Ep 63. Saudi Women Changing the Narrative with Rawan Al-Turki: Photography, Culture & Life in Jeddah

Welcome to Saudi Life Unpacked, the podcast where we literally unpack the expert life in Saudi Arabia. Moving to Saudi Arabia can feel like an unknown. We are here to demystify the desert and explore the vibrant and dynamic experiences of experts living in the kingdom. I'm Frankie and I'm Lily and we are here to answer your burning questions about being an expert in Saudi as well as shining a light on the many positive aspects of living and working in this fascinating part of the world. Let's get started. Today we have a lovely row one and you born in Jeddah, I have lived in Jeddah your whole life. Yes. This is oh wow okay. Because we love coming to Jeddah but I always feel like it's extra special when we interview someone that has just lived here their entire life and not. Because I feel like especially in Saudi Saudi is kind of come and go different spate they spend time in America they spend the time in the UK they spend time if they're in Jeddah in Riyadh but someone that's really lived and thrived here is extra special. Oh thank you so much. You're mostly welcome here into the. Oh thank you. Hopefully you went to all the sightseeing. We haven't but tell us because so every time we come we get jam packed and so lovely marium always books out on schedule or when we're in Jeddah. So we don't get to go to like the touristy or the all the secret hidden gems. So like al-Balad's. Yeah. This is the most special place in Jeddah so you have to go we have only two two places to go. Beach and the billet so you have to go. They're pretty good options. Yes. Let's be honest. Yeah exactly. And what is the ballot for someone that doesn't know? It's the downtown the old city of Jeddah how they used to live there and then they have the special unique architecture. They have a lot of windows made of wood so because you know we're here in a humid city and then most of the days the weather is not that nice. It's really humid. So they used to make the windows with open spaces they call it roshan. Okay. And this is what we are known of. We have two two malls. It's called roshan mall and roshan mall because of the windows of these historical places and there's. It's just a little triangle. No. It's something that they they put on the windows like a shadows you know but it's made from wood and they are crafted in a special way so it looks like a piece of art and at the same time it helps to protect the the weather from the. Yeah. Because in Alula, old town which is I haven't been to Ababa. Yeah. In Alula, old town when you're walking through the streets they have these like the windows that like they'll be green and they're like painted and they'll have like art on them. Is this the same? No. There's different areas. It's different. This is the beautiful thing of Saudi Arabia that every every area it has her own culture and signature. Yeah. So in Jada here we are known for these Rewashin. Yeah. And you have to go there. There is Betna-Syf. This is the most famous one. This is the secret restaurant. No. No. No. This is the house. Okay. It's in the center of El Beled and everyone I think they have a small museum inside as well. There is some of the family, the big families in Jada here. They have some their houses been renovated right now so you can just go visit. And some of them they change it to Buti Kutels. I went to three of them. One of them has a sauna inside it. See it's from 200 years or something like that and then they have a special sauna in the house. So it's it's it's it's it's really beautiful. So you're and I'm listening to you now you're approaching things with I guess a true artist's eye you know talking about the detail in the windows and all these stuff. So we should introduce you probably. You are a photographer. Yes. And photography is obviously deeply tied to your perspective here of Jada. What do you think about you know your role in Jada and taking photos? What do you strive to kind of storytelling in what you capture with your photos? Okay. I started photography since 2010. We were like very few. And Jada was taking photos. I love the style of Vogue magazine and El and Harpzaar you know these styles. So I wanted to take some of the photos but it would be for me or my friends whatever. I didn't study photography. Oh what did you study? Marketing. Okay. We study major but you know when you like something and you start self-totting. So What it becomes a passion. It becomes a passion. And then after that you you have to take like another course is so you can just shape this thing because we can find a lot of things but back in the time 2010 you can't find anything. YouTube. Yeah and also because I also worked in PR marketing back in Dubai. This would have been seven years ago. And I remember the first photo shoots coming to Saudi Arabia. And the first like it wasn't a place that you'd come necessarily for the fashion magazine. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. I remember them coming over. But we have we have a lot of local businesses, the Saudi designers. They used to do nice things and you know it's not properly shown to the people. So if I want to buy something and I can't show it. And then some of the designers they used to go to London to show their designers and one of my photos went there and it was on one of the magazines and one of the posters they used to put and she sent me. They want this is your picture. It was there and it was like amazing. This was in 2013. So here in Jeddah everything is inspiring you because if you want you want to go to the fish market because we are known here for the fishing. You can find amazing thing to shoot the red sea you know vibrant. Yeah and then we have also the bullet which is main so many areas. We have the gold the gold soup. You have the areas where you can buy all