Ep. 447: Microplastics in Pregnancy, Postpartum, and Babies: What You’re Being Exposed To and What to Actually Do About It with Dana Zhaxylykova

Babies are exposed to even more microplastics, especially when you see a baby food is usually either prepared in plastic or they are consuming from plastic. All day baby cutlery is made out of plastic. Yeah, baby toys are plastic and they usually put every toy in their mouth, you know? (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hi, our Mother's Day sale is officially going you guys. Run, don't walk because there is just a few more days left. This sale has been going on since Monday, so you're already late to the game. I know you're probably dreading opening up another bag of a pair of slippers or another robe or maybe even some earrings that what, you're gonna wear once or twice a year. Instead, this year ask for the gift that is going to literally change your life. We are running our one of only two sales every year this Mother's Day. You can save $150 on a lifetime membership of the birth lounge and this is the gift that's gonna keep on giving. And when I say that, I genuinely mean it's going to change your life. The way that you birth is the way that you live after having a baby. It is the entire launch pad for your motherhood experience. The birth lounge is known all over the world for helping women avoid birth trauma and having births that they love. I'm going to teach you the stage of labor, duh. How to have your pain free labor with different positions and paid relief methods, duh. But more importantly, I'm going to teach you how to confidently navigate the hospital system and make decisions that serve you and your baby in a way that feels best aligned to you. When you look back on your birth, I want you to feel elated, joy. I want this big-ass smile to be slapped across their face and for you to remember what a badass you were that day. I want those feelings to come rushing back for you. That's how I feel when I think about the birth of my son and I did exactly what I'm teaching inside the birth lounge and I want that for you. I know that you have heard so many horror stories of birth being painful, unpredictable, go in every which way, except the way that you anticipated and you expected. But that does not have to be your story. The birth lounge is going to teach you and I'm talking really teach you on a cellular level, leaving no stone unturned, how to prance into that hospital confidently and empowered so that you can have a positive hospital birth. This sale starts on May 4th and it ends the Monday after Mother's Day. Head to thebirthlounge.com/join on May 4th through May 11th and use code Mama150. That's M-A-M-A-150. Mama150 to save $150 off of your lifetime membership in the birth lounge. Again, that's head to thebirthlounge.com. Use code Mama150 and join the birth lounge. I'm telling you firsthand I had my dream birth and not everything went according to my quote unquote plan but I still look back on that day and it is the best day of my life. I have absolutely zero birth trauma even though my labor was three days and I pushed for many hours. I want this for you. Go to thebirthlounge.com, use code Mama150 from now until May 11th. Do not miss out on the sale. I'll see you in the birth lounge. Hey y'all and welcome back to another episode of the birthlounge podcast. All right, how much do you know about microplastics? Are you freaked out? Are you reading all of these really scary headlines and you are just spiraling? Cool, join the club. I have totally been there and I'm not gonna say that I'm not quite out of that club but what I will say is I'm one foot out of that club. I have really dove into the science and the research behind microplastics and yes, it's really scary and it's overwhelming and honestly, if you get too far down the rabbit holes, it can really feel like why am I even trying because microplastics are literally everywhere. If you just take a moment wherever you are right now even if you're driving but do it safely, just notice the things around you that are plastic. I mean, it's literally everywhere. Even things that are maybe primarily not plastic have plastic in there. Like right now, I'm looking at a mason jar. Now, it's glass, obviously. The top of it is aluminum or a metal but on the inside, it has a waxy coating. Well, that's plastic and then around the ring to make it seal is silicone. Well, that's plastic. So even when something doesn't appear to be fully plastic, there is plastic involved. And I know that that can feel so scary. And again, kind of like, what's the point? If everything is plastic, why am I even trying to get rid of plastics in our life? Well, today's episode is going to explain to you exactly why you do want to take the steps, even if they're small baby steps to eventually make a large impact in your life. Now, if you have been following me on Instagram and then you know that I am about four or five years into my journey with removing microplastics from our home. I started with all of our kitchenware and I removed plasticware first and replaced it with glass. And then I started to do the things that we cook with like our pots and our pans and our cookware. So like our spoons and our spatulas. And then I started to do our clothing. And so now I've really prioritized natural fibers, especially after having saggy, I can totally say that one of the things I was super vigilant about when it came to actually making my baby registry, I didn't put a single piece of clothing on there because I didn't want people to give us clothing because I wanted to be the one that purchased all of his clothing because I wanted to have the control about the threads and the fibers that were coming into our home to be on his body. Now, today I'm super excited to be being joined by Donna who is a microplastics researcher and a science communicator who's passionate about environmental sustainability and microplastics. She shares education on Instagram, which is where I found her. And she has this really beautiful way of breaking down complex topics like plastic pollution and microplastic exposure without scaring the Jesus out of you. Donna has published scientific work on microplastics in Kazakhstan and she's co-authored research on the faster microplastic detection methods in Germany. Through her social media platform, she reaches global audiences and she helps translate science into stories that really are going to inspire real change. I mean, we need more of that, right? Throughout our episode, you're gonna hear how kind and humble Donna is. So she's not gonna to her own horn, but I will to it for her. Her work has been featured on BBC, on CNN, on Al Jazeera and LUS. And she has also co-founded an app, Microplastic Free, that helps people identify and reduce microplastics in their everyday products in their everyday life. In this episode, we're gonna talk about what you need to know about microplastics, where microplastics are found like our food in our water systems. She's also gonna break down household products that don't appear to be plastics, but are riddled with microplastics. Things like our rugs, tampons and wet wipes for our baby. And then finally, we're gonna close out with how can you make small steps, but sustainable steps so that it doesn't feel overwhelming and you can make lasting change for yourself, your children and your family. I'm so excited to bring this conversation to you because not only is it something that I feel super passionate about, but I also know that so many of you are curious about microplastics in your life. Where are they? How can you identify