EP #57- Humanizing Your 20s and The Power of Social Entrepreneurship with Erica Wenger, Founding Teammate at MadeFor

(gentle music) I think if you don't let yourself celebrate those moments where you do have a small win, you're not gonna also be patient enough and make it work and be gritty enough because it's really, really exhausting and you have to celebrate the wins as they come because they're so few and far between especially in the beginning. Having grit is key, for sure. I definitely agree, but I also think that to have the grit be sustainable, you have to celebrate the small wins. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins. This week is all about the power of social entrepreneurship, stepping outside of your comfort zone, discovering your passions, your purpose in life, and navigating your 20s, which is an incredibly difficult decade. I am so thrilled to have Erica Wenger be the guest for this week's podcast interview. I find her to be a true inspiration and as I sat down to do this interview, I discovered so many interesting things about Erica that I previously didn't know. And I just became even more inspired by the story that she had to share how she gave a TED Talk back in 2019 around social entrepreneurship, how she started her own podcast called Dear 20 Something where she gets to interview inspiring women on how they got to the success that they currently are at in their lives and what they were doing in their 20s before they became super successful and famous. We also talked about Erica's story as a founding member of the company Made For, which is a science-backed program that draws from principles of neuroscience, positive psychology and physiology to help you create a healthier life through building healthier and more sustainable habits. So we really talked about so many different topics in this interview. Erica has a lot of wisdom to share and I hope that you guys get as much out of the conversation as I did because I left away from that conversation feeling incredibly uplifted, inspired, motivated, and driven. And that is the energy that Erica brings to the table. So it was an absolute pleasure having her as a guest. I am so excited for you guys to hear this interview, but before we get into it, I have a brief message from my sponsor, anchor. Hi, Erica. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Thanks for having me. I can't wait to get started. It's a pleasure having you as a guest. And I know we spoke a little bit offline earlier about all the incredible accomplishments that you have achieved in your lifetime. And the first of which I'd love to start off talking about is your podcast, your 20-something. And as myself, just navigating post-grad, working, doing my own podcast, I find the work that you're doing to be very inspiring. And I'd love for you to share with my community what inspired you to start your podcast and how you got into all of that. Well, thank you for saying all those nice things. I also want to start by saying that I am also very much figuring it out. I am 24 years old. And I have a lot of life ahead of me. I've made a lot of mistakes. So yeah, but thank you for saying all those kind things. So the reason why I wanted to start the podcast is, I never really intended on ever starting a podcast because I always thought the space was really saturated. And I was always like, what do I have to share that's different from everyone else? Like no one wants to hear what I have to say. There's so many great podcasts out there. What's mine going to be adding to the mix? And so I never really thought I was going to, but in the back of my mind for a couple years, I had this idea/annoyance that any time I would look up someone that I really admired, I couldn't really figure out their journey more than just like some early jobs on LinkedIn. And like when I would search up someone really successful and look at interviews, the only things they were interviewed on was their big successes. It's like a good example is like Laura Stein. She created TEDx. She was the executive director of Women's March Global. She's just this unreal, amazing person. And she's like an example of someone where she's been interviewed a million and one times about TEDx and the Women's March. But what was she doing when she was 25? I don't know. And when I talked to her on the podcast, she was talking about how she was a journalist in South Africa. She was a ballerina. She had this crazy, crazy, windy journey. And that was not even discoverable on the internet. Even in my intense research before chatting with her, I never found it. So I think for me, it kind of just started from my own issues and my own annoyances with not being able to discover like what these people were doing more than just their LinkedIn profiles. And then I got this awesome opportunity to be a founding creator on a new platform called Fireside. And they were like, do you have a show? You'd ever want to start. Have you ever thought of doing one? And I said, I mean, kind of. But like, no, I don't know. I'm not really an interviewer. That's not my thing. That sounded really terrifying. And so anyway, long story short, they ended up-- I told them my pitch and they ended up saying that they liked it and they wanted to support me. And then here we are like six months later and have been continuing to figure out what kinds of guests I want to have on. And I'm actually going to pivot the show a little bit in the coming months. I think the goal really is for it to just be like a resource for 20-somethings who are figuring it out. And yeah, I'm realizing recently that it's also-- I'm gearing it more towards entrepreneurs because that's my nature. So yeah, more to come on that. But that's why I started the show. I love how the whole mission behind the show is really to humanize the experience of being in your 20s. Because it is difficult, especially right out of college. That transition is very hard. Even if you're fortunate enough to have really great opportunities lined up for you, it is still very much a difficult transition. And I just think it's so great that you're bringing this fresh perspective onto your show and getting very successful women to come on and talk about how they got to where they are before things became really glamorous and were picked up by the media. And I also love that yours now starting to pivot more into entrepreneurship. I know your background is around social entrepreneurship. You gave a TED Talk, which is super cool, and such an amazing opportunity in a goal of mine one day. So I'd love to learn more about how you got into the TEDx community. If you could share a little bit about what your TED Talk was on. And what it was like to prepare for that, I can imagine it's pretty nerve-wracking to have to fully memorize what you're going to say, no prompts, nothing to refer to your on stage in front of an audience, and you're giving this 20-minute speech. That's difficult to do. Very much so. I'm sure you will give a TED Talk one day. You got to manifest into existence. So yeah, I