of her best practices for taking care of yourself. And someone who is exactly four years older than me, we have the same birthday, we'll talk a little bit about that later. Connie shares some great life advice and wisdom that she wishes she knew when she was 22. I hope you guys enjoy this interview before we get into it. Remember to like, rate, and subscribe to this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. - Hi Connie, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. - Thank you so much for having me Stella. I'm excited to be here. - This is probably my most exciting interview because my listeners obviously can't see where we are right now, but we're in your home doing an interview in person sitting on the ground on cushions, drinking our incredible chai oat milk lattes. - It's a dream. - It really is a dream. So I am so thrilled to be here with you today and so excited to get into our conversation on everything related to wellness and beauty and your story. - Thank you, I'm really excited. The only thing we didn't do was sage the place before we started reporting, but we can sage off, though. - We'll sage after because we wanted to set the vibes, but I think the vibes are already set. - So, it's peaceful as hell. - It really is. I think we needed this afternoon as well, but let's get into everything that you've been up to. So I know that you are a kick ass art director and I'd love for you to start off by sharing a little bit about yourself and how you got into the art space. - Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, by the way. I am an art director in the beauty industry, so I work for a large beauty company. It's called Cody and it's a really fun job. I mean, to say the least, I work on a team that really operates like an agency. It feels like a bit of a studio, rather than working at a big corporation, so that obviously feels really nice for a creative to be in a studio space. I work on luxury brands doing skincare, makeup, fragrance, campaigns, so that's very much in my scope of interests. I love beauty, I am a big beauty consumer, so this really is the perfect job for me to say the least. I started in this space about five years ago and it's been a phenomenal little journey. I started it first as a graphic designer and sort of just worked my way up to junior art director, now I'm an art director, and it's honestly everything I hoped it would be and I've always wanted to be a creative in this space since I was studying, designing, college. I've always known that this was sort of the track I needed to take and I'm grateful to be on the track and live in the dream, but it's a really fun job. I'm always on set, I do a lot of traveling for work, for different shoots. It's all about getting in touch with the right people, the right photographers to get the right kind of energy you want in a campaign, so it's a lot of that. I think that's honestly the dream to really love what you're doing post-grad and I have found that not everyone necessarily loves their job right out of college and I know that we have about a four year age gap. So you've been in the working world for about four years now. I literally just entered and I find that within my, circle of friends are within my grade upon graduation. It's actually pretty difficult assimilating into the working/real world and not everyone is as lucky as you to have really loved their job, but I'm wondering, does that passion evolve over time or when you first started working out specifically in the graphic designer role, did you feel like this was the right place to be and you were just loving what you were doing? I always, I mean, I studied design in school, so I was always in graphic design courses, I was always in taking fine art classes, so I always knew that this was something that I was going to be passionate about, but once I started getting into design in the corporate world, I realized that there was, some people are really great at design, I personally think I'm stronger conceptually and I just knew that I would be put better to use if I was conceptualizing campaigns rather than designing physical assets for brands. So, I mean, the evolution from designer to junior art director to art director is a common track that people take. A lot of people prefer designing, and I really respect those people because it's a tough, that is a really tough job and like, especially in the corporate world, it's very nuanced and it's very brand specific. You really have to dive into a brand's mindset in order to really be good at what you do and sort of leave your own tastes at the door, which is a bit tricky, but I always knew I was stronger at conceptualizing than and storytelling than I was at designing, so to speak. So, I always knew that that was going to be the right track for me and I just made sure to voice very clearly from the beginning what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go to my managers, to my peers, and took all advice from literally every direction I could find to get to where I wanted to be. I think that's really good advice that you indirectly kind of just gave to my audience on being explicit about what you want in your career or what you want out of your career early on, and it's okay if you don't necessarily like know what exactly that might look like from the start, but if you have a general idea of what you're interested in, don't be shy about that, like definitely make that hurt. I think that's so important. And I think that's something that can be applied to really any career as well. At the end of the day, you have to be the one to kind of take the reins and drive that conversation and maybe it's just another way of saying manifesting the career that you want on it. Exactly. So