(upbeat music)
- Hi everybody and welcome to another episode
of Recycle Content, a podcast of the Association
of Plastic Recyclers, an international nonprofit
and the only North American organization
focused exclusively on improving recycling for plastics.
I'm Cara Petruro and I'll be your host today.
Launched in celebration of the 30th anniversary
of the APR Design Guide for Plastics Recyclability,
the APR Recycling Leadership Awards recognize
package designers, manufacturers, researchers or innovators
who are improving recycling for plastics.
Winners were announced during the Plastics Recycling Conference
earlier this year with award categories
that focus on unique contributions
moving plastics recycling forward.
We've had our other winners on a series of podcasts
and today we are talking with June Wang
with Colgate Paul Malove who is the winner
of the Design Innovation Award.
Focused on oral care, personal care, home care
and pet nutrition, Colgate Paul Malove
is an international company selling their products
in more than 200 countries and territories
under multiple brands.
They are recognized for leadership and innovation
in promoting sustainability and community well-being
including achievements in decreasing plastic waste
and promoting recyclability which is of course
what we're talking about today.
Colgate Paul Malove spearheaded a paradigm shift
in package design.
Historically tubes were a non-recyclable packaging format
made with mixed materials.
The prevalence of aluminum foil as a barrier layer
was particularly problematic for the recycling process.
Dr. June Wang led groundbreaking innovation
to design and manufacture a mono material toothpaste tube.
Thanks to Dr. Wang's leadership,
the company received a PR design recognition in 2019
and subsequently shared its intellectual property publicly.
Thereby helping to rapidly shift an entire product category
to packaging that can be captured
in the existing HDPE recycling stream.
June currently works as a director
in packaging innovation global packaging group
at Colgate Paul Malove Company.
He has a PhD in polymer chemistry
and over 30 years experience in polymers.
Between 2014 and 2020, he led the development
of the award-winning first of its kind recyclable plastic tube
which we'll be talking about today.
And together with ACS Green Chemistry Institute
founded Natural Polymers Consortium in August 2024
and is assuming its co-chair role.
In November 2024,
Wang co-initiated ACS Natural Polymers Convergent
Chemistry Community or CCC with five ACS divisions.
Both organizations are formed to promote
an alternative solution to curb plastic pollution
from underexplored areas of natural polymers.
Lots to take in there about Colgate Paul Malove
as well as Dr. June Wang.
So welcome and thanks for joining us today.
- Thanks for having me, Keras.
- So as we often talk about smart, robust public policies
are essential to reducing plastic waste
and improving recycling.
Many companies including Colgate Paul Malove
also have publicly stated sustainability commitments.
What other motives are driving innovation
in recyclable packaging design for the personal care sector?
- Our commitments on sustainability are guided by a strategy
centered on the purpose of re-imagining a healthier future
for all people, their pets and our plant.
We have three core ambitions.
One, number one is driving social impact.
For example, our flagship global auto-health education
program, Colgate Bright Smile and Bright Future
has reached billions of children
and their families worldwide.
Number two, to helping millions of homes,
empowering people to develop healthier habits
by choosing sustainable products
that improve their lives and homes.
Number three is to preserving our environment.
So our innovation in recyclable packaging design
is one effort to help us achieving our ambitions.
So therefore, we develop and share the technology
for this first of its kind recyclable toothpaste tube,
which is now accessible in over 70 countries.
So meanwhile, our innovation is governed
by a people-centric model.
This means every steps we take from improving product formulas
to design sustainable packaging
and launching community programs
is measured by its ability to deliver
a positive impact on health and well-being.
As a CBG leader, we are fundamentally driven
by the consumers' clear demand for products
that align with their values
for both personal health and environmental sustainability.
- This tube fits right in, of course.
It was a long journey from the starting point
of wanting to create a recyclable tube.
So walk us through that journey
and the barriers you've had to overcome along the way.
- Yeah, this is really a long journey
and they were still on it.
So it all started at the end of 2013.
So at that time, we were facing the challenge
that as a major consumer products company
and a global leader in oral care,
our number one packaging, which is tube,
does not have a good end-of-life solution.
So the reason that the tube is designed this way
is because it need to deliver multiple functions
simultaneously, such as its mechanical protection
to the products, which is a toothpaste,
and the barrier to protect that the favor within the tube
and also the convenience for the consumer
to squeeze and dispense toothpaste.
