EP: 401 The Earth Before Adam: Satan's Fall, the Ancient Earth, and the End Game with Ryan Pitterson

Job, chapter 38, where we know definitively when God is speaking to Job and saying, "Where were you when he's literally talking about the physical creation of the earth?" And he says that the morning star sang for joy, the suns, the moon starts sang on the suns of God, shouted for joy. So we know the angels, the benahah, Elohim, witnessed the creation of the earth. So that means without a doubt they predate the earth. So right there we have a basis to know that angels have to proceed us if they were created before the earth. And if we have passages telling us that Lucifer was in Eden, in the Garden of God, in a righteous role that has to also be before we get to Adam and Eve, because he's already evil. He's already fallen. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to journey. The Smithsonian, and if they found out about large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right because if one person's right it must be paradise. It all goes back to the fallen chair and the problem with the modern day church, they had a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman of Eden. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, welcome back to Blurry Cretches. It's February. But we're going to go back to the beginning. We're going to go back to before Genesis, Genesis, and beyond and talk about the world before maybe, right? But you know, Blurry Cretches started with an unlikely combination, Luke, theology, and Bigfoot. That doesn't make sense. That doesn't go together. But you can do that. We got Ryan Peterson in the house who's attorney by day and Nephilim research for by night. Two things you wouldn't think go together, but we've made it work. You can too out there. So welcome to Blurry Cretches. Thanks for coming to our basement and hanging out with us and going back to the 80s. We're going to go back even further than that today. But we're excited. You're an author of the judgment of the Nephilim. We've had you on the show many times, the audio version, the Zoom version, the old school version. But here we are updated to an older version, but live in studio. So yes. Thank you for having you here. Thanks for coming back on. You got a new book in the works, right? Yes, I do. I do. It's called the Earth Before Adam. So this is I'm publicly dropping the name on Blurry Cretches. Oh, yeah. So it is. Is that considered pre-Genesis? Yeah, absolutely. So it deals with what's commonly known as the gap theory that is literally the civilization before the creation of Adam and Eve, which of course involves the angelic realm, the fall of Lucifer and all those things. Yeah, it might be a dumb question, but it's like, you know, I think sometimes people pull from Genesis to say that there's even there's more of a pre-story even happening in the Genesis account. But we're excited because we're going to do a couple rounds with you and get into all these details. So I don't even know where do you begin. Well, I just say this is this is also pretty special around because like, you know, Nate and I started this podcast and we talked about this often, but we started in our in our basements, if you will, and you know, we didn't have a website until 30 something episodes in it, but we found reached out to you because you wrote a book on the Nephilim. You've got two books, judgment and effort, and return of the Nephilim as you said, but it's been more than 200 episodes since we've had and it's I felt like we're so overdue and then we've got here in the studio. So it's really fun. Someone that like took a chance on a couple guys, you know, years ago, four or five years ago, it's just great to have you back and it's great to be back. I appreciate it. And I'm just so, so blown away by what God has done with this podcast and you guys are doing amazing work and to see how far much is growing now. I love this set, by the way. That's phenomenal. It's crazy. So the only thing we need here is a little linoleum. So I can get down, start doing some backpins. Oh really? Oh, yeah. Ben, let's get some. Let's lay it down out here in the front. Around this and dance. Great dancing. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I mean, so when did the last your last book is what three, four years old? Yes. So you know it's about, yeah, it's about been about four years almost. Yeah. So the new book is, as you said, is about the time before time. That's your third book. This is my third book. Let's go with the trilogy. Exactly. This is the trilogy. And I really wanted to just again, you know, I, I just go back to Genesis so often in my study. And I really wanted to unpack everything I think is happening in the original Luciferian rebellion. And so just to get started on it, you know, I wanted just to set the kind of the set the table for how I approach, how I'm approaching this in the book is I really want to deal with how God handles time. So in my second book, I spoke about that. It's not a little bit how time for God is not linear, you know, time for guys, I call it the scroll of time that God is repeating and recycling events over and over again to foreshadow prophecy. And I say, 46 God says the way you know that I am God, L, L, the most high God is because I'm the only one who can declare the end from the beginning and ancient things, things to come from ancient times. And so that's God's signature. And so how does that fit into this? I think that again, we can see that we can truly find in scripture what happened? How did Satan fall? How does he think he's going to win? How did this in this ancient rebellion before humanity was created? I think we can we can actually find the clues to that in scripture. I do love this rhyme because, you know, we just recently had an episode on the last two episodes time travel and Satan. I know. So this is like right. You're just like, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna mix all these things together and we're gonna, we're gonna get to go. Which is great because we're on that journey. You know, as a host, we're trying to take our listeners on the journey. And this is about learning. Absolutely. Yeah. And we close. Yeah. And we close and we're not the smartest guys. You're the, you bring the brain. So keep going. All right. All right. So yes, Ecclesiastes. Chapter one, nine to eleven, speaking of brains written by solemn, the smartest man to live before Jesus came to earth. Supernaturally blessed with intelligence. This is what he said. The thing that has been is that which shall be. And that which is done is that which is that which shall be done. And there is no new thing under the sun. Is there anything where it may be said? See, this is new. It has already been of old time, which was before us. So right here we see a principle that it's being expressed by solemn and that God is telling us that everything we think that's coming that's new, it's all happened before. But the interesting thing about that verse we're familiar with, if you continue to verse eleven, we get another revelation. It says the very next verse says there is no remembrance of former things. Neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are hard to come, which will come thereafter. So not only do things repeat, we forget. The current civilization forgets what happened in the old civilization. I think that's what happened with the pre-Damak civilization at us that we don't have that knowledge, but it's in the Bible to be revealed. And how can I say that? So I think again, I'll go to another passage here. And again, we're just set in the table before we really dive into this. And this is Romans 16 where Paul writes now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. But now is made manifest and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commands that everlasting God made known to all nations. So God is telling us that there was a secret. There's a mystery that God is hidden in the, since the beginning of the world that is just now being revealed. And so what is this mystery about? It's about the fact that when God started creation in Genesis 1, the original creation he anticipated the rebellion of Lucifer, the fall of 1/3 of the angels and was already putting a plan in place to not only judge Satan in the fallen angels, but to bring in a new creation, a new race that would replace them, namely us, humanity. And reconcile everything and show that his word and his way was true over Satan's. But he's kept this secret from the angelic realm until now because obviously it's all through Jesus Christ and through the gospel. And so what does that take us to say, okay, well, what happened in the beginning? And we talk about this idea of time and things repeating and time travel. And I, which I think again, God being existing outside of time. Of course, you're seeing, he sees all things are happening at once from the divine eternal perspective. Would you say most Christians think that like that wasn't part of the plan, like humans falling and the serpent in the garden. That was all like God just got, you know, blindsided by this event. Right. Some people think that. I think we even in our own, uh, prideful way, think that when we think we can get away from something that we're surprising. But no, God can't be surprised. God can't be ambushed. And he's always obviously multiple, multiple steps ahead of everyone because he got his controls entire future. And so he's guiding everything with, and he's weaving his will and his plan through human decision and volition and through angelic decisions. Every we have free will, but God is going to work around our decisions to bring about his will. And so he, of course, he anticipates and knows everything, which is why again, you had this mystery. And I think, um, when we get to Genesis 1, 1, we can go there. I think what right there, when you study carefully, you'll see that basically, what I'm stating is that there is a whole history of millions of years. If not more, in between Genesis 1, 1 and 1, 2, when the angels under Lucifer's leadership were the first original inhabitants of earth, ruling on the kingdom here and likely other planets as well. And then he instituted a rebellion against God was punished. And that's why we see when we get to verse two, as we're going to look at in a moment, what people think of as this kind of formless and void earth is a judged, ruined, devastated earth that was judged by God's divine judgment. All right, we spent a lot of time on blurry creatures asking big questions, ancient texts, missing history, creatures in the woods, but every night around 6 p.m. there's another mystery. What are we eating? And that's where home chef steps in. Home chef sends real ingredients to your door, no lab experiments, no sad freezer meals, real food, real instructions that don't require you to disappear in the kitchen for hours to make. Home chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe. It makes it super simple as you said, fresh food delivered, easy recipes to follow. And meals actually take great no mysteries here, and they also partner with Gordon Ramsay to make some exquisite meals at home. That's talking about rigatoni steak, strip ragu, ramsys, crispy sesame shrimp, chicken with parmesan cream, I hope things I ordered and got from them recently. And they're fantastic. And you'll find recipes like this and a bunch of other ones across home chef's culinary collection, classic meal kits, express options, each designed to get the most out of you in the kitchen, my friend. That's right. If you're like me, and you can't follow directions very well, home chef is rated number one by users and other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. And we know that it's hard. You got a lot of things going on and you could put these meals together as faster than you think and they taste great. I did it myself. I loved it. And I was actually really impressed. Plus it's affordable. They got home chef customer saving hours of $86 a month on groceries. So for a limited time, home chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box. Plus, free dessert for life. Go to home chef.com/blurry. That's home chef.com/blurry for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Home chef.com/blurry must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. So how do we find that that story between the verses? Yeah, sure. Let's