Ep. 439 • Unlock the Data Behind the Beauty Industry w/Alain Audet

when I said earlier in this episode that people are creative every single week, 3000 new service names are created. Hey, I'm Ray Christopher. It's Gina Bianca, Ashley Norman here. Hey everybody, Gordon Miller. Welcome to the Hair Game Podcast. (upbeat music) Hey everybody, it's Harry here, producer of the Hair Game Podcast. We have some very exciting information. Salon Republic just opened a brand new location in Philadelphia our first ever East Coast location. You can go to salonrepublic.com to book your space and find your new home. A little bit later, we'll have a new location in Jankin Town, a little north of Philadelphia. Go to salonrepublic.com and get notified and we're gonna be beginning to ours. Now on to our episode with a late update. So, I was born Eric DiJacamo. I have an Italian last name. I have an Italian side of my family on my dad's side and DiJacamo, those sounds are in the English language but it has the oddity of being spaced into two name, DI Space Capital G, right? And then the GIA, which is unusual in English. So I was called DiWacamo Le and DiJac Strap and all sorts of other derivations that were not fun when I was going through school. And it wasn't just the students who were calling me these things. The teachers who could not get DiJacamo out of their mind. So I imagine that your name gets butchered regularly and you're probably used to it. - I am. When I lived in Jakarta, my name became Alie and at some point. So, I can't get worse. - Very interesting. So you lived in Jakarta? I want to ask about that first. Why were you in Jakarta? - Well, first started by moving to Singapore to be the head of La Salle International Fashion School, the fashion merchandising program over there. After three years, they asked me to come back and to come back to Montreal and I decided that was cool. I wanted to stay over there. My international journey was not over. And that's when I started working for as a general manager for the general merchandiser. So heading to buying department for high-end fashion brands. So originally it was Prada. It was a George O'amani and brands like that. After two years there, then I actually switched company to handle more the Gucci world and the guest world in Jakarta. So I lived in Jakarta for a year and then they brought me back to Singapore for another year. Then I came back to Canada. So I was gone for seven years. - Wow, that's so cool. So Indonesia, Jakarta is an Indonesia and the only reason I know that is not because I'm particularly well educated, but only because I was a surfer for a great deal of my life. And Indonesia has just about the best waves in the world. And that took me through Singapore and my way to Indonesia and there's Bali and there's areas, there's these archipelagoes there that have just the most spectacular environments for waves. So I was there, I've been there a number of times. - Oh, right. - So that's really cool. All right, so for the audience, I typically do an introduction. You're the VP at Salon Interactive, but you have a nice long history in the beauty business. How did you get into the beauty business? - Well, it was like a three kind of three phases episode of getting me into beauty business. It started when I was 16 years old. I was a model for Clarell, I've one of those trade shows. So on stage, they actually colored my hair, purple, pink and yellow. And I had to do some aerobic dancing on stage and all that. So that's kind of like where I actually discovered the hair salon industry and especially the trade show market. Many years later. - You have, by the way, you have amazing hair. I think that your amazing hair has followed you around and probably created a reputation of sorts because it's so amazing. And for the listeners who are listening on their, in their cars or whatever, on their earbuds, you gotta go to YouTube to see Alay's amazing hair. - Thank you very much. Thank you. - I got a lot of compliment, but it's genetics. So, exactly. - No, I blow dry it. This is really what I do with it. So good haircuts and blow dry it. So, then after university, I wanted to be more creative. I wanted to continue working in a creative space and I decided to become a makeup artist. So I'm formally trained as a theater makeup artist, but there was no job in theater makeup artistry in Montreal and the working in department store for Shiseido as a department store makeup artist. And what a weekend a friend of mine was, we owned a hair salon, was like, "My assistant just flicked out on me and I've worked the whole day by myself." And I was like, "Well, I was all working yesterday, so next time it happens, call me." The next weekend he says, "Well, you just quit. Do you wanna come and help?" So from a makeup artist, I became an insolent trained colorist. So for a year and a half, that was my weekend job. My week job I was teaching marketing in fashion merchandising school and moved to Singapore. Like I said earlier, moved to Singapore, and came back to Canada and two years later, a job opened at Laureale and I launched Caristage in Canada. So from the beauty industry to the fashion industry, then back to the beauty industry. So since then, it's been ongoing the last 25 years I've been into professional beauty industry. And as I often say on the podcast, there's so many different places in the beauty industry to spend your time and your efforts. And you could work at the front desk of a salon, you can work behind the chair, you can work at a corporate entity, a small one, a big one, you can launch brands, you can do all sort of, you can do marketing for this and that. And so most of the guests on the podcast tend to be behind the chair hairdressers who've done really well. And we'd like to talk about best practices. But now and then I get somebody who has a lot of diversified experience in the beauty industry and you definitely qualify as one of