mean, it's still very weird to even say that I did do that. The talk was called, "How Social Entrepreneurship Will Change the World." I gave the talk when I was 21. I really struggled a lot, honestly. I was, again, similar to the podcast, and this is why I like to humanize your-- I was like, what do I have to share? I'm truly 21 years old. I am just getting started. I have just found the world of social entrepreneurship. Yes, I've done fun projects and really dove into it. But I have not built a successful multi-million dollar social enterprise. What am I doing, giving this talk? And I think that was-- it was honestly like a really-- it was exciting when I first found out, but it was a really terrifying experience. In terms of getting involved, I mean, it was as simple as like-- USC puts on an annual TEDx conference and all lots of students apply. And they picked, I believe, a six of us to give different TED talks. And it was-- I mean, these TED talks were unbelievable. There was one she gave it on how we make all of our virtual assistants, like the series and the Alexis. They're all female. And what that's doing from a psychological standpoint to all of us telling women to do things for us and how important gender neutrality is with voice assistance, brilliant talk. Someone else, Vaughn, they're non-binary, and they talked about their experience, going through that and coming out the other side. And now I believe they're a psychologist, and they work with other gender non-conforming individuals. And that was a powerful TED talk. So anyway, I think I was just excited to be in their company, and I was very grateful to be selected. And then it was sort of like a six-month process of like working with different coaches and writing the talk and practicing it and iterating and all the things. And it ended up going pretty well. I did not blank on stage, which was my greatest fear. I had to memorize the whole 20-minute talk. So there were no teleprompters. There was no nothing. I had to regurgitate it all from memory. And yeah, I mean, I would say it was a really special, special, special experience to do it and get to work with those people. But I can't lie. I mean, it was horrifying. And I felt very unqualified. And I don't know. I think things like that happen all the time. But there is-- and I don't know who says this, but it might be Oprah. I quote her all the time. But if an opportunity is presented to you, you're ready for it. It kind of simplifies this overthinking nature that a lot of us have, at least myself. I'm like, if an opportunity presents itself to me that I'm overwhelmed by, well, I wouldn't have that opportunity if I wasn't ready to step up to the plate. And if-- you know what I mean? And I think that we have to remind you, ourselves that were like, what? No, not me. But they wouldn't have offered it to you if they didn't think that you could do it or that you deserved it or that you worked for it or whatever the thing is. So anyway, that was my that was my TED experience. That is such a great quote and I think especially young people in particular and I guess really of any age like it we always are suffering with like imposter syndrome and it's so hard to to kind of get over that and not be our own worst critic and to actually dive into that opportunity that's presented because you're right. Like so often something comes to us and we are doubtful if we're ready for it and I think one of the hardest things is just not knowing where to start and not knowing what resources you have or if like you are able to actually take on that challenge but even people who are super accomplished like I think we'd be surprised to find out like how much imposter syndrome can really affect even the most accomplished people that we see and I mean when you did your TED talk, how did you maybe overcome that feeling of imposter syndrome and really get yourself to be fully confident in doing it and know that you had the more you had the ability and more than just simply the ability but you were so ready to do something like that. Yeah, I mean I think it was something I had to really really work at you know like I started off by feeling like an imposter really struggling with the idea of having to actually deliver this talk and over time I worked through it. I mean I think the biggest thing for me was confiding in my support system. I'm really blessed I have I'm very close to my you know my small circle a few very close friends I have a twin sister I have a mom I'm very close to them also very close to my grandfather he's the best advice giver and I think I just really leaned on them and I was honest you know and I think I was also really honest with the people who are running TEDx. I think one thing that I've really learned and I'm still working on is like authenticity and vulnerability is strength and I think you know it's we're all at least I am like I it's easy to kind of put out like oh yeah I'm confident I got this I'm gonna give a TED talk this is great I know exactly what I'm doing but I find that like the real mess ups happen when you don't acknowledge that you're struggling and I think that if I had maybe tried to push through it and not work through it I would have maybe blanked on stage I would have maybe had a breakdown that I before like it you know I feel like it could have built up and so I think the biggest thing was just acknowledging it leaning on my support system and then just doing the work you know like I think that's that's the piece that is hard like I spent hours and hours writing it and I spent hours and hours researching and hours and hours memorizing and making it foolproof so that I made it as impossible as I could to you know for me to mess up I really I memorized it to you know backwards and forwards and I set myself up for success by really just working hard too but yeah I mean it's not easy at all and I don't know I don't know if that I ever got to a place where I was a hundred percent I think I just did everything I could to prepare and put my best foot forward and then you know I also knew that it wasn't going to define me like I think that's something to I get a lot of my identity from my career and from like accomplishments and I'm also working on not letting that define me and like knowing that I'm so much more than that and if I did for some reason completely blank on stage and have a huge issue like that would not be the end of it for me and I would be okay that's such a great point around you know how we really tend to identify with our career and I think that's something that I'm also experiencing right now because I just entered the workforce so it's kind of like low-hanging fruit like the easiest thing to identify with right now is like what I'm doing professionally but I think it can be really challenging when we get so caught up with just building our identity around our job like are the one thing that we do during the day so you know do you have any advice for young recent grads like college grads college students even who you know feel as if they're