Ep. 45 High Performance Culture: how brilliant people succeed at Revolut

Hello and welcome to the Revolut Insider Podcast where we explore all things Revolut one episode at a time. I'm your host Alex Carill and joining me today is Alara Erison, operating principal the CEO's office here at Revolut. Halent, when it's efficient and smart, it's a it's a force multiplier for the company. Performance is one of our most important company KPIs. That's why I'm answering the question of how do we hire only a billion times? Is it a difficult one? What I love about Revolut's talent programs is that we're not just creating fake problems statements for them to work on. They're working on something that will go live. That's something that's important. It's it's real. Alara, thank you for being here today. I always wanted to do this so thank you for inviting me. Thank you for being here to talk about what high performance looks like in practice and what goes into building teams that can handle the speed and the standards of working somewhere like Revolut. Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it and we'll like get into the details of like how we actually analyze high performance and in a data back to way and ensuring like everyone actually lives up to those standards. Alara, you said in the intersection of the CEO's office and the talent acquisition department, can you tell me a little bit about what your day to day looks like? Essentially, I'm leading our talent density KPI and its roadmap. And what that means is I'm trying to answer the question of how do we hire only brilliant people? And in terms of the day to day, so I am working with all the departments and functions that we're hiring more, which is the entire company. And on top of that, I'm working with our people product team when that builds our HR sauce product. And then I'm working obviously in the CEO office because our take on performance is that performance is one of our most important company KPI's. So it's a very cross-functional role and it's a very exciting problem statement that I'm working on. Definitely and I think it's interesting because you're kind of working with all the departments to make sure that we hire across the board, brilliant people. So how do you measure this? Yes, so before we get into that question, I just want to give a bit of context about how like Revolute works because it's all going to make sense. Please, please. So basically, Revolute has a system very similar to OKR. So what that means is we have huge company level goals in a very never-settle way that these are very big KPI's that we're trying to reach. And the way to get to those KPI's, like achieve those goals, isn't very clear. So what happens is that those are the top level company KPI's and all of the departments then take those KPI's and translate it into what they're doing, whatever the focus area that they have. And then from those departments, it trickles down to the teams and then the individuals. So what that means is every individual in the company has a specific set of KPI's that they're delivering all. So it's all- The set of goals that they're working towards. Yeah, and this is all predefined. So that's the goal side of it. And then on top of that, we have like the pace of delivery side I would say, which is the quarterly system that we have. So that means at the start of every quarter, we sit down and say, OK, we have this goal that we need to deliver. And I want to improve my metric from A to B. But how do I do it? Yes. So you do some like problem solving around it, define what the drivers are. And then say, OK, these are my biggest drivers. And I'm going to sort of improve them with these projects that I wanted to make sense. This all ties back to the performance system. Because essentially now we have the goals that we're working on and what you've promised in terms of improvement every quarter. So we know whether or not each individual is delivering on what they promised. So that ties back to the performance system because just like how we have the quarterly roadbaths, we have quarterly performance reviews. Yeah. And within that reviews, do you get somewhere from unsatisfactory all the way to exceptional? It's one of five categories. So based on those deliverables and those goals and KPIs and skills, et cetera, you lend in one of one of those categories. So then how we define talent density is we look at the six month mark of a new joint. And say, have they received three and above out of five. So performing in above. And my job is to make sure that percentage of performing in above just consistently goes up. That's my KPIs. That's what I'm trying to solve. And do you see that trend happening in the company? Actually, we had our highest talent density result at last quarter. So it is going up. Great. Okay. It's good to know. Yeah. I think that when people hear this word performance, they think about speed and output, but I'd revolute. How do we measure high performance? What does that mean here? That ties back to the performance cycles I was talking about. So basically we all have performance scorecards and it has to be segments. And so one is about deliverables. It's the KPIs, the goals that you have and the improvements that you're trying to show numerically on them. The second part is about skills. So these are basically dependent on your role, your function. And it's like the core skills that you should have or be or should be developing on to, you know, go to the next seniority job. Okay. So it could be like problem solving, it could be coding, etc. The specific functional skills. And then the last part is a section that all everyone in the company has, which is the culture values. So we have our five values, the get it done, the never settled those five value values. So core 10, core to people