EP #55- How Our Relationships Affect Our Mental Health with Ilana Dunn, Host of Seeing Other People

[MUSIC] People more often than not end up getting hurt because they're not communicating and they're not asking what the other person's looking for and they're letting themselves get strong along in these situations that are going absolutely nowhere because the person doesn't want them to go anywhere but they don't know that because they haven't asked and they haven't been told that. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins. This week I had the absolute pleasure of bringing Alana done onto the podcast to discuss all things related to relationships, dating, post-college, and recognizing the role that relationships, whether they be romantic or platonic, really play in our mental health and our overall well-being. Alana is also the host of Seeing Other People, which is a dating podcast that discusses the tropes of modern dating and relationships. She also brings anonymous listeners onto the show to have vulnerable and open conversations about what they've struggled with in their dating lives, what they wish they knew when they were going through that experience and how they came out stronger. In this episode, we really dive deep into what it's like to date post-grad, how to make dating not suck, and how to effectively communicate so that you can actually pick yourself first in a relationship and do the right thing for you. Navigating situations, the whole thing, we've all been there. And Alana just had so much wisdom to share that I loved hearing during our interview, so I am excited for you guys to listen to this one. Let me know what you think. Let me know if her advice resonated with you, and before we get into it, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Inker. Hi, Alana. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be here. I feel like my endorphins are like multiplying as we talk. I'm so glad. I mean, this is kind of foreshadowing the very end of the episode where I will ask you what is something that brings you endorphins. So maybe give you some time to think about it throughout the course of this conversation, but super excited to have you on the podcast by the time this episode will be released. It'll be, I guess, cuffing season. Is that like February, January, February March? Well, that's actually when cuffing season ends. Oh my god. So this is how out of the loop I am with everything and given my lack of dating knowledge and expertise, which is why I'm so excited to have you on the podcast to talk all about seeing other people, the work that you're doing with your podcast and dating and relationships post grads. So to begin, can you start by telling my listeners a little bit about yourself? Yeah. So first of all, I'll start by saying I never know how to answer this question. That's the first thing you should know about me. But I am Alana. I'm 27 years old. I live in New York City. I grew up outside of New York City in Wachester County and I went to Syracuse for school where I studied television radio, film and music business. Thought I was going to work in the music industry my entire life. Did it for a few years out of college. Kind of got into music because I wanted to help people fall in love with music the same way I did by feeling really connected to their favorite artists and bands. And I very quickly realized that music industry was not a place for me. It was really toxic. My mental health was like deteriorating by the day. And I just realized that it was going to be a very, very long time before I could really make the positive impact that I wanted there. And at the same time, I was in a really bad place in my dating life. And I was really, really struggling. And I was looking for new jobs and wanted to do something totally outside of music industry. And I stumbled upon a role at Hinge, which was to be their video and content producer and run all their social media. And I was like, wow, like maybe I could use my skills to help people in a different way with their dating lives so that they don't feel the way I currently feel right now. And I got the job. I worked there for a little over two years. I started a podcast while I was there for them called dating sucks. And that transitioned into me going off on my own and watching seeing other people. And I've been doing that for a year now. I love that you called the podcast dating sucks. Like I feel like that's so ironic when you're working for a dating app company, which honestly like, yeah, I agree with that dating sucks. It's difficult. It's time consuming. It's exhausting. And your relationship, like the status of your relationship and dating life can like really impact your mental health and like how you feel about yourself in a given moment. So I just think that's so funny that you named the podcast dating sucks because honestly, it does. But then there are those, there are those those golden stories where you know, people find their significant other on a dating app. And it's like one in every like 10 I feel like it's either a hit or miss like you either find someone that had a successful relationship from meeting on hinge or bumble or it's just people are like exhausted and tired of using these apps. And it feels like they're going nowhere. Exactly. Yeah. It actually is crazy because as the years go on, it's like now more people meet on apps than in real life, which is so crazy to think about. But like it does seem like it's something that's impossible to do because like we're all on the apps and we all are just so burned out from it even like before we can even meet someone. And it's it's like we see all these people on social media, like in relationships and we're like shit, like why can they all do it? But I can't. And like I feel like I mean, I'm in my late 20s now and I feel like everybody I talk to met on hinge or bumble. And it's like I mean, I'm included in that now, but for a very long time, I wasn't and it's just so crazy to think of like this is what the world has come to and this is what dating is now and how did we get here and how do we do it? Like it does suck. It really does. Yeah, especially because I think like maybe our parents generation met more organically like in person. And now it's like the younger generation is meeting online. And it's like I think there's different types of etiquette when you're trying to find someone online versus things happening more naturally, maybe in person. And it's something that like I'm still trying to figure out like using these dating apps, it feels like is a whole challenge in it of itself. And there's definitely something to be said about the transition from college to post-grad like navigating a whole different dating scene. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about kind of any advice you could share on navigating dating apps and kind of stepping into a whole new environment when you're not in the college hook up culture. And now you're a working professional living in a new city or an old one for that matter and trying to figure out like, well, how do I actually date? Like what is that supposed to look like? Well, I really like how you phrase that question in the whole situation because like what what you're doing is separating like it is different when you graduate and you go out in the real world and try dating and using dating apps and you don't suddenly have like fat parties and like the college bars that you go to and your networks like that. Like it is so different and that's a really big challenge because you realize that you don't know like you don't know what you're doing and nobody gives you a handbook like you don't graduate and get given the dating in the real world handbook. So it is really difficult because it's like, okay, you're suddenly here. There's this big world. There's all these people. I mean, where do you begin? And it's like, okay, you go on dating apps. You're like, well, how do I know who's right for me? And like, do I just like swipe right and try and match with people who I'm like super attracted to? But then like, oh my god, am I actually ready to go on dates with strangers? Like, I remember my first date. I hadn't even graduated yet. It was a summer between junior and senior year. I was like working in the city. So I was like on dating apps for fun. Like, I don't know what the hell I was doing. But I went on a date with somebody who was two years older than me. So he'd like been living in the city for a while. And when we were there, I literally said to him, I was like, so have you done this before? And he was like, done what? I'm like, you know, like, met up with someone from a dating app and he was like, yeah, I haven't knew. And I'm like, this is my first. And like, I literally made a sheerist my first dating app date. And in hindsight, that is the most horrifying thing I ever could have done on that date. And it's like, it's so embarrassing. And it's like, well, like, but it's also kind of like charming and like cute to think about. Like how far I've come, but like, it is a whole new thing. And there's so many things to navigate. And so I think the number one thing is to remember that like, you got to go easy on yourself. You're not going to meet the person that you're going to marry like in your first, like, attempt at it. You know, it's going to take time. You're going to have to figure out who you are as a data. And what things work for you when it comes to dating and what types of dates you like going on and what types of people you want to get to know and who you don't want to get to know. And what types of dates don't work for you. I mean, some people like coffee dates, some people hate coffee dates, some people want to go for drinks, other people want to go for dinner, other people want to go for walks or do activities. And it's like, there's just so many different options of things to do of people to go out with of dating apps to download. And so you really got to approach it, I think, as a learning experience. And I think that's something that you can carry through, like, your entire dating journey is like, okay, with each date that you go on, you just want to learn something. It doesn't have to be the best date ever. It doesn't have to be the person you're going to spend your whole life with. But you're going to learn like something that does work for you. You're going to learn that, okay, this thing that somebody does is actually a red flag for me. And I need to avoid that in the future. Or I really like this thing that this person did. Okay, that's a green flag. That's something I need to look out for in other people I date. So kind of, approaching it as a learning experience and taking it really one step at a time is what I would say when you're first jumping in and forever. That's such great advice. I mean, I think in college or just in the past I would always approach dating or like meeting people is like I'd have these high expectations. I'd go into it with an expectation and I tend to like put all my eggs in one basket and really focus on like one person or experience at a time and I think that was to my detriment because then I would like hyper fixate on things that that person said or things that we did and the way I behaved or the things that you know we're left unsaid and it became like this really toxic mentality that I had created and this like negative feedback thought pattern loop that I had in my head and I think those thoughts I was creating was actually manifesting in like a detrimental situation for myself and making dating like this negative experience for me and I just love how you kind of like you know the advice that you're giving is more around like taking these experiences as learning opportunities and not going in with the expectation that you like have to marry this person because I think like a fault of dating apps is like when I'm on them I'm kind of swiping left to like almost everyone because I'm not initially attracted to the person when I see their photo or I think their answers are dumb or they're corny and it's just it's not my vibe and so I'm swiping left but then I like I've spoken to my friends about this I feel like there's tons of people I may have swiped left on but then if I'd met them in person you you never know like maybe that person you really have like an immediate connection with or this chemistry that just doesn't get across online through these dating apps so I love how like the approach that you have around dating and like using these apps is to just learn from it and meet new people because at the end of the day if especially if you're in a new city it's important to like put yourself out there and meet people and and just like build connection so maybe like dating doesn't have to be so deep like I think for the longest time it was like this intense like high stakes process but like you can really just have fun with it is what I'm hearing yeah there there's three things I want to call out from what you said and I hope I remember what all three of them were the first one is like yeah it's almost it's not fair to yourself to go into a date saying like okay like this has to be like this has to be it this person's the one like this is gonna be like the love of my life it's gonna be the best first date ever like that's not fair to yourself because like why are you like a putting all of that into this one person where like you're putting all of this hope and like all of this half future happiness for yourself like your it's contingent on this date and this person that you don't know it's also not fair to them like they're showing up for a date like they want to get to know you to their nervous to their struggling and their dating life too and so you really want to go into a date of like from the mindset of like okay like I want to have a fun night and if I like have fun if I learn something great if I want to see them again even better but like that's it like that's all that's that's the only thing that should be riding on a first date is like I want to have a good time tonight or I want to learn something about myself or about dating or about the world. The second thing is yeah exactly what you said like there are so many people who you probably swipe left on we all swipe left on who if we had met them in person 100% could have hit off it off with them had a great connection I mean even with our filters like we're filtering out people who are like below 5758 or 5959 some people even I know girl like I have friends who are girls who are 544 and their filters their height filters aren't six foot not only that's it that's like that is me okay that's a problem because look it's not like if you met somebody in person you guys were sitting down at a bar at a table at a party like wherever you were at a dog park or whatever it is and you you hit it off and then you you