them? And how can you start to remove them in your home? So without further ado, Donna, welcome to the show. - Thank you so much. - I'm so excited to have you on here. And this is a topic that I'm super interested in and so are my listeners. And I think that in general, I think a lot of people are starting to be really curious about this conversation. And I think the more that we learn about microplastics, the more people are starting to be concerned about it. I know that in the birth world specifically, there's been a lot of talk about microplastics being found in semen and sperm analysis. and in placenta and even in cord blood. And so I think that a lot of my audience has really perked up their ears to really understanding that this is definitely something that we want to be paying attention to. And so this should be a really good conversation. Thank you for being here with me today. Before we dive too far into this conversation, let's kind of set this stage with what I like to call Microplastics 101. What should we understand before we really dive into the conversation around microplastics? Yeah, that's a good start. Microplastics are actually just tiny particles of plastic. So anything that is plastic and is less than 5 millimeters, it's considered microplastics. We also have two types of microplastics that we usually distinguish. It's primary microplastics, the ones that are intentionally manufactured to be small. Usually it's something like ingredients and personal care products. They can be used as ingredients in some industrial paints and so on. Or abrasives, for example. And for the secondary microplastics are the microplastics that we're broken down from larger plastic objects. For example, plastic bags or plastic bottles, plastic closing. So anything that broke down from usual wear and tear or because of any mechanical force or anything will be considered secondary microplastics. There are also different types of plastics themselves. As in polymer types, we usually hear some of the most popular ones like polytylene, polystyrene, maybe polyester. So there are actually, we usually always mention like six or seven types, but there are actually way more of them. Like hundreds of plastic was a lot of different names that is really hard to pronounce and remember. OK, and so when we're talking about microplastics, because they're so tiny, can we assume that all microplastics are being absorbed by our bodies if we come in contact with them? If you mean by skin, it's less likely to be true if it's microplastic because they are usually too big to penetrate our skin. I mean, skin is a barrier. And usually it does a very good job. When we talk about nanoplastic, there it's tricky because it's way smaller. And it's still a very, very new area of research. So it's hard to tell. Some researchers say that it could be possible that we can absorb nanoplastic, or at least the chemicals that are on top of plastics that we come in contact with. But it's still very tricky to say, honest. Oh my gosh, there's so much to think about. Not only the plastic and the microplastic, but now what's being put on top of the plastic, kind of leaching into our skin. Yeah, I would say that that is even a bigger problem than the microplastics itself. Because we use a lot of different chemicals on top. And we even call microplastics cocktail of chemicals. Because, yeah, during the production, there is a lot of chemicals that are used. Some of them are OK. Some of them could be potentially not good. As we heard, for example, PFAS, forever chemicals, BPA, the usual hormones disruptors, how they call it, flame retardants, and so on. And they can be quite problematic. And that's what makes it even more hard to research microplastics. Because they also have this ability to absorb different chemicals. So if you have the microplastic that came from larger plastic objects and they go into the environment, and then they absorb different, different chemicals on their way, like heavy metals, they can absorb pesticides or anything else, then it's in the water. And then you drink this water, for example. Yeah, and we never know the effect because chemicals, like, for example, there are two chemicals, and they can cancel out each other or vice versa. They can make the effect even stronger. This is another difficulty in the research, because you never know what kind of chemicals are in top of microplastics. And it could be very, very different. So yeah. That's so frustrating. OK, so in terms of long-term problems, what are we seeing? Are we seeing things like cancer be related back to it, respiratory problems? Obviously, I mentioned, you know, the congregation of microplastics and semen analysis and cord blood and placenta tissue, things like that. What should we know about how this microplastic interacts and stays with our body? Again, the research area is still very new, and we still don't have a lot of good analytical techniques in order to first even quantify the amount of microplastics in our bodies, and also, of course, to see the effect of them on our health. So it's still, again, it's really hard to tell. But from the very preliminary research that we see, it's not looking very good. First, I would say it's hormone disruptor, because all of the plastic associated chemicals that I was talking about, a lot of them were proven to be hormone disruptive. So that's a big issue, and that could lead to endocrine disruptions, to thyroid cancer, and so on. And we can see it already getting higher and higher. Unfortunately, even if you saw the very recent movie from Netflix, "I'm Plastic Your Life," I think it's called. And there are also talking a lot about this hormone disrupting abilities of plastics. And in that movie, they are doing the experiment with where they try to remove all the plastics from several couples who are trying to see if plastic has. Some effect on that and spoiler it had. - Oh, it does, really. - Yeah, I mean, it's like a very small experiment, and it's not totally not scientific. But I think it's a good representation for us to see, or at least like preliminary data, that we can draw some assumption from, yeah. - Yeah, I want to talk about some places in our homes that have plastics in them. A lot of them have learned from your Instagram page, but before we do that, I'd like to talk about microplastics in our waterways and our food, because I think a lot of us think, you know, if I just change out the plastic tupperware to glass, and I change out my clothing to be natural fibers, then I'm gonna be covered, but that's not true, because a lot of our food and the water that we drink also have microplastics. So why is that, and also are there things that we can do to stop that, or reduce the amount of microplastics that we're consuming through our food and water? - Yeah, and that's very true, and currently there are no regulations of microplastics in January. So I mean, your water can have any amount of microplastics, it's not even monitor, it's not that I'm saying that your water has like millions or billions of microplastics, it's just to say that even if it had millions, it will not be monitored, so you will never know. Regarding the food, it's the same, no regulations, and I actually worked in wastewater treatment plants in Kazakhstan, in Spain, in Germany, and none of them, not only they don't have regulations, they also don't have any monitoring programs. So they are obliged to test their waters for different chemicals, like heavy metals, for example, but not for microplastics. So the amount of microplastics they can discharge with water is like limitless, so they can discharge any