Ep.361: The GAA Catfish Pt.3

0:00 Intro Hey, we're the two Johnnies. 0:01 Speaker 2 Reminding you, this podcast is intended for an over eighteens audience and you'll be fascinated with the GAA. 0:09 Speaker 3 Catfish. 0:10 Speaker 2 She's the 1st girl that I really messaged since becoming single and I was delighted I got a reply. 0:15 Speaker 4 The GAA Catfish, in which Johnny B shared a story of him being catfished. 0:20 Speaker 2 Nikki says do you want the breakfast? And I said sure, I'd have the breakfast. And after a while I realize I'm sitting at the table for 45 minutes and no sign of Cora. 0:29 Speaker 4 People were tagging me in this thing that this story they were telling called the GAA Catfish. Yeah. So I listened to it anyway. OMG. 0:39 Speaker 2 Why is there a Part 3? Why now? 0:42 Speaker 5 How do you get her to stop? Because someone's going to end up taking their own life. That's just going to happen. 0:46 Speaker 6 I think they don't realize the impact they have. Some of it can be classified as very deviant behaviour and coercive control as well. 0:58 Speaker 2 The GAA catfish. She's back. Hello and welcome to the Two Johnnies podcast. I'm Johnny B. 1:09 Speaker 1 I'm Johnny Smacks. 1:10 Speaker 4 I'm Africa O'Connell. 1:11 Speaker 3 And I'm Neil Leon Turn. 1:13 Speaker 2 This week things are a bit different lads. It's an episode we never thought we'd make. In May 2022, we brought you the story of the GAA Catfish Parts 1 and 2, a podcast story that caused the national sensation. WhatsApp groups blew up, our DMS went on fire, and our minds were blown. 1:31 Now, 2 1/2 years later, this is the story of the GAA Catfish Part 3. 1:41 Speaker 1 Before we go any further, we want to stand now that this episode gets a little darker than the previous editions. It features some heavy stuff that we'll give a trigger warning for beforehand. We never wanted to make this episode but felt we had to, and we hope this isn't dragging up ball wounds for some people. But this story has to be told. 1:57 Usually the Two Johnnies podcast is in full video, but for the purpose of the story and keep certain identities anonymous, this episode is audio only. That and we can't. Have you been distracted by all of our beautiful faces while we tell you the story? 2:09 Speaker 2 I'd say it'd be all right, lad. 2:11 Speaker 1 And if you want to listen to the GA Catfish parts one and two in full, now you can. They'll appear on the podcast feed just before this podcast as a specially edited upload. 2:20 Speaker 2 If you haven't listened to Part 1 and two, we recommend you stop now and listen to them. 2:24 Speaker 1 OK, let's recap and get you up to speed. 2:30 Speaker 2 The GA Catfish Part 1 Recap In January 2022, I began chatting with a girl on Instagram named Cora O'donovan. 2:41 GA Catfish Part 1 Recap She was from Limerick and had 15,000 followers on Insta. Cora seemed too good to be true. She was stylish, talented and gorgeous. But she followed a lot of people I knew and many of them followed her back, so that relaxed my concerns. 2:57 She also said her housemate Nikki was going out with a county footballer not far from me. Sounds great. Despite arranging multiple dates, Cora kept cancelling last minute due to personal crises, family funerals or COVID isolation, raising my suspicions. 3:14 When we finally arranged to meet, she sent me to Ryan's Bar in Dublin, but she never showed apologizing. The next morning, she invited me to her house for breakfast. There, her housemate Nikki welcomed me, but Cora never appeared, and Nikki eventually drove me home. 3:32 Later that day, digging deeper, I realized the Cora O'donovan account was fake, ran by Nikki herself, who had been using photos, videos, and stories from the Internet to create an elaborate catfishing scheme. 3:47 My mind was blown. Cora didn't exist at all and Nikki had been behind the whole lot. Now Nikki is not her real name, it's how we refer to her to try and keep her identity private. 4:01 Speaker 1 Catfish Part 2 recap. 4:05 Catfish Part 2 recap After sharing my catfishing story at our Tree Arena show in April of 2022, a flood of revelations emerged. A woman named Wayne claimed the photos of Cora shown on stage that night were actually photos of her, but it turned out she was fake too. 4:24 More digging revealed multiple fake accounts. There was Cora O'donovan, Emma McCarron, Hannah Ferguson and Manny Moore all connected to Nikki, who had created a web of fake profiles that interacted with each other to appear real. 4:39 These accounts catfish not only young men in sports and entertainment but also some well known figures. For years. The scale of Nikki's deception was staggering with fake accounts portraying siblings, Co workers and friends all to enhance authenticity. 4:57 If you need a full refresher, episode 1 and two of the GAA catfish are now in your feed. 5:07 Speaker 1 The aftermath of parts 1 and 2 After the publishing of the GA Catfish parts 1 and 2, the story had the country gripped. 5:15 The aftermath of Part 1 and 2 It was everywhere. Headlines, memes, WhatsApp groups, online forums were all captivated by the story of the GA Catfish the podcast was charting in countries we've never even heard of. We continue to get more and more messages from people claiming they've been catfished by one of the fake accounts or that someone they knew had been caught. 5:33 We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of messages. 5:36 Speaker 2 Now at the time we had considered doing a Part 3, but the story got so big and Ireland is such a small country that the anonymity of people involved was starting to get lost and it was never our intention to turn this into a witch hunt. We decided against Part 3. We had told the story, we'd raised awareness of what was happening, and that was enough. 5:55 Speaker 1 After the air in a Part 2, we also received emails from people claiming to be friends and family of Nikki. Some also appeared to be from complete strangers. All of these emails had the same message take down the two GA Catfish episodes. As was the case with some of the Instagram accounts, it was difficult to verify how many of these emails were actually from real people. 6:15 After consulting with experts, we'd reason to believe that many of the emails were fake and came directly from Nikki herself. 6:22 Speaker 2 One person who stood out amongst these emails was a woman who claimed to be Nikki's mother. In fact, we received several emails from different e-mail addresses, both claiming to be Nikki's mother. Again, it was difficult to know whether both or any of these were in fact her mother or wasn't Nikki. 6:39 Once more, the woman expressed deep concern about the negative impact the podcast was having on her daughter's mental health and criticised our suggestion on the podcast at the time that we may do a Part 3. Prior to us receiving these emails, we had asked the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the PSNI, to do a welfare check on Nikki to ensure she was OK. 7:00 After receiving the various emails, we asked the PSNI to do another welfare check. After all, we didn't want anyone involved in this story to come to any harm. Both reports we received back from the PSNI stated they were satisfied with Nicky's well-being. 7:15 We were also led to believe there were two official complaints from Nicky's mother or possibly Nicky herself. Sent to RTE 2 FM where we had just begun our national radio show. Looking for us to be taken off air because of the Catfish Podcast. 7:31 Speaker 1 In addition to all of this, we received a letter from a solicitor based in Dublin who wrote on behalf of Nicky. The solicitor's letter asked us to remove the Catfish episodes from Spotify and never mentioned the story again. The legal letter was not signed by solicitors, which made us suspicious. 7:46 It was only two years later when we started working on the Catfish power tree that we got confirmation that the letter was in fact real. The tread of legal action never amounted to anything. 7:56 Speaker 2 At the same time that all this was going on, we had a producer from Netflix's Tinder Swindler reach out to us. She wanted to chat about the possibility of turning the entire story into a documentary. But she wasn't the only one who reached out. The BBC also reached out for the same reason. 8:11 After some discussions with the two, we agreed to provisionally move forward with the BBC team, but only if Nikki herself could be involved in the show. We wanted to give her the opportunity to tell her side of the story. The TV producers reached out to Nikki asking her to consider the involvement. 8:29 This was met with another legal letter stating she would not be participating in the show and asked that it not go ahead without the participation of Nikki. We thought it wasn't right to make the show and production stopped there. 