guys stood up and he was like 510 or even 58 like you wouldn't care because you already had that connection and you're automatically ruling all these wonderful people out and my whole theory about height is that the shorter the guy is the more they have to bring to the table because the more they have to make up for because they know that because of how girls approach dating these days so really like the gems are all hidden in like the like 5758 guys that's so my dad's like literally 5758 which is so funny but like you know maybe I'll have to test that theory out you should I agree it's like I we put like these boxes and these labels on earth these preconceived ideas as to like who we think is the most ideal partner for us but in reality like there's just no way to know unless you try it out exactly and and going off of that like I remember I was going through a breakup once and I it was this really crazy moment where it was maybe like a month or two after the breakup I had read out on the dating apps I don't think I was actually like dating anybody like I wasn't going on dates I was just kind of dipping my toe in the water and I saw my ex and his hinge profile and I was like I was on the subway like I remember it so vividly I was like I would never have swiped right on this guy ever even if he matched with me sent me like the most amazing opening line I never ever would have had a conversation with him I would not have given him the time of day on the app but we had met in real life and we had that connection and so it was just so crazy to see like what somebody looks like in their profile also like we have to remember like dating apps kind of expect you to be content creators of yourself and first of all not everybody has great pictures especially guys and not everybody knows how to like create craft a perfectly witty and it's like friendly and approachable dating app profile like that is so hard to do even me as a content creator with my dating app like it was a challenge for me so I think we really have to give people the benefit of doubt and if there's somebody that seems like they could be a good first date for you then just go on the date like you really never know and I think we've all like swiped left on our the person that we should end up with like a million times you know so just be be a little cognizant of that and update your filters and be a little more open so don't be like me basically but you know we're all learning so exactly it's a continuous learning process and I think you know going off of that once you start going on dates and you're figuring out your preferences you know the things that you like on a date and the things that you don't like doing on a date or like the the type of people that you like to be around kind of using these dates is more learning opportunities and just figuring out you know what works for you what comes next so like let's say you're seeing someone you've been on a few dates it feels like it's going well like normally I feel like in college the timeline like the arc of like a relationship is you're casually hooking up and then like someone wants to make it exclusive and then you're exclusive and then it's either like it ends or it's like okay let's just date now and then you start to date and you're like in the relationship with this person but I feel like in the quote unquote real world maybe that timeline like doesn't necessarily you know there isn't like one size fits all in the real world so my question here is like once you're going on a few dates someone and it seems like it's going well like how do things evolve naturally in the real world like how are people navigating that when it's not like you're going back to someone's dorm or off campus apartment and you're just like living in that college bubble so the good good news and bad news the good news is it's really not that different you know you go on a bunch of dates like you're hooking up but things get more like physically serious whatever you start spending more time together that stuff all still does happen sometimes you'll have the exclusivity to talk I mean that doesn't go away that's 100% the thing in the real world and so that's a good thing where like it's not this whole different set of rules you have to learn to play by but the bad news is that everybody comes into a date like each person on a date has their own expectations has their own things that they're looking for in their own end game and somebody might just be getting out of relationship and they might just want to keep things casual another person might be like okay you know what I've been on the apps for like years now I really want to be in a relationship like I'm only looking to date somebody seriously like if I like you like I'm not seeing anyone else I expect the same and so everybody's coming to the literal table on their first date with a different set of expectations and things that they are looking for and so unfortunately you got to figure out what those are and those are really awkward conversations sometimes but they don't have to be but people put so much pressure on asking that question of what are you looking for where is this going that they don't do it and that's the unfortunate part is that people more often than not end up getting hurt because they're not communicating and they're not asking what the other person's looking for and they're letting themselves get strung along in these situations chips that are going absolutely nowhere because the person doesn't want them to go anywhere but they don't know that because they haven't asked or they haven't been told that and so I think in terms of timelines and in terms of actually getting to like if if what you want is to be in a relationship you need to know that you need to tell yourself okay I want to be in a relationship and so when I start to have feelings for somebody I am going to have a little check in with them and again it doesn't have to be a big scary thing it really doesn't all you have to do is say like I'm loving hanging out with you I just like what are you looking for out of this or like I know for me like this year is like the quarantine has been really hard and lonely and I'm definitely looking for something like more serious what about you that's it it It's like a very normal conversation to have, but people are just so afraid to have it that people don't have it. And that's what gets us into trouble and that's what gets us hurt. And I mean, I know for me, I've been in multiple situations in the past where I didn't have that conversation. They didn't bring it up. And so I'm assuming that I'm basically this guy's girlfriend where I'm like staying at his apartment more than mine. I'm meeting all of his friends. I'm literally met a guy's family at one point, like three months into us, like seeing each other. And so I was like, okay, like he obviously thinks, like I'm gonna be his girlfriend soon. It's just a matter of having that conversation. And then to my surprise, you know, he only wanted something casual. - Yeah, and I mean, I'm like, what do you mean? Like I'm literally your girlfriend. What are you talking about? But we didn't have the conversation. - Right, yeah. I mean, I hear this story way too often and like from my own personal experience, which has kind of embarrassing, there was a conversation and I had been very cognizant of the fact that, you know, it was going to be casual and deep down I