amount of microplastics with the water, and that's what they do. So for example, in Kazakhstan, I think it was like a billion of microplastics per day that is discharged every day into the river directly, already after all the treatment, yeah. And it's Kazakhstan, it was in the capital, it was one million people, so we can imagine how worse it is in bigger cities, and Astana had very good treatment systems, like all the treatment stages that you can have they had, so it's a huge void in regulations of microplastics. Same with the food, as I said, no regulations on how many plastics you can have in food and plastic, some of the types of plastic are considered food safe, which doesn't mean they are not releasing microplastics. Like, for example, you have this food safe containers, you know, that you can put into microwave, like microwave safe, but there are really since so many microplastics every time you hit them. That was one of the first things I actually changed when I became a microplastic researcher because I used to have this plastic container, and after that I couldn't, I changed to glass container. And yeah, when it comes to food, it depends on which food were you talking about because some, they usually have less exposure to plastic and microplastics, some have more. If I remember correctly, usually on top of microplastic contamination is any seafood, because unfortunately a lot of plastic they end up in the oceans, where fish can eat it, a lot of fish cannot distinguish between microplastic and plastic and food. So they eat it, and then we eat it. So it's like a cycle of those plastics in our food chain. First, the seafood. I also know that fruits and vegetables can have quite high microplastic content. And this is actually a very big topic as well, because we use a lot of plastics in agriculture. Right now, we use, for example, if you know the term mulching, a lot of mulching is done with plastic right now. And it stays under sun, under the sun, under very hot conditions, and sun plus heat plus plastic. It will equal to so many microplastic that there's a chart directly into the soil. And the thing with soil compared to water, because water always moves, you know? So the amount of the concentration of microplastics are spread out more or less evenly. But when we put plastic into the soil, since soil is not moving a lot, if you put, for example, some plastic particle, it will stay more or less in the same area, you know? So the concentration of microplastic will be high in some points, especially in those points where we put plastic mulch, for example. And that's why, yeah, there's a lot of plastic in the soil. And then, plants can abtake microplastics from the soil, and that can result in quite high concentration of microplastic in fruits and vegetables. That is not to say, not to eat fruits and vegetables, but just to be aware that this is happening, and this is becoming a very big issue since some of the researchers are saying that this could also affect the planet growth. They could see that the photosynthesis rates are decreasing because of the microplastics in the soil. And right now they are seeing the decrease of between seven and 12% of photosynthesis, just because of microplastics. And this is not to mention other problems that we have, like climate change, you know? And just because of microplastic, we already have this reduction of photosynthesis, which will eventually mean the reduction of food yield. - Okay, this is all, this is harrowing. It reminds me of when I had Kelly Ryerson on the show, she's known as the glyphosate girl, and it's very similar to the talks that we are having about glyphosate in the way that it congregates in the soil and the way that when, you know, let's just say a cow eats food that has been sprayed with glyphosate, then it's in that meat, and then we eat it, and it gets in our system, or we're eating fruits and vegetables that have been sprayed with glyphosate. Like our food, unfortunately, is just so poisoned by the time it gets to us that it really, it almost feels like what can we do? So are there ways that we can, you know, reduce this? Should we be really prioritizing certain foods over others? Should we be prioritizing buying from local farms or purchasing organic when possible, or if you cook it down, does it make it better or worse? What do we need to know about that? - It's challenging to say, I feel especially right now that we're so plastic-dependent, like it's everywhere, and we don't have a lot of alternatives. My first go-to tip is just to try and reduce plastic that you have already, or, yeah, like not using single use, having your reusable, cup that is made of glass or steel, or anything that is not plastic, I would say that helps a lot already, and it's a good first step, because right now, everything, if it's just your first time here about micro-plastics, it will be so overwhelming to try to reduce everything, and at one point, you will be like, okay, I'll just give up, like it's too much. So I would just say trying to start with something small, if you have a plastic cutting board, please, I beg you. (laughs) And remove it, and swap to something better, like wooden glass or steel. I don't know, anything that's available. Yeah, and start by little. I would say prioritize kitchen, because that's the point where we are exposed to the majority of micro-plastic in our daily life. And then I would say with clothing, where it's possible also try to opt for natural fabrics, so instead of polyester, nylon, acrylics, what else, there's so many names actually. Yeah, elastic, I don't know how it's probably cold. Elastane, I think, right? That's all kitchen here, yeah. (laughs) The kitchen is another one that's not great, I think, right, like rayon is not an awesome fabric. Yeah, I think it's heavily also processed. Mm-hmm. I think it's like bamboo or something like that, right? But very heavily processed. Yeah. So I think it depends, like you have to see if there are any certification that I are saying that there are, yeah, that they're like organic or something like that. We're like not certified, that GOTS is what people are looking for these days. Yeah, that's forgotten, yeah. That's true, like cotton, linen, these are better. It's alternative. I know that hemp is also a good thing, yeah. Becoming more and more popular. And I would say this is the last thing to do, but if it's possible also to try and see if you have any personal care products with microplastic as ingredients, it's very tricky to find those without, but there exists. But I would say this is probably a small amount of microplastics that you have there. That's good. Because your Instagram reel about the sheet mask, it really ruined it for me. I was like, oh no, I love sheet masks so much. And I will say it's stuck with me because every time I put one on, I'm like, ah, microplastics are getting into my system. But it's all about a balance. It's really validating to hear you say where to start. So when I first started on this journey about four years ago, the very first thing I got rid of was my plastic containers in the kitchen. And then I went to plastic cookware and I got rid of all of our plastic spatulas and cooking spoons. And I went to all wooden or stainless steel. And then we did pots and pans. So any Teflon that we had, we obviously got rid of those and went just to stainless steel cooking or sorry, cutting boards were next. So we use Epicurin, I hope that's good. Do you know anything about the Epicurin brand? Well, it's supposed to not be plastic and it's almost like diatomaceous earth. So it's like a hard type of natural stone