EP #60- Serving the Sober Community: Alcoholism and Mental Health with Lily Geiger, Founder of Figlia

(gentle music) I think it took me a really long time to get to where I am now, where I can look back on it and feel like I did everything, right, or like I did everything and then the best way that I could have done it. And then channeling that into, okay, well, how am I gonna make my life the best that it could be? How can I move forward in a way that's healthy and how can I help other people that are dealing with this? Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins. This week I had the pleasure of speaking with Lily Geiger, founder of Philia, a non-alcoholic, apparative o company, which has been featured in publications like Vogue, GQ, Pure Wow, and many others. When Lily was in college, her father passed away from alcoholism and that really was the catalyst for her inspiration to starting this company. And in this interview, Lily and I talk about the experience of growing up with an alcoholic in her family, how that impacted her own mental health and how it shaped her perspective on alcoholism and mental health. We also talk about the challenges starting your own brand, what the experience was like for her, deciding to leave her full-time job and go off into a more entrepreneurial environment. And we also explore our own relationship with drinking, being in social environments, where alcohol is typically consumed and how this may or may not impact our mental health. In particular, comparing college drinking culture to navigating life post-grad, being a young adult in New York City. This story is really moving and inspiring and I am so grateful to have had Lily to come onto the show. I'm so excited for you all to hear this episode, but before we get into it, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Anchor. Hi, Lily. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Hey, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. I am thrilled to get into our conversation today. I really admire everything that you've done with Philia and just being a successful young 25-year-old woman in New York City who's built her own brand. I really think that's such an amazing accomplishment and I admire what you've been doing so much. So I'd love to start off with talking a little bit about how you decided to go off into building your own brand. So you're only a few years older than me and I know that when you graduated college, you were working in a more of a corporate job, but can you walk my listeners through how you made that transition and what really inspired you to start Philia? Yeah, I think it's really interesting because I think since I've started Philia, a lot of people from my college have reached out to me that currently go there. And they'll always be like, "Oh, did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur? Did you take a lot of courses on that?" And I'm always like, "No, I didn't. I really had no idea that this would happen." Didn't plan for it at all, which is really interesting because I think that I was really worried graduating from college what my path would be and I didn't know where it would really lead me to. But after graduating, I started working at Beauty Counter, which was really great for me. I actually started on the brand marketing team and I was like a founding member of the team. It didn't exist yet. So I think there was a lot of creativity room for really great relationships to be made. I think we all really worked well together and was able to make connections with people that I'm not sure I would have been able to make had I not been put in that position where I always say I feel like I skipped a couple grades with my career where I got there. And I was in EA to two people and I was an assistant to a team and was working really hard. I felt like I was working crazy hours and just kind of getting into the groove of corporate life but also startup life. And that was really interesting for me to just see how many people could really do so much with a brand. Let's say if we're on the brand marketing team we're in charge of the events and that sort of thing or a really cool launch idea, it was really awesome to see us obviously talk about that in a meeting but then bring it to fruition and see it come to life and then us actually work this event. So I really, really enjoyed that. From there I started working with a really great woman who was contracting for Beauty Counter. She was like, hey, I'm starting my own company. I'm gonna start this retail consulting agency kind of boutique style. We'll be working with handful of brands, all of which I knew and really admired and just really respected her and her co-founders, work ethic and they really seemed like they'd gotten together super quickly. And then I think it was, when I left Beauty Counter and started working with them, I was able to really jumpstart kind of the groundwork for where I am now and was really trusted with a lot of things that I don't know of a lot of people at my age at the time were able to do or they were trusted with. And so that was really cool for me because I felt like I had a role in a lot of these events or branding ideas or just creative thoughts that we would have that again would come to life and I'd get to actually work them and meet people and face-to-face speak to clients or hire people or just stuff like that. Once COVID happened, I was like, okay, this is a window for me. If I'm comfortable doing this sort of thing and I trust myself, this was a good time for me to take that lead. - Yeah, COVID really opened up, I think a ton of creative opportunity because there was just so much time to explore those interests and to take those leaps of faith. And I love how you started out in more of a corporate job because I think it gave you more of those fundamental skills to actually figure out what is it like working with clients? What is it like doing brand marketing? What is it like building something from the ground up and maybe that gave you the confidence and the ability to go off and do something on your own? That's also really close to your heart and close to your childhood and your life story. I can't imagine that coming out of college, the initial mindset or thought that you had was like, I'm gonna build this brand and I'm going to honor my father and I'm going to serve the sober community. Like I imagine that those thoughts probably developed later on maybe during COVID when you had the time to sit back and put in the effort and energy to building this. - Totally and I think that what's really interesting