get right to it. Let's do it. Let's do it. So we're going to go right to the first verse of the Bible. Genesis 1, 1. In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. So that's verses 1 and 2. And so a few clues stand out right away. The first thing is the first sentence. The Bible gives no age of the earth. It just says in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. It's indeterminate. There's no time for input on that. Human beings is different. The creation of humans, but the earth, there's no time put on it. And then we look here, this gets into the Hebrew. So the earth was without form and void and that verb there, Hayah in Hebrew is a very different verb from the verb to be in English the way we use it in America. So we can say it's very static. You can say I am a lawyer. I am a Christian. Whereas there isn't really a verb to be like that in Hebrew. When you hear the word is or was in Hebrew, it implies an action, a transition. It's a dynamic verb. And so just to give some examples, you can just look in Genesis chapter 2 when God creates Adam. It says, he breathed the breath of life into his nostrils and he became a living soul. That's Hayah. Sodom and Gomorrah. When the angels were rescuing lots family out of Sodom and Gomorrah for God destroyed it. And he said, you just don't look back at the city. And of course, lots of wife chose to look back. And it says she became a pillar of salt. That's Hayah. And so that's that same verb. So it's an action action to place something happen there. So right off the bat, really the real, and this is when you go back to a more ancient text and certainly ancient commentaries, they render the passage and the earth became without form and void. And so and then we have the next clue, those terms without form and void, Tohu Vabohu in Hebrew. That term is used repeatedly to refer to a destructive judgment of God. And so there's a whole part of the story we don't get. The mention from the beginning, right? Exactly. Exactly. You say the ancient. Do you think that this was, you know, because we are, we talk about this often the show, we are so far disconnected from the context, if you will, the ancient's had this. So do you think that this was just like they understood by the Hebrew like, yeah, there was something, there's a story before the story. Our story starts and the earth is in ruin. And that they were like, yeah, that's how it went. And they kind of had some that understanding as opposed to a lot of folks probably now look at it. I mean, we're as human with things linearly, right? And we're like, oh, they just everything happened this. And in this order, and there's no pre-story. But oftentimes we feel like we are missing. Like we, as you're writing about it, they're missing like the sort of context a while and how and it's sort of we arrive on the scene and there's in the middle of a story. Exactly. And that was the ancient understanding that basically Genesis 1 is Star Wars and New Hope, right? It's episode 4. But we are arriving in the middle of the saga. And you know, you can look at the, the some translations of the ancient Hebrew Targoms actually used, actually translate to the earth became a ruin any waste, which is why in the 1800s, a lot of theologians actually called the gap theory, the ruin reconstruction theory, taking it from the Targoms. Then you have church fathers like origin, for example, John Chrysostomum, who openly, like very explicitly wrote of pre-adamic civilizations of Lucifer inhabiting earth before Adam in ancient times, obviously. So so you have that, that certainly there's certainly lots of documented evidence of this in the ancient church. Old-school blurry episodes. That's, yeah, they're, I'm surprised how many of that like that those guys got real weird in some of their thing. I find it a lot of time to think about stuff. Yeah. And then if you wanted to mean people, you had to send them by the mail, you sent them to mail. It's like the Amish too. Between rock throwing contests, they had to have some really great discussion. We didn't want to listen to Peru and I wanted to remind everybody. So the Alvarino I won. How long you think? You're saying millions of years of, of, let me get on the guess, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I think so. And again, if we operate under the premise that everything is repeating, everything to come, prophetically has happened in some form and fashion before. We're going to live in an era where you know, the veil between the human realm and the heavenly realm is open, right? Whether do you talk about the millennium, the reign or certainly the New Jerusalem, right? The heaven is coming down to earth. And so I believe at this time, there was no need for that veil of separation before the sin of Lucifer. So you have that type of heaven on earth existence. The past of time is so different. And so even one of the passages I talk about, that's I think a principle passage that talks about this is second Peter chapter three, where Peter says that the earth that then was perished being overflowed with water. And the heavens and earth, which are now reserved to fire in judgment. And so he's there. Peter is right there saying that there was an ancient earth that was overflow. But he's not talking about the days of Noah. He's talking about the Luciferian flood. It's interesting too that like that point of there being this like no veil is also how God begins eating. I don't know how to read it in the story, but that if God's walking without him in the garden and the serpent's there and they and we know the serpent is Satan and he was also in that place, then there was the same thing, right? And I don't know, maybe there's not time yet then either because it isn't until the fall of man that death enters the world really, right? So you have this whole, I don't know what we're reading. I'm reading a habit. I'm just thinking the same in the same way that God's like, okay, we'll do this again. And he creates the earth. And then you have a similar thing until we enter this center to our own. And to that point, Peter, insight, Peter three, right after he just discusses the world being overflowed, he says, but be mindful that a day with the Lord is a thousand years, a thousand years, is a day. So right in the reference to this ancient, what I call the Luciferian flood, he gives the reminder that time is traveling much differently. And he says, be mindful of that when you think about this ancient era. When kind of going back into the research and like thinking about the megalithic dynasties, it seems like there's a long time there where they're able to build some of this stuff. And there's actual dynasties. And then those cultures all hold on to their own narrative of the day loose. So you would think that there could be like almost like their civilization wiped out. Then we start again, then we go, you know what I'm saying? It always felt older. There's not enough time for all the megalithic stuff to make sense. And we've been there. You know, we've got to see it like the basis of what that would be even after this pre-civilization. Well, some of it could seem like some of it might have been before. Oh, absolutely. And that's the thing. And that's, you know, there's I have a in the new book, I've a whole chapter on the, you know, the ancient evidence that the amount of findings that predate, you know, the common understanding of humanity starting seven thousand years ago in Mesopotamia obviously go back to Tepi, which is about 13,000 years old. But even going beyond that, they they found in Tel Aviv, Israeli archaeologists found a hearth, the actual furnace to cook food that they think is 30,000 years old. So I mean, in the Philippines, they discovered ancient fish hooks for deep water fishing that's 46,000 years old. So this we're not talking about, you know, Uga Buga cavemen. We're talking about events, humanoids, civilizations. This is a lot of the ancient alien theories. This is why they don't embrace the gospel. Sure. Sure. Because they think Christians are like not their timelines all messed up. But this fits into the god. And then completely Graham Hancock, even with the with the discoveries in Indonesia, which is like 40,000 year old like construction, Megalitha construction. That's it sounds like we need to readjust our timelines and a lot of ways. And we just talk through this with, um, forget who we this conversation maybe was a Troy about the idea of why there is the genealogy. And the genealogy isn't so we create a timeline back to Adam. It's it's so we trace Christ back through back to Adam, right? Or so. And you're not hitting it's more like a it's not a complete family tree. It's more of a highlight, highlight reel is what it seems to be. And the timing isn't the point at all. Yeah. But we're obviously we're dovetailing out of auto. Yeah. This is the first time we've gone here. So we've talked about the exploded like Tim Albrino talks about the exploded planet Rahab. That's the asteroid belt. There's like this war before I bought this. Yeah. Sure. Sure. So that we you know we've we've dove into this before. Yeah. But I'm trying to think okay. So you're seeing a lot more between these two verses than the average Christian. And that I think that's great. I think that's good because it feels loaded. Genesis feels very loaded. Yeah. It is. And again, and there's more to it. I mean just again, just to pick up in verse two. Yeah. Even even how you see the conditions, right? There's darkness over the earth, right? You can see a sign of God. That's a sign of God's judgment. If you look at prophetic passages about the great tribulation or the day of the Lord is it's called in the Old Testament. It's a day of darkness of gloominess. You look in Revelation and it says the stars will not give light. The sun will be darkened. So we see a dark and earth in verse two. Again, we see a sign of God's judgment. And of course, the earth is flooded, which you go seven chapters later. It's exactly what you see after the judgment of the Nephilim, the fallen just in the days of Noah. So all just in that verse alone, you're seeing clear evidence of what I call the ancient tribulation, the first great tribulation. And what we see in Revelation is just the second of the in the cycle before God brings this plan together. And I think one passage that's really if we want to do a little bit of time traveling is in Jeremiah 4. You know, in the ages subscriptions, you get caught in all those things. Bigfoot enthusiasts, maybe you got a subscription only bigfootfeed.com. How do you cancel? You don't even know. You go to the websites or rigour, Maroo, and how to get out of that subscription. What do you do, Luke? Well, it's more elusive than finding the big guy in his feet. That's right. What you do is rocket money. We've talked about rocket money for months now. They're a partner of the show. I just love their service. They made canceling unwanted subscriptions. Forgotten subscriptions. Super easy. You can do it right from the dashboard. And it's really taking a lot of a time off my plate from managing financial stuff too, because you can see all everything you're spent. The categories you spend it. How much you're spending. And of course, all the subscription things that you're subscribed to that you don't want, like that only bigfootfeed.com. Is that canceled yet or what? It is. It is now. Sasquatch is like in your browser, going through your unwanted, crushing your unwanted subscriptions. And helping you get your personal finances back on track. That's right. Rocket money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Monter your spending and it helps you lower bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket money has saved me more than a thousand dollars in the last year and I don't want to subscriptions. And negotiating bills for my cable and my cell phone downward that I might be half. And then listen, I can see all the subscriptions I have in one place, including the ones I forgot. If I see something I don't want, Rocket money can help me cancel it. There's a dashboard. It gives me clear view expenses across all my accounts with automatic transaction, categorization, and tags that show my spending patterns. And create a personalized budget to keep spending on track and get alerts if my bills increase or if there's unusual spending activity. Let Rocket Money Help You Reach Your Financial Goals