So all this functionality required different material
to be incorporated into the structure.
And most of all, it's like we have the aluminum foil
you mentioned earlier as a barrier,
so which definitely prevent its recyclability.
So therefore, at that year, 2013,
we were really facing a challenge,
how we can make our number one packaging recyclable.
So I think at that time, we give really deep thought
whether we want to recycle the tube in a special way
or we want to redesign the whole tube
to let it go into the existing recyclable stream,
which is of course, at that time, PET and the HDPE.
And actually we tried both.
And the HDPE is the winning technology.
We also have a PET technology.
So but today we will focus on this HDPE version
of the recyclable tube.
And I think at that time, a big help,
we really appreciate that the APR at that time
have this design guide and the testing protocol
for us to really have some guidance to design
and to test against.
So we're really starting from that year, 2013,
we started to attend the APR conference three times a year
to learn what the APR has already published
and is being developed.
We want to work together with APR
to see how we can work together to design a non-recyclable format,
turn it into a recyclable format.
And therefore, we also need to understand
a lot of this recycling stream, how
these recycling processes are working,
and to understand what's the pain point of each step
if we have some mixed material that
causes non-recyclable at the Y.
And therefore, we can design against it and to eliminate it.
So there's a lot of learning that we learned from the APR design
guide and also the testing protocol.
We did test use at that time the testing protocol
and also the improved version of the testing protocol
to test multiple times to see, yes,
because this lab tester will help us to get the feedback
at a small scale instead of really
run to the production logical and go
to do it at the reclamers facility.
That will be too slow and too costly.
And so when we designed this recyclable tube,
it went through five different phases.
As you remember, the phase one, the tube coming is ugly.
Nobody used the HTTP to blow a fuel to make the tube.
So our first tube has an orange peel.
The surface is very rough.
But the good thing is we said, yes, we see the feasibility.
You can use a material HTTP, which people do not necessarily
use it a lot for film, for flexible packaging.
And after we did this phase one trial,
we really gained the confidence that it's durable.
So therefore, the phase two is mainly improved version.
We first focused on how to make the surface smooth
and how to really bring that film in a smooth way.
And by working with our film supplier at that time,
we did achieve that.
Because each phase takes a year to back and forth
to change the structure, change the formulation,
and to make it work.
So that's basically phase two.
Phase two is to make the surface smooth.
And after that, we noticed that because when
we designed this tube layer structure in an asymmetrical way,
that caused the laminate itself not flat.
This will affect our tube making process.
It's not necessarily the material itself.
It's more related to the processing and the functionality.
And if we do not have a flat laminate,
we cannot make a very round-shaped tube.
So that will affect our tube feeding process.
Because if you have over-shaped tube,
the nozzle is difficult to stick into the tube to fill it.
You have to make it work on each every process.
Because we want to retrofit this new laminate
onto the existing machines.
We do not want to incorporate too much capital investment
on the machine side.
So that's basically phase three is
we change the structure layer structure
to make this laminate flat.
And by incorporating different grades of HDP into it
and put them into the different layer
to make it really flat.
Phase four is more like optimization.
So we want to make sure that with this new structure,
it can still be made on the existing film blowing process
as well as the lamination process.
And then we can do it in our following processes,
including like we slid the tube into the narrow web.
We printed on them.
We put them on the tube making machine.
And they should be run at the same speed
as our current web.
And our machine actually, tube making machine,
is very well tuned for the existing laminate.
So we can produce the tubes as fast as 600 tubes per minute.
So this is a very challenge.
It's more like engineering challenge.
It's not as a material challenge.
If you can run it on that faster speed machine.
And so a lot of you can imagine a lot of optimization
work being done.
So that's on the phase four.
The phase five is more scale up.
We want to make sure we can scale up and produce that
in hours and even days.
And then we turn that into months production.
Make sure, yes, they can be done.
And meanwhile, when we finish phase four,
we also make some tubes and then do the APR recyclability
because critical guidance test.
And that's, I think, 2019.
We got the recognition from the APR on this tube.
So basically that proved that by redesigning our structure
and make it compatible with HDP recycling stream,
it can at least technically be called technical recyclable.
And it will not affect the recycling processes.
Phase five was done on 2020.
So then we started to move to the commercialization.
And we first commercialized in our Thomas May brand.
