EP #68 - Meditation Misconceptions & Corporate Wellness with Cassandra Bianco, Meditation Teacher and Founder of Wellbeings

(gentle music) That's where meditations like, is you're just learning to navigate that inner wilderness. And then, senior realize it's not a wilderness at all. It's like heaven, you know? It's just unfamiliar, 'cause we don't spend much time in it. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday in Dorfins. This week is all about demystifying meditation, meditation misconceptions, and how to find more inner peace in your day-to-day life. I am so thrilled to bring Cassandra Bianco onto the podcast this week to discuss all of those topics. Cassandra is not only a meditation teacher who has been trained with world renowned instructors, but she is also the founder of Well Beings, which is a corporate wellness company. Her work has been featured in the New York Times around demystifying meditation, and she's worked with a variety of wellness brands and advised some of the world's most disruptive companies, like Spotify and Karna on corporate wellness and the value of bringing mindfulness into the workplace and how you can adopt certain mindfulness practices in your day-to-day life. In this interview, we discuss everything related to meditation, how Cassandra got interested in meditation, her approach to teaching mindfulness and meditation, and we also talk a little bit about women's circles and how you can get involved. Prior to our conversation, I actually knew nothing about women's circles, so stick around for the end where we talk a little bit about the work that Cassandra is doing there. About halfway through the interview, Cassandra actually leads us through a guided five-minute meditation. She was recording this with me sitting outside, and so throughout the interview, you can hear birds chirping in the background. It's a pretty serene and calming sound and backdrop for the interview to be taking place, so it's quite fitting with the content that we get into today. But before we get into it, remember to like, rate, and review this podcast on which every listening platform you prefer. Hi, Cassandra. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. How are you doing today? Thanks, Stella. Good. I'm here. My birds, millions, so I'm happy. I can hear the birds chirping through the computer, and honestly, it's putting me in such a relaxed and meditative state. It's funny. There's some sounds and some, like certain people's voices that tend to really calm me down, and I can feel it like in my body, like there's a change in, like an internal feeling, just based off of like, what I'm listening to or who I'm listening to. There's some people that just like, instantly put me in that meditative state, and that's the vibe that I'm feeling, just from starting this interview. So I already feel really calm and centered. Perfect. We'll have the best interview ever then. Let's get into it. So I'd love to start off by having you talk a little bit about yourself and, you know, as a meditation teacher, how did you develop your passions for health and wellness? Yeah, you know, I think for me, it was a definitely returning to who I was when I was little. And then Hawaii's definitely shown that to me is, you know, when I was little, I was grew up in Miami, and I loved playing with all the animals and being in nature, and doing lots of creative art activities. And I think so much education for youth, this message is like, you know, you have to figure out who you are, you know, one day you'll know who you are, and in fact, kids know who they are, you know. They might not know exactly what career they are, but I think that, you know, I took many, many years, now at 36 for me to kind of return to, you know, that's more or less what I do now. I teach meditation, I teach creativity workshops. You know, when I was little, I used to put all my stuffed animals in a circle and talk to them. Now I do that with teens and tweens and women, and you know, kids tell them who we are, and we need to listen to them when they tell us this thing. So I wasn't necessarily a very meditation, at all, meditation focused, didn't know what that was back then, like many of us. But yeah, that part came later, and it's been the greatest gift ever, and so that's why I've dedicated my life to it. - It's funny that you mentioned that you used to put your stuffed animals in a circle, 'cause I did the same thing, and I don't know if it's because I'm an only child, so I had to find ways to entertain myself, but I would have my stuffed animals in a circle, and I had a whiteboard in my bedroom, in my childhood bedroom, and I would teach them, like creative writing, like how to write a story, or like simple math, things that I was learning in school. So I don't know if it was just a product of figuring out how to occupy my time, or if there's maybe a greater meaning to that around the symbolism of teaching. - Yeah, sounds like you're a teacher. (laughs) - And we'd connected offline about your experience as a meditation teacher, and also being instructed by other meditation teachers who are very prominent in the field. So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about some of the lessons that you learned through the process of meditating on your own, and then going through that to actually become a meditation teacher. - Yeah, definitely. So unfortunately, and I think we talked about this when we met, but most meditation is divorced from yoga, in America and in the West, which is crazy, because historically you did yoga to prepare the mind for meditation. So the awesome, physical practice you prepared. And I do believe that. So I didn't, you know, I had taken yoga for like maybe 15 years and did my yoga teacher training, and we would do a little bit of meditation, breath work every morning for, you know, six days in a row for four weeks in a row. But there wasn't sort of this context provided, or the science behind it. And so it really wasn't until the seed that was planted was actually this woman, Jimmy Zimmerman. She was a CNN reporter. She was a doctor, and she was a meditation teacher. And when I went to see her talk in New York City, a friend was hosting a nice sort of TED Talk style gathering. And she was talking about this meditation. And I think it was probably one of the first people I met that, you know, wasn't sort of the sort of old stigma of like yogis and a cave, or the only people who meditate, right? So this was about almost nine years ago now. So now obviously it's quite common, thank goodness, but it was really profound. And she provided us with a technique