Ep. 4 - Witches of Pop Culture

[Music] Hi, I'm Jen, I'm the witch. Hi, I'm Vic, I'm the skeptic. Welcome to my room, it's a witch. Oh yeah. What are we talking about today, Vic? We are talking about witches of pop culture, baby. Is that what we're talking about? I guess you could call it that. What did you want to call it? No, I think that's about right, I'm just, I'm just really excited. Well, okay. So I feel like I should start. Okay. The witch that you know today is not the witch or the reputation of the witch that has always been. The witch that they know today. Well, you know like the stereo witch. No, the stereotype that the media portrays of like people in green face who are old and angry and screaming at children throwing broomsticks around. You are a part of the patriarchy. That portrayal of a witcher is a little old me. So the reason we think of the witch as like an ugly old hag is actually because of the Christians trying to squash out paganism. Okay, well listen, I was reading an article today about how witches traditionally are either represented as like old hags or as like sexualized young women using their wiles to like beguile men. And that's a poem. Put that on the fridge. So traditionally witches were actually really just healers and midwives who would offer like herbal remedies in concoctions to their local village and would help deliver babies. So much so that like in I think it was like very in very I want to say like the 1600s. But in like the early stages of Christianity midwives were given the like go ahead by the priests to give final rights if babies were about to die. So that the babies would go to heaven. And so of course then the men in charge later realized that this was a lot of power to give women who they felt were performing witchcraft by delivering babies and doing herbal remedies and a lot of times obviously back in those days they there were like things for good luck you could do during the birth of a baby. And so they were like this is clearly witchcraft. I just feel like we've missed a step here. Like how did we get go from how did we go from women delivering babies to people being like you're a witch. So riddle me that. Well there I've always been there's always the tradition of you know the person it's the same person who makes your herbal medicine might make you something to boost your love life you know that kind of thing. And so some of them were witches that is true some of them were witches that did hex people. But a lot of them were just healers and the patriarchal Christian early crit the patriarchal early Christian religion felt threatened by this. And so they started persecuting midwives they put them on trial for being witches and ads where are you talking about like what time in history where are we not America. Not America. Europe and I believe like the 1516 hundreds yeah there's got land. Yeah there's a lot of great documentaries out there if you want to go. Have you read make bed. No I haven't again I'm about theater person. I actually I think I've read it once but I didn't really care. But yeah and so to make witches super unappealing they started painting them as these like old hags who were out to curse everyone which is why we have the ugly image portrayal of modern media another tool they used to villainize these women healers was to say oh they're like so sexualized they're gonna cut they're like having sex all the time they're dancing naked. Oh okay yeah they're like god forbid and and and that's where we get the other series. Right so because so they were like oh these these these wicked women will steal your husband and these wicked women will just their seductresses and their their flusies and so that's where the other stereotype of them being like just an over sexualized lump of meat. Now when you say that some of them were actually witches that's and stop explain yourself. Well obviously yeah which is paganism is the oldest religion and women in particular but also men but women have been mixing together mixing up potions performing rituals for good luck forever. I mean it's just it's just a part of like human nature. Yeah so some of them were like actual witches so some of them were as what I would categorize to be like actual witches and other's were just healers. What's sad is like when you persecute all midwives like this is it's actually who's gonna be birth in those babies. Exactly and so what happened was at the same time also this information is all from a book called which is nurses which is midwives I don't know so the three word combination in some order. Perthing babies used to be an entirely female dominated sport and as like modern medicine as we knew it know it today like was first getting started it was a very male dominated industry and so in order for these male doctors to get more control they had to get these midwives out of the delivery room. Can I tell you something insane? Sure. Get ready. My dad was born in 1953 in Missouri and and his mom was literally put under during labor and woke up and she had a baby. Yeah you should take a look at the documentary the business of being born it'll blow your mind like in the 50s what they would do is because women were fully sedated right but your body still like screams and kicks when even when you're sedated because you're giving birth and so they would like