get evaluated on those values and the behaviors that sit beneath them as well. That's basically a very like numerical approach to performance. So high performance is essentially on all those three categories. So for example, for deliverables, are you overachieving your KPIs for skills? Are you sort of stepping up and showing the attributes of the next seniority levels achievement? And then for the culture values, it's from developing, performing to exceeding. So are you exceeding on the culture value behaviors that we want to see? So that's how we define skills. I think it's a lot easier to track, but how do you measure something like exceeding on values? So we have the five values and then we have a total of eight behaviors that we want that sit beneath them. So we basically analyze the performance core cards of the last couple of quarters and looked into the attributes that we want to see for those behaviors. And essentially we sort of revamped the definitions of those behaviors on all performance levels. So it's sort of crystal clear when a manager looks at the performance core card, is my report actually like is it performing or exceeding? It's not up in the eye. It's very like crystal clear for the managers of like where someone would lend. And I know we also have self reviews that we have to complete. Yes, we have self reviews as well. And it's a great point in the quarters. So for you to actually like sit down and think about what you've done that core to what you've accomplished. And it's a good like checkpoint for yourself personally. But then also it's when you feel in those self reviews, especially like if you feel it early on, you're basically giving your manager talking ports for their review of you. And you're telling them, okay, this is what I promised. This is what I delivered. This is where I went above and beyond. So like you're making their job of like sitting down and thinking about your core to easier, which is why the self reviews are important. And it also gives you a point in time where you're like taking ownership of your performance and saying, look, I know I'm doing great on this. This is my development area. And this is what I'm doing to like work on that. So it's just that like continuous development loop that we have. Yeah. And like you said, it's a good opportunity to also show through data. Yeah. Kind of what you're doing. Yeah. To look back and show your accomplishments you've done. But also help your manager. Yeah. By the way, I forgot to mention. So for example, I literally have on my notes app on my laptop. It goes like Q1 wins Q2 wins Q3 wins. So it's like I have a note going on. And whenever I do something major, I put it there. So I don't forget to put it on myself reviews. Great advice. Yeah. Everyone should do it. And going back to hiring one of our standards, I think is to never compromise on talent. So how do we practice what we preach here? Talent when it's efficient and smart. It's a it's a force multiplier for the company. And that's the true at the team level as well. So basically we're after top talent. We're trying to hire these brilliant people into the company. But once they come in, if they're not pulling their weight, the rest of that lean team is trying to make up for it. Which like throws it off balance. Yeah. So that's what's important. And then also goes along with when we look at performance on a quarterly basis, when is it time to make an exit decision? I think what's important here is the fact that we have very lean teams. We have like small teams that are self-sufficient. But there's basically no room for people not carrying their weight. That's where it's coming from. It's not fair to the rest of the team because that means they're picking up the slack on what's not being done. Or the team as a whole is like not delivering on their goals. So either way, that's not something we want. Therefore, it's much better to exit under performers fast, backfill them with people who will do amazingly. Yeah. And go from that. May sense. Yeah. So how do you know that someone is the right fit for the long term? Okay, let's go back to our performance core cards. So the deliverables, skills and the culture assessments that are done, we take a very similar approach in the interview process. So what that means is everything that would have been on your performance core card as an employee is assessed during the hiring process. We basically evaluate all the skills that you need to have on the job in all of the skills interview rounds that we have. Okay. We look into your like achievements in great detail during the bar is our interview. And we assess all of the culture values throughout the interview process as well. So that's similarity of the interview score cards and the employee performance score cards. That's how we know if there's a fit. And just to give context for the bar razor interview. And I think the idea behind it is that we're assessing whether a candidate is going to raise the bar basically of the team. Yes, exactly. So bar is our interview. The question that our interviewers are trying to answer is with this candidate, once they join Revolute, would they increase the talent density I have in the team? So what that means is that person should be above the average of what we already have. Ideally at the top 10 percent of what we have. The pool of candidates that have the skills that we want is bigger than the pull of candidates that have the culture values that I want and the behaviors that we want to see. So Barre's our interview is not only looking for the achievements that we would want to see in some work experiences, but we're also looking in to see that culture fit. So by design, we're looking to find very rare candidates that fit what revolute ones. That's why answering the question of how do we hire only a billion times is a difficult one. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's nice that we have people like yourself that are actually looking at this and trying to solve this problem, put data behind it. So when you do look at this data, what patterns are you seeing among new joiners or new hires that are demonstrating these successful skills? We didn't announce this of the performance scorecards of our new joiners over the past couple of quarters. We tried to see like patterns of the brilliant hires and the mishires. And I'm going to call them. What we see is basically the get to done behaviors that we're looking for, especially for a new joiner. Those are the ones that are most important. So we have a act like an owner then, which means like, are you taking full ownership of a task that's been given to you and are you delivering on it and to end? We like to say it's never someone else's job or someone's problem. Like if it touches your goal or your KPI, it's in your scope. Like that mindset. That's not your responsibility for overseeing these aspects of whether you do it yourself or you find someone that can help you achieve that. Exactly. Which ties it back to grit. Okay. Yes. So on this one, what we want to see is like, are you putting in the hours? And I don't mean working around the clock all day every day. That's not what it is. We're looking for people who put in the smart hours. But the hours angle is nonetheless important. And on top of that, we're also looking for people who break down walls. So it's not taking no for an answer. So that's grit. And then the final one, under get to done, is biased action. Okay. So this is very revolute. We don't wait for perfect data or we don't get stuck in analysis paralysis. Like you take what's in front of you, take the data, you triangulate what's not known. You use logic and common sense to like get to an assumption or a conclusion. And then from there, you manage your risk and start experimenting. You don't wait for perfection to start experimenting. That's biased action. Do you think this biased action is what makes us move a lot faster than what traditional financial institutions or of course, I mean, I think you can see it in our results. Like we are shipping faster than anyone else. That's the mentality behind it. Like you're not waiting for perfection. Of course you want to get the details right? It should be excellent quality. But you put something out there, you get feedback on it and then you iterate on it. That's the process. So we don't wait. We have a biased action. Yeah. And that's how you can improve as well. And you talked about, actually, I get only talked about demonstrating that grit. Are you seeing these traits both among experienced professionals and those that might be starting through our early careers time programs? Yeah, absolutely. So that's only we see these in interns and grad as well. We expect it. And they do have it. It's more of a characteristic. It's more like a profile of the build that that's what the culture fit is. And early career professionals as well as experience high as can have it and should have it to succeed in a rebut. And that's what we're looking for. We're looking for those people that demonstrate that culture fit. How we evaluate the performance of an intern in grad is the same as how we evaluate the performance of an experienced professional. Same in the sense that the performance scorecard looks similar. Obviously the skills that you develop as you mature in your career, you get to the higher levels of skill mastery levels, yes. But it's still the same framework around it. And then with interns and grads, what I love about it, it revolutes talent programs is that we're not just creating fake problems, statements for them to work on. It's real. Would you say that adaptability is more important than expertise then? Not necessarily, but I do think interns and grads are more adaptable. So what I mean is they're at the start of their career. They're like passionate. They're excited. They have the energy. They're sort of like waiting to be like put into a format, into a mold. And like that's what we're giving them. So they're way more open to getting used to the revolutionary working. However, with experienced professionals, obviously they've had several years of experience before. They may be used to a certain way of working, certain pace within an organization. And changing that is very difficult. You mentioned pace and I think that is so unique about revenue because our pace is a very fast one. It is. And not everyone works at that pace. Yeah. And when we're talking about interns and grads and someone who doesn't have an impressive CV and years of experience, how do we identify that potential? Someone might not have the experience, but there's still green flags indicators that we can spot on early on. We're after STEM talent. We want people from science, technology, engineering and maths degrees. And the reason we want that is because the way we approach problem statements here at Revoluted, it's very data backed and it's very structured and logical. And those profiles, people who graduate from those degrees, they fit in well within the Revolut way of working and the scientific approach to how we handle problems. Exactly. So that's one type of profile we want. On top of that, we also want people who have participated in one competitions and that could be academic competitions like Olympiad or it could be sports competitions because those sort of profiles, it shows that you have endurance, that you have dedication. That profile succeeds within Revoluted. So those are the profiles we're looking to hire in talent programs. And it is important to have this criteria because every year I know our talent programs continues to increase. We're seeing more