those, especially with your experience with Laureale, biggest company in our industry. And you're doing all these really cool things. And now you're with Salon Interactive. Why don't you tell the audience who Salon Interactive is? - So Salon Interactive is multiple things. Because you can't answer that question in one sentence. So sorry about that, it's gonna take a few sentences to answer that. So Salon Interactive was originally created as an e-commerce solution that would be more like a software integrator. So this is to create four hair salons for stylists and it didn't in stylist, it e-commerce platform. So they would be able to create within seconds their own e-commerce. So they don't have with Salon Interactive, you actually create your e-commerce store. You don't have to ship the merchandise, you don't have to handle the shipping and handling and the customer relations. Because you actually choose the brands that you want to represent. You attach them to your distributor and you open up your store. You just get your consumers to go to your store. They place the orders, the goods are shipped directly to them and you get your commission. So this is where it all started. With this then it turned into more of that. So it actually allowed with the connection with the software platform, connection with the distributors, it allowed to go and start gathering data. And this is the second kind of bridge of where we are. So that's kind of like, I think what we're gonna be talking about a little bit more today, the Kim report. And the Kim report is only possible because of these partnerships with a different software platform and the fact that the salons are more and more using software platform for their booking and especially for their transactions. So all that together, there's a few other things in there. There's on-bf marketing as well that we're doing. So allowing manufacturers to support the traffic in salon traffic for retail transaction and services as well. So that's a way where the manufacturers are helping salons to grow their in salon business through marketing. So that's kind of like another aspect of what we're doing. And me at salon interactive, I focus on those two aspects. So the on-bf marketing and on the Kim report. But for both sides, it's more the relationship with the manufacturers and the relationship with the technology, not so much the relationship with the salon, which is like a bit of a shift for me because I was a salon and spa coach. I work with salons directly. I mean, as a sales rep, as a brand director, as a business coach, and also in technology, I work with software platforms directly with the salons as well. So it's kind of like an interesting shift in there. - So you've spent a good number of years frustrated that salons don't put more effort and don't care more about selling retail on site? - Well, when I first started, 'cause it was, like I said, care-science was a purely retail brand. So you're arriving in the salons and they don't know how to manage their inventory. They have no idea how to do consultation. I'm talking 25 years ago. And back then, the average retail to service was pretty much the same as it is today. So interestingly, 25 years later, the industry is not much better at it, even though it has way more tools to actually do it properly. But I think the biggest difference is now people are able to know what they're doing where back then they were guessing what they were doing So this is kind of like the big difference over the last year So it's more intentional now So if you really want to be strong at retailing you have all the tools to be strong If you don't want to be bothered with retailing same thing you don't have to be bothered Right, yeah, okay So the the Kim report is as you indicated something Else that salon interactive has gotten involved with and that is the primary reason why you and I know each other because I'm involved Yes, I'm what as an advisor of sorts to the Kim report with a group of other people and I think it's a really really cool thing And you know worthy of spending the time and worthy of the listeners spending their time listening to it Our industry historically as well I've always said that our industry seems really bad at two things one history It's not great at looking back at The way that we used to do things and kind of remembering and learning and all that and the other thing is data And I think it's been bad at data at least in the 25 years that I've been in the beauty industry has been bad at data because A lot of I mean the industry is heavily fragmented, you know across the landscape Let's say there's a million beauty professionals across the US that that's not too inaccurate So maybe I think some people say a million two some people say you know 900,000 active or whatever it's around there And a lot of the beauty professionals are Independence or they work for salons that don't collect data or Don't report data and there has not historically been Organizations that are good at it it consolidating, you know information in any substantive way Until now here we have the Kim report, okay Kim stands for key industry metrics. This is something that is used in the corporate world as You know an indication of things that are important to keep your eyes on and that's that's why it's called the Kim report And it's not developed by a guy or a lady named Kim and It is collecting data in a way that is better than I have ever seen in my 25 years and for those who've been in the industry longer Better than we've ever done before that so Explain you already described it a little bit, but go into a little bit more depth about Just how broad the the data collection is and and what it's good for and who it's best for yeah Well, I think just to go back a little bit the Why this is so unique You said fragmented so to start with it It's an industry of individual business owners most of the business is independent salons