the accessories and bags accessories. So dresses whatever you want. And then you have the area where is the historical things that you want just like museums and the boutique hotels that they made and it was really homes for some people. So you can see the high ceiling and you can see the nice vibes and it's it contains maybe four rooms or three rooms that's it. But with the whole renovation that's been done by the government it's really amazing. So you go there and I did two photo shoots over there. Yeah we the lady's fashion no it was personal. Friends, a group of women they they wanted just to go and embrace the the bullet thing. They used to wear the the hijazi gowns. We have special gowns for maca and madina and this is the hijaz thing. So it's totally different the culture from maca to madina. It's like a different thing the bride wears pink dress. Wow and we went there in a bullet and they were like you know in Disneyland when when all the girls were dressed up. So all the people were looking at us. Why? Yeah they were wearing six girls wearing different kinds of colors and it was amazing you know they're they're just we took amazing pictures I can show with two later on. I love the pictures for everyone listening. Yeah. So because this is one of the things we love so much about Saudi across the board is the true heritage that showcased in a very modern twist. So you know Saudis changing very quickly and it's very exciting but the roots are so important in Saudi. How do you find that when you're doing a photography? Do you find there's a good mix of modern and heritage and are you playful with that or definitely we can we have we have to play with this and because we live in Jeddah Jeddah is not like any other places in Saudi Arabia why. You know a lot of visitors comes here because of the head you know and they went to maca and madina so million of visitors they come here and there are from different cities and cultures so when you see me you can tell that I'm from Saudi and this is how the mixture happened in Jeddah a lot of families they married from different cities and cultures so the roots are like yeah so true. We talked about this with another guest or air episode because obviously yeah it was the boats coming in. Exactly all around the world and then the port being here where they'd stop and then obviously there was a mix of people here and so then as you go closer into the desert. You know, it's like a cliff. Yeah. So we're more welcoming here. Definitely all all Saudis. I'm the other one coming in. They're friendly and nice. But in Jada, you can feel it extra because we were yeah, we're used to it since we were like kids. Yeah. So this is I'm not talking about myself only. It's all the way back to our grandparents and since I don't know what. Yeah. Yeah. Many minutes ago. So when it comes to photography, you can mix. We have a lot of artists here. So you can see many artworks and then when you mix it between the heritage and then you things that happened, it gives you beautiful artwork. There's always a lot of ideas. And you do this for CG, this for personal, like he said, with these ladies. I do it for fashion because this is what I I begot with. Yeah. And then I started to to see what what I want to do else. So I took it to another level and then I started to do person and photo shoots. So my friends or anyone would have a special idea to to to be photo shooted in. We do the same thing. We put the mood board and we create the whole story for them and we just shoot it. And then things. So how has this got to the collaboration you're doing now? We've under the abeyer. So the exhibition. It's called through her eyes. Yeah. You're doing it. And so you can explain it better than I could possibly try to. But it's about experiencing say, jettah through your eyes as a female. Apparently they give you a phone. Can you talk to us about them? Yes. We received the phone. To create some beautiful images. They wanted us to expose jettah how we would like all the people to see it. I went to a ballot and we took some pictures over there. The the thing was to do whatever you want. It's like a street style. It has to be like natural. I did two parts. The first part was in El Beled with the under the abeyer with Maria, you know, definitely. And then the other one, I won that I took them to the fish market. Oh, that's why you said that. I'm not going to lie to you. If my head when you said about the fish market I was thinking I can't picture this but this is not right. No, but do you know what? We just had a guest on before you and they were saying how they saw so that they have a taco truck but they were saying how they saw so a lot of their produce from the fish market. And I said to the guy who's also a digital producer, how amazing would it be to get some content from the fish market? What an experience. I wanted to go out of the box because whenever it comes to jettah, all the people either they go to the ballot or the beach. Yeah, really. And the most well-known food that we are knowing of is the fish. The fish. So I was like hesitating at the beginning because I've never been there. Oh, I can't really show my face. This was my first. It's usually the men's duty to go to the fish market because I don't know how to buy. I know the fish because my husband is a fisherman. Oh, yeah. Your husband is a fisherman and you've never been to the fish market. Yeah, I mean he's into fishing. That's our fishing. That's what the pictures with the big ones. Yes. I've experienced some of the things with him but I've never been there. I just only cook the food and maybe eat the food. That's it. How was it? Like what did you get the pictures you envisaged? Did they go with different ways? Because it was more fishy than you were. It was more fishy than I expected. But I think they loved it. It's really beautiful and it's as I told you out of the