EP #52- Representation in Rowing with Arshay Cooper, Award-Winning Author of "A Most Beautiful Thing"

(gentle music) The same survival mode that tells you, if you hear a gunshot run, tells you in order to get back to the dock safely, you have to pull for each other. And when you do that, it becomes a sport of meditation before a sport of competitiveness. And so what the sport is doing is calming the daily storms that you go through every single day. Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins. You just heard from Arche Cooper. Arche is an activist, a rower, and an award-winning author of the book, A Most Beautiful Thing, which was then adapted into the critically acclaimed documentary film, which is such an incredible watch. I had the pleasure to sit down with Arche and speak about his experience being a part of the first black high school rowing team, which was a huge accomplishment in it of itself, given that the sport of rowing is historically white, nominated, and a very privileged sport. To give you a little bit of a background, if you're new to the podcast, or if you don't really know me at all, I used to do crew in high school. So I'm very well acquainted with the world of rowing, or at least I was for my four years in high school, and clearly rowing is very near and dear to my heart. So I'm really excited to have this episode be published today. And in our conversation, Arche and I talk all about what it was like to grow up in the West Side of Chicago, the importance of bringing representation into the sport of rowing, some of the lessons that he's taken away through being an athlete, and just how rowing is so uniquely positioned to bring a lot of calm and peace into your life oddly enough. Because if you are a rower, you know that it's one of the most physically painful experiences you can put yourself through. And aside from all of that, Arche and I just had a really great conversation on what he's doing now with the most beautiful thing, inclusion fund, and how he's really working to give back to underserved communities, and give them the opportunity that he was able to have in high school, and how rowing really did change his life. So it's a really inspiring story today, and I hope you all enjoy this episode. Before we get into it, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Anchor. Hi, Arche, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. - Hey, thanks, Stella. I'm excited to be on. - I recently watched a most beautiful thing. It was an incredible documentary. I guess we can start there because that is really centered around our whole conversation today with rowing and mental health and bringing more equity into the sport of rowing. So before we kind of dive into that, could you give my listeners a little bit of a background on who you are, what a most beautiful thing is, and what you're up to these days? - I live in New York now, but from Chicago. Our story really is based on an all black rowing team in the 90s on the West Side of Chicago that really got together a group of young men who honestly hated each other at first and became a brotherhood. And I know we get more into that, but how the power of the sport really changed our lives and created a bond that lasts forever. That's what Rowan does. And many years later, I wrote a book on the story, called The Most Beautiful Thing, and the book did very well in this woman named Mary Masia, who was an Olympic rower in the 90s, read the story and reached out to me on Twitter. And I was like, "Hey, I love the story." And I saw this, she was a filmmaker, and she did some really great film. Mostly her films really touch on social impact. And so I said, "Hey, you should come to Chicago and see what it's really like to be there." And as she called us from friends like Gregg Hill, then we got a hold of Common, then we got a hold of Dwayne Wade and in the Winkle Voss twins, they got a really-- Amazing, you had an amazing crew production team behind this. I mean, Dwayne Wade, the Winkle Voss is-- We have a really great All Star cast, and it was awesome. And from day one filming, it's been a blast. And not only has it been a blast, like the impact that it made in this country and outside of this country has been awesome. Yeah, I mean, I was so moved by the documentary, and I love also how you wrote a book about this experience. What better way to really capture something and hold onto it forever than getting it down on paper and seeing something that you've personally experienced come to fruition and come to life and something that you can share with others, I think is so beautiful. And I know you mentioned that you grew up in the West Side of Chicago, that's really where this story takes place. Can you talk a little bit more about what that experience was like growing up in the West Side of Chicago. Prior to this documentary, I didn't really know a lot about that area of Chicago. And I quickly learned a lot about what it was like to live there. And I would love for you to just talk a little bit more about your background and the environment that you were raised and how that kind of was transformed through the sport of rowing. Yeah, so again, the West Side of Chicago is a place where talent is everywhere, but access and opportunity is not. I mean, for every young person who grew up like I did, you grew up here in gunshots when you sleep, right? You've been chased, you lost friends to gang violence, you ran for your life, you skipped over pools of blood, you experienced what some soldiers have experienced in war, but before you're 15 years old. And there's no treatment, there's no resources to a trauma counselor or even social workers on the West Side of Chicago. And so when you are on your way to school and really just trying to be safe and survive, by the time you get