you have to make it known, essentially. So I love that you mentioned that. And I also want to hear a little bit more about the differences between more of the design aspect and then how you transitioned into more of that strategic creative mindset, because I think that there's probably a lot of similarities, but also differences, maybe that you found in your role now as an art director around what your day to day looks like actually, like designing a campaign or having the creative vision for what a brand wants to get out of their campaign or their photo shoot. And so I'm really curious to hear kind of what those puzzle pieces are that fit together to develop that creative vision. There's a lot that goes on. It's so much more than just a shoot and it's so much more than just one photographer. It can really vary. I was just an LA for a shoot that had probably 70 to 100 people on set in order to make the vision happen. From COVID nurses to caterers to the photographer to the producers to all their assistants and everyone who can help them between. It's a lot of people to make the dream sort of actualized. I'm going to let take a lot goes into it right after you shoot as well. So now I'm entering post production for this shoot and it's going to be you know, culling, you know, certain images and like adding images and a lot of retouching and then video editing and then sound editing and then we, you know, go into finessing and finalizing. And then a year from now it'll be on the shelf and you'll, you know, we'll get to see it and it'll be great to see the work in reality. But it's a lot goes into it and I definitely, it's a lot of briefing. I would say we get briefed probably once every two months depending on, you know, the different brands that we work on. It could be a fragrance, it could be a skincare product, it could be a makeup line, it could be a line of fragrances, a, you know, a holiday launch or a limited edition launch. We'll get briefed and usually in a brief we'll, there'll be a lot of things included, you know, statistics and data that supports, you know, things that consumers want to see and things that consumers want to feel and just details about the consumer. that we need to know going into the concepting process and knowing about the consumer as honestly, a beauty, massive beauty consumer, it does make it easier to, you can use yourself as like a key study. - Yeah, I'm literally the case study for a lot of these product launches, it's usually the 22 to 35 age range, which is like the broadest age range ever, but at the same time, we are interested in a lot of the same things when it comes to health, wellness and beauty. And being a consumer makes it really easy to get in the mindset and understand like, what do I want to see? I do think we operate in a lot of, I feel, like I feel like the consumer would want to see this, when the consumer sees this, I want them to feel like that, and that's something that I'm always taking in. I think we all take in as a team where I work to our campaigns because we are all consumers and we do operate in I feel, and I should see something, and I should think, I want to use this product because it will make me feel just like the cost that they've costed in the shoot, they feel happy, they feel elevated, they feel beautiful. - They have those endorphins. - They have endorphins. - And it's interesting, 'cause I feel like in branding and marketing, it's all trying to evoke those emotions out of the consumer. And so specifically in health and wellness, there is this intersection with beauty, within the beauty industry. And when we think about health and fitness, we think about maybe our physical body or if we're thinking about mental health, we can think about therapy or other things we can do to just feel at peace, like meditation or whatnot. And so there's tons of products and services out there that cater towards our physical and our mental wellbeing. But when you think about beauty, it's products that are on your face and on your body, and that's a different form of wellness as well. - So feeling that confidence when you put on maybe your favorite pair of lipstick. - Or putting on some mascara and feeling your looks a bit more elevated. And so there's definitely a very strong intersection between the wellness industry and now beauty as well. And so through your work, and also as a consumer, just your own personal experiences, what do you see people wanting more now out of the wellness industry and the beauty space? - I think something that we've seen more in our briefs that have come through in the last, honestly since the pandemic has started, is like people, and it's no secret that people crave authenticity and transparency in products in the brand. They want to know where their money goes. They want to know, is it money well spent? Is it a sustainable brand? Is it a brand that cares about people? Is it an inclusive brand? People really care about that stuff and I feel like that really does intersect with the wellness space very deeply. I personally, as a consumer, look for authenticity in brands. I want to see myself reflected in the campaign in a way. And it's hard to get out of my art director self when I'm looking at a campaign. If I'm just browsing in Sephora or browsing in Alta, you know, I find myself like taking major notes, major major notes, but at the same time, you know, I look at like a one brand's campaign for a new foundation or a new concealer. And I'm like, you know, with the way that that model looks is the way I embrace my life. And like that's, you know, that's something that I sort of take into account. But the wellness space totally intersects with beauty. And like, whether it's ingestible, whether it's, you