or independent stylists So to start with there is many many many many operators That's like problem number one Problem number two is that even if you're saying okay, well, yes data is available out there There's multitude of software out there So you have maybe 30 major software platform and each software platform as a slightly different way of collecting data And on top of that every individual salon ends up being pretty much responsible of creating their own menu their own price point their own up service description and entering as well their own products So all of that makes it that every single salon Has something different than the other just the way that they spell something the way that they decide that they doing Balayage versus Foliage versus whatever naming strategy that they decide or convention that they create for themselves and then after that you have the coaching groups that came in there and created levels created different payment structure created different naming for the stylist at different you know where they are in their career different payment systems team based commissions salary bonus Independence all of that put together. So it's extremely fragmented and Plus there's gray market. So there's information Some businesses don't actually collect the data on all their transactions by choice, okay? And so meaning the information that you have it's very hard to know how much of it is entirely true So when you put all that together now it's like okay, what do we want to know? So to start with salon interactive had to when creating the Kim report you had to have the right partners So and this is impossible if you don't have software platform You can have just one partner because then the information you have it will be biased because each of those 30 or so Salon software out there or POS Platforms would have a tendency to have a niche in the market. They are better for solos. They're better for small businesses. They're better for Hybrid salons or they're better for more luxurious salons. So each of them have their own positioning and Their technology is also different. So you can I'll just say okay, well we all get the same data set It's different technology salon interactive started working with Square rosy forest in vision aura inspired that people may know as a STX So these kind of like the founding partners of salon interactive to create the Kim report because that's the only way we needed to have partners in there with all of those people We end up having access or the visibility of about 70,000 businesses So but when I say visibility is like we as salon interactive never have access to a single salon Location first we don't know the report is completely upfuscated and completely anonymized. So all we know is there's a salon that has Seven stylists for example that has been in operation for more than 24 months with the same software platform and this salon for us is salon 12345 And we know this salon 12345 just appears in our data every month And then salon 45678 and like that we have 10,785 salons that we currently track on a monthly basis So that's kind of like where the information is coming from and putting all that information coming from different platforms and trying to centralize all of this and normalize that information eliminating outliers like the $6,000 hairdresser's per services or the $9.99 Haircuts as well. So like the extremes are actually removed So we are making sure that we have a data set that is Consistent and that is representative and that is also that has a proper amount of history in there So there's no fluctuation of like a brand new salon or salon that just switch platform and have like all these new appointments that are being transformed into a transfer into a new platform So this is kind of like what we're trying to control Okay, so so you've got all this information you've done A really good job of trying to standardize the information as well as possible as you described earlier It's one of the challenges has been the non-standard Element of the industry And you've so you've tried to standardize it and you've tried to get consistent data over time And so you have this data set and now what are you doing with it? Like what is What is the benefit of the Kim report to to someone? Well, because we don't know we all look at Every month your interested is okay. What is the inflation rate? What's the difference between inflation for cars or in the grocery stores? We all look at affordability. We're all interested by data by numbers by statistics Salon industry is exact same. So manufacturers have their own numbers. They know what they're selling They know what they're selling to the distributors or they know what they're selling direct So they have a pulse and their pulse is just an output of merchandise that's going out there What they don't know is what happens to that merchandise until months afterwards where they don't have a reorder So they just know oh this is not performing or this is there's a issue with this category of products or this type of services Because at some point it stops performing or at some point it overperformed and they haven't planned for this So it's just like it's a surprise every time So everybody is looking at how can we tighten this and how can we get a pulse like a constant pulse or regular pulse of the market? So looking at the industry in terms of sales overall sales Overall services the client visits the number of clients and number of visits the number of Services altogether color services Retail performance the staffing so how many people are actually working in the industry? So that type of information people are interested the manufacturers of distributors They want to know this because then they are able to follow and the Kim report is doing this for the first time ever in anyone is doing anything We are able to do this every single month Gapsid your schedule clients who don't rebook tight margins and high payment processing fees sound familiar You'd love to be making more money but you just don't have time to sit down and figure that out. Let alone sit down to eat lunch. That's why we love gloss genius, the system that actually does the work for you. It runs in the background to fill your calendar and automatically handles your admin, all without adding a single thing to your plate. 