there, learning itself the door, because now you're thinking about how I'm going to get home. And to be honest, that trauma on the West Side of Chicago didn't start in the '90s. If anyone know the history of Chicago, especially the West Side, it was built on trauma. A lot of families moved to the West Side of Chicago in escape the South because friends were hung on a tree or families was lynched during the Jim Crow segregation era and the South and these families have seen a lot. My grandmother was one of them, right? She's in her '90s and she's alive and well, but she still talk about the smell of burning crosses, right? And so when she moved to Chicago, she had a lot of trauma and there was no resources to talk about that. And my mother would say, I lost my mother to her trauma. And that trauma is racism. My mother pretty much raised herself and experienced a lot herself and she turned to drugs. And so growing up for me, I've never said the word to my dad at day in my life, my mother was some drugs and brothers and gangs. And I went to a school of that, was surrounded by gangs. And all I remember is this one day, knowing that, you know, saying to myself that there has to be something better, like there has to be something better. Not a great basketball player, a football player, but there has to be something else out there for me. And I remember just walking in the lunchroom and I saw this boat and the light came on in my eyes. I mean, how odd is that that there's a rowing boat in the middle of the lunchroom? How did that even get there? I didn't even, I'd never even seen a boat. That was like, what the hell? They're also very like peculiar boats too. It's not just like a regular boat, you know, it's the shells are very, very particular. Yes, it is, you know, it's dead. And I'm like, and who now we're going to get into this boat in the middle of Lake Michigan, you know? And it was funny though because, you know, we don't have a lot of white people working at our schools and then we saw this little white woman there in the lunchroom. And she's like, you want to join the crew team? And I'm like, crew, like, what is that? You're taught in Chicago if someone asks you to join a crew turn and run the other way as fast as you can. And I'm like, what crew? And I'm like, now there's so many gangs and crews. Now there's a little white lady at my school, starting to crew. What's happening here? You know, I was confused a little bit. But she said, you know, come over by the boat. And behind the boat, there was this TV monitor and they were showing the Olympic Games. And I looked and I was watching. And it seemed like a great opportunity. But no one on that boat reflect the world I was used to or look like the people I was used to see in. So I said no to the opportunity right away. And a lot of people did. And for us, I didn't even swim. And so I said no. And then the next day they had some Chicago pizza. And I was like, OK, let's see what this is all about. They knew if they had free food and they had pizza, they would get people hooked. I mean, that's a really great point you bring up. And there's a lack of representation. It's an even harder battle you have to win over to feel as if you're represented in a certain sport or you couldn't apply to anything into film, TV, modeling, whatever, it could be anything. And I think this is a living example of the detriment of having a lack of representation. Because think about how many people maybe would have been interested in joining the crew team if they felt like they saw someone just like them on TV at the Olympic. - Yeah, no, absolutely. And the representation is just so important because the next day when I went up to the info session, I saw this black man and I was like, okay, it was Coach Victor. And the cool thing about this program is that he wasn't a rower, but he was a strength in the conditioning coach. He was black and he knew the community. And so they brought him on the team. And a lot of people made their decision just based on that. And a lot of parents who grew up in the South saw that someone who looks like them was there and said, okay, I will allow my son to try this out because he was there, right? And you gotta understand that some coaches was frustrated because parents are like, no, I don't want my kids doing this. And they're like, what? Such a great opportunity, but remember that what these parents went through in the South, they're not just gonna deliver their son to a space that's mostly white people, right? And because of their experience. And so having Coach Victor there and then having a female coach was awesome because most of us was raised by women, most of our teachers were women. And I felt like because I was a sensitive kid growing up that women got me in a way that most men didn't. And I felt more comfortable with them. So having a woman, a black man and leadership really helped me to feel comfortable being a part of this team. - I don't know if that was actually mentioned in the documentary because I remember hearing about the two white male coaches that had started that program and one of them was definitely a character. Some of your teammates called him basically like borderline racist, which he probably was, but aside from all of that, I mean, that's kind of, those were the two coaches that I remember encountering in the documentary, like the two men coaches. - That's why I always say read the book first. - Yes, I definitely should have read the book first. - About a talker. - You got me live on this interview. I should have read the book first. And that's also what my dad said. He was like, you gotta read the book. But that's next on my reading list for sure. But I also, I love that you talk about the two different types of representation that made you feel a bit more