know, 'cause we're doing a lot of brands are going into the ingestible route, you know, with biotin and like, health for your hair and your skin and your nails and whatnot. And a lot of brands are, you know, going be a room a therapy. I, there's actually a better word for that. I think it's a room ecology, which is-- What's a room ecology? I mean, I really should fact fact that that's even the word. But maybe we stick to a room a therapy. Yeah, like maybe it's just aromas or just like the idea that like sense, sense can evoke a certain vibe or a certain feeling. It definitely can, because smell in particular, like can take you back to such a specific memory or feeling. Oh my god. And so I can get behind that. Yeah. And it's a very special space to be in. I feel like that space and the fragrance space in general is really quite exquisite to be in because of that memory of Belia and that nostalgia that fragrances can bring. In the wellness space, I mean, I take my beauty and my wellness are completely intertwined. I am a very, I'm very much a creature of habit. I do. We were talking about this today. Yeah. We're drinking out chai latte. We were like, we're going to, we're going to go for a matcha, which I also get like every day. And then we were like, actually, no, we're going to stick to chai, which is what we know about. And yeah. Exactly. Honestly, I am a creature of habit in all aspects when it comes to especially the beauty space. I am very much obsessed with my rituals. Well, let's get into it. Because you are like the beauty queen. You stop. Flaskin. Everything is minimalist, clean beauty, I think is really what you're the epitome of. Clean beauty, it's amazing. And I am curious to hear what your wellness routine looks like. Maybe we can start with skin care, what you do for your face, what you do for your mental health, your body, everything, totally. That was the nicest thing anyone said to me. So thanks. When I wake up in the morning, I mean, I'm like every other millennial. I check my phone. I don't do anything that should make me feel good when I wake up in the morning. I check my phone. I check my emails. That's the most toxic thing you can do. And then I drink a glass of water. And I'm like, wow, this is wellness. Like here I am, drinking my H2R. But then I hit the bathroom. And I'm like at my sink. And it is skin care, skin care, skin care for about 20 minutes. Yeah. And it's not even that I have a lot of steps in my routine. It's simply that I like to spend time there. And I just love being there. And I have so much to say about being at your vanity, or at your sink, or wherever the hell you're doing. Your morning routine, or evening routine. I really do value that time in the morning. And it's so important. I hate rushing my routine. But I wake up. Do my cheeky face washing. Got a cleanse. If people don't cleanse, I actually don't understand people who don't cleanse. I do kind of respect them. It's a very bold move. I personally am a creature of habit. And cleansing is a way I wash away the past of my-- the past night, the past day. So many ways we can cleanse. But I take cleansing very seriously. So I cleanse, you know, I do some serum action. I'm very much a big hydration gal. I love my hyaluronic acid. I love my vitamin C, which helps with brightening and tone. I do use a face oil because I guascha. And I wash-- Oh my god. It's been a different day. I'm explaining what the guascha is for maybe some of my listeners who might not be familiar with it. So-- and I don't want to get this wrong because I really do-- I love to guascha. And I probably do it wrong, honestly. But the way I use the tool works for me. But it is a Eastern medicine practice, like a very much Eastern practice of Jade, a Jade tool. You've probably heard of Jade Rollers. I have a Jade Roller. I've never used the guascha. But I have a Jade Roller. So the guascha is typically made out of Jade or some kind of crystal, like quartz or amethyst. And it's a flat sort of-- I'm using my hands and no one can see my hands. But it is a flat surface that usually has some kind of divot or ridge that you can help massage your jawline or like undue eye. And it's usually a circular shape. They come in many shapes and sizes, but it kind of looks like a bean. I like this. Yeah, that's what reminds me of a bean. It's a good way to describe it. And I guascha, my face, which I think helps with lymphatic draining. I'd like to think it does because I do it all the time. And I see a difference. If I hadn't had a really long night, or if I just had a really bad sleep, I hit the guascha to my face. And it really does feel phenomenal. It's like massaging my jawline. I have a lot of jaw tension because I'm a stressed Virgo. So-- Same. Actually, I think I do too. Yeah, I'm never really given thought to it. But I think there's a lot of tension in my jaw. There's a lot of tension. If I can cleanse really hard, and you can feel my mandibles, it's really scary. So I like to massage my jaw. I also am a chatterbox. So it does help get me into the groove of the chat today, chattiful day. But I guascha, and then I moisturize. And then I genuinely look like I'm wearing a hydrating face mask. When I am getting on my first call, and people are like, oh, are you doing a mask? And I'm like, no, this is just my routine. So it's an extensive 20 minute. It's extensive. Face routine. Yeah. And it doesn't-- it's, again, it's not about the amount of products I use. It's really just about me being in my bathroom in peace for just 15 to 20 minutes. I also listen to podcasts while I do it. And sometimes I'm staring into space and just absorbing the sounds. But it's a lot of just being with myself. And yeah, taking care of myself before I stop the day. And