definitely wanted something more serious. And I just kind of ignored that because I wanted to please the other person. And like that's just kind of like a lack of self-respect. And like it wasn't good. And so when you kind of lie to yourself and you suppress like your actual desires and wants because maybe you're ashamed of them or embarrassed by it or you think the only way it can work is if it's on another person's terms. It's only gonna hurt you at the end of the day. And it's like what actions can we take to prevent feeling shitty about ourselves? Like what can we do that's preventative rather and like proactive rather than like being reactive to a situation when it starts to go downhill in your perspective? And you know, I hear these stories way too often and like from my own personal experience, like this has definitely happened and it's so shitty. But you know, I think it also comes from like that lack of self confidence and self-esteem and being clear about what you want and not feeling embarrassed by it. I think we tend to feel embarrassed by like wanting something. - 100%. I mean, and I know you kind of started your story with like this is a little embarrassing. Like listen, there's nothing embarrassing about that. And that's how my story ended where this guy told me that he wanted something casual. And so I was like, oh yeah, sure, okay. And then my head on my challenge accepted. Like, uh, I'm gonna, you're gonna be my boyfriend soon. Like just just wait and see. And I did that to myself more times than I can count. And I got so hurt and I kept getting hurt over and over because I kept getting into the exact same situation. And I think it took until like the fourth or fifth time where like I really got hurt from like hearing somebody say they want something casual me like being like, uh-huh, sure. Yeah, whatever. And just like freeze letting it freeze by and like ignoring it. And I got to a point where I was like, I keep doing this to myself. Like nobody's forcing me to stay with them. They're telling me what they're looking for. They know what I'm looking for, but they're hearing me say okay to what they're looking for. So they're like, okay, well, she's on the same page now. Like they're not forcing me to stay with them. They're saying like, if it's okay with you, like I'd love to keep picking out, but I'm not looking for something serious. And I'm like, okay, when like I was like falling for them. And so it, it really, really sucked the life out of me. Like it was awful because I just kept doing this to myself. And it took us so many times of it happening for me to realize like, wait a second, like I can actually protect myself and not get hurt. And from now on, if I hear that somebody wants something casual, I'm going to say, okay, I really enjoyed spending time with you. And I wish you all the best, but we're just looking for different things. And I can turn around, walk the other way and not get hurt. I love that. And I think, you know, so much of the pain we experience in dating is like so self-inflicted too. Just like what you've been describing. And I think something that was like hard for me is that, well, if I walked away, if I protected myself, then it's, you know, you're losing something. You feel like you're losing something. When was there really anything to begin with? Like you feel like you're losing something. And then if you do walk away, what if there are no other opportunities in the future? And I think that was another thing like in college. At least for me personally, it felt like the playing field was very slim. And I mean, I guess we know that guys mature way slower than girls do. So it's very hard to me halfway. But it just felt like there was really no options. And it's also difficult when maybe you see a lot of your friends dating in college or being in a relationship and you're the only single one. And so I think we can definitely get into this more a bit later, just like navigating, matching up our timelines with our friends' timelines at dating. But I think there's something to be said about that negative affect weighing more strongly than positive affect, the feeling of losing something by leaving when actually you could be gaining so much more by doing something good for yourself. Yeah. And you're gaining something by doing good for yourself. But you're also giving yourself the opportunity to then move forward and find somebody who is going to be looking for the same thing as you and who is going to come into your life and fill up your world with all the things that you're looking for. And so yes, it sucks because you have to go back to square one and start over in a way and get back on the apps. And you don't have that person to call or to text when something funny happens. But I guess what you have all the other people in your life who are there to support you and help you through it. And you just have to remember, like, if somebody is not looking for the same things as you, it's never going to work. Like, you can't convince somebody to want to be in a relationship. You can't convince somebody to want something that they are not looking for that they don't feel like they're in the place for it. And if you do that, you're just you're really being unfair to yourself because you should be with somebody who wants to be with you and who wants to create a relationship with you and a partnership with you. And if it's something that has to be forced, it's never going to work for a million reasons. And it doesn't really resonate. I feel like until you have the experience where you can like, confidently look back on that and say, "Okay, I should have listened to, like, I should have done something differently." And it's so hard to like take good advice unless you kind of go through that negative experience, like unless you feel that pain because you don't really know that there's like the other side of it or like you can get out on the other side. And I mean, with many things in life, like a lot of golden pieces of advice don't really resonate until after the fact, until you've had that lived experience. But hopefully some of these pieces of wisdom that you're sharing with me and my community today, like we'll resonate with some people. And actually, like if you sit down to think about it, like I've done an episode in the past on like dating as a form of self-care, it is because, you know, we talked about going on dates to have them as an learning opportunity and finding out like what you want in a partner that is like most compatible to you and like your desires and your goals, but also like learning when to like walk away, like learning when to say no and having that confidence and like self-respect to do so. So there's like I personally used to think of dating as like this separate part of my life, like relationships is like a separate part like I family, career, school, whatever and then like dating and like romance. But it's so intertwined. It's one of those things where it's like your dating life impacts every single other part of your life and your life, every single other part of your life also impacts your dating life. And I kind of think of it that way with mental health too. It's like your dating life and your relationships will always impact your mental health and your mental health will always impact your dating life and your relationships. That's a really great way to put it. I mean, when I was kind of seeing that guy