comfortable on the team and joining the team. And when you came back, I guess, a second time and they had pizza and they got you guys hooked on the sport of rowing, what happened from there? I remember in the documentary, you talk about the first time you guys got out on the water and you said it was a feeling a sense of peacefulness. - Yeah, so it was beautiful. So, you know, in the book, it kinda really, I kinda break down what happened before we got on that water. We spent a lot of time on the York machine learning how to swim, some of us. And then we went to the tanks, which usually you do before you get in the water. When we got out there, the first time we was out there, everyone freaked out. And, you know, I'm talking, I had never seen grown black gang bangers cry. You know what I mean? It was crazy. And, but the second time we went out there, and you know, we learned a lot from, you know, the earth machine is sitting in the tanks, and really the, you know, the words of our coaches, but I think the first experience is that we started rowing in pairs. And you are, even when you're just at way enough, when you're sitting there, you know, holding the boat steady. The boat is credible in a way that you have probably never been credible before as a kid. And I was soothing. But then once everyone started to join in, and you're following a person in front of you. And you are starting to develop this magical rhythm. And the same survival mode that tells you, if you hear a gunshot run, tells you in order to get back to the dock safely, you have to pull for each other. And you have to follow the person in front of you. The sound of the blade hit in the water, the sound of the, or the echoes of the warlocks, the fact that there is no spectators that you can, there's only one person talking. And that's the coxen. And they're saying, sit tall, breathe. You belong here. And they're moping you and working with you as you're developing that rhythm. And so what the sport is doing is calming the daily storms that you go through every single day, that you don't get from football and basketball and football you show up. And the coach is like, knock 'em dead. And you have all this trauma. And people actually are fighting. And it triggers the trauma that you had growing up. Basketball is such a trash-hawking sport. And you hear things that like you suck or you garbage. And you heard those things growing up as a kid. And you get upset and it triggered the trauma. But the fact that this sport is not combative and not conflict, it truly becomes a ritual. Everything you just said, at such a granular level about the way when you feather the blade and when the or hits the water just way enough, I hadn't heard that term in years. And I almost forgot about it until you just said it. And it really immediately transported me back to my experience on the Harlem River. And I think that's what's so special about the sport is that there's a universal thing that every row where I think can relate to around that sense of meditation on the water. But it also can impact each individual's life so differently. So I was fortunate to not have those inner traumas growing up. And so it's not like I came to the water needing to calm that part of my nervous system. But even growing up in that kind of environment, there was still the chaos of school and stress and there was still a lot going on in high school. And I just remember distinctly being on the water was the only place where it was like an escapism where you could just get rid of all that noise and stress and everything that's happening in your day and you can just be present. And there's something so beautiful about the water itself. Like when it's still and very glossy and you can really cut the blade right into the water, it's so pristine. And I love about your common about the rhythm and the unity because rowing to me is a very melodic sport. It's like invisibly melodic. And if you're a rower, you get it because you know the sound of when everyone feathers at the same time and pulls in the blade. You can, it's like a sixth sense. And I think that's where that rhythm and melody kind of lies in an invisible way. And it's so beautiful and calming. And I think we constantly are always an overdrive, no matter the trauma that you've experienced in your life, especially if you've experienced really severe trauma growing up. And so we need something to kind of bring us back into our rest and digest part of our nervous system. That's super important. And I think if you can use it, I think that's what, you know, that was great with our coaches. If, you know, you can use the sport not just as a sport to compete, but for true wellness. You can do that with a lot of sports. Like we will use it as wellness first before you start to compete. You will be not only a better athlete, but a better person. Absolutely. Earlier you mentioned that when you were all in the boat together, you realized when you were coming into dock, you all had a, there was a sense of accountability for everyone. Like you had to rely on each other to be in sync to make sure you didn't capsize, to make sure you were steering the boat in the proper direction. And I'm wondering, you know, how did that sense of creating the team on the water and on the earth translate into actually building stronger relationships? Because I can imagine when you grow up in a neighborhood like the West Side of Chicago, where it's very violent and there's gangs and there's constant, you know, combativeness between two groups. There's a feeling of, you know, unsafety and uncertainty and just aggression. And, you know, I'm wondering how maybe that's that cultivation of team building, you know, that team building mentality brought maybe a greater sense of like empathy or compassion towards other