that I still do to this day. Unfortunately, she's no longer with us. But she really just inspired me. And then there was another woman, Anahita Moghadam, who taught about the neuroscience of happiness. And it was just so profound what they said, but it didn't really process. You know, it really planted a seed. And it wasn't until a few years later that I friended Anahita on Facebook. She thankfully accepted. I didn't know what she didn't know who I was. But accepted, I invited her to our first while being's gathering. So we were hosting TED Talk style gatherings. We would meditate. Often startup founders would donate their lofts and so-ho. And we'd have food and sweet green, delicious salads. And she gave the talk. And I wasn't the only one that was blown away. And at that point, it was a lot of other meditation teachers. It was all, you know, an investor we had to show up. We had a documentary. And we did the documentary on the Dalai Lama. Like somehow everyone had heard about this little gathering that I hosted. And I realized I wasn't the only one deeply craving these wisdom teachings, but also this sense of community and connection and fulfillment. And it was just such a nourishing experience. And yeah, I didn't really understand what nourishing meant aside from spending good moments with family or friends. But I think it was one of the first times that I got to actually feel what healthy community is like. And that was really powerful. That's interesting that you say that you-- this redefined what it meant to have a nourishing moment in your life. Because I think when I feel nourished, socially creative-- I feel empowered. And I feel that endorphin kick. So I'm curious to hear more of that distinction between what you had thought of previously as just feeling nourished versus what that experience had brought you, just having that community that was supportive and uplifting and everyone kind of coming together with very similar values and interests and goals. Like how did that feel differently than from what you had previously experienced? Yeah, you know, the intention was to connect with others that hopefully would be like minded and open-hearted. And also, we were just-- we're all just giant nerds, you know? Everyone, you would probably get along with this well, just like really get into these topics. And we can talk about them all day long, right? They're just such interesting topics to us. So the intentional gatherings is a nice way of describing it that we're all there to connect. And sort of-- it's not only the term consciousness is-- grown around a lot. It's a trendy word now, but that's what it is. You know, it's this idea that when we come together, you know, love and learning about wisdom, like we're all sort of growing together. And in terms of what you said about nourishment, you know, I realized that certain activities I was doing in my life were regenerative and I felt really good and recovered and healed and yeah, like my my plate felt so full and beautiful. Another activities are degenerative, right? And I don't think anything's necessarily bad or good. It's just we have to be so aware of, you know, what we're placing our attention on and our intention, pretty much in any situation. So for me, it's, you know, understanding, even just like watching TV or Netflix, right? Like if you watch a really, really good film, it can feel regenerative, it can. But what I've noticed is most TV. It's just an addiction or it's just a way to distract myself. And you know, sometimes you need that, like I was, I got COVID over Christmas and I wasn't so much mental pain mostly, mostly just like psychological stuff, honestly, then physical. But I did just need to distract myself a little bit here and there. And it was very hard for me to meditate because I wasn't so much physical pain. So, you know, these things have, you know, purposes at times, but understanding what's really regenerative, like amazing conversation with a good friend. And you don't know if it's been five minutes or two hours, you know, we've all had those moments of just feeling so at peace and accepted and loved and those people that bring the best out of us. And I really do believe it should go beyond, you know, our family, our friends, like if we can somehow channel that energy wherever we go, any class we go to, any conversation we have, whether it's a text or email or phone call, like we can, we can sort of tap into that energy. And then we're able to sort of move through the world that way rather than, you know, kind of wondering if you're at a party like, oh, who's going to be there? I don't know what the vibe's going to be like. You have that inner peace and calm and that's really powerful. Everyone will gravitate to that. I like how you mentioned that when you had COVID, you were finding it really difficult to meditate, because I think that people who see meditation teachers or yoga instructors or people who are in the wellness community, they maybe think that these people are like experts at meditating or yoga. And they're the best at doing these things. And in theory, if you're great at meditating, then you should have a stress-free and problem-free life, right? But that's not the case. And I would love to hear a little bit more about maybe the misconceptions around what it's like to be a meditation teacher, what it's like to be so close to the practice and have such a daily meditation practice in your life, like how, how has that changed your day-to-day life? Is it still difficult to meditate and being a teacher? How does that really impact your relationship with meditating? Because I think a lot of people just see it as something you either are good at or are bad at. But my guess is that it's just something we're all still working on and we can always improve on. That's a wonderful question. Yeah, I really I love talking about this because I think it helps sort of demystify all of it. It's just so it can be so intimidating to people and you know, I never want that to be the case. But I really see it almost like a muscle in the beginning. And then at soon on, especially if you're working with a teacher you love, you have a breakthrough and meditating becomes just like the most juicy, you know, inner retreat, peaceful experience. So why wouldn't you want to do that every day? And for me, like I said, I did yoga many year, 15, 20 years and I, the only meditation I had, like probably most of your listeners that they do yoga was at the end the Shavasana, which could be anywhere from two minutes to 15, her nose. And so I really thought like, wow, I guess I can only meditate after I do