strap when they wouldn't let men first of all no men were allowed in the delivery room. Well they were smoking in the lobby right. No so they would like strap I'm not sure if this is what happened to your mom but like they were they were first of all was my mom or sorry your dad's mom. These women were they would like just strap them down and like leather bounds and so like them these men would pick up their like wives and their new babies and they'd be like why does my wife have bruises all over her arms and they'd be like mmm because she was like strap down like giving birth it was crazy yeah but this is basically like the persecution of witches and midwives is why we have a male dominated um medical industry. I just feel like I need you to go further into the origin of paganism. I just don't get it like you keep saying like it's the world's oldest religion and I'm like where like in Europe like where in Europe. Yeah so everywhere in Europe like it's the shortest. Well there's like Germanic paganism. Well I would categorize like the belief in like Greek gods as a more pagan religion than mainstream Christianity. They are it's a multi deity. Okay but like by pagan religion at like just when I picture paganism and I know this is probably incorrect. You're like you're already rolling your eyes. It's like sacrificing a goat, drawing a pentagram, dancing naked, ginseng like no no no. So there's a hundred different kinds of paganism. We're gonna bring Nina on the show and talk to her. Her um a lot of like she's she's from Serbia and they're like Serbian Orthodox Church. A lot of their traditions are rooted in like Serbian paganism with Jesus as a fun little bonus. I say paganism is the world's oldest religion because it does predate Christianity and it predates it predates all. They don't believe you. Sure that's fine but like so like the way the Germanic and also it's not like I believe it's like that's a fact. But so like when I say like paganism I do mean like worldwide of course the way the Irish pagan celebrated is much different than the way the German pagan celebrated which is different than like the Slavic pagans and how they celebrated but generally it is a worship of like something in nature. Yeah that's what that was my question is like what what are they worshiping. Yeah so um different it's usually um not monotheistic so there's no there's usually more than one god it's usually celebrates the turning of the the what we now call the wheel of the year but the seasons changing the harvests um yes solstice these things that we now view as sort of like oh these like scientific feats were magical um and so every it's celebrating harvest celebrating the changing of the seasons and each little mini faith has a different interpretation of what it meant but they all are generally believing and celebrating the same stuff. Do you watch Game of Thrones? I do not. Why am I not shocked? Jen just doesn't watch anything. I mean some witches dance naked but you can really do whatever you want. Okay let's do a fun little segment. Okay. I don't know how little it'll be where I go through some of the like most famous witches in pop culture and you tell me what you think about them. All right and I'll tell you what I think about them. Great. And together we will say things. The wicked witch of the west. Now let me tell you I saw okay first of all I have Have you ever seen it? - Yes, I have. - Okay. When I, I think I watched this when I was like five, six years old, okay? And I was terrified of not necessarily the witch, although I did think she was very scary. The flying monkeys, man. Oh my God. - My parents tried to show me the Wizard of Oz and I wouldn't, I screamed every time the flying monkeys were on camera. Okay, so what do you think about her? Obviously she is a part of the whole witch is being depicted as hags kind of a thing. But the other witch in the movie is beautiful. We thought it's opinions. - Well, I think it's really interesting that like the good witch is beautiful and the bad witch is ugly. I mean, I think that's just, there's just a sh*t on a feminist critique that just can explode right there. Do we ever, I'm just thinking about it and I don't know that we ever see them like perform magic. Do we? - No, no, no. - We do, we do, because the evil witch of the West is the wicked witch of the West. (laughing) - It's a literary sh*t, Victoria. Don't you know anything? - Okay, the wicked witch of the West does that thing with the poppies and she makes Dorothy fall asleep. And also she has that out, while I was about to say, she has that hourglass, but. - The crystal ball. - Well, she has a crystal ball too. I don't think the hourglass is enchanted. - I think what's interesting is, I don't think it's like the worst witch, at least there's a good witch, you know? It's like when the witch is the truest, purest form of a villain, I think it's when it's kind of a problem. I think it's an interesting to look at. If you wanted to take it to an allegory of dark magic, always breeding darkness and white magic, always breeding, like white, light magic. - What do you mean? - Like dark magic, turning you into an evil person and like, like, breeding darkness that way. - Yeah, yeah. - Why are witches always, well, not always, but why is there like a trope of them always being dressed in black? - I don't