that you can cut on. But we don't have plastic cutting boards either. I do have a glass one, but that makes me a little nervous just in case it breaks. But I started with our kitchen and we have no like plastic drinkware or anything like that and we don't use plastic silverware. And when I am interested in, let's say we host a large party of people, then we use paper plates and that way we don't have plastic plates around too. So it was good there. And then the second thing also validating to hear you say is that, you know, start with your natural fiber. So I got rid of not all of them. I'm still working my way through my yoga pants because some of them I just can't part ways with. But when I purchased new yoga pants, I went with cotton or something that was really natural. And I have since started to wear a lot of linen. So it's hard, but it is doable. And I think that one of the easiest ways that I found to do it was that when I got rid of a product, I would replace it with something better. And for me, that was something that was really financially feasible instead of getting rid of everything that I currently use and just replacing it, which can feel really overwhelming mentally and emotionally, but also it can really be hard to finance that big of a life shift. - Yeah, that's true. And I think that's a very good approach to do that because it will be more durable. - Yes, sustainable. Yeah, the change and then it'll stick rather than just like a big overhaul can just feel somewhat burnt out. You can get burnt out on that. - Yeah, that's true. - Yeah. Okay, so one of the things that I just talked about the sheet mask, but I learned about a bunch of household products that have microplastics in it that I think a lot of us probably don't realize. I think to me, the two top things were rugs in our home which so many of us have and then the gel strips around our razors, that blew our mind. So can you tell us about other things around our home that aren't so obvious? I mean, I think when we look at a plastic water bottle, that one makes sense. We're like, well, of course it's plastic bags from the grocery store, but things that we may not necessarily realize have microplastics in them. And that's actually my favorite topic to do because there's so many hidden plastic that people are not thinking about. Even when I do, just started doing my microplastic research and I started to learn all of those hidden plastic sources. It was so interesting. I mean it was a bit scary and yeah you realize that everything is covered in plastic but at the same time it's so interesting to see how many products you're not even thinking of that is made out of plastic but then you're like okay that's kind of that kind of makes sense that it's plastic so dental floss is plastic as I said ingredients in personal care products can be plastic that one usually shocks people because they think when I talk about microplastic and personal care products is like microplastic from the bottle or from the plastic packaging itself but no it's the ingredients itself could be microplastic as well. Glitter some glitter can be made out of microplastic clothing as I said some paints could have microplastic as ingredients acrylic nails are plastic yeah and every time you go to the salon and you see when you know there's dust when they pile down yeah like five on down and you can see all this dust and it's like it's just microplastics. It's probably while they are wearing masks we should probably mask while when we're getting our nails done. Oh my gosh yeah deflon pants so nonstick pants they are covered with plastic BTFE yeah racks or any take styles actually can be made out of plastic so pillows your furniture everything paper cups it's a very misleading thing like you know the language itself it's like paper cups yeah it's paper on the outside but the on on the inside it's covered with a plastic layer the same with like instant noodles you know it's also like paper packaging but inside there's a very thin plastic layer and also about your paper plates you should check them if that's like 100% paper or could it be that it's covered in a very thin layer of plastic. My gosh what about takeout containers I mean obviously the ones that are paper but your food doesn't just leak through so they must have the they must have the plastic lining as well. The one that looks like paper they're also they also have this very thin layer of plastic even aluminium cans you know like yeah like soda cans yeah it's covered if you try and like Google aluminium cans plastic lining or something like this you will see some of the experiments where they are dissolving the aluminium part and they are left with like plastic back inside so your drink is actually in a plastic bag that is covered in aluminium. This is actually done because of the drink so they don't react with aluminium so there are nothing like corrosive effects so the plastic is put there because I mean we never consider microplastic as a problem so yeah that's why it's better to have plastic inside than aluminium reacting with the drink. So yeah I think there are some other things that is left in my list yeah face mask as I said sometimes in cotton like 100% cotton clothing they could use plastic-based threads so like these threads that you have on your clothing they could be sometimes made out of plastic tea bags tea bags can be made out of plastic as well and even the paper ones that look like papers they can sometimes have plastic-based glues because I mean if it was paper then it would dissolve right and very hot water. What about chewing gum that was another one that I learned from your Instagram and I was like no not gum chewing gum is one of the shocking things for me when I first learned about it I was like this this is probably fake like how could this be but yeah chewing gum the base of the chewing gum is made of polyvinyl acetate PVA it's basically flat flavored plastic and they're very scarce research on that but there are some research where they see that when you chew the microplastics are released into your saliva not a huge amount of course because the chewing gum is that big but still some there are some brands actually that create natural grams I think they're getting more and more popular or at least here in Germany we do have some brands I think in the US you will also have some very good brands so you can just walk through life and you're like I can't enjoy this and I can't enjoy that and I can't enjoy this because there's microplastics and everything I still do have some things that are made out of plastic I understand that it's not possible at this point to remove everything yeah I tried to remove those things that I can remove but for example I have my hair dryer this is made out of plastic I mean there are no other alternatives and I know that it's probably releasing a lot of microplastics because it's getting heated a lot and yeah as I say plastic plus heat is equal to a lot of microplastics that's like a rule of thumb if there's one thing that you should learn from this podcast is this heat plus plastic is equal to manual plastics I mean there's no alternatives so I'm still using that because I cannot not use it and same with other things like for example shoes I mean most of the shoes are made out of plastic as well but what can you do I cannot go like barefoot or always seeing leather shoes as well it's it's also expensive and sees oh my gosh so when we're thinking about let's go back to your hair dryer example you're obviously not eating that but are you concerned about it being in the air and then we're breathing it in is that the