people, like off the water and in your life. Yeah, great question. There's a few things. I think, I think number one, you know, you learn that in the sport that you can't do the work of eight, you need eight to do the work and you get them much faster, right? And so just number one, relying on someone to get to the other side of where you want to go. And I think that was a big part of it, but also, you know, I always tell you, and kids, if I can go back and tell 13 year R.S.A. anything, it would be that you don't have to fight alone. You're anxiety, depression, stress, doubts, fears, that you don't have to go through it by yourself. And that's something that we all did individually, because trust just wasn't there, growing up in a place like the West, the Chicago or in a school where everyone mostly about them, about themselves for certain reasons or, um, you know, talk about you behind your back so you learn to just be a loner. And so but Rowan teaches you that, hey, you can, you can get through anything, but you can't do it by yourself. And to break that cycle, you have to come together as one. And so that first lesson alone, that wasn't really taught by anyone, but the sport, but the boat really got us to understand, okay, we, we not only need chemistry in the boat, but outside of the boat. And the way we were able to do that first was at those regardless. Like we still didn't really get along in our first race, but the fact that we were the only ones that looked like us when we traveled, even if we didn't like each other, when I'm walking to you, the use the restroom, I'm like, Alvin, you need to come with me because we're not used to being in this space, navigating through white spaces. And so on that walk, we began to ask each other questions like, how do you feel here? Or what it was like for you growing up? How do you like it? What keeps you up at night? What keeps you going? And that's when the brotherhood kind of started between all of us. And so that was the beauty of the sport that you have those long fan rides, where you had forced to get the chance to know each other, but also being, again, like being isolated, helped us become one. Just like you think about soldiers many, many years ago in the 1900s, when black and whites didn't connect at all, and then you will send these soldiers to war and they were fight for each other and build this brotherhood because they was away from all the structural problems that America has placed upon us. And when you're isolated and you're fighting for each other and you have a common goal, you become one. But it's bigger than you now. And for us, it became bigger than sports. And we were forced to forget about what was happening that manly, what was happening on the West Side of Chicago. And we just was living in the moment and we had one common goal. And we said, listen, when we get out here, we're going to pull for each other. It's about us. We have the only ones out here. Our mother's not here. Our homeboys are not here. It's us. And so that's when the relationship began. So again, it was the lessons from the boat and it was being isolated, being the only ones that looked like us out there. And we understood too that if someone doesn't show up, the boat doesn't go out because it wasn't a lot of us. And so you saw in the film that one of the things I was able to do is I start showing up at everyone's house and we're going to school together. Like, come on, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. And so we learned that the whole aid doesn't move forward alone. And so that was kind of how we were able to build our bond. It reminds me kind of of Roni Works, like slogan or motto, like pulling together to push ahead. And I think that's such a very beautifully succinct way to describe rowing. You are all, you know, if you're in an eight person boat, you are all each and every one of you, eight of you are pulling the ore. You are physically, you know, powering the boat so that it can move ahead. And you can't slack off. You have to each, you know, put in equal amounts of effort. And that's how it, you know, the boat actually can propel itself. I love how there's, there's that sense of accountability outside of the shell. Like how you mentioned, you'd go to people's houses and say, all right, we're going to school together. Like it fosters this really strong bond outside of just being on the water or being on the earth or in the tanks. And I think, you know, that's, you know, just you're, you're looking out for people at the end of the day. And you're doing it out of a place of, of softness and kindness rather than like aggression or, you know, maybe if like you're in a gang and you have to like protect the other people in your gang, it's more out of like violence and aggression. But here this is an act, an act out of more kindness and actual compassion and, and coming together towards like a common goal and motivation. And I think that's, you know, another really amazing thing. Not the sport probably also provided you. I know this was like the first all black, you know, high school rowing team. And that's kind of when you started the sport, but you guys all got together again down the line. And, you know, when you were filming this documentary, you met with like an Olympic trainer and you got to like reconnect. Can you share a little bit about that experience, what it was like to kind of come back and start training again? Yeah. Yeah. No, that was pretty cool. So I think, you know, when the documentary started, the idea was like, okay, let's just tell the history of our team what it was like going up to Chicago in the 90s and how we got into the sport and what the sport has done for us. And I said, you know, the Chicago sprints was the first race that we lost when we ran into that brick