actually know the answer to that question. - It might have to do with like, sneaking out to do which, which, I'm sorry, Victoria just Googled it, and it's gothic dress code blog is the first thing that pops up. Great. Super. - This is saying a lot of stuff about how like, witches are in touch with darkness and the realm of death, but that's like, if you believe that. - I don't think I would say that. I think like, well, it was from gothic dress code blog. - I think if I were to, I would say like, because a lot of witchcraft had to be done in secret for a really long time, so like, sneaking out into the forest, or I do believe like, wearing black or white is helpful 'cause you have like a, there's a sector of magic called color magic. And so you might not wanna influence like your spells with the color you're wearing, but I'm not sure. - Okay, did you ever see, now I know it's a TV show from the '60s don't drag me, but it was also a like movie, I think like 10 or so years ago called The Witched. - I did not see it. (laughs) - I love that you're like, this is your testimony in front of Congress and you're like, I did not see it. Okay, well basically, I mean, honestly, I think I was like nine when the movie came out, so I don't remember it all though, well I went with my mom, Will Ferrell was in, it's Nicole Kidman. Okay, so when she like, wiggles her little nose, she does witchcraft. - Well, that's shocking. (laughs) - Yeah, I think that she is like, at least in the movie she was like married, or no, no, no, no, she was like interested in Will Ferrell, but I think in the TV show, she is actually married, and I don't think he knows that she has magical powers. And then there's like, she has like an uncle that's trapped in a mirror or something. - I think this might be a good example of like, (laughs) there being unrealistic expectations on which crap, like, you're not, no one I know, which I know, can just wiggle their nose and suddenly a house appears. Like that's kind of not how it works. Of course, I think that makes for a better story than usual witchcraft. I think if her husband doesn't know about her witchcraft, that might be an interesting conversation about like, having to, like, they call it being in the broom closet. - Shut up. - Yeah, that's like when you can't tell people you're a witch. - I am shook. - Okay, have you seen Hocus Pocus? - I have, but only once, when you were like smaller. - Oh no, I wasn't allowed to watch Hocus Pocus, are you kidding me? - Okay, when did you see it? - I saw it freshman year with my roommates. - Okay, so I watched it like two weeks ago for Halloween. People love this movie, Jen. People are like obsessed with this movie, it has like a cult following. I watched it, I thought it was really bad. I thought it was fun. I mean, I didn't have an immediate negative reaction. I think it's like, I think it holds a lot of nostalgia for people and that's why they like it so much. - Yeah, the nostalgia factor, but also it was just like, there were so many, first of all, I thought it was a Disney Channel original movie, I don't think it is. And so for me, I was like, wow, they are really mentioning that this kid is a virgin, a lot of times, for a D-com, but I don't think it is because Sarah Jessica Parker and Beton Middler isn't this, and why would they be on a D Disney Channel original? - Sarah Jessica Parker's in it. - She is the blonde witch? - No, she's not. Prove it right now. I wanna see evidence. - I'm shook. - Yeah, wait, let's see. Okay, that was in 1993, and Sex and the City came out in '98. That was a whole five years before she was in Sex and the City. - We should start a separate podcast about Sex and the City 'cause it's such so important to me. Really? Okay, the one show you want. - Yeah, my parents, sorry if you're listening to this. My parents, obviously I was allowed to watch it, so I would put it on on one channel, on E, E always had it on, and then I'd put something appropriate on the other channel, and then I would, if my parents walked in, I would do the last button thing, and I'm pretty sure Sex and the City is the only people, the only people who ever told me Sex was not going to send me directly to hell, was Sex and the City. - Wow, well, thanks Sarah Jessica Parker. What's also crazy is that Sarah Jessica Parker, she did that movie with Beth Midler in '93, right? And then she's in another movie called The First Wives Club, the called The First Wives Club, with Beth Midler in '96, where she plays, so Beth Midler, her husband leaves her for Sarah Jessica Parker. The skank, he leaves her for the slutty witch. Gasp. Oh, book of shadows. So this article says the only thing in Hocus Pocus, that's an all accurate to wicked practices, is the Sanderson Sister's spell book, which is probably intended to be their version of a book of shadows. - What would you like to explain what that is? - Yeah, a book of shadows is super easy, simple. Well, okay, I say that, and the wickets are gonna come for me. (laughing) Just very simply a book of shadows is like a book of spells that you may, that you sort of curate yourself. Some people use it as a straight up, just book of spells. Some people use it as like more of a witchy journal to document their witchy endeavors in. Okay, my other problem with that movie, was that I felt like they really picked and chose what