idea yeah yeah exactly because for example there was a research there actually several research that is done on you know how it's called machine dryers yeah not the washing machine but dryer machine yeah and when you put like your synthetic clothing into that they are releasing microplastics directly into the air every time you use the dryer machine and the amount of microplastics I don't remember exactly but it was quite high I would say in millions yeah wow every day how much microplastic do you think we come in contact with is it just like constant it's all the time I think so yeah I mean it's in the air we do have a lot of plant I mean if you just look around you you will see so many plastic objects like probably like 60% of everything you own is plastic so it's really hard to tell the amount and it's really tricky to count that as well I mean there's some very popular statements that we eat a credit card wars of plastic every week but I'm not sure if this is 100% truth because this comes from one paper that is quite float so it could be more than that it could be less than that and what about silicone it's silicone better I know I've learned from your Instagram that silicone still releases microplastics so you're not getting rid of microplastics altogether but it's got to be a little better so silicone is a type of plastic which is usually very confusing for a lot of people and they argue with me that it is not but it is a type of plastic it's just different type of plastic it's not made at for example all the conventional plastic that we're talking about they are oil-based right they're petrochemicals when it comes to silicone it's not so in that terms I would say it's better it still releases microplastics because it's a type of plastic and everything releases small particles even metal can release very very small particles like you cannot see them so the silicone does as well and I would say that these microplastics are way different than the microplastics from conventional plastics I cannot say how better is that because then we need to do more research and see and actually compare and the comparison for that is like I couldn't find a lot like even when you try to google is silicone plastic you will see so many websites misleading and telling you that silicone is not plastic while technically it is so it's very difficult and not a lot of people researched silicone as well and compared it especially the microplastic from silicone so there are like five papers maybe in total or at least that's what I could find so it's difficult to say to what extent it's better but I think it should be better at least from the material it's made it's it's not petrochemicals it's not oil so it's not a hundred percent but it is better than plastic obviously yeah it's just I don't know yeah guys it is finally here our mother say sale this is only only one of two sales that we run every single year. And it's finally here. I'm so excited to share it with you. You can now get $150 off of your lifetime membership to the birth lounge. We run sales at Black Friday and Mother's Day. And that is it. May 4th through May 11th. Use code Mama150. That's M-A-M-A-150. Model 150 to say mega time on your lifetime membership of the birth lounge. Let me give you a little rundown about what makes the birth lounge so special. It is literally unhinged. It is like nothing else you're gonna find out there on the market. And that is the way that we are able to have the results that we have. We have people that literally walk away with absolutely zero birth trauma. And they achieve all of their birth goals. And they have no tearing. And the best one yet is that we have just a 3% C-section rate. Yeah, I am able to help you truly go into the hospital system. Navigate the conversations with your provider. Stay in control from start to finish and avoid unwanted interventions and unnecessary things like an unnecessary C-section or an unnecessary induction. So how can this be? Well, I'm teaching you the control method, which is going to help you understand all of the aspects of labor that are within your control. And then we're gonna teach you how do you control them? The problem that I find with a lot of traditional childbirth ed classes is that they just teach you your options. They say, well, you can have this or you can have that. And these are what your options are. But then when you get in the hospital system, you find that you're getting pushed back from staff or you are feeling like you don't really have those options or maybe you're feeling pressured and you don't know how to navigate those conversations. That's exactly what I teach you how to do. I'm deconstructing all of those barriers, those road bumps, those things that hold you up from actually achieving your goals because just knowing your options is not enough. The birth lounge is a comprehensive course. So when you go with the birth lounge, you will not need any other form of preparation when it comes to preparing for your birth. Inside the birth lounge, you are gonna learn stages of labor that ends and outs of navigating the hospital system. How to engage in respectful collaborative conversation with your medical team, pain relief options, labor positions, pushing positions, how to reduce tearing, how do you avoid things like induction, C-section, and unnecessary interventions. And finally, how do you advocate for your goal so that you can say yes to the things that matter to you? You can request alternatives when that's appropriate and you can decline things that don't feel good to you. Plus, in the lifetime membership, you're gonna get free access to our dad days course, which is a comprehensive course made for male partners to help them understand how can they best support you in pregnancy? What is their role in labor and delivery? How do they advocate for you? How can they keep you comfortable and provide pain relief during the birth experience? And then finally, what is their role in postpartum? And how do they help you navigate this new space of becoming a mom in the best way possible? You're also going to get access for free for our secret sauce to pushing. This is where I teach you how to achieve those results I talked about in the beginning, avoiding tearing and really understanding what muscles to engage to properly push your baby out. First of all, your pelvic floor does not push your baby out. That lady needs to yield out of the waist. So what muscles do you use? That's exactly what I'm teaching you in the secret sauce to pushing. And yes, I'm teaching you how to push with an epidural and without an epidural. Don't worry, I don't really care how you birth your baby. I want you to be equipped no matter what pops up in your labor because this is your birth. I want you to choose how you want to do it. My job is to make sure that no matter what choice you make, you feel empowered in doing that. You're also going to get one of my number one downloads, which is our scripts for advocacy. This is an entire packet of the most common conversations that you're going to face in labor and in the end of pregnancy that often start you down this slippery slope of handing over your control. Not only do I provide you with the evidence to have these conversations, but I'm actually given you the words to have these conversations, i.e. the scripts for advocacy. In addition to that, you're going to get all of my PDF guides partner guides, epidural guides, induction cheat sheets, and my brand new birthing your big ass baby course where I step you through the actual data of truly evaluating whether your baby is going to be quote unquote, "big or