Ep 4: Discussing August Underground and The Final Interview w/ Fred Vogel

[Music] Hello and welcome to the uneasy terrain Explorers Club podcast. I'm your host Jonathan Doe and I'm sitting here over Skype with the one and only Fred Vogel. The mastermind behind the August Underground trilogy, the founder of TOTAG Pictures and the director of his latest film, The Final Interview. How are you doing today, sir? I'm doing good. How are you? Pretty good. I appreciate you taking the time to sit and talk with me today. No problem. I wanted to kind of start from the beginning. You started your career as a special effects artist teaching at the Tom Savini makeup school before you ultimately ended up deciding to make your first film. And I was wondering what was it that inspired you or gravitated you towards that kind of work? Well, I've always been in to horror from the time I was like five years old. I saw Frankie Stein for the first time. And that kind of put me right on the path of like loving the macabre. So, you know, I started watching lots, you know, lots of movies and, you know, any book that I could find on horror and in horror leads, the special effects makeup and movies. So, you know, growing up in the early 80s, mid 80s, it was like the heyday of the special effects artist and guys like, you know, Tom Savini and Rick Baker and Rob Boateen. You know, those guys were my heroes. So, I pretty much stayed on that path. I knew that I had a study art to get there. And I always did that. So, I was always pretty good at drawing and painting and then sculpting. So, that kind of got me, you know, got me rolling. Awesome. Were there any particular films like what was your evolution from like seeing Frankie Stein into getting into more extreme and underground cinema? So, so Frankie Stein early. And then I was very lucky that my mom, she kind of, she told my local video store that I can pretty much rent anything that I wanted. So, when, you know, you little kids weren't allowed to rent art or rated horror movies, I was allowed to. And because my mom knew that I got it, you know, these are special effects. I was fascinated by it. I was fascinated by the artistry of moviemaking. And, you know, going from, you know, picking up every movie on the shelf. So, you know, at that moment in time, you know, you had like the birth of the Nightmare on Home Street movies, Friday the 13th films, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And as you, you know, as you grab movies on the shelf, you'll see stuff that's, you know, like, ooh, I spit on your grave or last house on the left. And you're like, these movies get even darker. And, you know, I was more attracted to that as well. But I also love, you know, I also love a lot of exploitation films. A lot of comedies. You know, the '80s was a really great time for movies. I don't know if it's just being biased because that's the time I grew up and I was watching a lot of stuff. But I think that there is a lot of really great choices made from a lot of filmmakers making some really interesting stuff. And so in 2001, you made your first feature film, "August Underground." And what was your inspiration behind making that film? And was it challenging to find actors willing to participate in the kind of content that that film has? So when I was teaching, I was making little movies in college with my buddies. So I always knew that eventually I was going to make a movie. And, you know, I moved from New Jersey to Pittsburgh because Pittsburgh was the home of Tom Savini and George Romero. And I knew that I could probably shine and work with those guys. Like, that was really like the goal. It was like, "Move to Pittsburgh, study special effects, go work with Tom Savini and George Romero." And I wrote a zombie script because you know Romero is obviously the master of the zombie movies. And I wanted to kind of do my own trilogy. But it was just too difficult to raise that kind of money. So I was teaching and I knew that my special effects were pretty good. And if I can just figure out a way to make something that will be kind of on the keep, you know, that might be my breakaway end. And at that moment in time and history, the late 1990s and early 2000s, anything shot on video looked kind of crappy. But there was definitely movies being shot on video and it was cheaper than shooting on film. And I'm like, "Well, I know I can forward shooting on video. I just got to figure out, you know, a concept that'll work." And at the time when I was teaching a few of my students were writing to serial killers. Richard Romero has Charles Manson, you know, the whole bunch. And it really bothered me because as much as I'm, you know, fascinated by why serial killers do what they do and the mindset these people have, you know, why, what if somebody, you know, killed your mom? You know, there's people that are fans about that kind of stuff. So I was just like, you know, what I want to make something that really shows what a serial killer is. Or like, you know, so I just studied and I researched and I read every book that I can find. You know, from that August Underground was born. And as the for finding actors, you know, I didn't have any money. It was anybody that I could talk into doing this. And it was, you know, it was friends. It was, you know, people I'd never met before that, you know, was like, "Hey, you want to be in a movie?" Oh, yeah. So, you know, I definitely ran the gamut with, you know, all different kinds of people making that movie. One scene that really stood out to me is a scene where you, or your character goes up to an apartment and assaults and ends up killing an old woman. And I was wondering where you found a, a woman that would be willing to do that. Oh, that's my grandma. So, you know, I was, I was very supported by my family and my arts. So my mom supported me a lot. And my grandmother's both supported me. And I remember asking my grandma, like, grandma, you know, like, I really want to do this scene with you where, you know, I kill you. Because you don't really see old people getting killed in movies. You know, when I thought that would be really disturbing. And like, you know, that's what, you know, August Underground is all about that is like, what can I, you know, what scenes can I make that will be like people have never seen before. So she was like, sure, whatever you want to do when she was 81 years old at the time. And I remember that scene was all done in one long take in the movie. It's edited because it was just too long. It actually was like, I, you know, I help her in the house and the cameraman sits in the car and he waits the whole time talking to himself and then goes up into the house. And like, I had to literally get my grandma upstairs that the kitchen was already dressed like with the food all over the floor and everything. So all she had to do was just lie down and, you know, let me put the fake blood on her. And I remember right before we did the scene on my grandma, like, I'm going to take out your dentures and play with them. She laughed at me and was like, whatever you want to do, sweetie. And again, I just think it makes for one of those really haunting scenes that you never really seen in a movie before. Yeah. I mean, it's it gives that sense of real like realism. Like I honestly feel like you could probably give that to an unknowing person and they would probably think it was real. Well, that's the whole thing with August Underground is that, you know, if the scenes didn't come off as real, then they weren't going in the movie. Yeah, you know, like for me to pull off the trick of what August Underground is, the cinema verite, home video, found footage, whatever the whatever you want to call it. I knew that I had to make these things look completely authentic. And there were times where you know, should kind of came off wrong or, you know, I wasn't feeling it and you just didn't make it into the movie. And it's been like that with it's like that with all of my movies. Like when it comes to like having things authentic and being real, you know, I play in that realm. I want my violence to look real. I want my scenarios to feel real. So. You definitely pulled it off from whatever red. It's my understanding that once the film was completed Alan Peters who helped you make the film wanted to pull his name from the project because of its brutality. And you ended up having to abandon your original marketing campaign of leaving VHS tapes of the film and random locations for people to find. And I was wondering if you could tell us the accuracy