yoga class. It just was sort of this unconscious assumption I had. So it wasn't until I started working with my teacher who I met through Anita, the woman who gave the talk on the neuroscience of happiness. And my teacher's a punsak, so he's a former Tibetan Buddhist monk. And I think there's something about finding someone that really embodies the way you want to live, maybe not all of their life, but there's large pieces of the way that they, you know, speak about the world or behave and you really want to, the event, it's very expansive to see people like that in your life that are like, okay, I know I have that potential too. And with him, I didn't even know he was a monk, former monk, when I met him, I just felt this like love. And everyone says that who's met him. And he really is just this embodiment of love and compassion. And it's wonderful because there's no, there's no dogma, there's no like, you have to do it this way, there's no rigidity, there's no guru complex, right? Like if I went to class once and then didn't show up for a couple years, he would open me with big arms. So it feels very peaceful, it feels very safe. And so I just, it was almost like, I like to compare it to if you're going, you know, an adventure, a wilderness adventure on the forest. Yeah, you can go off by yourself. Hopefully you have the skills, you know, the life skills to be able to do that. But if not, it's totally okay to have a guide. And maybe that guide takes you all the way through the forest, your first few times, but then maybe they just take you to the entrance and you go a little bit further and a little bit further. And I really, really believe that's what meditations like is you're just learning to navigate that inner wilderness. And then seeing you realize it's not a wilderness at all, it's like heaven, you know, it's just unfamiliar because we don't spend much time in it. So that's sort of how I see meditation. And then also like I really consider it almost like three different experiences. So for me, guiding, like I think that's almost the most enjoyable because I selfishly know that I'm making other people happy. So it's like a nice feedback loop because they don't even have to say anything. I can just see their, the, the, the the relaxation on their face, their body changes after a meditation. And so that feedback, whether verbal or not just means the world, often I'll get good feedback. And I, I like to sort of dismantle any, you know, confusing things like often people will say what happens a lot. And maybe you've noticed this with yoga teachers and stuff is people get really attached to their teachers because they've helped them so much, right? They've helped them so much and and it's so easy to pedestal teachers because they seem so all knowing. But in fact, you know, my teacher always says this and the Dalai Lama says this is like, that's just a mirror of your potential, you know, that's, that's not, this person's not better than you. Maybe they are a little bit older and maybe had a little bit more experience. So when someone says that was the best meditation of my life. And I say thank you for saying that, you know, I've said that before to my teachers. And the reason you're probably saying that is because you feel safe with me, feel comfortable with me and that means a lot and you were allowing me to guide you there. So I don't want people to, everything that they need to rely on me to get there. I'm just a guide. Right, you're like the, the vehicle kind of torque that you're experiencing. Yeah. And that's why you have all those cults and all that stuff because people aren't coming from like our grounded place, right? You really want to make sure you're working with someone who has good intentions and doesn't let you go take, we all have ego, but it's learning how to work with it. Being guided in meditation, sitting in meditation is often the hardest for people, right? Sitting in silence. And so for me, I wasn't actually able to do that until I studied quite a bit with Quinsock. And then the gaps between when he would be speaking and guiding in meditation would get longer and longer and longer. And then somehow I was sitting in silence one day. And funny enough, I like to tell the story, especially with the New Yorkers, but like my first consistent practice was actually just doing deep breathing 20 minutes every day on the subway. So a non seemingly, well, not a, not a beautiful Maui with birds and chameleons know the very loud subway, but I did have my headphones on. And it can be very hypnotic to hear your breath. So just the sound of other, well, the sound of other people's breaths as well, but you know, the deep inhalation, longer exhalation through your stomach is scientifically proven to relax your nervous system. So I was just doing that for 20 minutes. And then I would show up to my crazy, crazy, you know, tech startup job at this incubator. And I became that safe person for everyone because, you know, everyone was giving in to the chaos around them. I kind of could see everything going on. I couldn't control much of it. But what I could do is just, you know, offer five minute meditation in which turn into 10, 30. And before we knew it, we had a nice little community of people at the office, you know, that were able to really connect on a deeper level that they probably wouldn't have otherwise. I love how you were doing your, your own breathwork meditations on the subway. It's really, it goes to show that these are practices you can do anywhere, like you don't have to be in a beautiful backdrop and on a beach. And like these are things you can and should bring into your day-to-day life. And speaking of the passion that you get from guiding people in meditation, I'd love to take just a few moments. now in the middle of the interview to do a little guided meditation. How does that sound to you? Let's do it. And yeah, but you have maybe how much time would you like? Let's do a five-minute guided meditation with the birds in the background. So hopefully my listeners, as you're listening to this interview, you can find a comfortable position and find just some space to be led in a guided meditation by Cassandra. Perfect. So yeah, that is most important. Thank you for saying that. Salabudists always say comfort and stability, most important for meditating. So we say to put a cushion under your bottom or sit on a chair with feet firmly planted. I actually like to sit in a chair with my legs crossed. That's comfortable for me. And just go ahead and relax. Everything, close your eyes. Put your palms on your on your knees. They can be facing down