wall. And it's, it's, it's coming this summer. And I was like, guys, I know, you know, I know we, you know, we, we're a little up there in age, but I think, I think we should race. I think we should, we should compete for our city and also think that, you know, there's a lot of young people and people in the West out of Chicago who have heard this story or read the book, but never saw it. But never saw anyone who looked like them in a shell. And so, you know, my challenge to guys is like, Hey, let's, let's, you know, get the Olympic coach involved and let's, let's do it one more time. And get out there on the water and roll for Chicago. Let's do it right. And that's when. And so, um, they was all about it. And it was, it was, it was awesome. We met at Preston's Barba Shop. And we lost one of our coaches had a heart attack, Michael Goreman. So that was one of the things that kind of brought us all together, kind of reflecting on, on, on him and the van he was and the bun. We all created back in the 90s. But it was, um, it was great to be able to go out there again and, and it feel like a kid again and, and build that relationship with the water and with the sport. And, and like you said, it's been a long time since you heard, we're not. And I remember going back out there and hearing again. It was like, it's just brought back that feeling and those faces and those, and those, you know, those memories of, of just being out there. It's a very vivid like experience to have again when you're back on the water. I mean, I haven't been back in a boat in years, but every time I passed by the Harlem River, it like, I am so vividly reminded of what it felt like to just be out on the water and to be with, you know, my teammates and have that experience. So I can only imagine like what it was like more recently to get together and, and kind of like replicate that feeling, but between, you know, when that high school rowing team started and then all coming back together to, to row again and compete and create this documentary, what were you up to, you know, in that like negative space and between those two parts on the timeline? Yeah, I was, you know, I went to, I did, uh, two years in a AmeriCorps and I went to the Quarton Blue in high school. I was all about being a chef. That was like my dream. So I went to the Quarton Blue, um, and, and then went to the Quarton Blue in England and it came back and it worked at a really cool French restaurant. And then I, um, my friend, Alva, who's on my team, they, you know, he's telling me about a, um, a job and, and, uh, working, it was a dream job, working with WWE wrestling, traveling as a personal chef. And so, um, I done that, uh, worked, then I worked for water brothers as a full stylist, food in New York, food brought me to New York and then, um, I became a culinary instructor. I found myself working with young kids, teaching them how to cook healthy food and, um, and encounter a lot of young people who grew up like I did. And these young kids had a lot of questions like, you know, how do I grow up here without a mother or without a father or can barely eat or can barely reach my dreams because of the daily problems I go through every day and be successful. Like, like, you did it. How do I do it, right? And I was fortunate to be able to help mentor some of these young people, but I felt like there was so much more to my story that can reach a number of people, not even just people who look like me, like anyone who ever struggled, like pain is pain, right? And how, as a young person, how do you manage that? How do you, uh, I used, I always used, uh, how do you, uh, recover from crafts, right? Crab's come to stop you from moving forward. And most of the time, it's unexpected. And, and those things happen as a teenager, like there's things that come in your life that, that, that's unexpected that stops you from moving forward. And one of the things you have to do is not let it knock you out of the boat. And how do you successfully do that? And I wanted to tell that story to the world. And I wanted, you know, I wanted people to unlearn all the things that they have learned about. people who grew up on the West Side of Chicago, right? I wanted to show the world what happens when a group of people, no matter where they from, the color of their skin, get together and give their time, talent, and treasure and access to a sport that people normally will have access to. What happens if you decide to go after it and give access and opportunity? And so I started writing. And I wrote this book. And I started off with a chapter and an outline. And I pitched this book to nine editors, agents. And they all said no. They was like, did you win Doe a gold medal? Buh-buh-buh. And everyone said no. They felt like it wasn't good enough. Oh, you don't have a writing background. You're not a writer. And Rowan teaches you to go after it, right? Just keep going for it. I just kept writing. And I wanted people to understand that when in a medal, it's great, but it's not everything. We live on the West Side of Chicago. And for so long, Chicago has been trying to solve, how do we get these guys from different neighborhoods to become a brotherhood? And Rowan saw that. That was a win. To culturally overcome the fear of water was a win. To be committed to a sport that was so foreign. When you show up every day at the Boat House, because we shared it with three private schools, and it didn't feel like you're home. When it wasn't warm and welcoming, when the photos didn't reflect the kids from the West side of it, they was trying to put in the seats. But we stuck it out, and we fought through it. And created a lot of success, like those were wins. And so I wanted to show the world what wins looked like. And so the book came out, and here I am. I think