interns, more grads come through Revoluted doors. So what makes Revolut a unique place in the industry for early careers? You're right, Alex. So we've been increasing the size of our talent programs class and it's very intentional. So a couple of years ago, it was 30 to 40 people last year. It was 150 and next year it's going to be 300. So we're doubling again. We've curated an excellent experience for our interns and grads. And in my opinion, it's one of the best in tech. So we have designed, first of all, an amazing one boarding experience. So that means the ways of working, the tools, the culture, but also the day-to-day job that they'll be doing. They'll be having some local meetups and international meetups with our class. So we bring in that class element into it. It might be working remotely, but at least you have the interaction with your peers. Exactly. And with interns and grads because they're at the start of their careers and they need more mentors, we encourage them to go to the office more so they can meet the teams and get to learn from people who are like sitting next to them. Exactly. And then on top of that, this year is the first year we're relocating interns and grads as well. And we have accommodation and travel benefits that we'll be giving because we don't want them to worry about the admin of how to get to the country that they'll be working in, but we want them to actually focus on learning and getting that revolute experience out from the get-go. Yeah, taking advantage of that opportunity from the beginning. Yeah, exactly. Wow. As you mentioned earlier that we don't create these fake problems for interns and grads, we're actually giving them real problems to solve from day one. Interns and grads, they're working on real problems, statements that we have and ties back to the performance system that I've talked about as well. So the performance scorecard of town programs looks exactly the same as an employee. Therefore, the way that they will be evaluated on will be based on their delivery of the real goals that we actually have. And I think that gives them a real taste of what ownership looks like because they're doing this so early on in their career. Yeah. I know you mentioned the bigger KPIs for the company, but all those are trickle-down even to interns and grads. Exactly. Yeah. And one of our tasks of hiring brilliant minds, and I think another reason why it's so important is because these are going to be the mentors of the interns and grads that are just starting in their careers. Yeah, and then they're going to be the future leaders of Fintech down the lines. Yeah. That's also very exciting. A full cycle here. Yeah. So Rovall, who really is a launch pad for those who want career acceleration? Definitely. I think our program and way of working is flexible, yes, in the sense that we have, for example, like the remote and hybrid options, you have work from a broad option. So those are there, but it's not about comfort or relaxing, like that ownership mindset, that get it done minds and it's still there. So you're delivering on what you want to deliver is just a bit more in your own terms. Yeah. However, what they're going to be getting out of the Revoltaum program is a skill set that will be valid anywhere they're going. It's a launch pad for the rest of their career because like one year at Revoltaum, it's like dog years, it's like seven years outside. So you're not the first person to say that. So we've definitely heard it before. And it's not easy, but it's an experience that they're going to learn a lot and also they're going to be jumping forward in their career and to be able to take it with them for years to come. And when we think about interns that are only with us for three months, how do you measure this performance in such a short period of time? I mean, it's not that different from all the other employees, right? Because basically everyone else in the company has either a three month or a six month probation. So the interns that are with us for three months, it's basically they're doing their probation with us. So from that point of view, it's not that different. And then the evaluation score card is almost the same as well. So it all ties back to that like real problem statements and real day to day experience that we're like building into the program. Yeah. And are you applying those same skill sets? Are you applying the culture values in your work? And are you getting it done? Actually achieving your goals. Exactly. Yeah. So that's the same thing. But I like that it's the same for everyone across the board. Me too, because I don't think we should be like sort of differentiating interns as that's separate like class of employees versus the rest of them. No, they're like, they're smart. They have those behaviors. and they have those characteristics that we're looking for, it's just that they don't have the experience in building on those skills, but they have the baseline. They can still deliver amazing things with that baseline, so that's what we look for in the internship. - Yeah, this potential. - Yeah. - And I'm curious, Laura, what parts of your career helped shape how you view performance and talent today? - I didn't do anything about performance or talent before I joined Rebels. - Okay. - So in that sense, there was no experience that I brought into my role at Rebels, but what I did have was my consulting experience at Bane, and what that experience gives you is basically, you learn how to problem solve, similar to what we're trying to do in our telegrams year. I am sort of amazed by the level of science we bring in, when we're approaching topics like performance, talent, density, all of these things that seem to be black boxes outside of Rebels, we're actually breaking it down with data, with logic, and we're taking