like stereotypes to adhere to in the film. For example, they're like, we can't go into this graveyard, we can't step foot on the graveyard, which I've never heard of in my life before, but then they could fly over it and like come close to touching the ground with their broomsticks. Also, can witches fly over water? Because they did that a lot in this movie. - I don't, (laughing) again, I don't know any witches that literally fly on broomsticks, but I don't know any lore about which is not flying over water. - Why? - Practical magic? - I have not. - Okay, that's another Nicole Kidman movie with Sandra Bloc. This is actually, I feel like a really good movie, I think you would like it. It's all about these two sisters. And one of the sisters, she has like an abusive boyfriend. And so Sandra Bolic goes to save Nicole Kidman because obviously it's Nicole Kidman. I just feel like in every movie she's in, she has an abusive relationship happening. What I like the most about this movie, okay, I never finished the plot. So Sandra Bolic goes to help Nicole Kidman. If Sandra Bolic and Nicole Kidman accidentally kill this man, then they bring him back to life, but he's all messed up. And he tries to take over Nicole Kidman's body, he tries to possess her, and kill her because he wants to live with her in the afterlife. Very yes. And then Sandra Bolic gets the whole town, all the women in the town together, and they like save Nicole Kidman. It's a very pro female movie and I really like it. Well, I think like one of the pillars of witchcraft is feminism, so that certainly checks that box. I would have left the abuse of boyfriend dead, but that's just me. It's interesting too because it's like all the people in the town hate them because they're witches. And then when Sandra Bolic is like, "Listen, come over, we'll do like, until like all they ever wanted was to be included." There you go. One of my favorite things about this movie is that it's when the co-cognitive still married to Tom Cruise. Scientology is gross. (laughing) - I'm not even gonna apologize. (laughing) Okay. - How did you watch the original screen of the teenage witch in the '90s? - I did not. Witchcraft shows were banned in my house. - I just cannot believe you did you watch Full House. - Yes. (laughing) - Okay, so basically picture, no one on Full House is a witch. - No, but I'm just gonna say picture like Full House, but instead of three uncles or three men, it's two aunts. First of all, do you remember that episode of Full House where TJ has been eating disorder for a day? - Yes. - And she's like, then she faint, it doesn't she? She's like, me? Let me just eat this ice cube water pot that I made. Sabrina, the teenage witch had two elements which were banned in my house. First, witchcraft. Second, empowered women. (laughing) Okay, so what I loved about the show was that, basically she just got into these zany situations and there was an animatronic cat named Salem who talked and he was very sassy. - I'm also very sassy. (laughing) - That's a record show. - Okay, and I just finished watching the new, the chilling adventures of Sabrina, the teenage witch. I don't know if it's Sabrina, I think it's just Sabrina, the chilling adventures of Sabrina. And it's interesting. I feel like it's actually taught me a lot about the traditions of witchcraft, like what have you learned? Well, here's an interesting thing about the show, is that a lot of it is about like, trying to get Sabrina to sign her name in the devil's book. Basically that's the whole first season. It's like, she's having a 16th, you know, it's her 16th birthday, she just have her dark baptism and she refuses to sign her name in the devil's book and the rest of the season is like, the devil basically trying to like, trick her into sign, well not like trick her, but like getting her to sign the book because he wants Sabrina to be like his foot soldier on earth, which I don't know how it's gonna work out because she seems like, that's just really, I just took the mic. That is just really not an accurate portrayal of witchcraft, like at all. Like there is no Satan, they're like that's just not real. Like that, like, bagans don't believe in that. Wait, bagans don't believe in Satan. Satan literally is from, sorry, I'm getting mad. Satan is the fallen angel that left Christ. So why, how could a pagan believe in Satan? There was no Christianity yet. Okay, okay, let's all think it's not bad. Because, okay, what is interesting about, about Sabrina, (laughs) about Sabrina, the new Sabrina is that they do mention Christianity a lot and they're like the false god is like the Christian god. And, (laughs) I'm just having an anger in some way. What deity, like I don't, like clearly she's, okay, so she's trying to crack a deal with Satan, but like, okay, but they don't worship Satan. It's like basically they sign their name in the devil's book and then they get all of their full powers and eternal youth. And in exchange basically they just have to like, if Satan ever calls on them for like a favor, they have to complete it. It's a little like messy. That's not really what I was talking about when I meant like traditions, but now you've got me all flustered. Well, that's just glaring, the premise is glaringly inaccurate. What practices have you seen that you feel are accurate? First of all, it