Faster. Join RocketMoney.com/blurry. That's RocketMoney.com/blurry. RocketMoney.com/blurry. There's a passage that people often say this is a prophetic passage, but I actually think Jeremiah is seeing into the past and actually seeing the destruction of Lucifer's kingdom. And so I can go there and get that re there. And so yeah, so this is in Jeremiah 4, this is verse 20 and to 23 and it says, destruction upon destruction is cried for the whole land is spoiled. Suddenly are my tents spoiled and my curtains in a moment. How long shall I see the standard and hear this out of the trumpet? For my people are foolish. They have not known me. They are the saddest children and they have no understanding. So this is just proclaiming judgment upon Israel for their wickedness. They are wise to do evil, but they to do good have no knowledge. And then Jeremiah says, I beheld the earth and low is without form, and void, and the heavens, and they had no light. And these are the cities were broke down and there was no man to be found. And so I think what happens here, and then God says, right, I have to resist, but I will, but I will not make a full end of Israel. So I think what God was doing was he's rebuking Israel in the entire chapter for their rebellion for their idolatry. And then he shows Jeremiah says, this is the last time I was this upset. This is what I did because he's seeing a destroyed earth with no humanity left, right? And the great in the great tribulation people survive. People will live. They will be flesh and blood human beings, the millennial kingdom, who are judged as a judgment of the nation. So there be many living people after Armageddon, but here no one is left. And I think that what he's seeing is into the past in God's, but in this time, in Israel's case, I'm not going to do this, but I just want you know I could do this. Okay, so break it down for the slow kids. We have God creates the world. It's dark. And there's before humans enter the scene, there's like a sort of a history. Like who's there? And what's happening? Sure. So I think the earth was created as a beautiful earth, the beautiful pristine earth with trees and flowers and all those things. And then he placed the angels there. Okay. And we see this, of course, in evidence of this in Ezekiel chapter 28, where addressed in the King of Tyre, but in the esoteric sense, speaking to Satan Lucifer, God says, you were in Eden, the Garden of God. So he's specifically placing Lucifer in the Garden of God, it's clearly not referring to the King of Tyre. And he says, every precious stone was I covering, the sardis, the topaz, and he lists all the stones that you find on the breastplate of the high priest that Aaron was instructed to wear to go into the tavernacle. In the maseradic, exactly, they have nine. In the Septuagint, they have all 12 listed in Septuagint version. All 12 stones are listed there. So you see here that Lucifer was in Eden on the holy mountain of God serving an appreastly role. He says that he was, and I prefer the Septuagint translation of this chapter. I think it's the most accurate one. It says you were with the cherub. So he was around the cherub, he mentioned, he's at the throne of God. It says among the stones of fire. And so I think, again, it's placing him in Eden, in an appreastly role. And if you look, I even show that I think those stones of fire, those are the coals that you see around God's throne in the book of Isaiah. Isaiah chapter six, where he sees God on his throne. And Isaiah says, I'm a man of unclean lips. They take a stone that's right by the cherub and put it on his mouth to a tone, essentially, clean him from his sins. And so I think that's exactly where Lucifer was. This highest ranking beautiful archangel serving God. And then obviously, it says you were perfect in your ways until a nicotine was found in you. He then had a plan of jealousy to say, I'm on it in pride to say, I'm going to take the throne. And so yes, it was the angels ruling on earth. And then the corresponding passage to that that talks about the history of Lucifer very explicitly. I think it's also in Isaiah 14, where we know this passage where the five I wills, but the key thing, again, for your question was, it says that Satan said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God. So we now, he's in Eden, he has a priestly role and he has a throne. He says, because he says if he's exulting his throne, he has one. And he says above, he's looking up to the clouds. He's ruling on earth. I believe leading the angelic realm in a good way, in a godly righteous way, and then plans this rebellion and insights of one third, the angels to join in with him. So the earth, again, I believe, was occupied by the angels initially. And then I think also too, that you also have other humanoid beings on earth as well, because you're looking at Isaiah 14, it talks about things like Satan not opening the house of his prisoners. And who were his prisoners? Who were the people that he was keeping in prison? And so that's where I think we see on the ancient earth. And then what happens is of course, thank God judges Satan. He tries to he launches his insurrection. He loses his cast down to earth. He's punished. Of course, and how it becomes evil and the other, his angels become the fall angels. And then God brings the original tribulation on earth. And that's when he judges it with earthquakes and darkness and floods the earth and destroys it. And then leaves it like that until we get to Genesis 1 and verse 2 where now he's getting ready to turn the lights back on. It says let there be light in verse 3 now he's going to regenerate the earth. Yes, question I think is the maybe thing of something that's really interesting is that we've talked with Hugh Ross is the one I I about the the is we talk about prophecy being cyclical right. So the end he talks about how the city of God descends and there's no night no day. So he as a scientist goes well then there's no laws of thermodynamics. There's no so you have this complete changing of the physics we understand. And I and as you're saying this, I'm wondering if perhaps that was the way before if everything is cyclical. Then when God says let's there be light and separates the life in the darkness again that he's maybe reinstating or he's beginning a new creation with that includes the laws of thermodynamics and the laws of I agree. Which is really an interesting thought because if you read it literally in in Revelation, Hugh says that like the city is so large that kind of mass would have to be a sphere is how things work. And you know and if there's no sun if there's no night no day, then you lose the was the second law of thermodynamics. There's always things that are sort of now gone. So we have a new physics. And then I think about how to read the creation story you go, it feels like God is now creating sort of newtonian physics as you know and he's maybe you just wonder if he changes the game in the creation after the it's just I don't know it's it's a it's a fun thing to think about basically on the end. So continue Ryan. I am because I don't think a lot of people will see that in the first two verses. It's hard to see it. Yeah, you can't see it. You can't see it all there. You know, I mean you can't I mean and again of course you know we know like you know going back again to Solomon right probably 25 that God is concealing things and we have to really unravel it in scripture. And so again just putting the clues together if Satan shows up in Genesis chapter 3 evil as a villain and he was once righteous there has to be a history behind there. So what is the typical explanation throughout church history? Is it that God creates the earth but it's formless and empty right? Like it's just a shell? No, it's created pristine whole with beautiful. So in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Earth is good. Earth is good. It's beautiful. It's pristine. And then verse two doesn't make sense then a lot if you don't you know now the earth was formless and why is it dark and empty? Because of the judgment in between exactly. So this is yes. So there's a lot of things called gap theory. It's called the gap theory. Exactly. So in that gap is where the rebellion of Lucifer took place and we have the judgment that renders the earth formless and void. That's what's happening. That's the intervening period that leads to the earth becoming judge ruined in a waste. And so the gap theory is explaining the Luciferian rebellion that took place in between those two verses hence it being called the gap theory. There's actually a gap of immense time between verses one and two. Does I mean I recently just watched interstellar. Can gravity play a part with how time is moving on earth at that point? Oh no. It's a fixed time. Yeah definitely a fixed time. But like in that obviously in the film, but those I'm seeing it too late. But you know when they're trying to re-colonize like the going to other certain planets like ten an hour on this planet is years back home. So it could there be with the laws like a thousand years right? So I think it's very similar. Could there be some sort of like how it's created that earth is getting old but for us now it would be very short or long depending on how that equation works anyway. Just thinking out loud. It's kind of like a year on Uranus. It's 84 years long. It's it's it's it's most beautiful time. No, no place better. Yeah sure. That will play another like just derailing. Yeah. No place. Okay, so I mean I just don't think and I don't think the average Christian sees again. No, no they don't. They don't. But but they but we used to but we used to somehow I'll read something because of other verses that alluded to. Yeah, exactly. So again we have we know we all agree that chapter three Satan's already evil right and then we can look to again, uh, Job chapter 38 where we know definitively when God is speaking to Job and saying where were you when he's literally talking about the physical creation of the earth and he says that the morning star sang for joy the suns the moon starts sang in the suns of God shouted for joy. So we know the angels the benah alohim witnessed the creation of the earth. Yeah, so that means without a doubt they predate the earth. And if we have passages telling us that Lucifer was in Eden in the Garden of God in a righteous role before that has to also be before we get to Adam and Eve because he's already evil. He's already fallen. It's already a serpent and yeah, he's already tempting at the at the in the Adamic Eden, right? Exactly. You know, it's been debated heavily over years if bigfoot-like dogs. We don't know. But you love your dogs. And if you want to take care of those pups man's best friend, you've got to remember they need their nutritional supplements too. As I got older you wonder where that puppy spark went. Where did they go? Like they're slower, pick your meal time. The stomach sometimes seems off and you find yourself clean up messes worrying and quietly thinking, is this just what an aging dog looks like? And that's not old age. That's malnutrition. And that's what we brought in rough greens to really help. That's right. You want your dog food alive and we can't change the dog food industry. But what we can do is add probiotics enzymes, omega-3s and live vitamins back into their food to help your dogs be happy and healthy. When the gut is out of balance, it's just hard for those old pups. Rough greens is America's number one dog supplement. You sprinkle right on their food. It's packed with all the live nutrients they need. Plus it's all natural made in the USA. And thousands of dogs across the country are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years with rough greens. Your dog could be one of them. This is a really cool company. We got to meet the founder. Dr. Dennis Black. He's a 40-year survivor of kidney cancer. He basically healed his body by feeding himself the right thing. And in doing that, he thought maybe we could do the same thing with our dogs and he has. That's right. My kids' dogs came over the other day and they were doing circles because I was giving them the shoes, Luke. And they were just excited and ready. Yeah. And you've got Pete and Finn at home. And this sounds like a couple old Norwegian guys playing cars. Those are our dogs. And they look forward to it every day. They excited about the bag coming out of the