And then we gradually launched it in other divisions,
like in Europe, Asia.
So I can proudly say by now, our goal is by 2025,
we would convert all our tubes to this recyclable structure.
Right now, we've achieved over 95% of the tubes
had already been converted into this recyclable tube.
And meanwhile, you Kerry mentioned that we share this technology
and to encourage any tube users,
tube producers to take this technology
to come up with their version of recyclable tube.
I say we're still on the journey
because the technical recyclable is not enough.
So we still need to achieve the practical recyclable.
So that's what we are doing right now.
And during this journey, there are some challenges.
I think I can think of is to make this modern material
achieved all functions and all functions
that the multiple material can deliver.
And also retrofit this new limited to the existing process
and achieve the cost neutral.
Those are the very challenging work.
And we're glad to say that up to now, we are almost there.
And we have all the technology and also optimization
on the processes and to achieve that
and also commercialize them globally already.
Such a great story of this collaborative multi-phase effort
that took multiple years to come to fruition.
And as you mentioned, Colgate did share this innovation
with the rest of the industry
because you didn't want to just see your tubes recyclable.
You wanted everyone else to have recyclable tubes as well,
which is very commendable,
which is something we cite often
because a lot of companies will develop some great innovations,
but they keep them proprietary.
So it was really great to see that Colgate
was willing to share their innovation
for the betterment of the industry as a whole.
What is needed to achieve
that widespread adoption of recyclable design?
Yeah, I think I'd like to give some credit to APR for sure
because when we first came up with this technology
and we brought this to APR,
one term we heard from APR is "look like a product."
It's more like you do yours like make it recyclable,
but if other people do not use this technology,
but your tubes still look like the same,
and in this mirth or the sorting facility,
people cannot tell which one is recyclable
and which one is not.
So therefore, that gives us really
bring us to think about this deeply.
So we cannot just make our tubes recyclable,
and there is no benefit
to keep this only technology secret to ourselves.
So this technology actually will really bring this benefit
to the whole society,
only if everybody converted to this similar structure
and then this whole format of the packaging
can be recyclable or can be really practically recycled there.
So therefore, Koget's decision was,
"Yes, in order to really make the change to the world,
to bring this sustainability benefit to the society,
we cannot keep this technology secret."
So we need to share this with the public
and as well as gain the common momentum to work together.
So this is not...
First of all, plastic is not one company's issue.
It's an issue of this whole value chain.
And also to find a solution definitely,
it's not a single company can provide the whole solution.
Collaboration is the key,
and also we need to really get everybody to work together.
And also under some guidance that APR can provide can work together.
So to change the world is not an easy thing to say.
When you work on it,
you have to build up the common effort to work together.
Change is definitely not easy,
and that's something that we're working on every day at APR
with member companies like Colgate.
So it's been great working with you on this project.
Any tips for other brands or packaging suppliers
looking to make the case for design changes within their company?
Yeah, I think it's not necessarily...
Tips is more like my feeling when I went through this journey.
So I have three points I would like to mention.
The first is we need to be bold to start.
Because at the very beginning,
when we think about our existing tube,
which has the aluminum in it,
we call it ABL, Aluminum Barrier Laminate.
The idea was that we need everything.
We need all the material to provide the functions.
There was no way to eliminate any of them.
So that's the original thoughts.
And so therefore, at the very beginning,
we have a thought maybe it's not possible.
So that's why we, at the very beginning,
we just say let's give it a try.
That's why when we think about the HDPE industry,
as I mentioned, industry did not use the HDPE
as a common material for film, for flexible packaging.
And also, aluminum is a very good barrier.
So did we, at the very beginning,
have a very good solution?
I would say we did not.
We just say let's give it a try.
Let's be brave enough to start.
So we can think critically and act decisively,
but we need to start.
We cannot just think too much
and which prevents us from getting started.
So that's the number one, learning.
And the second is the collaboration.
I keep saying this thing, we need to collaborate.
It's not just one company trying to push technology out
and hope everybody will accept it.
And first of all, there's no such thing
that a company can develop uniquely one technology
that only relies on its own resources.
And collaboration is more important,
especially in this sustainability and environmental area.
And we need association like APR
who can provide the guidance
and who already gather together the recyclers
and the value chain and reach certain concepts
so we can work on it.
So for example, the design guide,
which definitely help us to choose what direction to go.