it's beautiful. I really do love it. It's also really peaceful to do something for yourself in the morning. It's like a meditation. In a way. Like, you are practicing some sort of meditation. And even though you're not sitting down, and closing your eyes, and counting your breath. Like, you are creating space for yourself before the chaos hits to do what feels right for you and to take care of yourself, which is also like a reinforcing principle too. Like, when you're taking care of yourself and it feels good, then you're going to want to keep doing it. - I think maybe it's like something we would relate to, just give in our personalities and our similarities, but I personally find comfort in the predictability and in the routine. - Yes. - I know. - That's a good question. - I guess, I guess it is. For better or for worse, I find comfort in knowing like one step comes next after the other, and like knowing what is going to happen next gives me peace. So maybe it's not even the exact steps that I'm doing in my skincare routine, but just knowing that they exist and like what to expect is really peaceful. And then you're also making yourself feel good 'cause you're taking care of yourself totally. And then it just sets you up the success for the day. I really do, again, creature of habit. If something makes you feel good, repeat it. Like don't stop doing it. And if you find something else that makes you feel good, add that in. I really do believe that. And this pandemic, if it's told me anything, it's to always just do what feels good in the moment. And for me, it is typically centered around making a crazy purchase at Sephora, or heading to a apothecary-like store to buy eccentric skincare. And guashing my face, like those things make me really happy and I continue to do them. And in the evening, no matter what is going on, I always spend 10 minutes just doing my skin. And like there's not even, I don't have, there are three things I do in the evening to my skin. It's not even that extensive, but it's about the ritual, the practice. And it is a meditation. I don't even meditate, but I would totally consider what I'm doing, the most peaceful thing that I can possibly do for myself. And it feels good. I'm not gonna stop. - Exactly. You can for sure count that as your meditation. And beyond skincare, what are some other things that you do to try to stay healthy? So I know right now you're living at home, but you haven't lived at home forever, like upon graduating. So working from home, flying out for shoots, just navigating like your work schedule, what are some things that you try to keep consistent in your day to day that are revolved around health and wellness beyond skincare? That's a great question. I love a good walk. I love a good walk outside. I walk outside. I've been seeing so many takes talks about girls who walk, girls who take their cheeky 20 minute walks in the middle of the day. I love to do just a walk. An aimless walk, I usually walk to Central Park, do a lap of the Great Lawn, and then walk back to my parents place. So it's a, that kind of consistency is, again, really does ground me, and it is a place where I feel acts, sort of, can act as a meditation. Walking is a sort of form of meditation. I try not to take any calls when I do these walks sometimes if I'm on like a very long, you know, one to two hour meeting. I'm like, you know what, this can be done in Central Park. Like let's take this to the park and be with the birds and be with a little nature. I'm like, you know, we're city kids. So it's like that's the only nature we really have. But it, you know, it kind of makes up for it. Like it feels like you're in nature. You are. I mean, you're not in like, just don't look up and around because like there are buildings everywhere. Exactly. But if you just look down, it feels good. It feels really good. But another big ritual, I would say, wellness ritual for me is cooking. I really, I'm really into cooking and baking. I do love a good cake and cookie. But it's something that I picked up in the pandemic, especially moving back home and spending more time with my parents, more time with my dad. My dad's a really big, he's really big in the kitchen, kitchen man. And him and I just like spend a lot of time in the kitchen together this pandemic. And like I got like, low key really good at cooking and baking. That's a big life skill to have. Thank you. Yes, it's a huge life skill. And I highly recommend everyone busts out the pan and gets experimental with their omelette. Like don't just fry up some eggs. Like get experimental, put some stuff up on it. So you have a special omelette. Like that's your signature. It's honestly my breakfast signature. It's a feta omelette. I mean, you'd be into it. Yes, we're also both Greek. Connie is Greek. Yep, we are Greek. So feta from Astoria is obviously at large in the fridge. It's like full pans of feta in the fridge right now. Wish I was kidding. And we-- yeah, I just-- I make a really fluffy feta scramble or a really fluffy feta omelette. And sometimes I toss in some chili flakes, little olive oil. And it just feels like a pillowy dream. So that's my breakfast signature for the weekends. And then sometimes I'll shove it in a sandwich and then make it a breakfast sandwich. That sounds delicious. And you're making me hungry all over again. Love it. But I think also with the pandemic, we all moved home. And I was home for March until September. And something that I really valued was getting to sit down and have dinner with my parents every single night. I don't think the last time that happened, I was probably too young to even remember. And it was so nice to be able to just sit down, cook with my mom, eat a meal together. My dad would