Ep 49: Lassan Bagayoko: Education Reform, Black Excellence, and Engagement at Cornell

[MUSIC] What's good family, Isha Boy Dana, James is second, and I'm your host right here on Black Voices on the Hill. Black Voices on the Hill is a podcast, a radio show for the culture. We center black lives, we amp the black stories, and it has the black experience that Cornell, Greater Africa, and beyond. Black Voices on the Hill topics range from racism, police brutality, colorism, sexism, to Greek life leadership, white elitism, and the Ivy League. Black Voices on the Hill envisions a Cornell that's sensitive to the fight of his black students, aware of the black excellence college town and on the bash about them changing the world. We see black excellence at Cornell. We believe in black empowerment, and we love the black experience. Listen, Black Voices on the Hill is brought to you by WVBR FM News. Just see one more news, an upcoming episode is for the other Cornell and Ithaca News. We should follow us at WVBR FM News, follow Black Voices on the Hill on Instagram and Twitter. We should have visited us at our website at wvbr.com/blackvoicesubscribe. Leave us a rating or review, y'all gonna love this episode. So make sure that you tune in on all podcast platforms, Apple, Google, Spotify, overcast, you name it. And we should tune in right here on WVBR 95.5 every Friday at 2 p.m. and the episode releases the following Tuesday at 11 a.m. Listen, I have a very special guest in the studio. Okay, listen, he's someone that is, I believe, very much loved on this campus. He is someone I've known as a freshman, considered my brother since day one that I'm doing. And he is definitely adored by many as a black male role model. He hails from Harlem, New York. He is a brother of the Alpha Chapter of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity Incorporated. He's been leader of BSU before and so many other roles that he's taking on. I have none other than Mr. Lasson Bagallelco. Say hello to the people Lasson. Hello, thank you for that introduction. I wanna start off by saying thank you for having me. Shout out Black Voices on the Hill. I really wanna make it so that I'm able to kind of share whatever you kind of have in mind. I think that I don't even know where to kind of start. I'm really just excited to be here. Think for having me really. I don't want to just start to remember. I'm a rambler, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, man. I want you to, I'm so excited for what you have. You know, it's easier to talk to you too because you have a passion. You have a passion that I've noticed since you were a freshman for everything that you put your hand to do. I remember when we were both freshmen, we were both like going to law school. And I remember the way the sign used to be law school was just always on another level. And I don't remember what if we had a class together or econ or whatever it was or something like that. I think we did have that. We had my, I think maybe micro macro we had together. And I want to know where that passion comes from. Tell me where that passion to do whatever you're called to do to do it. Well, let's do it. Great. Like, where does that passion come from? I would say, um, I feel like it starts off from like where I'm from, like my family upbringing, but they're also like being born or raised in Harlem. Like you know, if you from Harlem, you know, like we just only we exude energy, we exude passion at everything that we do. We have to be the best. How will we put out what we put out for it? But in that same capacity, like my family, my mom and my father definitely raised me to everything that I'm doing, give 100% if you're going to do it or if you're going to do something do it right or don't do it at all. Um, don't waste your time and always other people's time. And, and like you know, it like that was kind of my mentality when I first came here to Cornell. And it was initially in a track of like going to Los Maria, like trying to find ways to change people lives. And I thought that was primarily through a role that I can do that. Um, after my experience here at Cornell, I see so many different avenues in which I can do that. Well, still might be that route for me and the long run. Um, but that's, I think that's what ultimately drives my passion. One of the create change for me, um, for the people around me and for the people that I care about. Um, there's a lot of, I mean, everything, there's a lot of things that can always become better. Um, and that's kind of how I look at everything in life. How could I enter a certain space or, um, take on a certain opportunity and make it better. Um, and I don't always, I don't want to see them the best at that. But that's what I drive. I am I push myself to do at all times and every, and every space and everything that I'm doing. Um, and I definitely come from like again, that Harlem energy, but then also makes for like my familiar background, my mom and dad, both me and from my, um, people who came from Africa with every little and work extremely hard to like give my, me and my siblings the opportunities that we have. So I think them a lot for everything that I have and that keeps me going every single day for sure, for sure. That is absolutely beautiful, a beautiful way to tell your story and to answer that question. I think, um, you're the first person I think with, um, their home country or a background as being from Mali on the show. So, uh, a, that's, that's, you already said, travel is in this way. Yeah. Shout out, I'm up on Mali West Africa for the year. I think I'm Mali in two because I'm light skinned. It's okay. You could be light skinned from Mali and you could have an accent that sounds even from Harlem. People hear my accent. They be like, yeah, he's from New York, my family again, born in, I was not born in Mali, but both my parents were born and raised in Mali. I visited Mali five times over the last 20 years now. So like, I, I definitely am in two of my culture. Um, and I, and I show a lot of love back to Mali. People got to know me. It's a moose to look it up. That's right, bro. That's right, bro. Listen, I, I want to ask you about, you talked about having this passion growing up and it really civil for your parents and your home, you know, town, Harlem, New York. And, you know, Harlem, as what I see is very much being still and, but especially at one point, I mean, known as sort of a black mecca, you know, the center of black life. We talk about Harlem, Renaissance, we talk about, you know, I'm thinking about imagery of like Malcolm X standing on corners preaching, you know, that type of thing. That's the power. What is it like growing up in a place that has that type of history, especially in the lives of black people? And then I want to know a little bit more about what you have seen that needs to be changed or that you want to, and what realms that you want to affect change, or you grew up, you talked about like wanting to enter the law, the law field, and then you realize you could do that in other ways. But what did you see that made you feel like, all right, this, there is something that needs to be altered and adjusted in change and made better, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. I think what's really unique about Harlem is like you know, this kind of like the black mecca is very easy for you to like walk around on different like corners and like realize the like, I mean, Malcolm X, Malcolm X, you got MLK, a bunch of Boulevard and streets name that these historical figures, but even in that same capacity, when you're in class and eventually hearing about like the Harlem Renaissance, like it's like, wow, like we're in Harlem, until you go by, I won't pass 125th Street all the time. I'm seeing the Apollo, I'm going to get, I'm able to go to the Schoenberg Center and dive into that history. And what was really unique, I felt like I didn't realize this until after I really left Harlem had a chance to come to Cornell, that that center of black history or like information related to like black culture isn't available elsewhere. And I felt that honesty was an experience that many people of color, I'm not just black people, but people in general have access to, and then I realized like, nah, this is something unique, particularly unique to Harlem. Harlem is definitely a community. It's a unique one. It's a lot of things I was going on, but I think one thing that even like kind of pushed me to like, be a senior passion, what I was doing is going up in Harlem, the way that I did, made me realize that there were people who had a lot of resources, opportunities in the world, and a lot of people who did it. I remember right in my college application essay about just trying to open up the voices of the forgotten, like making it so that the people who are often forgotten about in Harlem in these spaces are able to kind of be highlighted and recognized. And again, going up in Harlem, I'm able to see people now with like, I mean, you know, the flow of gentrification, Harlem being having a historical significance. People want to come and be there. People who do have a lot of money. And as a result, or a lot of resources, as a result, you do see a huge divide, not for nothing. In the span of a few blocks between like, you would see people who have an opportunity to kind of do whatever they want. And then people who are more or less so generally have nothing but the pose on their back. And I feel like that made me like really passionate about kind of expanding on resource and opportunities for all people. I know a lot of people don't think like this but one way that I think is like, I mean, if you do have it, and it's not something that you, like particularly me, why not share with those who don't. And I feel like that's what kind of pushing me towards like the realm of law, just primarily because I've seen that a lot of things that were limiting people was the lack of insight about, I guess, like the