And also the value chain collaboration
is called it as to end-to-be user,
even though we do a lot of in-house too making,
but we do not necessarily incorporate,
including all the value chain.
So like a resin producer and the film converter,
we still need to work with them
to choose the best grades for this film
and also choose the best processing to make the film.
It's challenging to, at least at the very beginning,
to use the HTTP to make the large scale to make the films.
We need to work really with our filmmakers
to see how we can really optimize the process,
the filmmaking process to make it work.
And number three, I would say,
luckily a good partner is the key.
And I still remember when I first brought this idea
to have a film converter,
I got a very encouraging response.
And I think he said, "Dr. Wang, let's just try it."
So that's a good thing.
And looking back, if I heard some things,
I said, "No, this is ridiculous.
"It might be killed at that time."
So a good partner is also very key.
So you need to go along with you to have your vision
and be as bold as you are.
Great tips.
So perseverance, push boundaries,
be willing to try new things, collaborate, of course,
and find those good partners to collaborate with.
So great advice there.
Have you taken that to any new innovations
that you're working on that you can talk about today?
Yeah, that's something that we are working on.
So I think in the recent years,
our work packaging innovation will focus more and more,
or is focusing more and more on sustainability.
And two examples I can share that we are working on.
One is that we are trying to develop some material
to fit the new bottle making process.
And maybe too technical, but anyway, in general,
so we all know that the bottle, you have PET bottle,
you have HDPE bottle.
For the HDPE bottle, normally you use the extrusion blow
molding process to make it.
For the PET bottle, you use the ISBM.
And so it's kind of the common practice.
And what we are trying to see is can we find something in between?
Meaning we are exploring the possibility
to use the ISBM process to make the HDPE bottle.
There are a lot of sustainability benefit.
For example, PET coming from the ISBM,
which is a faster, quick process,
but the PET recycling string, you only have the clear PET.
When you try to use the colored PET bottle,
it causes problems in the recycling.
But the brand has some color.
It's a brand color.
You have to use some packaging.
So therefore, we're seeing whether we can use the HDPE
because HDPE, you have two string, natural,
as well as colored HDPE string.
So if we can use the ISBM, which is a fast bottle making process,
to make the HDPE bottle.
And then we can gain both the sustainability
as well as the productivity.
So this is something we are working with the industry.
And we are very promising to find a solution.
And another area on the packaging sustainability
is the paper packaging.
And I think as a lot of brands, CPG company,
they are trying to work on the alternative material for packaging.
Paper is one option.
And there are a lot of efforts in this area.
We are also working in this area.
And especially on the flexible packaging side,
because we think that for the rigid packaging like bottles,
you kind of have the solution, technical solution.
APR provide a lot of guidance in this area already.
And also, you have the existing recycling streams
to take these rigid packaging bottles back for recycling.
For flexible, it's more challenging.
And even though I think APR has a design guide
on the flexible packaging, but the reality is a lot of morph
does not even take this flexible packaging into their feedstock.
So therefore, we consider whether there is another way
to do this flexible packaging.
So we're exploring the paper packaging
to see whether there is a potential to be used.
And it's also challenging.
As I mentioned, yes, we have to start.
We have to think boldly and to take steps.
And we are sure there will be a lot of problems coming.
But our mindset is that we can solve the problems
as we are moving forward.
Right, right.
So lots that you're working on that could really
lead to some big changes in the industry overall,
because you're talking about still collaborating
beyond just Colgate Palmolive, but with other groups
and companies as well.
As I mentioned earlier, you also do a lot of work
with the Natural Polymers Consortium that you co-chair.
Anything that you'd like to share that's happening on that front
or what are some things that you're looking forward to?
I think one key thought was material innovation needed
to help address the plastic waste pollution problems.
And the current measures to address that issue
basically is working within the existing technology,
like recycling, making the plastic biobased or biodegradable.
And we think we are a believer of the plastic recycling.
We think plastic recycling works.
And the-- but we have to be realistic,
have take some realistic thinking.
Let's say optimistically have 4C by 2050.
So the world can achieve the 50% of plastic recycled level
from current and 9%.
That's a big achievement already.
But still, you are facing the remaining 50%
that you do not have a better way.
So therefore, we'd like to see any other solutions
we can bring on the table.
And we also noticed that the plastics--
is it-- we think plastics definitely
are very great innovation in the 20th century.