that I was talking about and I knew that I was not treating myself with respect, I was just so unhappy that semester at school. Like I was just, it was a very stressful time. On top of school things that were stressful and job things that were stressful and just so much going on, but when I look back on that time, it's like like that was when my mental health was like at an all time low. And then because my mental health was at an all time low, I was self isolating from people that I cared about. And it was just really this like negative cycle that I was, I'd fallen pretty deep into. So I love that you like make that, you know, comparison around like mental health and relationships. I think a really great segue to, you know, to talk about that impact of relationships and dating on just every aspect of your life is for us to talk a little bit more about like how our relationships with our significant others, you know, like when you're dating someone, like how that can affect your relationships with your friends and other people. I've heard way too often from close friends on, you know, stories of their friends getting into a relationship. And then all of a sudden they're always with their boyfriend and they're never around hang out or they're always with their boyfriend's friends. And it can be really like frustrating when your close friend or just a friend of yours, like all of a sudden is just like completely ditched you for someone else. So I'd love for you to share a little bit about like navigating those challenges and kind of like the reality of, you know, one that happens what to do about it. Yeah, I know you mentioned a few minutes ago that like in college sometimes like you could be the single one like your friends are on different timelines and stuff. And like I hate to say like that just gets to be more and more as you get older and it gets to be like way more intense too. And it is a really, really difficult thing to navigate. I mean, one of my favorite topics to talk about is how your relationships impact your friendships and how your friendships impact your relationships. And there are a few scenarios that you ultimately like are going to encounter. It's pretty inevitable. Like what so we'll start with what you first mentioned, which is when your friend gets into a relationship and you start to miss them because you start to not see them anymore. They get so wrapped up in it and it sucks. It really does because it's like, oh well, like now you have this person like you're so into them like you don't even care about our friendship anymore. And like what happened like, then there's another layer of like, well, what if it's an unhealthy relationship and you are worried about them and you feel like this person's bringing them down but they don't see it 'cause they have the rose colored glasses on of like this person is the greatest thing in the world and anyone who says anything else is wrong 'cause that's also a situation you will encounter. The best thing that you can do is reach out to your friend. Like, it's okay to say I miss you and it's okay to acknowledge and to address that you haven't seen them in a while but don't do it in an accusatory way. Don't be like, you're always with like, Brad or I never see you anymore. Like, why don't you ever bring Brad to the apartment? Why do you always go to his apartment? Why did I choose Brad? (laughing) Brad, chatting about all the things. We'll do that later. Yeah. And the reason I say like, don't approach it in an accusatory way is because if you say like, oh, you're always with Brad and you're never with, like you never hang out with us anymore, they're going to feel threatened. They're gonna feel like you're trying to take away time from you and Brad or like you are trying to sabotage their relationship, their happiness because they're happier now with Brad than they ever were before. And so the way to go about it is just reach out to your friend and say like, I miss you like, can we plan a girl's day? Like, can we plan a date day for like us to go do something fun? Or like, I know, or like, let's say they still hang out with you, but Brad's always there, be like, I want to plan a day for just us to like have an us day. And that's something that like my friend now, she is engaged now and like, she lives with her fiance. So a lot of the time when we hang out, it is like me going to their apartment and it's the two of them. So like, she and I actively will plan like we call them us days. And it'll be like an entire day where like, either like her fiance will be out playing golf. So like, we'll hang out the apartment just us or we'll go like make a whole day plan of something we would do a few years ago, like whatever it is, just to make sure that our friendship is still our friendship. Even though I I'm so happy for her, it's amazing that she is living with her fiance and they're getting married. And I have a boyfriend now and we the four of us hang out and stuff. But we really do try and make sure that there's still like time for our friendship. Um, so that's that's one thing. Just say like, I miss you like, I want to plan a day for us. Like, when are you free? You know, it doesn't have to be this whole built up thing. And I also would recommend don't like wait for all of your feelings to get built up like there are times where it's going to make you really angry and really frustrated and you're going to start to judge your friend and your friend's not going to know. And it's not fair for you to have all this like pent up frustration at your friend. When first of all, they don't know in second of all, you're not doing anything about it. And so I would say like, as soon as you start to miss your friend or as soon as you start to feel like your friend is kind of being distant or really only spending time with that person, that's when you should say, like, let's do something. And see how that goes. And then you can have like real conversations about what's going on. And you can then say like, I miss you like, I want to make sure like, we still make time for us. So that's the first situation. And the place where you really get into like a danger zone is when you don't think that the person is good for them. And it's like we were saying like dating is really hard and it's new. And you're meeting a lot of different people from a lot of different places. And who have a lot of different goals and values. And you will encounter people who are probably not the right person for your friend and who are not good for them. And I know I've been in that situation and I've also seen my friends go through it. And it's really hard because if anyone tells you that the person you're dating, like they don't support it or they don't think they're good for you or they don't think they're treating you right. Like it's immediate like defense mode, like putting walls up, like, go away. Okay, I'm not talking to this friend anymore because they're trying to ruin my happiness. And like I've had friends say to me like, like, Oana, we're worried about you. Like we don't like the way he treats you. And we don't like, like we can see that you're struggling. And I've been like, and I would push them away and be like, well, you don't see what it's like when it's just me and him. And that even then when I was in a place where I was struggling, I felt like, well, I can't now admit that I was wrong. And I want to go to my friends even though they