8:42 Speaker 1 Now it's important to mention at the time there were a lot of theories, screenshots and even a spider chart explaining who the real people were behind the cover. Names we gave them all been sent around in WhatsApp groups and online forums and we'd like to state again, a lot of what was sent to us, what was written about the story and the people involved was complete and utter nonsense. 9:00 Some posts written online were so sure of the hidden details, but we can tell you lots of what we read online was way off the truth. 9:07 Speaker 2 Remember lads, don't believe everything you read. We actually have every reason to believe. Nikki herself was active in some of these forums, operating multiple accounts, replying to each other at various times, trying to sway arguments and saying some things about the two Johnnies that were, well, not nice. 9:25 So after all that, why is there a Part 3? 9:28 Why is there a Part 3? Why now? Well, let's get into it before we get into it. Africa O'Connell, you had just started working on the radio with us at the time. 9:38 Speaker 4 We'd literally only been together a couple of weeks because there was the small break. Almost instantly we. 9:46 Speaker 2 Didn't get taken off air for other reasons. 9:48 Speaker 4 Yes, but I remember so I didn't know you that well. Then we're kind of only working together and you're only kind of up once a week. But they the thing that I couldn't get over was how this thing breached containment because I realized that it was so huge or how huge it was when my friends who wouldn't fair to say, be regular listeners of Johnny's podcast, they started texting me and going, what's the fucking story with this year half thing? 10:22 And I was obviously I was talking to you a little bit about about it and stuff. And I had been at the Three Arena in April when you mentioned it first, but like, nobody could have kind of foreseen how big it was going to get, I think. 10:34 Speaker 2 What was written online amazed me. People were so sure. 10:37 Speaker 4 Oh yeah. 10:37 Speaker 2 This is what actually happened and we were reading it going no. 10:40 Speaker 4 People were sending me screenshots of like forums and all that kind of stuff and you know, Twitter threads and all this. And because this true, is this like, you know, whatever it was like I don't know, no use. 10:56 Speaker 1 Don't believe everything you read lads. Now solid advice. No, we crack on. Here we go, Chapter 1. 11:05 Chapter 1 A rainy night in Dublin. 11:10 Speaker 2 Our story begins in 2024 in a quite suburban pub in Dublin. Late 1 evening. There's only a handful of people in tonight. One of them is a young woman. She goes to the bar and orders a drink. She gets chatting to the barman and tells him she's going out with a footballer from a small village in the north of Ireland. 11:29 Sitting at the bar that night is a man who's down in Dublin for work and his chance would have it. He is from the exact same small village up the north and is a clubmate of the footballer. She claimed to be her new boyfriend. He didn't know his teammate had a new missus. 11:46 So when he's outside he phones his mate back home saying just met a girl in the pub in Dublin here she says she's gone out with you. The footballer replies he doesn't have a girlfriend but he is chatting to a woman on Instagram. What does the girl in the bar look like? He says the friend describes her to him, but the footballer says she doesn't sound like the blonde woman. 12:06 I've been messaging on Instagram. But he had been having his doubts about her profile. His friends had expressed concern when he showed them her profile. No tagged photos or comments. Red flags. They said. He suggested the friend in Dublin. Go back into the bar, say nothing but keep an eye on the girl's phone. 12:24 He's going to send a message to the beautiful blonde girl on Instagram and see if it comes up on the woman's phone in the pub. The friend returns to a seat, enjoys his pint and weights. Moments later the girls screen lights up the table. 12:39 The Instagram notification displays a message from the footballer up north. It's his profile, the message is from him. But who's she? The undercover friend discreetly takes a photo of the girl doing the DM ING. He sends it to the maid up north, who says she looks nothing like the woman he's been chatting to online. 12:58 He doesn't recognize her at all. So we get sent the story, screenshots of the profile he's been messaging and the photo of the girl in the bar. They ask in the message if we know her because they don't know her. But I know her. 13:16 She dropped me home from Dublin all the way to Tipperary 1 hungover Sunday morning back in January 2022. The GAA catfish. She's back. 13:36 Speaker 1 1st, we didn't know what to do. We didn't confirm whether or not we knew her. It was, after all, only a story from Adm on Instagram. Could be a mistake, could be a rumor. Not all the gossipy getting your inbox is true. Lads. It's been 2 1/2 years since the first GA Catfish saga aired. We had heard practically nothing about her since we thought it was all over. 13:54 Later that same week we get another DM, a young man from the north saying he's heard of a lad in the next town getting catfished and it sounds fair, like the lines being used in our catfish podcast. He sent us a screenshot of the profile he heard the lad was chatting to. It was the same beautiful blonde girl we got sent in the previous DM Coincidence maybe. 14:13 Then we get Adm out of blue from a man asking do we know an Instagram profile of a woman by the name of Eva Kennedy? 14:27 Speaker 2 Chapter 2 Who the fuck is Etha Kennedy? 14:32 Chapter 2 Etha Kennedy is the beautiful blonde girl whose Instagram profile had been sent to us twice this week. The man who sent us the DM. We'll call him Harry the Hurler because he plays County John County. Harry was the first person to contact us who had personally been talking to Etha Kennedy himself. 14:51 They matched on Hinge, the Dayton app in October 2024. Her profile caught his eye, and why wouldn't it? She's beautiful. Her location on Hinge is in a town near his up the north. Looking for a long term relationship. 15:07 Drinker yes, smoker no. Studied in UL and is now a teacher. Her profile says she likes yellow M&M's. Lovely Harry the hurler moves the chat to Instagram. Her Instagram profile was even better. Her photo suggests IFA enjoys Prosecco, Aperol spritz and on her stories pint bottles of Bulmers. 15:28 Nice. When Harry follows IFA. They had a couple of mutual followers on Instagram. 2 in particular stood out. A well known Gaelic footballer from nearby and an Inter County manager will call manager Mick. Ava said her and manager Mick follow each other 'cause she knew his girlfriend. 15:47 Harry was vaguely familiar with manager Mick, who lived near where Ava was living, so all seemed normal. But more about Mick later. Harry and Ava's chats started innocuously enough. Two single people having the crack. She told Harry she was originally from Tipperary but had moved up north when she had been gone out with her ex, a famous intercounty footballer. 16:11 We'll call County Connor because he plays county, county, County John. 16:17 Speaker 1 County wait. Say that again now. 16:19 Speaker 2 So Eva is chatting to Harry. Harry knows two of the lads. She follows right county Connor, her ex and manager Mick, who's going out with her mate. 16:28 Speaker 1 Gotcha. 16:28 Speaker 2 OK, easy to follow. 16:29 Speaker 1 Yeah, kinda. 16:31 Speaker 2 She told Harry her and County Connor had been in a relationship for three years and they bought a house together, the house where she now lives without him. Harry the hurler had a good look at her Instagram, as you do when you match with someone on a date nap, apparently. 16:47 I wouldn't know. 16:48 Speaker 1 Me neither, Jean, Me neither. 16:50 Speaker 2 On Eva's profile were several posts dedicated to her ex county Connor posts and videos she took while in the crowd at his games club and county. Photos of him lifting a trophy in the Hogan stand of Crock Park, gushing posts as well as cosy moments. 17:06 Photos taken at home, on trips away and asleep in their bed. We say they're bad. But Harry the hurler noticed one thing he found strange. There was no photo of the two of them together. He supposed seen as they'd broken up. People often delete photos of them and their ex after a breakup. 17:24 Not a red flag, but bit unusual. Eva tells Harry that their breakup had gotten messy. She stayed in the house they bought but felt she couldn't even show her face around the village after her split from the well known and well liked local county footballer. 