And-- but there are two issues on the plastic side.
The first, it was designed without considering the end of life.
So it's designed-- plastics design purely for functionality,
efficiency, production efficiency, and the cost.
And end of life was never designed at the first place for plastics.
And the second issue for the plastics,
sometimes plastics are over-engineered for some applications.
So for example, for the shopping bags,
you don't need these shopping bags
after you dispose it to last for hundreds of years over there.
So you want it after use, it disappears in a way.
And also some disposable food service items, you use it once.
But yeah, even though you throw it away,
it will stay there forever.
Forever means hundreds of years.
So in this sense, and also some packaging items,
it's over-engineered.
So that gave us a room to seek some other material,
even though they might not be as good as the plastics
to achieve certain functions.
But they would be good enough.
So that's the whole idea.
We like to explore the other options.
So therefore, last year, after two years of preparation work,
we co-founded this natural polymer consortium
with the ACS Green Chemistry Institute.
So just to like to explore the opportunity
of the natural polymers as a material.
Actually, there are some emerging products commercialized already.
For example, people say PHA, PHA is a good material.
Yes, PHA is different from the synthetic plastics.
It's a bacteria make polyester.
So we call it natural polymers.
And also there are starch, like somo-plastic starch
has been already commercialized.
So there are several commercialized products.
And those companies that they right now,
they are the members of funding members of NPC.
We just like to work together to see how we can work together
to find some alternative material
to partially replace a certain application of plastics.
So another thing we're thinking for the NPC
is we want to have this NPC as a platform
for the communication and the collaboration for the solution.
I think in the plastic area, there are a lot of finger pointing.
That's not as good for the solution.
We want to promote the solution.
So we want to collaborate with academia industry
as well as NGOs to thinking about the solution
instead of a finger pointed who should be blamed.
So I think we all need to have a good solution to work together.
So this is to build up this positive working environment
to push things forward.
So another thing I really like to say is hopefully we can grow
NPC like the APR did in the past decades.
And I did personally, I saw how APR grow
in the past 13, 15 years.
And yes, it's amazing.
We like to sincerely seek APR's insight
and guidance build up a strong association.
We would be happy to work with you.
It sounds like you're very busy coming up with sustainable solutions.
So that's great to hear.
Finally, to wrap up today, do you have any advice
for someone that maybe is new to the world of sustainability,
recycling, packaging?
You obviously have a lot of experience.
So what about those people who are brand new?
What are some advice you could give them?
Yeah, what do I like to say to them?
Because I've been working in this like a polymer area for over 30 years.
I would say this polymer as well as the plastic industry
is a fantastic industry.
It can touch every aspect of your life.
So looking around how many plastic products are there.
So this is the awarding part.
If you really see some of your innovation
be turned into the product and everybody is using it,
yeah, you will feel very excited.
And therefore, I said this industry is challenging
because you're facing some environmental issue,
but it's also very rewarding.
This is especially for the recycling,
plastic recycling industry.
And right now, there are a lot of challenges
for the plastic recycling.
And first of all, the scale.
How to really scale this up,
meaning from 9% right now,
how can we really move it to the 40%, 50%, 60%, even higher?
So there are a lot of infrastructure building.
A lot of work can be done
and a lot of creative ideas are needed in this industry.
But think about that, if you really achieve that,
you will feel very excited
because you turn all the material,
currently considered as waste things,
to be the useful material as a resource of the materials.
That's a very exciting thing to do.
And so if I really want to,
you ask me to share some learning
to this new commerce in this industry,
I would say stick with this industry.
You will see the rewarding end.
Agreed, some sound advice
from a long-time industry professional
that we have been honored to work with
over quite a few years now with APR.
So thank you again to June for joining us today
and sharing a lot of great insights
about this recyclable tube
and other important work that you're doing
at Colgate Palmolive,
as well as the other groups you're involved with.
So thanks, June.
Thanks a lot, Kara.
And thanks to everyone for listening as well
for more information about the APR Recycling Leadership Awards.
Nominations will be open soon in October of this year,
so look for announcements there.
But if you're also looking for more information
about the APR Design Guide
and much more,
visit the APR website at plasticsrecycling.org.
Check us out on LinkedIn, Facebook, and X at APR Recycles.
We want to hear from you.
Feel free to contact APR at
[email protected].
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please be sure to subscribe, rate, and review.
Washington, D.C.
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