away the assumptions in it, and looking into it in a very data-backed way. So that's what I brought into the role, was the analytical mindset from my consulting experience. - And by the way, I know a thing or two about internships, because I had seven of them before I graduated. - Seven internships. - Yeah, so I know what a good program looks like, I know what a good hiring process looks like from the other side of the table. And now I'm on this side of the table, trying to create that excellent program for the Revolut interns. - And I think it'll just get better as we continue to grow the program. So thank you for the work that you're doing. - Thank you. - And I wanna get your advice, but I wanna kind of break it down into a couple of different perspectives. First, for experienced professionals that are starting at Revolut, what advice do you have for them on how to best adapt when starting here? - I think for experienced and for early careers, by the way, the most important thing is, basically our culture values are public. You can read about them, and you can see what we're looking for in candidates. And then on top of that, the fact that we're structured and like the star method around storytelling, et cetera, the fact that we want that, we say that everywhere. So that's also well-obvious. So what I would do is basically, I would look at my experiences, whether that's university for early careers and internships, or you're like work experience so far for experienced candidates, I would look at my CV and basically try to craft the storyline that says, "I'm a culture fit for a Revolut because I've done this in this way." And it goes with what you're saying in your culture values. I'm fitting the description that you have here. - I have that delivered these results as well. - Exactly. - I've done this seemingly impossible thing. I've delivered these 10X results. - Okay. - And I've structured it this way, and it was customer-centric in this manner. All those things that we're looking for, I would look at my CV and try to see like how that fits and craft that storyline for interviews because that's what's gonna be important. - Exactly. And that's what's gonna make you stand out in the eyes of recruiters and the team. - Exactly. - And what about for early careers? What advice do you have for talent program candidates that are looking to stand out for the right reasons? - For early careers, I think it's super important that they do coffee chats with people for that Revolut. - Okay. - That's the best way of learning about Revolut and like what we do day to day. Of course we have the events, like the job fairs and the university events, et cetera. So if we're coming to an event near you, definitely go. That's number one thing that you should be doing. But on top of that, like you should be reaching out to people at Revolut. Ask what you do day to day. Do you like your job? Ask what it takes to succeed at Revolut and get their opinion on what it is like. - Yeah. - And then one, see if that works for you. If you want that. And then second, use what you learned in your interviews afterwards. Because it's a great way of showing. You've done your homework. You're dedicated. You're committed to getting the offer. It shows that you're working towards it. And I think that earlier, we talked about us finding the right fit for the long term. But I think this also goes for the person. Do they see themselves at Revolut for the long term? Right? And that's not just for Revolut, but if for any company, talk to people who have been in the company for a while. How are they measuring their high performance, let's say? And do they see themselves putting in that effort to be here for the long term as well? - Exactly. - And I already just have one more question. What advice would you have liked to hear when you were just starting out in your career? - So I think I did this right when I was in intern, but I would have wanted to hear it as an advice. - Okay. - Sorry, that's well, which is like, try out different programs. Like try out different sectors, different roles that you might be interested in. Because figuring out what you don't want is as important as figuring out what you want. So you're eliminating stuff along the way. You can see like an organization is too slow for you. You could see it's like to be our credit. You might not like the day-to-day overall or the people surrounding you. So like it's all of those are very important filtering points in your life. So I would say that be open-minded, I guess is my point. Try it out and see if you like it at the start of your career. - And I mean, it's thing is proven successful because I mean, you didn't really have performance experience in the specific way of what you're doing now, but the consulting experience and the different experiences of your internship have led you here. So it's nice to be able to find yourself in these new paths. - Yeah, and that's the point about like transferable skill set. That's like the problem-solving angle that we're discussing here. Like what we're also giving our interns and vads in the talent program. So like you might not have the specific expertise or the specific skill, but if you have a structured way of approaching a problem, you can carry that anywhere. - Yeah. - So like that's essentially what it is. - You're right, and that's great advice. Alora, thank you so much for being here today and for peeling back the layers and sharing with us what high performance looks like in action. So thank you. - Thank you for having me. I always wanted to do this. So this was super fun. - Thanks. - I'm so glad it's been a pleasure. Really, thank you. And for those two to end, you can follow us on Instagram to see what we're up to at Revolut Insider and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]