17:41 She said he turned out to be a lunatic and that she was half afraid he'd show up some night and smash in the windows like he did once in the past. Harry felt the story a little strange, but not impossible. He didn't know County Connor personally and well it could be true. 17:57 Why would he not believe IFA? She seemed genuinely upset by it all, but still his suspicions began to grow. Later that week he heard from a friend that the beautiful IFA Kennedy had been messaging some other lads and was due to attend a wedding in the next parish as the guest of a fella he half knew. 18:18 You guessed it, another GAA player. Now Harry the hurler, wasn't going out with IFA, so he said she's entitled to chat to anyone she likes. He did however inquire as to how well this GA player knew IFA. Maybe they were already dead and he should step aside. 18:35 It turns out this GA player and Etha Kennedy had never actually met. Red flag quite possibly. Turns out Etha Kennedy had been chatting to that lad for months, promising to go to the wedding. So he asked the bride and groom for a + 1. 18:51 Etha went quiet a few days out from the ceremony, so he cancelled and they never did get to meet. 18:57 Speaker 1 As a man who's got married, lads, that's £100 dinner gone to waste straight away. 19:02 Speaker 2 Harry and Etha's DMS had been a bit sporadic. She told Harry the local girls in her new village were spreading shit about her and she'd been miserable, so she came off Instagram for a few days. She said they were all nosy bastards and sometimes it's like they're all out together. 19:17 Because of her breakup with County Connor, Harry the hurler started to suspect there was something off for Aoife and her profile. But he said he'd find out. So after some on and off chats, they decided to meet for a drink one night. Unfortunately, IFA had to cancel. 19:34 Her best friend from down home in Tipperary was up for the night visiting her boyfriend who lived in the nearby town. And IFA really needed to see her. Who's the boyfriend? Asked Harry. I might know him. The boyfriend is manager Mick, who Harry knew of but wouldn't know him well personally. 19:53 And who's the friend from Tipperary? Imar Mar loads about her later. But for now, Harry and IFA rescheduled for Saturday night party time. But Saturday afternoon IFA messages. 20:09 Speaker 4 Harry, I'm going to have to cancel today. My brother has a spare ticket to see the script in Dublin and I'm going to go with them. 20:23 Speaker 2 Descriptive class to be fair. 20:24 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. 20:25 Speaker 4 My head's wrecked and I just need to get out of this county even if it's only for a day. I do want to see you but my head is fucked at the minute. Like I'm literally so scared and anxious. I'm honestly afraid of my own shadow. I'm afraid to leave the house. I drive to the next town to walk the dog because I'm afraid to walk around here. 20:42 There's people making fake accounts on Instagram and call me a cunt all day. I don't feel safe in my own home and I've had to put up cameras because I'm not scared. 20:51 Speaker 2 Harry the hurdler was supportive and told her of course go and join the concert, they could reschedule. This stuff with her ex seemed fairly dramatic. Harry had been having major doubts about this girl. If she had so many bad things to say about her ex, why was her Instagram profile still practically a shrine to him and his footballing career? 21:12 She had plenty of real followers from her own but he hadn't met anyone who had actually met her. His inquiries paid dividend when he started being sent screenshots of her Instagram profile and lads from the surrounding villages suggesting she was a fake account and not to be trusted. 21:31 Remember the story from the start, the girl in the pub on her phone and the friend back up the north realising he's been talking to a fake account? Well, the news was going around the town after IFA sent him some more intense stories about her ex-boyfriend and cancelled 1/3 date. 21:48 Harry. Cut ties lads. If you're not confused, you're not paying attention. 21:54 Speaker 1 Let's explain Eva Kennedy a little better. So Eva Kennedy's Instagram profile reads Derry slash Tipperary PE teacher Quail Gore with a Shamrock emoji. She's 27 and was born and reared in the small town of Borisley in north County Tipperary, our home county. 22:10 Uptip kinda. She loves to travel. She has photos of her in front of the Eiffel Tower enjoying the sun of pool parties and plenty photos of her in bikinis looking well now. I'm a married man, John. I'm not saying anything. 22:23 Speaker 2 I would think we can all agree she looks great, Neil, She looks. 22:26 Speaker 3 Great in all her photos. 22:28 Speaker 2 Agreed, she looks fantastic lads. That's half the reason all these lads follow her. She follows pages back from her hometown Borisoli FC, the local hairdressers, the gym in Templemore, a few county players from nearby clubs and lots of these people follow Eva Kennedy too. 22:46 Her profile has around 400 followers and most of them to us look like real people. IFA is followed by dozens of GA lads from her own N Tip intercounty hurdlers and footballers, intercounty Kamogi and ladies football players and by lots of women, real women from Tip they follow IFA Kennedy. 23:09 On IFA's profile are some sombre tributes to her father who passed away in the recent past. She posts photos of her and her dad with loving captions, seeing how she misses him every day. EFA is also followed by her mother Deirdre Kennedy, her brothers Mikey, Paddy and Vinton Kennedy, with his wife and two children rounding out the family tree. 23:33 The most striking thing about EFA Kennedy's profile, apart from how much time she spends sunbathing for a woman who lives in the north of Ireland, is the many tributes to her ex-boyfriend, County Connor. Right last. Can we take a minute? Yeah. 23:47 Speaker 1 She's. 23:48 Speaker 2 It's a lot to digest. It's like Christmas dinner. 23:50 Speaker 1 It is it is, but the one thing from Eva Kennedy's profile is that like following the likes of like Bursley soccer club and stuff like that. That would that would disarm me to be like oh, but she must be birthday. She like nobody just randomly follow a soccer club or a gym have more and then if it was a load of lads like following you probably like hmm that's red flag. 24:09 But the fact she follows local women as well. 24:11 Speaker 2 And they follow her back. 24:12 Speaker 1 And they. Yeah. And what? That's the thing. People are nosy. If someone follows you on private on Instagram, you'd be like, who's that? Now? I'll follow him back now. Have a look. Yeah. Yeah. That legitimizes all this. That's how people are falling for this. Yeah. It seems so real. If you went through her followers, you'd be like, oh, that must be her brother, her cousin, her sister, her mother. 24:28 Speaker 2 And a half know them and I kind of half I recognize that fellas name and. 24:32 Speaker 1 Yeah, all of this disarms, yeah. 24:34 Speaker 4 Yeah, all completely. 24:35 Speaker 1 So I guess that's how they fall for. 24:36 Speaker 2 Yeah, she has a lot of photos of her ex up. 24:39 Speaker 4 I think that must be a disarming thing as well, because if you see like whether or not you think it's your fella, yeah or her ex, if it's a well known golf player, you're. 24:49 Speaker 2 Like, Oh yeah, that must be. 24:50 Speaker 4 That must, that must be legit like. 24:52 Speaker 2 But I wouldn't message a girl if I was single. Like if she has 10 photos up of a lad I'd be assuming that must be her fella. 24:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, but John, some lads. 25:00 Speaker 4 Yeah, I know. 25:01 Speaker 2 Some lads shoot. 25:01 Speaker 4 Your shots shoot your shots. 25:03 Speaker 1 You know what I mean? You know, right, Let's kick on Chapter 3 County Connor. 25:12 Chapter 3 This man loves his club. A stalwart. He's been playing for his county for years. To county, county. When we called him, he said I was just about to contact you. We're here to tell his story. 25:27 It has to be told. 25:29 Speaker 2 With so many of his photos being used on the fake Ethan Kennedy profile, we felt we had to contact him. 25:34 Speaker 1 Just a warning, this chapter contains descriptions of domestic abuse, gender based violence, rape, and pregnancy loss. Please proceed with caution. We'll provide details for services available at the end. And to keep County Connor anonymous, we've used the voice actor for this podcast. 25:50 But this story is very much true. 25:53 Speaker 2 We began by asking him if he knew Eva Kennedy. 25:56 Speaker 5 I, Eva Kennedy, we met on Tinder, got chatting, said no Snapchat. So after a while I asked for a photo, kind of called her right on it. Then she went missing. Some relative died. I offered to go to the funeral but the chatting, you know, it'd be 30 on and off for a few months. 