building their identity around either they're major or what they're doing for work if they've graduated and how to like expand that because I feel like in a way that can really inhibit us from being more well-rounded people and actually like discovering things about ourselves that we otherwise wouldn't have if we had just kind of let go of that sole identity and instead really try to explore other parts of our personalities and our passions that we didn't know existed. Yeah I mean I'm looking for advice from other people on that too because I really struggle with it you know when it's something that is a goal of mine to be better at you know I think like there's obviously people always talk about work life balance I think it's a little bit like overdone but there does need to be more of a balance and I think it's hard especially with COVID we're all isolated the only thing we've had is work right like our ability to socialize has really been cut off our ability to travel has really been cut off for the most part you know and our ability to even like go work out like I can't go to my gym without wearing a mask and you know I can do that but that's not as easy and so all these other areas of our life have been jeopardized and so I think at least for me like I've really doubled down on my work during this time because I feel like I might as well you know get something from this time of being isolated and it's also easier it's sort of like you know low hanging fruit like you said like oh I might as well add on another project or I don't know there's something because I can't do all these other things that I normally would do so I think I'm also looking for advice on that and I do definitely don't have it figured out you know I think yeah I think it's I think it's definitely a work in progress for me too and I I'm trying to think if I have some piece of advice on that I mean I think being mindful of how you spend your time you know being mindful of how much time you're spending on work after work but like a lot of people who are high achieving their whole lives they got pets on the back for doing well in school like I'm sure this is you I can already tell like you got great grades you got you know when you were 13 you came home with it always on your report card or whatever and you got a congratulations either from yourself or from your parents or whoever it may be and so that felt good and you kept doing it and you kept getting a's whether it was because of yourself or because of others and you can continue that and you know people who are high achieving they need that I don't even know if I want to say like ego feed but it's like this this like it's just the thing that makes you feel good about yourself and so I think that the more you accomplish the better you feel and then the more you accomplish the better you feel and sometimes it's okay which I'm learning it's okay to do things that maybe aren't going to make me feel amazing from a professional standpoint but they're gonna make me feel amazing from a health standpoint or from a relationship standpoint um but yeah I think a lot of high achievers that's where they've typically gotten they are like greatest amount of satisfaction that's really interesting that you mentioned that because I took a positive psychology course my senior year of college and I remember we had learned about a study where basically it was about praise and like praising children and kind of like the negative effects actually on praise but they were looking at like the researchers were looking at on praising kids for like actually successfully completing the task versus like their effort and so they found that it's actually more advantageous to praise people for their effort rather than the outcome of that task so maybe it like I was a good student in school I loved school but I think luckily like I was also praised for like the effort um you know my my dad always told me think about it and so he always instilled this value in me of like being very intentional and like mindful about my choices and um you know always like you know to work as hard as I could no matter what the outcome would be so I think as equal of importance as it is to like praise the outcome and you know like you know reward yourself and others for doing a good job or it's successfully achieving a task it's also super important to value like the hard work that's being put into it and that also reminds me of a quote that you shared with me earlier today an Oprah quote around she made a comment about like if her show didn't succeed she knows that you know that's fine she's still gonna win I thought that was so powerful did you want to talk a little bit more about like that quote and maybe how that's impacted your life yeah absolutely so Oprah was interviewed really early on when she was starting the Oprah Winfrey show and someone asked her what happens if the Oprah Winfrey show does not succeed and she's like that's okay because I will succeed like I know no matter what happens with the show I will win I would like it to succeed I'm gonna work very hard to make it succeed but like if it doesn't that's okay and like you said it was about the effort she put in there was also a lot more to be gained than just probably monetary success I'm sure she realized she would gain a lot of relationships she would you know perfect her skill of being an interviewer there's a lot of other perks to doing this project and doing the show separate from just the typical markers of like high ratings and lots of money flowing through so yeah I mean I think it's a great point I'm you know Sarah Blakely is another entrepreneur who I really look up to and you know when she was younger at the breakfast table or dinner table like every day her father would ask her how did you fail today and so it's it's praising effort but maybe it's even like praising success and failure and like being so real about the outcome like you did this well you didn't do this well and they're equally great and I think that's something that I will actually say I I feel like I am getting better at is I really I am not that scared of failure. I mean, I am. I am in the sense that I obviously don't want to fall in my face, but I think for me, as I do more projects and as I get older, I realize that it's really just a numbers game and, you know, like another quote, but the Netflix guy, the Netflix founder, I think it seems like Mark Randolph, I want to say. I think he talked about how he had like started six businesses before Netflix and you, if you were to go back to him and ask him at the start of all seven businesses, including Netflix, which one was going to succeed, he would have never been able to tell you Netflix. Like you just, you just don't know. And it's all about trying seven businesses and knowing one will succeed and not being scared of the six that fail and believing in yourself to know that one of the seven things you try over the next 10 years is going to succeed. And I think that's why I've also been, you know, doing a million projects and