were still there waiting. Like they were there for me endlessly. But I felt like I isolated myself and I felt like I couldn't then go to them even though they still like wanted me to. And I've seen that happen too. I mean, hopefully she hasn't listened to this but like there's a friend, a very good friend of mine who recently a lot of people, including myself approached her and said we really don't like her new boyfriend and don't think that they're right for each other. And it pretty much like her entire world has pretty much hung crashing down on her because she really loves this guy. And everybody else in her life does not see it. And it's impacting her friendships. It's impacting her all of her relationships. And it's something that's really tough because you want your friends to be happy. But you also want them to be happy with somebody that you think is good for them. And so it really can get in the way of friendships. And I mean, I've seen friendships get ruined over it and over who the person ultimately chooses. And so it really is tough. But you just want to, if you're going to say like, I don't think this person is right for you, really figure out why you don't think so. Figure out what about them, what about your friend with them. And make sure you approach it in a way of like, I love you. And I support whatever decision you make. And I'm here for you no matter what. But I have to be honest about how I feel about the situation. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think the wording, like how you choose to be intentional about what you're saying to your friend is so crucial. Because if there's any form of judgment that comes across, that's kind of antagonistic. And your friend will sense that and kind of shut off and defend their decisions, which probably might anger them because they're probably thinking, well, why do I have to defend my decisions to my front? You know, like I'm entitled to make whatever decisions I want. And so I think you're totally right. Like coming from a place of compassion and empathy and full support, no matter like what the friend decides. Because at the end of the day, like you're not going to agree with every single decision that your friend makes. And, you know, I luckily I haven't really had this experience, but I have had friends where they're like, yeah, I'm going to break up with my boyfriend because I really just want to be single. And then they're kind of like in a relationship right after. And I think like in the past, I've come to that with judgment, which is wrong, because that's only going to push your friend away. And you also, at the end of the day, like you're not walking in your friend's shoes. So you don't really know. Like there's, and oftentimes like we know that one emotion isn't simply just one emotion. Like we act out of like a combination of emotion. So maybe yes, like this person might have wanted to experience being single, but maybe someone else came along at like this coincidence. And maybe this other person like brought out qualities in that. And then that they didn't really get to showcase with their previous boyfriend. And so there's always kind of like more to the story than maybe what you are seeing as a friend. But it is also kind of a red flag when there's someone that you're dating and like no one in your immediate circle, friends family, whoever like doesn't like. And you know, for it to be that bad, there has to be some sort of like legitimate reason. Like you said, like come to your friend with, you know, really think about, well, why, what about this person, what about them with my friend, do I not like? Because sometimes people can be really limiting just, you know, in terms of like, you know, what you want to achieve for yourself. But then where it can also get really dangerous is like if they're, you know, emotionally abusive or physically, like if it's actually a relationship that's abusive on all levels or any sort of level, like that's immediately a red flag. And you know, I'm not to take this in like a really dark turn, but I recently just watched the show made. Have you seen it on that flag? Yeah. Oh, my, it's amazing for those, you know, my listeners who don't know what made us about, it's just about like domestic violence and it follows a story of a young woman who's a mother and kind of trying to leave her, her boyfriend or her partner. And eventually, you know, after a few attempts, she makes it out and, and, you know, creates a very successful life of her own, but it shows like generational trauma and trauma being passed down for mother to daughter and now this girl trying to like give her daughter a good life. And, you know, in cases like that, it's hard to get away. But that's like on the polar, you know, end of this spectrum. Just kind of came to mind as I was talking, you know, about being in situations that probably aren't the best for you. Yeah. And going off of everything we've been talking about, I think the biggest thing that I'll say and this is for any conversation you have to have with any of your friends about any relationship or if they're being MIA, if they're being distant, if you don't think their significant mother is right for them or is treating them well, whatever you do, do not have these conversations over text. Pick up the damn phone, go see them in person, do not have these conversations over text because if you do, you are signing yourself up for an absolute disaster. It's just, it's not, nothing is going to be resolved at all. You can't like gauge someone's tone across text. You can't actually like so much goes left unsaid or is like poorly misinterpreted over text. And I think that goes for like also just having serious conversations with the person you're dating or your significant other, like just having, you know, the courage and to be in person and like have those hard conversations face to face, although they may be very uncomfortable in the moment. are like so so important and it's a learning opportunity also, you know like Some of the you know the hardest conversations that you know, I've ever had as difficult as they are in person like they only are Doing you well in the future and in the long run. So totally great like you have to you know have the decency to just not get in that Feud over text and actually make time to like go see that person and talk to them about What's on your mind? Yeah, and beyond just about like decency It's like it's never gonna be resolved if you're doing it over text and it's just gonna lead to more frustration It's gonna be dragged out you're there's gonna be assumptions just gonna be misunderstandings It's gonna be screenshots sent to 20 people like it's I don't think I've ever heard of a serious conversation Actually like working out over text. It's just never gonna happen and yes It might be really scary to have these conversations in person You've probably never had conversations like these with your friends or about like really deep shit or about things that are Scary to talk about and that you're afraid to open up about and it's you just got to do it like The worst thing that happens is that like your friend doesn't really hear you and you're back to where you were before you Had the conversation but you also learned how to communicate and also listen to what your friend has to say too like as Every important conversation as much as it's about communicating what you're thinking It's equally about