26:14 Speaker 1 Connor felt there was something off about the beautiful Eva Kennedy. He stopped the messenger. But it's not that easy to just slip away. 26:22 Speaker 5 I she's good at it, you know, she'll come back with all these different people, Patty Kennedy or brother. He messaged me saying I can't believe we're not talking to Arefa because such and such died, you know, and not Amir Maher. She was messaging me flat out. Why aren't you replying to our Eva? 26:38 You know, someone had died. I thought maybe I should message saying sorry to hear you know. 26:43 Speaker 1 So Connor and IFA got back chatting and it went on for a while. At one point, IFA asked him for tickets to his match in Crow Power. 26:50 Speaker 2 At this stage, Connor and IFA had been chatting for months. You can't just go give an anyone them tickets. 26:56 Speaker 1 They were supposed to meet after, but IFA had to cancel. He did leave a ticket out for her for one of his Intercounty Championship games in 2024. The spare ticket was sitting beside Connor's mother and father in the stand. So who turned up to sit in the seat? 27:09 Speaker 5 I don't know what happened, I'll have to take it out for her, but some hard boy turned up and stopped down beside my parents. I don't know who he was. She must have swapped the ticket outside the ground or something. 27:19 Speaker 1 They didn't know about Eva, so they never taught to ask the man sitting beside them. Where did you get the ticket? 27:24 Speaker 2 Because those tickets are fair hard to get like the good seats. 27:27 Speaker 1 They dead right? John by Eva Kennedy told Connor that she was a cousin, a Shamus Kennedy who plays Harden for Tipperary. Not pointing fingers now, but two years ago when Johnny B got catfished, Cora Donovan had mentioned to a few lads she was a first cousin of Dara O'donovan, Limerick midfielder and five time All Ireland winner. 27:45 She's not because Cora O'donovan doesn't exist, remember? 27:48 Speaker 2 Oh, I'm well aware of that now, John. 27:51 Speaker 1 Eva tells Connor her brothers play for Borisoli and they're a big GAF family. She's not bad at the camogie herself. Ethan misses Connor's big club match because her bad luck continues and she's in hospital for a month with a liver transplant. Nasty operation that leaves her in a wheelchair for two weeks. 28:07 But there's photos from that very match on Ethan Kennedy's Instagram story highlights. So was she there? 28:13 Speaker 5 She must be hiding her stories from me or something. She was going from a stories screenshot and then cropping the make it look like I was with her. She tagged me but spelled my name wrong or something so I won't get the tag. One time I did get the tag and I was like what the fuck? 28:27 Speaker 1 So Ethan would tag county Connor on her stories but spell his name slightly wrong or add an extra letter or digits So at a glance it looks like a real tag but he gets no notification. It's also possible to tag someone in the story and just before you upload it you screenshot that story, cancel the upload, then you upload the screenshot so if anyone sees it, it looks like your tag, but the tag can't be clicked on. 28:50 Confused. You should be. So was Connor. So you could type in someone's name, but just at a full stop or something. And the tag's not real, but it looks fairly real. And things only got stranger. Eva was supposed to be the guest to Connor at an awards night. 29:05 Speaker 2 Now, they had been chatting for a long time by this stage, since 2020. 29:09 Speaker 1 Three, her table place was set, her name was on the seating plan, but she never showed another family tragedy, and she couldn't leave the funeral. At this stage, Connor has serious doubts about the entire thing. 29:21 Speaker 5 At one point she asked for my bank details, saying she needed to book a hotel for the two of us. That's when I knew how far she was willing to go. Thankfully I didn't fall for it, but I couldn't help wonder how many others had. When we marched, she was working in some school. 29:36 I can't remember the name of it, and I can't be sure if she actually worked there. One day, out of nowhere, she claimed there had been a GAA player working at the same school and I'd raped her at work. She claimed he grabbed her, turned her against the wall and started beating her. 29:55 She added that he's married. Honestly, I didn't know what to say or even think. The whole thing sounded horrific, but it didn't stop there. She also told me that before we started chatting, she was going out with the GAA player from down the country. 30:11 She told me that I used to physically assault her and that when they were together she got pregnant and this player made her get an abortion. 30:20 Speaker 1 This is an important time to remember these allegations are false. Eva Kennedy is not a real person, her brother Paddy Kennedy is not a real person, her brother Mikey Kennedy is not a real person, her brother Finton Kennedy is not a real person, and her mother Deirdre Kennedy is not a real person. 30:39 Then County Connor gets sent screen recordings of the story she is up about, ones that he's never seen. He calls the whole thing off, blocks Eva Kennedy on Instagram and leaves it there. But that's not the end of it. 30:52 Speaker 5 That boy Patty Kennedy, if his brother, he messages me looking for Ireland tickets for a friend or their uncle who's dying, he's a big arm off on and can't get a ticket now. I couldn't get one because I was bringing my child. But I felt bad, you know, was I after laughing the diamond on, she had all these photos and stories up with me. 31:10 I've never saw on her stories. She was out in the pitch. She probably came right up to me. 31:15 Speaker 1 Connor started getting messages from IFA's friends and family again. He had to block 12 different Instagram accounts, multiple e-mail addresses, and seven different mobile phone numbers. He described it as relentless. He contacted Boris Eli GA Club, who IFA said her brothers played for. 31:32 They never heard of the Kennedy family. Connor confides in a close friend who tells him that story sounds a lot like the one on the Two Johnnies podcast. So Connor listens to the GA catfish and at the end of the episode is a recording of a phone call Johnny B had over 2 1/2 years ago with Cora O'donovan. 31:50 And there is no mistake in the Vice, it's the same. Eva Kennedy is Cora O'donovan and as we know, Cora Donovan is Nikki here. 32:01 Speaker 2 We go again. Eva Kennedy is Cora O'donovan, who is Nikki? 32:06 Speaker 1 Well, Connor goes down an Internet rabbit hole and finds out what he can. The Internet did its thing. Connor sends the real life Nikki a solicitor's letter with no actual address. He emails it, addressing it to Nikki slash Etha Kennedy, asking her to cease all contact. 32:23 Etha Kennedy refuses to accept that she has hassled Connor, made anything up, or ever catfished anyone, but she agrees to stop contacting. 32:31 Speaker 5 I thought the solicitor's ladder would put it to bed. I got sent scream recordings. She was putting up photos of me after a blocked her so I couldn't see for months she was doing it. I heard from six people she was messaging telling them all I was her ex. 32:45 Speaker 2 Connor blocked Etha Kennedy and sent her those solicitors letters in September 2024. A week or two later, Etha Kennedy was on Tinder and Hinge chatting to Harry. 32:55 Speaker 1 What about who Etha Kennedy told Connor was a Rex? The one who made her get an abortion? The one who beat her. 33:02 Speaker 5 I had the message him what she said to me about him. Turns out he'd never even heard of Eva Kennedy. Had no idea what I was on about. God knows what she's saying, the other people. What if she says I raped her on one of those accounts? I just wanted away from it completely. 33:18 But I hear from other boys. She's still using my name now. 33:21 Speaker 1 The Eva Kennedy account has dozens of photos and stories about Connor, most of them posted after he had blocked her. There's also some photos of Connor's young child captions dedicated to Eva's little Angel and how much she loves them. 33:35 Speaker 5 Things asked a little when I found out she was posting pictures of me and my way in on her profiles. These weren't photos ad centre, they were once. She must have taken from my social media. Seeing those photos of my small one online posted by someone I didn't even know. I tell you it shook me. 33:51 I'd block her and everything, but she must have still been keeping tabs on me somehow because she continued posting about me even after I cut her off. 33:59 Speaker 1 If you're wondering if it's illegal to post photos of someone else's child online without their consent, it is. There were also other children appearing in some of the photos. The families are considering legal action. 34:11 Speaker 5 I know she's still out at night. She's followed by so many real people. That's what gets you. I just feel sorry for whoever's next. I've heard stories of people losing their jobs or relationships over how do you get her to stop because someone's going to end up taking their own life. That's what's going to happen. 