Ep 3: 75th Birthday special! Feat. Mr. Yogendra K Gurwara

you're listening to Ed Talk with Anuj. A podcast that takes you back to school to understand how far we all have come and the future we're all headed towards. My name is Anuj and this is my attempt to explore the evolution of the Indian education system through the lens of people from various walks of life. Happy listening. Hello and welcome back to Ed Talk with Anuj. This is a special episode. In the introductory episode to the podcast, I speak about how as a child I lived in a house surrounded by a small school that my parents had founded back in the 80s. With a father as principal and mother as headmistress, I'm not sure if I lived in school or was schooled at home. My dad, a teacher all his life, went on to start his own school just about the time when I was ready to begin my schooling. So naturally, I became admission number one of a tiny school he began in Hyderabad. #nepotism. I grew up with the school and around his philosophies on education. And even though I chartered my own course of life and career, these philosophies became the foundation of all the choices I have made for myself. And I'm quite happy with how life turned out. My guest on this episode is Mr. Yogendra Kumar Gurwara or YKG or Gurwara Sir as his students call him. He turns 75 this week and his mind is younger than most people I know. His senior citizen status is a joke considering the physical energy he possesses but beneficial for discounts on air tickets. His childlike enthusiasm to life and travel is infectious. What's more, in 2019, he completed 50 glorious years of being a teacher. Coming from very, very humble beginnings, he has been a teacher from a very early age. From one stepping stone to another, he travelled across the country working in some of the best schools at the time before opening his own school in Hyderabad and applying his learnings and methodologies. Today, he has been responsible for building the lives of not just tens of thousands of students but also hundreds of teachers. His unique ability to mould a dedicated teacher out of someone who shows a glimmer of potential is legendary. And he does it by example, not by preaching. The school has grown manifold. Generations of students and teachers have passed through the gates. But his singular passion of building the future generations of the country remains steadfast. Let's just say, even race horses with blinders tend to get distracted by something outside the racetrack. Not him. As he turns 75, he seems to go faster and higher with his mission towards education. So on his 75th birthday week, I pause him for a short while to talk to me on Ed Talk with Anuj. This is me interviewing my father. #ReverseNepotism. So welcome and thank you so much for being here on my show. You are turning 75 this week. Completing 75 years of a life. Is it? Do you feel 75? Not at all. How old do you feel? I don't count the age. Very good. That's a good place to start. Let me take you back to your childhood. You grew up in Jhansi. You were born in Jhansi in Uttar Pradesh. Yes. Your family moved to Uttar Pradesh from the northwestern part of India, undivided India. Yes. What area was that? Bannu. The city name is Bannu. It is near the border of Afghanistan. So the family origins are from Afghanistan's side of undivided India, which makes us Punjabi Pathanas. That's where they came in from. So you were born in Jhansi in 1946. This is one year before independence. One year before we got independence. What is it like growing up in Jhansi? I know that Jhansi was famous for two things. One is the big headquarter for Central Railway and the cantonment means the army. Jhansi was the only one for two things. Also Rani Lakshmi bhai and the fort. No doubt about it. That was in the past, but presently where I spent the time, Jhansi was famous for Central Railway, headquarter, Jhansi was famous for big army center, then the hockey wizard Dhyanshan, Major Dhyanshan and then of course Rani Lakshmi bhai. There is a significant event that happens in your life when you are five years old. Your father expires. Yeah. This is 1951. You are five years old. You have a large brood of siblings, brothers and sisters. We have five brothers and three sisters at that time. At that time, so five brothers and three sisters and all eight of you are being brought up by a single mother. Single mother. After '51, yes. '51 onwards, obviously. What were you like as a child? What were your interests? Were you academically oriented? Were you towards sports and creative and arts? What was, what were you like? Those days, children were not very much aware about the studies and what to study, what to do. We had only two things. Play and study. Go to the morning walk in the morning and play and study. At that time, there was no IIT, no need. So, it was just my fun life. Just play Gulli Danda or play T-Poo. I used to play small games. And when I grown up, from class nine, I started playing cricket. And as I told you in the beginning that Jhansi was famous for railways and army. So, railways stood as a very big two playgrounds. And there I used to play cricket in the evening. And I represented a railway student also. So, from ninth class, I became one of the recognized as an opening batsman for the railway team. So, what was, what was a good, like academically good student like? How many marks did you get at that time? Because competition exams were not there. There was very little pressure on academics, if I can. No one was comparing how many marks you got. Read, go and have fun. So, when did this comparison start? This comparison, as far as I understand, see when I became a teacher, I was a teacher in Jhansi only. Then I came to Hyderabad in Hindi Mahavidyala. Then at that time I had not seen competition at all. Then I went to Delhi Kuala Indore, public school. Then I went to Central School Puri, St. Paul's Darjeeling, Shivur Nainital. I did not hear the word competition at all. It's only after coming back to Hyderabad starting a school. And then I'll say that I started a school in 1984 even the word competition was not there in our mind. Even the