taught me a lot about familiars. Like having like a familiar, like an animal as a familiar. Yeah, yeah, sure. What does magic look like in this world? Like is she still just like pointing her finger in a catapoeir's or? Okay, no. So magic in this world is a lot more like, like in one episode, I don't want to get with spoiler. It's a lot of Latin. Like they'll say things in Latin. And like at one point she's like hugging Harvey and she like whisper something in Latin. And then like, there's, the magic looks like a lot of like wind-wushing. It's not like Harry Potter where it's like, oh, a spell's coming out of my wand. Is it still the kind of magic where like she waves her finger or wand and things like appear? Or is it like what? It's interesting that you say like, does she wave her finger and things appear because I don't think that's happened actually. I think it's more like, there are like, like Sabrina gets cursed with a blood curse at one point. And like, there's an element of voodoo in an episode which element of voodoo? What's it called when you have like a doll? Like a voodoo doll. A voodoo doll, yeah. A voodoo doll is used. What else? Yeah, so in that sense, I feel like it's more like, what we've been talking about, maybe. Sure. I'd have to see it. Neck from antsy? I don't know about it. They like bring someone back from the dead. Oh, boring. Okay. Okay, you didn't see the witch. I did not. I never jump the woods. Basically this movie is interesting because it's set in, like, what's that, James Town era? The 1600? Yeah, well, like you would know about it because you're from Virginia. I grew up going to James Town every single year for a class field trip. If you're listening to this Miss Marable, I'm still better and I don't like you. What I'm saying, basically, is that this takes place like before America was founded. I mean, and I don't even mean America. I mean, like before it was even like a real place. Colonial. No. No, colonial is probably the word you're looking for. But like, so you mean like before America, like before the declaration of independence, basically. They basically, this family gets banished from their community. Don't remember why. And it's right around the time that the young woman is going and the family is going through puberty. And so she's having like, you know, things happen to her body and her brother, like, is sexualizing her because they're the only family in this whole like 100 acres. The family thinks that she is a witch because the baby gets, like, the baby disappears and then a black goat shows up and kills the whole family. And she's left and she's like, well, I wasn't in which in the first place, but now that my family's gone, might as well become a witch because I can join all these awesome women and have all this freedom and power that I didn't have with my family. Wow. That's incredible. So why is it that like, do you know that why black goats are like typically like associated with satanic things? In the Wicked Faith, there is like a deity which does have horns. So I think like that's-- but it's not Satan, if that makes sense. But I think-- OK, well, I mean, in the chilling tells us a Sabrina, it's definitely-- I feel like it's definitely the devil. But it is like the devil is represented, at least a few times that we see him. It kind of is like a horned beast-like creature. Well, since I'm not Wicked, I can't-- I can't like-- I'm not qualified to speak on that deity specifically. But that is where the trope of all the pagans run into the woods, get naked, and dance in a fire round for the horned god. Like, that is where the trope comes from. It's not necessarily true. And that's not really a nuance to take. But yeah, but like horned animals-- like, I also think because so much of paganism has been distorted with really early Christians trying to eliminate it, so that Christianity could spread. Of course, like, they're going to put their image of Satan onto something that the pagans were worshiping. I think the other thing is like, Satan has always been represented with like horns. And so I think any association that they could draw between Satan and a pagan deity would be what they would do. OK, now, last, but certainly not least in my heart and the hearts of many, Harry Potter. I know you have watched the movies. I've read the books. I haven't seen it. Oh, oh, OK, great. You've read the books. I thought it was the other round. OK, so you're like are in deep. Did you love them? I have a lot of-- like, my childhood, I was doing little witchy things that I didn't know were witchy. So after I read Harry Potter, I set up a little potion-making station under my bed. And I would make potions. Yeah, and I'd whip it out and make potions after my parents put me to bed. And I would also like-- I kept all these journals, and I played Harry Potter all the time, and wrote down all the stuff I was learning in like Potions class. But yeah, but then my potion station got busted. And I got in trouble. OK, so what do you feel like, even though Harry Potter is the best thing that ever happened? Do you feel like it's also like a pretty one of like the worst or like a really poor representation of like modern day witch craft? Just because I feel like it is-- it doesn't really draw from any-- does it draw from-- because I feel like it's mostly just JK Rowling being