34:27 Maybe 10 people have messaged me saying she's using my name. I'm worried there's a lot after me. She's just going to keep going. I know of some other boys she's messaging, I might message them. All I'm looking to do is to get her to stop. 34:40 Helpline Before we move on, if you've been impacted by anything you've just heard, there is help out there. You can contact the Dublin Rape Crisis Center for support related to rape and sexual violence on their national 24 hour helpline 18170 seven 8888. If you've been a victim of domestic violence, you can contact the Garrett a confidential helpline on 18166 6111. 35:03 This information will also be in the podcast description. Just a reminder, Eva Kennedy is not a real person. These allegations are false and all the individuals have never met this person or anyone connected with these accounts. 35:16 Speaker 2 And that's County Connor story that got heavy. 35:20 The Challenges of Telling a Story One of the challenges in telling a story like this is contacting those involved. Sometimes you feel you have to warn people. If you think someone is getting catfished, you feel obliged to say something. But contacting strangers on the Internet, or even via a friend? It's not easy. 35:36 I know I felt they'd be made a fool of, embarrassed, stupid by not telling others, though. That's what allows it to continue. The way Eva Kennedy kept posting pictures of County Connor after he blocked her, Not unlike how Cora O'donovan kept posting photos of me after I blocked her, including that mad photoshopped picture of us up the mountain that she posted on Valentine's Day that had my dog in a man too far. 36:01 Let's take a break. 36:09 Speaker 1 Got me jacket. 36:11 Speaker 2 Take off your jacket. 36:13 Speaker 3 So I'll take a deep breath. 36:14 Speaker 2 One thing I think a fake profile that's followed by so many real people, yeah, I would say to people don't follow somebody if you don't know them. A lot of the lads we reached out to say to us she was a good looking woman. 36:29 She seemed to be from her own. The next town I didn't know or she's followed by a couple of mutual. I thought she'd follow her kind of frontal nose. 36:37 Speaker 4 It's the mutual's is where that's what gets you, is where power is really, yeah, because that's where you that that's where you kind of your guard comes down a little. 36:45 Speaker 2 Especially if she's followed by a lot of women from the next town. You think she must be one of the girls up there That's. 36:49 Speaker 3 The bit that kind of got me as well, when we were looking through some of the followers, I was able to see, oh, I know that person. I know that girl and it would definitely disarm you. 36:57 Speaker 1 Yeah, the one thing I'm thinking from this is if I ever have kids that only got be posting them online. 37:02 Speaker 4 No, I know. 37:02 Speaker 1 You know, it's, it's just, yeah, you don't know what you're posting online. You don't know who's screen grabbing, you don't know where it's going. It's it's all, it's all wildly dangerous. 37:10 Speaker 4 The the allegations that she's making against, you know, various different people, The only thing that I can think of is this absolutely nobody that that doesn't hurt. Yeah. Because the allegations are are false. 37:27 Yeah. Also it undermines any allegations that are real. Yes. And so it hurts the people who are being accused. It hurts people in the future who might have legitimate reason to do, you know, accusing of of whoever. 37:46 It's fucking grim. Like it is. That's grim. 37:49 Speaker 2 And any fellow, I'll tell you it's probably the worst thing you could ever have. 37:52 Speaker 4 Said about yeah, absolutely. Jesus. 37:54 Speaker 1 Yeah, Jesus. Yeah. So we troop on. 37:59 Speaker 2 Just like the catfish profile that I was caught by, Ava Kennedy had quite the support network. 38:04 The Support Network Apart from her previous mentioned family, she had a tight knit group of friends including IMA Mar, Aaron Flaherty, Shannon O'Connor, Amy Louise Ryan, Sybil NI Mahuna and AV McMahon who would often comment on each other's photos, appear in each other's stories, tag each other, all saying how well the other person looked. 38:25 Good friends how? 38:26 Speaker 1 How come you never tell me how well I look? 38:28 Speaker 2 I you look fabulous in fairness to that, OK. 38:31 Speaker 1 You don't sound like you mean it. 38:32 Speaker 2 I do. You're Tom Hardy, left. 38:34 Speaker 1 In legend, he's very good in that. 38:35 Speaker 2 Yeah, you're, you're Tom Hardy in legend, John. OK, thank you. Right, OK, look the point. 38:39 Speaker 1 Being mom, will you move on? 38:40 Speaker 2 The point being, all those profiles are fake. If you're listening to this now and are currently messaging one of these women, you should stop. One of the reasons Harry the hurler and County Connor took Eva Kennedy at face value is because she said her friend was going out with a well known GA coach, Manager Mick. 38:59 The friend was Emer Mar Emer was tagged in some Eva Kennedy's posts and stories. Manager Mick followed Emer, he followed Eva Kennedy too, so it seemed reasonable he could be her boyfriend. When I first started messaging the fake Coral O'donovan account, one of the first things Cora told me was her housemate Nikki was going out with a county player not too far away from me. 39:20 And I'd say that definitely got my guard down. In Ireland we like to have people. When you meet someone new, you both ask each other a lot of questions. Do you know such and such? No, such and such. And you stay gone until you find a person in common. And then you can say, oh, you're a so and so's cousin from the country. 39:38 And we say, I have, you know, and the conversation can continue. Well, let's see if we have Emer Maer. 39:49 Speaker 1 Chapter 4 Emer Maer and manager Mick, the Instagram profile reads Emer Maer, 29 Marin Cree Adram afad, which is Irish for a light heart, lasts a long time Dog Mammy and she's from Tiborary. 40:05 Chapter 4 Up tip kinda again, yeah. She has around 350 followers and she follows around 450 people. Emer likes to travel. Her profile has story highlights from Paris, Marbella and Italy. She's a fan of Prosecco, Aperol, spritz and on her story large bottles of Bulmers, the cider made here in Tipperary. 40:26 Eva Kennedy had been telling all the lads she was messaging that her friend Emer was going out with manager Mick. So time to ring Mick. How do we get in touch with Mick? Ireland's a small country. We knew someone who knew someone and it didn't take long before we were having the awkward phone call. 40:47 Emer and Mick had met on Tinder. They moved the chats to Instagram. The chats have been on and off over the summer. 40:53 Speaker 2 The summer of 24, the same time she's talking to County Connor. 40:58 Speaker 1 They'd talk, then she'd disappear and reappear with no reason. 41:01 Speaker 2 Emer tells Mick all about her best friend Eva and Connor's romance The Perfect Couple. 41:13 Speaker 1 Emer told Mick she was from Tipperary but working as a teacher in Dublin. Her friend Eva Kennedy was going out with the well known county Connor, who Mick knew of being from Tipperary. Mick asked Emer if she knew the two johnnies. Emer said she did, but that no one in tip like the two Johnnies. 41:31 She said Johnny Smacks was all right, but that Johnny B was a stuck up prick. 41:35 Speaker 4 Agreed. 41:37 Speaker 1 Full of themselves, she said. I wonder why the person behind these accounts wouldn't have any reason to dislike you, John, Would they? 41:44 Speaker 2 I don't, I don't know. I'm not saying, I'm just saying like just because. 41:47 Speaker 1 First time this catfish made sense. 41:48 Speaker 2 Well, look as apart from that Emer and Manager make We're supposed to meet for a date a few times, but each time life would get in the way. Sometimes debt would get in the way too. RIP to Emer Maher's uncle and all her other various relatives who passed away suddenly over the summer. 42:09 Speaker 1 Bad summer. 42:10 Speaker 2 Mick thought there was something very off about this girl and he kind of wasn't too bothered if the date ever happened. Although we should mention Emer Maher is absolutely beautiful. Manager Mick did say to us he was wondering why he was a woman like Emer messaging me. 42:26 Point being, she's very. 42:28 Speaker 1 Attractive school breeding and Bursley. 42:29 Speaker 2 There must be John. But a dark twist came the day before we spoke to manager Mick. Emer had contacted him saying her best friend Eva Kennedy had tragically died. The stress of the messy breakup with County Connor, the bitching from all the girls in his club. 42:48 It had taken its toll on Eva's health. Rest in peace, Eva Kennedy, a young woman who died too soon. Luckily for us all, Eva Kennedy is not a real person. 