trying so many things because like I know that like big picture, I will succeed. I will be okay. I will make my, the mark that I want to make, even if all these little things don't work out the way that I want them to, I know that I still will. And so when I have moments where I, I'm doubting myself or if something does fail, I just, yeah, I love that Oprah quote. I feel like it's so powerful. And she's like a shining example of someone who despite a lot of, you know, triumph and pushback and she's just trials and tribulations, she's really succeeded. It really is such a powerful quote. And I love that you brought in that quote from Sarah Blakely. I think it's also mentioned in her master class, which I loved. But around just like constant failure. And I think there's so much failure that has to come before success or rather so many successful people have experienced like more failure than their successes. And that's kind of like what's gotten them to where they are at that point. And I'm sure, you know, in that journey, patience is like incredibly important and very much required because it's so easy to feel discouraged after experiencing failures or setbacks. And it's super hard to be patient, especially with yourself. I think it's easy to like preach to the choir and to other people, but it's very hard to take our own advice and to be patient with ourselves, especially. And I wanted to hear a little bit from you more about the value of patience and what it's been like for you throughout all the accomplishments that you've had in your life and giving a TED Talk and being a social entrepreneur and now being it made for, you know, throughout the failures that you've experienced or just the trajectory that your career has taken, how have you learned to deal with patience and being patient with yourself? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, it's really hard. I struggle with impatience a lot because I have all these goals and things that I want to do, but I know that it requires time and consistency and effort. And, you know, it's not easy. I mean, a good example that I'll give is when I was starting my second business, I was in college. And I was basically a B2B apparel business, business to business, working with nonprofits. And so, you know, big picture, I had to onboard a bunch of nonprofits. I had to get nonprofits to want to work with me who did not know me. I did not have credibility. I believe I was like 20 at the time. And I had this big vision that I would be working with all nonprofits and I would help them generate all this revenue. And, you know, I remember I reached out to, let's say, 10 nonprofits, cold email, 10 nonprofits. And maybe one got back to me to set up a phone call. And I remember being so excited. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is going to be my first client. And I remember I got on the call and they said, so how many nonprofit partners do you already have doing this? And I said, well, you're, you know what? So funny you ask, you would actually be the very first one, but we have all these ideas. And, you know, and I gave my best pitch and they said, sorry, no, thanks. And I remember being like, oh my God, how am I going to get this? I already reached out to 10 and got one to do a phone interview and then said, no, so it's like, oh my gosh, okay. And that's kind of when I think some people would have been like, okay, screwed, this isn't a good idea or I don't want to do this or whatever. But then I was kind of like, okay, then I guess it's going to take me reaching out to another 10 to get another phone call, you know? And then it's going to take, you know, five sets of 10 with five phone calls to get one yes, you know? And so that was basically what I did. I ended up over the course of two issues that we were in business. Like I ended up cold emailing close to 4,000 nonprofits. And what ended up happening was after the first 10 said yes, I went back to the ones that said, no, and said, hey, I've got these 10 on. And then the ones that still said no, after I got 100, I said, hey, I now have 100. And what happens is I'm a huge proponent of law of averages. I think it rules the world. It's how Bill Gates got Microsoft to be what it is. He pitched it to a bunch of people. And I think like 11 people said yes. And that's Microsoft. You know, like you don't need everyone to say yes. You quite frankly need 1% and if you calculate, you know, one out of every 100 people I reach out to is going to say yes. And out of every, you know, one that says yes, I generate, let's say $1,000. Okay. Then this is how much it costs me to reach out to everyone. And this is how I can scale my business. And you just kind of work backwards. And I make it sound simple explaining it now. It requires a shit ton of grit, you know, to like keep going back and keep hearing no. But with time, it starts to kind of snowball. And then after you have those 100, you're like, okay, I have a business now. And then everyone starts coming to you. But it just takes those first few yeses. And so I say that because I think like that, I mean, that was probably the greatest example of patients I've shown because it took so long. But you know, it wasn't easy. But I feel like that's the only way that you can really build things. Honestly, when especially when you're in your 20s and you don't have credibility is to just be consistent and be patient and know that again, defining your numbers, like if one in 10 say yes, then you have to reach out to 100 to get to 10 and whatever the numbers are. So anyway, that those are my thoughts on patients. I think it's extremely, extremely important. And it is like the key to success, especially when you have very little credibility. That is like golden advice. Very, very important. I mean, I'm so impressed that you just kept going at it because I would have been like I would have stopped. I would have been like, oh my God, that's so many, you know, nonprofits to reach out to. It's exhausting. So something that I know I need to work on is being more patient because I tend to be a very impatient person. So that is good advice for me to hear, especially moving into the new year and thinking about resolutions and goal setting. And especially, you know, for my listeners who are mainly young adults, if they're looking to start something knowing that being patient and being kind to yourself and not beating yourself up over those failures or those knows, it doesn't mean that it's a no for the entire thing. You just got to keep going at it. And just being persistent and developing that grit. And Angela Duckworth wrote this amazing book around grit and resilience. And I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's so good. And she just talks about how grit is really like that defining characteristic or feature for those who get far in life and, you know, really accomplish a lot. And I think it's such a powerful quality to have because if you're willing to put in that work, you're only going to yield, you know, the result that you're looking