Ep 605 - Arctic Cannibalism (feat. Buddy Levy)

- Wow, wow, wow, Wes. - All right, we're live. We're live. Body Levy, thank you for coming. It's Levy, you're Levy. - It's Levy. - Levy, hell yeah, I gotta write. Thank you for coming. Hey, my pleasure. - My pleasure. - I've been using your books to fuel the Patreon. And, well, thank you for that. - I appreciate it, man. - Dude, it's been, I mean, I guess we do have a symbiosis going here, but it's really, dude, they're, first of all, I thought, like, you know, I've read the books, and I'm like, man, this is a story, and really it's a good writer. I would like to read. I'm like, this guy can really kind of, really turn a good sentence. And then I learned, you studied as a creative writer. - Yeah, that's true. I actually published my first story when I was 14 years old, and it was a bird hunting story about me, you know, killing a chucker part, which no one knows about. But, you know, once I saw my byline for the first time, I was, you know, because I grew up in this, in the shadow of Ernest Hemingway, and catch him Idaho, and I was like, um, I just like tell him stories, you know? And it was, it was, so I, I wasn't ever good at anything else, and ended up being an English major, so I just followed that path, you know, from the time I was okay. - Well, that's, well, that's why I really liked the books, and I was talking to you before you came in here. I was like, how did I, I don't know how I heard about the book. I was like, maybe it was from someone I follow, it might have just been like a random search. I genuinely don't remember. I do think it's from the Joshua's books thing, but I forget. That was conquistador, but that was the thing I was reading it, and I'm like, man, this, this history book, it's like it, it's just focused on the narrative itself, rather than just like, it's just, I get drowned in facts reading history, where I'm like, dude, just tell me the story. Tell me the story, and then what you do is, which is nice is you give the occasional historical zinger, where it's like, actually, this thing was that, and it's like, oh, God, it's kind of cool to know. - Yeah. - I gotta say it was, I gotta tip the hat first foremost. It was, the books are great. - Well, and I've really enjoyed listening to you guys, make things like human ritual sacrifice and smallpox funny, you know? (laughing) That's, you know, 'cause when I'm writing it, I'm thinking, you know, this isn't really comedy. You guys crush it. - There is something very funny about, you know, we're talking obviously about the Aztec, the conquistador thing, but there is something just that thought was funny about, never meeting a certain type of people before, 'cause the way they like brought them into their temples, like, yo, this is cool, check this out. And it would just be like a dead dog with his skull crushed in, and like a dead kid, they're eating, and they'd be like, yeah, what the fuck, what is this? And they're like, wait, you don't think this is cool? Like, we think this is cool, and they're like, no. - No, no, no. - It's the worst thing you can do, or like, no, there's like the coolest thing you can do. And then the civilization's clashed. So it is funny to be like, yeah, I wanna show you something very important to me. We were eating teenagers, and you're like, no. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's, when I write these books too, it's always like people are like, you know, why do you focus so much on this darkness, all this stuff, you know? And I'm like, well, I just, I like to see, as you say, you know, different cultures coming together, and also what happens to people when they're on the edge of survival. Like how are they gonna contend with this new world, or this new place, and it really intrigues me to see what, you know, to what degree people, especially back then, you know, like we're able to figure it out, and just, and move on, you know. - Yeah, it's pretty, it is pretty wild, 'cause it's like, especially the food thing, and all that, like in conquistador, and all those books, like, these guys are going these missions, and like, yeah, you only have so much food, and they run out, and now it's like, we gotta drum up food in a place we've never been to. - Right. - So that, I kinda, yeah, just like, you have to, every time you wanna eat, you have to raid basically a village. Or just be like, try to be cool. - Right, yeah, that's the thing, or have slaves. It's, you know, very helpful. - That also blew my mind in terms of the conquistador. Hey, Nate, don't fucking laugh. We're talking about a different time period, and they were handy. You can't deny having 2,000 slaves would be handy to get food, Nate. We're talking history, all right? - I don't agree with it, personally, but, well, I needed food, and I had either zero or 2,000, I'd be like, I can get food, whatever, anyway. - And by the way, I used to share or code it, you know, when I was writing it, I would be like, they had 2,000 porters, and women who were making sortias. And my friend, this writer French, he goes, "Yeah, those are called sex slaves." And I'm like, they were like bearers and porters, she's like, those were slaves, they took them. - She's right. That was the, the sheer volume, this is what shocked me, 'cause it would be like, you know, I think Cortez landed with like 600 guys. - Yeah, it is. - And like 2,000 slaves, was that true? - Well, he didn't come with very many slaves, so he did bring one that had smallpox, which was useful for him. - That guy, yeah. - Yeah, but-- - Some reason I thought Cortez had a start out with a lot, and maybe I'm thinking of someone else. - Yeah, well, when he ended up doing Cortez, we ended up like recruiting that these ancillary villages, like the Totonics and the Talaskans, and he then did deals, and said, "Can I use your guys to go get this major leader, "who you call Maktuchoma, right?" - Maktuchoma. - Maktuchoma. - Maktuchoma. - I could have sworn Cortez rolled up, they had their porters. - Yeah, but they got those from the villages that they subsoomed. - Subsoom, yeah. - First guy. - Right. - So he didn't roll, it was then, I'm thinking of the Pizarros, and-- - Yeah, yeah. - That guy set out the party with like 2,000 slaves. - Yeah, but you know, at any rate, like they couldn't have done it alone, and even then they were often outnumbered significantly. - Yeah. - But they just figured out ways to manipulate terrorized. - Yeah, well, there was that story from the, and I'm gonna actually talk about this later today, but there was a story from the Gonzalo's last stand, or when he's like fighting that Spanish Civil War, he's fighting another Spaniard, and it was actually Gonzalo's slave who ran out and chopped the guy's head off. - Nice. - I just figured it around town. Like, yeah, we got it, and he had to be like, bro, why don't you do that to a fellow Spaniard? The hell are you doing? He was dancing in the end zone on the guy. He was, but yeah, it's just very, yeah, it was like the war was to stop slavery in South America, and the dude's slave cut the guy's head off who was trying to stop slavery. Yeah, it's pretty famous, like, now fuck that dude for a moment, Gonzalo's anyway. But yeah, it was definitely a complicated time, for sure. Complicated time, but that is, it is so brutal, because you are trying to get the story, but like at every turn, it is completely, and like you were saying, you're rolling around with, quote unquote, three women who make tortillas for 600 guys. They're obviously sex slaves. The guys, some of the fucking guys were probably sex slaves. (laughing) You know what I mean? It's gotta be somewhat prison rules. - Wait, it gets lonely out of the drain. (laughing) - You know what I'm talking about. But, but yeah, I just gotta say, the books are, they're nice, 'cause it is just, it's the story, it's like the thing that happened based on all the historical record, which, how, like, is that boring researching that? Like, how do you get through that? 