43:03 Speaker 1 Now Neil did search RAP dot IE just in case. No sign of Eva Kennedy dead from Barcelona, lads. 43:09 Speaker 2 Emer had told manager Mick that she had two tickets to see the Ireland rugby team play against Fiji in the autumn 2024 series and would he like to go as her date. Free tickets to international rugby in the Aviva 2. Right, I'll go, he said to her. 43:26 With IFA's untimely death, the funeral been on Friday and the rugby on Saturday, make assumed another date was going to be cancelled until Emer told him. I know I'll bury IFA the day before and we can still go to the game like because that'll be great crack. 43:43 She was busy clearing out IFA Kennedy's house and had found seven love letters. Seven love letters IFA Kennedy wrote to County Connor and never sent. The big decision between the friends and family now was whether or not to show them to Connor. 44:02 If he saw how much IFA loved him, it might break his heart that he ever broke up with her. But Emer was still on for going to the rugby on Saturday. 44:11 Speaker 1 Come on, you boys in green. Good to see you, man. Couple of high nose, man. Yeah, couple high nose, man. 44:16 Speaker 2 Good to see the boys in green in action. Anyway, Manager Mate had his suspicions that Emer wasn't real and this time he cancelled the date. He'd had enough. Remember the lads from the pub at the start? Well those messages warning people of a suspicious account named EFA Kennedy. 44:32 One of those messages crossed manager makes path which is another reason he cancelled on Emir and it's the real reason Eva Kennedy was killed off. The local lads were starting to cop on. There was something off with her profile. Eva Kennedy was running out her Rd. so Nikki killed her off dead. 44:54 Well fake dead. The Eva Kennedy account is now gone. 44:58 Speaker 1 Lads, we're just a quick break there. Yeah, how FIFA wasn't cowled in the bed and they pulled the bed sheets out from underneath her. Get rid. She's dead. Imagine. Can you imagine dying? And your friends turn off that night to be like, right, let's clear out the room. There's the house. There's a couple of Romanians moving in next month. 45:14 Speaker 3 There's money to be made here. 45:15 Speaker 1 There's there's rent that has to be paid. The garage are to be called lads. The garage are to be called A. 45:20 Speaker 2 Couple of lads from the factory going moving into the spare room in the morning. Like how did a house cleared before the funeral? 45:25 Speaker 1 Afrik Touchwood. God forbid if you were to, if you were taken. 45:28 Speaker 4 Oh, God forbid. 45:29 Speaker 1 How quick do you want us to clean out the house? 45:32 Speaker 4 I really appreciate the efficiency there 6. 45:34 Speaker 1 7 minutes. 45:34 Speaker 4 Can be done that afternoon be great. 45:38 Speaker 1 And what about those love letters that you wrote? Secrets She. 45:41 Speaker 2 Probably wasn't even home from the hospital. 45:43 Speaker 4 No, yeah, just get in there. 45:44 Speaker 2 Wrap up the removal. We've got a house soon. Will you come on just? 45:47 Speaker 4 Get in there, get rid of all the secrets that's. 45:49 Speaker 1 Crazy Bury your best friend on the Friday. It's a rugby to be heading a Saturday. That's here we go. We crack on Chapter 5 keeping up with the candies. 46:05 Chapter 5 Around the time of Ava Kennedy's death, her Instagram brother Paddy Kennedy started reaching out to lads asking have you heard from Ava? She's not answering his calls and he's worried about her. A message that's fair hard to ignore no matter how off you think a profile is. 46:21 I know because when I called out Cora O'donovan for being a catfish, she denied it and as soon as I hung up the phone to her, I was bombarded by messages from accounts claiming to be Cora's friends and family. Why aren't you messaging Cora back? She's been in an accident Johnny, you need to message her. 46:39 Cora's in hospital, she needs you. I told her she needs to stop messaging me and drink a bottle of Cop on. So I blocked several accounts and I left it there. 46:49 Speaker 1 At the time we're recording this, Eva Kennedy's very under the radar funeral has taken place and it sounds like there wasn't too many at it. The house has cleared out and the Eva Kennedy Instagram profile is now gone. It's dead. It's not dead. She's which is not real. 47:06 Speaker 2 The fake account having its own support network is part of what makes it look so convincing. Eva Kennedy had her own Marvel Universe of characters that looked so real, but there are patterns. Typically the accounts that Nicky makes have the following girl with normal enough name, late 20s, dual location, which helps to explain why her accent may not line up exactly to where her profile does. 47:33 Sometimes some Irish language, possibly emojis. John's like a teacher where she may be uncontactable for hours of the day. Profile on private. 47:43 Speaker 1 The latest batch of fake profiles have another thing in common. We're blocked. 47:48 Speaker 2 I'm blocked. 47:48 Speaker 3 I'm blocked and I'm blocked. 47:51 Speaker 2 The two Johnny's Instagram account is blocked. Our previous producer Maura is blocked too. So that's everyone who worked on the GAA Catfish podcast. 48:00 Speaker 1 Blocked. Sure is, John. 48:02 Speaker 2 But our new producer, Sean, is not blocked. How are you ads? How are you, Sean? 48:08 Speaker 1 So we were able to search and find the profiles which are all on private. But if you didn't already know this, here's a tip. 48:14 Speaker 2 Lad, listen to this. 48:16 Speaker 1 Search for someone on Instagram when they show up, even on private. In the top right corner are three dots. Click on those dots and a drop down menu appears. One of the options is about this account. If you click that, it gives you a few crucial pieces of information like how many usernames this account has had, IE how many times has this person changed her name on Instagram and something we must admit neither of us knew the date account started. 48:46 Speaker 4 That's my mind is blown by this. I never knew this. It's unreal. We never knew this. 48:50 Speaker 2 No, and this makes a massive difference. Yeah, if you can see that the account is only three weeks old, it's probably something off. You can also see the accounts location. So if you're messaging a woman Navan, and it turns out her account is based in Botswana, there might be some more plots. 49:07 So now we can see Eva Kennedy's Instagram profile started in February 2023, and since then, Eva has changed her username five times. Red flag. 49:20 Speaker 1 Definite red flag, John. 49:22 Speaker 2 Her brother Finton Kennedy started in September 2022 and has had four previous usernames. Eva's brother Paddy Kennedy joined Instagram in February 2022 before the 1st GAA Catfish Podcast ever came out. 49:39 Paddy was on Instagram right through the GAA Catfish saga and he's still going on Instagram right now, although he is on his 7th username. God knows what names he's had in the past and who he's messaged. 49:56 Speaker 1 Emma Marr started her Instagram profile in April 2023. Around that time, Amy Louise Ryan joined Instagram, as did Shannon O'Connor, who's from Awfully as he can't catfish. Lads are pretending to be from Awfully. 50:10 Speaker 2 Well, her location is Jewel. It's like awfully slash Dublin. 50:12 Speaker 1 It's still awfully Erin Flaherty joined, too. 50:16 Speaker 2 One account worth noting is Avene McMahon, who joined Instagram in October 2022, just five months after the GAA Catfish podcast. At the time of recording this, Aveen McMahon is still on Tinder Sybil NI Mahuna, which is Irish for Sybil McMahon. 50:40 She joined Instagram in September 2022. 50:44 Speaker 1 Just to be clear, she's no relation of mine. 50:46 Speaker 2 Because neither of them are real. 50:49 Speaker 1 Oh, yes, yeah. 50:50 Speaker 2 One of the accounts who sent me abusive messages because I wouldn't phone Coral Donovan back was Dara under score Mac 2. He's still there on Instagram. Now he is on his fourth username and he joined social media in 2019. 51:07 IFA and Emer were the most active accounts this time as far as we know. Coral Donovan had 15,000 followers. Now upon closer inspection I'm not saying loads of them were fake, but for a team whistle player from a dare she'd a lot of followers in Pakistan. 51:23 Speaker 1 They're probably fake accounts, John. 51:24 Speaker 2 Quite possibly. John, IFA and Emer, however, were followed by what we can assume were real people in their followers. We recognized dozens of young Gea lads from North Tipperary, dozens of county players too. We haven't been able to contact every single one of them, so we don't know just how many guys were talking to IFA and EMA privately and may only be finding out that they are being catfished by listening to this right now. 51:53 Speaker 1 So we know they're not real, but who are these unreal people in the pictures that the lads think they're talking to? Have you ever tried to reverse image search a photo or Google lens? Well lads I spent ages at and for the most part all I can tell you is every young one in the UK has been to Ocean Beach and Ibiza. 