legal system. And as a result, then being manipulated and falling into a lot of traps that let people go on a jail, or like not even just that, but more or less so made it so that people who did a world fund about the most able to take advantage of certain spaces so that they were able to kind of take on Harlem's history without really being a part of Harlem. And so like, for example, like I grew up on a 16th street for six blocks away, a central park, once you want a central park, like even central park that divide like closer to the uptown side, like one time street is a lot, there's a little raggedy. I will lie. It's like it's a little rough, rough on edges, but the second you get past 96, you see the most pristine parks. Everything is clean. There's a, the service just from the people within the park is a lot better. You don't see police officers stationed everywhere. I think that really pushed me towards wanting to make that, like I wanted that to be everywhere. I wanted that to not only be something that I once I get past 96, I know that I'm safe. I know that things are a lot better. So I feel like ultimately when I when I look back into my experience or Harlem, or like we're really like kind of pushed me to want to create change, it was just wanting to make things people, making us that people had opportunities, people like. And it was also like even me taking a look at like, I mean, I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't go up in the best of circumstances, but it was always like, I always was able to recognize it like, it could be worse, you know, because I was able to see that. Like on the block, like you're able to see like, like some people in certain, you know, it's not the best granted. It was not the best. It was eight of us in a two bedroom for real, you know, like it wasn't the best, but it was still a lot better than a lot of other people around me. And I, and I appreciate it that, and I mean, and it made me push for one that just expanded for my opportunity resources that were available for people in the area. A lot of programs like Harlem, Children's Zone and like the local community centers and a different housing projects is what really changed a lot of people's lives because they were literally just resources of opportunities that I want to do things that people otherwise didn't have the opportunity to do things as simple as being like being able to go to the library, they know how to get a library card. I'm being able to go on trips to like the net, until like the museum national history to go to the Shamburg to go to the Apollo parts of Harlem history that people in Harlem never got to really be a part of because they didn't know about it. So that's something that really pushed me towards a world when I initially came in, but I feel like with time, I'm realized that it was, it's more just a lack of education, not in a, not in a, not in a, in a little, well, in a literal sense, but more not in the way that we kind of look at all that we need to get through 12 education. So I don't really necessarily got it like that, but less than a capacity of, it's a minimum education and people being able to empower themselves. People think that's the only way that they are deemed educated by getting a degree or going through, they're going to the best schools, but it's not necessarily that. It's being passionate about your history, the things that you care about. Educare, education, the root of education is to nurture and to grow. And we don't spend a lot of time actually doing that. We spent a lot more time telling people, take a test, pass the test, get rid of this and be able to give it back to me by this date. And after that day, it won't really matter no more, but you did that. So now you're grown and that's not necessarily true. So I think that's like kind of where like even my shift in like, you know, there's a lot like more, but like you really see a lot of ways for us to change when we educate people and have them look at their lives and their development, or that's something I'm really passionate about now, I feel like. Did you see a breakdown that word, education, education? Is that Greek? Education is the Latin, is it Latin? Okay, Latin, okay. It's to nourish and to grow. That's what it is to nurture. I love that so much. You talk about some big things. You've already talked about opportunities, resources and also equality. I think that's interesting and share the story about, you know, realizing that things could be a lot worse. You know, I feel like that's a lot of, when you look at students that might come from either first gym backgrounds or just backgrounds that may have been shaped by hardship in any way, a lot of times, that is the disposition that you have to take on to be able to sort of persevere because that's a lot of the words that are used to describe people's experiences as well. And it's interesting that that's a thread that I've seen across so many students is like, it's not great, but it could be worse. My last guess I had on Miss Cario Horan. She talked about the same thing. And so she's, she's well into her 50s, I believe. So it's a, it's an interesting place, a juxtaposition to sort of be in her or a weird place to stand. You've done it well. And I think that you have persevered past that to, to get to Cornell as well. You talk about opportunities, resources and that type of thing, you know, from how understanding you went to public school. So what, what education, what, you know, education informally or formally, were you involved in that even made going to Cornell and opportunity or something that was within your grasp or your reach? How did you come to realize that? And yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, I started off going to public schools and public school for elementary school up until I got into Harlem, Vintage Academy's high school, middle school and then high school. Actually, now I want to pause on action to pursue the work as well, which is a charter school. So I did, guys, funnel from the public school system into the charter school system. And I would honestly say, I mean, there is a distinction primarily considering the fact that charter schools are just also able to access private funds. That's really the primary difference. And then as a result, they created like kind of a mantra or like a model and things that they, they got kind of focused upon so that they're able to get that private funding. But those schools, honestly, were both like, they were both in public, like partnered with public schools. Just in the capacity of social worker was separate, but it was a block away from where I grew up. People know, I got the grew up in that housing projects, like, right, it was a block away from there. And then, which was a block away from also the public school that I went to. So a lot of people as soon as that charter school get become available, funnel from that public school into that charter school, in the Harlem Vintage Academy's leadership, which was the middle school that I went to, in the Harlem Vintage Academy's high school, both at times were, were inside, were, were are meshed in with public schools. So my middle school, we were just on the fourth floor and there were a bunch of public schools underrated. I think ultimately that experience, again, really made me think about like, I'm, I'm blessed. I used to think that all the time, like, I have an opportunity that other people don't have. It may not be the best, but it's better than what, some with, what is traditionally being offered. And what particularly was unique about my education experience was people were, like, people would tell me that as you can say, I believe that myself, but the schools in and of itself still weren't the best. There was a fun or resource, but they were given to a small subset of those, of students. And the, beyond this, I was not one of those small subset of students, like, the gifted kids, however you kind of, like, they're grouped in, and they're grouped as different students in different years and in different communities. But more or less like that, small subset, I'm 15 and 20 kids who get all the, the special attention, um, who get all of the resources. And everyone else is kind of left, um, to kind of fend for themselves. And I was definitely one of those kids who was spending for themselves for a long time. Um, and, and I didn't have no problem with it just because everybody around me from my twin brother to like my best friends that I grew up with was with, like, what's kind of with me and that kind of, you, they were just kind of, we were the forgotten, like, we were the forgot and that's really how I look at it. Um, we weren't provided the opportunities and the funding that was available to the school and that could have been available. It should have been available to all of the students there. Um, it was really a series of different things that occurred, um, that made it so that I was like, I can't change my life through education. Um, I just wanted the opportunity that was unlike those around me. I've seen a lot of people, I mean, it, it sounds cliche, but it is true. Like, there was like, I'm in a room. I'm going to be a rapper who I'm like staked what I grew up in, which is like, what's the streets? And the real reason why it would deter me from that was like, no one is like, as successful as I guess I imagine to be going through those routes. Um, like, I didn't know no one from my neighborhood who went to the NBA shot on Mobile, but he's now in the end of the league. He was in the same, we grew up in the same neighborhood, but like besides him, like there was no one else who, who successfully made it from basketball and became rich, uh, check West. I would say as well. He's also from my neighborhood. He was a right. He's the only successful rapper that I know who grew up from my, from my neighborhood. There's a few other people are up and coming now, but like, that's just like the honest objective truth