about the timing of that was during COVID, everyone is developing a lot of new habits, one of which I in particular was paying attention to is the amount that people were drinking. I found myself with my roommate, we were like, oh, we'll have a glass of wine and talk and it was more the ritual of it. We were bored and honestly it was just something for us to do. But, I mean, same for me. I came home, I was sent home from studying abroad and I was home from March until September and every single night, my dad and I would just make a cocktail 'cause why not? There was nothing else to do and it wasn't great. It was not great to drink every night like that. - No and I just would wake up feeling really bad. I mean, it's not like I was drinking in copious amounts but I just wasn't feeling good. And I have my own history with seeing drinking patterns and having an alcoholic parent and growing up with one and being, I'm a very cautious drinker in general. I think that I've never been comfortable with the idea of taking it too far, which I think college, I saw the complete opposite side of that where everyone was just binging. And it was hard for me, I think, to kind of, I guess, walk into that lifestyle and see that it was normal. It was never normal to me. Like, it never felt right. And I think that having monitored, those drinking habits created in COVID and then basically this base kind of taking off little by little and seeing how many options were there. I was drawn to ordering them and trying them and seeing how I could make a cocktail and how I could basically be put in place of the glass of wine that I was having and how that would make me feel and it felt great. But I just didn't have one brand in particular that I would want to keep ordering or that I felt really tasted that great. Or, I mean, I thought the branding of all these competitors out there is just incredible. And I think that everyone's done such a great job in making it super-alluring just on the shelf and getting people to want to buy it just because it looks great. But also, everyone has a different flavor and I think that's what makes this space so awesome and just having variety for people who don't drink for whatever reason. So I think that's kind of what led me to, you know, want to do my own thing and eventually start my own brand in this space. I was inspired by, you know, a history that was, you know, took its toll on me for sure. And I felt like I was ready to address certain things in my life that maybe I wasn't ready to before. So it all fell into place. Like I had the idea. I felt comfortable talking about it. And I also felt that I had the experience to back it up. Yeah, I think timing really is everything, honestly. And I think it kind of fell into your lap perfectly at that moment in your life to make that leap of faith and step into this new chapter in your life where you could, you know, have the confidence and the tools to build something on your own. I want to go back a little bit to the comment you made about being in college and being in like a binge drinking culture. Can you share a little bit more about some of maybe like the difficulties that you faced or the challenges being in a very alcohol-centric environment, going to school in the United States. Like it's very much centered around drinking. So, you know, given your history with having a parent who suffered with alcoholism and, you know, maybe experiencing difficulties that came with those experiences. Like how did that impact your relationship? relationship with alcohol, especially as you were in college in a very alcohol Consum, you know a high alcohol consumption environment. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean it was interesting because I you know like We talked about this before like I grew up in Manhattan, so I Hate to say this but I felt like college was like the least exciting thing that had ever happened to me in my life I was like this is kind of like it's fun because that we're supposed to do this right like society is like you're supposed to go to college And you know you're gonna meet all these friends and that was great and I'm so happy I'm at my friends there But I just felt that I had done everything already in Manhattan where like I You know felt like an adult a little bit more than you know my friends maybe did Like in Manhattan we were drinking liquor we weren't drinking beer and someone's basement You know we're going to like bars on the age where I we're at someone's apartment And that's like that's also super alarming right like you think about that and like that's really bad, but Yeah, when I think about high school I'm like there were a lot of questionable things that we did that we thought we were entitled to do and I think Maybe that's a product of just growing up in the city like you kind of have that chip on your shoulder or whatnot and view of that High-dense sense of independence by it when you think about it like We got away with a lot And you know and if you think about the setting like you're not in the comfort of someone else's home It's like your neighbor or your best friend's parents. It's like you're in Manhattan. You could just totally Anything can happen. So I think coming from that going to a school in the South where you know It was definitely been drinking culture big school I think the most alarming thing for me was you know people would drink all day into the night would feel like Shit the next morning and then would just start drinking again I'm like I can't even recuperate from anything than I before like I need to like take a break But it was like non-stop drinking and I think that it was interesting how that kind of came into my life at a time where I also Lost my dad in college. I lost my dad when I was a sophomore and I think that also just kind of rattled me because leading up to my dad dying was I would say some of the more stressful moments months Years of my life where I was just Worryed all the time. I was just a really worried person. I think I'm much different now because I just don't have that weighing on me anymore, but like I felt just like totally paralyzed by the situation So yeah having having to manage that and also be in an environment where everyone is Drinking in a really concerning way right in front of my eyes. It was it was a lot and especially in college Everything is revolved around drinking and then there's this idea that to have fun You have to drink and if you're not drinking you're probably gonna be the only one and there's people you know People put these labels and judgments and preconceived