'Cause I feel like I would kind of go crazy. - That's a great question. No, you know, when I love the research part of it, and it's like two components to it for me, there's the actual sitting there and reading everything that's ever been written, or to the extent that I can, everything that's ever been written about, the particular subject, so that I know the story, and then I start writing. But then I also, you know, I always go to the place that I'm gonna write about and do an expedition of my own, so I can make it as real and seem, like, even though I'm casting myself back, maybe 500 years, to try to be on the ground and in the environment that I'm writing about, so that I can feel the sense of the place and see the floor and fauna, and we can maybe talk about some of those expeditions that I've done, but, you know, it's, for me, it's fun to immerse in that. It's kind of like doing like a mini, a master's degree or a PhD for every book, you know, and it actually leaves a frickin' mark, you know? I mean, I'm on my tenth book, and every time it's a huge divot out of my brain, you know, because I log in for, you know, maybe six or eight months of just reading, and then I'll go on my expedition where I'm gonna go, and then I sit my ass down and spend maybe six months to a year depending just writing the book. And so, but I always find the reading part, the research part really inspiring, because, you know, I'm going back to these original texts, and they've got, you know, journals and diaries, and in the case of the Spaniards, you know, they had these scribes that were there just to record the events, and then, so you get these first and letters that they're writing back home. And so, you really get transported to these places and to the minds of the people who were there. And then, of course, you have to balance out to what extent like they're lying, or padding the story for different political reasons. And so, you're doing a bunch of sifting and deciding on which you believe, and, you know, history to me is pretty dynamic and malleable. It's not like this set thing. It depends on, you know, they say history was written by the victors, but I love it. I love that part. - This episode is brought to you by prize picks. How have I been feeling about sports lately? Ooh, boy, college basketball. Yeah, yeah, yeah, check on how Duke and Michigan are doing in the tournaments, and if they're going to win it all, I don't know. I'm liking Duke. I'll be honest, I'm liking Duke. I've been calling. I caught up in March Madness fever. I keep watching people watching on the plane. I kind of watch it while they watch it. And I like March Madness if I'm being honest. So I don't know, Duke Michigan, hmm, let's see. I don't know. I'm excited. The playoff push is heating up and tournament hoops are here. And there's no better way to cash in on the high flying hoops action than price picks where it always feels good to be right. Every bucket, every dime. And every win means more when you're playing on price picks. So don't pass up your next shot with price picks and get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. No matter your play, price picks is a great way to put your takes to the test. Just pick more or less on two to six player stat projections. If you get your picks right, you could cash in. And it's now available in all 50 states, including California, Texas, Florida, and Georgia. Download the price picks app today and use code drenched to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code drenched to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Price picks, it's good to be right. - So yes, and then in terms of the expeditions, is that like, I get it, you do it for, do like, get a sense of the place, but like, is that also just to kind of get your own adventure thing going where you're like, you know, 'cause that's kind of, 'cause you've done now, you've done the Amazon. - Yep. - Did you climb the hills and everything? - Well, I hiked over the Andes. - Dang. - So yeah, I started in, I tried to, for River of Darkness and Conquistor, I tried to follow the route of the Conquistor's, as precisely as possible, you know, using maps now. In modern day, context, it's a little different because, you know, there's more people there now. But, you know, for the Amazon, yeah, I started in Keto, did some, went on partly on horseback, partly on a bus, and then I tracked down to the headwaters of the Coca River, and then went for like three weeks in a dugout canoe with two guides and just me and two other people. And floated down the river in a dugout canoe, sleeping in the rainforest in hammocks. It was one of the coolest adventures. - Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. What was it, I do wanna go there one time, but what was it like being there and, you know, oh my God. - It's quite remarkable. I mean, to put it in context, I spent like, I think two to three weeks, including the Andes part. And by the time I finished, which was in Akito's Peru, that's just where the Maranon meets the Amazon, and so there's 20, I went 400 miles, and there's 2,300 miles more to go to the Atlantic, you know. - And that, you know, to give context, I had to look this up, that is like driving from New York City all the way to basically, I think like Idaho. - Hey, it's so far. - Yeah, it's so far. - And, you know, but it's cool because once you get out there, it's still, I mean, I floated through this Yasuni National Park, and there's so, you know, it's like one of the most biodiverse places in the world. And then you're just like, you get into this river rhythm where, you know, you float for hours, and everything starts to look the same because, you know, you're shrouded, and I need to side by these giant seabatries. And, you know, you have to wear, like, knee high rubber boots because there's ant colonies. I mean, there's so many critters that can, you know, mess you up, vampire bats. And, did you see any vampire bats? - I did, and I saw, you know, the thing is, I don't know if you remember in River of Darkness where the vampire bats are pretty intense. They come onto you at night, and they have these, like, canine in size or teeth, and they, so they pierce the skin, and then they have this anti-coagulant enzyme in their saliva. So it is lick at the wound all night, and just bleeding. - Yeah, you just keep bleeding. - But I was cheating a little because I had a hammock that had mosquito netting. So, you know, the other, my guides were just, like, sleeping in hammocks just out there. But, you know, there's so many, there's, like, spiders this size of your fist and-- - What was the craziest things you saw in terms of animals? - Oh my god. - Well, so, this is kind of bizarre. You know, I wanted to, when you're in the, when in Rome, I guess, or when in the Amazon, I decided to go on an ayahuasca trip, you know? - Whoa, dang. - So, I didn't decide-- - How did you do it? How did you do it classically? Did you have it boofed? - I remember they say they're, like, siphoned it up their butts back in the day. - I did not go for the end of the style, but-- - That's kind of sick they did that, though. - I know, well, I mean, it gets theirs. It's, it's mainlining. - Yeah. - Ayahuasca. Yeah. I know, this guy, my guide, Jose Shingongwuk, well, dude, man, he was, like, I'm gonna go get the bark, and you wanna try ayahuasca, and I was like, sure, you know? He was just your river. - He was my guide. He knew all the birds, and he was like, you know, when you're here, you know, if you guys, whoever wants to try it, you know? And there were only these three people, and the two guides. And so I said, yeah, I'll give it a shot. I mean, I grew up dabbling a little in-- - Yeah. - In some of these hallucinogens. (laughs) And so, I had read about it, and I thought, like, I was hoping for this amazing spiritual journey, and to supposedly, if it really takes right, you're gonna have this vision quest and meet your spirit animal. - Yeah. - So as we had been going through the Yasuni National Park, I had seen a pink dolphin, which is a freshwater dolphin. They're like a little four-foot-long, really cute. So I'm, the ayahuasca is coming on, and I'm having these hallucinations, and I keep seeing this pink dolphin. And I'm like, wait a minute. So my wife's spirit animal is a dolphin. And I'm like, I was expecting like a sea wolf, you know, these giant wolves with like web paws or a frickin' crackin' or something. And I got a pink dolphin from my spirit animal. - Yeah. - Like, four-foot. - Yeah, it's normal. - You know, I mean, it was not-- (laughs) It wasn't what I had hoped for. - You did drink it off. You should have drank it. Like, give me four more cups. - Like, small. There you go. - So, yeah, how was that? Was it like, did you have a super strong ghost? Did you feel like it was like a mild dose? - I had wished for, I was wishing for more, yeah. - Whoa. - Actually, just to transform that dolphin into something useful, you know. - Like, give a bang. - Kill, yeah, I mean. But I am also glad, actually, that it didn't take fully because I've seen some stuff and heard that, you know, people come out of that, changed. - Yeah, yeah. It's like, I, from what I've heard, I've never done it, but I've heard like, the full dose is like, you're a pukin. - Yeah. - I, I felt, I, I just hurled a little. - Okay, really? - It hurt a little bit. - Yeah, but, you know, the other thing we did, which was kind of insane, I mean, really, 'cause that, you know, I was like, they took us out, we were on this one big lake, that was like off. Well, I mean, the whole thing is so massive that it was actually part of the river, but it was slow moving, it seemed like a lake. And he's like, you wanna go catch my guy, I said, you wanna go catch piranhas. And I'm like, sure, I'm a, I'm an angler. - Yeah, you know, you're a fishing. And I go, what do you use? And he's like hot dogs. And so we go out there, we got a little stick and we're dangling for piranha, right? And then he said afterwards, he's like, you wanna go swimming. And I'm like, well, they're carnivores, man. Like, are we gonna, so we swam with, in the same vicinity of these piranhas, you know, and it was like, you're just sketched a bit. 