this is a great transition into talking more about the inclusion fund, because I think that's just such a-- it's so amazing that you've been able to kind of pay it forward through this inclusion fund. And I think what you're doing is just so inspiring, because you've clearly had this blessing to have this experience. And it's really helped you grow as a person, and move past some of the situations that you were raised in, that you couldn't get out of. And you were able to eventually get out of that. And now I think it's really amazing that from taking the lessons of growing, and through writing this book, and through working your time in culinary and being a chef and working with children, I think all those experiences are just so indicative of you wanting to give back to the community. And I think the inclusion fund is just such a shining example of that. So I'd love for you to talk more about the purpose behind the fund and what you're doing with that right now. Yeah, yeah, I talk about that. It's something I always wanted to do, and also to just use my life to give back to the place they gave to me and to the sport they gave to me. And there's two things that's important, I think, in lessons you can take away from the sport. The first thing is there are no cheerleaders. There are no bus loads of fans. There are no pet rallies. There are no million dollar contracts after college. There's no ESPN rower of the week. But what you will find is a group of people who will show up every day with no agenda. It's not about popularity. It's not about being on TV, but they show up at the rip apart their hands, they break their backs for themselves, and the person who sits in front of them, the person who sits behind them. And that was the kind of people that I need in my life. Those were the kind of friendships that I feel like every young person needs. That it's really about you and that person. And that's why these bonds and these relationships in this sport last forever, because you are sitting with someone and you're willing to go through the same pain with them. And so I think there's a lot of joy and friendship in that. And for me, it's like, man, if there's a really great restaurant that I love, I'm going to tell everybody about it. If they was given out free cash somewhere, I'm going to tell everyone about it, right? And if there's college opportunities, an opportunity to meet friends and learn how to swim and build like this spiritual life in sports, why not tell people about it, right? And so that's how I see the fun. That's how I see this foundation. There's kids out there that all they see is concrete and dirt. Why not take them to where there's grass and water? That is everything. And I think the second thing is the lesson I've learned, that was just the most important lesson I learned of rowing, is that when I walked into the foe house, we were taught to leave it better than we found it, right? So true. I totally remember that. And you had to carry the boats. And if you knocked a rigger, you were getting punished for that. You always had to be-- you'd treat it with respect. Yeah. And I was like, OK, coach, I understand that I can leave it like I found it. But I have to leave it better than I thought. But what if I didn't make the mess? And it was like, yeah, even if you make the mess. Why do you have to do that? Because not only you have to respect this equipment, but it makes it easier for the next group that's coming, right? And we've been at fit from the foe house. And when I learned from that every single day, it's like, OK, this is all the great things that happens. And last forever in a sustainable, if I can leave this foe house better than I found it. Now, if I can leave my team, my friendships, my relationships, my school, my community, my country, if I can leave it better than I found it, even if I didn't make the mess, it makes it easier for the next generation. And we benefit in some way, right? And I just want the world. I want the sport to be better because I'm here. And if we can embrace that, it's so much better because there's people ahead of say, oh, I have nothing to do with slavery. Why do I have to go, go, go? I'm like, yeah, yeah. But if you can leave the better than you found it, trust me. It makes it easier. It makes everything better. And so if we were able to embrace that in the foe house and outside of the foe house, I think it makes the world better place. So I felt like it was my responsibility to leave the sport better than I found it. And to create opportunities that makes it a last and impact on people lives. And so I've got together, again, a really great team of Olympians who are Mar-Bord members. And I created the most beautiful thing in Fluson Fund. And it's really to go into both houses and support programs that really don't have the capital to thrive or to compete. There's so many programs out there with athletes of color. But they have very old boats and novice coaches and less days to practice. And they go to a race and they lose. And people are like, oh, that team sucks. And they don't stop. They just don't have the proper tools to compete. But when you give them the proper tools, I think we will see more representation on the college level. When you have a coach who can really teach you how to move a boat and get the early scores that you want. And you may not be fortunate to go to a school that is considered that great. But if we can have some extra support around academics and college success, we will see more representation on the college level. And not to say that everyone looks like me grew up like I did. But-- and so we had-- while we had a lot of athletes of color and sport who quit, it was one of the-- one thing that a lot of people they'll talk about, it has been a cultural issue as well for