ideas about you if you choose to not drink and so that you know Like even if there's not a culture of peer pressure There is like an indirect sense of pressure to engage in that of course And there's still judgment in your 20s when you don't want to drink and there's still judgment You know in your 30s, especially as a woman. It's like are you pregnant or are you you know? Why why don't you want to drink with me? And I think the the person who does order the drink and is questioning you about not ordering the drink feels guilt Because they're drinking alone and that's also something to think about like well Why would you feel guilty for drinking alone if you know? You were just eating alone or something like that. It's just interesting to think through all those motions of why people Judge and why people inquire about not drinking. Yeah, that's a great point that you raise and I think you know There's so many reasons as to why someone doesn't want to drink and something that I really like that you raised was just Not feeling well the next day like why is it normalized that like you know? You'll you'll go out have a few drinks whatever or drink too much and then the next day It's like okay to feel like crap It's not like a normal feeling to have and you know Maybe at the certain point you get used to it, but it's like to what end is that behavior? You know gonna keep occurring exactly and at the end of the day You're like running on fumes because alcohol also just totally screws up your sleep So you're exhausted you probably haven't eaten all the right things if you're drinking the way that you know we're talking about and You're hungover and you're just kind of you know restarting the the process of drinking again So you know that'll like kind of cut your hangover down because you're drinking again And then you're back on the train of like this crazy day of just binge drinking for 12 15 hours It's just when I think about it in hindsight. I'm like holy shit That was just insane that people did that every single day and nobody questioned it. No one was worried Yeah, and I think that's where like the problem is in American drinking culture is that no one really pays attention to I mean there's tons of issues that we could raise there, but something that I also find interesting is I think that people are probably there's there's probably a lot of people out there that are like High functioning like low grade alcoholics in a way like not in a way that's Ment to kind of degrade Maybe the experience that your father went through were like people who really do suffer with alcoholism But I think it also can be on some sort of spectrum like Using alcohol as the social lubricant too often sometimes and you know So I think sometimes maybe I've seen like in friends people just kind of brush it off but Like my question here is you know when you've maybe seen friends Deal with alcohol in an unhealthy way like how have you how is that affected you and like how have you maybe had conversations with friends on like how to manage that just given you know everything that you've gone through and what you've seen your Your family go through yeah I think in college the only Instance that I can think of is a good friend of mine drank too much and set a lot of hurtful things and kind of like lash out on everyone and I think everyone was startled But I think I was especially like traumatized. I was just like I don't need to be yelled at by a drunk person I don't need to be spoken to in a way that is like you know violating and rude and and and hurtful by A drunk person because that that's really hard for me and much harder for me than I'm sure it was for my friends at the time And something that really resonated with me But I think earlier I'm sorry later in life I see more people you know in in their day-to-day lives as adults Need a drink to socialize and to kind of just get through their day um And I think a lot of those habits developed in college and that's what's really upsetting is that These people don't really think that that that will happen, you know It's like oh well. This is just a college thing and that was that's left in the past And now we're adults it's like no like those habits You know get carried in To adulthood and actually start to thrive off of environments where you're like, you know Getting drinks to someone after work and you're carrying it into the night. It's like that's when you know It can really take off and it's really um it's hard to see and I see a lot of people now that I started feeling I reach out and saying like I've been questioning my drinking habits, you know Covid was really hard for me I want to be sober. Thank you for you know giving me an option that I feel like I can go to and so it's it's cool to see How many people now I think are more honest about it than I think ever before or maybe felt that because I said something about my own experience They felt comfortable enough telling me their story or saying that they don't feel confident in their own drinking habits Also just the terminology like being sober. I think is always used in the context of like the opposite of that Which would we would assume someone to be suffering with alcoholism, but I would argue that like you can still choose to want to be sober and just you know The definition of the word itself being that you're not drinking alcohol like you don't necessarily have to Have a history of alcoholism or consider yourself to be an alcoholic to want to be sober like the the act of being Sober is just not drinking alcohol like you know, I mean, I don't know if that's something that you've seen within The community of people that are you know buying your product and drinking it and now really like you know Recognizing maybe their relationship with alcohol is impaired or under better understanding the nature of their drinking habits And how that that's developed over time right and I think that now more than ever there you know There's that term that I think it was rebewarring to point Is sober curious and it's interesting because I think more people now than ever are interested in not drinking you know for whatever reason on whatever day So that doesn't mean you have to actually say that you're sober because sometimes that can be really Intense for people to say you know that someone might not want to say I'm sober because that you know That could mean to them well Then I can never have a drink again because someone's gonna remember that I said that I was sober I don't want to go back on my word or you know xyz but A lot of people now are just open to