'Cause, like, alone, they're not, they're like, I mean, they're jaws are serious, but they're not big. But you get a couple hundred piranhas and you're bleeding, and then, you know, you're, it's just like the movies. - Yeah, they can, they can, they can munch you pretty quick. - But they jumped in first and showed me, and I was like, okay, I'm not gonna went out here, you know, I'm gonna-- - Yeah, I'd be so, every time I hear about people swimming in the Amazon, I'm like, it's terrifying. 'Cause there's like, manatees in there? - Yeah, well, the manatee, you know, they're chill. - Sure. - I mean, I could have seen the manatee as my spirit animal too. - Yeah, something, yeah. - Just the sea cow, it's what they're called. It's like, go on the bottom and graze grass. They're just like, sluggish. So anyway, that's awesome. - Yeah, it was, it was really informative, and you know, what I'm usually trying to do when I'm going on these journeys is, I bring all the primary texts that I can carry. And so I'm reading about the expedition that I'm writing about, and then I'm kind of living my own one, and sort of putting it together, like what this place would have been like, and the, you know, there are all sorts of things like in the Amazon, for instance, at the sounds, you know, in the evening, there's like thousands of different insects, and weird, like, night insects, where the frickin', you know, their head pops up, and it goes around, like with iridescent blinking lights, and it's just wild, you know? And there's, you know, there's panthers, and the thing that's got me a little nervous, I'm not scared of snakes, but, you know, the Amazon has the largest, the anaconda, right? So, you know, even if you're in a four feet up, in a tree at a hammock, you're thinking, for a 30-foot anaconda, it's not a really big reach for them to, you know? - Yeah, I think it's slow there, I'm a tree. - Come constrict you to death. - Oh, so, like, what do you do to this? I guess you got a yell, and they cut it off, or whatever? - Yeah, I mean, you know, you don't really want to be running into an anaconda, but there's a guy, named Paul Rosoli, who lives in the workforce, and that dude is badass. And so, he, like, intentionally goes out and finds them, and catches them, and wrestles with them, and stuff, you know? So, if you know what you're doing, which I didn't, I mean, that was just trusting my guy. - Yeah, I mean, what do you, how do you, what, like, skill can you have to, like, wrestle? What do you got to know to do? - You need, like, the crock hunter mentality, you know? - Sure, sure. I know if it's, like, quicksand, if you like, I know you like lay on the ground. when you're belly and quicks in, it's better for you to spread out. - Yeah, spread out. - Yeah, I guess Anaconda, I'll try to poke its eyes. - Yeah, and there's also lots of poisonous animals, creatures, you know. The weirdest thing is that there are these, like, you know, well, and also Kymin, you know, which are not as gnarly as like an Australian saltwater crock, but we went out evening spotlighting for Kymin. They're like an alligator, and they are an alligator. - They're smaller, they're how big are they? - Yeah, they can get pretty big, but these, the ones we were messing with, we're just, like, four feet. But even then, it's dark, and you're like, I don't, do you, not my normal course of life to be grabbing alligators, you know, I'm messing with them? Even though I was born in New Orleans, I should be more burly about gators. - Well, they can, can they jump out of the water? - Yeah, and then we kind of leap up and say, yeah. - Yeah, so that was, and you know, it's just like the stuff that it's the unknown to me. So you're like sleeping in this hammock, and then you hear all the stuff like the howler monkeys who make this really wild, lion-like, husky roar sound. And, you know, just being out in that environment is so intoxicating for me. - Yeah. - I don't know. - So, and you recently went to the Arctic, right? - I did. - That was surprising. Like, what the, I've never, that's one place, I've never even thought to go. - Yeah, I went from the jungle to the great north, the ice, you know. - Yeah. - And I've actually, now I'm on my fourth Arctic book. And-- - Do you like the Arctic? - I really do. I like the, again, well, you know, there's so many elements to it. Like, but I was gonna say that on my most recent book, I wrote about the first people who tried to fly blimps to the North Pole, like back in the early 1900s. And when I first read that, I'm like, huh. We're gonna take a 200 foot balloon, inflate it with like, 270,000 cubic feet of flammable hydrogen. Stick a frickin, you know, Johnson 40 outward motor on it. What could possibly go wrong, you know? - Yeah. - That's gonna blow up. - How'd they make it? - Well, there's some really great stories of, and that's just my third Arctic book. You know, there were crashes on the ice and people having to survive from months on end on floating sea ice big burgs. And, you know, that, well, this, that book is called Rum of Ice and Sky. And it set off the largest Arctic rescue in history. But the funny part of going to those places is, so I went, what's at this place called Svalbard, which is 600 miles north of Northern Norway. It's still in Norway, but it's halfway between the Norwegian North Coast and the North Pole. So it's like, wait, it's the most Northern inhabited place on earth. And I had met, I had previously met this woman in Greenland and which is actually before we owned it and had a golf course there. But, you know, what are you gonna do? This was 20 years ago. And she got me really turned on to the Arctic and Arctic explorers and stuff. And so I ended up meeting up with Ingrid, my friend, and went to Svalbard. Bizarre thing, when I, before I left to go as Svalbard, I read this story and it was like, 'cause I wanted to camp. And I wanted to get the feeling of what, you know, at least to a degree of what it was like for these people to sleep in the cold and on the ice. And it turns out that there's only one campground that you can stay in Svalbard. And it's like during COVID, a guy, this Dutchman whose job was to put an electric fence around this campground. He was there with all, this is like one of the great tragic ironies, man. He was there, all the fencing equipment was lying there at the camp site, camp area. And the day before he was gonna install the fence, he got malt death by a polar bear, right? So, in Svalbard, the polar bear is protected. There's signs all over the outskirts of the town that just have a picture of a polar bear. And then it says like, beyond this, you know, you're kind of on your own. - Yeah, yeah. - And so, you know, you can imagine the first few nights sleeping there. Electric fence are no. If you've ever watched videos of polar bears, like, they're just step right over that thing or break through it, you know, they're in real life, at least. - For some reason, I thought they were, I just, I think I've only ever seen them in like Coca-Cola commercials. So I like, didn't even, I didn't know they ate people. - I thought they were pretty chill. - Lord, they're pretty vicious. - They are, I mean, I, you know. - Well, there you go, learn something every day. I thought they were honestly like chill bears. - I swear to God, you said they ate 'em, I was like, that sounds unlike polar bears. - Yes. So there were some fitful nights in the camp site. - Wait, so they never finished electric fence after the guy got launched by them? - They did, but man, the thing is this high. Like, it just wasn't gonna do it. But, you know, after a few nights, you're like, I mean, you know, you hear the tent flaps rustling and stuff and you're like, all sketched out. Plus, at that far north in the summer, which is when I was there, the midnight sun is, there's no darkness. - What? - So, you know, you're kind of not sleeping anyway. And then, you know, you hear anything and you're like-- - What are the people like who live there? I always wonder those places where like it's light 24 hours a day. Do they get like the total darkness too? - Oh yeah. - So, I mean, what are the people like there? Are they like completely weird or like. I feel like you'd be really weird if you like, didn't have a natural journey. - Is there a hearty folk man like this? - Six, you know, half the year, it's nearly dark. And so, but there's northern lights. There's the Aurora Borealis stuff. So, you know, they cruise around on dog sled and with snow machines in the winter. And in the summer, it has like, you know, a three day growing season. - Really? - Yeah, they do some quick harvesting. But no, it's just so, it's never really that warm. You know, I was there in June and it snowed and yeah, it's a harsh, I really, you end up appreciating the kind of people who are carbon out a life there. I mean, Svalbard itself is very organized. It has a lot of tourism, you know, big tourships come in, but also you can go on guided expeditions and go sea kayaking among the icebergs and the glaciers, which I did and it's so, so rad. I love that place. - Really? - Yeah, I've never, I gotta think about that. 