Ep. 304 Angel Investing Makes a Difference with guest Angel Investor B Pagels-Minor

Hi, I'm Katherine Gray, founder of She Angel Investors and co-founder of The She Angels Foundation. I'm also the podcast host of Invest in Her and an award-winning producer, author and TEDx speaker. Our show Invest in Her features phenomenal female founders and funders. As you know, women receive less than 2% of venture capital funding. Our series is about accelerating the funding of women by connecting them to funding resources. Let's meet today's guest. My guest today, Bee Pegel's minor, has been recognized in Silicon Valley as one of the top 40 under 40. Bee has created products for such renowned companies as Netflix and Apple. Bee, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Katherine. You bet. I love your website. You know, on your website, you mention not only do you create products, which I want to talk about, what products those are and how amazing you are. You also do executive coaching, keynote speaking. You are an activist. And I love on your site you say you're a truth teller. I've never seen that on someone's site and I also think who doesn't want to do business with a truth teller? That's what I think too. It's actually really funny. I struggled with that at first because I was like, oh, this is supposed to be a business website. But the thing is, is how can you do good business if you don't first show people who you are? I love it. And I really, really, you know, truth teller or something that really feels very important to me. I love it. And you know when I read it, I said to myself, you just emanate that. Like when I met you, I liked you. I met you at Ganges. Yes, Ganges. Yeah, the LGBTQ Angels group that Lorenzo Theone is a co-founder. And you know when we met at that event, I'm like, I want to know this person. And I also want to share that you share in your bio that you are a trans non-binary lesbian. Correct. Right. And you know, let's explain, you know, what that means. And I know you just had a baby. You have this beautiful wife and family. So let's first like get to know your background and then let's talk about, you know, this amazing technology creations that you create for these renowned companies. And also, I really want to focus today on you being an angel investor. But first a little bit about you. Yeah. So first and foremost, I'm happy that you actually brought that up. So the first thing that we have to remember is that there's a difference between sexuality and gender. Right. And so, you know, so I was born, you know, assigned female at birth. And because I'm also an 80s baby, it took me a long time to figure out who the heck I was. And so I first came out in college as a lesbian. Right. And so what that really means is that I am attracted to other females. Right. I know what that means. Exactly. Well, you know, for your guests who may not, who may not, I was like, I'm exclusively attracted to other females. But I'm also exclusively attracted to other females who also attracted to other females. Right. So it's a pretty exclusive club to a certain extent. But then I'm also trans, right. And so what that means is that I don't feel as though I am a woman or a man. Like I don't really identify. If actually if I had to put it like a calculation, it'd be like 52% masculine, like 48% like feminine. And you know, I do represent as a masculine of center. But if you ask my wife, my wife is a beautiful, film-looking human. But she's literally the one who wears the tool belt at home because I don't know nothing about that. Like I'm really good with making cocktails and wearing the apron. And so you know what it really says is that my gender representation is outside of the norm. But I still identify as a lesbian because that's exactly who I've always been attracted to, who I've always loved. And that community has been, is probably one of the most important things that helped develop me. Right. You know, coming out in college, growing up with the lesbian, softball lesbians. The bit lesbians, you know, the shame lesbians. That's because you grew up in Mississippi, right? Well, so I originally, I was originally born in Mississippi. And then I went to high school in Tennessee. And then I went to college, actually in North Carolina, before realizing I need to get out of the soft. And so I had to actually go on a Northwestern for college in Evanston, which is right outside of Chicago. And then I lived in Chicago for the next 12 years. And so Chicago, oh my gosh, which by the way, Chicago is my favorite city in the whole world. If you've never been in Chicago, figure out how to get to Chicago because it's really great. But it's also really great community, the LGBTQ community in Chicago is just really, really excellent. And so it was really, really a huge part of my foundation. And in fact, many of my first career opportunities were primarily because I knew people from the LGBTQ community who were like, oh, go talk to this person, they're going to help you get a job and all these other type of stuff. So it was really a tremendous part of my foundation. That's great that it's such a supportive community of helping each other. Yeah, I've heard that about Chicago. A friend of mine just made a movie about a club there that really was one of the first to, I think, have a gay club in Chicago. And it's their story. I have to get you the name of