about the fact that people were not excelling the way that I wanted, I seen myself excelling. And I know, I know those two people kind of immediately come to mind because we literally all grew up in the same neighborhood. And it was literally the options of sports, rap, not for nothing in the streets. Nobody was even talking about academics, like ever. So I was like, I got to try something that no one else tried. And that's what really pushed me to like go from, I don't just read in this book for fun. Wait, I can actually like get a good grade if I actually like just pay attention a little bit. So I really just started with me just doing my assignments. Um, and again, that's kind of like, I feel like a huge problem with the K-12 system, like, as much as we are grading and developing students in different ways, there really is a matter of like, if you're doing it and not doing it. So I feel like I feel like keep students poor grades, it's more of a testament to the fact that they were not motivated to do their work. Um, and that happens for a series of different reasons, um, in which schools and curriculum teachers can help influence and change. It shouldn't just be, it shouldn't be a general system for all different types of students. And she into personalized to help motivate a student to learn and to want to grow. That's the end of there. But, um, it's more in the vein of eventually just was like, I'm going to, I'm going to get out of the academics like, that's the decision I made. Um, my older sister, she actually had a chance to go to private school. And she was always an extremely bright kid. I'm like, she's, she's still bright. She's a four by scholar now. Um, she went to Brown University. She did her thing. She did her due diligence. But actually, it was extremely different. Like she was able to get into a private school at a really young age. And again, that was, that comes from like my parent pushing. If you want to do anything, do well. So when she was doing, when she was doing one in public school, they was like, yo, we can, you can do well. She had people around and teachers around who supported her and that a lot for her to go on that trajectory. But I was saying she's, she and even in that same capacity, she's really like an anomaly in that sense. And I look up to her, I looked up to her a lot because it was like she has so many opportunities because she did well academically, not because she was focusing on things that other people told us to focus on. So kind of with that, that really made me like kind of look for opportunities within my school. That traditionally weren't offered to students like myself. Um, and it was a lot of back of both what like needs and professors. I mean, teachers at the time, professors still, finished school or teachers professors, honestly. But um, like who did not, I would feel like the better terms like me, I would say like I've had teachers straight up when it was tough me to apply to college and say they were not going to write me a recommendation. Um, and it is what it is. I understand and I respect it now. Like you feel me? Like there was things I could have definitely done better at the time. I feel like it's still kind of beastly to tell a student who's trying to go to college and she's not going to write them a recommendation for whatever reason that is. I mean, it's not, you shouldn't be entitled to a recommendation either. But what I, what I realized was that if I kind of take on certain opportunities in the one that I really kind of adopted was coming to summer college here. I called out. I was presented that opportunity of a, I say now with fluke. Um, I took the PSAT, right? The PSAT or yeah. One idea that probably wasn't within a plan on taking it. Um, I actually had to come to school. I had to return to their instruction. You know, I had to come to school. And from that, I took the PSAT. All of my friends, everyone around me was like, why are we taking this? Like it's a day off from school because even my school made it seem optional. Um, and they made it seem optional. It was, it definitely shouldn't have been optional. And, and a lot of students did come, but the only reason I ended up coming was because I had alternative instruction. I was mandated to come. Um, and I, and I did really well. I did really well to the point where these donors who were donated to my school, more or less so, wanted me to be one of the students who provided the those unique, uniquely funded opportunities. And I do want to think the cars family and as well as, again, my teachers there at Cornell. I mean, I said, I couldn't, at Harlem, journals are from Mr. Martini. I got to give it as his props who were like pushed for me to be in, for, for me to be in these programs. Um, shout out Mr. Louis as well. Mr. Bonet, Mr. Pounds along. I got to just shout out these teachers as they come to my head because they definitely changed my entire trajectory. Miss Cook, fifth grade, changed my entire trajectory. I'm just like academics. Um, and that, with that opportunity, I came into summer. So I did really one of my PSATs just fast forwarding through that story. I didn't want to go for the details. I had to take the PSAT. He did it really well. There was like, there we had to work with this kid and it gave me an opportunity that everybody in the school was available, but only went to those top 10, top 20 students. Um, so I was shocked. And of course, I was like, I'm gonna try to, why would I not go to Cornell? Yeah, paying for me, of course. I came here and like, my mind was blown. I was like education is so much more than history, science, math, English, ELA. Not even. No, it's so much more than that. Um, it's so much more than, um, then just being told to read something and give it back is so much more than just taking a test. And from taking a class here, I took international human rights and theory and practice with Professor Elizabeth Brunder, just to remember her to this day. Um, she changed, that changed my entire outlook on like school and learning. I was like, there's so much I can do. So I went from like that initial thought of, how am I gonna make education work for me? So having this summer college opportunity that maybe come back, um, come back after a lot of, again, wild summers in the city. I was, I had a 2016 summer. I was, I went to Molly that summer came back early. I went to Molly to kind of avoid the hecticness of the city. Um, 2017 had the opportunity to do summer college. So I was like, after that, y'all, I'm, I'm locked, I was locked in my senior year to high school. So it was like relatively late, but I was still like, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna give up this opportunity. Um, and so I just, like, I just got in the books. They're really well on my SAT and my ACT and had a lot for me to get admitted into Cornell. Um, I applied to a series of different schools and my application process literally was iron my pulled up because we did have a college per class. And I was now in the top 20 classes because of me going to the summer college. So now I'm with these students. It was, it was a good vibe. And, and it was, I wasn't, I was no longer with any of my friends that I allowed for me to kind of lock in on my academics. Um, but even in that vein, what ended up happening was, I literally pulled up a list. It was like a black and greenness. It probably would have hacked my computer if I didn't know, but it was like, um, colleges that, that if you were, if your family had to mix under 60k, you'll go free. I applied to the literature to those schools only because I knew my parents wouldn't be able to kind of afford from going to college. Unfortunately, I was admitted into Cornell, as well as a series of other schools. Um, but I think once I did get into Cornell, even then, I wasn't like, oh, this is a night reading. I'm going to go there. It was just like, oh, this is a free school that I got into as well. Um, but upon talking to other people, um, they was just like, this is the place for you to go. And, uh, I'm extremely grateful opportunity one. I mean, I kept those credits, so I rolled into credit credit card that I have that I have that ready to graduate. But all in order really, I'll make me again, extremely appreciated for the fact that I can change your life through education. Um, and a lot of times, like, I try not to like, I, I am, I would say the word is, again, I feel like honesty, frustrate with the fact that like these opportunities are only branded to students who are already performing at a high school, when education, again, is also nourishing to grow people from where they are, um, to nurture someone exactly. Like, and it's supposed to be like, I said, supposed to be like a community for your school. I mean, you're a community center, whatever. You're really supposed to like hone in on that community, not supposed to have a generalized curriculum. That, I mean, if it's a guide, it should serve as a guide, but how are you really nurturing somebody or helping somebody grow, if you know, but you know the person, ocean, I really look at what that person and because I was putting those top 20 kids, I started to get that support. Um, so, that really kind of changed my, changed my outlook and get on education. Unfortunately, I was able to get into more now, whether from, I think the, the rest is kind of history. I just kind of they're flowing and going through the central here, from there. Man, uh, that is also, it's so evident in the way that you tell that your story that you really have thought about this, uh, really just, how you got here is such a, uh, a delicate and complex twisted, a set of twisted turns. And I feel like you talked about, you talked about a lot. First of all, what were the three options you said? You felt like as a kid, you had in terms of getting out of where you were from. You said the streets. You said education. And what was the third? What was that? What's the education? What's the other thing? Right. There'd