non-drinking because They want to you know Mix in a cocktail and not have a drink every night and That's also really cool to see and I remember I was interviewing with someone and they were saying that they spoke to a stalkist who sells Non-alcoholic options and that they were saying oh, I've never had an alcoholic in my store like I you know Typically like no alcoholics come in and buy anything Um, and I think that's interesting because on one hand I'm thinking now I might be triggering walking into a non-alcoholic liquor store And there are a lot of the alternatives. I think we happen to not taste like alcohol But I think if you're getting a non-alcoholic gin or an alcoholic bourbon It's it's going to taste like alcohol and that's going to trigger you I can only imagine But I do think that with someone who is an alcoholic you're never going to walk into a store and say I'm an alcoholic Because they're ashamed and or they just don't want to share that so It's interesting to see the spectrum of people that aren't drinking right now. And some of it is temporary, some of it is planned to be this lifestyle. And there are people who are just trying to get through every day to not drink. And are fighting every day. >> Exactly. It really is a spectrum. And I mean, I've seen amongst my friends and my community, for example, sometimes alcohol, I mean, it just gets expensive, especially in New York City. And so when you go out and you buy a drink and you have a few drinks, you can easily drop tons of money. So there can be maybe the financial component, not wanting to break bank every single weekend. It can also just be that you want a good night's rest. So you know, without having a glass of wine, we'll disrupt your sleep pattern. And something that I learned recently actually is that no matter how much alcohol that you consume, it's going to affect your sleep. You don't have to be five drinks in to have a horrible night's sleep. You could even just have one glass. >> Exactly. And have a horrible night of sleep. And sleep is such an important restorative process to have because it really allows us to repair our body, repair our mind, and feel refreshed the next day. So there's tons of research out there about sleeping important. But amongst my friends, I've recognized so many different reasons as to why they wanted to limit their alcohol consumption and then also like health benefits. I've suffered with hormonal issues and alcohol is not great for that. And people that live with chronic disability, alcohol is very inflammatory. So there's just tons of reasons as to why someone wouldn't want to drink. And I think earlier, your point around someone not wanting you to not have a drink because they feel maybe guilt or shame and just drinking alone, I think it also puts pressure on the non-drinking party to have to explain or rationalize their decision to not drink. And that's really difficult, too. >> Exactly. And when you think about it in the context of alcohol being a drug, if let's say someone's doing drugs and you decide not to do drugs, a really hard drug, I don't think anyone is going to question you. I mean, in most social situations, it's just like, I'm not doing it no problem. But with drinking, it's now this normalized drug where it's like, wait, what? But now I have to give you a list of 20 questions as to why I'm so thrown off by the fact that you don't want to drink. I hope to see drinking become more like cigarettes, eventually, where I grew up in New York, everyone was smoking. You'd walk down the street and literally everyone on the block was smoking cigarette. And now it's not as common. It's still going on, of course, that's just going to happen, right? That's inevitable. But I think that it will just become less of a normal thing, I think, with time. And I already see that kind of happening, which is really cool to see. Yeah, I would hope so too. And it's great because if that's where this is going to trend towards, then you really did kind of hit the market at the right time with Philia. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about the product itself. So I know earlier you mentioned how it could be very triggering for an alcoholic to walk into a non-alcoholic liquor store. And you know, something that I think differentiates. Philia from other products is that it's not meant to mimic the taste of a certain alcohol. So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about that and what the users of that product can expect if they purchase it. So Philia is a non-alcoholic aperitivo. So it's similar to a compari or an app where it's concentrated. You wouldn't want to drink a full, large glass of it, typically. And it has no added sugars, no preservatives. I think that when we came up with the flavor and by we, I mean me and a few of the people I spoke with and just trying to, you know, narrow down some of the, I would say, extracts and juices that are in the product that I had no idea what they even, you know, would taste like together. It was hard to think of combining all these things that I liked on their own. Just finding a way for it to taste sophisticated to the non-drinker or the drinker and for it to not trick or someone who can't drink. I think that for me, I mostly did this for the sober community. I think it's great for everyone else who likes to mix it or people who aren't completely sober but like to drink it. I'm so proud of that. But I think that I want there to be more options for people who literally cannot drink and they are fighting every day to not drink. And so wanted it to seem like something that they would be proud of, that they would, you know, bring as a hostess gift or bring for themselves or bring to a restaurant or, you know, want to have on their bar card every day. So with that, we obviously wanted it to the color to look really vibrant for it to look super-alluring for the glass bottle to be really beautiful and look like it could sit next to a really pretty gin or, you know, just be on a bar card and look like it wouldn't call out to anyone coming into your home to question you. And yeah, so with that, we kind of narrowed down the recipe and made it into this really beautiful tasting. I don't even know what to call it. I mean, it's like a lickser, like it's really like something. I like that. It's like a magical elixir and I think, you know, also like culturally we see drinking to be something that's very sophisticated, you know, having a glass of champagne or wine or whatever. And I think to make this product really a learning to the sober community, you also want to emphasize that