'Cause every time I hear about like North Pole all that Arctic exploration, I'm like, count me out, man. I don't know why. Is it just like snow as far as you can see or like? - Well, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of mountains too and having grown up in the mountains I'm drawn to that. So, you know, huge, and it comes from sea level. So you've got these massive peaks jutting up in fjords. It's kind of like you picture Norway, but farther north and stays icy and cold and wind swept for more of the year. - So, here's the question. 'Cause it's like, if you're on an expedition, would you prefer dying the death of someone dying in the Amazon or in the Arctic? - Yeah, that's a good one. You know, I've read and written about both kinds of death, right? - Exactly. - There's something appealing in a way about like the cold, if you were just going to get hypothermia and freeze the death, that would be okay. 'Cause you just sort of like, go to sleep and, you know, lie there and let it happen, as they say. - Yeah, yeah. - But, you know, if you go the other route, you know, in the jungle, you get like, dengue fever or something. I would not be fun. Or, you know, you're bitten by some snake that gives you paralysis first. So yeah, I'm going to take the north, except I will say that when I was in Greenland, we went out on a boat with a, I was, I was actually writing about a blind adventure named Eric Weinmeer, who's the first blind man to summit Mount Everest and kayak down the entire length of the Grand Canyon. - How did you do that? - Well, he had, he had help, he had a guide. But, amazing, I mean, he's a transformative human. - Yeah, that's amazing. - I'm crazy. - But I was following him in Greenland on this adventure race and where it's like a week of different really hard sports. And part of it included like boating for like a day or two all around this southern Greenland. And we were following him in this boat. And I got, I get in the boat with this seal fisherman, dude. Or seal hunter, I guess. And, you know, I said, when we got in the boat, I said like, where are the life jackets, you know? And he looked at me and he kind of smiled to the Greenland in you at dude. And he's like, we don't have them. And I go, well, why? Cause I mean, I'm going to get off and he goes, no, no. If we fall in the water, we don't want it to take that long to die. - Oh. - And I'm like, that makes a lot sense. - Cause it's so cold basically. - Cause if you're just like floating along, you know, then you'll take 10 minutes. Whereas if you just bob and then say, - How cold is this water? - Oh, frick man. Cause saltwater can keep a cup below free. You know, it's like, birds are floating around the top. I mean, it's literally three minutes. You, without a dry suit, you die. - You would die. - So you're going in this boat, hoping like everything goes, you know? Like, trust the dude, but. - Yeah. So he was basically like, you fall in, we're dead anyways. - Right, so it seems like, you don't really. - What size craft you guys on? - This boat was like a 20 foot outboard. - Okay. - But we were following the people who were actually kayaking in rubber rafts, you know? So they were more imperiled than we were. - Yeah. - Somebody had the wetsuits. Which I guess they won't even preserve you for not that long. - A while. The good, really good dry suits you stay alive for 'til somebody came and, if they came and got it. - Yeah. - But, you know, of course that made me realize, - Again, I'm trying to think about the stories that I'm telling and the people I'm writing about and they had none of that no-gortex, no dry suits, and they're out there in the north, like the Scandinavians and some of these northern people's are the ones who invented like sea-skin kayaks, right? So they are expert in paddling these things, you know? - What is a sea-skin kayak? - So basically if you see the plastic kayaks that you see out on the earlier, they build them with like wooden frames and sometimes bone because in a lot of these places in the far north, there's no trees. And then they put the outsides are like stretched sea-skin or sometimes walrus and so they are really, they're watertight and you know, they're the ones who invented the whole, the older kayaks actually look pretty much, the designs have stayed similar, you know? There's a little cockpit and you're sitting down and you're so low on the water, you know? It's in any wind and waves and it's just terrifying, like I don't want to be in that. - That's crazy, dude. - Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. - Maybe it's Mabelie. - Wait, it's '22, the guys who explored that place 'cause like, you know, again, going back to the Amazon, it's like, okay, check it out. Like here's like a kind of a useful place with like a thing for the North Pole. It's like, you get there and you're like, "Dast on a snow." It's like, okay. - It's an open polar sea. Like there's nothing there. But what was really intriguing to me? - I'm trying to wriggle on the North Pole, but it's like, you know, they didn't know. Like so, we're at the people that I was writing about up until, and even including, the derigable airship journeys, in like the 1880s, this was just a giant blank white spot on the map. - I was about to say, what do they think was up there? Was there any like tales of what they thought might be there? - Yeah, and some really confused tales that actually ended up like not helping people because there was this theory that there was a ring of ice around this kind of warm, temperate zone. So they thought that it was like open sea there. And so a lot of times when the Brits and some of the other, I mean, the Norwegians went there or tried to go there. Like the theory was, okay, we're gonna break through this ice barrier and then it's like warm. I don't know why they believe that exactly. - Could we ever get into hollow earth theory? Could there are people who think at the top of the North Pole like it hollows out and kind of go in? - Yeah, just jump in. - Right through. - Teleport right to China. - See at the bottom. (laughing) - Yeah. - Where it's also ice and frozen. - Yeah, so we found out there was not the fabled oasis in the middle of all the earth. - Right, and a lot of times the earlier expeditions went with not enough gear and warm clothes because they thought they were gonna end up in these more temperate places. And they should have figured it out by noting what the indigenous people were wearing. - Yeah, sure. - You know, they're like totally bundled up with frickin' caribou. - How high up? - How high up do indigenous people go up to the, are they on the North Pole? - Well, nobody lives at the North Pole. - Okay, I thought so. - But they live, so far it's the most northern place, but on the northern coast of Greenland, there are still e-top native populations, people who are still carving out a life up there and living in a traditional way with, you know, seal hunting and, I mean, there's like whales and beluga. - Yeah, you know, they're hardy. - I would imagine, I think, which I'm gonna call it, the iglooser, I read about it. I was in a like a kids' museum with my kids, and apparently they like retain heat, like insane, like snow retains heat. - Oh man, unbelievably so. - Yeah, one of the things that's in writing about these expeditions, you know, I marvel at the endurance of these, you know, the explorers, because in many, in some cases, they were smart enough to take along indigenous guides and hunters, and you know, they would slog for like 12 hours across the snow and ice, get to the end of the day, build an igloo in like 45 minutes, and then you have like a seal blubber lantern at one end, and you're tucked into this igloo, and there's, and these guys are, you know, taking, not only writing down where they've gone, what the coordinates were, writing letters, home, you know, and recording in their journals and diaries, everything that's happened, including what the weather was like. But, you know, they're