be a baller baller. There'd be a baller or you was rapping. Right. You was rapping like Davies, shout out Davies. I shout out my God. Mr. H, Mr. Hannon used to have us for, um, I'm not going to name these spots because people know that like if you know, you know, type of most spots, but like, it was very much so a vein of, um, when I was, it was very much, it was a vein of like, again, sports, Jews and sports, rap, quarter streets, whatever, like it was like education, as much as people say it wasn't optionally, it wasn't. I have programs like Harlem, Children's, like that really did, like try to push that narrative, like, oh, staying in school, my charter school, generally speaking, staying in school, um, and focusing on academics, but that's not what we were being nurtured to do, who being nurtured to, to rap, or to be, stay, stay where you, just stay where you were. Um, and I think that like, and that is what I feel like is problematic, like you know, to them, like life is queer with this twist and turns as everyone knows us sometimes learns, but like, it is a matter of kind of taking those twists and turns and making it something good for you. There was a lot of like, I get negative opportunities that I was like, now I'm gonna make this good, or try to find a way that this could relate back to education instead of what it could have been, um, because that's what again, like, I would have that I seen for myself, and it isn't, it is the K-12 system at least from talking to my education, like going on a higher, like going, coming to college and things like that, was the route that I took, and it's, is not the route that everyone needs to take. I genuinely would say that, but when you're talking about education in a regard and the capacity of nurturing somebody, allowing them to find their motivations and their passions, that definitely needs to be something we all take a look at. Um, again, you might not want to come to a liberal arts school and go through a degree program, like that's not necessarily what everyone needs to do. When people should know about their passions, people should have the chance to be able to explore their motivations. And if K-12 was already mandated for everyone, we should implement that through the K-12 system, not when people are already in college, um, or, I mean, because in my then, you already have the handful of people who are not in college, um, who are not taking on this opportunity. And I think it's, um, there's a various different schools of thoughts and theories that are like kind of open to this, but I really feel like we should take a lot of, I really, I'm pushing for taking, looks at different schools of thought, um, looking outside of, um, as developed in people's cognitive skills, so like being able to regurgitate information ultimately, and being able to focus on like people's behavior is, um, people's behavior is on developmentalism, different things like that, where, um, you're focused on student people's behaviors, people's eye, people's critical thinking skills, um, people who value modes and ethics, people are going with their hands, um, things like that, even as we look at this new day and age, like you're coming to realize more and more and more, especially like Google, especially Google, they have like TikTok now, right? Anything like the information that you're acting students to provide does not make sense to ask them for, to be honest, if you're being 100, like I'm not being asked, no one is being asked to refer to a specific year or date or time, we'll be able to interact from immediately because like it is true that we have calculators, it is true that we have Google to be able to search this piece of information, so you should know why it's important, not what exactly it is. And I think that that's, that's kind of what I've been, I think a lot about now because I feel like it's what deters people from school even more, um, because it's so much of focus on like knowing something that objectivity, you come to realize a teacher study or do you remember this, do you recall this, and you, you're looking at them Google in it, like so it's like why are you telling me force of me to memorize this, where we all know, even we talk to literally everyone, every single field, it's like, you know, that did not, that does not, it did not matter. So while we forcing students making them literally, like quite literally go crazy, if we're being 100, like making them feel that they don't belong, or like they're not competent, over things that we're all going to say five years, 10 years later, that it doesn't matter, it's, I think it's so detrimental to my person's development. And again, that's what I feel like I education system should be more focused on developing people. So good. And I was going to say about, um, those options you noted, I've noticed that a lot of, a lot of black people, a lot of, you know, black, young men in particular, because a lot of those careers, you listen like ball and write a lot of times that is something I see a lot of black men siling into as not even as men as boys into this is your option, entertain us, um, or nothing. Essentially, essentially entertain us or nothing. And I think that you choosing the route you did, it says, it just, it says a lot about in the ways in which you are radical about the way with your life path is about to go. Uh, you also talked a lot about just opportunity and also in the classroom. I mean, those teachers having teachers that are for you, I think is very much undervalued. I like the nuance that you give in terms of not blaming public school teachers, though, per se, or at least, um, things issues that you found in your school not being able to necessarily be solved always by admin or school, because there are a lot of different factors that contribute to that. And then I think it also though, the onus is not on the students, uh, for their, their, not meeting these expectations. I mean, the public school education system was designed to be punitive. And I think that that's just very true. And I think especially very punitive against black, black boys and girls. I mean, that's just, that's the fact. And I can, yeah. So, and I think, um, I think I can even in my own experience, I believe in I had a, when I was going to school, leave my public school when I was 14, 13 had a white teacher that didn't want to write me a recommendation. And, you know, I was, I was doing everything I thought was right. And I think that, you know, even if you, no matter what you do, if they want to, to stop your pursuit of a better education, your pursuit of some type of scholarship, they definitely can. And, uh, there's so many kids that get stuck in traps, but just because of that, you know, and I, you just hit it on the head, like thinking about how, and, and you, and you know, like you, and I'm, I'm, I know you. So, like, it's just your perseverance and making it happen. You're like, I'm gonna make this happen regardless. But like, people should not have to think like that for just objectively being true, especially in the space that it's supposed to help you grow. Like, and that is what it's so detrimental. I feel like, like, you know, it isn't teachers for at all. And it definitely isn't to students for, it's more or less so. I mean, everybody says the system. It is the system. Um, the system is made in its garnet in a way so that even like, particularly for public schools and public school teachers, like, they don't have resources. They are over their, overworked. They have, they have a population of students who are from so many different backgrounds and being told to teach one specific thing. Granted, yes, there needs to be a centralized or a generalized thing that you could say, I'm everyone do or should it be learning. However, it is problematic when teachers are forced to accommodate for so many different types of students, so many different types of failures within the school. Like, and I'm not, again, we're not talking about the students at all. We're talking about lack of resource. We're talking about lack of time and lack of time management from administration, lack of transparency from school boards and the people will hire up. Even right now, like, we look, we take a look at the grand, in the grand scheme of the difference, look at the United States government, 10% of federal funding goes back into schools. Maybe doing like billions, like would have been into the military. Like, why are like, you filming? Why is it that our education system is being funded? Like, or schools are only in fact to get federal funding from such a small percentage of federal funding. I mean, we know why it's so that these communities that do have higher tags are better funded and are able to function better. But I think about, again, having mentioned that is a student experience and again to the development of a student. And as a result, everyone around it from the parents, the teachers, to the administration. And it's not even a matter of like, trying to find who is to blame because the blame is on the system because we do have to work within the system. Like, even as being here at Cornell, like, we had to work within the system. We had to eventually find a recommendation, you know? Like, I had to eventually say, like, now I'm going to stop joking around. I'm going to take this test again. Like, you do have to work within the system. And that's where that perseverance comes from from different people in different capacities. But it isn't something that we should force upon anyone. It's not something that should be forced upon anyone. Again, that's not education. So I think about that a lot when I look back on my education experience. And like, you know, that earlier, like, I feel like, initially, it was like, oh, I want to become a lawyer, get people out of jail, like, be able to, like, kind of advocate for the voiceless. But I think I could be able to advocate for people by empowering them to look at education differently, kind