of those claims and how the film ultimately ended up being distributed. That's all true. So Alan Peters was kind of like my partner and crime during the making of the movie. You know, he was, you know, one of my best friends at the time. He believed in what I was trying to do and wanted to get behind it. He wanted to make movies. But he was just in a different place than I was. I was really like, fuck it, let's just do it. You know, 22, 23 years old. You know, he was the same age, but he had a kid. He was married. I think he felt like there was more to lose for him. You know, this little movie that we made for no money was just so vile and foul and stuff. And I just think, you know, when I first started sending review copies of August 100, round out and people are like, what the fuck is this? Like nobody's seen anything like it at the time. And people are like, do I need to call the cops on you for sending me this? And I think that really scared him a lot. And especially when, you know, the whole thing of like, I want to drop this off. You know, I just finished college. I just started teaching at the time of Tom's of any school. So all of like my high school friends are now, you know, seniors in college are graduated, living all across the country. I was going to get everybody to help me just drop these tapes off. And I was, you know, willing to totally get arrested and caught for them. And what a fucking publicity stunt that would be. Yeah. And I was beginning to that stuff, man. Like the Blair Witch really opened the door and showed me to make a movie for no money. But if you got a really good marketing campaign, you know, people will pay attention. And I'm also a huge fan of wrestling. So like, I know you need a kind of, you need a gimmick. You need some things to kind of like pull people in. So I was just influenced by all that at the time. And unfortunately, when I wasn't able to drop the tapes off because I, because I'm 9/11 and I would have gotten arrested big time. And not just like a day in jail until it was all, oh, it's just just Fred making a movie. You know, the world was in pretty much a, you know, a crazy state of time at that moment. And I ended up meeting Rod Gideano who is the owner of Rue Morgan magazine at a horror convention that I was selling August, August, August, I had a grant out of my backpack. And I gave him a copy. And it was just a blind tape and some blood on it. Said, oh, and I hear his my card. And about a week later, he contacted me and was just like, holy shit, he's like, I'm going to put you on the cover with Rob Zombie. He's like, I don't know. I've never seen anything like this. I literally brought, you know, everybody who works for me in to watch some of this and people were like ready to vomit and running out of the room. And, you know, that was really impressive because at the time, the only people that have seen the movie where the people that I sent the movie out for out to review, or my friends, and my friends would be like, oh, Fred, you're gross. You know, they just saw me because they knew who I, they knew that it's just Freddie Vogel, you know. But the people who didn't know me, it really terrified them because it just showed that, you know, the guy from down the street could be, you know, having a girl in his basement right now tied up sitting in her own ship with her nipple cut off. I mean, that was, that was my experience. I mean, I thought I was like this bad ass because I'd like watch Cannibal Holocaust and seen like I spit on your grave. And then I found, I got a copy of August Underdown, and I put it on in that opening, that opening scene where you guys walk down into the basement, and she's tied to the chair. Like, I turned it off. Like, I was like, this is too fucking mean spirited. Like, I know this. But then it was like looming in my mind, like haunting me. Like, are you really this big of a pussy that you're not gonna fucking sit and watch this movie? And so I had to like go back and I watched it in segments. And I finally finished it. And it was kind of like a badge of honor. Like, it was a whole new level when it came to like extreme exploitation films. So. And it is that, you know, August Underground is that movie. It's, you know, for me, it was Cannibal Holocaust or Henry Portrait of serial killer, you know. The next generation of people looking for something extreme, you know, there were some movies that came out. Like Eric Stanzi's scrapbook, you know, came out before August Underground. But it just so happened that August Underground just was just so realistic and so nihilistic. And that opening scene, I knew that I had a punchy right in the face as soon as the movie started. And, you know, the look of the movie, like the degrading of the tape. All of that stuff was just, you know, it helped the film just have that really authentic look. And, you know, we've all seen home videos before and they just start and stop whenever the camera turns off. There was no real narrative to them. And I knew that had to be, you know, one of the things that, you know, how the movie together was like, okay, like I still wanted to tell a story. But I had to make it vague enough to where it still was a home video when not just a bunch of scenes put together. And that's what, you know, it always bothers me when people are like, you know, these movies are, you know, there's no story behind them and there's, you know, what are these things? And if you really pay attention, you know, there's stories in all of them, you know? Yeah, I mean, I mean, looking at the whole trilogy as a whole, like you can definitely see that there's kind of like, it's like a big character study of these people and they're then falling apart. Their lifestyle is not functional. So, in 2003, you would release the sequel to August Underground with August Underground's Mortem, but it's my understanding that you never intended to make a sequel to the film. And I was wondering what factors ultimately resulted in that sequel being made? What happened with that was, so, Raggedino for Remord was friends with Killjoy from Necrophasia. So, when Ron saw the movie, he was, he contacted pretty much everybody he knew that was into extreme stuff. It was like, you know, you got to see this movie, this guy in Pittsburgh made. So, I get a call from Killjoy and I had never heard of Necrophasia before. And, you know, he told me who he was and he's like, he's like, hey, can you send me a copy of August Underground? And at that moment, Alan just left. I didn't know what I was going to do. Like, you know, the movie was kind of just out of standstill. And I was kind of waiting for the Remord article to hit. So, I didn't know what was really going to happen. And he's just like, well, I'm going to send you a package of Necrophasia stuff. So, you kind of know that I'm a jit. And if you can, send me the movie. So, he sent me this package, a bunch of records and t-shirts. So, I got to see who Necrophasia was and it was pretty cool because, like, Phil and Samo for Pantera was in the band at that moment in time. You know, Jim Van Beber was making their music videos and I heard him Jim Van Beber. And Killjoy and I kind of hit it off. I said, I said him a copy of August Underground with like an old wrestling tape. So, I probably started off with like a WWF, you know, WrestleMania. And then August Underground plays. But that's the way that I was sending the amount at the time. Like, I was just using all the old crappy videotapes that I had at home and I would just dub shit on to them and send them out. But also, at that time, my best friend in college, Jeremy Cruz, we were talking about starting something. And then I met this other dude at the local video store who was also a filmmaker. His name was Michael Schneider. And he was making movies and it was just kind of like the right time to like, you know, join forces with all these creative people in Pittsburgh. And, you know, we kind of all got together and we're like, hey, we're going to do this thing. And, you know, I got this August Underground thing that's, you know, people are talking about like, let's kind of use this. And that's what Killjoy wanted. He wanted to do a video for Necrophasia that felt like an August Underground movie and wanted my character in it. So, that's how it all started was starting off doing this music video for Necrophasia. We just wanted to have all these different scenes. And as we started shooting this video for Necrophasia, another put piece of the puzzle comes in and that's Christie Wiles. And, you know, this girl