like non-drink gink can also be really sophisticated as well. Like it doesn't have to be exclusively to the alcohol community. Like you can have that element of class and sophistication in non-alcoholic beverage. Absolutely. And I think that one thing that really inspired me, obviously, you know, the name is Italian and a parativo culture is Italian. And I'm actually not Italian, which is really interesting. But when my dad died, I ended up going to study in Rome for four months. And it was a really interesting period of my life where I was living alone. I didn't have any friends there just because I kind of wanted to be alone. And I just was so taken by the culture and how people didn't binge things and how they really savor things. And you know, in a parativo culture, you're meeting with friends or, you know, whoever. And you're basically just sitting down, you're having great conversation, you're typically picking on like really beautiful snacks like olives or, you know, a cracker or cheese. And you're drinking this beverage that is meant to be saver. It's not meant to, you know, just toss back. And so that really stuck with me because given where I'd come from and what I'd seen, this was how I wanted to start living my life. And it was really great for me to see that. So I took that with me for sure. And I think when I was coming up with the idea, I didn't want it to just be an alternative. I really wanted it to seem like something special that one day could be seen next to a compari. And something that people would enjoy like a compari. Well, that messaging really shines through, at least for me, from what I've seen and, you know, I can't wait to taste it. I can't wait to get myself a bottle. But the comment you made about just being in Italy and, you know, experiencing the culture there, it just was so vibrant in my head as you said it because I thought about, you know, that scenery and then contrasting that to like how we engage with alcohol here. You know, it's here, especially, you know, let's talk about college, like being an undergrad. Normally there's like the pregame and the purpose of the pregame, which is what maybe like 30 minutes an hour, like however much time you have before you go off to the party or the bar or whatnot. Like the purpose, you're not even like socializing with people. You're just pounding back drinks mindlessly just to get, you know, drunk and then go and, you know, the expectation is that when you arrive at the place you're going to, you're already wasted. So you'll have a good time. And, you know, how much of a good time can you have if you're not remembering your conversations? You don't even have any recollection of the night. And, you know, contrasting that to what you're describing in Italy and just in European cultures, you're savoring that experience. You're sitting down with your friends. You're actually, you know, enjoying being in their company. You're fully present in the moment. I mean, on this podcast, when you talk about presence and, you know, being fully immersed in experiences and finding joy in that and really doing things to take care of your well-being. And, you know, I would argue that the European culture and lifestyle is more conducive to that than just pounding back shots so that you have that social lubricant to go about your night. And, you know, it's just, it's a really fascinating comparison to draw. So I'm really glad that you brought that up. Yeah, I think that you're right. Like, it is interesting to think about that in contrast to what we were doing in college. And, basically, you're like having the pregame just to feel comfortable enough to socialize once you get to the main event. I think that's something that I hope will change. I think that the more options that are out there and I see more young people open to the idea of not drinking. And I think that that will continue to be the case with time. So, fingers crossed that we're making a change. Right, exactly. And, you know, also, I wanted to make a statement that, of course, these are behaviors that in college like I myself have engaged in like I'm sure, you know, maybe you have, you know, like we've all we've all been there, of course. And it's not, you know, to we're not trying to speak about these experiences or behaviors in a way that is like belittling because it is just the way life is, honestly. I don't know. But I think it's about, you know, how do we change that narrative and how do we, you know, actually create the dialogue to normalize not drinking. No matter your comfort about it. level with alcohol or experiences drinking or whether or not you're predisposed to alcoholism in your family like if you take all of that away like you know I think it's really about just creating the space to have non-alcoholic options and also normalize that and glamorize it in a way too because up until this point I don't think it has been but aside from you know dissecting alcoholism and how you know maybe the future of the way in which we engage with alcohol may change I wanted to ask about how you know your mental health was impacted through the experiences that you had growing up and you know as you've grown older and as you've started to maybe make peace with that part of your life or continue on with the chapter that you're currently in right now like how have you adopted certain strategies to you know become more resilient and to overcome those obstacles that you faced in your life. Yeah I think that it's interesting I think that I was like I said I use the word like paralyzed because I just felt like I was stuck in I was stuck in a place where I couldn't stop worrying about someone and that means you know with drinking it's it could be a plethora of that of things that could go wrong potentially right so like you could get in a car and drive or fall down a flight of stairs like you're literally not yourself you're not in the right mindset to do most things and and it's really it's really hard for family members and you know people call it a family disease and that's because it is a family disease and I think that's something that I struggled with when starting Philia and just getting the story right because I I'm not in a place to speak from the point of an alcoholic because I'm not an alcoholic right I haven't personally been in the head of an alcoholic but I have this is my own experience of of basically being raised by an alcoholic and going through the motions of on and off-supriety relapse hospital visits therapy rehab like it's it's just it's a long road and I think that if you you know at the end of it where