listening to the other person. I totally agree and we're often like so Exited on either saying the right thing or just speaking so we can hear our own voices that we're not actively listening And that's I think where a lot of miscommunication comes into play It's because like you're so wrapped up in your own head and like what you're going to say or not having that willingness to even meet someone halfway and listen to them You know either or and like that's where like there's that mismatch and you're you're kind of like missing out on such a important opportunity to like Clearly communicate with a person and like come to some sort of agreement or you know if you really care about your friend And you really want what's best for them you you have to you have to listen so that you can like move forward with that conversation kind of you know along these lines around like difficult conversations and dating struggles and hardships I know that on your podcast you have people come on to talk about like Issues they're experiencing and they're dating life or just like challenges that they've recently had to face What are some like themes that you've seen across the guests that you've brought on to your podcast? So the biggest theme and and I think every single podcast episode that I've ever done comes back to this one idea topic is Communication I think every single relationship problem that are dating problem dating at problem like every single everything Fight breakup like it all stems from a lack of communication or a miscommunication and it goes back to what we were saying before like We're not taught how to date. We're not taught how to communicate like we're really not like we go to school for all these years We go to college like we're learning about all these topics But we're not really learning how to communicate and how to communicate Effectively and how to be empathetic and how to listen and how to understand and how to Realize that you're gonna be with people who grew up a different way and whose values are based on The way they were raised and they might not understand yours and you might not understand them and The best thing you could ever do is learn to communicate well and learn to ask questions and really understand where Someone is coming from and learn how to properly express where you're coming from and why you are the way you are and why you think the way you think and So really like every single dating issue comes from a lack of communication and from not Knowing if somebody's looking for something serious or something casual not knowing where your situation chip is going or Like hearing that somebody said they don't want anything serious but being like, okay, that's fine Like sure same, but like you know in your head that that's not true and like you're just choosing to not listen to them and so it Really it's hard communicating and communicating effectively is hard and it's also It's not a one-person job. It takes to to have a Real conversation and to communicate well and so it's hard when like sometimes you might be communicating well And you might be opening up and being vulnerable and the other person isn't giving that back to you and That's another situation that you'll probably encounter in your dating life and you have to realize like Okay, you know what like maybe I'm working really hard on trying to communicate openly and honestly and the best way I can but That's not something that they've actively thought about how can I help them communicate and sometimes even in Helping somebody communicate the best way to do that is to ask questions. I know somebody came to me This week and asked me like what do I do if the person I'm dating like really isn't being vulnerable and like isn't opening up and I'm really trying to and I like want to get to that next level, but like there's like a wall up and it's like well Let's figure out why there's a wall up like maybe they just got like really hurt Maybe they're afraid to get hurt again and maybe that's why they're being guarded and trying to protect their heart And so maybe you can say like I am loving getting to know you like I want to keep getting to know you more Is there anything I can do to make you feel more comfortable and like opening up to me because Who knows like maybe they'll say no like don't want to hear what are you talking about like I feel totally comfortable or maybe they will Open up a little bit and peel back that layer and say no like you're doing all the right things I it's just gonna take me a little more time because of things that have happened to me in the past like xyz and that will Provide then the opportunity in that safe space to be open and to be vulnerable and so it's it's about asking questions It's about trying to understand where the other person is coming from why they're doing the things that they're doing and Why they are who they are and hopefully they're doing the same work to understand that in you Thanks for like you know backing that in Like some concrete examples because I feel like Like communication is thrown around a lot in like dating advice like communicate communicate communicate and what what does that mean just like Talk like talking a lot to your partner like getting to know them more like texting them a lot calling them face like Communication like the definition of that can take on so many forms But I really love that like you're very explicit around like Communication in the sense that like you actively have to put in the effort to always like have a check in and make sure you're You know in alignment with like your goals your desires your values and I think like Your value system is super important because if your values aren't aligned then like ultimately how are you gonna make something work if you have Completely separate value systems and like maybe you know, you just you just can't and I mean maybe their exceptions where Some values like you know at the beneath the surface. Maybe you like label them differently But at the end of the day like the foundation of that value is the same and like that's where I think it can work But you know if if you're really not in agreement with those fundamentals like those basic principles then Maybe that person's not for you. Yeah, and I mean that's a huge thing It's like people don't have conversations about like where do you want to live? Like where do you want to settle down later in life? How many kids do you want to have what religion do you want to raise your kids and like these are such like these are questions that Honestly should be asked on a first date because I see people getting into like Relationships and after a year they find out that they want completely different things one person wants five kids one person doesn't want kids And it's like then they break up I've literally even seen people get engaged and then find out that like one person like like Insist they have to move home to where they were raised and the other person wants to say exactly where they are and guess what nobody wants to compromise on those things and So you really have to like I mean communication takes on so many different things and and But like everything does come back to it And I mean I'll give another example because I think it's a really good one and something that like Especially if you're graduating college and you're moving to a different place and you're significant other You might be living at home for a