is an amazing artist. And, you know, she was crazy and fun. And, you know, I know when she saw August Underground for the first time, it really freaked her out because she thought it was real. You know, like when she saw that, I was not that and I was doing these videos and things were starting to happen. She wanted to get involved. And again, it was this, all these different ingredients kind of coming together that would eventually be like the early stages of what TOTAG became. And then even Shelby, my wife, came in around that time as well, doing like the making of all these scenes for what would become August Underground's Mortem. And you know, Killjoy was the one that was like, hey, let's, you should, we should just really just do this as a sequel. And, um, I was like, oh man, like, I don't know if I want to do a sequel. Like, I wanted to make this one movie and then I wanted to go and make something else. But, uh, it was just a no-brainer. You know what I mean? Like, we were doing these things that, you know, the art was really popular. at the time and the people were being creative. The scenes Michael was coming up with and Christie was coming up with and the effects that Jeremy was coming up with. I was all starting to come together and that's really what builds August Underground's Mortem. You talked a little bit about a willingness to get arrested when you were doing the first August Underground film until the whole 9/11 thing happened. But there's some really like infamous scenes in Mortem specifically the bathtub scene and I was wondering if you guys sat and watched that and were like, are we going to get in legal trouble for this? Absolutely. Absolutely. It brought me to tears the first time I saw it because it was so powerful and I remember it was like watching it for the first time and this, you know, the sound design and that is dog really going on. Everything that you hear in there, like just the TVs and the noise and the dog barking and the screaming and you know all that stuff was really happening and it was just super, it was, it was, it was, it was this crew is crazy. And I remember like that day we had Arda and Jir from Ultra Violent on set doing an on-piece report. So he was literally like right outside that room, you know. So there's like this crazy chaos going on with this last scene by we have like an on-set reporter that day. But you know, it was one of those things where we again were just, you know, August on the ground kind of opened the door to this world and you know, everybody was just like trying to cram as much in as possible and I think that's why the movie is just so chaotic and it's so brutal. It's just because there was no fucks given. It was just like let's just go and you know, oh, you, Christie was like, I got these girls out of let me throw up on them. We're like, all right, let's do it. You know, the more fucked up that it could be, the more we were willing to go. The thing was, is that Jeremy and I, we were more filmmaker based. You know, we were about making sure everybody was safe and it's still the movie. You don't have to hurt yourself or do anything silly like that. But you know, Christie and Michael at the time were very, very method and you know, they would take it to the next level on a lot of stuff where it was just, it was hard for me. You know, it's like, wait, we don't need to, you don't need to cut yourself. Like Jeremy can put some fake, you put on a fake knife and it'll look just as real. But you know, again, it was just, it was just that moment at the time of punk rock filmmaking, you know, that's really what it was. It was just a bunch of young people with no fucks to give. Let's, let's terrify the world. That's what August Underground's Mortem is. I mean, that's definitely true. So the scenes where they're cutting themselves, those are all then really cutting themselves. That's legit. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. So there's a rumor that while you were traveling up to Canada for a convention that you were arrested for transporting copies of August Underground and August Underground's Mortem. And I was wondering if you could give us any light on whether that's true and if it is true, like what are the details about what happened with that? It is true. I was arrested and detained at the Canadian border. I was going in to do an autograph signing with Rumorg up in Toronto at their festival of fear and we were doing a makeup for Clyde Barker. We were doing a Cinnabite makeup. So you know, the three days prior, no sleep building this giant costume, you know, to do on Christie, Jeremy and Shelby and myself, we know working on getting this makeup together and then getting so excited to release the snuff additions up in Toronto. So how it worked was with this August Underground's Mortem came out first on DVD and prior to that, I did 200 VHS tapes of August Underground, but I was waiting to put this super August Underground special edition out. So we put out August Underground's Mortem August Underground wasn't available on DVD. I think that's why August Underground's Mortem has that popularity to it because it was our first DVD that people started to see. But I was super stoked about people getting to see this, you know, awesome, two-disc August Underground DVD that we are making and we are crossing going into the border and I was detained. And why I was detained is because I'm on the FBI list. August Underground was first coming out. I sent the movie to a lot of film festivals at the time and some countries have different of sanity laws. So when I sent the movie to the Fantasia Film Festival in Montreal, those guys were already on the list because they were showing movies like Nacho Ser does Aftermath and some country's cruelty and films like that. So the FBI was just looking for shit. So my name gets put on the list. I get in trouble for bringing in this smut into the country and that's why they didn't want me in or my movies in. But after being detained for like 16 hours, they called somebody from Ottawa down and did a background check and saw that I was teaching college and doing all this stuff and they're like this guy is not, I had my portfolio. I'm like, look, this girl, that's my girlfriend standing over there in the corner. But they have rules and they have the rules and they have the rules that they have to stand by and they just denated let me in. So when I had a call, rumor could be like, yo guys, I'm arrested here at the border, something needs to happen. Those guys did everything they could to help and I finally was released. But they wouldn't let me in with any of my merchandise. So I went up to the rumor festival of fear with no movies at all. That sucked because that probably would have like put some money back in our pockets because everything that TOTAG does is all self-financed. So when we put out $3,000, that's a lot of money. And we were hoping to make a lot of money selling the movie up there because Canada's amazing fans of horror. So we were hoping to be really good for us, but unfortunately it wasn't for me. Does that currently give you, like you still currently have problems traveling because of that or is all that kind of resolved now? Everything's been pretty good. You know, when I go into Canada, it's been a while. It's been probably six, seven years since I've been into Canada, but there hasn't been a problem. I just try not to bring my movies up there. Or if I need to, you know, I'll send them early and, you know, not take them with me crossing it. Yeah. They just don't like you bringing in shit, you know what I mean? They don't want you to bring in your smut. You can make fucking nasty movies in Canada if you're Canadian. Yeah. You know, if you're a filmmaker from Pittsburgh and you're bringing in your smut, they don't want anything of it. So my next question is there are currently two different cuts of Mortem that are available. There's the release that you put out through TOTAG and then there's a cut that Michael Schneider released through his company Maggett Films. And I was wondering if you could tell us the difference between these two cuts and why these two cuts exist? So Michael was pretty much the editor when we are making August Underground's Mortem. So he was, you know, kind of putting all his stuff together. And at the time, again, I was just like, oh, this is a cis music video. I really wasn't, I was really wasn't all about it. And I ended up going over to Europe when Necrofeja, the shooting documentary over there called success. And when I came back, August