not." What does ACOG say? What does the AAP say? And what are the true medical recommendations when it comes to suspected macrosomia, i.e. a big baby? I think you might be surprised to learn that less than one percent of all babies in the US are born truly meeting the criteria for macrosomia. So why are inductions in C-section so common? Well, that's exactly what I'm teaching you in the birthing your big ass baby course and I'm going to teach you how you can decline those if they don't feel aligned to you. And finally, probably my favorite perk of the lifetime membership is you get a box that is hand picked by me curated to help you have your best birth possible. This is a birth box that includes all of my favorite things, not only that I have used for the last 10 years to help women achieve their best birth, but the same tools that I'm using in my own birth, things like a tens unit, a ribozo, a comb for pain relief, self care items, breast feeding items, and so much more. One of my favorite things is actually the fuzzy socks. I love them, they're so soft. Oh my gosh, this box is packed with goodies. It's worth over $150 and I'm sending it to you because I want you to be equipped to have the absolute most glorious and joyous birth experience that you possibly can. And I know that you can't do that without having the proper tools. And so not only do I teach you how to use those in the birth lounge, but I'm gifting them to you because I want them to be part of your birth bag. So through May 11th, you will be able to take advantage of our lifetime membership and $150 off. That's M-A-M-A-1-5-0. Do not miss out on this. If you miss this sale, you'll have to wait till black Friday. I genuinely cannot wait to help you have your best birth possible. I'll see you in the lounge. Bye. Okay, and one of the things I think that struck me as a mom that I learned from you is that wet wipes or baby wipes have microplastics in them. Which is so terrifying, right? You have this brand new newborn. You have this little baby who is so pure and unfortunately they probably have microplastics in them just because of our lifestyles. We know that they're found in the placenta and cord blood and all that jazz, but we want to do better for our babies. We want to be managing and controlling the amount of microplastics that we do allow to come in contact with their body. What do we need to know about baby wipes and are there better alternatives? Should we be making our own baby wipes at home in order to avoid microplastics? So the thing was baby simplistic. It's so sad because babies are exposed to even more microplastics, especially when you see a baby food is usually either prepared in plastic or they're consuming from plastic. All the baby cutlery is made out of plastic. Yeah, same with clothing and so on. And for example, again, circling back to the racks if they're made out of plastic, which is usually the case and you put your baby to this racks and they again put everything to their mouth. So they are disproportionately exposed to microplastics and that's very sad. And when we talk about baby wipes, yeah, they are made out of plastic because again, if it was paper, it would dissolve. And if it was cotton, it would be very more expensive. But when I made this video about baby wipes, I think there were several people commenting that they could find some plastic free. wipes, wet wipes on the internet. Yeah, I myself didn't Google that because I don't have a baby and I don't have a huge need in wet wipes. So that wasn't interesting for me, but I think you can find some alternatives or of course there's not a lot, but I think you can find something. Maybe also as you said like DIYing could be yeah, another thing to do, but maybe baby wipes is not the biggest source of microplastics. I would say it's still everything that goes around food, you know. Oh yeah, so you think it's all, it's more important to prioritize maybe baby bottles. And again, to your point of heating it up, we're heating up baby bottles. So if you can opt for glass, opt for glass baby bottles instead of plastic and pacifiers are silicone nipples. So that's kind of hard. Maybe stainless steel plates and cups and utensils. Yeah, yeah. And it's better than glass because glass then can can break, which is also quite dangerous, right? So maybe like metals or wood. Okay. Yeah, wood. When I think about the toys that we registered for, a lot of them were wooden. And I was really sure to make sure that it wasn't engineered wood, but true, like truly wood, real wood instead of engineered wood, because engineered wood obviously is synthetic. And it has a lot of I assume microplastics, and if not microplastics, definitely a lot of chemicals in the processing part of it. Yeah. I would also say that it's important to see PFAS, even though it's really hard to find. But if if something is covered, it's treated with PFAS, it's also important that your kids are not exposed to PFAS because they're more susceptible to hormone disruptors than us. I do have some researchers who have kids and they try to avoid PFAS, like my colleagues, my friends. So I would say it's important as well. We'd be more important than plastic itself. Oh, really? Yeah. I would think so. Because it's forever and microplastics can eventually be kind of pushed out of your body, or how come you're saying it's more important? I would say because PFAS is more proven to cause problems. Yeah. Like in the current disruptions. And for microplastics, it's still unclear. Yeah. I mean, if it's possible, of course, both should be avoided, taken precautionary methods. But if it's, it depends on the type of plastic as well. For example, if it's a bioplastic, it could be a bit better. And when you talk about avoiding PFAS, what type of things does that mean avoiding? It could be different clothing that is treated with PFAS, especially those that are water repellent. I mean, PFAS is usually the thing that repels water. Okay. So that's why, for example, the nonstick pants are treated with PFAS clothing like, you know, outdoor clothing, they are treated with PFAS. For example, in my lab, where I work right now, we buy specific jackets that are not treated with PFAS, because we also do tests for PFAS. So it is possible to find those. It's getting possible. It's difficult, but not impossible. Yeah. Yeah. I think maybe it could be like, yeah, different clothing shoes. And some toys. Some toys can be treated with PFAS sometimes. Yeah. Ash, if you are looking for a guide for a low-tox baby registry, I spent several months building my own registry. And I put it into a guide. I'll link that in the show notes for you guys so that you can download that and hopefully get a good starting point on your own baby registry for low-tox things. Some things are not, some things are really difficult. Like car seats, they are required to have flame retardants on them per the laws around car seats. So that one is really hard, right? Things like baby mattresses, there are very few companies that make high quality, got certified, organic cotton, baby mattresses, things like that. But I did, I have a guide and I'll link that for you guys. Okay, so done. And the next thing I kind of wanted to talk about was period products, because as women, obviously every month, we want to reduce the amount of microplastics that we are putting in one of our most sensitive regions on our bodies. What should we know about pads and tampons and menstrual cups? Yeah, that's also a very good question. A lot of period pads, again, it's not made out of paper because if it was paper, it would dissolve. So most of the times, they're made out