52:11 Also a lot of them kind of look the same. The same lips, the same filler and the same. 52:17 Speaker 2 Other bits done. 52:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, the rest. Also, Molly May has got to be a billionaire because every girl in the UK has that Molly May leather jacket. I'll, I, I never see one again. I'll be happy. 52:26 Speaker 2 How many Instagram profiles do you reckon you saw? 52:28 Speaker 1 I must have gone through 7000 photos to try and find the match and how we eventually found the match was a photo on Ethan Kennedy's profile which was a screenshot from an Instagram reel posted by a woman who's an influencer in the UK. Her name is Leah Brock, she is 100,000 followers and her photos were used for the long distance Eva Kennedy pictures. 52:50 So the photos at Disneyland from behind, sunbathing with a hat over her face, long distance swimming pool shots. Not the close up face photos, but lots of the travel photos were used to make up Eva Kennedy. 53:01 Speaker 2 And would you believe it, in real life Leah Brock is friends with the girl whose photos were being used for the Cora O'donovan profile. The real life Emma McCarron is also her friend and the entire previous Catfish universe. 53:18 Speaker 1 You're telling me that the new profile has photos linking it to the last catfish saga? 53:22 Speaker 2 That's exactly what I'm telling you, John. Nikki didn't go far for new material. Also, we've been sent some of the voice notes Eva Kennedy sent lads and I am in no doubt this is the same voice I heard when I spoke to Cora O'donovan. 53:39 Except now she has kind of an attempt at a Tipperary accent because that's where her new characters are from. But just like I wouldn't be good at doing a dairy or an armor accent Eva Kennedy, I mean Nikki is terrible at doing a N Tipperary accent. 53:56 Speaker 1 It's the worst thing I've ever heard. I don't care how hot this Eva Kennedy is, Anyone who talks like that red flag out the door, I'm gone. 54:10 Speaker 2 Chapter 6. 54:11 Chapter 6 The last chapter, hopefully. 54:14 Speaker 1 So lads, how is she able to set up all these accounts? We reached out to Mehta, the owners of Instagram, who said they do ask users to. 54:22 Speaker 4 Verify their identity in certain situations, such as when a profile is reported for impersonation or if suspicious activity is detected. 54:29 Speaker 1 They also say. 54:31 Speaker 4 If an account is confirmed to be fake or violates impersonation policies, Instagram will deactivate or remove it. 54:37 Speaker 1 So essentially the only way they can take down a fake account is if someone reports. 54:42 Speaker 2 Now the real people portrayed in the Emma McCarron and the Cora O'donovan profiles in episode 1, they had reported the profiles to Instagram long before I ever got catfished and Instagram did nothing. 54:55 Speaker 1 Eva Kennedy and IMA Maher were also on Hinge. We asked Hinge to date an app. How was it so easy for a fake profile to be set up? Hinge replied. 55:03 Speaker 4 We've implemented several rules and safeguards to combat catfishing and enhanced profile authenticity, with the biggest being selfie verification. Hinge offers a voluntary selfie verification process where users upload a video selfie that undergoes a liveness check and 3D facial recognition. 55:21 Speaker 1 Etha Kennedy, Andy Murmar were not verified on Hinge or Tinder. Now we're joined by doctor Mali Kine, who is a clinical psychologist and the author of Love in Love Out. 55:32 Why would someone do something like this? Mali is over 20 years of experience in this field and treated victims of catfishing. She's also worked with the MTV series Catfish. And we started by asking Mali, why would someone do something like this? 55:44 Speaker 6 Most people who engage in it would definitely have kind of issues with their self esteem and loneliness and there can be many different reasons for it. But I think it's kind of like a fear of a healthy relationship. Because I was kind of looking up what are the main things involved in healthy relationships. 56:02 And they would be things like communication, trust, respect, empathy, quality time, conflict resolution, growth, none of which would be involved in a catfishing situation which is just based on complete pretense and really causes such damage to the person who experiences it. 56:23 Speaker 2 Why would somebody be afraid of all those things that sound like good things? 56:27 Speaker 6 When we've had difficulties in our childhood, most of us have an attachment style. So an attachment style is relating to how we how we are with our main caregivers, which are our parents. And a lot of us have secure attachment, which are warm and caring, trusting, forgiving. 56:46 You know a situation where if something happens when you're younger or you go through any difficulties, you come home from school and somebody has been mean to you, you get listened to and your needs are met in a good enough way. But then there's other people out there who really struggle with attachment because of their childhood. 57:04 They might have either had an anxious, an avoidant, or a disorganized type of attachment style growing up, or they've experienced some trauma as they've grown up and that leads them to seek a really unhealthy relationship and not to know what a healthy relationship is. 57:21 Speaker 1 The people doing the catfish in Mali, do they do it for like, you know, to get into a romantic relationship or are they doing it like our vadnais or are they doing it because to get a buzz off it? 57:31 Speaker 6 I think it's all of those, Johnny. Sometimes it can start with boredom and also, I suppose the power that one gets from pretending to be someone else. You know, like if your self esteem isn't great or you don't feel great about yourself, which can result from, you know, these kind of attachment styles when you're younger, then you're going to be more used to like unhealthy type of relationships or unhealthy situations. 57:57 And it might make you more likely to maybe have less of a moral compass when it comes to that. I think they don't realize the impact they have. I think some of it though can be classified as very deviant behaviour and I think coercive control as well, particularly where the catfish is demanding of the person being catfished that they stay in contact, that that their life becomes limited in a way. 58:24 Coercive control And I think it can be a real control type of issue. 58:28 Speaker 2 You mentioned coercive control there. Would you tell us more about that? 58:31 Speaker 6 Previously there were laws for domestic violence relating to like if somebody had been like physically abused. But coercive control is more about the psychological abuse. And I suppose in both the UK and Ireland and worldwide, it's, it's becoming, I suppose, more recognized that psychological abuse is a huge part of domestic violence and that that should be recognized. 58:55 There's a cycles of abuse and, you know, it's that whole idea. I think catfishing can fit into coercive control in not all cases of catfishing. But I think because there's not a lot of laws to govern catfishing. I mean, there is like a harassment law in Ireland. 59:13 You know, your life is starting to be taken over by this catfish. You believe they are who they are, but then they're preventing you from doing other things. Or the second you try to leave, suddenly they come up with a false story about how they have cancer or how they're going to kill themselves or, you know, something like that. 59:29 And then that is coercive control. And I think we need to see it. And then there's another thing I I read in the Guardian about this lady who said that, you know, this catfishing situation had took away her right to consent to sex because this woman called Anna Roe met a man on Tinder and after 14 months relationship, she discovered his profile was fake and he was married. 59:53 So she said he took advantage of her trust and took away her right to choose because she obviously had engaged in a sexual relationship online with this man. And so really, it's taking away your consent to choose because you're actually talking to someone that isn't who they say they are. 1:00:10 Speaker 1 I guess the victims of the catfishing. I mean this can leave a huge mark on their laser I imagine. 1:00:16 Speaker 6 Yeah, I really think so. I mean, like shame and the wish to be loved are two sides of the same coins. If we look at it, we would not feel shame if we didn't wish to be loved. And it can be really difficult, you know, because I, I find there can be some victim kind of blaming or like people think, oh, like, how did you get catfished? 1:00:34 Like how did you not know? But The thing is there are times in our lives where we just want to be loved. So if somebody kind of presents themselves in a particular way, they show interest in you, you like what their common interests are. A lot of people are meeting online nowadays. 