Underground's Mortem was edited. So I watched it and I was like, okay, you know, wow, there's a lot of, there's a lot of Michael in this movie and not a lot of Fred in this movie. And I remember when people started watching it, they were like, Fred, how can you not in this? Like August Underground is you and I'm like, I don't even care, whatever. But then I started to care. And I'm like, wait a minute. Well, this is, you know, August Underground is mine. This is my franchise here. Like I need to, you know, take back what, you know, what is mine? And I didn't have the creative input that I should. So it was decided, you know, that Michael wasn't going to be working with us anymore. So Christi, Jeremy and Shelby and myself, we ended up making total genimate and becoming a corporation. And you know, we were like, well, we're going to take back this movie because it's not his August Underground is mine. And we're going to fix this because Jeremy wasn't happy. Christi wasn't happy with what Michael was the cut that Michael had. So we ended up shooting some scenes that really make the movie. Because if you watched the mega cut and if you watch the tote cut, you're definitely more of a story arc. You know that the Christi character. his brother is maggot and she's fucking him and she and I'm in like there's drama because of that with my character So there was like little pieces that I went in and reshot some stuff that really helped make the movie work Where I felt Michael's cut was just clip after clip after clip after clip of just Vileness, you know and To me it was more important to show a little bit more story and show less dick You know what I mean? I think you know Michael's got Michael has himself showed his dick a lot in the movie But again, it was just you know You have these young artists all working together, you know, and they're in Europe and they're putting everything into it Like Michael is putting a hundred percent into it You know, I was putting a hundred percent into it even though that I just didn't know what I wanted is to be yet But the ball was just moving so fast and I went then I get sucked away to Europe You know when I come back and I'm my girlfriend at the time like I'm feeling these things for her that I want to marry her and You know my life was just going crazy, you know, so It just didn't work out creatively with To tag and Michael Schneider So to tag went on and was just like listen, you know like this is this is our movie and you know he knew that But he ended up like kind of boot lagging his own version and people started seeing it and It got to the point to where like you know, we had our lawyers send you know send a letter Saying you know season to cis and stop and then then we thought about it And then we're just like you know what like let him put it out like you know, whatever he worked hard He made his own thing and there's a deer's a moment in time where him and I did not get along with each other And it was it was kind of uncomfortable Both being from the same city and you're running to you're running to each other at different you know events And they were just you'd be that hostility, you know, I mean yeah because you know he had his own thoughts about me And I had my own thoughts about him and eventually we ended up going out to lunch and talking about everything and working things out And it was just again At that moment in time when you're a kid when you're in your 20s. It's hard to express yourself and be open You know when you're in your 30s and you in you open up that can again It's easier to talk about and that's really what it was it was just you know at that moment in time he was going through some Heavy duty shit with his family. I was going through some heavy duty shit everybody was Christy Jeremy. You shall be like we all were Because you know being toe tag is was was being a punk band, you know, we all lived in the same house When we made enough, you know, we all ate shared food we did everything and just put everything that we could back into our art and You know when you're a starting artist and your art is he tampered with or you feel like it's not getting the the deserves that it gets it It makes it it could put some bad shit into your head So, you know, that's that's really what all that was all about But everything's all good. Yeah, it's awesome that you guys were able to kind of like bury the hatchet and Yeah, because he's a talented filmmaker, you know, I mean he came to them he came to one of my screening of The final interview and I was so happy to see him, you know and Like before all the bullshit that happened with you know August undergrounds mordon with him and you know him in toe tag and myself whatever I was a fan his you know, what I mean like I when I saw his first movie my crepidus and uh um I was shit tribute to sanity Uh, you know, I was a fan. I was just like, you know, this guy's you know, this guy's super talented and he was more of an art tour You know, he edited and wrote and did the score and acted and did fucking everything Where I'm a director and a producer so like I You know, I get to move I get the money behind it and I get to put the people together and I create it and then I direct it You know, that's a smile thing and then I trust my cameraman and my sound guys and You know the rest of the team to work where Michael is very just like a one-man band. Yeah, so I think that's kind of that was another piece of the puzzle That wasn't working for us as a whole at that time As we are a group Well, uh talking about toe tag once you guys kind of like established as a as a company You began working uh doing effects for nick polo's murder set pieces and I was wondering how you guys got involved with Polo and that project and and what it was like working on set for that film A raggedino again from room war new nick nick made a movie called nut bag And nick was getting ready to make this new movie called murder set pieces and he wanted you know effects and Um when that was a way in Europe He contacted toe tag and was able to get a copy of august underground and august underground's mortem and when I got back You know he was ready to To hire us. He's just like why I saw the movies and um I really want with you guys did in this but we're gonna shoot it on 35 millimeter So to us we're like holy shit like that's real movies like we're just making these little you know shot on video Movies that nobody's gonna see you know this guy is making a two million dollar movie shot on film and what you know Gunnar Hanson's gonna be in it and Tony Todd's gonna be in it and So we were just like fuck yeah, let's let's go to Vegas and do that um You know nick Nick is a fan of horror movies and I just a fan of movies in general too. So I we hit it off You know loving movies and I love I love people who we can just talk shop about film all kinds of film and Nick was definitely one of those guys Um but Nick was also he wasn't he wasn't the healthiest dude, you know and That playing the film I think it was a little hard because he just wanted he wouldn't feel good or whatever and Um it kind of helped him and played brought them around down a little bit And it was just really difficult like because We were in Las Vegas for months living in this million dollar mansion But there was like no furniture in it. No nothing. I was literally sleeping In the master bedroom closet because it was the only room that was dark enough because we would work all through the night Because Vegas is like 115 degrees in the daytime So we would work at night when it was cooler and then sleep all day. We're like fucking vampires And the only room that yeah, there is no curtains in the house So like the only rooms that were dark was the closet, you know So I was pretty much like living in this closet the whole time But I always say murder set pieces was one of my best and worst experiences ever because It was my first time being paid as a special effects artist making like real money I met some people that I cherish to this day on that movie um It was it was a lot of fun, but again it was a lot of stress and it was a lot of bullshit It was a lot of you know There's deaf there's there's problems, you know Chemistry problems with people You know who who looked at us as we you know we were like little kids You know our camera crew was older than us the DP was older than us and You know he saw Jeremy and I and our other guy Ricky at the time as these kids You know and he's like well, I'm not gonna listen to you kids and we're like no dude This is how you do these special