in my case I lost my my dad to this disease you constantly think about what could I've done differently what how could I save this how could I have changed this what could I have done to to have saved this person's life essentially and that's a really that's a lot to carry on your back right on your shoulders like that's not a normal thing where you know if let's say someone in your family were to die of another disease that weren't this like this is preventable you know what I mean like that's what's scary and that's just really upsetting is you know if my dad got sick with a terminal cancer there's like literally nothing in my power I could have done even physically you know if I wanted to lock my dad up in jail he wouldn't have been able to have a drink right like it's so it's if I would have like physically have pinned him down he wouldn't have gotten to drink but so it that's really hard mentally to work through and to think that you know you could have made a difference and the truth is that you couldn't have done I couldn't have done anything other than what I was doing and I felt like I I take a lot of comfort in that and I was a kid you know I mean I was 20 when my dad died so like the years leading up to that I was obviously a lot older and I could have taken him to the hospital or I could have you know legally you know signed a document at 18 but that's that's not that doesn't make it any easier you still just feel like you're losing grip like every day so that being said I think yeah it's it takes a lot out of you you're just living you're you feel like a different person and you're just constantly on edge constantly on on the lookout for you know what could go wrong and I think after my dad passed and just kind of dealing with the aftermath and like I mentioned you know going through a lot of the thoughts of what could I've done wrong I think it took me a really long time to get to where I am now where I can look back on it and feel like I did everything right or like I did everything and the best way that I could have done it and then channeling that into okay well how am I going to make my life like the best that it can be how can I move forward in a way that's healthy and how how can I help other people that are dealing with this and I didn't know what you know what form that would take and how I would how that would play a role in my life later on in adulthood and what I could do about that you know people could yeah I could raise money and have some foundation and then I would you know that would be my thing but it didn't it didn't really feel like the right time or the right thing until I thought of a failure and once I thought of it it was like oh I have to do that because there are a lot of brands out there but not many brands are talking about like having real conversations about alcohol consumption and I've seen since I've started it you know we we had someone helping us with press and they reached out to I think it was an editor for some publication and they you know gave the whole story which is typically what we do and he was like that's too dark I'm not writing about that and I think it's it's a personal project right you know I try not to let it get too personal because at the end of the day this is a product that is that is not me this is not me this is a product that is far away from me actually and so I try not to let it get to me but it's interesting to see those types of comments right because people are judgmental still and are they really shy away from these conversations and I get why of course it's hard for a reason and it's dark but it's also something that has to be spoken of and so I think for me that's really how I'm able to heal now and and putting real stories out there real instances and not just saying lost my dad you know X amount of years ago miss you dad it's like I'll say something real that happened like I'll give a real instance or I'll put my my personal story out there or share a real photo or a real screen grab of a text conversation that was really hard like I think I when I launched Philly I I posted a screenshot of a text conversation with my dad where he said that he didn't want to shave in the mirror anymore because he didn't want to look at see himself and and that's real right like that's a real you know depiction of what is going on in that person's head they're so ashamed that they literally don't want to face themselves in the mirror and I think that that's not really spoken of that often I don't really hear a lot of people being that honest right so if I can be that one person and if I can inspire another person to do that or if I can just literally get someone to see that that sees it and feels like they're not alone that's enough for me and I say that every day where I'm like you know if if this company were to dissolve today for whatever reason this has been enough I've already gotten so many people come to me where they've said you inspired me to have this conversation with my parent or my sibling or my friend or can you give me resources I need to seek help for this person and I can actually say yes I can give you those resources I've partnered with partnership dendiction I've had conversations with them I've I've done the work already so I think that that's the best part about it but just to close it up I mean it's a really hard and long road it's really really really it takes a toll on your system you know your nervous system you're you're you're totally just emotionally strapped it's really tough thank you for being so honest and vulnerable sharing all of that it requires a lot of bravery and courage to be so open about these experiences so thank you for doing that here on my podcast and for bringing that sense of authenticity into your brand I mean I think people are craving hearing those messages like you can sense authenticity and I I feel like that word is now overused because everything is now we we want authentic brands and marketing and this and that and but you can't you know you can't escape it like really that is what people crave because you can see right through it the fact that this is kind of a personal project and that this is drawn from your own personal experiences even though this product is separate from you like that's like still your superpower I think like to leverage that is your superpower because people can sense that and they they want to buy into this idea and I think that people are also benefiting from it like you said you're able to offer those resources you're able to help just one person you know that's enough to initiate that