box you have to experience this but the thing, the major thing that faced us, it was all men. So we were me and the model. We were the only ladies at the place at that time. You can find a lot of girls. Yeah. We went at the time where's less crowded so we can just go there and be ourselves. And then for the project we want to focus on the ladies that we have, the amazing ladies that we have in Jeddah because this is the whole point that you want to expose who inspires you here. And at the same time we want to show it in a beautiful way. We want to show our beautiful country the whole thing that's been happening in a very, very minimal year. With a phone. Was that a child for you as a photographer? He's probably going out there with your big. At night? Yes. But in the morning? No. It's easy because I love to take photos with my phone all the time. So I use to travel a lot and then I have a lot of pictures with the phone because I can't carry my big camera all the time. It's really hard when you travel especially. You can't leave it anywhere. Back in the days I was traveling and then I told my husband can I let someone take a picture? He told me okay, he can take a picture unless you want him to take the camera and you never see it back. And now especially with all the technology that 's happening in the phone, it can do a lot of things to you. You can manage the depth of field, you can manage the exposure. So these things are really important in the picture because it's not only a good camera that shape the photo that you have. Yani, if you don't have the right angles and the good eye to show what you want, this is how many things. So do you find I'm so intrigued as well. So going to a fish market I'm still - would people look at you because you are two females walking into a fish market? Do you ever feel because obviously you know we had a lady on as well who was saying that things have changed so much for her in business over the last few years and Saudi suddenly opened up females and it's such a big change. So do people come and have conversations with you about it? Yeah. I think we're good. I did another photo shoot with a motorbikeer. The first female motorbikeer I think here and she's a teacher. And she was - I was standing in the middle of the road. It was not that crowded and it was at 9am so no one comes nearby. And then she was just going around and then I saw just one of the men passing by and there was a security with him. So I was like, oh my god is he going to talk to us right now or what? And then he came. Oh you know how to drive this thing? She said yes definitely I'm riding it already. Some people come cheering up for you and really like this. Yeah, encouraging not to bother the people you know. It's fun sometimes because you can see that they've seen something strange and the most important thing that they're not bothering us you know. It's not like harassing or something. They're just interesting. Yeah they're interested because it's never been there before. Do you love taking photos of these kind of stories whether it's the first - was she the first female motorbikeer? That's what she told me but I've never seen a mentor as a motorbikeer. I think it's always men. So when you can find a lot of stories with these women. Yeah like the divers. When I say we were maybe maybe I don't know but me and my friend we were some of the first females to photo shoot outdoors here in Jinder because literally back in the 2010 no one used to go outside and took photos and we used to go like 8 am so no one can come and bother us. There was no permits, no nothing. So we do the whole story of what we want and then we just go back. Yeah, yeah to take and there was no models. Yeah, yeah. We used to bring the flight attendance. Are you really? Yeah, because it was not that. Yeah, there was no industry. And so obviously that industry is growing and the industry of female photographers. Yeah, female photographers and the designers and where we're really the fashion world here in Ruyon. Yeah, really? Yeah, yeah. Do you have any advice for a young Saudi woman that wants to be a photographer? I mean there's so many stories to tell, story photography in the gender and other cities. Is that something you think they should be focusing on or should they be? What would you be? Really? I'm happy with what's happening because I didn't use to mingle around a lot with the young generations in the market. But I've been meeting some people right now and then they're really young and they're really amazing. They have special artwork and they're. they have the chance now especially there there's a lot of educational panels here to be. working with, not like the days before. It's beautiful that they are in this industry. - You're also going to be an inspiration to so many young girls because you were the first and you've done these amazing imagery. Like you just have to look at your Instagram and you can see the half as bizarre and then you know such incredible content and pictures working like a say in PR marketing back in the day here. We would be sitting into buy and we'd do the marketing campaigns for a brand. And the heads would be blurred out and the models would be just in these very like, not very inspiring images. And now when we see these images of Saudi, it's like it's ignited. Like it's these beautiful clothes and these beautiful like cover shoots with Saudi girls. - And it's like what we never say. - You know, we never expected that it's going to be like this. But it's really make us proud when we see these beautiful things. And someone like Maryam who encourages all these females to do such a thing, I see it. It's really in spiral, you know, because we have met a lot of people through Andeida Abaya and this project through her eyes is literally telling us how to introduce each other to empowering. And we met a lot of artists and you can't know that there exists especially they don't live in big cities. So this is really creative. We can't find it a lot. Maybe because we live in Jeddah and some of the photographers live in Riyadh and maybe Al-Hobar Shargiya. So it's like the main cities. But when you see it, it's from the small cities and villages. - Amen. - It shows that there's a lot of things going on in Saudi. - Not just in the big cities. - Exactly. And this encourage all the young generation just do whatever you like. - An inaccessible way. You don't have to be the professional photographer. You don't have to have a lot of money. - I learned that it's not about the equipment. You have the passion and you have the eye and you know how to work with pretty things. It's just coming through your eyes. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Beauty and beauty. - Yes, yes. - Yes, yes. - Yes, so you're fit. - So there are so many, like you said, so many stories to tell in Saudi. Whether it's just for the big cities or or out in the little villages that aren't as prominent. What kind of stories do you want to be telling next? Is there other ones that you haven't uncovered yet? - I wanted to do this project. I wanted to travel to other cities like maybe Abha or I didn't go to Al-Ralala, but yeah, I want to go this. I don't know when. - You don't have a time. - You have a time. Yeah, I'll get there. This is what we want to show people. We want to show them the beauty of Saudi Arabia. As you said, there is a lot of different stories that has not been told. We have a lot of historical places. Maybe there is some other cultures that we didn't see yet. This is what we want to show people that the beauty of all of these things in here. In the country, we're not saying because we're always divided into five major areas. So usually from the hijaz, it's very long and big area. It's from the north to south. So it would be amazing if I just go and get there. - I want like an adventure. - Yes. - And go all around. - This is what I was thinking of. It would be really beautiful. For me to educate myself and also to educate people and inspire them to show them. Because a lot of people, they are seeing our fashion now and they're loving it. And they see our food and they love it as well. So it's not just only about food and places. I think it's about people as well. - Do you think that's the end goal for your narrative? The end goal for your photos is to be able to show the people of the art. - Yes, this is the most important thing I think in photography because it's all about emotions. You know, if it's just blank, there's no emotions. It's not going to be as much as beauty. As when you take it live, this is my specialty. I like to take photos when people they're not noticing. - Yeah. - Because you can really show this emotion. Even when we do fashion photography, there is a mood board and if it's not just a regular photo shoot, it's an editorial or anything. It's like a play. You can see it in the advertisements and so on. They usually do some video clips and there's a story behind it. So in real life, definitely there is much more than this. And for the people that they who are not exposed, you know, to this civilized life and our fast life, you know, with what's happening in the city, definitely they have a lot of beautiful stories behind it. - For sure. And I think as well, one of our kind of slogans for Saudi life unpacked is demystifying the desert. And that's talking to people like yourself, but it's also showing like with Saudi that there is vibrancy everywhere. So whether it's the pink flowers that is in tape or. - Wow. - So you have the people but doing something true to your heritage or like you say an outfit, what they're wearing is relevant to that area. I think, because Saudi has so many misconceptions on. It's just the desert, lots of camels. - Exactly. - Very dirty. - The giga projects. - And you know, my cousin used to work the US Embassy and Washington. They went on school trips. One of them, they asked them, "You're from Saudi, yes. Do you have oil, oil loves and your houses? And do you go with camels intense?" And she said, she was like shocked at the beginning. - No, we have civilized life. We do a lot of houses and we have malls. We have restaurants and we have everything. It's like, this is the most hilarious thing ever. Whenever they used to hear Saudi, they. - That was very. - The camel, the tent and then the oil world. - Your imagery is here to show us that that is not the case. - Yeah. Well look, I think that's just a really lovely journey that you're going through to kind of showcase these amazing places in Saudi and the stories and the people. I mean, what a passion to have. - Can you take a picture of us? - Yes, sure. - That's a good photo. - I want to go somewhere totally random that you'd never expect to, expat girls to be here. - Yeah, yeah. - And we need to capture the moment. Because I think if we're not talking enough and I'm focusing with you right now, you've been seeing, looking at me, I will be holding my camera. And then my phone's specially and then I'm going to take some pictures. It's always happening. - True. - To capture the moment. - This is the goal is not to pose. - Yeah. - Just be yourself. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Because you took some beautiful images of Mary and we were looking for you before. - Oh yeah. - We were in the traditional dress. - Yeah. - And just beautiful. So maybe one day we'll come back and we can have some time. - Yeah sure. - Yeah. - Sure. - Definitely. - It'll be as ledger. - No, I was so lovely to meet you and thank you for anything. - Thank you so much. - Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we did recording it. And please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe on your favourite podcast platform. 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