of synthetic materials, polyester again, or polytylene sometimes as well. So we're talking about period pads, some tampons as well, could be made out of plastic. And especially when it comes to tampons, and yeah, we're putting in the most intimate area. And as I said, again, there are some plastic associated chemicals that are also in the renders raptors. So this could be a very, yeah, challenging tricky situation. So I also try to say to people to women that they try to find plastic free alternatives when possible. And there are some good alternatives, like cotton pads that are more expensive, but they're also reusable period pads. I understand that it's not like ideal. It's not very convenient, but it's cheaper, and it's also plastic free, because you can find some that are made out of cotton, 100% cotton, but it's also more sustainable for the planet, because then you don't have this huge amount of plastic that you use for yeah, every month, and you just dispose of it every time. And I would say that menstrual cups are a good alternative as well. And even though it's made out of silicone, I would say it's still better than putting like petrochemical plastic. Yeah. In fact, your body, yeah. I think that, you know, I keep going back to it to microplastics being in the placenta and the cord blood, but if we think about how we're treating our, you know, female organs every month, it makes sense that there would be microplastics kind of congregated in our uterine area, or our pelvic region, especially if month after month, there'd be an expose to PFAS and bleach in certain period products and these microplastics. So just, you know, I agree with you that reusable is not convenient and that for some people, it's going to be a really big lifestyle adjustment, but if you think about long-term help, especially if you're trying to conceive or you're thinking about expanding your family anytime soon, think about making these shifts. Now with that, I think I have the question about once there's microplastics in our body, do we have any research or knowledge about getting these microplastics out of our body? So for example, you know, they say you need sperm health, you want to kind of think about sperm health three to six months before you try to conceive. Do we see that same thing with microplastics in our body that we need a certain amount of time to kind of filter them through our bodies? Yeah, actually, I mean, there's not a lot of research about that again, but there was some research that I was done on fish and I understand that fish and humans are very different, but they could see that when they put fish into the clean water that is free more or less from microplastics, that in some amount of days that I remember exactly maybe in the month or so, they decreased the amount of microplastic in their bodies by 70%. Wow, okay. So I understand we're not fish, of course, but I would say that our body is capable of filtering all those things out as well, as long as we're not exposed to huge amounts of microplastics. We're still going to be exposed, of course, because plastic is already a huge huge part of our lives, but if we start to remove it slowly, step by step, our body will be capable of removing microplastics as long as we are reducing the exposure, which is actually very good. And on another side of this topic, I saw a lot of biohacking tips on how to remove microplastics, which I don't believe in. I don't think like going to sauna or donating blood for removing microplastics is really efficient and good. Or for example, if you heard the news, I think it was last year when and Orlando Bloom, I think, did, like, blood cleansing to remove microplastics and something like this. And he spent, like, so many thousands of dollars to do this treatment. And I think that this is so unnecessary, especially when it comes to microplastic, because yeah, you will remove them. And then if you don't do any changes to your lifestyle, you will just get exposed to the same amount of microplastic and you will just get the same amount of microplastic in, like, a couple of weeks. I think it's more important to remove, like, plastic as a source in the first place, rather than going for this, you know, quick tips, quick hacks to do, to remove microplastics. - So think more sustainable long-term lifestyle of reducing your overall exposure and then trusting that your body can kind of handle the low-level exposure that we almost can't get rid of, like, we can't stop breathing air outside. So we are going to be exposed to some microplastics, right? We can't, unless you're just never gonna take takeout, you aren't gonna not have your food in some plastic, but what you can do is when you get home, take it from the takeout container and put it into a glass jar or a glass container in your home by the natural fibers. And then again, something that I learned from you, I've learned so much, I continue to say that, but I have literally learned so much from your Instagram. You are a big proponent of washing your clothes less. Tell us-- - Yeah, yeah, that is not a very good thing to hear about myself. But yeah, there is also research about, like, washing clothing and washing machines are one of the biggest sources of microplastics in the environment, actually. So there are three things, first is car tires, because car tires are actually made out of microplastics and they are not filtered in the rain basins, and they directly discharge into our environment. Second is food packaging, because there's a lot of food packaging and most of it is made out of plastic. Like, if you go to the supermarket, you'll see everything is covered in plastic and third is definitely clothing and textiles. Because around 70% of all clothing nowadays is made out of plastic from synthetic materials. And yeah, and washing machines can be one of the biggest sources of microplastics in the environment, because every time you wash your synthetic clothing, it gets into contact with hot water. There's a lot of movement there, a lot of physical abrasions and so on. And they will release a lot of microplastics. I don't remember the numbers exactly. It was something like per one load, there were six million microplastics, if I remember correctly, or something in that range, just one load of synthetic clothing. So yeah, I always advocate for trying to reduce your frequency of washing if it's possible. Because if you air dry your clothing, for example, it gets a bit better so you can extend the wear of your clothing. - That's a good idea. And hey, I don't think any mom listening is gonna be like, oh no, Donna's gonna wash less. Like do less laundry. No, Donna, I feel like everyone's like, yes, Donna, less laundry, woohoo. So this is, that's perfect. That's so great for all the moms listening. The other thing that I found really, really interesting is a way to support your gut health with filtering out the microplastics by eating fermented food because of the probiotics. - Yeah, that's one of the only biohags that I'm talking about. Because there is some research that says that fermented food. In general, it helps your gut health and it's good, even without microplastics, but there was some research and they saw that fermented foods like yogurt, kimchi, they can actually, they cannot remove microplastics from your gut, but at least they can detoxify your microplastics. So all those toxins and chemicals on top of the microplastic that can be potentially bad for your gut, those fermented foods can help to try and detoxify that. Which is good? - Yeah, that's good. Okay, I think my last question is, we've talked about lifestyle changes. We've