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So just this week, last Friday, we reported on January. So within couple weeks, they actually know what January did in the salon. So we know, for example, that January was not that good this year was not as good as last year, a little bit was of course really bad versus December. That's normal. I mean, this is the usual. But this year was not. Exactly. Seasonal. Seasonal seasonalities and the normal. And then when you look at a month, is it because there was an extra Saturday? Is it because there was one last Saturday? That's one of the reason we know January this year was not as good this January last year is where new years fail. So people lost a weekend. The first weekend of the year, many people were closed. So now suddenly, you're a whole month has lost a Saturday. That is enough to make a big difference in their revenue. So this is the type of data that allows to explain some of the numbers. Why was January lower? Oh, because of new years being on a Friday, you know, something like that. So this is kind of a explanation. Same thing last year me, why was made better than the May before? What happened in North America to justify this? It was five Saturdays, five Thursdays, five Friday, five Saturdays. So five of the biggest ticket days versus the year before where one of the three only had four. So just that made a difference of three percent in revenue. When you multiply that by 220,000 independent salons, a one percent is millions of dollars. And the industry is looking at this. So for a manufacturer, my color business is down by three percent, for example, a my and outlier is my business down the rest of the industry is down also. Am I as bad as the others? Am I better than the others? Am I in a different trend? Am I I'm growing the other one are all? So this is the type of numbers that the industry is interested to have as quickly as possible. So this is where the Kim is unique in a way. Everybody wants to know if the numbers are disappointing, if they're doing something wrong. Was it my advertising? Is it my packaging? Am I not resonating with my customer? And yeah, and am I losing market share to somebody else who's doing something else? And it's very, very powerful to companies. Does it have a benefit? Is this something that an individual hairstylist would care about? Yes, because, well, it's, I would say yes and no. Yes, it's very important for an individual hairstylist because in the Kim report, we look at five different cohorts plus an all salon average. So we look at the one to service provider cohort, which is equivalent at 70 80 percent, I would say, is single operators. So it's, there are solos and because the average is 1.1 service providers in our cohort of one and two. Then we have the three, four, five, nine, 10, 19 and 20 plus. So and you're looking at each of those cohorts, they actually move differently from one month to the other. You know, the one to has less seasonality. When you're looking at the quarters, because that's another way we're looking at it, if we're looking at the first, second, third and fourth quarters, all the other cohorts, the second and the fourth quarter are, so spring and fall to winter. So those two quarters are by far stronger. Okay. And of course, the fourth quarter is number one, the second quarter is number two. Then it's quarter, the third quarter, then the fourth quarter solos, it's almost equal. All four quarters, it's dollars, difference of dollars. So something is different in the way to manage their calendar, you know, because of the, they go on vacation automatically if they take a week off every quarter, or just because of their clientele, they know what the seasonality is and they can manage. It's easier, it's me alone. I manage my calendar. So when I'm not available, I'm not available, when I compensate for it, when I need to and all that, where other businesses have this spillover or have these seasonal impacts where people are only in the market twice a year, for example, they're only coming for during the graduation wedding season in May, June, and they're coming back for the holidays. A lot of people, especially younger sector, you know, and there are a lot of this may be last minute appointments as well. So because you have more capacity, you end up filling it up at the last minute. And those, that type of client is less likely to go to have a relationship with an individual beauty professional and independent beauty professional versus going to the salon on the corner of main and main street that might have a larger staff like 20, you know, hairdressers in there. Yeah, the last minute client is more likely to be googling salon near me, you know, then looking for Sophie because this is Sophie is the one that does that has been doing their hair for 20 years, you know, so and it's Sophie is your hairdresser. The chances are that you pre-book, you know, in advance, you know, when because you know how busy Sophie is and you know how your schedule is and you've managed to figure out the time that works for both of you, you want that time. So you'll make sure to do book it. But if you're more a convenience client, it's who's available when I'm ready for my service. Right. Very, very interesting. And let's talk about product sales. How, what is the Kim report telling us about product sales? That third year in a row sales are down. You know, so retail sales are down. The product value, the dollar value is up a tiny bit. So this is following inflation. So a dollar or two. So