like, this is my world. I created it. But obviously, you know, she didn't create witches. Well, I think there's like whenever do something like Harry Potter, there's gonna be things that align with paganism. Like any type of witchcraft is like low-key pagan aligned, but I don't, I mean it's not a, the thing that's great about Harry Potter is it's not a bad portrayal of witches. Like the witches are not being- Oh I see, to me. It's still inaccurate. I mean like again, some witches do use wands, but like I don't, but like you know it, but it's not, no one is like saying magic words and then a dog appears, right? If that's not going to happen to Harry Potter? You can summon things in Harry Potter. Sure, but like that's not, you can't do that IRL. Like that's what that's all I was saying. Like I think Harry Potter is net positive for the witch community because it's not portraying all witches is evil, which is like what we get a lot of the time. It also exists like, like you're no one's in, I guess there's Voldemort, but no one's like definitively like in talks with Satan if they practice witchcraft, you know? It's like even Voldemort who is like the bad character in the books. He's bad because like he's just like that's the way, well I guess this is a discussion of like, mature versus nurture, but it's not like he's like evil because like he's yeah, in talks with Satan, he's just evil because like that's his agenda, like that's his agenda, not like anyone else's. Yeah. Yeah, I could do a whole episode on how much I love Harry Potter like, oh my god, it's so amazing. I enjoyed Harry Potter. It wasn't the best thing that ever happened to you. I was much more obsessed with Twilight. I was a twi hard. I know. I know. That is disgusting. I mean, like okay, if you like Twilight, I mean I read Twilight, like we all liked Twilight, but Twilight was not better than Harry Potter. Oh, I don't still like Twilight. Twilight is an emotionally abusive relationship, but I did read Breaking Dawn 16 times. Wow. Okay. Topic of debate. Do you think that Hermione didn't belong with Ron and she should have ended up with Harry? 100% yes. Shut up. I am the complete opposite. I cannot believe you just said that. Why do you think she belonged to Harry? Harry was so annoying. I tell you, Harry would not have gotten through his first year at Hogwarts who would have died without Hermione and Ron. And he just whines. The whole series. Well, his parents are dead. I don't know. I just think Ron's kind of a pussy. So see, I feel like I always identified with Ron because I was like, oh, he's the funny one. Like I would be the funny one. Well, there you go. Okay, fine. I really can't. I don't remember it because I read it so a lot ago, but like I remember being disappointed because I just, I like it when the two powerhouses get together. You know what I mean? Like yes, but I just feel, well, it's also difficult because at the end of the last book, they're all 17 years old. Like when I was 17 years old and I was seeing people in relationships in high school, I was like, those are not relationships that are going to last. And yet Jake Heraldling has us believe that what is it 17 years later, all as well and they're all still together. It wants to problem with all media, right? Everyone just like almost all media is like these two high schoolers are going to end up together forever, which sometimes happens. But it's usually a bad choice. You know who I'm talking to. You know who you are. You know, it is interesting. They're all super young and in the books, Harry's parents are like only like 22, 23 when they die and in the movies, they portray them in their 40s. Well, when you don't use protection, you have a baby at 22, 23. I mean, it's just really likely. This is a witchy PSA that you should wrap it before you tap it. I know. We're straight. Obviously mine is Harry Potter. That's my favorite like witchcraft world world, you know, what, but do you have a series or a TV show or like a representation to like kind of wrap it up like of witches in the media that you would say like that's your favorite? You know, when I asked you to tell me what we were talking about today, I assumed I would get the surprise question ahead of time. I mean to be perfectly honest, I don't think I've seen like what I would consider to be a good portrayal of which is in the media. I think that there's non-damaging portrayals of which is in the media, but I don't think there's anything that's like an accurate portrayal of what modern paganism, wika, what any of that looks like. There's a ton of excellent books about like non, I call it witch nonfiction. There's a ton of wonderful books out there that you can go read about modern witchcraft. I think those, if you're interested, I think you're better suited going to a bookstore than a movie theater. Well, from someone who's never read the cruise ball. Can I tell you I was in the cruise ball, I was in eighth grade. Well, that's shocking. I will say like if you want to learn more about witchcraft and you don't want to go and you don't want to read a book, there's a ton of like witch YouTubers who are really great to look at. Whoa, I didn't even realize that was a thing. I love a good YouTube channel. Well now you know. The more you know with Jen. I'm Vic and I'm Jen and that's the Spook. I hate it. I hate it.