effects like this is what we do So that was interesting. I Mean I think how the effects turned out in that film is pretty awesome I mean you guys made some really amazing sets in that film So even with all those challenges. I think it in execution was turned out pretty well I think we did some really great work, you know, and it was a big huge learning experience You know word Vegas. We don't have our own supply, you know, it's like you have to figure out We're gonna go off supplies. You're in a different city like you know, I never knew fucking most Vegas so Yeah, but you know all movies have problems like you know nothing's ever perfect You're always gonna run into something the thing is is that when you're a filmmaker You need to be a problem solver. You need to be able to you know turn on a dime and fix the problem So you're not just standing there when you're taking your hand and being like what the fuck we gonna do Yeah, so You know there was definitely there's definitely a lot of that because you know it was just It was just challenging with all the shit that was going on at the time So in 2006 you would release your third film the Reds and Tower and I was just curious like what was your inspiration kind of behind that film because it had It kind of grabs at so many different sub genres within horror. I mean you've got the Possession element you've got the kind of teen slasher element going on and I was just wondering uh what inspiration You Drive from to make that film So we just get we get back from doing murder set pieces. We got some money in our pocket um, we Open a studio in Pittsburgh and It's like all right. No, we're gonna make the next movie. What's it gonna be? And Last thing I wanted to do is make a fucking other August underground movie I really wanted to show people that I can I'm not just like one trick pony that just makes these snuff movies like I want to make a fucking real movie And um one of the guys that we met on murder set pieces his name is Shane Sauer and he he was a grip on murder set pieces But he was a DP as well So I told him I might do when I get back. I'm gonna write a script and And I'm gonna call you and we're gonna make a fucking movie. So when we get back to Pittsburgh, again, TOTAG is like a band, you know, it's a group. There's, you know, everybody puts in input and we, you know, we try to make stuff. And I was a fan of Slasher Films and Jeremy is a fan of possession movies. And so we knew that we wanted to just like make our first, maybe if TOTAG made a mainstream movie, that was the goal behind it. It was like, we're gonna make a TOTAG mainstream movie. And that's what we did. You know, we put everything we loved into it and Shelby and I wrote the script. And, you know, Jeremy and Kristi, you know, had their input in as well. I mean, it was a, it was a definitely collaborative piece. But we built all the, you know, the sets inside our studio. Everything pretty much is inside of our studio that we shot. And it was, it was cool 'cause we brought back, I brought back to like the LeBonte brothers who were in August underground. And, you know, it was just really great to make something that was a little bigger and it was a huge learning experience for us too. You know, it was the first time we hired a sound guy. You know, it was the first time we, you know, we went out of color corrected. It was the first time we, you know, I went to Chicago and went out of sound design done on it. I had Scott Hall and Steve, you know, from Pig Destroyer and Steve Moore from the band zombie doing the score. I mean, it was, it was a big deal for us. And it was gonna, it was, I looked at it, this is gonna be the film that's gonna, you know, take us to that next level. - I mean, the, I was so impressed when I sat down and watched that film. It's clearly such a larger production and it's a lot more, it's just a big change. And I was wondering what challenges did you face making this larger production film than like your previous August underground films? I mean, you acted in August underground, but you also acted in the Reds and Tower. But on top of that, you're tackling all these other people involved with that larger project. And I was wondering, well, what challenges did you face making that film? - There was a lot of challenges, you know, there's a really great documentary the making of the Reds and Tower on the five disc DVD that we put out. I don't know if you got a chance to see that. - I have the five disc one, but I haven't watched all the special features on the disc yet. - Oh, well, please, yeah, please watch the second disc. There's like a two hour documentary of how we made it. But long story short, yes, that, you know, there's always challenges. I mean, you have an ensemble of kids, you know, and the thing was, it was like, we were trying to shoot as much as we can. So I would, even if the kids might not work, some of the kids might not have worked that day, they were still coming in because if I, if we've got around to it, we were shooting it. My disc schedule was kind of a little bit lax because we just were like, how much can we get? Then my sound guy, he was a union guy. So he would only work 12 hours where we would work 18 hours, 19 hours, you know, like I would have to be like, okay, now we're doing M.O.S. no sound after those 12 hours. And we would keep shooting, doing all different kinds of shit, you know, I didn't, to me, I'm like, how come this motherfucker won't keep working? And we're all working, you know, but it again, it was just that, you know, we're a union hungry, you know, filmmakers and this is a guy that's been doing it 30 years. That's just like, this is my job. I come in, I get your, get your really good sound and then I fucking go home. So, you know, you learned a lot of shit that way. Jeremy and Chris, you know, building the sets and, I mean, it was just amazing watching all that stuff, you know, being built and, you know, getting the guts shipped in from New Jersey and, the make ups that we were doing, you know, I mean, there's the period piece where we needed the, it to look old with the, hey, I mean, it was just, there was just a lot of stuff. And I mean, this movie was made by like nine people, you know what I mean? It was literally everybody wearing 30 fucking hats. So, that's probably the most challenging about it was, it was like this really huge movie that we weren't ready for, but we killed it because we were just so hungry and we knew that we wanted to make this happen. And so, after you finished the Red Sin Tower, you moved on and began production on the third and final installment in the August Underground Universe with August Underground's penance. And I was wondering what inspired you to turn the August Underground films into a trilogy? I wasn't happy with August Underground's Mortem. Again, because I felt like I kind of abandoned it in the beginning. And it didn't have, you know, and maybe I was still kind of, I just felt like it wasn't finished to what I wanted, the story that I wanted to tell. And, you know, coming off the Red Sin Tower, you know, I mean, it played the Fantasia Film Festival and it was big for us and it did all this great stuff. But, you know, going back to making another August Underground movie, taking all the experiences that we just learned on the Red Sin Tower, I knew that this was going to be like the best August Underground movie. And it really was like, you know, you know, Christy and I were super happy at the time. Like, life was good. There was no, it wasn't like how life was when we were making August Underground's Mortem. And Jeremy was, you know, that he did murder set pieces in the Red Sin Tower. His effects were just fucking top notch. It was just, it was the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do and to claim, close the chapter of these August Underground films, like right now. And, you know, to this day, I still think, you know, August Underground's Penance is the best of the three. Each movie stands alone as a, you know, a monster of an underground film. But I just think to performances, the special effects, the, you know, the different vignettes and the scenarios that happen in that film are just better than anything else. Yeah, I mean, the Christmas home invasion scene to me is like the scariest, most insane home invasion scene I've ever seen in any movie. Like I was blown away when I was watching that. And I had already seen the other two August Underground films and I was like, how are they pulling this off right now? So it's crazy because like, you know, when