or up. Whatever feels best here. We're going to do a few accelerations longer here. So go ahead and exhale H-A-O. Take a deep belly breath in. And exhale longer out. Again, really keep actor and calming our nervous systems down. So deep belly breath in. And exhale out. Just taking in all the sounds in. And exhale out. One more in. And out. Just coming back to your normal breath here. Becoming aware perhaps of your breath for the first time today in a while. Just becoming aware of where it's entering, where it's going, where it comes circles back out here. Just styling in right now to this moment right here. Feeling the temperature of the space that you're in. Feeling softness with the clothing on your body. Feeling aware of any sounds, a little of the sound in my voice. I'm just trying to recognize the sounds, not necessarily pleasant or unpleasant. Maybe identifying the level of intensity, soft sound, intense sound. Go ahead and exhale again here and dropping your shoulders, making sure your jaws a little more relaxed. And just becoming aware of how you're doing internally, right today. We're going on a little internal adventure. Getting to know the internal world here. Better because we know so much about the rest of the world and everyone else and what they're doing. It's amazing how we know so much about other things that we have no control over. But in fact, the one thing we have control over is this experience right here right now. So really just giving yourself a moment of congratulations. Just perhaps remembering now that relaxation is in fact the default state. Peace is our default. We are all born this way. So it doesn't require us to go anywhere, do anything, climb a mountain. It's really just a return home back to the natural state of how we are. That's really comforting knowing that, right. It's always easy to return home. It's much harder to sometimes take a big leap. So we're going to gently accept this little meditation here. And exhale, a little pulse. Just feeling grateful for this moment right here, right now. Knowing that you doing the work, self-love, whatever you want to call it, knowing that prioritizing this has a ripple effect. Everyone else that you will interact with, just you're the honoring the power of this practice. It's for you and for the world, yeah. So take one last deep breath in. Exhale and you know I was out. And slowly come back into your body. Feeling the weight of your hands on your knees. Coming aware of the softness of the clothing on your body. And when you're ready only when you are ready, you can gently open your eyes and slowly come back into the space. And follow this conversation with Stella and I. I feel so relaxed. Like this is a reminder for me to keep up my meditation practice, truly, because it goes to show even just five minutes, it's kind of like a little reset and it's powerful. For whoever's listening, if you didn't do that guided meditation, definitely come back to this part of the episode. Either start out your day with that or end your day with that because that was so wonderful. So thank you, Cassandra, for leading us in this guided meditation. You're welcome. Happy to anytime. And I know that you also leave these types of meditations in the work environment. So there's this whole term around workplace wellness and I know that there was a really amazing article written about all the work that you're doing around workplace wellness. So can you talk a little bit about what you're doing, bringing meditation into the corporate world and the impact that you've seen these practices have on executives and their fields. Yeah, definitely. I think the reason why me and my business partner Avi, who's an amazing breathwork coach, we're so passionate about this is we used to work in those environments. So I worked, you know, in creative agencies and startup tech companies, everything from a seven person startup to a billion dollar, now 40 billion dollar unicorn. And it didn't really matter where I worked. It was always kind of felt like chaos, especially in those highly competitive environments. So, you know, when employers have control over their schedules, right? Like we really don't have much control over our schedules in the workplace. You know, we only get two weeks a year vacation in America. So I really think it's their responsibility to provide the space for this and employees should be able to opt into it, which isn't necessarily forced on them. For us, we really want it to feel nourishing and empowering, right? Like my goal is not for people to meditate with me, one on one forever. It'll, it's a, it's a flow. So hopefully people will feel comfortable at some point going off and doing on their own. And I still go back to my teachers because for me sitting in silence, guiding and being guided are different experiences for me. And they're all very important. So we started working with Spotify a couple years ago and they have an amazing wellness program. And we were really, really aligned, you know, they said that there was no recording because we wanted, we really designed every experience for psychological safety, right? If it's a mental until health program, the whole experience needs to be designed for that. So we don't want people recorded. We want people to feel like they can speak freely that it's a safe space. And when they leave the room, you know, it's all going to be dandy. So we did workshops, you know, on hypnosis, we did digital well-being. They have an amazing meditation training program that they were doing. And I just feel like, especially now with the pandemic and endemic, you know, everyone, you're lucky if you have one person you can talk to. But everyone's going through something right now. So we really have to double down on self-care, really in expanding our support systems because, you know, unfortunately, we don't all live in community or tribes anymore. But when we did it, it was so powerful because at any given moment, someone's going to be having a great day and someone's going to have a depressing moment. And that's just the flow of life. So when you have a support system in place, everyone kind of can handle whoever's going through what, you know, it's not, there's not like we can put something, we tend to put everything on, you know, a parent or put everything on our romantic partner. But I really believe building that system's important. So in the workplace too. And so yeah, we've been doing meditation, breathwork, really loved doing the group sessions with Clarna. So the company I worked for in Sweden, I'm now teaching the meditation, which is fun. This team won team of the