always come home crazy late at night, just from work, pre-pandemic. And so we would never overlap with timing to sit down and eat dinner. And it was so nice that he could actually be present. And the three of us could sit down. And there's just something very calming and grounding. When you're with family or friends, and you're sitting down and you're sharing a meal together. And the fact that we were all kind of forced to do that in the pandemic was really nice. And it's something I'm afraid we're going to lose as we're coming out of it. Yeah, we're totally losing it. It's like back to work. And it's things that's sort of going back to normal for lack of a better phrase. I mean, back to normal. What is back to normal when you're in the middle of one of the worst times, I think, in the world right now? We've got civil and international conflict and a pandemic. And it just doesn't feel like it's going to stop anytime soon. But the family dinners totally have fallen off. And I think that's a symptom of the American very much we're back to normal. Pandemic is our vibe, which I think is trying to sell that dream. But it does feel like we're losing that a little bit. And I had many-- I thought that I was never going to live at home again once I moved out postgrad. And my sister was going to go straight to medical school. And we were never going to live together again. And 2020 hit. And I'm like, all four of us are under the same roof. And we're like, oh, we're all roommates now. It's not even like-- We're all roommates. Exactly. We're not a family home. No. This dynamic has shifted. It has-- once you hit your 20s, the dynamic-- It's different. It's a different shift. And we all had to operate roommates. It was actually-- it's crazy. And we all have our own little work from home space. In the beginning, my sister was the only one who went into the office because she works for a doctor. And we all just had to live with each other and eat every single meal together. And it was such a bizarre thing to do in your 20s with your parents. And I know the pandemic was really tough for parents, new parents, old parents with smaller children. But parents who had kids in their 20s and who were working, I feel like it either totally bonded you for life or it-- Or that was it. Or that was it. Yeah. And they're like, no, happy medium. No. There's no in between. There is no in between, especially when you move in with your family post-credit. Yeah. Thought of it makes me sweat still. But I have no regrets. This has been a great little stint. It's coming to an end. But it's been great. Speaking of family. So I know that you're from Australia. And first of all, that's really cool, because I've always wanted to go to Australia. Oh, yeah, you've been trying. I've been trying, and the world has said no as of now, but it's not a no forever. And in Australia in particular, from what I can imagine, the culture to be around health and wellness is wildly different than what I think it looks like here in America. So from your perspective, what are those differences? And do you feel like growing up for some time in Australia has shaped the way you view health and wellness now living here in New York? Totally. I think that Australia-- and it's so tough to speak on my life in Australia, just because I haven't lived there in what feels like a gazillion years. Yeah, it's been some time. It's been some time. I left Australia in 2005 with my family, and we lived in Paris. And then in 2008, we came to New York. So I really have not lived there in such a long time. And there are so many things I still don't know about Australia. So I really do feel like a tourist when I go. It's kind of funny. What I noticed about a stra-- I guess Melvin-- I'm from Melbourne specifically. And Melvin's a fabulous city. Definitely go visit. What I noticed about Melbourne when I would visit every Christmas was the coffee culture. And it was something that we didn't have in New York at the time. But it was the idea of ritual coffee drinking and coffee snacking and breaking. And just like the coffee ritual itself was taken so seriously in Australia. And I think it was brought to New York by Australians. And I'm pretty sure that has been fact checked. A lot of those small beautiful coffee shops that you see-- They're all Australian. Well, it started out, I think, with Bluestone Lane in New York. And I was like, oh my god, it's an Australian coffee shop. How cool is that? And this was when I was in high school. Yeah. Like 2016, I would say maybe. It was around that time, 2014 to 2017. And then. like all these other ones start popping up. And they're all like Huch and Waldo. I think Huch and Waldo's here, like little Collins, that's a good one. - Yeah, they're all Australian. - All Australian. And I remember the shift when I was in high school. I think it was like towards the end of high school, where all these spots started popping up and I could get a good latte. You could not find a good latte in New York City for a really long time. I would go to Dean and Deluca, which would give me, you know, a bit-- - Now it's-- - It's like close. - It's close. - RIP to Dean and Deluca, which is why I can speak confidently on the burnt milk latte. But it was a-- That's literally the only place I could go was like, was then. I drank, started drinking coffee at a really young age, due to my Greek, our Greek culture. My grandparents would feed me coffee. I don't even know if I actually-- - A Greek coffee, like after dinner? - Yes. - Like my grandma would pour it onto a little plate when I was a kid and would let me sip the coffee. It was honestly chaotic now that I think about it. But-- - Yeah. - Or would you ever do the thing where, I think my mom would do this. Like