pantry. And they scarf that food. That's right. My dogs love it. Your dogs will too. Get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. You just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com. Use discount code blurry. That's roughgreens.ruffgreens.com. Discount code blurry. Roughgreens. We make any dog food better. So someone pushed back and be like, well, there wasn't light yet. So where does the light come from? And then some would say, in heaven, they say, God is the source of light in heaven. So, I don't know if there's. Yes. There's a problem there for some people probably. Yeah. So again, I would say to those who say that who hold to the fact that no, the God created the earth and it was dark and covered in water. That was the original creation. Again, if you look at the Hebrew, the Tohu Vavo, who you can go to Isaiah chapter 45 verse 18 where God is talking about the creation of the earth. And he says he did not create it in vain. He created it to be inhabited. And again, that's Isaiah 45 18. And the word in Hebrew there is Tohu Vavo. So Isaiah is telling you explicitly, God did not create the world in this wrecked, formless, covered in watered state. So again, this is why I think you have to really put together the different parts of scripture that to really get this picture, you have to search the scriptures. You're never going to get it just from Genesis chapter one. You have to do some digging, which is what I love to do. And so, because people don't see a couple movies in two verses, but that's kind of what you're saying. There's a whole lot of it. It's not much different than like you've written two books on the Nephilim's. We look at Genesis 6 and everybody goes it's just four verses. But there's this massive story there that was just Moses, if we attribute Moses to writing Genesis, he knew there, but I knew the story. He didn't have to repeat it. We've said this ad-nazim on the show. Like the reason we don't get a whole Nephilim, and this is angels, and we'll just say that. But I mean, we don't get the whole story of what's going on here and how the Saul works. It's sort of the inocaine tale is that everybody knew that. So we say the same thing here, like people understood. Nine of a time. You've got to get to it, right? The angels understood that there's this prehistory. Exactly. They understood it. And again, even up until the 1800s, you have theologians commonly writing about Lucifer and having the earth that it was his fall that caused the destruction of verse two in Genesis and that there are other angels involved, there are other planets involved. And so it's again, this was a very, very common understanding, but you really have to, and that's that's a great comparison. It is very similar to Genesis six where you're not going to really in those, yes, it's just four verses, but there is a lot more context. But I'll just get just for it. So get back on this track. In the beginning, God creates heavens and the earth. Yes. Lots going on. Take a breath and we'll read in that verse. And then now something happens. The word now, now the earth was formless and empty. Wait, what happened? Is that what you're saying? Yes. There's just this big breath between the first verse and the second verse, but there's a lot that goes on. That's exactly what we were saying. Okay. I know we're kicking a dead horse here, but I think a lot of people just, we've been so conditioned to read it fast. Boom. This thing happens and that thing happens. And I'm just like, okay, now I'm tracking, tracking with you. Hopefully listeners are too. And then we see other verses to support that gap theory between those two. There's a lot that goes on. What about pre-adamic people? Could creatures like the big foot be a pre-adamic? I throw them in there. Let's talk to the people. We're talking about the time. The gap. What's going on in this gap? But there's just there's yeah, I think so. I think there's a stop. Definitely be a pre-adamic being who occasionally can enter R-L and B-C. Again, looking at Genesis one, if you look at what the details are saying, when God makes, this is another Hebrew difference. He's making animals. He's making plants, which is different from Baroque to create. He creates the heavens in earth. He makes plants. He tells the land to bring forth animals. He tells the water to bring forth sea marine life. He says after their own kind. So if again, this is again going about this is Genesis 6 type language. So why if this is the original creation of animals, why would there be a kind if they were brand new? So I think again, there were pre-adamic beings that greatly of all different species and probably hybridized species as well. You get into the dinosaurs or into the big foot and why you have all of sudden these gigantic reptilian beings in the ancient era. And I believe it was because of the fallen angels doing their hybrid program, leading to these giant beings. And then now when God's resetting the earth and bringing Amesley and he says after their own kind. So I think that there were different creatures created in the pre-adamic world that didn't make it through to the regenerated earth. So there could have been humanoid beings with dinosaurs at the same time which is it's kind of funny because like evolutionists get maybe a piece of that right the age maybe right. Yeah, oh yeah, but let's more geologists and evolutionists I feel like that's more of like trying to understand the ages of things. And this is always the problem for a lot of new earth Christians, right? Is that as you just said, if you find a hearth that it's 13,000 years old and and ancient Israel. Well, they'll just say the dating has to be wrong then, right? Right. And that becomes a slippery slope trying to make everything work. But if you look at the thing, everything is being ancient, which well, there are like tracks of dinosaurs and man together, right? So some people will say yeah, dinosaurs aren't that old, but it could be both. Yeah, they could, they're because of all the ones and they could be something that they're lingered. Yeah, and I don't think it gives any ground to evolution at all to have an ancient earth to have an ancient humanoid. And I think in fact, again, going back to the language, what God is doing if we remember God said clearly that at some point he said, I'm going to make a mystery that people aren't going to realize what's going on for a long time, right? That's right from Romans. Even with the creation of Adam, which was Barakh creation. Yeah. So he was a new thing being created. I think even the proclamation of let us make a man in our image after our likeness is that if that was God saying this time, we're making a race that's in our image that spiritually connected to us that reflects our image. And that's what set Adam and humanity, the Adamic race apart from any pre-Adamic race that we have God's spirit. And of course, obviously, we, you know, he breathed the breath of life into him. So he literally has a spirit of God. We care the image. We are his image bearers, which of course raised the ire of the fallen angels who realize at that point that not only do we have a right standing with God before Adam's sins, but that Adam can replace them. Which is what this is all about. So in the beginning, a million years, maybe time, existence, pre-Adamic things, it gets destroyed. And Luke's favorite movie, Waterworld Comes True. And then darkness is over the surface. Yes. And then the spirit of God is hovering over the surface. So underrated though, let's be real. Spirit of God is snuffing over the waters a second time or, you know, this is a new thing. Yeah. The spirit of God is hovering over the waters and then God is now regenerating the earth. And again, and we talked about the repetition. Think about, again, think about the days of Noah. The earth gets flooded. And now what does Noah do to signal it's time to return to leave the ark. He lets out a dove, right? Symbolic of the Holy Spirit hovering over the waters. And that's what lets him know now the new earth can begin. So that's what we're seeing. We're seeing a judged earth in verse two. And God's spirit is now that dove saying now it's time to regenerate the earth. And God says let there be light. And now the water is receding and everything's being created again. And remember, it says the dry land, the dry land is already there. God does not create the land in Genesis chapter one. The water just recedes and the dry land is revealed. So there's already a creation there just like you have animals coming out of the grounds because I believe again, their genetics is already in the soil because they were, they were, they were pre-ademic creatures. And so God is just simply regenerating the surface of the earth. And if you think about it again, do you think anything survived? I think it's possible. I think it's possible things survived. Yeah. And I think Jesus makes a reference to the future regeneration in the gospels when he says that he tells the disciples he says in the regeneration when the son and man returns you will sit on throes judging the tribes of Israel. I believe that regeneration he's talking about is that when he returns an army getting for the millennium what happens he regenerates the earth again. The conditions return to an Eden like state, the topography changes. Life's been suddenly returned, right? It says that a man of you died a hundred, your cursed. You know, animals are at peace with each other because that's what's taking place in Genesis chapter one. It's a regeneration of a destroyed earth that was judged in an ancient tribulation by Yahweh. So what do we do with the pre-ademic people? Right? Because I think this is an interesting idea and controversial, of course, like in a lot of a lot of circles. But as I was telling you pre-roll, we talked to Ali about the idea of two creations. So Genesis one is a creation the first chapter and the second chapter begins in the garden. That's so mind blowing it. But you have this sort of special place. And then of course the question is always like cane kills, able and he gets marked, no one kills him. And he goes out of the garden and there's cities and all these things and people will just say, well, it's just time. We don't really have an idea what the time is there. And so they were having kids and all these different things. And so it was just a bunch of his kids or cousins want to kill him. I mean, so are we seeing again like a like a pre-ademic people there in this second? Also, if we have perhaps people in this angelic pre-earth, if we look at chapter one and chapter two, are we are we seeing a creation of man of humans? And then a special creation of Adam and the line of Adam there? What are we what are we saying there? So I'm seeing kind of bolts. I see the creation of Adam. I think I read it in chapter one and two, but I do, but at the same time, I do think there were pre-ademic humanoids. I do believe that. And I think again, I'm getting that more from the other passages. Well, if Satan was had merchandising and trafficking, all this into Ezekiel 28 talks about, he had sanctuaries. Sanctuaries are places of worship. He had cities. So he casted cities down. So who is inhabiting? These are things that people inhabit. Jeremiah forces. There was no man left in this destroyed vision of the judgment he saw from God. I believe looking into the past. I think that there was civilization. And the interesting thing too is if you think about it that a lot of times people will think it's kind of strange that this has so much about Satan merchandising. He has merchandised traffic and is commercial. He's a big merchant, a businessman, but that's exactly what he's trying to do in the end times. He's trying to control the economy through the mark of the beast. Nothing. So he's going to control merchandising again. So in his agenda to overthrow God and develop that power to overthrow God, actually controlling commerce of society is a big part of it. Because we see that that's stated very clearly in Revelation 13. All right. So the end is beginning to the end. Start with the empire. And then you end with an empire. And then God's like, let's take this empire out. Let's start over. Let's make a garden. Let's start there. And then Satan's like, I'm going to turn it back into the empire, right? Exactly. Yeah. Tracking with you. And so that empire, and we might still see some of the foundations of that empire all over the world. Of course. Yeah. So there's like two flood stories almost. There are. Yeah. And maybe that's how this gets burned into the cultural because everywhere, every culture in the world kind of has this understanding there was a flood. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. Could have been one of the two floods. Exactly. Okay. I am tracking. Yeah. Yeah. Not the brightest, but I'm trying to keep us rolling right. So what? So what is we get? Speaking of brightest. Here comes the light. Right? Where are we at? And this? Okay. We got that part down. Here's another question. Are there any out texts outside of the Bible that talk about the gap theory? There are some, like I said, the target by his thing is the clearest because it actually just says that the earth became ruined. Yeah. That's the clearest closest. I mean, and that's a version of the Old Testament. The apocryphal texts make references to Lucifer's rebellion. Not so much the judgment, but there are some that references rebellion. But really a lot of what I look at in from aging times are really from the church fathers. They're the ones who are talking about this. And another interesting aspect we can talk about I think is I think that the Bible provides kind of a vision into how Satan got the fall in angels to rebel. And I think it's in the account of Absalom. What's going on there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so of course, Absalom is the son of David. And I think when you look at him, there are lots of interesting parallels between Absalom and Lucifer, based on what we're told in Scripture. And so, of course, obviously again, just for greater context, right? God says in Hosea, chapter 12, that he uses types and similitudes. So God tells us that he is intentionally giving four shadows in symbolism. David is a clear foreshadow of Jesus. Jesus is even referred to as David prophetically in Zachariate. He's the son of David. So David battles an effulom for the fate of Israel foreshadowing the Armageddon. So he is a foreshadow of Jesus Christ. And so Absalom, of course, is his actual son. And just look at some of the parallels. The first we're introduced to Absalom, his sister is assaulted by his brother, Amnon, forces. He violates her and Absalom murders his brother. And which of course he wasn't supposed to murder him for that. He was supposed to see justice, but very similar to how Jesus describes it. And he's a murderer from the beginning. So that's his introduction. He's a murderer. And then after two years go by, where David doesn't speak to him, after he murders his brother, Absalom decides he's going to take the throne of David. And so we get to some more descriptions of him. And there's something really peculiar about him. So in 2nd Samuel 14, here's the description of Absalom in verses 25 and 26. It says, "But in all Israel, there was none to be so much praise as Absalom for his beauty. From the soul of his foot, even to the crown of his head, there was no blemish in him. And when he pulled his head, he cut his hair every year at the end of the year, because his hair was heavy, it waved 200 checkles after the king's weight. So which is five pounds. He had a lot of hair. A lot of lettuce. A lot of hair, but all still on that right now. Yes. Again. I'm back. It's a long time ago for me, man. Yeah, one more. My soul has been treated a long time ago. But, um, but notice the parallels, right? In his equal 28, what does it say about what gave the devil his pride? It says that he was corrupted by his beauty. He said he was perfect in beauty in his equal 28. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. You have corrupted your wisdom by your brightness. Therefore, I'll cast you to the ground. So just like Lucifer, Absalom is known for this unbelievable head to toe beauty hair that's so long it's five pounds. It's be cut every year. So we see this. And then what happens also is that his, what's his agenda is to take the throne of David Lucifer. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. And then he enacts this whole plan to rebel. And he even in the description of his rebellion, he comes into Jerusalem with 50 horses pulling him, right? This is just right out of second Samuel. And this, all this pomp and circumstance that we see in Z equal 28 when you look in the Septuagin version of Z equal 28. A lot of people read that verse and says, Oh, you know, Lucifer had instruments in him that he had, he's, he had musical instruments inside him in the Septuagin says instruments were played at your creation. So it's almost like almost like a king. Like he had like, he had a procession of music. And when he's judged, it says you were cast down with your violins as well. And so you see that the same idea of this pomp and circumstance and and deception. So Absalom basically tells David, I'm going to go worship God in Hebron, which is where David was anointed king. And as he leaves, he makes the coalition with 200 men and says when you hear the trumpets, you announce that Absalom is now king. And so again, we see this conspiracy and this number 200. So his hair weighed 200 checkles. He conspires the 200. This is a number that's very connected to rebellion and scripture, even in the book of Enoch, it's 200 watchers, you can inspire, right? To corrupt the genetic bloodline. And so we're seeing lots of these parallels. And then even his name, his name means the son of peace. His name is a deceptive name for was the Morningstar, the bright one. So all these things give the appearance of a beautiful righteous prince who's actually an evil usurper. And David kind of gave him the rope adope, you know, because David flees. He flees Jerusalem after Absalom announces himself king, because he doesn't want to fight his son. He sends one of his men, Hushai, to go to Absalom and say, I've given up on David, I pledge my allegiance to you. And so now Absalom's two, he has two right hand men to listen to. He has a hitherto and Hushai. David's on the run. Hitherto says we got David. If we send our armies now, we wipe them out, we kill him, the throne is ours. Hushai says, no, don't attack him yet. He's strong right now. We should wait. We should wait and then launch attack later on, which of course gives David time to like get his forces together. Absalom listens to Hushai. So just when he thought he was victorious, he was actually falling for David's plot all along. Just like Satan thought he was beating Jesus Christ at the crucifixion, but he was actually ensuring his own defeat. He was ensuring the very plan he'd been trying to undo for 6,000 years in crucifying Christ. To the point that it says in the New Testament that had they known, they would have never crucified the Lord of glory had they known the secret what the plan really was. And it's exactly how Absalom gets set up. He thinks he's about to defeat David and he's walking right into a trap. And then the last thing I'll just point out about him is, oh, I'm sorry, I can't forget one thing, is that when he's launching his rebellion, he says he sits in the gate of Jerusalem. And as people come in, he kisses them and says, wouldn't it all if I was king, you'd have so much more justice, you'd be judged fairly, you'd have more. And it says he stole the hearts of the people. And so I think we're seeing a picture of Lucifer seducing the fallen angels to say, if I was in charge, if I was ruling on the throne, you would have more. And I think we, and it even says, even that kiss, too, even that I connect that to when Satan in Luke 22, at the last supper, it says that Satan indwells Judas. He goes into Judas. He's now possessing him. And then Judas runs out to get the Pharisees and the Roman authorities to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. And how does he read him with a kiss? That was his signal. So even that, we've seen all these parallels. I think this is what God does. He gives us these four shadows all throughout scripture. And so then when Absalom is forward and backwards. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So you can say that like the human story plays out, like the angelic rebellion, you can see a human version of that. You can go backwards and say, this is a shadow of what happened in the gap theory, maybe. Exactly. And that's why I call it the scroll of time. Right. Because you should all they're all cycling over each other, right? There's no beginning. There's no end. The end is the beginning. So we can know what happened in the past based on, you know, like digging up some of the better documented stories that we have. Exactly. And when Absalom dies in the battles, they go into the battle now too late, because David has a full army now. It always might be men and they lose horribly. Absalom gets caught by his hair on a tree. But it's pride. A exact by his pride. And one person to see who hangs from a tree, right? But also in second Samuel says that he hung between earth and heaven. Again, that's how it describes him. It's very unique. It's almost as if he's like an angelic being, right? And so I connect that to when Jesus tells disciples, I be held Satan falling as lightning. So when Satan was finally punished in the ancient rebellion, he was between having an earth falling like lightning down to earth. And so when Absalom is defeated, and then he dies shortly after because you have comes and stabs him, he says he's suspended between heaven and earth. So I think that we got as giving us a preview into the past or a look into the past through Absalom's rebellion against David. Yeah, I like that. That's cool. This reminds me though too of like when we have talked to Doug Vandorn, he wrote the book of the rings revelation. And it's just he's what you're talking about Ryan is what Doug was talking about is the idea is he's not reading revelation as as prophecies is like a ring where it does repeat. You have this repetition. So his contention is that you read revelation and it cycles. It cycles in 70 AD. And it's going to continue to cycle. You're going to have it cycle until the final cycle. Right? And I think that's a lot of what we're talking about here is the way the prophecy works. I think we think about it. And this is how we start the conversation what I like is we think about it so linearly because we live in a linear timeline. Right? So our perception of time is that it it proceeds on in this linear fashion where God is not constrained. He is outside of that. And so the ideas of repetition and it's just it's just really interesting considering a conversation we've had because because then you also see the repetition of of the stories then it's it's as you said, it's God showing us both past and future. But then we're getting we can find insights into into the very distant past with with the stories of that happen in in that linear real time, right? Yeah. And you would think that a heavir writer would know that. And so filling in the gap theory wouldn't be as as important. Exactly. Because they're like well that that's going to get explained in the future, right? And that's their understanding of time. That's the ancient hebraic understanding of time is that it is cyclical. That is working as a circle. It's not linear. Linear time was God's accommodation to us because I'm going to give you guys some time to work this out before I come and judge everything. Right. Right. Right. So but he's existing outside of time. So yeah. So what world do you see on this story then what kind of things do you see going on in the gap if you apply this story to that time? What are you kind of filling in the holes there? Okay. Of how how did how was Satan able to get one third of the angels while he's working every day and handling the stones of fire and on the mountain of God? How did he actually get this done? I think it was by appealing that you could have more you could have a higher rank because there's hierarchy obviously in the angelic realm. You could have a better life more justice, more power if I'm in if I'm in charge. And so I think that's what this this past about epsilon is showing us. This is how it happened. I'm just by persuasion. I can offer you more justice, more power if I'm in the same way. On ironically it's the same temptation we see in the garden with the tree of good. It's like God's hold not on you. Don't you want to understand like we do? Don't you want to know these things and then but even the temptation