talked about change in your clothing and the things in your kitchen and your period products and being mindful about what you use around your baby. What about our long-term footprint? How would someone go about reducing their microplastic footprint, thinking kind of their whole lifespan? How, what would that look like? - I would say removing plastic in your life as much as possible in general, yeah. But I would say it's also very important for us to advocate for regulations and to put cop on plastic production because it's not only the overconsumption issue but also the overproduction issue and they go hand in hand unfortunately. And we need to also pressure that side. So not all the blame and all the pressure is on us because there's also a huge amount of blame on their side on the industries that are creating so much plastic and make us plastic dependent. So much that we cannot find a lot of plastic for alternatives. So it's also very important to pressure that side for regulation. I also always mention and advocate for regulation on wastewater treatment plans because as I said, any amount of microplastic can be discharged which is still crazy to me and that could be anywhere in the world. Like not a single country has a regulation on how much microplastics can be discharged into the environment. Yes, yes. So you are basically allowed to release as much microplastic as it's possible and you will not be fined or monitored. And I always tell this on my social media because it's very important that we also have some regulations on that, regulations on water. So our water that also comes to us that we drink should be also regulated for microplastics and filtered for microplastics. Yeah, I think that those two things are important. So advocating for regulations and trying to remove plastics in your life where it's possible. Are these industries choosing to use plastic so prominently because it is so much cheaper? Is that why? Yeah, that is one of the reason it's cheap. It's also very accessible. And oil, there's a lot of subsidies on oil as well. And I would say that plastic is also versatile material. So it's very easy to create anything out of plastic which makes it very convenient and not to make plastic too much demonized because there are some very good sites to plastics as well because it helped medicine and science progress a lot. I mean, you wouldn't want to have a reusable needle, not the needle but reusable syringe. Yeah, like it wouldn't be ideal, right? To have one syringe used like among hundreds of people. So it's really nice that I have those disposable syringes, for example, and this is just an example. And science also progressed a lot because of plastic, a lot of materials became cheaper and more accessible even to those slabs that don't have a lot of budget. So there are some good things about plastics as well. It's just the problem with again, over consumption and over production and plastic in those areas where we don't actually need plastic, like again, plastic clothing or plastic cutlery. Or food containers could very easily be made out of cotton or wood or anything like that. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, cool. This has been a really fascinating conversation, a little harrowing, and I gotta be honest, I don't think I realized how much plastic was in our life. I thought I had done a really good job, and I do think that I've done a really good job, but I still have more room to grow around their home, especially considering we have a newborn in our home, and we will eventually have more children, so I definitely have room to grow. And you guys, if you're listening and you're feeling overwhelmed, just know that I'm on year five of this journey. I started this journey four years ago, and so it is something that you do day by day. And like I say, as you use up some products or as you get rid of something, just buy better the next time. Don't try and take this on all at once. It will be too overwhelming and you just won't do it. So just do it in small increments. Okay, Donna, you have created a really cool app that will help people identify and find microplastics. Tell us about that. - Yeah, we created the Microplastic Free app where you can learn about microplastics more. There are some educational lessons that I wrote myself is the help of other microplastic researchers, so you can learn what are microplastics in general, what are the types of microplastics and so on. And there is also a scanner feature with which you can take pictures of different products, so we have scanner for food products, for Closing. clothing, tax, and for personal care products, ingredient lists. So you can take a picture and it will tell you the microplastic risk score. It's based on different research papers that we tried to put inside of this scanner. And there's also a petition feature. We only have two petitions there, but it's also nice if you will, we'll sign that because it's important. It's about other regulations on microplastics. And we try to make it as accessible as possible. So most of it is free. Only this scanner feature is paid. But even then you have like one scan daily for free, I think. Oh yeah, cool. That is so awesome. I know that microplastics are on everybody's mind, especially in my audience where so many of us are pregnant or trying to conceive or we are newly postpartum and now learning how to protect our newborns and our babies from microplastics. So this was really, really fascinating. If people wanted to learn further from you, work with you, or learn about the research that you're doing, where can people connect with you? Definitely Instagram or TikTok. My name there is Danke Jeb, but you will also link it, I think, right? And also, LinkedIn, my name there is Dana Jeb, we can learn ourselves. We can learn ourselves. Yes. But yeah, this are the main talk forms I use. Well, thank you so much, Donna, for being here and you guys. I hope that this was a really interesting conversation. I know that many of you have come to me asking about education around microplastics. I know that it is on your mind. I know that creating a low-talks home is really important to so many of you as it is to me as well. I know that we want the best for our babies and the more that we learn about the things that are in our environment that may be harmful to us and our family's long term. The more these things are going to be on our mind. And you know what I say? The more that we talk about these things, the more commonplace that they will become. And hopefully we can start to see our government agencies start to support these efforts as well. All right, you guys. I will see you in the next episode. Be sure to follow Donna on social media. And you can find me at Tranquility by Heehee and at the.birth.lounge. And until next time, head to your app store and download the birth launch app for evidence-based childbirth education and data-driven postpartum support delivered straight to your phone. Bye. Thank you so much for tuning in today. I love hanging out with you. And it is an honor to be your go-to gal when it comes to preparing for your baby. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please leave a five star review until others why they should be listening to the birth launch podcast too. You deserve to have a birth that you love with the provider that values your autonomy and respects informed consent without all the trauma that you so commonly hear about on social media. New episodes air every Wednesday and Friday. Hit that follow button so you never miss an episode. I'm Heehee, and this is the birth launch podcast. (upbeat music)