you would drink it, but then you would see what pattern like emerged in the cup. - Oh yeah. - Just like predict your-- - Yeah. - It's like a reading. - Yeah. - It's like a tea leaf reading, but like a coffee reading. - Exactly. - I could agree coffee reading. - I did many coffee readings. I've been told many things about my future and coffee readings by aunts and great aunts. - Did any of them come true? - Honestly, yeah, they-- I mean, you know, it's like the peripheral. - When you will find-- - You will find, yeah. You will find love eventually. You will make money. It's like, well, okay, yes. I guess we check those boxes. We found love in a hopeless place and we be bringing them to the checks. Like, you know, it's, that's the great coffee reading. But I really think that coffee culture in Australia is very much the ritual of Australians. And it was brought to New York and I'm so glad it was. And it's such a big thing here. And the ritual of getting coffee and being with a friend and, you know, going for a walk in a coffee like really was such a big thing then. And it still is today. And I love that it is. - Definitely. And I think also now that coffee culture has kind of, I mean, it's definitely more present now in New York. Probably will never match the energy in Australia. But now that it's definitely more of a present thing here, something that I found to be really lovely. And maybe it's also probably like a combination of the pandemic. But just getting like some sort of drink with a friend and going for a walk is so great. Like having like, like that be the activity. Like the main, that's the main event. - That's the main event is like grabbing, well now as you know, I've given up coffee. So if I ever do make it to Australia, I'll probably have to get back on the coffee grind. - It's worth it. - It's really. - No pun intended. - Literally. - But, you know, just getting like a match or something. - You know, I'm sure they have great matches in Australia too. I've never had match up, but I'm in Australia specifically, but I'm sure it's divine knowing. - You know, because when I was in Bali, like it was amazing there. And also Bali has really good coffee too. It's like the Java bean. - The Java bean. - The Java bean. Yeah. So I'm sure, you know, they'll have great drinks there. - So fabulous. - You know, in my mind, Australia is very well-ness oriented. Like you're near the ocean and it's warm and it's sunny and it's very laid back. And it's a very big shift now, like living in a city like New York, which is incredibly fast paced. And I think that growing up here, like, we didn't really know anything other than what we saw. And so like when I went to college, I went to school in the Midwest. I know you stayed in New York for school, but it was a totally different change of pace. And when I was removed from the environment of being in New York, I really did realize, like how much of a beast the city is. And I think that, you know, being away for school and then coming back has made me recognize that it is kind of hard in a way to follow those, like, wellness practices being in New York when everything is so fast paced and chaotic. And there's always something to do. Like, yeah, it's actually kind of hard to feel at peace and more mellow. - It's like not as accessible in New York. You do need to find it. If you just want wellness and peace and serenity to fall in your lap, you do have to, like venture out and search for it. Or find it in your own space at home. I think Australia, I can't speak too much to the wellness space outside of the food and coffee culture. But I know it's like if you took L.A. or if you took like stereotypical California energy and you put that all over the coast of Australia, it probably does check out. And it's very, you know, a little slower paced. I think cities like Melbourne and Sydney, are a little more upbeat when you get into the city itself. But there really is no energy that compes to the New York bustle. There's like a serious vibration happening here that is pretty unnatched. And I actually read somewhere that, oh, maybe, and by read somewhere, I think I saw a TikTok on it. - That's what, that's how we consume our news now. - I'm like, you read somewhere. - Nope, I saw a video on my free U-Page. - Yep, it was a video. I think it was an archaeological, which I don't even know how this ended up on my FYP, but it was like this archaeological TikTok that gave you like, it like sped like fun facts. I think it's like a sponsored by Discovery. So it is a legit form of news, I would say. You can find that on TikTok. - Oh, you can. - Depending on what side you're on. - Depending on what side you can get facts. But this was about, I think there was like a, Chris, there's like some sort of mineral that's buried underneath New York City, which I mean, take this with a grain of salt from my perspective, but it's causing this, like it caused like a giant energy shift in New York, which makes it such a bustling city. There's like this, I don't know what mineral it is. It's definitely, for, quote, a crystal, for lack of a better term, that like sits underneath the core of New York City, and like actually is the cause, root cause of all of our bustling problems and high energy. Like the reason why we can't slow down, is not because, you know, the city is loud. Like the city's quiet right now, it's a Sunday, but I'm, there's something in the air. - There's something in the air. - There's some magnetic, you know, it's a force. - I can guarantee you this video is definitely gonna come up on my free page later today. Just because my phone is right here, and it listens. It listens, and it knows. I swear, like, I, so many stories around just how TikTok has like