for. And maybe it's a combination of manifesting. And like there's tons of other things. Also, that probably play a role in that accomplishment, but grit is definitely super important. Yeah, I love Angela Duckworth. And the book grit is extremely awesome. I think one thing I would say on that too is like I think it's also about celebrating the small wins. So it doesn't feel so daunting. Like I think when I got my first yes, I was like, heck yeah, I'm celebrating. I worked really hard to get my first yes. And it's only uphill from here. And like I think if you don't let yourself celebrate those moments where you do have a small win, you're not going to also be patient enough and make it work and be gritty enough because it's really, really exhausting. And you have to celebrate the wins as they come because they're so few and far between, especially in the beginning. And so I would say having grit is key for sure. I definitely agree. But I also think that to have the grit be sustainable, you have to celebrate the small wins. And that's something that I really pride myself on. Like if I get a good piece of feedback or I get like a big client that I wanted or I get an opportunity that I really wanted, I make sure to treat myself. And we all treat ourselves in different ways. I don't drink. I don't like to drink, but I love like iced tea. I love smoothies. I love drinks. Like I love like version pina coladas. And you know, I have my drinks that I love. I love to go to Starbucks. So when something good happens, I'll go get myself a Starbucks. And I'll treat myself and I'll celebrate it with like a very small win or I'll buy that book. I've been on or all, you know, take a friend dinner or whatever it is. I would say I think along the journey too. Like I've found that that's at least helped me be sustainable when I am working so hard. And I am getting a lot of nose. You have to celebrate the yes. That's also something that I've preached on this podcast more around the context of like sustainable happiness and endorphins is focusing on those small wins and celebrating them because we often overlook the positive things that happen in our life. Like we're so hyper focused on negative emotions and negative experiences. That's, you know, just how our brains are wired. The negativity bias. We tend to outweigh the negative experiences and see them as more impactful than the positive ones. And so it takes a very, you know, intentional redirection of our attention to the small wins, to the small things that have happened in our day or in the past few weeks that have really brought us joy or like are just really awesome things that we Enjoy and in love and instead really redirect our attention to those because when you can start to see that pile up and like kind of You know aggregate into the it just builds into this one like great big thing and you you come away from it feeling like oh my god Like there's so much I have to be grateful for or there's so many amazing things that I've Happened that have happened in my life for so many amazing people I've surrounded myself with like that's a huge win and a huge Celebration so I love that bringing that mentality also into like sustainable grit like celebrating those small wins And I think also and as you continue to do that practice you in a way or Creating more opportunity for that to happen in the future because you're putting that Positive energy out there and what you know you put into the universe comes back to you in one way or another So I think it's also a really cyclical process. Yeah, I completely agree with you and you know You understand it better than anyone because of your neuroscience background But like that is actually how our brains work, you know, you know You find the good and you create more good and I think like one of the simplest practices that I know of and that I try to do Frequently I'm I'm not as consistent as you know some other people are but that gratitude journals, you know running down What you're grateful for can help yeah make you happier and you know create those endorphins like your podcast name those everyday endorphins Exactly all about boosting those endorphins and I think this is a great segue into talking about Your work with made for and I know made for is really science-backed and it's focused on personalized health and this really cool intersection between psychology and neuroscience and Living a healthier happier life. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about what made for is how you got involved from its inception and where it's going now yeah definitely so Made for is a year-long wellness program that helps you build positive habits and a growth mindset so you sign up we have one program and It's our hero program and you basically go through a variety of habit forming exercises and daily challenges and it helps you really reconnect with your Health foundation so you know You might be someone who's really good at Focusing on your breath work and your movement but maybe you really struggle with headaches and you need to be drinking more water and Paying attention to what you're putting in your body or maybe you're someone who feels like you're doing everything right But you just cannot sleep at night and I what's really cool about made for is we really help you do this like year-long overview Sort of like a health intake and you really get clear on your relationship with your habits and with your health and So it's really fun. We do everything from sleep to you know nature your relationship with nature movement connection your relationships gratitude is it one of the topics we focus on so Yeah, so that's made for and it has been an incredible incredible journey so I joined as a second employee so I'm one of the founding teammates and It's kind of a crazy story how I got involved It still sounds kind of surreal explaining it, but I So it's getting my master's degree at USC and I was taking a course with Jessica Jackley Who is a really successful social entrepreneur? She created Kiva, which is a micro lending platform for developing countries They have generated over a billion dollars in loans Unbelievable she's also a founder of a new company called Altruis. That's amazing. Everyone should check it out And she taught this like eight-week course at USC when I saw her name on the Portal I was did a double take because as a social entrepreneur I obviously knew who Jessica was I'd actually learned about her when I was in high school And I could not believe she would be teaching a class at USC So of course I enrolled and I got a spot you know the first day of class we walk in and She's there and she says so guys this class is basically going to be a combination of like going through the UN global goals But also me bringing in some of my friends who have done really cool, you know social impact work Entrepreneurs themselves and they'll just come chat with you guys I know it's like I'm a sucker for a speaker series class. I really am and She said does anyone have any dream guest speakers and at this time I'm