of Christ right exactly like don't you want all these things like I you don't have to do all this I can give it to you right now. But nobody ever explained to us growing up in the church like it's pretty loaded that Satan rolls on the scene so fast. Like where did he come from and why is he able to just roll in right there must have been some other story that we haven't been told going on. He know he's coming back to do it again. Exactly because now the light gets turned back on. Yep. On the regenerated earth and now we have this new creation that is mating God's image and I believe bearing light themselves actually. What a purpose. Yeah I think there were yeah there yeah for to replace him and so now he's making his move to corrupt humanity to disrupt God and show when I talk about I call this the cosmic trial in the new book that basically God is allowing Satan obviously linear time to make his case and Satan of course is going to try and show over and over again that he that God's word can fail that his way is better that God is fallible and God is allowing this obviously to play out before Armageddon and so that's where Adam comes into play is Satan says okay I'm going to I'm going to show you that he healed this obey you right it's like Joe I'm going to show you that this new creation he's going to disobey you if I did all I have to do is do one temptation he's he's gone and so but of course literally you know that's bringing about the seat of the woman. I love that as a lawyer I love that like because you're you're a newbie in a lawyer because this is it is legal. Job is this like can I sift him God gives permission and then this is trial right and then if you look at the inocchio in tale too right what we know is that inocchio is you know in that portion of the park if I inocchio is tapped to represent the fallen angels in their in their case asking for leniency from God like for they've done and you have these yeah legalities yeah and it does feel like you know was Troy says it like demons are like sniveling lawyers that like that like this idea that they everything operates in this legality and God's and you're saying God's letting it. Yes. Letting it play out. But we even our term fallen angels right is loaded for a lot of Christians. We think they fell from this other realm they weren't already here they're just disloyal angels. Exactly right so we think fallen we think they they were just yeah they never occupied earth they never were here right yeah but no no they they were here they were here and um yes so yes so they they're evil they're apostate rebel angels but yes they were here they were here before and just it just to um you know on the point of the trial I think you know the New Testament even alludes to this went to us about salvation it says these are things that angels look into our salvation so there's something being played out in our personal salvation of humanity on earth that angels are paying very close attention to and I think again it's we are exhibit a for God's case for why his way is true and right and Lucifer is trying to make his case and this is what Adam obviously was central to all this because he's trying to again show that this new being this new race you you there no better than we are than the fallen angels they're gonna send just like just like we do but obviously we are a significant disadvantage. Do you think there's any jealousy there like with if we take a look at this at the theory in the gap here in the angels occupied earth and in this in this theoretical understanding then God destroys it and then gives it to humanity into the possible judge angels it's like the deed was taken and given to humanity and then there's got to be like from the disgruntled that got to be like you would give it to this lesser being and you know God give and then he gives you know he gives us and Adam as he did at the at the table and then divine counsel at the family right like they're we're given this seat and so all of a sudden there has to be this like because the Bible says things about angels too about how you know they marvel at at our faith like that that that people we believe and don't see yeah but the flip side that has to be they they're envious they they just wreak of envy and jealousy that we would be given this place that used to be theirs 100% and again God I think shows us this throughout this is the sibling rivalries throughout the Old Testament right it's cannabal Jacob and he saw it's always the younger sibling comes and you surps the older sibling the problem son exactly right and so I've been faithful right and you're gonna go out and run this game to see them but robot arraying and welcome them back and it's like and these are some of the things that take us back in time right to the how how the following just feel about us and even even with the Nephilim you know where God tells the Israelites I'm bringing you to a land with cities you did not build yeah with vineyards you did not plant I'm giving it to you because it belonged to the king night before so he's taking so he's taking new serpors out and giving what they had and that's exactly what happened to us so it was the earth yeah took the whole planet and gave it to us from the fallen angels and how do heavens play into the gap theory like what's going on in the heavens you think couple of things one the I think that what we see in Genesis one with the firmaments and the the waters above the heaven I believe this is when God is now setting up outer space and separating the sea of separation between the second heaven the third heaven to separate Israel so I think that's one thing and that was set up and then also I think in terms of what's happening to heavens I think they're seeing much more of the actual trial take place they're really seeing the court because again if you think about it the few glimpses we get whether it's in Job whether it's with Joshua the high priest versus he's staying for God and Satan's at his right hand basically saying this you know he should be you should punish him and God makes him clean his clean clothes yeah so this this is the battle that in Jude the the archangel Michael and Satan containing for the body of Moses when you read the intertestimental the assumption of of Moses that that book they're that that Jude's quoting you actually get the dialogue between the archangel Michael and Satan Satan saying I should get Moses' body because he murdered somebody he's going all the back to the Egyptian that he murdered and he says that's why he said he has he's shed blood therefore I should get his body and then Michael contains counters him by saying no because God created all bodies all people all matters was created by Yahweh and therefore if he forgives him he's he's accepted he's he's forgiven therefore God I should have his body to dispose of secret because obviously Moses is kind of a supernatural burial yeah so I think that's what the angelic Ramah seeing they're actually seeing Satan up there and this is why Jesus is called our advocate because he's literally serving as our attorney to test testifies to why God shouldn't just turn us into dust right now because we're covered in his blood and so I think that's what they're actually witnessing I like thinking about that like I like that that imagery because the Bible does call Satan the accuser absolutely so he's like he's casting accuser said legally this is happening legally that okay and Jesus saying now I paid yeah okay so then the Genesis 6 rebellion will be the second angelic exactly okay yeah it's hard Genesis 6 is now a lot of people have a time accepting the first one yeah yeah yeah so then when we when we talk about the ancient times and like the gods on the earth the gods of the nations the gods these are angelic beings literally sitting on throes yeah and then their sons and daughters also are like the men of renown but these are like physical empires on earth but it seems like it's hard for Christians modern day because where do they go why aren't they still physically in our realm at this point so yeah so interesting so Clarence Larkin um who wrote about this a lot about this in the early 20th century he comments he he he theorizes that a lot of the original there may have been after millennium revelation 20 the when Satan makes his final assault on the holy city right and and then God sends fire from heaven to wipe out the final army of rebellion he speculates that that may have happened in ancient times that there may have been a fire from heaven that's why we don't see a lot more of the civilizations and bones and skeletal remains of all this pre-ademic civilization that may or may not be true I'm not dogmatic on that but one thing he says that's really interesting to me is that in Revelation when it says the books are opened the second resurrection when everyone is resurrected good and bad now everyone's standing before God's throne it says that Hades and hell gave up their dead so now everyone's getting resurrected everyone's getting thomped it up from the ground but it says also the sea gave up its dead you know everyone in our time linear timeline is going to hell you're going into hell the fallings of the abyss we think of hell is you know she all Abraham's bosom torment and then the abyss but it says specifically Revelation that there's a population of the dead that are in the sea and large and things that's where the pre-ademic dead went so why else would they be what what what who would be there because it's not not even me a lot of pirates maybe yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah there need to be a prison for for these yes so that's so that's something I do that part I do kind of expound on in in the book that because I think it's a really interesting theory that he had because I read that I was like you know why is why is the sea casting out dead if they're not if hell has the dead and says hell cast on this dead what who's coming out of the sea that's a great point yeah it's like yeah who's that so there had to have been some remnant of the first round when Eden's created right because there seems to be some some bustling going on outside of exactly and I think that's very I think it's very plausible that there's still remnants of pre-ademic civilization at the time Adams created or beings who can actually maybe have just are somehow passing out of the dimension into dimension from the pre-ademic time so you believe Eden is kind of between heaven and earth yeah absolutely even to me is there was the in our human timeline was the first temple right because God is manifesting his presence in Eden so it's clearly there's a supernatural intersection going on there the veil is removed in the Garden of Eden clearly in the at least until sin right until Adam and Eve sin we're semi protected in this space and kind of restarting and then that's obviously when said oh and by the way now that you mentioned that just brought nothing to my mind just to go back to the is equal 28 and sub-tugian version yeah so you have Adam and Eve of course they are they they they succumb to sin they're cast out obviously and God put the cherubim and a flaming sword to guard the past they can't go back into Eden and obviously he doesn't want to go back because if they should should they live forever they'll be forever corrupted they can't be redeemed and in the sub-tugian version of is equal 28 it says that I've cast you out of the holy mountain of God and it's just that cherubim has cast you out so it's almost the same thing he's where loose first cast out of the holy mountain out of Eden and there who was there keeping them out the cherubim again right so again we seem parallels that this that Lucifer experienced this casting out before Adam and Eve ever did on a mountain on a cosmic mountain yeah where are we at now in the story where it feels like you've taken us on this wild journey here in alien where we at now yeah I can tell you where we're right now okay and this is a little something that we mentioned pre-roll but I can so so what is again because the end is the beginning yeah the beginning is the end what is Satan's ultimate end game and so again when I think of I'm approaching this from this book is probably my most lawyerly book I feel like my wife probably disagree because she's like you're always trying to make a case and everything yeah tons of evidence but I'm really approaching this from a