year. And so they were all, you know, super smart, really great. And I kicked off their team building session in the beginning with meditation. But really important to provide context as to what meditation is. And also I usually kick it off prompting them like what does meditation mean to you? What was your first experience? Have you done it before? So that way we're right away dismantling any performance anxiety or maybe they had a bad experience, you know, I don't know, very loud teacher who knows or it was intimidating or something like that. So I like to create this co-creative workshop because then it becomes very empowering for everyone. And they were able to connect on a very, you know, wonderful way and a way that felt comfortable. And I think that's what's so amazing about is we don't, you know, we don't have to give all of our family, you know, trauma away in these sessions. It's much more about, you know, just being a little bit vulnerable and learning to be brave. And when you get to be brave with your colleagues, I mean, of course, you know, of course they want team of the year. So I really think it's powerful in the workplace. There's just so much potential and I actually help other practitioners like a consult with them on how to work in the work setting and put together workshops that way they are able to produce whatever they do on retreats in a workplace setting. I think that's so important. And I do also believe that to have these types of practices in the workforce, which is obviously a more professional environment, of course, it makes sense to dial down on maybe the spirituality element of it because at the end of the day, you know, I think what companies and people at these companies are gaining from these practices is just learning, like you said, how to be they're more brave and courageous self, be a bit more vulnerable and, you know, learn how to make better decisions because mindfulness and meditation helps you to better regulate your emotions and your responses and work is stressful. Like at the end of the day, no matter what you're doing for work, where you're working, it's really about who you're working with because you're interacting with people and it can be really difficult when you're dealing with challenging people and you need to learn how to communicate well with others, especially when there's differences and challenges and and areas of tension that arise. Also, COVID really was like this catalyst for the term, like workplace wellness or wellness in the workplace because we were all forced to work from home. We were lacking human connection because we were isolated in our homes and our apartments. We weren't in that physical space in the office setting with others and then there was just this issue with work-life balance because now all of the sudden, you're not commuting anywhere and you're sitting in front of a computer screen for 12 hours a day and you're you can be just constantly glued to it and feel like there's no fine line between your home life and your working life. So I think it's really multifaceted, you know, how workplace wellness emerged in the role that it's played in shaping the mental health of their employees at whichever companies that you've been at. I work for Accenture and something that I really love about the company is that they really place value in wellness and mental wellness for their employees because, you know, I found that when I'm working with a really great team, I feel empowered, I feel inspired and I actually like the work that I'm doing even if it's not like the functional role I love, I end up liking the work because I like being around the people and it's more challenging to find that sense of joy and fulfillment when maybe you're working with someone who you you clash a little bit with or you don't feel that same sense of connection. So I love that you and Avi who is also a guest on the show are changing that space and making their making there be a place in this environment to focus on bettering ourselves in this way. Yeah, you know, what I've noticed is companies tend to be more fear based so they they're afraid of being seen as the cause of burnout, right? And this is a systemic society issue. So I'm, you know, everyone always turns to Google and it's like, wow, Google hasn't met amazing wellness program, but I can't wait for every company to start talking openly about the programming that they're doing and you know, I was reading articles about like I think it was Goldman Sachs and Banks about, you know, they couldn't attract talent right out of college like they kept raising the salaries and that wasn't working and then we're offering perks and that wasn't working and I thought a lot about this because as an entrepreneur, that was always very exciting to me also as a young person one because I'm an artist at heart. I love freedom of creative expression, but you know, at this point in my life, if someone were like, hey, I'm going to give you a month of vacation a year. You only have to work nine to four. You can take an hour lunch break. I'm going to personally make sure that I am help you in your personal development and professional development and I want you to, you know, prioritize your health over the work and we'll always talk about it. You know, if you need to, and let's create some dream work. Like if that situation happened and I have more or less worked in one or two companies that were like that, right? Like healthy work environments. I'd be like, "sime up, man." Because being an entrepreneur is not easy, right? It's like pick your struggle. Struggle, you know, nine to five or you can struggle as an entrepreneur, but I think that's why young people so badly want to be entrepreneurs is because we're basically saying, uh-uh, no more toxic abuse in the in the work environment. No more hierarchy, no more saying, you know, there was this term when I started, you have to pay your dues. And I was, you know, I was very much a goody-to-shoes growing up like my rebellious side didn't come out. So I was 30. So, you know, I moved to New York City right after college, to state school in Florida and just seemed like everyone was overwhelmed all the time. It seemed like nobody really had mentors in the workplace. And so I just thought that that's how it was. Like I really was like, "up, this is what I, you know, what I have to put up with for a couple years to quote unquote pay my dues." And then I realized, you know, a few years later, like, "Oh no, that's an unhealthy work environment." You know, like, it takes a very, very, very, very, very strong, even the strongest, like, organizing