getting my masters in social entrepreneurship I am I've started my own social enterprise so I'm like deep deep deep in this world and Of course the person I raised my hand and I say I would love to have you know Blake my Koski come and speak and he is the founder of Tom's shoes and Tom's still to this day is sort of like the hero social enterprise that a lot of people think about He created the one-for-one model and really created the field of social entrepreneurship specifically for profit businesses that do good and She said okay, I'll see what I can do so then a few weeks later she says Lake is gonna come speak next week He's gonna Skype in and you all can ask him questions. So it's like oh my gosh This is insane the night before I stayed up really late researching Read a bunch of articles wrote my questions come in the next day I get to ask like a question and I was just blown away by him and if anyone's heard him speak before he is a real like powerhouse he's he's very very captivating and awesome and clearly a visionary and It was just really cool to have that experience Then fast forward a few weeks later Jessica pulls me aside and says So Blake is starting this Company it's gonna be his next business after Tom's and he wanted to know if there was anyone in my class that I thought might want to get involved and work there as an intern And I was like you're kidding right? She was like nope and Long story short that is how I got connected with made for and so I met with You know the team at that time it was just the other co-founder Pat and Lindsay who is the first employee in absolute rock star They both are Pat and Lindsay and Anyway, that's that's how I got involved and so I couldn't tell anyone what I was doing for like the first year We were figuring out how to make made for happen and then I transitioned when I graduated from being a intern to being a full-time teammate and Yeah, then we then we built the business and so I've been there for three years and it's been a really really wild journey And I'm extremely grateful to them and obviously to Jess Jacqueley who I owe everything to because She is the one who connected me with them So that is my long-winded story, but I feel like it gives a good background in terms of also like how important great mentors and professors can be And if you really go the extra mile to connect with them they will Hopefully look out for you and help you in return. So That's how I got involved That is amazing like honestly you never know what is going to happen in your life and what opportunities are going to present themselves and that is just and like Totally represented in this story of how You got involved with made for and I love how it was also through a class. I loved like so many my classes at WashU and Something that I loved a lot about college more so than high school was that you really got to build a relationship with your professors and You got to understand that the professors that you had teaching these courses were more than just a teacher like they have lives and they have Other contacts and they they're involved with other things beyond just teaching and so Something that I really valued in school was developing relationships with teachers and that's kind of also like why I miss Being in school like I love working But I also do miss school because I miss being a student and getting to learn every day and getting to have those really interesting relationships with just amazing teachers from from all over the world So I think that's so incredible. I mean did you ever Anticipate that your career would kind of go towards the health and wellness Track when you were getting your masters like did you ever have that thought about going into the health space? Yeah That's a great question. So I feel like for me and it's funny because a lot of this stuff is like hindsight is 2020 But so I grew up in a family where everyone was in medicine my twin sister is gonna be a doctor Her boyfriend's gonna be a doctor my mom's a doctor my dad was a doctor Ants uncles the whole thing and I Was very much grew up around science. I actually I my mom was a single mom So a lot of my life I literally spent in the hospital like in the side room On the computers or watching her surgeries and so I'm very very comfortable and familiar with health and medicine and science and You know, I always knew that was not my path. I have always been really different. I didn't I didn't love science I understood it But I didn't love it as like a career path for myself in terms of like being a practitioner But I just have this comfort with it because I grew up around it and You know my mom and sister are also vegan and so we've had you know And it's been an interesting You know growing up in a household where food is such a Focus And so I think it makes a lot of sense that I went that route. I think it's something that I am comfortable with and that I do really enjoy the health and wellness space for sure I just didn't ever want to be like a doctor or a nurse or in the actual health care field. So I think that's it's kind of the perfect blend actually made for has been like satisfying my entrepreneurial bug, but also I have this context of growing up in a family where science and wellness and health is the absolute priority. And then I also think, you know, one thing that I really think about the health field that maybe isn't spoken about enough is, and maybe with COVID it has, but it's actually for me a lot of what I grew up with was like this priority around service and how, you know, being a doctor, you are constantly serving your community and taking care of people. And so I think there's this comfort with science and there's this comfort with wellness, but I think more than anything like it was ingrained in me to be serving others, no matter what I do. And so I think that's all, you know, it made for we're just serving our members and I find that so, so satisfying. And the other founder of made for so Blake is one founder and Pat is the other founder and he was a Navy seal for nine and a half years. And I mean, talk about someone who lives a life of service, you know what I mean? Like he is, he is the shining example of that. And he, you know, gave his life and surrendered everything for almost 10 years serving our country. And obviously as a Navy seal is an extremely extremely challenging mind bending career path. And now he's serving our members and helping to build made for. So I think I've learned a lot obviously from how I grew up, but then I also think actually being it made for and getting, you know, close to Pat, I've seen how important service really is. So I think no matter what I do moving forward, I made you more stuff into health and wellness space just because I think it's essential, but no matter what, it will all be about service for sure. Totally. And especially around just this passion for social entrepreneurship, I feel like it's totally revolved around service as well. So it makes sense that it's all very much intertwined and interconnected. It's so