commerce to help someone initiate that conversation maybe with a family or member or a loved one and there's really a power and like collective help I truly believe and that's why I'm so inspired by what you're doing and we I agree like we need to open up conversations like these also to your your point about recognizing that there really was nothing you could do at the end of the day besides what you had done and how you'd handled the situation that's such a valuable point to bring up because I think we're often so hard on ourselves when we see someone struggle that we really care about struggle with mental illness like we want them to get better we want to fix them we want to do everything we can to get them to a better place at the end of the day the only person that can really help themselves is their own being and there's only so much you can do on the outside no matter you know if you're blood relative or not and so you know I want this to also be a reminder that if you see someone struggling whether it's from alcoholism or another type of mental illness whatever it may be, the most you can do. do is be, you know, as supportive as you can. But at the end of the day, that person needs to take it upon themselves to seek the help that they deserve and that they need because it will eat away at you if you have that belief and that mentality that you could have done more because, you know, if you really, you know, at the end of the day, there really isn't that much to be done physically, you know, emotionally, mentally, it's difficult. So I'm really glad that you've come to that realization and that you're sharing that because I think that's something people really do need to hear. Yeah. And I think it's hard to come to terms with an alcoholic in my case parent that will choose a drink over you every time when they're in that phase of, in this case, you know, after a relapse and they're just in the zone. In my dad's case, it was like, like suicide attempts, pretty much like you're drinking to, your drinking for days. It's like there's just no way that a lot of people can get out of that life and you have to hospitalize them and they have to go through detox, but before that even happens, they don't answer their phone. You know, you could, I could, I could have been in the hospital and he would have been able to take care of me where it's, where it's just the whole thing is just choosing the drink over that person, choosing the drink over your family, choosing the drink over your husband or wife, choosing the drink over your child. That's hard to come to terms with. It's really, really tricky to wrap your head around because then you just don't feel loved or you feel like, oh, I'm not good enough for you. Or if, you know, if I could have, if I could do this, then maybe you would be able to be there for me. But it's, it's beyond your control. It's completely up to them and, you know, you, you can try to have your, your grip on them, but they will slip out of your fingers every time. It's, and it just, you just can't do anything. You can't do anything to help them. Which is really, it can be really hard. Exactly. And, you know, especially just in childhood development, which is such a critical period in our lives, like kids need to be cared for. They need to be loved. They need that sense of safety and security and to not have those fundamentals. I can only imagine you just be, you know, incredibly difficult. And those are things, you know, that we need throughout the course of our lives. Like, we will always need the care and compassion and sense of security and love from other people. I think at the end of the day, that's what we all crave is like a human species. Like, we want that love and sense of safety and security and compassion. It's something like you mentioned, that's very, very difficult to just wrap your head around. And, you know, I'm so happy to see how far you've come and, you know, to be at this point in your life today, to have strengthened, you know, like your resilience muscle and to really put in that work to create a better life for yourself. Because I think, you know, there's one thing, you know, to be stuck in a rut for a long time and to not get out of that and then to let experiences that you can't control affect you and your well-being, like permanently. And what's the good in that when, you know, you have a long life to live and you have so much to accomplish and so much beauty to see in the world? Like, why, why live in such a dark space when there's so much light, you know, there's so much opportunity? And so I think it's incredible that you've been able to get yourself to that place where you can move through life with more grace and create meaning in a way behind these unfortunate, you know, more than unfortunate situations that have happened in your life that you just, you can't control. And I think that it's hard because you see someone in your life that, you know, it's your parent, right? So that's like one of the most important roles in your life, just getting taken away from you that early in your life where you're, you're left not really knowing kind of what to do with yourself in a way and so finding ways where, you know, you can just try to live life to the fullest, right? Like, you know, how can I live, obviously, my life, but like live a little bit for them too, where you're just, you know, appreciating everything. Like life is so short, you just, you got to go for it. You got to, right. I mean, is there not a mantra, but is there like maybe a saying that's really stuck with you or something around just the nature of living every moment to its fullest and being present? Like, is there something like that that's kind of stuck with you that has helped you throughout your healing process and something that you maybe remind yourself of every day to keep moving forward? It's actually interesting, you ask that because I, I mean, there are so many quotes that I say, if I'm like a total freak about, I'm like, become so spiritual in this time where I'm like, I'm just going to go for things, I'm going to, you know, take chances, I'm, you know, just try to, you know, see life through a different lens and be this, this happy person, you know, to, you know, whatever degree I can do that, right? But I would say that one thing that's stuck with me that my mom always says is the time is always now. And I think that's, that applies to so many different things, right? Like, if you want to tell someone how you feel about them, like do it now or, you know, you never know when you're going to see them again or if you