a long time. There's a lot of people who are not only the only person of color on 18. They are interacting with 90% of those kids who never even interacted with someone of color. And you write Black Lives Matter on your Instagram. You show up and everyone's upset about it. You can't make the boat move fast. Because now you feel like this is not your team. And maybe they upset because you said that. And the coach don't know how to address it, because they don't have the experience, right? And so it becomes a cultural issue. And that's something that the fun also help with is training, D.I. training, Tarracism training, youth development training, and how to make your boat house warm and welcoming. and a competitive. of insularious environment. - I think that's so important. And, you know, I mean, my high school rowing team, Roni York was, you know, the foundations behind Roni York were to combine academic, you know, success opportunities with, you know, through the sport and through the rigorous practice of rowing for, you know, underserved communities in New York City. And I like, you know, throughout my time with Roni York, it was really amazing to get to see the kinds of successes that this program could give to students and, you know, give them opportunities, you know, to get into college and to go to college and to row in college. And even if they chose to not row, just even have the opportunity to get that higher education and to have that academic support as part of the, you know, the curriculum and the programming. And it's, I think that's what made Roni York so much more than just a boat house, so much more than just a crew team. It was this really strong community. And, you know, at the time, I don't think I fully recognize the impact of that. And now as I reflect on that experience, I'm so fortunate to have been in that community and a part of that community because it really opened up my eyes to all the impactful work that Roni York was doing then and is continuing to do. And, you know, especially it seems like it's very much an alignment with everything that the inclusion fund is doing as well. And it's like, you know, very gratifying to see these changes blossom and actually coming to, into practice and into play and really benefiting people's lives. It's really a special, a most beautiful thing. (laughing) - Absolutely. Now you're right. And I think that the beauty of Roni York, it wasn't just serving kids of color, right? And it was, you know, young kids from everywhere, right? And, you know, I do a lot of corporate speeches in these corporate speeches. You have a lot of white men, some people of color, some women. And especially after the murder of George Floyd, when I'm speaking to these groups, there's a lot of questions, simple questions like, how do I have uncomfortable conversations? Or how do I act someone, how do they feel on it? How do we learn and unlearn it? And these are the same, and these are from Ivy League professional people. And that they have the same questions that high school kids who are in the bow house, who are mostly white boys with some girls and some kids of color, they have the same question. And what that tells me is that for this older generation, they never really had these conversations. Or they had never been organizations in place for them to interact with each other. They always been segregated. And so I think it's very important to create sports that has a representation of your city, everybody, you know? And not just have them them practicing, but be really intentional about having conversations and learning from each other about gender, race, you know, all kind of identity, all kinds of things. Because if not, you just grow up, we grow up in the same world that we're dealing with now and nothing changes. So I think it's important to not only roll together when you have a representation of your city and the boat, but also, and that's what the most important piece of our team is that the chemistry didn't happen inside the boat. The chemistry happened outside of the boat, which gave us better chemistry inside the boat. How do you do that really having conversations and getting to know each other outside of the boat? And I think that will solve a lot of issues in our world if we can understand each other at early age. - Yeah, having the courage to have those and the comfort of conversations and approaching them with a sense of empathy and compassion and like an active listening rather than coming to snap judgments or feeling the need to argue or prove your point. And I think it's to what you said earlier about like having that ability to unlearn. It's so powerful. I recently read this book by Adam Grant called Think Again. And it's all about the power of unlearning. And you know, his argument is to challenge us to actively rethink our beliefs. And because there's so much power to rethinking and unlearning just deeply ingrained and rooted patterns of behavior and thought that we have. And especially with topics related to diversity and inclusion and in the sport of rowing and intersectionality, I think there's still so much work to be done. But I like that there's this starting point like you're saying is just really recognizing, you know, how can you unlearn these biases or you know, how can you unlearn these ways of thought that already kind of like exist in your head to foster that stronger bond outside of the boat house to then bring into the sport. And I think that's like super key. And I love that you pointed that out. Yeah, and that's just great. And I think the sport rowing teaches us that you cannot accomplish anything comfortable. You've been on that earth. And you've been in that boat. It's very, I mean, I remember I'd walk into the boat house with my heart pounding every day because I was