fascinating that you mentioned that your family is in the medical field because I think you really came from this unique position where you had an understanding of what it's like to be a practicing physician because your family did that and does that. But you also now are kind of seeing the health care field more from a business and entrepreneurial perspective, which is super cool. I mean, personally for me, I intended on doing the pre-med track in college and I never ended up doing it, but my major was a combination of philosophy and neuroscience and psychology, which at the time felt like that fulfilled my passion for science and brain science. But now that I'm not actually pursuing the medical track, I'm not in, you know, pine a med school or going down that route. And I'm working in consulting. My goal is to kind of try being involved in the health care space from more of a business perspective. And then also with this podcast around, you know, having conversations on redefining health and happiness. And I think it also kind of ties back into made for his mission around, you know, focusing on the health fundamentals. And what I love about what made for his doing is that it, you know, through this approach in this program, people can feel empowered to take a hold of their health and understand like the nuances and complexities behind health because there's not really a one-size-fits-all sort of picture. And there's so much, you know, beyond just taking care of ourselves at the most fundamental basic levels that can actually produce our healthier lives. Like there's so many different layers and complexities with how we manage our health, which can ultimately determine, you know, our well-being and our satisfaction and our happiness. So I love how there's this really integrative holistic approach from the platform. Yeah, I mean, that's really how we designed it. And I think like you said, every person is so different. And we all come from such different backgrounds and experiences. You know, I come from a medical world, you come from a different world, and you have a different major than I do. And we all have our own relationship with our health and with our bodies. And we all have our own preconceptions of what health is, right? Like I grew up in a vegan household. So, and I grew up in a very scientific household. So I have my own ideas around what foods I should be eating and how I should be taking care of my body just because of that, right? And I'm sure you have your own ideas on it as well. We were talking before this about yoga, right? Like how you have studied it. And so you really understand breathwork and movement more than the average person. And you understand it through the lens of yoga. We all have our own biases. And I think what's so powerful about made for it. And what I've personally found so gratifying is we really help you figure out like your custom rule set. And what habits you need to work on and what habits you want to continue building. Like, you know, one of the best examples I can think of is like, we hear all the time that you need to be drinking. What is it? Like what's the most recent one? Like five bottles of water a day or 48 ounces or you know, there's always these numbers and they're always different. You can find an article that always have like I feel like every single bottle number or ounce number has been published in an article that this is the ideal number. And they can all possibly be true because they're all different. And I think the approach we take at made for it is like, yeah, the reason why they're all different is because we all have different needs, you know, and like I'm someone where I need to be drinking three bottles of water a day. When I hit four or five, like I am peeing all the time, it's too much. I'm annoyed and it's not really adding much more value. If I'm doing two, I can kind of feel a difference. If I've only had one or zero, I have a headache and I have to like take ad villain drink water and you know, we're all so different. And you know what, you probably have a completely different number than I do. And it's important that we take time to stop and evaluate our relationship with all these different pieces because they are all interconnected, you know, if I'm getting up all the time to pee, I'm not sleeping very well, you know, and if I have a headache, I might think it's food related, but it's, you know, so I think that's what I love about it is we see everyone kind of uncover. We've had people who go through the hydration month and they realize like their relationship with like alcohol or soda or some of these other things that like we never mentioned. It's not part of the thing, but because they're paying attention to what they're putting in their body and their health from a more macro lens, they're able to make other decisions. It has ripple effects. And so yeah, it's been, it's been super satisfying to be a part of and you know, build this, this program and work with such awesome people. So those are such great points. I think, you know, we often can really move passively through our health and not really take an active stance. And until we bring more intentionality behind, you know, what we consume and how often we move and how active we're being and the people that we surround ourselves with because you know, our emotional health really can directly affect our physical health. Then I think we start to like play a more active role in our well-being and start to actually understand what is good for our bodies because it's not that one size fits all equation. It's so personalized and tailored to, you know, a specific person. And I love how Made For's also really focused on habit creation and formation. I mean, that's something I'm super passionate about because, you know, the habits that we have ultimately can shape our decision making and the choices we make. And that will determine a lot of the events that we experience in our life. And it's so hard to break old habits. And there's tons of research out there about habit creation and moving into the new year. We're all, you know, trying to have our goal setting and intentions for the new year. And it's so hard to make these things stick by something that I found really interesting as this concept around habit stacking. So if you, you know, every morning you wake up and you make your bed and you brush your teeth and whatnot, and you want to re- you know, you want to introduce maybe journaling into your morning routine. Instead of just saying, okay, I'm going to start journaling tomorrow and I'm going to stick with it for the rest of this year. Now every time you make your bed, commit to writing down something for five minutes. So you're stacking that new habit onto a pre-existing one. And I think the research shows that that's a really effective way to actually build new habits and make them sustainable. Yeah, that's fascinating. I mean, I think that makes perfect sense is, is it's also like, you know, one thing we talk about too is having like physical reminders. So, you