my, some of my friends are organizational psychologists. And it's like, even the strongest person in the world, you put them in an unhealthy work environment, they will fail. Well, I love that. You brought up this terminology around self-awareness and the importance of mentor figures. And I wanted to ask about, you know, how can you, as an individual, bring greater wellness into the workplace if you're in a more toxic work environment or there isn't a, like, structured corporate wellness program at the company that you're at? And would you say that there's some sort of relationship between the ability to have mentor figures in your life? Does that impact your ability to bring more wellness for yourself into your own work environment? Oh, definitely. Like, I'm wondering if, you know, your listeners can relate to this, but for me, it really felt like I had all these adults kind of on my side, my whole life, you know, up until age, maybe college felt like a little bit different, but really up until 22 adults were there for you. And then you go out into the working world and it's like, adults suddenly are like, see you as a threat or when you're supposedly an adult, although you're like kind of still a kid and and you are an adult, but you're not. It's like it's weird, you know, side of things. So I just remember, and I think we talked about this when we met, but just so badly wanting to meet a woman who had kids that was working, was going to say like, "Everything's going to be okay. Like, don't worry about it." Like, because it was just the work life world, it was just such a foreign concept. Like, it really is like dropping in like a third-world country or, you know, it's just such an different environment than this beautiful supportive environment that we grew up in as kids. And everyone's out for themselves. It felt like. So I think that finding mentors or having elders, this is talked a lot about for people in leadership and startup founders are always, they always say, you know, oh, you definitely should get a coach, always have a coach. But I think anyone at any point should have mentors, elders, you know, whether it's an intern uncle or I have some really loving family members, but they can't relate to my work life, right? Like they grew up in a very different time. So I had to find people who could support me there on my journey. And yeah, I really think mentors, teachers, it's helping bring back the way, you know, societies and other parts of the world live, which is truly in community. You know, you have elders that are respected dearly and because of that, they live to be 100, right? Like in America, we have this view that you just die in a lot of pain and disease. And I really believe that a lot of that is because we're not respecting our elders. Imagine if, you know, like we all just like, like in other societies, like just really respected the wisdom of our elders, they wouldn't be put in old folks homes, you know. So then for themselves, basically. So I think just really understanding how community works and our sort of how we can also support each other would be that's sort of my vision. And I've seen, you know, I lived in Sweden and I've seen other places in Costa Rica, like I've seen beautiful international communities where people are very much intentional. So these places do exist. They just haven't talked about as much on podcasts and stuff. Right. That's interesting that you kind of bring up this cross-cultural dimension towards understanding communities and like how we treat our elders and, you know, the roles that mentor figures can play in our lives. I do think that it's important to have multiple different types of mentor figures in your life because they may serve different purposes. And, you know, I'm really happy that you bring up this concept around building self-awareness and having mentors in your life because they're there to like champion you on. And especially in the working world, if you don't feel like you have someone on your side when being in corporate America can feel like everyone's kind of, you know, out to fend for themselves, if you don't have someone there to support you in that way, it can feel really hard, you know, doing your job. And there can definitely be feelings maybe have self-doubt or unhappiness. And it's crazy really to think about how much, you know, our livelihoods and our work can impact our mental health and our happiness and our well-being. So it does really go back to this point around bringing greater structure into the workplace that focuses on wellness and giving employees resources for what they can do to take better care of their mental health, ensuring psychologically safe environments where people feel like they can, you know, bring their ideas to the table and are given, you know, the space to share their opinions and, you know, have a voice because an in valuing and, you know, knowing that others will value their voice, I think is also equally as important as well. So it's all very interconnected and I, in a way, even though COVID was, you know, horrible and we've been living through very difficult times, it's kind of like a wake-up call to the importance of bringing greater wellness into the workplace. But I want to transition a little bit away from that and talk more about some other interesting work that you do beyond being a meditation instructor and doing corporate wellness. I know that you also help to lead women's circles and that is something that is very new to me and I'm not sure that many my listeners may be familiar with what women's circles are. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, what is a woman's circle and what can people expect from it and what do they typically gain from these experiences? So I hadn't actually attended any till maybe a couple of years ago. I think myself like most are like, what is it? Like is it group therapy? Maybe is what people think or is it, you know, a bunch of male bashing or is it a bunch of gossip, you know, like our mind can go in so many directions when it's the unknown. And also similarly, people will be like, oh, a part of women's circles, you should join. And they never really provided much context and it is hard to explain, but I will do my best to do that today because I like the challenge. But I really do believe that when women come together intentionally, it's very nourishing and same with men, right? Like when men come together, it's very nourishing. It's just like we've been doing this from a lenia, right? Like women would be sitting around singing, cooking, weaving, co-parenting, you know, like often