I wrote that down on paper, it can come off as stupid, you know, it's like, oh, the killers come to the house, they break in, they rape the mom, the little girl comes out of the stairs and they make her watch and it's like, well, this is either gonna make people fucking laugh as out, you know, out of the room or we're gonna make something that's super, super powerful. And again, I think it really just comes into the acting, you know? Like the performances from Christie and the performances from myself and the other actors in that scene, you know, that scene is a very, very powerful home invasion scene. I wanted to like, take the scene from Henry and like multiply that by like five, you know? (laughs) - I think you did. I mean, that there's nothing, there's nothing like it, honestly. Well, in April of 2009, TOTAG would release kind of like a Mando style anthology film called Murder Collection Volume One, which is like kind of like a mock version of like the real Gore mix tapes that are often traded and bootlegged within the underground. And I was wondering like, what inspired you guys to make that project? And why did you guys decide to do like a surprise release of the film rather than like a typical marketing campaign? - So at that time, there was a video going around, I think it was called Two Guys in a Hammer. And it really was, it was from like these guys in the Ukraine killing some homeless person in the woods. And it really reminded me of August underground. And I remember showing that video to Jeremy. And I'm like, dude, like look at, oh, so he sent it to me and I'm like, Fred is this real and I watched it and then I made Jeremy watch it. And, you know, we both kind of looked at each other and we like, you know, we could totally recreate this. And that's kind of how it was born. It was like, what if we made something that looks like people are really being fucking killed, but doesn't leave that, you know, that pit in your stomach knowing that somebody's actually being hurt. And that was pretty much the basis of murder collection. And pretty much what we did is we would shoot a scene a day. You know, we would come up with an idea, we would get the effect ready, we would, you know, make it all happen. And then just that whole day was literally for that scene that we were doing. And, you know, we had a big casting call for it. And, you know, there's like the Japanese autopsy scene, which, you know, Jeremy did, which is fucking amazing. But, you know, like that guy on his resume spoke Japanese. So we're like, perfect. Let's put that in the movie. Same thing with the, you know, the opening scene with the Russian, the father kills the son in the room. You know, the, the actor knew a little bit of Russian. So we wanted to start the movie off with a different language. So you didn't know what you're watching, you know, and I mean, I was really important for me because I wanted it to feel like the internet. When you're watching the internet, you're watching different all kinds of shit. And still, in 2009, the internet was still kind of newish, you know. At least, you know, stuff that was, that I was able to find, you know, like rotten.com and whatever. And so, you know, these kind of videos. We took from that and made our own and we try to put a little bit of morality behind it. You know, the bullied scene where groomer gets stabbed by those punks in the woods. You know, like that's a really powerful scene and you literally watch like these bullies take over and as soon as they fuck up, you watch them turn on each other and like that's what would really happen. You know, like and that's really where the scene starts where he gets stabbed to me. You know, and it's watching these these big, jock guys just unravel. And it was important to put that kind of stuff in like same thing with the Broadway Rob pedophile scene where the guy has the kids and he's dancing with the kids and you know, I wanted it to get stabbed like 17 times. I wanted to I wanted that to be brutal and violent. You know, the whole the there's a really good the scene the scene she'll be did with the the store being robbed all shot on the security cameras was really cool. You know, all those were the real cameras from the from the circuit from that restaurant that we shot in. Yeah, that was all legit just like that. That's cool. I mean, honestly, I think I think it was really powerful of like a good call to start the film out with the whole father beating the son in Russian. Like it just gave it an element of realism like right off the right out the gate. And the say my favorite segment was bullied because I because like right like very early on I could tell that these people had kind of like malicious intentions and it just I had like a visual reaction the whole time like they're gonna they're gonna do something to this guy. And it did it did kind of give me that vibe of the three guys one hammer video for sure. Yeah, so. Yeah, there's you know, the ransom one is really cool. I think all this you know, there's a there's a lot of cool stuff in there like with the the cheating guy with the you know, that kills his wife with the axe. You know, like it was really important for those scenes to be long and dragged out and kind of just you know, make you forget that you're watching a movie you're watching something real, you know, that was always the I was that's the key ingredient is sometimes got to linger a little longer so it feels real and it's not just edited, you know, yeah, I definitely it definitely had that effects like it felt like it was just like a compilation of internet and internet clips that were downloaded or something. Yeah, if I can if I can go back in time though, I would definitely change the marketing of that movie, you know, we was a surprise. We wanted to surprise everybody like hey, toe, thanks for having a brand new movie. Even like the the cover I wanted it to look like an encyclopedia, but like we put it out there, you know, the original cover just has like the little M the murder collection logo on it, nothing on the back, nothing. And I remember people would like go to buy it for a month and be like, what is this? And it's just like it's murder collection. Like I don't want this, you know, and it really showed me how like, you know, artwork is important. So you ended up change the cover a little later down the line, but you know, maybe it would have been more the wiser choice would be to like, you know, do the traditional press release again to get people hyped up about it, but we just want to surprise everybody because our fans were the fucking best. And you know, it was really a gift for them. Yeah, when it came out, I thought like maybe it was like an older release that I had never heard of or something because I was like, I couldn't find any information about it. And I was like, what is this? But I had it was pretty cool. Like just sit down and watch it and I kind of figured out what it was. But I got the release with the original that original art. But then I got a second one with the newer art. And I think both of the art looks pretty cool. Yeah. I turned out in October. It's a shame that it gets overlooked a lot that movie. But I think it's really good and still holds up to this day. Yeah. I mean, I think I think it's kind of like a hidden gem within your within your catalog because I think I think maybe because of that marketing aspect, some people don't know about it. But I think that people who are interested in your catalog when they find her like, oh, this is pretty cool. Is there any plan for you guys to release a second volume of that? Or is it probably just going to stick with just one volume? We're not sure. You know, it was designed for us to make more. But, you know, Tote G is always, when we want to make something, it's what we make at the time. We're not just going to make something to make something. Yeah. It was important for us to make that movie at that moment in time because that real shit that was coming on the internet. And you know, that's what we wanted to talk about. You know, and maybe when we get influenced by that kind of stuff again, you know, maybe, you know, I mean, like right now the world's all fucked up. There's so many videos of police brutality and, you know, all kinds of shit I'll call on tape now. Like it's, you just watch the news, be disturbed by it, you know? Yeah. That same year you guys would release another film called Masked. And I was wondering what you could tell us about that film and kind of the process of developing it. So Masked came about by