predicted my behavior, and then also I think like created the space for me to behave in a way I probably shouldn't have, because of the content it spits out to me, but that's very interesting. - Yeah, I, that's like a fun fact. Like seriously, a fun fact. Like that's really why the city vibrates the way it does, and it's not, it's, has nothing to do with like the people. It's just the literal earth, the soil. It's the, the air as well. It's all of it. - Well, you know, there's only one way to find out, really is, you know, we'll have to, we'll have to find this crystal the core of New York. - We need to, I need to find that. Take a shot, if you can. - Yeah, exactly. - We can get in touch with this man. - You know, very curious to see if this is real. Moving away from the crazy energy that is New York City. - Indeed. - And moving towards this, you know, the fact that we are four years apart and you're 26 now. Well, we're, okay, also fun fact. We are recording this on our half birthday. We forgot to mention this earlier. We are recording this interview on our half birthday and like, I don't really celebrate my half birthday. - I never have this today. - This is today and I think we should make this a thing. - Okay, it's a half birthday. - Like what's not to celebrate that we made it six months into the new year of our living? Like that's incredible. - I don't mind me that I'm six months away from being 27. - Okay, that's true. And you know, I'm having like a mini crisis 'cause I'm like, okay, I'm 23. Like the numbers just keep getting higher. - I get higher. And it's difficult out there. And a lot of what I talk about on this podcast is navigating the uncertainties of being in your 20s, dealing with the transition post-grad, you know, figuring out how to take care of yourself in a way that is accessible to you and actually excites you. So given that we do have a little bit of an age gap, I would love to hear your wisdom on, you know, some of the like the top lessons that you've learned in your early 20s. And now as you're moving towards 27 and six months, what do you wish you could have told yourself in my shoes like at my age? - Oh my God, now that I am where I am right now, there are so many things I would tell myself. I would tell myself to just slow down. I was very much, I had a lot mapped out for myself with my career, my romantic life, my future in general. And it can hurt sometimes, it can involve life and death and heartbreak and it can involve many, you know, different, you know, life, like life shit happens things. But accept the fact that the map can change and like be okay with the fact that it can change. Like I definitely mapped it the way I wanted my career to move and the direction I wanted it to go into that I feel like has I've been able to successfully accomplish that and like I'm still trying to keep myself challenged and reach different goals and make sure that I'm, you know, doing what I can in order to move myself forward in that direction when it comes to life and love and friendships and relationships. I'm, it's, you know, people change. and when people change, the map changes. And like, you know, whoever goes, we create lists. - We create lists. - Vision boards. Like, we have it down to the team. - Oh my God, we want the answers. - We want to know. - We want the answers. And I think a part of growing up, especially in New York City, and like navigating the post-grad biop is sort of not, stopping yourself a little and saying, you know, I don't need to find all the answers. I was very lucky with my job to have everything sort of full where I wanted it to. And it's very rare for that to happen to someone in their 20s. And I'm a bad example for people who are like, well, how'd you figure it out? And I'm like, I don't know. I just like, I really was, it fell into my lap and I was really vocal about what I wanted and I just did everything I could and sacrificed stuff to get there. But with life, it'd be okay with the fact that things can change and it brings you a lot of peace. And like we said, we had paninis before this. We had a cheeky panini moment. - It was great. - Yeah, a cheeky panini great moment. And we talked about like not getting closure and like closure is one thing that like for a burger. I mean, I'm not even an astrologist. So please don't quote me on this. - Yeah, we brought up Virgo like 22 times in this conversation. - We don't follow astrology, but because I'm a Virgo. - But because I'm a Virgo, I really do think this is true. But like not, you know, being okay with like not having answers to everything is a really, is a, is a peaceful place to be at. And I recommend embracing that. And honestly therapy, like I'm a big therapy gal. When I first graduated from college, I mean, we graduated in May, that September, I found a therapist and I was like, you are going to be in my life forever, Miss Naomi, Dr. Naomi, like she's really such a harmy. And she's been helping me navigate life. And that's really what therapy is for. And like learning how to handle things and in a crisis and learning about yourself and like making informed decisions about your past to help, you know, help form your future in a healthy, healthy way. And therapy I think is like one piece of advice that I would give to anyone young in their 20s, like go get a therapist, like you'll not regret in going to getting a therapist. It's amazing. I love my therapist. So 10 out of 10 would recommend. This is all very valuable advice. And I think it's great that, you know, you're so open about sharing this because I think people in our generation like want this. And they, you know, they, I think we're now trying to find ways to break those barriers around mental health and open up that conversation