it. Yes. So, okay, so that's your background, that's your story. That's kind of how you ended up here in LA, getting involved in the tech world, right? Yeah, so actually, so in 2018, I was recruited out to work at Apple. Actually, I was speaking at a conference in San Francisco called Lesbian2Tech. I got off the stage and one of the recruiters was just like, hey, you know, you seem pretty cool. Yeah. Have you ever considered working at Apple? I was like, who hasn't considered working at Apple? Yeah, hello. Especially if you were in tech. And so they recruited me to the Bay Area. We moved to Los Gatos. I do not recommend if you're under a certain age moving to Los Gatos as your first stop, by the way. It closes at 10. That was not a good situation for us. That's Beverly Hills, too. Exactly. But we're also, I was like, this is the most money we've ever made and we're pretty young and we don't have anywhere to go to spend our money. Oh my God. This is a problem. Yeah. So this is the whole situation. But working at Apple is great. So I worked on the App Store, specifically a product called App Store Connect. So App Store Connect is essentially the portal that every single developer has to submit their apps through. And order for it to actually appear in the App Store. Wow. And so I was really like the heart of the App Store. Yeah. And it was really great, though, because then I got to, I got all this exposure, right? Because my customers was anyone who's ever considered making an app. So that's everyone from EA, you know, Microsoft, Google, to the kid in Ethiopia, who decides to just create an app because they want to track water. And so one of the cool things about that role, and I think was a very transformational point for me, is I realized every single day when we made decisions, we were creating an opportunity for people to have life changing, life altering, financial windfalls, right? Oh my God, that's so cool. And it really was cool. And so like it really became like a badge of honor. I think actually, if you think about most of the people who are behind the App Store, we really recognize that. We really recognize the fact that we changed lives with the App Store. And so it really kind of changes your whole perspective on scale too. Because also when I would submit, you know, when we would create something and it would go out there in the world, you know, millions of people just on the developer side would see it. And then on the flip side, on the consumer side, billions of people would be looking at this new thing that you've added. And so it is, it's just, it's really, really incredible. Wait, wait, did that impact you wanting to invest in companies? A little bit. So once there's two things about the Apple thing. So one, it was the most money we'd ever made. And I was just like, wait, so we actually have to suppose what income here. Like how do we actually reinvest this, right? My wife and I both really believe in doing transformative work, right? And so what that means is that it's like part of that's charitable, right? You know, so like we've founded a scholarship at my university, Norfush University, to help black women. And that's the WOMXN. So any, you know, basically I just didn't want anyone who had my similar background to ever struggle to go to college. Right, wait, and how do people find that? So the name of the scholarship is the Susie A. Franklin scholarship. And it's at Norfush University. And actually, yeah, if anyone wants to donate to scholarships at Norfush University, you actually can donate to our scholarship too. But it's really, really great. And why is that name? So that's my mother's name. So my mother, my mother, yeah, so my mother, unfortunately, she passed away in 2012 from a very minor disease. But you know, again, this is why healthcare is so important. You know, she went to a hospital for sore throat and she didn't make it out. Oh my gosh. And so it's been one of the privileges of my life is trying to tell people about her story. And so in fact, with the scholarship, one of the first things I asked them, I was like, can I write a note to every scholarship persistent to let them know who the person is that they're getting a scholarship from. And why, how important she was so that her name never really goes away. I want to cry. That's a beautiful story. Yeah, you know, it's really great. You know, it's really, well, it's really great being able to honor the people who deserve it. Right. You know, sometimes people think about celebrities and they're like, oh, well, celebrities are, no, that's actually not. It's usually everyday people who really create tremendous impact and change. And I think that's part of the story. And one thing I want to say is, you know, I love that you invest in for profit and nonprofit because most women will invest in nonprofit, but not for profit. Right. And so I'm glad you're doing both and that you're making a point here that it is important to do both. Yes. And we are underrepresented in both of those arenas in nonprofit. We get less than 2.6% for women and girls causes in for profit in the venture capital world. We get less than 2%. So it's so important that women and LGBTQ and by-pock, all people that are the underserved communities start investing in their own people. love that that's what you do. - Yeah, and that's how you do transformation work, right? Because, so there's two