have this idea and if you can make it work, you know, career wise or, you know, anything wise, go do it. You know, you never know when you're actually going to find the time to get to that. So just do it. And so I love that. I love that quote too. And it reminds me just about how, how much fear plays a role in shaping our reality because fear is what holds us back from doing a lot of things. And it's what prevents us from seizing that opportunity in the moment. You know, we may be fearful of telling someone how we feel about them because maybe we're afraid of rejection or we're afraid how they're, how they're going to take it. We're afraid of the future. I think fear is a huge driver in, you know, how we behave and how we communicate with other people. And that's why I believe it's so important to take the small steps every day to, to celebrate those small wins and combat those fears so that you can feel the courage and the bravery and the power to take a hold of the things you want to do because like you said, the time is now. So that's a really powerful quote. You know, something I like to think about is this too shall pass. So not, it's kind of like the opposite. So not getting too fixated on what's happening in the moment because recognizing that things are always ever changing in our lives. So just because a situation is one way in that moment doesn't mean it's going to be like that permanently. So there's beauty to know that things can constantly be in flux even though there's, you know, there's, there's fear in that too. It's very complex, but it's just really amazing what you're doing and clearly people are, you know, very enthusiastic about this because you were recently written about in Vogue, which is a huge accomplishment. How does it feel to like now be picked up by more major publications and, you know, do you have any exciting goals for the future of how you'd like for Philia to evolve, you know, in the next five years? Well, thank you again so much. It's cool. I think that, you know, getting, getting written about in a publication like Vogue or seeing Philia and The New York Times or in print and travel leisure is just completely surreal for me. I think that when I was starting it, I almost didn't tell like anyone. I think I only told the people that needed to know, you know, my mom knew a lot of my family members, oh, my family members knew, but I would say that, you know, telling friends was really something that I struggled with. I was really embarrassed because I was, no one was doing this. And, you know, what if it doesn't work out? Then I'm the girl that announced that I was doing this big thing and then it doesn't happen. So I think seeing it in all these different articles is just, it's so touching for me. But I will say that something that, you know, takes, takes the cake on what it touched me is definitely the conversations that I've had with people like, like I've said and just seeing how me telling my story could have affected someone else's life or the, you know, the trajectory of them dealing with someone else that they're close with having an addiction to whatever substance and feeling like they felt courage through hearing my story to then go do something about it, you know, with their situation. So I think that's really powerful for me. I would hope that what we do in our time here is just continue to have those conversations. So I can't, you know, just close to many business plans with, you know, product and stuff like that. But I think that we have a lot down the pipeline that will be exciting, of course, from a product perspective. But I think just for our community and just continuing to grow that community and having on his conversations about alcohol consumption and what that means, you know, in our lives and in our relationships is something that I hope to see more of. I'm so excited to follow along this journey. I see a very bright future ahead. So I am very excited to see kind of what the next steps are and excited to be a part of continuing those conversations around alcohol consumption because it's something that I've grown to be very interested in. And I think that, you know, there needs to be a space for this. So really excited to see everything that you're going to continue to accomplish. My final question for you is something that I ask everyone that comes onto the podcast. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? Every day. I mean, I live in the greatest city in the world. So I think going outside and just like getting to walk the streets of Manhattan, like listening to good music, that is like the biggest endorphin driver ever for me. Like that is something that I've done from the, you know, majority of my life is just walk on the street. my headphones in and just getting to blow off some steam and just get outside. It's just the best feeling in the world. I totally agree. Especially now that the sun sets earlier, I guess it's going to start setting later as we move more into spring. But something I've been trying to do is getting out of the apartment, even when it's dark, but it's still early, just so I can feel like I've been outside for the day and getting my steps in. There's something very therapeutic about just taking a long walk and just getting in some physical activity and music, as we know, can be incredibly powerful. So it's kind of like killing two birds with one stone type of deal. The best. It's my therapy, really, it's like it sounds so corny, but it's really, it's awesome to even just see people outside, right? And like in New York, you're seeing everyone, you're seeing everything. Exactly. You can people watch. Yeah, exactly. So that's definitely something that I value and try to do every day if I can, if I can fit it in. Yeah, I am of the same mentality. Lily, where can my followers find Philia, where can they find your social media and get connected with you? Yeah, so you can find us online. We sell direct to consumer. We can just, you can find our bottle at your doorstep if you order online. Or we also are almost at like 130 stock, so go on our website and type in your zip code and we're probably very close to you. Just take a look. And social media, I'm on Instagram, so you can totally side into my DMs if you want to have some honest conversations about alcohol. I'm here. Thank you so much, Lily. This has been a pleasure getting to sit down with you today. Yes. Likewise, thanks so much for having me. Thank you for listening and remember to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things that bring you endorphins every day. See you next time.