little while they get a job and move to a city like you could end up in a long distance relationship And that can be a really scary thing and a really really big like mountain to kind of climb and Navigate and what I think and how to actually communicate in to make that situation successful is you have to figure out what you need in Order to make it work do you need to text all day or do you need to? Doesn't matter if you text all day, but have like a 30-minute phone call or FaceTime at night Do you need to see them every other week or just once a month like what is it that you need to make it work? You have to figure that out and you have to tell them because they can't guess they can't assume Every time it's not fair to assume that they're gonna know what you want or if they're not communicating enough It's not fair to them if you're not telling them like Actually, I really want to talk more otherwise. I'm sitting here feeling terrible and feeling like our relationship is already failing before like we've even really started this and And the thing it goes both ways you have to also like ask them like how what works for you in this situation? How can we make this work like it's a partnership? You have to work together Yeah, like huge takeaway and I'm so glad you bring that up because that's another thing I've been seeing a lot with my friends, you know recent college grads In a relationship in college and now people are in different cities and like almost every single long distance relationship I've seen has like now been has now ended for I think those reasons It's just too hard and maybe there wasn't that conversation about those, you know, what each partner needed and maybe what they each needed Like they couldn't provide for each other and so naturally, you know, it's the relationship's gonna end and I feel like long distance Relationships could be a whole other episode in and of itself because there's so much we could even talk about there, but You know unfortunately more often than not. I've seen it like not really work out except there is this one Content creator that I love and I've been following for years. Do you know Lucy Fink? Have you seen her stuff? Yeah, but she's now married Yeah, she's now married has a kid. I mean, but I watched her YouTube videos on how she made like long distance for, I don't know, like eight years or something work. I guess I think like her and her now husband were dating in high school and then they went to different colleges, but like maybe he was maybe a year younger or older. I can't remember. But then eventually they ended up in the same city and now they're married and they have a kid. But like on her YouTube channel and in her videos, she talked about how she made it work and it's like, you know, very similar to what you're saying about being very explicit about what you need and like, you know, how can your partner support you and like, are they able to do so? And I think you're really lucky if like you both can provide for each other what you need. And then, you know, all as well. But if it doesn't work out, then that's okay too, because like we talked about earlier, there's, you have to be confident that there will always be another opportunity. And it's very hard to believe that and see that when it's not like your current reality, but you have to have that faith and that trust. Yeah. And I mean, it's also like you look at content creators and influencers and people on social media who are like in happy relationships. And it seems so easy because you're not seeing all of the work that goes into it. So like people may be looking at Lucy and her husband and their kid thinking like, oh, well, like, of course, they have like the perfect life, perfect marriage, like whatever it was just easy. Like like she gets everything she wants, whatever. But it's like no, she has like they put in so much work. Like, behind literally behind every successful couple is so much work that went into it. And so it's not gonna ever be easy. Like if you have a perfect relationship that just falls into place, like you're lying, it's not that way. That's not true. That's not real. Quote of the day. If you have a relationship you're lying. Exactly. I mean, it's hard. And most things in life that are successful and that are fulfilling require a lot of work and like effort and energy. And yeah, you know, these things don't come easy. Aside from all of that, it's it's so refreshing to have conversations like these, you know, about the nuances of dating post-grad and just navigating those uncertainties and challenges and seeing, you know, what's kind of sticks from college and then like things that are like drastically different as not only are you managing like a new dating scene, but also a job or maybe you're back in school or you're in a new set like there's just so many transitions happening, which I think can also complicate just like figuring out dating. So I really appreciate you coming on to the podcast. You really shared tons of wisdom with my listeners and myself today. My final question that I have for you is something that I alluded to within like the first 30 seconds of this episode, but the question is what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? When I take my dog to the dog park and just see him like running around playing and being happy, it's like nothing makes me happier because it's like first of all I got off my ass and brought him to the park like that's hard, especially when it's cold now. That's a win. It's so cold in New York and I think it was snowing today. It was slightly snowing. It just it's not only going to go downhill for me. Yeah, but like just seeing him happy and like seeing how happy it makes me it's just kind of like okay if you like put in the work like I'm like raising this this child's like like but seriously it's like this is something that it's really hard raising dog and it's really hard doing it alone and it can be exhausting but it's something that I know means a lot to me and so just seeing him be so happy like nothing makes me happier. And just like honestly if you have a dog park in your city or your town like go do it it's free therapy. Seriously. Oh 100% oh my god I mean for the longest time I wanted a dog and I like almost made my parents get us one when I was like eight or nine and then that never ended up happening and then we moved to a different apartment and the building was like not dog friendly so that was like already a barrier but now like post-grad as much as I would love a dog it's so much work. So I think you're a few years older than me so maybe by that time I will be more settled and I can like actually take care of a dog but for now I just feel like it would not like too much responsibility. So I try to like moot off of my friends dogs when I look so far away. Oh Barrow Barkley anytime please. Oh 100% like I will be there to walk him take him to the temple that brings you into orphan so I can't take that away. No but like I'm happy to share the indoor fin rush you know like you can have some too. Well indoor fins you know they're meant to be spread. Exactly. More happiness for all. So I love that. Thank you so much Alana. It was wonderful having you as a guest. This was amazing. Thank you for listening and remember to like, rate and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading indoor fins and find things that bring you indoor fins every day. See you next time.