things, obviously the nonprofit's really important because you're creating this layer of security, right? That you're creating this opportunity for individuals who wouldn't have that opportunity. So that's a really great investment, just naturally. Like I think about it, when I donate to my local community, I'm creating excellence, and that excellence hopefully will pay back off, right? - Right. - Like, over time. But then when you think about it from a for-profit perspective, there's two things there. So one, you need to create economic viability for yourself, right? And I think that's what people are always like, I can survive. It's like, no, why are you just surviving? - Right. - Like you could do more than survive. You can create a windfall to yourself that allows you to do more of this transformation work. - Right. - And it also be healthy and happy. Healthy and happy people create more success. - Absolutely. - And so it's just self-fulfilling prophecy when you invest in that way. And then secondly, obviously from a for-profit perspective, you can go out and find the companies that you're most passionate about that other people may not be nearly as passionate about. And so as a result, you end up with creating again, more of this positive transformational change with these for-profit companies too. So it's all about this cyclical effect that you can actually create by looking at both sides of this puzzle. - Right. And it's so important that your message get out to our LGBTQ community to people of color, to women in general, because we are the ones that have not been investing in for-profit. And investing in our own kind is what's going to provide more funding, but also more wealth. And I'm glad you brought that up. You had shared with me that you and your wife put a certain percentage of your income into this investing as an angel investor or as a limited partner in a venture capital fund. And so you're not too build your wealth, but at the same time, we're doing good. We're helping people. What kind of things have you invested in? - Yeah, so I'm really across all over the board, right? Because I'm just a curious person. - Yes. - So for me, my biggest thesis is, it's just, it's just, does this solve something real in the world? Right? Like does this solve something that's important, that's actually gonna create some positive change? - Right. - So I've done everything from, you know, aeronautical companies to space, to companies to, you know, companies that are trying to solve like process issues, you know, operations type things. And so, you know, we've probably have four year, 50 investments, and if you looked at our portfolio, you would just go, you would say, I really don't understand what B is trying to do. And so you actually start drilling down these companies, you're like, everything on one of these companies does something really awesome for the world, right? - Yeah. - It solves some really simple problem that you know, I was just like, oh my gosh, I was like, why didn't I think of this idea? - Right. - And so it's just been really, really great kind of going through this process and kind of investing in different people. And by contrast, for instance, I haven't invested in nearly as much blockchain, right? Because like, I don't think that there's enough, clear use cases for it that are like very, that makes sense to me that I'm saying that's sustainable for five, 10, 15, or 20 years. - Right. - So like that's kind of how like my thesis is like, like, you know, especially as a product manager, when I, you know, one of the, the really interesting thing is about being, when you interview for product manager roles, is that they always ask you to do some kind of like, product sense type thing. So it's like, you know, take some really big problem and try to figure out how you would solve it. And so whenever I look at these companies, I'm always just like, you did not pass interview question. I was like, I don't think this is how you solve this problem. So if you can't pass the question, then I can invest in you. - Well, that's interesting. And I just want to always use this platform to encourage more atypical investors to invest, which would be women, LGBTQ, BIPOC, women of color, people of color. You know, we're lacking in that. That's why we're not getting the funding is because we're not recognizing ourselves at the table. And so I like your messaging about that, that you're actually doing it. And by doing it, you encourage others too. And I like that you take a certain percentage of your income and say, I'm going to invest this in that arena of angel investing because I think so many people in those categories, women, LGBTQ, people of color, often will put money into the stock market or bonds or real estate. But they don't realize what an incredible opportunity it is over here in the investment world. And that's really what I try to do every week is pull back the curtain and say, there's a whole investment world out there that you need to know about, that you can be part of. You could go to an angel group and learn about investing. And that is another question I had for you. When you decided to step into that arena of angel investing, how did you feel confident enough to know what you were doing? Did you join an angel group? Did you have some friends that were angels? Like, what was that path? Yeah, so first I started off, actually, I