sometimes women would even be breastfeeding other people's children. So it's in our DNA for us to come together and enjoy ourselves. With the intention of relaxation, you know, enjoying ourselves, reconnecting to ourselves, because often, you know, therapy is incredible. I, you know, it was very powerful when I started and I kind of go on and off because I have other forms of support. I like doing lots of, you know, dancing and yoga and hypnotherapy. So I have other forms of, in agriculture, you know, have other forms of stuff. And I also have my own, you know, self-awareness, journaling practice. But when you come together as a group in the circle, it's in our DNA, you know, like the circle itself shows that we're all equal, right? There's not one person on a pedestal. And tribally, like your backs are facing, you know, the forest. So, you know, you literally all have each other's backs and you can make eye contact with everyone. I remember the first time I sat in a circle, the sort of two thoughts, two thoughts sort of came up. One was like, oh, this is like an AA. Because that's always the in the media, right? It's like, there, it's like, once you hit rock bottom, then all of them come together. And it's like, man, there's a few steps before that that you could come together and enjoy yourself. Like, you shouldn't have to, like, circling up should not be only kindergarten or kids. And AA, like, this just doesn't make sense. So, and like horses do the same thing. Like they'll all circle up. Like this is just like a very, like, you know, primal thing. And so I think that's part of it. There's something nice about sitting on the ground, too. It's very grounding. I remember I didn't spend any time on the ground until I got into meditation and yoga. And I would have these like visceral memories of my childhood, of gymnastics and playing the dirt, because I literally hadn't spent time on the ground for like decades. Unless I was like maybe playing with a child or something. So there's something really powerful about that. And then just creating a space for us to, it's almost like a recommitment of, I like to almost consider it like a vow. So a lot of times we think of vows in terms of marriage vows. But how beautiful is it is that, you know, maybe your first vow is to, you know, support and love your, and be a champion for yourself and for all the women around you. Like how special is that? If that's your vow. And then just continue making other vows. And when we want to make changes, when we're not happy with how things are going, we have to change how we're doing things. So I think, you know, I always have, I struggle with, I still struggle with negative self-talk. And I think, you know, one voice that sometimes, you know, I have to dismiss thankfully. But it'll say like, you know, don't be a show pony or who do you think you are? And that's all, you know, unhealthy post system thinking, right? Because we want to celebrate one another. We want to shine our light. And that inspires other people to shine the light. And so it's really dismantling all those judgments and try to understand where they're coming from. It's coming from the sphere of like, you know, scarcity that there's not enough, there's not enough, like we're all, you know, trying to grab the same resources. So if she gets all the light, there's no light for me and that's not true at all. So yeah, really, I love when women celebrate each other and often I'll make like yummy chocolate truffles and it's really, I think the easiest format, honestly, you don't have to be a facilitator. You know, that's what I love. Like, it's probably helpful to join one, if you think so, but you could just do it on your own with three girlfriends. As a kid, I love those movies, you know, y'all, y'all, sisterhood and sisterhood of the traveling pants. I never had a sister, but I feel like I'm everyone else's sister. So, sisterhood of the traveling pants is so great. And I guess maybe you bring that up because there's a scene where they're like sitting in an attic or like an old dance studio or maybe it was like the Pilates studio that their moms went to when they were all pregnant. That's what it was. And they'd come together in a circle and like gather around. So I guess are you saying like these are things we can just do with our friends, like just gather and just have like conversation, essentially? Yeah. And just pick like one little nugget of wisdom or one topic, you know, like maybe one thing I like to talk a lot about is this is maybe not a first time conversation unless everyone's feeling great but I I love to pick to sort of when I'm ready to share it, 'cause you have to be understanding what a boundary is, personal boundary, and what your edge is when you're ready to get out of your comfort zone for growth, but boundary is not good to cross boundaries usually. So my edge is whatever I'm feeling shameful about, right? 'Cause soon as you can name it, it sort of loses all of its power. So as we'll go around circle and some will say, I feel so ashamed if I haven't shaved my legs. And it's like, why? Why? I doubt anyone's paying attention, you know? And so saying that out loud, you realize how silly of a thought that is and how the ideal of being perfect is trickling. And again, I used to be really ashamed of my nail. I think as women, we just, we have so much pressure to be perfect, and it's so unconscious. But like if I had a broken nail, I'd be so ashamed if I had like one broken nail, or that's all physical stuff. And it can be, you know, other stuff like that. Or yeah, just everyone, you know, comes together and talks about, you know, what their dreams are. And everyone have the intention of supporting each other and however they can. I think it's really important to name our dreams and speak them into existence. 