it's between 35 to 39 dollars, the average retail transaction per product. So that's what we see. But it's down by five to 15 percent depending of the cohort. And this is for the whole year 2025. And it's a second or a third year in a row that we see an erosion of that revenue source for Miss Alon. Important to note here, I'm going to wear both hats here. Important to note that this is the Kim report. It's all about the transaction that happens physically at the salon or not tracking online sales. So some of the salons may have their own online store. They may have an affiliate program with a manufacturer or distributor or they may be with salon interactive on our e-commerce platform. So they may have shifted that revenue or those transactions somewhere else. I'm not able to track this. Kim report, like I said, because we are, it's anonymized. We don't know that I've come back to Sophie. I don't know that Sophie because I don't know it's Sophie. I just know there's a hairdresser and I don't know that this hairdresser has also a e-commerce platform. So it could just be a shift in in behavior. Client behavior, beauty professional purchasing behavior. Yeah. And this is where it'd be interesting to be able to correlate some of those data set together to try to figure out overall the industry because yes, at salon level, it's down. But then the e-commerce platform, the affiliate programs or the distributor, the affiliate or white label of the white label kind of platforms. The total is whatever it is and maybe we're self-flat or maybe we are growing. That is the part that we're hoping to be able to bridge in the next year or two with more collaboration with more platform and more organizations. I think one of the really interesting parts of the Kim report that an independent beauty professional, any beauty professional employed, whatever would be interested in is to see the change in service pricing over the last two or three years. What are we seeing with service pricing? And this is again, this is anonymized. This is across the board. There's an average and there's a median, but basically just consider it at the average price of a service. All services blended together. I mean, there is actually, we do separate color and all, don't we? Yes. Yes. Okay. So what is happening with pricing with all? over the last year. Pricing with all the average price transaction has gone up by about 2.8% across the industry. Looking at inflation rate, inflation rate about 2.6%. So somehow the salons have managed to maintain their price points or maintaining their costs as well. So this is like one upside, I would say, of the industry. Then when you look at the color services, the same thing, the prices have gone up not as much, but they've gone up a little bit. And the average other services, because you know, looking at if the overall envelope is bigger, but color is not making all of this. So what we know, there's other services that have the prices have gone up, a little bit more than color. So maybe haircuts or the people are managing to add other high value services or could be bonding treatments. We don't know what they are exactly, but we just know that there is a bigger increase in the non-color services than there is for the color services. But both are, there's an increase in there. Why the industry is flat or negative in some cases is that there is less customers going to salon and they've dropped also the number of visits. So what we see is less clients overall in the salon and less visits both for all services and for color as well. So salons have to make the same amount of money with less people. So even though they manage to compensate by increasing their prices, the biggest issue is that people are spacing their appointments or are actually not going to their hair salon as much as they used to or not going to the salon at all. Now recent changes the addition to a median number as well as an average and explain the difference between that. You don't have to go into it very in depth. But primarily I want to hear you describe the what you learn from the difference between an average and a median. So this is the first month and by the time people listen to this it is going to be a few months in there. But now as we're talking this is the first month that we're looking at the median and we look now back into the last year. So even though like I said at the beginning even though we are removing the outliers, what happens is very easy to remove the very big outliers on top of the line because those are very obvious. The very low ones, I mean when there's 4,000 salons in one average or 4,000, it's almost 6,000 individuals, you know, a lot of those would be at the bottom in terms of their average price point and everything. So an average would take the whole set and divided by the quantity there is in there. So it still has to attend and see in our data set. Attendance see to over index the numbers if you're looking at what is the middle ground of the industry. Median gives you the middle ground. So if you have 6,000 salons, it'll give you number 3000. So this is the one in the middle of everything. So that's my median where the average takes everybody and makes the average. So sometimes you want the average because that's the number that is used for statistic reason. This is the number that government are really looking for. But sometimes you want to look at the median because you want to know where am I in the rankings. So what percentile am I into the industry? So this is kind of like giving two different set of or two different lenses, I would say. So different set of glasses to look at the same numbers or the same data set, but having different response knowing that it's the same data that we analyze. So we were a little bit surprised ourselves when we saw the median result versus the average. So now we're trying to and at the same time if you're looking at 20 plus salons, the numbers are