1:00:50 So that's absolutely not unusual to like be conducting a lot of interaction online before you meet them. And then you're kind of thinking, oh, I, you know, this person, I quite like them. We're getting to know each other. I'm giving my time to them, I'm being vulnerable with them. Then when it's uncovered that this has happened, it can just really bring up stuff from your past in terms of internalized shame and bring up a lot of stuff. 1:01:15 And I think someone who has had their trust eroded in that way could use a lot of support and validation for what they've been through. But I just don't think the law was really recognizing how devastating this can be for victims. 1:01:31 Speaker 2 Would you encourage anyone who's been through it to go talk someone to go see therapy? 1:01:35 Speaker 6 I would because I think, you know, I, I think this word catfishing, I think it just totally minimizes. We kind of see it as, oh, it's that MTV show, you know, it's no big deal. But when you actually like, do the research into it and really break it down to be duped and betrayed like that, it can completely mess up your whole system. 1:01:57 It is a trauma. And it's something, you know, obviously in varying degrees. Um, of course I'm going to say that as a psychologist, but I think if you really look into this deeply, I think it's not taken seriously enough. And I think that increases the shame that is felt by people who experience it because they feel like, I can't tell anyone, how could I have? 1:02:18 How could that have happened to me? It's really like it can be quite shaming and embarrassing. 1:02:23 Speaker 2 Doctor Molly, if the person who did this catfishing is listening, what would you say to them now? 1:02:29 Speaker 6 Think of all the time and energy you're sacrificing into deceiving other people and how that hurts them and can have lifetime consequences for them. Because it's absolutely cruel and you are worthy of a healthy relationship. 1:02:49 But I think the only way to get to that is to actually go and seek some help. You're obviously experiencing a lot of shame yourself and maybe you're not sharing this with other people, but I would absolutely share this with somebody and get some help for yourself, for you hurt anyone else because your actions have consequences. 1:03:11 Soon there'll be a lot more legal consequences for your actions, but you know the, the consequences are, are horrific. So you're you're deserving of love as well, but you need to get yourself some some help really quick. 1:03:24 Speaker 1 Thank you to Doctor Malikine. 1:03:26 Speaker 2 For a lot of people listening, this is just entertainment. Gas crack. I've had it said to my face 100 times. How did you fall for that? You got catfished you fucking idiot. Unless you've been through it you have no idea how it messes with you. 1:03:43 If you're listening to this and you or someone you know has been catfished, please don't feel ashamed. Most people never tell anyone. It just so happened that Nikki catfished to me and I have a podcast and I told everyone. 1:03:59 Had I not though, who knows how many lads would have been involved over the last 2 1/2 years. I recently spoke with a young man who Nikki catfished from months back in 2021. When I spoke to him at the time of the first podcast, he was pissed off, but it was only now that he told me just how shook he was. 1:04:19 He completely lost faith in people. How would he ever find a girlfriend or trust anyone again? It's been years and he's still working on it. This time around, she catfished his brother. 1:04:32 Speaker 1 Having spoken privately to over 100 men, we know many of them sent and received intimate images with Cora or Emma or Ether or Eema or whoever. It is our understanding that none of her fake accounts ever directly asked for intimate images. But the texts get flirty. 1:04:47 Then she sends them an image. So many of the lads respond by send them on back. 1:04:52 Speaker 2 Where does she get the images she sends the lads because they're not of her personally? What does she do with all the images she received? At this stage? She must have gotten hundreds of Dick pics now. We've never heard of any been shared, but still, what do you do with them all? 1:05:07 Speaker 1 This time around, some things were different. Last time, she usually introduced her real self into the conversation as Nikki being a friend of the girl you thought you were messaging. There was none of that this time. Maybe just because that might give it away, people may recognize her image from Internet chat rooms. 1:05:23 The allegations and stories of violence that she told this time are also a new, darker addition to her methods. We hope she finds the help she needs, and we hope that this stops. 1:05:34 Speaker 2 We found the real women whose images are being used by Nikki for these fake accounts, and we've reached out to them. 1:05:40 Conclusion Neil, you've been on dating apps. How you feeling about it all now? 1:05:42 Speaker 3 Look from this entire thing and my experience as a single man on dating apps. If an unbelievable woman pops up and she's not verified, it's probably too good to be true and not worth the hassle. 1:05:56 Speaker 1 Back in chapter 1 we told the story how Nikki's phone lit up when a message came true from the lad up north. We got sent the photo of Nikki in the pub on her phone drinking a pint bottle of Bulmers. 1:06:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, so the pint bottle of Bulmers has been a running thread in this. Yeah. And when I was chatting to Coral Donovan, it was the same in all her photos. Coral would be drinking, after all. Spritz champagne at the beach and every time on our story. Cans of cider, large bottles of cider, pint bottles of Bulmers Lad. 1:06:23 So I'm starting to think this whole thing is guerrilla marketing by Bulmers. 1:06:29 Speaker 1 But like we said back in Chapter 1, the phone lit up. Now the one thing we've been wondering is, are they sure they saw his name on screen? Like how close to the phone were they? We weren't there so we can't be 100% sure, but it was enough for us to investigate a little more. And last time we left the whole GA catfish story behind us, we stopped because we thought she stopped. 1:06:49 Unfortunately, we've all had to go again. 1:06:52 Speaker 2 It would really you'd lose faith in humanity and an online dating would have put you off. 1:06:58 Speaker 4 Oh fuck yeah, always well put off anyway. 1:07:02 Speaker 1 This is firmly. 1:07:04 Speaker 2 You're put off by the men of Ireland, but this doesn't no. 1:07:06 Speaker 4 No, no, no, just like, oh, it's just so grim. It makes me, it makes me so sad. 1:07:12 Speaker 2 That's the main thing I took from it, yeah. 1:07:14 Speaker 4 Just sad. It just makes me so sad. It's so depressing. Like it's depressing for. 1:07:19 Speaker 1 Everyone involved. 1:07:20 Speaker 4 For everybody involved. And it's just I, I don't, I don't see what you get out of this. You know what I mean? 1:07:26 Speaker 2 Neil would have put you off online dating. 1:07:28 Speaker 3 Yeah, and like we said earlier, the whole thing, the way the accounts are made to look real and then knowing that it's a lie, you just you lose faith in in so much like your your trust. And I think that's what a lot of the lads who we spoke to said is that their trust in people is completely gone. 1:07:44 Like you'd be so disarmed and caught and just. 1:07:49 Speaker 2 I think people get caught because no one's looking for it. You match with some young one from Bruce Lee. You're not expecting it to be an elaborate fake account, you know what I mean? 1:07:57 Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I I just can't. I can't believe after everything, after the last two years. Hmm. 1:08:05 Speaker 2 You didn't stop. 1:08:06 Speaker 1 We're back here again. Yeah, we're. 1:08:07 Speaker 4 Back again. 1:08:08 Speaker 2 And that it appears like AV McMahon at the time of recording this is still on Tinder, and AV McMahon's account started five months after the last year. Catfish. Like take a day off, lads, will you? Yeah, well someone else remember is this is all the one person. 1:08:26 How does she do it? Who has that kind of time? Not us lads. I'm done with this. 1:08:32 Speaker 1 Everyone out there, please stay safe online. 1:08:35 Speaker 2 And in the words of Jerry Springer, take care of yourselves and each other. 1:08:39 Speaker 1 For me, Johnny smacks. 1:08:40 Speaker 2 For me, Johnny B. 1:08:41 Speaker 4 For me, Africa. 1:08:42 Speaker 3 And for me, Neil? 1:08:43 Speaker 1 We'll see you next week. Go on. 1:08:44 Speaker 2 Good luck. In the time it took us to record and edit this podcast, Aveen McMahon has over 100 new followers on Instagram, some of them high profile, and she now seems to be the most active out of Nicki's fake female profiles. 1:09:00 But there are still several profiles on Instagram and dating apps that are active. Stay safe out there lads.