'Cause how else can the world help us if we aren't? Actually saying like, yeah, I really, I would love to learn how to meditate or would love to learn, would love to go to Hawaii one day, even, right? Like this was something I never even spoke into existence, so it never happened. - Yeah, I mean, that's been a dream vacation of mine is to go to Hawaii, so maybe one day if I keep speaking it into existence, that it'll happen. But, you know, it really does sound like it's an opportunity to speak consciously about certain topics that are important to you and also just creating a safe and open space to do so. So, you know, where would you recommend maybe some, my listeners, if they're interested, to start looking for women's circles or, you know, where can they find more resources on that? - Yeah, you know, I think this is like definitely, it could be a business opportunity, honestly, but if there's definitely a need, it's usually through word of mouth. I think like if anyone feels inspired to just, again, starting your own, it could just be a dinner party and there'd be like one question at the dinner, really start asking around and thankfully, within meditation world and wellness world, it's much more common. So I would say like go to the yoga studio, go to these places and slowly but surely, maybe find one or ask for one and they'll start one. And I think that it's just, it's such a special, like I just met up yesterday with a friend who's a OB-GYN and she was like, I really want it, like I really want to have it once a month, like when you're gonna host again. And even when I, you know, I sometimes like go overboard and preparing food and like I, hopefully Italian and me, I'm all about like hosting and being hospitable and so there was one day, I was actually a little bit frazzled and I wasn't sure everyone enjoyed it as much as I would have liked. But then the next day I got all of these texts. It's just most beautiful love notes. I feel like thank you so much. This was exactly what I needed. I feel so regenerated. Like I was nervous, but this was like so amazing. And like, and it's like, all right, like I'm not the only one craving mess, you know, like we all and people could take turns, you know, it doesn't have to be the same person hosting each time. - Right, exactly. Well, you know, maybe we can end with a little women's circle moment here. So one question that I ask every single guest that comes onto the podcast is what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins. So I guess this is what our final conversation can be centered around is thinking about, you know, what brings you happiness in your day-to-day life? - Yeah, I think I'm just because so much of my life for many, many years, you know, over 10 years was, 12 years was working in an environment that wasn't in alignment. But now, you know, any time I teach, anytime, anywhere, it feels so good for me. And it's just, it's that saying of like, do what you love and you want work a day in your life. Like I really believe that now. And I used to not think that that was true. So I get so much endorphins from leading a meditation. Sometimes I'll just be like, especially in person, like I'll just be like super high afterward. It's like almost a altered state, actually, like just I feel, so like I can just feel everybody's energy left at the end of a meditation. So and then I feel responsible for it. So that feels good. But yeah, I would say that. And I've also noticed that mornings that I don't have my, yeah, yummy, nourishing morning routine. So I like to do a morning walk in nature as soon as I wake up. And then I meditate and then, you know, I have my matcha. I actually have my matcha before I go. But for me, the biggest game changer this year, this past year has been getting in nature immediately in the morning and not talking to anyone and not emailing, but just allowing nature to those sounds, you know, that the sounds are just so healing for us to hear. Just birds hearing is very, very powerful. It seems gentle, but it's very, very powerful. And yeah, the days that I don't have that, I definitely feel it. So really grateful to be able to do that. Yeah, nature is really healing. And I think I just saw recently, like an article or something circulating in the news around how I can't remember, like which maybe it was like a specific state or a country. I can't remember, but some area, like recently, made it so that doctors can like medically prescribe patients to go like forest bathing. I don't know if you've seen this. But now it's like actually like in physicians and doctors like vernacular to like actually be able to prescribe forest bathing and like spending time in nature is a form of treatment and therapy. And it makes sense because it's incredibly powerful. I've noticed that the days that I'm able to wake up and get outside of my apartment first thing and like be in the sunlight, step outside, even though New York is not a very nature, centric environment being in the middle of a city, you can still just be outside and be in the sun and maybe walk to a park and people watching. I think you can find therapeutic effects from that as well. But there was really nothing like last summer when I was fully submerged in nature and Indonesia. As I know you're familiar with given that you did your teacher training in Bali as well. So that was the pinnacle for me of what it meant to literally wake up and be amidst a rice patty. And amidst these beautiful bamboo leaves and just be fully into and with the environment around you. So I felt it then and it's something I'm trying to bring into my day to day life now of like replicating that feeling. But I think your answers are so wonderful. And it was such a pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. I love listening to podcasts. I think I listened for many years. I started actually in Bali and Thailand on long Van journeys, two, three hour journeys. And that was when I got into podcasts. So it's really a special platform that we have. And you're an amazing host. How cool that you have a show. So thank you. And where can my listeners find you on social media? Yes, social media is just my name, Cassandra_Bianco_. And then my website, CassandraBianco.com. So I work one on one. I'm kind of like a meditation coach, if you will. If anyone ever wants to go travel the world alone, especially as a woman, I'm your girl. I can help you figure out how to do that 'cause I was just as terrified to do that, but knew I had to do that. And it was the biggest gift I've ever given myself. And yeah, we do online sessions as well. Group, I have a cool program called Masters and Mystic. So I hire all my favorite coaches, teachers. So you get to learn a little bit about everything and the sort of different modalities, but from really amazing, special people. Well, you're doing so many incredible things. And I will definitely encourage my listeners to go check all of this out because it is so fascinating what you're doing. And I am inspired by how you navigated those career transitions in your life. And I value how much meditation is an important practice in your life. So thank you for sharing all of your wisdom today. And thanks again for being a guest on the show. Thank you. (upbeat music) Thank you for listening. And remember to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things that bring you endorphins every day. See you next time. (upbeat music)