started off asking some friends, you know, just like, how do you actually invest? Like, literally that was my first question. Like, I don't really understand how you actually invest. And so then they were like, you know, there's these groups that like, you know, Ganges example. I'm also part of a group called the Purple Arch Fund, which is Norflustern's Venture Fund. Well, it's a Venture Fund associated with Norflustern alumni as like, 'cause Norflustern does not have Venture Fund. I've noticed that most universities just to interject, have their own alumni venture funds now. I know my Awa Mata does too. So that's a good place for people to start. And it's not only just like, you know, University alumni, but also alums of like groups of friends that's Airbnb has a venture group, right? The Airbnb Alums. So there's a lot of different ones that you actually probably are just in your local community that actually do a lot of venture investing. There's also like, angelist ventures, which has also been really great because you can kind of see lots of different types of deals and you can also reach out to people who have syndicates or syndicates are usually like one or one, but less than like 10 people usually, people who've come together and they have access to deals and then they provide access to those deals to people who are kind of out there in the world type of thing. And so it started off of talking to those folks and then they provided this list of names and actually started talking to those folks. You know, for instance, I applied to Gengels and then I asked them lots of questions and then you actually start seeing, once you become a member, you had get access to this information. What's really great is that a lot of them have lots of data points that they provide to you. They share with you. They give you lots of context on why deal is good or why deal is not good. So it starts like literally, it starts changing your brain because you start looking at these like fundamental things and they say, oh, this is really good and you're like, oh, okay, I didn't realize that that's such an important factor when thinking about an investment. And so that's really part of it. It's like most of these, there's a lot of these good syndicates that are really good about like being very kind and educating you. And so you have to find that too. So I would really highly suggest looking for the ones that really have an educational component to their work. - Absolutely, because there are so many things, I think that's the reason people don't do it is because they don't understand it. Nobody wants to jump in something they don't understand and they have to realize that it's more than, hey, do I like this product? Like I think a lot of people jump in and say, oh, there's no way this product isn't gonna be a home run, but you're not looking at all the other variables like who is the team? How much funding do they have? How much experience do they have? What connections do they have? What business do they have already? You know, I think a lot of times people just get caught up and then they make a mistake and then they lose money and they go, oh, you can't make money doing that. You know, so it's important to do it the right way, but now there's so many tools and opportunities out there like you said that have that educational component. So I'm so glad you brought that up because, yeah. I want to encourage people every week to look into the possibility of becoming an angel investor or a limited partner in a venture capital fund. That's really what's gonna move the needle of why women, LGBTQ and people of color get less than 2% of all the funding right now. So wrong. Hello, let's change it. We can change it, right? It takes us, nobody's gonna fix it. We have to be proactive. - Well, you know, and I think, you know, just like someone that made me think of two things. So first, you know, you talked about this fear of like losing, right? So first and foremost, if you've invested in the stock market over the last few months, this last few months have been terrifying, right? So we know that there's no such thing as a sure thing, right? The only sure thing is that we're gonna pay taxes, right? That's the only thing that we know for a fact. - That's the taxes. - So first and foremost, I think that's something to keep in mind. And so this is why this has to be a practice and that's why I stick to a certain percentage because if you do it over time, it's just like any stock, it's just like any real estate. You may have three to four limits, right? - Yeah. - But that fifth one, holy crap, that could be really, really epic. - Right, and you could make way more money than you could in the stock market. - Yes, you could. - Yeah, on the ground floor of a company that becomes a unicorn, you know, 50 times return or more. - Exactly. And so all of this is about patience, right? So it's about patience. It's about getting smarter as you do it. It's about, you know, as you, you know, so for instance, like my wife and I are debt free now, until like for instance, that completely changes the trajectory of how we think about investing, right? 