lawyerly perspective right so we have motive obviously by Lucifer right I will be like the most high I will insult my throne pride envy jealousy what the desire for power obviously what are the means how is it okay I tell the third of angels your life would be better if I was in charge okay that could be true but how are you gonna beat him right how's that gonna happen you know he's and not to mention the fact that we're outnumbered and so I think that's where we are now in terms of what is Satan trying to do his end game to get power to defeat God inextricably involves human civilization and how let's unpack that so I think that what I talk about is there's a power that exists a spiritual power that can be unleashed when a population is completely unified yeah and where am I getting this from gain this from the tower of battle number of you go to the tower of battle and the constructing the tower the whole earth is unifying then God says to me what the probably top three most chilling verses in the Bible when God says he looks down the towers as if they complete this there's nothing that will be restrained from them which they imagine to do they can do anything if they actually finish this tower and of course I believe that was the towers obviously I believe was you know trying to open up the supernatural port they were trying to literally open up the rip through the veil to get to heaven to you serve God to dig right exactly and so so I think that's that's a real statement you know and of course God has to physically come down to earth to scatter them and the knows that all it took was he didn't even have to hurt them he just had to separate them and the threat was gone right he doesn't kill them he just separates them and so there's a power there that Satan has been trying to harness in unifying a people and this is something that that scientists now they call it noetic science and if you ever read any damn brown in the law symbol this is what he talks about in the law symbol and he's newest book he talks about this extensively this idea of noetic science that and there's an institute for noetic science have spent a lot of time in their website where they but they talk about the fact that if you look at things like rock concerts music conscious stadiums big gatherings that there's a spiritual energy and of course there are lots of videos where sure artists talk about that they're having out of body experiences on stage when we are leading you know when there's 70,000 people screaming weird stuff like Taylor Swift concerts is one I remember most recently people like like lose time they're like I blacked out and I exactly or the Travis Scott was like a weird portal thing that happened there I experienced that a little bit just in my music career you know we would have smaller crowds but even just four or five hundred people in a room singing back to you there are multiple times I felt like you're kind of floating and then you just go to a crappy town crappy show and you have to you just know it's just not here right and we have to pretend that we're into this it's such a weird thing but I've experienced it for a so weird thing yeah and there's and there's real research around it yeah and so so revelation is not to derail you it's telling the future and the past at the same time exactly and which is why I think we debate it so much because we're like that's just to tell the past and the future it is it's not a final revelation it's like many revelations constantly and maybe what happened in the beginning and so I think we debate you know what's gonna happen in the end times and so it's like there's a lot of Christians who hate the end times and say no revelations already been it already happened and like well yeah but it's gonna happen again exactly yeah exactly and so and that's what it's telling us right telling us the past in future so what is Satan doing a revelation exactly what he tried to do in the ancient preademic earth which is to do what unlocked this power by unifying population the population of the world yes that with the antichrist you know obviously with the mark of the beast that is his means of achieving that power unlocking that babble these appear to you power again by unifying the people and the interesting thing I look to is obviously know about controlling buying and selling just like I said it did is equal 28 he's controlling the merchandise and the traffic but also the image of the beast so they create this image it's a manufacturer the false prophet lures humanity into creating this image and it's given life so it's it's the fulfillment of the ultimate AI it is artificial intelligence it's manufactured but it's alive and has consciousness and it says that the image knows who is worshipping and who's not and enforce that under penalty of death so how can that happen how could it know globally whose worshiping or not well if you're tapped in to a hive mind neural network through the mark it's gonna know it can't know just just just like my watch knows if I'm standing right now or not from sitting you know this is out it's time to stand and so that's where I think Satan's gonna get that power and I talk about some of the technologies now you know you know obviously we have neural link you know from Elon Musk but there's like there are technologies way beyond that now they have a new technology it's they call it biscuits BIS to acronym but it's just a thin way for they can go under the skull and then only they're singing they can already do two-way communication to the mind through it and so if you have two-way they sit to the point that soon they think that these are like scientists from like four different universities and they're saying that soon they believe that they'll be able to even implant images in someone's mind who has this so that type of two-way communication now you're in a situation you can return to Babel but you can say okay we're all of one mind one purpose one worshiping one being and that's where Satan is that's the end game is now Satan preparing with technology because Satan needs technology he's not omnipotent he's preparing to to once again unlock that power because that's how he can fight God he can't he's not more powerful than God on his own but he's trying to unlock this power when you look at this in scripture once the enterprise is in power and is full control it's go time now all of a sudden Satan the end of Christ the false prophets they released these demons that go out recruit the kings of the world now it's time to fight yeah so he gets control the world he unifies them in worshiping his son his hybrid nephilum son by the way and now he's ready to try and fight y'all way because he feels like I have this power again I've unlocked the Babel power again which he used in the ancient times in the pre-adamic world so this will be his third time the trilogy will be complete in relation as well though because like what is it Elon Musk just said as a verse recording like this week I think that we've hit singularity it was supposed to be five years out there was something that came out oh wow which is like if you know what that is just means that AI is surpassed our human ability and knowledge is which is one of those things where all the sudden them you know it's terminator all the machines are now smarter than we are yeah which is the you know these while you do you talk about stepping stones to that and just makes sense I was thinking as you're talking I'm thinking of course it's like we need a one-world language we need that we need a everyone to speak the same language because you know how else do you do you get you know like Chechens and you know Russians to be to side with each other or whatever right I mean these these enemies of ages pass I think Babel's funny to think about too you think like all of a sudden like you've got someone speaking German and someone speaking Swahiliens guys one guy's clicking the guy spitting all over him and then like this didn't happen a second ago what's happened here well they tell about the communications a big it's a big thing that comes back and forth on our show yeah be people being communicated to by entities beings and blurry creatures communicating directly into their mind so we know it happens we just can't send but we can receive so maybe this AI technology will allow us to send and receive suddenly the we get that we go from the Nokia to the iPhone you know definitely and then you combine that with the supernatural miraculous power that the antichrist is there a fact yeah it's it's resurrecting to be resurrected exactly and so like so we see stories like Egypt and is the Israelites in Egypt during the the judgment right and and is that a story of of the end times you think like that plays out because I think that a lot of Christians don't have hope when so they want to rewrite revelation because they're afraid of wow this dynasty is coming back no we can't we can't believe that so we're I'm gonna spend my whole life trying to say that the story doesn't end the way you think it's not gonna go it's not gonna get that dark right I think that's a big motivator to yeah revelation differently it is it's a big motivator but you know at the end of the day we have to remember that God is just he is a God of justice he's also a man of war and so the only way we can ever reach the eternal kingdom that God is for us but there's no more hurt pain sorrow no more tears yeah no more struggle evil has to be dealt with and so yes of course there's nothing wrong with seeing wow this is scary this is freely this is really frightening seeing you know all these beings you know but that's what has to happen for God to to reconcile everything and I mean when you talk about the Exodus and the Israelites I mean that's a complete type in shadow right just of the judgment just got always providing for them in the midst of all this chaos well he's protecting and there's no percent that story even though it's freaky and scary absolutely I believe will be protected I believe that born again believers will not experience all the the plagues and punishments of revelation so I think that God will protect is whether it's in heaven or if you're on earth I believe Christians will be protected and I guess that's the flip side of the coin right is that that for all of the doom and gloom and the way the trajectories are we're just speeding at that like the hope is the gospel right is there and if that's where we find our hope then the as we said in the show before the biggest act of spiritual warfare is to share the gospel it's to give people that hope because it seems it does seem hopeless all said we're going to lose our you know the world economic forums you're going to live in a podney bugs you know like oh nothing and be happy right and it's like yeah you know we all our fathers here you know what what kind of world is is forming up for our kids yeah but yeah that's a great reminder they're like man like the hope is in the gospel and the Amen that are we have a good a good good dad it's going to put down this rebellion once and for all and I love your approach too because I feel like what it does is it gives it gives value to every single story and those stories build in the crescendo towards it and modern Christians can cherry-picked stories and say well I don't like this one this one doesn't fit in but it's like the buy everything is a foreshadowing of the next the next the next exactly and it's like regardless of what you think about the end times based on the case as a lawyer it's building through these previous stories it's coming it would make no sense if it wasn't yeah translet distinction baby yeah you got to just you got to get on the ride right yeah for 100% and the beauty of it too is for in terms of what we can take comfort in I actually told the store on the way here onto the studio was that you were a driver to the Uber driver yeah march your shout out marjorie this marjorie I love it how much uh it happens to Uber drivers yeah the way the studio yeah we hear it every time what do you do well let's talk about something weird where are you going you wouldn't believe it if I tell you yeah pretty much how it happens and so I was telling her the the value because she was questioning me about the value of revelation believe it or not and I said you know well I'll tell you the value I said I said I was on a podcast where I would say I would call it a