of creating programs and initiatives that allow for students to develop within the system that we do have. I also change in it while also empowering students who believe that who know and see that they can do well academically in the K through 12 system and our general educate education system, even our higher ed. By following the rules, by also creating their own outlets to learn. And that's what I'm really kind of looking to hopefully do within the future. Again, really expand our outlook on education education, education programs, and things like that. Yeah. That's so good. And I want to talk a little bit about the fact that, you know, I believe at the end of the day, like, black children and black parents should have options about where their children go to school at the end of the day. Every door should be open to where they want to go to school. And I think that there are trade-offs. There are trade-offs for black children. Black parents that decide to keep their children in public schools. They're trade-offs for people that decide to go to charter school. Trade-offs, a lot of trade-offs when you go to private school, especially if it's a white private school. What do you think? Because the truth of the matter is, like, and the trade-off, I'll talk about, you know, just as sort of being in a, there are different set of circumstances over, covert racism, you know, that you might face in a, in a elite white private school. Imposter syndrome is something real that kids suffer with, you know, placing a child. I mean, the evidence and the research has already shown that placing children in white schools does not necessarily always increase graduation rates. It's really just removing a child that's already had probably a problem, whether that's just whatever the case may be, that contribute that, whether it's socioeconomic status, because a lot of times it's not necessarily just intelligent. They keep shooting these spaces, but a lot of kids sometimes it's just, especially for white kids, it's the semblance of, you know, privilege and wealth and resources that keeps you there. And if you don't have a school that's willing to give you that and adjust for that, it can just be displacing a movie, something you view as a problem. So what do you see as a solution for, because you talked about, you know, staying in school to Harlem, other you do go to charter school, how, what is the solution do you see as for, like, black parents? Like, what, you know, I know you're like 20 or 22, whatever, but like, what, what would you suggest for black parents that are raising, you know, a lesson and, you know, for their children, how to educate them fully? Yeah. Now, I hear you, there's trade-offs in everything that you end up doing your own life and and like, the trade-off in trying to find the best space for your student is like, I'm for like, a black kids is hard to look at. I'm like, you know, like, I did end up going to charter school, but it wasn't a Harlem. And I would say, like, there was a lot of things that happened at my charter school. It was a great school better than a lot of other schools in my community, but it was, there was a lot of trade-offs that I might not want to put my kid in the future, put in the future. I think what it is is, and that's what I'm hoping to do, expand parent families, outlook on how they develop their students on what our school system is supposed to do. Don't want to put the burden on families. However, you like, you know, the family should have the power and being able to dictate where they place their kids, excuse me. And in that vein, like, people should be able to communicate clearly what this school is going to be able to do for their kid. Yeah, school did already, right? But in that capacity, being able to show that within the results, and I think it should be a lot more, um, things should be a lot more tangible as opposed to being arbitrary in the capacity that schools like, for example, I don't, I don't even want to bash a school. What we really are trying, and what I'm hoping to do is expand the outlets that we do have for students, um, because the K through 12 system is there. Now, that is there. However, in what capacity are we actually developing black men and what capacity are we actually developing black black women and what capacity are we actually developing Latino men and what capacity are we actually developing Latino women and what capacity are these resources that we're providing actually centered around the development of these people from these given cultures. What's so problematic is that our systems, the systems that are in place don't do that now. So when you're talking, so when you look at now programs like Harlem, sure there's some, for example, um, or like upward bound or like these third, more or less of these third party academic programs, what why can you fund them is because there's a lot more interpersonal support in the development of students. Um, there's a, there's a, there's a focus towards their culture and their background. And that's what parents and families should act for immediately. It shouldn't be like, oh, um, this is a good school. You have a lot of resources. You should be able to help my student. It's how are you going to be able to help mold or nourish this black boy? How are you going to be able to mold and nourish this Asian women? How are you going to be able to mold and nourish this white, this white boy, this whatever, whatever you're actually looking for is what you should be approaching. And I feel like one thing in particular, I think a lot about is the fact that um, these schools and you know that um, don't, don't, they can't enter that. That's what people look for these third party options. I think a lot about um, a lot of like, in spaces like Cornell, when you're looking at a lot of like powerful, strong, like, I mean, strong students, um, strong, I want to say, and I mean, want to say it's the truth. Like black women who've found outlets outside of their school to excel. Like, I mean, that's what you need because it is like, I want to develop as, I want to develop, I want to develop as a woman. I want to develop as a, as a black person. So I'm going to look for resources within my community to be able to excel. And you often don't find that in schools. You end up, you end up make, you end up learning about women or different people who create affinity groups to be able to support one another. You hear about people who find outlets outside of again, they're K through 12 school, public or private for them to be able to get the research that they need. And that empowers them to eventually be in these spaces that even then, they're still have that same driving to NASA to be able to get what they want and need. I just bring in a full circle. I believe that there is a need for these schools to be able to guide and give insight directly towards one's culture, directly towards one's background, parents and teachers, parents and teachers, teachers as well, should be able to outline what they are looking for in their students. Like what they're looking to develop within their students and say and outline within the curriculum. Like, and it is a lot, it's not, it's a lot easier, something done, but should be able to outline how this given project or this given topic of the day or this given objective of goal or age, you know, how it is, not only what you're learning, but how it's going to support that student at that time. If it's not going to do that, man, it isn't as effective as it could be or should be. And again, that's a lies your set and I think that's kind of what I'm hoping to kind of work on, making something consistent and reproducible not only in like, underprivileged mind communities, but all over. Because I think that's really what I'm hoping. That's what I'm really hoping to kind of change the different outlets and opportunities that are available to students in the way that, again, teachers and parents look at these opportunities. I hope that answers your question. I know that kind of, I feel like every time I tell my education, I end up hopping all over the places, there's so many things that come to mind and I want to just start talking about different theories and things like that. Absolutely. And I think that you have such a thorough knowledge of it. It's evident to me. So I like the fact that you have talked about this sort of multi-pronged approach, but one thing that really stuck with me is doing something that works for the child. And I think that that's very, you know, and making sure that this standardizing, because that's really what public school education does a lot of, doesn't kill the personal growth that needs to happen in the life of the child for them on their educational route and journey. So I think that that's, that's really important. You talked about Cornell already. So let's move to Cornell. I read a stat recently and I presented it at a workshop. I did on Saturday talking about how I said 60% at a time. It's a little bit higher. It's about, or at least as of 2013, 2015, something like that. I believe 69% of Black men ended up that come to Cornell, ended up actually graduating. And it's, it stands in stark contrast. I believe to Black women and just a lot of other populations in particular. You're, you don't work swag. And then your brother in alpha, the alpha chapter, your brother, the alpha chapter of alpha alpha attorney incorporated. So these are all sort of Black fraternal, black male brotherhood, you know, hubs on campus. I want you to talk a little bit about just, and you can also talk about BSU work as well. But I noted this because it was catered to a specific group of people. And I feel like I talked about this at the workshop. We talked about just feeling like there were voids or gaps in what in Black male leadership. What was Black the Black leadership from a man? What does that look like on, you know, our campus? And then, you know, just feeling that gap and creating that