doing that after just trekking for a day or something. And the other thing that most people don't realize is that they're, especially in the north, it's not the case in the south pole, but these, they're giant flows of ice that's breaking up, and they move tremendously. So you could be in your igloo, and all of a sudden, you hear this crashing, you know, heaving sounds and shattering, and now the ice is breaking up underneath your igloo, and so they're like, you kind of need to sleep with your boots on, or your vocal cords, that's what you're saying, it's just a frozen sea, and so you'll shatter, and then you have to get out of there, and like regroup somewhere over here, and you know, you're yelling at each other in the darkness and it's just gnarly. - Oh, that sounds awful. It really does sound terrible. That's not, you're not pitching me on the north pole. What's up with the south pole? - Yeah, well, the south pole's different. It's more of a landmass that has frozen sea too. But what I've always found funny is that, you know, 'cause not a lot of people know about the Arctic and the Antarctic, so they'll tell 'em, I'm writing about the Arctic, and they say, the only thing they know is Shackleton, which is one of the most famous explorers, right? And they're like, oh, so like Shackleton, right? And I said, well, yeah, it's like Shackleton, except on his journey, everyone lived, and I only write about the story where half the people died. - At least. - And Shackleton was Antarctic. - Yeah, yeah. It's an amazing story. - Personally, if I was talking to Arctic, and someone came at me with Antarctic, I would probably wouldn't even respond. I'd be like, that's the okay, dude. I know what you mean. But I haven't been there. That's the one on my bucket list of, I've been on every continent except Antarctica, and so that's next. - So in North Pole, like the North Pole, is that like a military base? Or like, what is there? - No, it's just a spot on the map. - What? - Still. So what they did discover was that there had been a theory that there was another continental landmass there. So, maybe there's reserves of something oil. Maybe we can, you know, it was contested by a number of countries. So what they did figure out in the book that I wrote "Rumb of Ice and Sky," they fly over it in a blimp, and are able to take pictures and confirm that there's no landmass there that is just a giant expanse of moving ice. - Okay, and then I'm trying to like picture it. So if you fly to the North Pole and then it's keep going straight, - Well, these guys ended up in-- - What is it? - They crashed landed in Teller, Alaska. Well, it depends on what direction you go, but like, the cool thing is, once you pass the North Pole, every direction leads south, you know, it's like no matter if you turned around, or which in one case they did, they turned around and then went back to Svalbard. That didn't work, they crashed. - Damn. - But yeah, it's, yeah, these stories I love because, you know, once they're out there, then something usually invariably terrible happens. - Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really, it is, I do like that when you're reading all the sun, it's like they're about to die. They're like literally on the verge of death the entire time. - Right, how are we not going to die? - Yeah. - Yeah, I was, I was bugging out on the poison, and it's a different thing, but the poison arrows in the river darkness was like, I couldn't stop thinking about them. Just one little scratch from a poison arrow, and it's just like a 24 hour shivering, horrible death. - And your arm turns black and falls off, right? And it's like, yeah, don't, you know, duck and stay under those manatees shields, you know? - Dude, that shit sucks. - Guys, this episode is brought to you by Onit. Ever feel like your brain is on, but nobody's home? Hmm. Spend 10 to 15 seconds sharing a quick, relatable, funny story for your own life about a time. How about this guys? I'll be honest. I do dumb stuff all the time. This is for alpha brain, by the way. I, they sent it to me, so I've been taking it. I fucking like it. I swear to God. I figured I would, like, let me just try it out. Let me see, you know, let me see what it's all about. I like it, dude. It feels like it's a nice, it's caffeine-free, first of all. That's why I never took it, 'cause I'm like, I don't need any god darn caffeine. But yeah, I don't know. I think I looked it up and I don't know if I, it's like you can say what it does, but it apparently just like boosts your dopamine or like pushes dopamine into your brain. Give it a try. Give it a try. I like it. And yeah, it gets me charged, man, I take it. It's a very, and here's the thing too. I'm very prone to just taking stuff and being like, oh, I think it's working. But I gave it to my brother. I guinea pig, my brother's swim, who's no stranger to chemicals and chemical compounds, who has a hardier constitution than me. And he even was like, bro, this stuff's got me kind of, it's got me moving and grooving. So hey, look, we did it with that science right there did it. study on myself and my brother and Spud and we were all like to end the shit fucking rips, so get it yourself. Try it out. Try it out. All right. Alpha brain is a daily supplement with science-backed ingredients like L-theanine, design a support memory and focus so you can lock in, tune out distractions and stay sharp. Visit onit.com and shop Alpha Brain to unlock your next level. That's o-n-n-i-t dot com. And yeah, I'd literally take it every day now. I like it. Go ahead, Sean, you have to pull on your show. Yeah, thank you. Coast. Yeah. Hello. It's what we do it for. Hello, everybody. This is Sean. I just wanted to let you know one last time that I'll be in Salt Lake City this weekend, Friday and Saturday with Nate Marshall, March 27th and 28th. Tickets are at Sean Gardini dot com. Please come. There are plenty of tickets available to these shows. So many tickets, and we'll be at the Houston riot fest the week after that April 3rd and 4. And then a noctis is after that at the Creek in the cave. So please come tickets at Sean Gardini dot com or Lamarie Lee dot fun and you good Shane M Gillis dot com too. Sell out the link. Thank you guys. Thank you, Matt. Of course, guys. Oh man, this leg of the tour is winding down on April 10th. I'll be in St. Paul Minnesota at the Fitzgerald theater. Paul. It's all good. What do you guys need? I just my red light was when you were reading it. Oh, you're fine. Ain't no big thing. Just getting the audio out to the people. Sorry. Also, 4.11, the next day after I leave Minnesota, I'm going to Des Moines, Iowa, Hoyt Sherman place or whatever. I'll be there 4.11. So Iowa, Minnesota, I have shows there. Let's go. Let's finish this out strong, guys. What do you say? And then also motherfucking Phoenix man celebrity theater. Guys, come on. It's in the round. It's a cool place. Don't embarrass me. Oh, yeah, Gardini will be there fucking. It's going to be a blast. By the way, I come alive in the round. If I'm being honest, I have done the round with Shane. I love it. So please guys, please, please, please. Otherwise, I'll literally I'll just pay to get feet seat fillers and all. I don't fucking care. I'm going to have a good show in the round one way or the other. Guy and I'll pay them the laugh at me too. That's 417 guys 418. I'll be in Tucson, Arizona. And let's get it going. Also, I'll be in Toronto. We have two shows in Toronto. Both of them are one of them definitely sold out. The second one's dang near sold out. So might add a third. I don't know. Riviera theater, Chicago. Let's go get that. I think that's going to sell out, guys. That's in April. There's been a rumor about adding a possible if that sells out in 11 o'clock show at Zane's little secret show. We'll see. I don't know. No, we'll see. It's going to see. Oh nice. Jenna. Yeah. But yeah, guys, go to mammacuster.com. That took way too long. Just six shows left before I chill for the summer. Thank you. Oh, this is good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. We bring up the fabled Amazon. Oh, the women. Oh, I thought because everybody who lives there is considered an Amazonian now, but there's different tribes. So, yeah, the Amazon women. That's an interesting and perplexing myth and story. I didn't meet any. I was looking for them. The warriors. They're talking about the warriors. That was on women warriors. Yeah. But they had their breasts in the jungle. Whereas the Greek, the Greek, that's where the term comes from, right? They're Greek women who would with a strap their breasts down or down. Yeah. Time down so they can shoot the arrow. But what I loved about that story and the black sea is that they, and this persists to in the Amazon basin, is that they would take men, mate with them. Yeah, I know. And then