me getting an email from Scott Swan, who is now Rebecca Swan, but Scott Swan wrote John Carpenter's cigarette burns for the Masters of Horror. And I remember seeing that being like, oh, this is like one of the better ones of these. And Scott was like, hey, I'm Scott, you know, I love your movies, I want to work with you. And that was like holy shit, like this is Hollywood calling, you know, they, you know, they, we've heard rumblings that they've, you know, they've seen our movies, you know, I've heard rumblings that Eli Roth had parties in which show August Underground and, you know, all kinds of shit like that. But this was actually Hollywood calling, saying, hey, like Fred, I'm going to work with you. So we kind of know, we worked on a few ideas. We, uh, Scott came up with this one project that we really wanted to do called Lee Harvey about Lee Harvey Oswald, Kennedy assassination. But it was just way too big, you know, there's no way that, you know, we could fucking finance this thing, you know. So we're like, well, let's come up with something, come up with something else. And then Scott came and I remember the day he pitched it to me, he's just like, I got this idea for this guy called mask head. And as soon as I heard the name, and he's like, I'm like, mask head, I'm like, that is the lamest title that we're fucking heard. You know, I'm the guy that makes titles that people don't even know what he's talking about, you know, what the fuck is a Red Sin Tower? What is an August Underground, you know, no one to make a movie called Mask Head. But he laid the groundwork for the story about, you know, Mask Head. And we, we worked together on building like, what mask head would become like, Jeremy was like, oh, we could do, I got this awesome. Let's do this scene where we like, you know, break this guy's arm, it's a compound fracture or, you know, let's take these jumper cables and, you know, we're, so we were coming up with all this kind of cool stuff. And then Jeremy built this mask. And we're like, that's it. So it all kind of, it all started that way. It was just like this kind of organic project that we could do for a very low budget. Swam was going to come into Pittsburgh and see how well, you know, how I made movies. And that's really what it was. And that started our, you know, our friendship. And I'm still working with, you know, we're back into this day, you know, she's, you know, she's like my one of my, you know, favorite persons to, to write with. And, you know, come up with ideas. She gets how my brain works, you know. That's awesome. In October of 2010, uh, totag would release, um, cello, tersica, uh, which stars Camille Keaton for my spit on your grave. And I was wondering, like, what inspired you to come up with that story? And what was it like to work with Keaton on that project? So at that moment in time in 2010, um, we were, we were losing our studio. We, um, we had the 7,000 square foot studio. There's other artists inside this big giant paint factory. I mean, we have, you know, another production company was in there and, um, our accountant was in there and all these amazing other artists were all in there. But we had a shitty ass fucking slept Lord who acquired these, the buildings legally. So the city was kind of coming down on us because this guy didn't have the right permits. So we're like, oh shit, well, let's, we need to get a fucking movie out before we lose this space, you know, and who knows what we're going to do. So, um, the idea was to, is to, you know, come up, I really wanted to try my hands out, like a drama horror film. You know, every movie that I make is me trying to get better and pick different things that I like. And I always thought that horror sticks better to drama. You know, like when you see, like, when you watch Blue Velvet and, uh, you know, that cop is dead in the room, standing there and the fucking, you know, the phone rings and the lamp, he knocks the lamp away, like that shit's fucking haunting and creepy. I love stuff like that. So, um, I'm, my buddy, Don Moore, who was pretty much the main screenwriter for Celotersica, kind of came up with the idea. And, you know, the whole thing too was I got that movie. time in 2010, you know, you watch the news. We were just constantly being lied to on what was going on overseas. And you know, all the soldiers fighting, and it was all bullshit. And Jeremy's cousin was an actual like fucking GI Joe. Like this guy was on his like sixth tour over there. And he would come back and just tell us, you know, all the shit. And we like, man, we have no clue on what's going on. All we see is what's on the news. So like, let's kind of like elaborate on that and make a movie about that, like the not knowing of what's going on and what we're all being lied to. So that's kind of so Trisco was born. And you know, now that I look back at it, you know, these 10 years later, Bob Clark's death dream always pops up when people talk about it. And I guess, you know, now that I look at it, it's like, wow, it really must have been influenced by Bob Clark's death dream because at the time, I don't even remember even, you know, talking about death dream. But it's funny how, you know, subconsciously movies that you love can kind of like inspire you later on, you know. Yeah. But that's for Camille. So, you know, this is going to be two tags first time with, you know, a movie star. Who does TOTA get? You know, they're asking you some street cred to that, right? And Camille Keaton was the ultimate street cred. You know, this is, I spent on your grave is not a mainstream movie. It's one of those movies that's still to this day is brutal. And, you know, it's made it smart and horror. And it was, it was either going to be a father or a mother. So it was like, all right, if we got a guy who's going to be the guy is going to be David, do we get David S? You know, but let's make it about the mom. So once we made it about the mom, Camille Keaton was the, you know, the right person to get. And man was that the right choice. She was so wonderful and she had such a great time. She's still somebody that I speak to regularly. I couldn't be happier to have her in my movie. Like, you know, I always, she was, you know, I spent on your grave, man, was fucking sexy shit to me when I was a kid. So, yeah. You know, just just to have her beauty still, you know, at her age and, you know, she was just, she was just loved by everybody and had such a great time on the movie. She did a really good job on that film. I was really impressed with the whole thing. So let's move on to your most recent film. So within the past month and in August, you launched the pre order for the final interview, which isn't a total release. And it's uniquely different from any film that you've done before. And I was wondering what you could tell people about this upcoming release and what they have in store for them. Yes. So the final interview is my new movie. It's not a tow tag movie. And the reason it's not a tow tag movie is because I want to I want to kind of expand, you know, my filmmaking and try different things. You know, tow tag is pure underground heart art. You know, that's how I look at it. I think it's making movies with no money and down in the dirt and just pure rawness where the final interview was very structured. And it was my first sag movie and I moved I had a movie trailer and I had movie stars in it. It was written by Rebecca Swan, Scott Swan. And she took the characters I created from the story. I was actually getting ready to make this project that I've been working on for years now called Pittsburgh Body Removal. And the money fell through on it and I was getting frustrated and it was like, fuck, it's been like six years and I had to be in a movie and you know, I'm one of those people who when they say they're going to make something they make it like I was like I'm making this I'm making this Pittsburgh Body Removal no matter what it takes and I won't make another tow tag movie until I make this movie. And I do that like I didn't care. I was just like I'm so focused on getting it and I got so close to the door. And in typical Hollywood fashion, you know, they slammed into my face and said, hey, you know, you're the guy that cuts off nipples and smears shit in it later. So I was like, okay, well, now I'm just going to show you that I can make anything and I came up with this idea about this interview between a guy on death row and a legendary, you know, news, you know, newsman kind of like a herrada Rivera or Tom Snyder. And that's the movie