'Cause all of a sudden, you know, we start off like just for context, also for folks. Our first few annual investments were like $500,000, right? And so then it eventually became more because we had more income over time. time. So also like I think the other thing is don't be intimidated by thinking that it has to be this large amount. Like you're not going to be the biggest check that any company gets most likely right. If you're an individual, the biggest check is going to be from one of those really big you know venture companies or something like that. What you're doing is augmenting that that puzzle for them and helping them get them a little bit further with what you're doing as an angel investor. And I think when you think about that, it takes a little bit of the burden off of you because it's like you're the helper, you're not the big bat right. And as the helper, you know, you can also you can help not only with financial funds, but you know, depending on how the situation works, you may also become someone who becomes a consultant for that company too. And I think that's the thing that I've really liked is being able to actually be available to the companies that I've invested in and actually have some actual relationships and provide a little bit of my context and like my experience to kind of help them build a better product because that's like because the cool thing about that is also the self-fulfilling prophecy right. It's like if I can help them be more successful, then that means that my investment is more likely to come through. So it's also, you know, I'm playing both sides. I have a little thumb on the scale to try to even out my my investment returns. And I have to say if a technology company or whatever has you as an investor and you're so revered in Silicon Valley, how lucky are they. And I always tell that to those seeking funding is that it's not always about just getting the money. It's about getting that person, that investor's mentorship expertise connections. That's what makes the investment exceptionally valuable. You know, I'd be remiss if I didn't circle back to Netflix because you've been involved with Netflix. Tell us what you did for them. Yeah. So when I first was at Netflix, I was a data product manager. So I built out all of the membership and finance data products. So thinking about it as, you know, they're the CFO. When the CFO is trying to figure out how much revenue the company actually made, how much revenue the company is going to have. Those were types of things that we kind of figured out. Tax authorities making sure that we know exactly how much tax we need to pay being compliant. And then also, you know, really, you know, one of the things I was really excited about is this idea of kind of changing it from this conversation of how much money we're going to make to how much money should we be making in order to support the content slate that, you know, Netflix wants to produce over time. So it's really, it was a really cool job. And then the second half, I actually worked on the gaming team. So the Netflix has gaming. I know some people don't know because it's still kind of, you know, it's still kind of in its beginning stages. But, you know, helping to build out and think through all the systems needed to launch games on Netflix as well as the various mobile platforms as well. Well, hey, thanks so much for sharing your insight, your wisdom. I so appreciate having you on the show. How can people reach you be? Yeah. So first and foremost, you know, I have to thank my wife because Pagels was her last name. So I'm literally the only B Pagels minor in the world. I was not the only B minor, which was interesting. I am the only B Pagels minor in the world. So Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, all those places are really great. If you want to talk professional stuff, I would suggest LinkedIn because I usually think professional things right go to LinkedIn. If you want to shoot this shit, which I'm perfectly fine with and talk about silly things, including the fact that a seven-month-old boy is very complicated and just likes to smack the heck out of me. You can catch me on Twitter. And again, it's B Pagels minor, everyone in the world. And I'm glad you did the pronunciation because we had that conversation this morning. I didn't know if it was Pagels. You told me it's one time somebody said, "Pagels, me, you are." And you're like, "No, we're not that fancy." Yes, yes, yes. So it is B Pagels minor. You can find them on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Facebook. I guess I do have Facebook too. And of course, you can find She Angel investors also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and me, Catherine Gray, Invest in her on Instagram as well as my LinkedIn. We really appreciate you turning in and hope that you've gotten some golden nuggets to take along your way as far as investing in other companies, especially underserved communities that are founders with game-changing ideas that are going to impact the planet and they can only do it with funding and also encouraging the founders out there with great ideas to seek the funding through these new funds that are popping up that are created by LGBT community and about and by women founders and people of color. More and more of those funds are popping up giving all of us opportunities in that arena. Thank you so much for tuning in. Make it a great week. Thank you B for being an amazing guest. Remember if you're looking to launch a business or grow your business, check out our E-Course Six Ways to Fund Your Business available at sheangelinvestors.com.