space for young Black men that matriculate into Cornell. What work have you done? And what work do you believe needs to be done at Cornell to better facilitate, you know, Black young men that come in at 1817, 19, whatever, succeeding, thriving and successfully graduating from Cornell? Yeah, I would say, and you noted it, and it starts, I feel like, from my experience, it did start with BSU, immersing myself in a community in which other Black people wouldn't support me. And I was in the, I was on the executive board as a freshman rep. And so I had a lot of my pro-classmen to just be able to kind of guide and give me support and insight about what to do while I was in this predominant white institution with so many opportunities, so many resources, and it's very easy to feel that imposter syndrome being somebody that did not initially know of all of the things that were available here. It felt like I just didn't or could not belong here as a result. And that eventually gave me towards alpha, not really, not immediately. There was a various other organizations I came in between that I was a part of, like you know, the scholars working ambitiously to graduate swag, which is primarily focused on helping Black men graduate, and even in that organization, it's a mentor meant, it's a mentorship base, it's mentorship focused because being able to provide insight, just about, just so people don't make the same mistakes that you potentially did, people in the past may have made. It makes all the difference from knowing what classes to take to know what class and not to take to know and who to add to research to know who not to add to resources. It's different things like that. That really made, I feel like my trajectory through these different spaces. I feel like I'm very small, and I'm ultimately after I'm pledging and joining the Almighty Alpha Chapter Alphaio Veterinary Cooperative for the 2019, that really changed my entire outlook of just how I could serve and support people on this campus, because I was given an influx of insight over a century of insight about how Black men conducted themselves at Cornell, and what allowed for them to excel. It was really funny, it's not too long, I was speaking, and we used that time being together, and I actually brought up that know when I was speaking to this device president, I was in his office, and he had a hundred top Cornellians at all time, and I was looking through the book, and there's no Black people in that book. The first Black person I eventually did, it was in 1944, it was a brother of the chapter, and he works for the Reagan administration, but what was most notable in that was even the insight that I was able to get within my chapter from the fraternity is that he was given such a guide into support from other people with it in Cornell before him, that's what made it so that he's now in the top 100, or recognized the top 100 Cornellians, so I feel like one thing that kind of just led me to one and being a leader was wanting to give insight to other Black men, other Black people, other Black students, anybody, honestly, people reach out to me all the time, kind of from being an engage ambassador as well for the Office of Engagement Initiatives, or not, I own an ambassador, that made it so that I was able to give people direct insight on like leadership development, and was actually given a lot of different resources about the difference between helping fixing and serving, how like to actively engage with certain community partners so that you're not necessarily just doing it for a moment, but you're actually a part of that community, you're creating the change that you want to see, but that they want to see, because you know, it isn't always about what you want, and I felt like that's something that I really immersed myself into being here at Cornell, I'll be lying to say that it was like easy, and I say that early just because there isn't a lot of people like, I mean, we was kind of talking about you when you're thinking about just like Black men graduation, there's a lot of people kind of take over time, or the initiative to learn to support other people within their community, because a lot of people here at Cornell, but particularly, I would say Black men are focused on like, I got to take it on my back and I got to do well, I'm not focused on anybody else who ain't helping me, and if they ain't helping me, and you will come to realize Cornell in general, it's not trying to help no Black male, if I'm being 100, they're not really focused on that we're here, and they're happy to have us here, it keeps the quotas up, it keeps that money flowing in, but there's not a lot of outlets to support people, men of color, so they've, men of color, have created their own outlets from Victor Younger, he's a brother, 5-bit of Sigma, he created a space for Black men to come together swag, which has been predominantly managing rent by a lot of alphas, but there's a lot of other Black male students who have taken on that initiative, a Benara comes to mind, who's taken on that initiative to just be able to give the insight that they had to other students, and again, that's a lot easier said than done when you're coming into a space that isn't supposed to be for you, and in January speaking, no one is really pushing you to take the initiative to conquer these spaces, so I felt like, again, just even going back to my chapter, I was placed in such a unique situation in which again, I had an influx of information, it's like from so many different generations about how to excel at Cornell, and that pushed me to want to take on different leadership positions. I mean, I was already in those leadership positions before becoming an alpha, but it only allowed for I felt like for that, for the brand of alpha, but also for the brand of different organizations, I was a part of to grow, and the insight and the exposure to like, excelling for a lot more people to see that, and I definitely, it definitely changed my trajectory. I mean, here at Cornell, I want to change the way that I engage with different students, because again, everybody that I looked at, I was just like, how could I help? And then it was like, nah, I don't want to help, how can I serve you? How can I, like, quite literally, like, how can I serve you? How can I be of any assistance in any capacity? Like, there's some things I quite literally won't be able to do, so I'll give you to force someone that I know who can do it, and I felt like I found that being my experience, a lot, finding, finding support from a lot of, and I went particularly black women, like, undoubtedly black women being able to say, I don't know this, but I know for sure that she knows this, that she'll be able to help, and be willing to help you, and it's not, and it is, I would say, primary black women, but also a lot of other black men, a lot of just people of color in general, a lot of resources that are, that are small, but that aren't allocated to support and diversity initiatives, diversity inclusion, thinking about spaces like why they're thinking about programs like P3, thinking about even EOP and HOP cohort, going back to them and saying, hey, like, being able to tell students like you're a part of EOP and HOP, they are resources you are able to access, you're not just a part of this program, just to be a part of this program, so I think that just even bringing in, again, full circle, what black men in particular, there is a huge focus on just doing well and getting out of here, like, that you don't want to be here for any longer than you need to be, and it's not always four years for everyone, it doesn't need to be four years from everyone, I mean, the architecture is going on for itself, it's five years, you know, so people are so quick to be like, I need to do this in an X-ray amount of time, it's not that, it's, I mean, it's about nurturing and growing in this space, while also taking advantage of what you do have available you, and, I mean, that's what I try to do, and that's why I try to push other men around me to do it, and everyone, not everyone, and I say, if the student through, and everyone needs to be, or hold a position to do that, not everyone needs to be affiliated with a given organization, it needs to be an alpha, it needs to be a part of BSU, or a part of swag, to kind of conquer and take all the initiatives and the opportunities and the resources that are available here, but it makes it, it puts you in those spaces to work to give it to others, and that's kind of what I've been in from, like, you know, to being a freshman, I've been BSU, and then I was, there's a lot of, I spent a lot of time with swag, and then swag is now revitalizing itself, my brother's a chapter, I think, I know the people as well, but many other people as well, but from swag to being a engaged ambassador for the Office of Engagement initiatives, to work on what's social for our time, being able to create a fellowship program with them, that's focused on, like, high school, and helping high school students go to college, I'm changing their insight, and like, even that social program, I really want to highlight that, like, you know, people who were like, who said, "I can't go to an Ivy League, who go to Cornell now?" You know, who in high school, like, I would, there's no way I'd be able to go to an Ivy League, their top schools were schools that they were also looking for that would be cheaper just because they were public schools, and I was like, "Yo, you don't know that Cornell got that money, they'll be able to make it happen for you if you show that you want to be here, and now I get to walk by and see them on campus." And I like that, I feel like it's probably one of the greatest things I was able to do here at Cornell, but even from there, like, again, just different organizations, things I was able to be affiliated with, and then I was like, "I'm going to take advantage of it, like, Cornell becoming a Cornell tradition fellow, so we ain't