that I wanted to make. I knew that I could do it for cheap and when Rebecca came back with the script, she added the female director who was played by Diane Franklin, who is one of my favorite actresses from the 80s. And I was like, oh man, now this movie is going to cost me more money because now I need another movie star. And I'm so glad that he did write her in because, you know, I was scared to make and try to raise the money to make a bigger movie because, you know, it's I owe it. And I'm just going to give people money. So, you know, I put everything that I had into it personally and then I'm lucky that I didn't have to get a lot of investors. But, you know, it was, it was just, this is, this is the movie that I needed to make right now. And I'm so proud of this movie. I cannot wait for people to see it and see something new for me because it's been a while now. I'm excited. And you were kind enough to send me a screener of the film. And so I kind of in preparation for this interview, I kind of had myself a Fred Vogel marathon. And I watched your films in chronological order. And it was really awesome seeing your evolution and growth as a filmmaker. And I was just so blown away at the final interview. I mean, it's acting, it's cinematography, it's score. I loved it score are like also top notch. And it just creates like the perfect atmosphere. And, and the set is amazing. You shot in a prison. And I was just wondering what were and it's your first sag film. I mean, I was just wondering what challenges did you face doing something so large and being with, with celebrities and working with so many people? What was the whole process like making it? So with Pittsburgh body removal, I ended up meeting my producer Ross putman Ross produced. You know, a bunch of independent movies that did really well with Sundance. He's a Hollywood guy. He's an agent at Verve. I mean, he's a young Hollywood producer. And he loved Pittsburgh body removal. How I hooked up with him was through a director named Adam Raymeyer, who did the buddy game. And right now has a movie that playing film festivals right now, which is really amazing called dinner in America. But so Adam introduced me to Ross, you know, Ross and I hit it off. He wanted to make something with me. Pittsburgh body removal didn't work out. What was the next thing? I had it. And he's like, well, he's like, I'm going to come to Pittsburgh. I'm going to sleep on your couch. We're going to make this movie. So and I was just like, that's what I'm talking about. You know, like, okay, this is now this is the team. Now I got to start putting the team together. And because I knew the script is really great. So getting the script out to, you know, Ross was, you know, super valuable because he would, he was able to talk to the agents and get the script in front of, you know, Granger and Diane and Damien who was who plays the derriest hidden in the serial killer in the movie. You know, he's been with me since murder collection. He's the for in the opening scene of murder collection. He's the the son that gets killed by the dad. He's in mass head. He's the star of Salatarsica is Brad. So I knew that I had him. And I was just trying to, you know, just, I just got a lock down the other stars of the movie. And it was, it was, it was, it was just like making a to tag movie, you know, I mean, 12 people. All, you know, one camera, you know, a cameraman, a camera assistant and a camera B shot it. And then I had a sound guy and one makeup artist, I had a one costumeer, I had a one production designer, I had a script supervisor, you know, I had an editor. And it was just, it was just a, we just a right amount of people to where there's no fat. It's literally just like, okay, we're coming in today. We're making this movie. And we shot the final interview in nine days because we were just so prepared. And the actors were so prepared. Like, that's, you know, when you're dealing with these professional people and you're paying these people. So they better come in, fucking prepared. And, you know, when Granger came in and read with Damien and, you know, those guys the first day, I think they, they, we shot 18 pages of dialogue. Off book. So that means like no script. Those guys just went and knew it. And, you know, that was super impressive. And we were able to get the movie done in nine days, you know. So, again, I'm just super. It was, it was, it wasn't really any, any drama going on at the time. It was just the hottest fucking week in the, you know, in August when we shot it. That's all I remember. Super hot. Well, that's awesome. I'm glad besides the heat. It was a pretty smooth, smooth process. So you're coming out with a three-disc DVD set of the film and I was wondering for those who have pre-ordered what are all the special features or or specs that we can expect on this set that's coming out. Cool. So the pre-order right now, if you pre-order the movie, anybody who pre-orders gets to be put into a drawing to win one of these 200 prizes that I'm giving out. So in these prizes it could be a fabric swatched from like Oliver Eros's costume, original artwork from Paul Nailer, lobby cards, t-shirts, autographs from the stars, all kinds of stuff. But what you will get inside no matter what is you're going to be getting a set of cards, character portraits from Paul Nailer, there's going to be like Oliver Eros's business cards going to be in there, there's going to be a signed photo of myself and Damien Maroussac, there's going to be a cast and crew photo. There's a 45-minute documentary on how we made the movie, there's interview with Paul Joyce who did the music on the movie, there's three different commentary tracks, one with Granger, one with myself and Damien, and then one with Shelby Vogel, my wife, the producer of the movie, and my editor, Jenny Lockhart, myself. There's deleted scenes, there's, you know, there's these really cool little vignettes of like the news reporters talking about Tin Man, there's like a full one in there. So I mean it's loaded up. That's awesome. Excuse me. Sounds like it's going to be pretty bitching. For those who are listening who have not yet pre-ordered, where could they pre-order? They could pre-order the movie at the final interview movie.com, and there's only one thousand nine hundred and eighty three copies. So once they're gone, they're gone, you know, I'm kind of infamous for making small runs of my stuff. You know, like right now everybody's been bugging me, it was August and I put up a few August on a ground blue rays, which have been out of print for like two years now. But I keep like ten of them, twenty of them. Just so in August I can do, I can, you know, sell them nice and cheap for the fans and, you know, sign them and get them out there. Instead of paying $200 on eBay for it. But that's what's going to happen. The final interview is going to come out. If you don't get it for fifty bucks, you're going to be paying $200 for it. So get it now while you can and get the opportunity to, you know, get some of this cool pre-order stuff. And there's going to be a grand prize winner of the pre-orders that gets the screen used Oliver Ross's briefcase from the movie, which will be loaded with all kinds of goodies. Oh, that's awesome. Well, you hear it, everybody. Don't sleep on it because you're going to cry if you don't, if you don't jump on it. So is there anything else that you'd like to discuss before we come to a close? Anything, any final word? No, well, you know, if you're, if you're a filmmaker out there and you're thinking about making movies, you know, my advice is to do it. And, you know, get it done. Work really hard, study your craft. Because the cream rises to the top, you know, so you know, there's a lot of people out there just like you make a movie. And then they make something and it's, you know, you're just wasting time. But if you really put, you know, everything into making something, you will make something that's special and, you know, sometimes you just need a little bit of encouragement to do it. Well, I had a great time talking with you. I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me. So, thanks, man. Have a good one. Thank you for listening to this episode of the uneasy terrain explorers club. If you're interested in checking out my other work, please subscribe to my YouTube channel, Cinema's Underbelly, where I analyze and review obscure, obscene, and controversial cinema, as well as check out my label, "Putered Productions." Until next time, this is the uneasy terrain explorers club. [Music]