almost the same. There's very little differences. The 10 to 19 service providers, the number was a little bit the median would be maybe 34% lower than we had on the average. But the smaller the salon was, the wider the gap was between the average and the median. So that's kind of something we were not expecting. And what explains that? Like I said earlier, the fact that if we have 6,000, there's 3,000 of them that would be pretty much the same size if you want. But there's a few that are over performers because they work more hours before they charge a little bit more. Then you see, for example, on the average for a solo, we have something like I think it's 18 appointments, 18 hours per week. This is what we assume is the average. But when you look at the median, maybe it's more 22. So it's hard to because there may be a lot of people that are working only or seeing only 6, 8, 10 clients per week versus a few that are in the 3040. So those will be pulling the average up. Yeah. So this is all so awesome. And I guess you don't really have to be a data want to appreciate the value of this. So how does one get their hands on the Kim report? What for the salons are objective is that the salons never have to pay to access information of the Kim report. Okay. But at the same time, it's not necessary for salon to have access to the whole set of data because there's too much there for people to the average person to be looking into. And you're not interested in looking at everything you would really want to just look at who you are in the industry. So what we're doing is we're collaborating with different media platforms to be able to share that information. So one of which is every month, if you're a member of the PBA, if you receive the monthly PBA email or newsletter. So once a month in collaboration with pivot point that are doing one of business sentiment survey, the second part of that email, there's some data about we divided in two information, the solos and the employees. So there's some of the data that actually appear in there. So on a monthly basis, we can re-nicate. It's usually about two months behind the information, just production of that newsletter and all that. So this is like one source. Starting in since March, the March issue, there's going to be every month. Some collaboration has went with salon today and modern salon. So information is going to be there as well. So there's more and more of that that's going to filter out to the salons. Our goal is at some point the salon will be able to say, okay, I'm a solo, I would like to have access to the solo data. So that will come with just not equipped to be able to answer to 220,000 salons at this point. We want to build towards that. Hopefully in 2027, that will be available. And if you're a larger company, a distributor or a manufacturer or somebody like that, how do they get it? So that's a subscription model. They pay to get access to that information. So subscription model and they contact the camera report to contact me. And we do a demo presentation, explain what they will get as information. And this is just the tip of the iceberg of the data that will be available. Because as we grow in just in this year, we are now the first quarter we will, so in April. So for this in April, we published for the first time the quarterly report of regionalization. So we broke down the country in six regions. And so now we're going to be able to look at Midwest, Southeast, Southwest, sorry, Northeast versus national versus one another. So looking at the same 13 metrics and looking also at the same cohorts, except the larger cohorts are collapsed into one. So that will be something. And then in the future, the salons, the the manufacturer will be able to track their products. So knowing that this is these cues are actually performing which way in salons. And services going to be the next thing. Services is the most complicated one. When I said earlier in this episode that people are creative, every single week, 3000 new service names are created. Every week, 3000 new service names are created. They're creative with the names. Wow, that's enough to make a data guy sweat. Exactly. So that's our Kim Insights project that we're working on helped with the AI. So if this so every time there's something new, we have to associate it with what it's most like what it what it is most likely based on how it appears into the data set. We have like a Victoria haircut. So somebody decided to call something a Victoria haircut. Who's Victoria? Is it the Victorian era? What does that even mean? Is that back him? So that's an example. So so that's a haircut. But is it so at least it's called a Victoria haircut. So we assume it's a haircut. You know, but that's the creativity in our industry. That is that creates data collection and reporting challenging. Okay, so where does somebody go if they want more information or if they want to subscribe or if they want to, you know, get the free version, so to speak. So it's called the Kim report. So the Kim report.com. So you come in there and you just actually click I want one information and you just fill up the form and you'll be added to our email database. If you're interested with the salon interactive e-commerce on behalf marketing or everything else that we have, it's it's different, different website. It's saloninteractive.com. So this is where you'll find it. And on social media, it's salon interactive on Facebook, actually not Facebook on Instagram and on LinkedIn. Amazing. Well, on behalf of the industry, LA, thank you so much for doing this work. It's highly, highly valuable and it's been a long time coming. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me inviting us to your podcast. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you all so much for joining us today. We absolutely love having you here at the Hair Game podcast and can't wait to see you in our next episode. See you then.