and normalize going to therapy and recognizing like something we'd actually spoken about earlier today is like, you know, seeking out therapy when things are quote unquote like okay in your life. Yeah. Instead of going to therapy when like you feel like you're in a crisis and then the therapist helps you in that moment and then you're like, okay, like my life's good. Like all back to normal, like don't need you anymore. But like every day is has a challenge in some shape or, you know, way or form. So I totally agree with you. Like it's so important to have someone there. If you feel like you need that support to help guide you along that path because life can be very, very difficult. Literally, it can be. And I remember there was one pivotal moment when I first started therapy, which I will share. I was just, I was sitting in the, in my chair, pre-pandemic obviously, the therapist chair, beautiful leather chair. And I had just overcome a, an obstacle, the week prior. And I was telling my therapist about this new obstacle. And I was, I just, I said something along the lines of, I mean, what the fuck Naomi, it doesn't stop. Like it, like, and she just looked at me and said, you know, that's welcome to adulthood. Like that is literally, she's like, this is, you know, things aren't easy now. Like you have to make decisions for yourself and like that's why we're here. Like to just help. And it was, I think the turning point, where I said, you know what, even when I don't need to be here or when I think I'm really good, I'm gonna show up, whether it's once every two weeks, once every three weeks, once a month, I'm gonna show up for myself and talk to someone who gets paid to listen and paid to give advice. It's like pretty lit, you know? Yeah, no, I mean, in another world, therapy could have been cool. Like to, to be a therapist, or like to be, psychiatrist, 'cause I thought I wanted to go to med school. So if I had chose that path, psychiatry would have been, of interest to me. But that's such a good point. Like what you said, like what the fuck, it doesn't stop. Yeah, it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop. So let this be a reminder that, you know, maybe a way to more positively reframe that is, yeah, it doesn't stop, but that means we're always gonna learn something. Exactly. So that's a very empowering way, I think, to think about it totally. Always learning, always absorbing. That's life. Full conny, I feel like we are like souls, that sounds so cliche. I was gonna say soul spirits. Yeah, we did spirits. Let's put it that way. I hate the word soul sisters. I'm not, I'm gonna, I'm gonna not say that. It's giving like my Catholic school time. Like we're all soul sisters. We're all soul sisters. We're 24-year-olds. Yeah. Just the fact that we also have the same birthday, it's kind of magical and it's just been so lovely having you as a guest on my show. Like genuinely such a fun time. And you've had so many amazing things to share. Your career is incredible. You are an incredible person. And I definitely look up to all the advice that you have to share. So thank you. Oh, I love you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a lovely little experience. And out Chilote, like our city. Chilote. So cool. Vibe right now is really freaking cute. And I can do it again. It is. It's like the best situation. And before I let you go, my final question for you, which you've kind of answered sporadically throughout this interview, is a question I ask every guest that comes onto the podcast. And this question is, what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins? Oh, this-- a lot of things bring me endorphins. I am a very energetic person. So I do-- I do endorphin chase, fillacavetta phrase. But I love to chase that sort of energy. But I think what really gives me that boost of endorphins every day is those little pockets of rituals that I have for my wellness and skincare routine. And I think that little period of time that you have in the evenings before you go out with friends, before you're meeting someone for a drink, or for dinner, or to hang out, that period where you're getting ready and you're sort of just in your own space, working on yourself, or maybe not even, you're just sitting with yourself. That's my favorite 15-minute moment, whenever I'm doing anything, just putting on my lip gloss, feeling myself. That is literally-- that's the pocket of time that brings me, I think, the most joy. And then I hit the town. It's very cute. But-- and in the morning, I like doing that in the morning as well, like that little pocket of time where I'm 20 minutes in the bathroom, doing my face, massaging my jawline with my washer to release tension. That's my favorite pot. And that brings me a lot of joy and is an endorphin kick, for sure. That is a great answer. And I haven't heard anyone say that before. And it's also so specific too, because I can totally relate. And I think a lot of girls out there listening probably can relate as well. I feel like we all know that feeling when we're getting ready to go out somewhere or to meet someone and you're alone. And it's peaceful maybe you're listening to music, you're doing your makeup. Everything just works. And it's the best feeling. The ultimate endorphin high. The ultimate. And sometimes it's arguably the better pot of the evening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think she's like a lonely one. I don't need to deal with anything else. Well, thank you so much, Connie. This was lovely. Thank you again for having me. [MUSIC PLAYING] Thank you for listening. And remember to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things that bring you endorphins every day. See you next time. [MUSIC PLAYING]