able to get additional funding for the service initiatives and the work that I was on on campus." It made it so that now that I'm looking back in these last few weeks, really like doing, like, a tour, like, a lap of, like, I'm not going to lie, I like to express my gratitude, you've heard a lot, I like to share my appreciation for the things that, because you wouldn't be here without people be capping, saying they did it by themselves, it's just not true, so I'm just really going around expressing my thank you, thank you to these different people and people and, like, organizations that did change my life. I think about Stef a lot, she's a part of Wadi, who, like, first told me and told to me about imposter syndrome, and, like, just was, like, a real resource, you know? Like, I'm not just the, I'm not just a part of this organization, if you need to email me, call me, like, I will leave it, and I've had that with her at times, on which, when the pandemic hit, and I was like, yo, I don't know, who to talk to right now. She was somebody that I was able to talk to, and I'm, I just think about different things like that that really made it so that my, my quantum experience, I made it so that, you know, people could see me as a leader, but it really was, how can I help those around me? How can I serve those around me? Thank you. Too often, you know, we do tell those stories to ourselves, those lies, oh, I got here about myself, but you, you mentioned so many people that supported you along the journey, and I think of that, that shows a lot of humility. I love that, and I can, I can say the same in my story, especially at Cornell, I won't get into it, but there are so many people that think from my journey here. Listen, I want to ask you now, and, and, and by the way, shout out to Bernard and all the people that you talked about who are, who did help, you know, help continue and try to cultivate those spaces for black men on campus in particular, and it's a conversation that needs to continue to be had. So I'm glad that we're having part of it here. Listen, I'm going to just be honest with you on having a black man or, you know, talk about education so passionately is, is so refreshing, especially talking about younger kids, children, et cetera, like that is very refreshing. I, I can name a plethora of black women in my life, but, you know, the, the black men role models are very, you know, it's a very small group, but those that I do have almost all of those black men are educators. So, you know, I think my, my pastor, he was an educator for 25 years. I'm thinking about my, both of my mom's older brothers, one's a ROTC instructor now. He's retired from the military, and then my older uncle, he's been principal superintendent, et cetera, et cetera. So, all of them, and then my, even my granddad, he was a teacher in like the vocational sense, but he was, you know, a musician and trained a bunch of other little, you know, younger, younger musicians are mentors. So all of the black men, I feel like, I've been very impactful to call some mentorship or role in some way. So it's, it's refreshing. Then to hear you talk about going to education because we definitely need black men in education. Now, what does that though? And this is sort of my last question, I guess, really. It's just like, what does that look like for you in your future? I would say, and I hear that. Like, to like, because I know I can only give love with it answers, and I don't know exactly what's in store for me next, but I do have a vision that I have in mind that I hope to be able to bring it to fruition. And it comes with like expanding the way that we look at education, the opportunities that we have. I think I'm about right now bringing me a charger clutch. I always need that. I definitely need that. But it's really in the vein of, like, just changing the way that we take a look at, taking a change, taking a change, or changing the way we take a look at our education system. So I'm really hoping to kind of create programs and initiatives that are similar to ones that I've existed in the past. I don't want to name them because I might get copyrighted 10 years from now. They've become, I don't know, they might soon be 10 years from now. If I become really successful, I don't know. But like, nah, let me stop. I think the program's like Heart of Truders on, for example, Managing like created by Jeffrey Canada, he had a he has a bunch of like different articles and like, like movies about it. But one thing that comes to mind, he wears like super, he's like, it's like Superman don't come to the hood. And like, why would he, you know, because why would he? Because we need to actually come back to our spaces and our communities. And that's something that I've really been thinking a lot about. Something I think a lot about now, just because I'm hoping to be able to go into, I'm hoping to be able to go back to my community and create like an education program unlike the ones that we've seen in the past. Something like Harlem Truders on which I'm entering spaces and empowering other people who want to support people. And their personal passions. Harlem Truders on is extremely unique because it was community center community focused. And it made it so that people who wanted these different opportunities were able to find it through the mentorship of people within their community, not from people outside of it. So I'm really hoping to expand our education initiatives so that we're developing students for what they're passionate about, but they're seeing that development come from people within their community. So it's it can't like again, it can't be done alone. I think that what I have in mind is and it's a series of different ideas, but it goes back to just changing how we develop our students, not only focusing on the cognitive school of thought, making it so that the behavioral school of thought, the humanistic school of thought, has just as much value in our curriculum, that you're not grading students on what they're able to say at a given point of time or memorized by a given point of time, but how much they grow over a period of time. And I mean, I'm not going to lie to you that even be in a government measure here at Cornell, like I'm hoping for this to be like something that we implement into our public education system. So it's going to take a long time for that to happen, I'm beyond this. That's beyond that is the true vision. I'm hoping the entry spaces and really change how we look at our education system because people we can work within the systems that we already do have. Yes, however objective we speak in everyone, not feeling we talk to with let it be known that that is the problem and change is why we change has been made. And if you think you're being you are and we're not beaten yet, you know, like we're not defeated, like we can't change a lot of things within our education system. So that's what I'm really looking to open to do. I really, in that, I'll come from an even a conversation that I recently happened. It's going to come and start with working with communities that don't already have it. I don't want to create a will or create a program in a in a school that could give me all the resources and just say, hey, hey, thank you for this this third probably program we're now focused on diversity and inclusion. Now it's not that it's definitely not that it's really it's really creating practical change by going into schools in which you're seeing students who don't believe they can excel. And make it then believe that they can excel. And that might mean change in our education system. Like I definitely am leaning a lot more towards that but like who knows? I think with life I learned a lot more with the experiences and hopefully some more degree. I mean, I hope, well, definitely with some more degrees. I'll definitely be able to like what I need to get this Cornell degree first. Got a few more weeks. But like that is definitely the goal. The goal is to really be able to answer these spaces and change the way that we look at education. And I think with that, then we'll see different programs and initiatives come about. But that's really what my passion is when it comes to education. I hope that like answers your question. Really does. I think that I think that your home will be glad to have you and I think that they definitely need you. And it's it's a dilemma that a lot of black kids and coming up and then also making it quote-unquote out you have is what is going to be my relationship to home. And I think that you chose in a decision that a lot of black young people are age have to consider. It's not always easy, you know, home, you know, people's conception of home maybe I need to go back to, you know, my mom and dad, but a lot of people may not have that sense of home. But at least, you know, some of us are more fortunate to be able to say, all right, I can go home and also feel supported by people that I know love me, which is even and that is a privilege. So I'm grateful for that. And even if you aren't able to do that, make sure that that you in some way contribute back into the lives of people that look like you there coming back, that are coming through some of the same hardships. And I feel like challenges that you may have faced as well. I think that's really important to and just pour it into other people's lives is important to listen, listen, listen, any final thoughts you want to have before we close this out, man, give the benefit. I would just say, I mean, I want to thank you for letting me chat. I'll be chatting, but like it really is. It comes from, all right, and I am going to do that. I know you're going to know. Listen, I want to hear you. And the reason I'm not going to start, I didn't stop you until just now, but I didn't stop because I don't want you to make any excuses. I think for me, hearing my, hearing my brothers talk is something that I don't get to do a lot, believe it or not. I think that it's just, I don't, it's something I just don't get to do a lot. And I think that I like hearing you think through what you're going to do and who you are and where you come from and how you persevere past it, the ways in which we have matured and had to reconsider some things and be like all of those things. That takes a level of vulnerability and a level of, you know, I feel like emotional vulnerability. You only realize it that black men are always able to do. So nevertheless, I love hearing you chat. Continue. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you isn't on that. That's why I just wanted to like generally just thank you for having me. Thank you for like the work that you're doing. I'm having a lot. We're going to look back now. I don't know how many years from now. I'm counting on it. It's going to be listening to the amount of my hands, though, where, where, where you're, where you're doing the thing, you know, the rest of the world that the entire world is able to kind of see that you've really amplified our voices because you know, you hit it on the head. I'm black men, if we just being transparent, are open and like kind of just talking about these things where like we know that earlier on, you got your focus. You want to stay focused on what you've got to do. And that makes us so that a lot of times when I able to have these conversations, but these conversations is type of insight. I feel like from from from from you really, like these type of spaces that you're creating is going to do wonders. It's going to do wonders for the black, for the black experience. And I really just thank you for letting me chat. Like I like you said, I really want to let me talk about like just having the chance to kind of share my story because I feel like everybody's story is unique and I'm really hoping that in the morning when I'm able to create change for people who do resonate with my experience because I've and then just even bringing it back to like wow, like when I wrote when I applied for college, I was really saying like I want to be able to talk about the forgotten. People who don't aren't able to excuse me, who aren't able to share their stories or you can get to a place in which their stories are being recognized beyond what may stream mainstream media and the rest of the world thinks of them. So I mean, I think you keep doing your thing, bro. We're going to be able to chat whenever we have a few more weeks until we graduate. So there's definitely enjoy that. I don't really have. I can talk to have us. So I mean, again, I just wanted to say thank you. If I didn't, I don't want I didn't come in here with the intention of showing you people out, but like, yeah, please, please call the people I have in mind. I definitely has like shown me a lot of love from again, I've got to always show love to my mom, my dad. From seeing my uncle, Fu's honey, that's my twin. I love him. I love, I love you. Like if you in, it's like I love him. He's like again, it's just a vein of like that support from my twin. I have always had that brotherly support. He's the better reflection than we regardless of what people think. I say that undoubtedly. So like, I just want to thank again, those teachers and the inspiration that I have helped me got got here. I definitely see. I definitely appreciate y'all. I did not get here alone, but we won't keep you moving so I can build that legacy, or build the tradition, or whatever that y'all let y'all have set forth. I'm really, and then also Shalaam Ali, you know, in the earlier, and this is one day I guess I do want to kind of pose out on people don't have the privilege of being able to go back to home, whether their mom and their home being able to go back to some community, calling that home for various different reasons. You know, it is a privilege. And I'm hoping again, with our education system, for people to be open to developing and nurturing themselves within the communities that are meant to educate people. That I feel like is ultimately when we look at a lot of people who do it. So again, myself, I feel like even you know that we do have somebody where people we're able to go back and get like you supporting your of my family. And our schools should be that as well. When you spend so much time with somebody like it should be that. So that's when I'm really hoping to do create more families throughout the world in which people are willing to go back and say, you help me get to where I'm at. Let me help you or help whatever vision that you have. And then even in that capacity, I mean, how do you hear me say this one of the time? I'm hoping then become served because once you look into a space and you're able to be like, I want to do something different. You actually immerse yourself into that community. You're now equal to them for real for real. You're always equal to everybody equal. You'd be thinking otherwise you're equal. You know, so once you're in a space in what you're like, I know what you need. You may need. And I came in within a vision or an intention of being able to provide what I have to help you now serving. And that's what you're going to do. So that's what I'm really hoping to do really for the to the rules for most, you know? So that's that's that's that's really that kind of my goal. And again, I just want to thank you again. Shout out foods. I got to shout them out again. Shout out the brothers of the chapter who you know who are always able to always give me when I need them. Shout out to people with swag and be as you those people who really push me into these leadership roles. I want to shout out all the black women who supported me from Ashley to Latoya to Toyota C to Carly to Jada to Trinity. And this goes on and on because they definitely changed my although to my perspective on a lot of different things. Like even like a shout out I'm not even going to shout out these women yet because they're going to show them show you what they can do. I miss black and gold but definitely I want to shout out our black our black and gold women as well who show everybody the excellence in the view of black women in record now. I don't want to give I don't want to get anything that I shouldn't be seeing yet. But like I just I got to say all of these things because again, and this is just a reality for me. I got to show love to the people on me gay because I went out. I did not get in by myself. And people people I feel they sometimes open to get that. So I just want to denote that. Yeah, yeah. Some of those people you name they change my outlook and perspective as well. So I love that you give Michelle and I tell you just what's on. How can we see in contact with you? I'm not a social media person. So if you try to find me on the social media, you might find me but I might not find you back. No disrespect. And that's just because I don't use social media like for real for real. But I would say follow me on like LinkedIn like on a real tip. But I do be on LinkedIn. I know it's kind of weird. I don't post on like I don't post on social media record to respect. Find me I would say find me for life like for real. And I say that in the capacity of I'll always be around. I'll always create spaces in which you can't connect with me for my email. My email is lb672.cornell.edu. My other email my other email is Los on by the local L-A-S-S-K-N-B-A-G-A-Y-O-K-O-A-G-M-L.com. I don't even like why you give me an email. I've been reading my emails. My inbox is at zero. And all my emails. So I say again just bringing the full circle. I don't I'm not a social media person. So if you do try to follow me, I may not be able to get back to you on that capacity. Really not trying to be high to what I have. Whatever I'm not a social media person. Not my not my space. So like I'm pleased and people do reach out to me by email over time. Three something to be a social media I'll try to respond. I will respond. I will respond. I just not how I like to go about things. So just again please feel free to reach out to me in any capacity. Social media is an option. My emails are available. Find me like again I'll be around. So if you do see me for free to stop me is acting whatever. I'm gonna talk to me. I love chat. And as you can hear it sees how. Yeah. You know what so funny I always have to pull net IDs out of people when I have them. So I love that you just laid it out. I don't think anybody's ever just laid out the email. Because you know it's like because people I mean this is a lot and I know not to them but social media is the future. I should be on social media. But that's just not my realm. It's just not I'm just not a social media person I guess I don't know. I respect it. Now I respect it. Yeah I guess my ad is don't assault James. I'm not gonna hide it. That's right. I'm not trying to hide myself. Like y'all follow me on social media. Like I just don't mean there to be honest like that's just not where I'm at. Now you had me looking at my email mine is not a zero. So please if you email me it's a 50 feet chat. It's like no. I'm at 638 emails. I open. Don't judge me. I got I got four right now and I'm about to click through the wall. You'll click all right. That right. Listen, y'all. Yeah you can't try to keep my inbox empty all the times. Oh my gosh. I love it. Listen. We've had Lesan. Thank you so much Lesan for coming today. Listen y'all to see what more new upcoming episodes of Black Voice on the Hill and for other Cornell and Ithaca news be sure to follow us at Black Voices on the Hill on Instagram, Twitter as well be sure to follow WBBRF and news. Visit us at wvbr.com/BlackVoicesubscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, Alleycasts, Alleycasts, alleycasts, platforms. Listen you can tell the likes of I want to hear Black Voice on the Hill. Listen to me right here on WBBR 92.5 every Friday at 2 p.m. and episode release is the following Tuesday at 11 a.m. We'll see you next week. Shout out to my executive producers Mike Syte, Grace Fairchild Peace Outfit.