like, tell them to fuck off. And then they just have the women on the island that were like, we're using you as, you know, you're just pro creators. Fantasy. It's a collective male fantasy. Get out of here. No, we've done with you. Go do shit. The jungle with your friends. I have no use for you right now. Go on. Well, that was a question. That was kind of what I was thinking about just yesterday. I was reading it. And so you have the, you know, because the conquistadors had the fabled myth of El Dorado, the kingdom of gold and all this stuff. And that was kind of the myth. That was like a myth that was driving them. But like, why would, I think you might have just answered the question, but why would these Amazonian people all make up a myth of like, powerful female warriors? Right. I mean, there's the sexual thing of them like abducting you from your village and taking you to have sex with you, whatever and drop you back off. But it's like, it is just a weird collective myth to have all these people in a jungle form of like, powerful women warriors. Yeah, especially back then. Now I get it. My people would do that. But like, back then in the fucking 1500s, like, why would they all do that and like, all agree that was a thing? Well, and also it, you know, since it has persisted for hundreds of years, I mean, I love the fact that this is where mythology becomes, you kind of wonder, like, is there a kernel of truth to this? Because, you know, with modern technology, wouldn't we have found them? But I have to say, in the Amazon, I mean, when I came, when I did my journey and came out and landed in Iquitos Peru, there, there was an article in the paper, or, you know, online, and it had images of, you may have seen them, like, they're uncontacted tribes still. And they're like painted orange. And, you know, helicopters or whatever, small planes are flying over to check them out. And they're just standing there with spears going, you know, land, please. See how that goes, Navy seal. But, you know, they, I mean, they do all right with their guns. But for me, the point was like, well, okay, if there are, if they remain uncontacted tribes, even in, you know, I was down there in 2008, they're still today are uncontacted tribes. And so it's so vast. And, of course, you know, it's being imperiled by logging and farming and all this stuff. But there's still, it's so vast that there's, if there are pockets of people that have lived the same way for 1000 years. And, and then there's myths about these particular female tribes that are warriors and don't want to be mess with. To me, there's a, I have to believe that it's possible. Yeah. Well, the guy in the books, all of them, he fought them. So it was like they were, they were, they were like lighter skinned, tall women that had a bunch of like short guys. They were Boston around. And if you, if you, if you push out, you're damn fucking killing you. Yeah. That holds. That still holds this day. Yeah. You better keep fighting. Yeah. I might have an Amazonian in my house. That's the last Amazonian. Why don't you pick up your shirt off the floor? Don't back down. No, that uh, yeah, it was, and it's just such a funny thing because you hear, you know, they're like while they're floating around the river, it's like there's these tales of Amazon, women warriors. And you're like, you know, how you're like, okay, it's just like a fable. Then they actually battle them. And you're like, what the fuck was that all about? They killed a couple. Yeah. Yeah. They killed almost all of them. Now shocking. You didn't take one of them prisoner. I know. It was still, you know, because if you look back to what Cortez did, and you know, there's also, um, there's albinos that come into camp one time. Yeah. That was a weird one too. Tall albino. These tall albino dudes, um, you know, they may have been pituitary giants or something which, um, what is the pituitary? What is that? Well, like, you grow really fast and, uh, and you're usually they're marked by having a really big head. Actually, I played rugby for seven years. And uh, one of our, um, or one of our best players in the scrum was a pituitary, a pituitary giant. Um, so he was like huge like Andre the giant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So your plans just produce good to have on your rugby team. I would imagine. Yeah. Giant is, I mean, that was, yeah, like medieval battle and everything. It's fucking awesome. And he had it. You were like, oh, he talked like that. I'm, I'm pissed if he did it, honestly. If I had a giant with a soft voice, I'd be like, It's bullshit. But Cortez had the wear with all to like snag some of these, um, you know, specimens, uh, and take them home to England or Germany, Spain. Yeah. And he would be like, I want to show the king what is here. And so there were like dwarfs and albinos. And some of them, he, you know, absconded with put them on a ship and sent them with the, you know, with the royal fifth of, um, gold that they were required to send back. And it was like, check them out. Like, this place is rad, you know, it's crazy. This is sending up just a bunch of treasure than like, essentially, like an old free show. He's just hate it. Like, he's like, you open a chest and like, dude, it just pop out like, whoa, what the hell is this? But in fairness to Orianna, he didn't have, like, you know, he was just trying not to die and get down the river. So he didn't have the capacity to put them in the boat. He was trying to feed his own men. Yeah, true. Cortez was like, okay, we're going to put these guys on ships and send them back and show what I'm taking over. The worst story of all, I think, from river of darkness is when they landed in that village. And it was just women there. And they took over the village and just all just slept with these ladies ramped him. Obviously, let's be, let's be frank about it. And then the guys, then they're, all their husbands came home from a trip to just see these like, people they've never seen before, all with their wives and their huts. And it was just like, dude, that's the most insane thing you could possibly imagine. I know. Everyone goes out to work and come home and everyone's wife is now being detained by like a strange being. I spend my whole day at the turtle farm and come home to Best. You know, no, you know, you've been no, I mean, turtles all day, and I was, it's so funny. I was chucked. I was chuckling too. Well, you guys were talking about how they named everything, you know, and that one place that you called, you know, you read it in the part three or whatever. And it's like, um, it was like, um, place of the, of the burn people. And I was thinking, well, you should have been called the place where we burned people, you know, like, they didn't want to name it when it really was. Yeah, I also love what he, he called it. We had like that Gonzalo Bizarre had a bad March and it was named the worst March ever through the jungle. Literally, that was a literal term. Yeah. This was the worst March ever through the jungle. There have been a lot of bad ones. This one, worst, worst ever. Well, it is pretty bad when, I mean, he gets back and he's like, literally in, you know, skins and barefoot, you know, the fact that any of those, the worst is them. I didn't know you could do this with a horse. You cut it open, drink the blood as needed. And then you pack it full of mud. It's just like a walking, it's just like a food truck. You just kind of want you would cut slivers, cook a sliver of it, eat it and just let it keep walking as you're eating it was like, oh, yeah, that was grim. I was listening to it a little bit on the plane. And I'm like, God, I forgot about that. You know, it's just what people will do. And, you know, I have to say, there wasn't much cannibalism in the conquistador tales. But in, if you really, if you like cannibalism, as you get to the, as you get to the, the arctic stuff, a lot of cannibalism. Yeah. And that was the, because that's the, that's the funny thing too, because I, you know, whenever I'm like, I'll like organize notes for things and I'll use like, you know, rock or claw. And they're always like, by the way, they didn't sustain themselves on cannibalism. It was for ceremonies. It's like, okay, dude, they're so eating like don't like nice it up that it was church. Okay. But so that was, Arctic was like, they need it to munch guys. That was like, sustained, that was like sustaining. Yeah. And you know, you're talking about a different, like the idea was that the explorers coming from, from Europe and North America were like, you know, it was taboo in different cultures. Less, less so, you know, yeah. And it does beg the question. I've been asked that at book readings. Like, would you eat human flesh? It's always one guy at a book reading. Yeah. It's like, would you ever eat a person? Mr. Lovey, would you eat a person? And then if I died, your face, I'm going to, I mean, what do you say to that? Would someone ask you that? I say, would you? To say, I mean, it depends on how, if it was your, like, in homey, you know, like it's true. How well do you know them? True. You know, is it a guy or a girl? Right. I would lead a guy personally. Yeah. I would, I would personally. Oh, man, unless it was a powerful war, I would eat a powerful warrior. Yeah. I mean, I think at a certain point, I would, you know, yeah. Obviously, if you get hungry enough, yeah, for sure. You know, you're delirious with hunger and it's like meat. Yeah. Yeah. If you ever vegan, I would say, I, I have a covered full of like cereal and all this stuff. And I'll be not hungry. And I don't want to eat the cereal and I'll eat the cereal. If I was starving to death, I would totally eat a person. Yeah. Well, like, no, not even not a question. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. But so then, I literally would eat every person, everyone here. I think you guys are great. But if I get hungry, so it gets kind of grim. I'll try. It gets kind of grim because then it becomes a question of, OK, if they're already dead, yeah, like let's say they starve the death and then they don't. And they're, which happens in a couple of my books where, you know, they're, they're dead already. They starved. So daddy, you're looking around. Okay. Not a lot. You know, we've already gone out hunting and we haven't found anything in there. There's a guy. Yeah. You know, are we going to, are we going to do it? And versus you're going to, you know, kill someone to eat them, which is a different thing for me. Well, this went dark. No, that's, no, I hear what you're saying because if someone stars the death and you got to split up your friend with all your other friends to eat them, but it's like, they isn't a lot of meat on them. Right. Next person starts lagging like, we can just eat this guy now and get a better meal out of it. Yeah. And then in some cases, what happens is like, they start looking around this happens in, in that book, actually, or in labyrinth of ice. So one guy, you know, everybody else is like, emaciated, sort of walk in dead situation on the ice. And, and then you've got like one guy who's like 200 pounds. It looks like he's just come from CrossFit, you know, and they're like, what the fuck is up with him? Like what? Why is he so, you know, burly? And they realize, well, he's been going off to the, the title crack where they've been throwing the dead people at like feeding at night, you know, feeding at the title crack. Yeah. And that guy, it doesn't go well for him. So he was, he kind of gave himself away about it. I mean, like, man, I'm just different. I'm just build different. It's genetics. So he was just sneaking off a nighttime and just frying up the guys and, yes. And then, but the commander, this was an army expedition. And the commander figures it out a Dolphus Greeley. And he's like, I don't, I hate you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he ends up going, okay. He catches him, um, stealing food. And then he says, okay, we're going to take three guys out there and, um, Henry, that's his name. Henry's got to go because he's eating what little food we have left. And so they do a thing. Oh, he was munching the food reserves after and and dead people. And so then he's like, uh, we, you know, we'll all die if Henry keeps eating everything. Yeah. So they have an execution. And they just like go out there. And, you know, I got to say that's not very fat positive of them. Henry was body shaming people. That's fair. Damn. So he was so they executed him. But, you know, they wanted to not know who did it. So they really put like blanks in two of the guns and then a live round in the other one. And all fired, they all fired on him. And then they had to report it to the, if they, you know, they meant some survived. So then they had to like write a report of like, yeah, we took out Henry made a kill him. Sorry. That's what you get, man. You can't be doing that on the expedition. No, it's bad form bad team player. Terrible, decent, terrible team player. Things all about himself. There's no I and team Henry. You know, dang, that's awesome. So what is like, so out of all the expeditions you've done, what are they? You've done the Amazon, Arctic world. So I will also I went to Borneo. This was, I think I mentioned you, I had followed these crazy multi sport adventure racers around the world for about seven years. And this was run by Mark Burnett, the guy who created survivor of the apprentice. And so I was doing some research and I was, right, I was a journalist then writing about these sports. And the first one of the ones I went to was in Borneo, which is, you know, Northern Malaysia Islands. And that was super intense because, and it was actually during this race where Mark Burnett found the island that was the first survivor island where the first competition happened, however many, like 112 seasons of survivor or whatever it's been. And so we were, this was really incredible. We were, we were following these racers around it. We were in boats, motor boats, but we would sleep on islands, right? And I had heard my friend is trying to freak me out. He's like, yeah, well, Borneo, that's where the headhunters are, right? So I thought, yeah, really? And he's like, well, they're, they're south, they're south of where you're going to be. You know, and I'm like, a good. And he said, but, you know, Borneo has like some of the most toxic snakes in the world. And also, so at one point, I'm on this island. And we were like, waiting to go to the next island. And we camped out there, right? This is couldn't have a hammock there because of no trees. And so I had heard about this sea crate, K R A I T, which is like one of the most toxic snakes in the world, right? And I mean, if it bites you, I think you have like hours to live really. So we're like, get to this island. It was beautiful. We're all setting up camp in this one guy. We had this much guyver dude named Brito. He's British in his nickname was Brito, which isn't that clever. But that's what we called him. But Brito turns out was really scared of snakes, right? So we had seen in a couple, they're water snakes. So it's freaky because we had to anchor out like it shallow. We anchored like 200, 300 yards from the island. And then you couldn't get into shore because it would break, you know, yeah, yeah, fuck up the boat. So we're like carrying all our crap through the water, seeing occasional slithers going, God damn. And so when we got to shore, Brito was like, buddy, I'm so scared of snakes. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, just day away from them. But we ended up like in the middle of the night. So I set up my tent. And in the middle of the night, I feel some like next to me and the dude is spooning me, you know, and listen, I'm okay with spooning, you know, but the guy, I'm like, Brito, what the fuck are you doing? He's like, I can't take it. I can't be out there. And then I showed him, I go, well, it's not going to help you that much in here. My tent had like a little hole in the corner. And I'm like, the sea crates going to come right because they look for warps too, you know? And I'm like, there's, there - Yeah, they're water snakes. - Yeah, they're water snake, but they can come on laying their amphibious. - Oh, man. - It's not a thing. It's also like, don't be next to me. We're gonna, you know. - Right, she'll be like, "I'm afraid of snakes too, bro, back up." Man, get off the guy. - I know. - I can butt dude. (laughing) - Get your snake away from me. (laughing) But, and then I went to the next day. I go, I go, like. - I think you made it all up and get close to you, honestly. - You probably did. - You told me, buddy. - Yeah. - The next day, I went out and said, "It's crazy, a leak." And I'm like, I see the movement in the scrub, you know. And I'm like, what the, is that? And it was like, it turns out, it was a monitor lizard, which are next to the Komodo dragon, the monitor lizard. - The last. - The second largest reptile in the world. I mean, there's like, from me to these guys, you know. - Damn. - And it's like a Shetland pony elongated size lizard, you know, and you're like, and they're kind of gnarly too. I mean, you know, if you don't spook 'em or something, you're good, but like, it all just makes you nervous. - Yeah. - We went. - Definitely a dinosaur. - Right. - Those are the size of a Shetland pony, that's a dino. - Yeah, and you're out there in its Jurassic Park situation. And, you know, it's just trying to make a living. - That's fucking terrible. And then how, so you just on that island for a day? - Yeah, and then we would like, went off to the next, I mean, it was like a 10 or 12 day long race. And we also had to crawl through, they had this really cool section of the race where they had to, they're these bat caves that are really famous in their, they're huge. You go through these, like you crawl through these tunnels to get inside the big cavern, and they're massive. And then there's these bat caves that actually are the, the local population, they harvest these birds, they're kind of like a swallow, they're called swifts. They harvest, there's a, they go up on these like, vine ladders to harvest the eggs from these swift birds. It's like a medicinal, aphrodisiac situation. - What, yeah, every, every single place has their like, I swear, like give, this is like the tree bark liquor or whatever. - Yeah. - Whatever single civilization has their own like, boner medicine. - You gotta have it. - You do. - Hey, I turned 40 this year. I mean, you got, I'm in the thick of it, bro. I'm like, it's finally come for me. - But so, yeah, then you're crawling. It was kind of nasty. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not against bats or anything, but like, when you're, or, and you guys, I know I have a congressman. - Yeah, yeah. - You got bats. But you have to crawl through like tunnels of bat guano, like, you know, centuries of bats shitting there. - Whoa. - To get into the cavern place and then as part of the race, the racers had to go through there and then climb up this huge, like a sharpament and then like, repel down the other side, right? So, you know, you're just coming out of there going, "Did I pick the wrong gig?" Like, I'm covered in batshit, you know, which, it's not good. - No. - Can you get, it's like, it's like Bert, I know Bert's shit, you can get really sick. - Yeah, you back on, no, no one to eat it. - True. - But no, it has, you can get sick. - Well, because the Bert, the Bert's shit, what happens is it dries and then you hit something and it goes up in the air and then as soon as you breathe it in it becomes that like, when it gets wet, that's when it kind of messes you up. Like, it is like whatever, I think moisture activates. - Yeah, that's good, it's been, I was working with my dad, we're doing the thing with pigeon shit, he might have been making this all up. And he was just like, moisture activates the germs in bird's shit. - It's like so on to virus, you know, you don't be snorting that. - That's pretty cool though, so what do you, what do you have, what do you have like, cooking up? What's your, what's your next system? - Well, I'm doing a, I'm doing a fourth Arctic book 'cause I am the master of the Arctic. - You are the master of the Arctic. - Is it turns out? - And so I'm claiming an Arctic. I'm gonna go to the Antarctic. - Yeah. - I'll beat you to it. - My editor, I'm actually, this is avoidance behavior right here 'cause I am working on a new book and it's about, so you may have heard of John Franklin who, this Franklin expedition that went off in the two boats, ship's got stuck in the ice and then he never came home. He had 120, what did you, have you guys heard about the terror? It's an AMC show called The Terror, that was a huge deal. But anyway, these two ships got stuck in the ice and then nobody came home. And so his wife, Lady Jane Franklin, sent for like 20 years sent expeditions to go try to find them and then the half of those people died. But those two ships were recently found in like 2017 and 2014 because of Inuit oral history. They said, we saw, you know, their ancestors said, we saw these boats where they went down and they ended up using submersibles to go find both those ships and it helps solve the problem or the questions about what happened and in fact cannibalism. - It occurred. - Of course. - 129 men perished. But that's not what we were books about. - Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. - My book's about the first Franklin expedition. - Where are you giving it away? - What the hell? - Yeah, is about the first Franklin expedition in Northern Canada, which is an overland journey in like 5,000 miles on foot in Canoos with DNA, yellow, nive indigenous people. It was during the time of the Hudson Bay Company in the Northwest fur traders, right? And so it's 1819 and it's just this incredible ordeal where they're trying to figure out where the Northwest passage is. In fact, almost all this stuff was related to finding the Northwest passage and these many of the Arctic tales. And it's just an incredible ordeal. - What's the Northwest passage? - They were trying to find a sea route instead of having to go all the way around to Asia. You could go quicker from Europe through this security to all these islands north of Canada. But it's really hard to navigate and half the time it's frozen and not navigable. And so it took centuries to figure out that it's not practical. - It's Canada, many people. I mean, with global warming, it's becoming open longer. I mean, if you believe in global warming. But you know, it's still not. It's too circuitous to get through quickly and it doesn't really solve the problem. But it took a long time in many lives to come to this realization. - It sucks. A lot of those guys, too, I've noticed when they, whenever someone has a successful voyage and they try to do the second one, never works out. Besides, I feel like Christopher Columbus is the only guy who kind of like, I don't even know what happened to him, ultimately. - Yeah, like where their journey is improved. - Yeah, he just kind of, I don't know if this is true. I was talking to somebody months ago about Christopher Columbus, who was a history teacher. And he was saying that Christopher Columbus, when he first got to, what was it? Like, Hispaniola or whatever. They were the people there. I forget the name of them. They were like, you know, he famously was like, they're super dossile, blah, blah, blah. Apparently, he would just like hop on their back and make them piggyback him around the eye. Which is so disrespectful. He'd be like, I'm tired and just piggybacked. - You know what? - They were just carrying him around. - You look fit. - That's disrespect. - I thought that was crazy. I mean, there's obviously, all of them did a lot of terrible things, but that would just, if a grown man was like, all right, come on, let me hop up. We hop on you real quick. I'd be like, it's fucking bullshit. Yeah. - All right. - But he made it. He was the only guy I feel like he did. I mean, I'm sure there were others, but he had like multiple successful expeditions, right? - Yes. - He was always. - Yeah, but you're right. They tend to end poorly. I mean, even in the case of Orianna and River of Darkness, like he thought like what he learned going down the river would have helped, and then the return voyage was disastrous, right? - Yeah. - Plus you can't figure out where you're going. You know, like, because the mouth is so wide, one of the staggering facts that I wrote it, I mean, I have to confirm this after we are done here, if it's actually true, that there's an island at the mouth that's the size of Switzerland. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's insane. - It was not what you looked at up. - I think that, I think that is. - It'll probably quote me. - No, I sort of got it. - I think that's the case. - Yeah, and it's, so imagine Orianna arriving back there with his child bride, you know. - He did bring a child bride in the return voyage. - Yeah. - Which was crazy. - And then like, we're going back up, and we're going to mostly visit the places that were nice to us. (laughing) - Yeah, Marahoe Island. - Yeah, that's insane. And I forgot about that. And then he survives it and then brings a child bride, honeymoon's, the child bride. - The great honeymoon. - It's crazy. It just dies in front of her. - Brazil's nice this time of year. (laughing) - Yeah, I do like learning about those little, like those weird like waterways, like the Bocade Serpiente and the Bocade Dragón, where they got to like navigate these weird rocky channels with like wetlands through, where was that like the Trinidadian coast? - Yeah, the mangrove swamps and everything. - Fucking sucks. - Yeah, I mean. - Oh, it's sucks. Especially just to learn where you're at. And I go where the place we're in is called the mouth of the dragon. I go fuck. (laughing) - Fuck, I wonder why they call it that. (laughing) - Well buddy, this is great. Thank you so much. Is there anything else you have or anything you'd like people to know or any of that stuff, talking business? - No, man, just, I really appreciate being here. - Sure customer. - It's been a blast. And I'm gonna keep writing these things until I'm weak and infirm and need to feed on friend. There you go. (laughing) - Well thank you so much. - My pleasure, man. - See you buddy. - Take care. - Watch new episodes of Matt and Shane Secret Podcast on Spotify. - Do it.