new age who's to new age women they're very into just for lots of just different non-Christian beliefs which is fine I was happy I was happy to be a guest on there and I was on virtually so I could see their live chat and their fans were just bringing the heat to me yeah who's this clown this bible thunders guy out of here we talk about I don't believe anything he's saying and then we got into a discussion about the mark of the beast and transhumanism we talked about the two witnesses that everyone can see their bodies and I'm like you know that they're in the street I'm like that could only happen in the last 10 years I'm like is now you can go as deep as you want to go to in Uganda they got starlink out there everyone everyone's got a phone I make so these things the technologies are in place now to make these things happen and I said you know I just want to give a PSA I said I want to ask anyone in the chat here name a book that has this level of accurate prophecies the future that we can say all this stuff because they were all excited to talk about these things like yeah it's happening right now I'm like it but it's only in the bible yeah so the comfort we can take in these prophecies that showing the God's Word is true it's literally in the headlines every day so we know that if that's true then so has God's promise to redeem us to save us to make us immortal and that's the trust so it boosts to me it's like the best testimony is that we're seeing prophecy we're we're we're getting we're blessed to live in this era we're seeing God's Word coming to life right before our eyes so we know that our savior is real his sacrifice in the home is real his resurrection's real and our eternal life is real let's go and how and how it's incredible I love that every every episode it's more and more of that like realizing this is beyond the stories interweave in a way that could not 66 books and inherently coherently what interpret reinterpret each other too which is like the the numbers are crazy on that go ahead and what would you say to some of the ancient alien theories that that the kind of derail off of this like why do you think this message is important for people who are down the rabbit holes and think the earth is older and there is more going on and there's aliens showing up and they see the life here because it's oh based on what you've told us last hour and a half it would be easy to come to a lot of those conclusions based on like cherry picking some of these facts right definitely and they're so close yeah there's so there's got to tell us that all the time like follow through put the arc on it and you'll get in the who you'll get in the who you just got to follow through I'm like oh you're walking down as such a similar path you're looking at some of the same things the same mega-liths the same tools from thousands of years ago and putting it together in these signs of ancient civilization and and advanced technology but again we find that coherent there's a coherent story in the Bible that can bring this together and also too if these beings exist if there's another realm out there there's going to be a reconciliation and the Bible explains it so clearly they Bible explains it so clearly so I would just say yeah you're close but just gave the chance of understanding that you were put here for a purpose that we have a spirit we have consciousness and it's it comes from God and so I just point again to where else are you going to find more information that coincides with exactly what you believe and really honestly one of my longtime friends of mine who I've had went to college with had many many religious debates with and he was an atheist you know we saw talking about the Bible for years and but then he became a big ancient aliens devotee and went down that rabbit hole and then lo and behold he sends me a text message with a screen shot of a blurry creatures episode with my name one it says were you on the show I listen to show all the time you were doing on there I know when so yeah and so now he's actually opened up to the Bible because of this podcast shout out my name Adam no that's wow I think Johnny Gliggs yeah it's incredible because I think that a Christian doesn't have what you just described in this last this last episode well hit an alien announcement and then lose their faith because they're like aliens don't fit into the gospel eight beings in the heavens I we there there can't be beings in the heavens and we see this this visceral reaction a lot on our channels like no they're all they're all they're they're just something that I understand they're nothing else but I think that the ancient alien guys are walking away from the faith because Christians don't know how to explain aliens in their theology they don't yeah aliens can fit bigfoot can fit yeah you know galactic wars can fit well that's what he's going to the UFO I mean he's just famous when he was still alive we talked about he said I would go to the UFO conventions and invite me to speak and it's like the reason I went there is these people were the most ready to receive the gospel but the but the argument for Christians is they don't exist that's not true no bigs is so many things do in the heavens and and you're outlying in these two verses between this gap theory that who knows what went on what craziness happened yeah absolutely it's all real including heavenly realm physical vehicles yeah creatures that are not you know in our common zoology they were they're all real and so yeah absolutely and so we have to really again God says in Daniel 12 knowledge will increase we as the Christians are duty to to learn and understand these things because it bolsters our witness that's the mission here our mission while while we're here is to get souls on the art we're trying to get people on for the flood starts yeah and we have to be willing to engage in the supernatural the third film the third film that's by water not by water that's right that's right we got rainbows the same not all right I love this metaphorical remind the minus of the book's gonna be called because because this will be this episode will come out before your book comes out but yeah yeah so the book is the book will be called the earth before Adam okay and then I just want to encourage you because like your other two books you can talk about these these as well but this is a crazy time man because all of a sudden the biggest microphones in the world are talking about nephilim and you're a nephilim guy you're written two books about the nephilim and in this story but we it's it's everyone everyone up to Joe Rogan and back down is now talking about this topic and you've got three you got kenderson's you've got Tucker Carlson's you've got Joe Rogan you've got Sean Ryan you've got these yeah it's becoming you know I think Chuck Missler if he's still alive would be like I told you I was doing it in the 90s you know but it's yeah it's become it's coming into popular culture and to discourse in pop culture and but a lot of bad explanations of these things yeah yeah yeah that's where you come that's where you come in so like the two books the judgment the nephilim yeah my my first book that's the that's the deep dive into the entire tracing it from Genesis 3 right from the start the pronouncement of the seat of the woman all the way through the Old Testament explaining how this is not a Genesis story the nephilim is not a Genesis story it's a Bible story it's the story of our salvation because it goes to the heart of Satan trying to stop the Redeemer the Messiah and weaves its way through the Old Testament and then my second book the final nephilim deals with Revelation the Antichrist and how he is the last nephilim he is the literal offspring of Satan yeah basically how why why did Jesus say the end times will be like the days of Noah he said if you want to understand the end times look to the days of Noah why do you say that because it's again it's all repeating right and so it's going to be the return of the the saints its final attempt to once again introduce fallen angelic DNA into earth via the Antichrist in the mark of the beast it gets into all that explains revelation the judgments are me getting and of course finishes with our our savior Yeshua I love it because I think a victorious I mean it's the most most the most Christian time would say that that just means that people are gonna be bad and wicked but there's that's just the very small sliver of the story is that people are bad and wicked you know and I love that we're or teased in out your teased in out you're written too much on it we're just trying to talk about okay that there's much more to the days of Noah than people were real bad you know exactly exactly and it shows also not only was it more to it is that the flood judgment was a rescue by God it was saving the last remnant of humanity so we could still be redeemed so the redeemer could be more as an act of love to save us and same thing with the wars we seen the book of Joshua why did they happen and you know I was explaining this again in the uber to to to miss marjorie I was telling her I said you know I've had so many debates and I'm thankful for them you know what I used to do some some street preaching on the streets in the york city and people will bring up well what if your god is so loving and so wonderful how could he say go kill the women the children the animals just kill it wipe everybody out genocide and I said well you have to understand genesis six and understand that physical fallen angels came into our realm and physically married women and physically procreated with them and created hybrids and god is literally saving us from the last remnants of that so we don't become contaminated and disqualified from salvation man your work is so important because a lot of people comment the nephilim story is not that important it's not that important and I'm like are you kidding like a lot of people defunct into the new age because they don't they don't put that in their their story or like you said they walk away with their faith because God's just this just genocidal yeah exactly you need to understand it you do and again if you know for believers you have to understand these things and explain it and I and I praise God for the the good emails and DMs I've gotten from people who said I was so mad at God people literally saying that I was mad at God because I could not understand the wars in can I could not justify this one of the blood I was one of the go so but understand this obviously changes your whole perspective and and shows how much God actually loves us he's just pulling us back you know we're just running to touch the stove you know where the little kids want to go into the hot stuff he's just pulling us back every time and so yeah might hurt a little bit but it's better than when the consequence of our own choices and so that's what God's doing and so understanding the nephilim just opens all that up it's like it's like we think the the story of humanity and the gospel and heaven it's like a 3vHS movie and it's like remember the north and south when it was like 30 oh yeah tapes or loan some does 30 VHS you you pulled some old ones out of the old oh yeah the old trunk that's right man hey have you seen this movie oh no we haven't what a tree bro episode 122 was the last thing we do then we're we're into the almost 400s here so wow way too long without having you grays are are so but what an honor man and and what's the book called again the new book is the earth before Adam the earth before Adam all right we're excited yeah thanks Ryan thanks for having me all the spirit and then your other two books they're on Amazon oh yeah yeah yeah so you could yeah of course yeah so yeah judgment the nephilim the final of them nephilim they're available on Amazon ebook audible also study guides I put a lot of information in there so they're companion study guides as well and documentaries you can find them all the more website how do you find time right I don't have no idea but this is a wild ride good on you man takes me several episodes to figure out what the heck the person's trying to tell me I'm like okay now I'm getting out a little bit so if you're slow out there thanks for taking us on that ride I hopefully you know what we were talking about but I loved it thank you awesome thank you yeah (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)