know, if in your head you're like, okay, when I make my bed, I have to journal great. But you also maybe you just put your journal on this edge of your bedside. And like that is like the physical reminder, you know, we talked about this earlier too, but you know, Dr. Andrew Huberman, he's an amazing neuroscientist and he's actually created our program. So we he's very close with our founding team and he helped us build basically all the challenges. And so, you know, he is someone who I think is really a great expert on this. He actually released a podcast episode today specifically on this, which is very timely for the new year. If you guys want to check that out, but he he really has helped us understand the science behind habit formation and you know, his whole thing is all about like neuroplasticity. So, you know, it's all about small steps, doing things over time, rewarding your body, reinforcing it, and then kind of keeping that loop going. And that's how you create real change. He talks about, there's two ways to create brain change. The first is a very traumatic or dramatic event. So like, think of like a car crash or a wedding or something really big and monumental that kind of happens in a split second or in a day, or it's these small changes over time, daily consistent changes. And you know, there's no real science around exactly how long you need to be doing a habit. There's the 10,000 hours thing. There's the maybe 21 days. It's all everyone kind of has their own thoughts on it. But it is this idea that like if you do the same thing over and over again for an extended period of time, you actually can change your brain. And even past the age of 25 and I'm sure Stella, you know this too, like because you've studied this much more than I, but you can totally change your brain after 25. And this idea that our brains are forming, then they stop is completely false. And so it's been really fun to work with him and build the program. And it's obviously it's all rooted in science, which I think as someone, again, I grew up in the scientific household. Like everything I do is rooted in fact as much as possible. I try to be very logical and scientific with a lot of the things I do. And so that is also the beauty of it. It's not some magic pill that has hypothetical powers. It's like a tried and true program that is all rooted in real science. Absolutely. And yeah, totally on neuroplasticity, our brains definitely can keep changing and evolving. I'm sure to an extent they quote on quotes, stop growing at a certain age. But even beyond that, we're constantly able, we're able to rewire our brains beyond the age of 25, which is fascinating. And there's tons of emerging research in that space. And I love the work that Dr. Huberman does. I think he's such a fascinating person. And hopefully maybe one day he can come on the podcast to actually talk about the neuroscience behind endorphins, because all of the hormones and chemical molecules in our body, the way these, you know, they're chemical messengers work. I just, I think, are fascinating. And as I've grown older and dealt with like health issues, I've realized the power of our hormones and how that can really shape our well-being and our physical and mental health. But aside from all of that, I think this is a great place to land. It's been so incredibly wonderful having you on the podcast, Erica. And to tie everything together around your career path and social entrepreneurship and building in that grit and resilience and patience into your life and sustainable grit through the act of celebrating small wins, my final question to you is something that I ask every guest that comes onto the podcast. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins or happiness every day? Man, that is a good question every day. It doesn't have to be every day, just something that brings you endorphins. You can feel free to have it open to interpretation. I think for me, the thing that brings me the greatest happiness is having my health. And I know that's a lot of what we just talked about, but, you know, I, I wake up every day and I'm just so, so freaking grateful to be alive. And I think, you know, having our health, having our life ahead of us is all we need. And I think, you know, I've, I've had people in my life pass and there've been, you know, things where you just, you wake up every morning and you're like, if I am not sick, if I'm not terminally ill, then I have everything I need. And I think keeping that perspective is really, really important. And I think that prevents me from getting too sad and getting too, you know, down in the dumps, because I just know that like, you know, someone who is sick and has a billion dollars would trade everything to have a life with perfect health. And we all get a limited amount of time on this earth, you know, so every day that I get where I, you know, feel good in my body, I feel good mentally, I have in no expiration date, like that is a huge win for me. And, you know, Gary Vaynerchuk is a hilarious motivational entrepreneur speaker. He's such a character and I think he's awesome. And he does talk a lot about this too, just gratitude is everything. And so I think that's what I would say has been the thing that gives me indoor friends every day is just like reframing and being very grateful for my health. GaryVee is awesome. And I love that you brought him up because in my mind, he's been relevant around, like, educating me on NFTs, which is totally different from your answer to this question. But I love and appreciate that answer. I mean, even up like the smallest scale, I know that when I have a stuff he knows, I'm like, I literally cannot breathe. And then you take for granted all the times when you are able to breathe normally through your nostrils. And that's definitely like on a small scale. So if you, you know, have ever dealt with a loss and a family or close friend, it really does put into perspective how lucky we are to have good health every day. And I just think we have to bring attention to that. And I really value that answer. So thank you for sharing that and thank you again, so much for coming on to the podcast. Where can my followers find your podcast and your social media, and your listening links and everything? Where can they go to find you online? Awesome. Well, thank you again for having me. Such great questions. You are an awesome interviewer. I see very, very bright things for you. Not that you need it, you're going to do great. But so yeah, so I am on Instagram, Erica underscore Wanger, and then the podcast is called Dear 20-something. So we're on all podcast platforms and it's just at Dear 20-something. And if you go to my personal profile Instagram, you can get access to links to made for and the podcast and the TED Talk and some of the different things we chat about. Amazing. Thank you so much, Erica. Thank you so much, Stella. Thank you for listening and remember to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things that bring you endorphins every day. See you next time.