like, what's the practice going to be today? It was like anxiety and voking. Yeah. And to get the scores you want, you are uncomfortable the whole time. And I think to get the results that we want, like we have to have uncomfortable conversations, like to get the results that we want. And that again, in a way that it's not calling people out, but it's calling them in, right? And you know, and like, you know, I, that's, was one of the reasons why I invited the cops out to row. I was like, OK, I'm not going to call them out. I'm going to call them in. And they're going to learn who we are. And we're going to bring them to a sport that brought us together. And what they would tell you that they learn is that what Alvin didn't grow up making bad choices, but challenging choices to survive. Like they realized that, you know what I mean? That what it was like to be us and grow up in a place that had its fair share of structural limitations, that everything that is going on in this community is a result of redlining and segregation and lack of access, the lack of opportunities, right? But the only way for them to learn was for me to call them in. And and and and and had those courageous and uncomfortable conversations. And we was able to get the results that we want. I'm so glad you brought that up because I was going to, I wanted to ask you about, and that was one of my favorite scenes was when your team was wrote, you brought the Chicago police department to come and like race in a shell with you guys. I mean, what is like more polar opposite? And then like bringing those two communities together, I thought it was so beautiful. And you know, definitely probably a very eye-opening experience for those police officers realizing, you know, it's not about making bad choices. It's challenging choices. And it's like, well, when you're in a certain situation or circumstance, you have to, if you're in like a constant survival mode or mechanism, it's not like you're going to have one good and one bad choice. There's not, they're not going to be desirable choices. And you have to figure out what feels the most right in that moment. And a lot of people, I think, you know, make stab judgments. Or I guess it's to the point of like, you know, well, you have to walk in someone's shoes to really understand their experience. And especially when you're dealing with the police department and especially now in recent years that have been, you know, more publicized around police brutality, I think it's more, you know, at the forefront of people's minds now around, like the realities of that. And I just, I thought that was such a powerful scene in the documentary. Well, thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. It was really incredible. And, you know, there's clearly so many lessons that rowing can offer everyone. And you've so eloquently described so many of them today to me and my listeners during this episode. So thank you so much, Arche, for coming on to the podcast to share your experience, talk about a most beautiful thing. I now must read the book. But I would also absolutely recommend the documentary, because it's great. I watch it on peacock. But one final question that I have before I wrap up this interview is something that I ask every guest that comes on to the podcast. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins? Yeah, I mean, chocolate, don't you? Me too. Me too. You know, I think I'll have to say anything with the rhythm and music, dance, growing, right? Just anything that has to do with rhythm, I make sure that I throw myself in that because those things that involves rhythm and many other things have been proven to to solve, to bring endorphins, I think, but also to solve many personal things that you go through in your life. And so I think if you can find what that is and wrap yourself in that rhythm, it definitely leads you to to be in that person that wants to be made whole in any way. - That's a really beautiful answer. I totally agree. There's something so powerful about music for example. And I came from a very music oriented background, before rowing, I used to sing and I used to dance ballet and I played the violin for many, many years. And the best feelings that I ever had, like playing violin for example, was when I didn't think actively about what I was doing. Like things just flowed and clicked and you're in that sense of like that flow like state of mind and everything's just kind of synchronously like coming together and it's so beautiful and it's like almost effortless. And something that I started to find with rowing in particular because it's so rhythmic, I was getting that same sense of flow from the sport and I think it was because of how melodical it felt. You know, like the most minute details, if you were really paying attention to everything that was happening. And I think there's such a strong connection between two things that may seem so separate. You know, violin versus a sport. Like the music versus sport, that seems very different. But at the end of the day, it's, they're very similar. And so I really appreciate that answer around rhythm 'cause I think that's so profound. And it's something that's accessible to all of us to bring into our lives day-to-day, to just increase our happiness, you know, just 10% more. So, you know, with that, thank you so much, Arche. It was really an honor having you on the podcast. - No, thank you. Stella, I appreciate it. Can't wait to spread the word, the news. And hopefully we can get out of the water this spring to summer with the rowing yard. - Yeah, that would be awesome. (laughing) (upbeat music) - Thank you for listening and remember to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things that bring you endorphins every day. See you next time. (upbeat music)