commercialization of school education was also not there in my mind. These things were not there in my mind. I just want to teach children, feed them, teach them, feed them. I think since 1995, I have heard the word competition for the first time. So, after coming to the internet, did the competition increase? No, no, no. After coming to the internet, it did not increase. The tuition business was very much. So, what would have happened? I share my thoughts now. That if the teacher had a time of 60-65 rupees, in that 60-65 rupees, people say it was a lot. But competition is always there. What year was it? I am telling you from the beginning, before 1952, '53, '54. So, in that, the salary of others was 100, it used to be 125 rupees. But the salary of the teacher means that it is very low. So, the teacher did not have to wait. So, the tuition business started because people, after all, when a teacher is formed, he is a bachelor. So, I am living alone in that age, in that age, I will tell you something, you are reminding me that at that time, youth was instilled in the mind of Desh Bhakti and the values were very high. Because the country was new and independent. People were very passionate. So, the teachers who were there, today we always say that there was road learning. What can the teachers do? But the teacher had a lot of passion for the country. So, at that time, now his children are also studying. So, until the child is studying in the school, in their underage, and in that age, free education was also there. There were very few private schools. But when the child goes to college, the teacher had to pay money. So, from where will he get the money? The other people, when they see their children growing up, the teacher is also a human being. So, I thought, I have done a complete study for this thing, that maybe the tuition business started from there. So, when did the competition come from there? When the competition comes, when it enters, it is very difficult to say. But what I have seen, because I never had the feeling of competition in my heart. So, the one who has the feeling of competition in his heart, he will think of this thing. So, when the teachers get so little salary, even now they get it compared to other professions. So, why did you become a teacher? My thing is... Oh! The teacher has always got less salary. Why did you become a teacher? I... My history is different. You were playing cricket. You became a cricket star. Yes. See, wherever there was a small city, there was an exposure. In today's times, it is said that there was no exposure. In today's times. Because the time has increased, the time of the internet has come, the time of the TV has come. At that time, the elders or teachers used to say that everything was for us. They say that the job of a medical representative is very good. You get it well. Someone used to say that join the State Bank of India. You will get extra money in overtime. Someone used to say that join the railway. Now, I used to listen to all these things, but I didn't believe in my heart from the inside. I was a cricketer, a badminton player. When I was in class 12, I had very bad incidents from teachers. Teacher, mathematics teacher, physics teacher, they used to write something on the board while teaching us. From the right hand, they write. From the left hand, immediately the duster used to come. Wipe it off. So, we were not given any chance. And of course, they were all very small schools, but very big names were there. But why would they teach like that? So, I'm coming to that. The purpose was to come for the tuition in the evening. My routine was morning playing badminton. I should take my teacher on my cycle and play badminton. Come back, go to school, 2 o'clock to 5 o'clock. Cricket from the ground. I used to go for tuition there in a 10 by 10 room. 20-25 children are sitting on the floor. Teacher is also sitting on the floor and teaching. And in tuition, even today, if it is happening, it hurt me a lot. You are taught mathematics, physics in the school. Some chapter, some concept. Then go and play cricket. Evening time, tuition teacher, chemistry teacher. He was a chemistry teacher. He is teaching mathematics. He is teaching physics. One example. Suppose I have studied trigonometry during school time. That is taught by one teacher, Mr. Vashne. You can just take an example. And then in the evening, I am going to Mr. Gupta, who is teaching chemistry. He is also teaching trigonometry in his own style. What are the results? Total confusion. And this was happening in 1950s? 1964. 1964 example I am giving you. And the result was I failed in mathematics. I scored 17 marks in 3 mathematics. They were wonderful subjects. And I was able to understand in the class. Strange. You are a mathematician today. I am not a mathematician. I am a maths teacher. You are a maths teacher and you failed in 1964 in mathematics. Because I was taught by two different teachers. So in the examination, I did not remember because the only thing was none of the teachers told us to revise. And mathematics without revision, one cannot grasp, one cannot remember to write in the examination. So I was against tuition business. So in my mind it was there. I will become a teacher. I will help them, coach them in cricket, motivate them to take parts in sports. So that was the, you can say inner voice. It made me a teacher. And in Jhansi, as I told you in the beginning, the inspiration used to get from teachers only or elders. Though teacher was getting less salary, when I became a teacher, my salary was 203 rupees. Those days, whereas medical representative and other people, they were getting 600 rupees. But I decided to become a teacher because I never compared teaching job with salary. Even when I joined Saint Paul's Darjeeling, when I joined Shevakor in Nainital, when I joined Delhi called Indore. The first thing they used to ask me, what the salary you would like to have. So I used to say, I'm sorry, every school, I don't bargain in educational institution. But you at least asked for a good salary. Good salary definition was not known to me. What is a good salary? Because I know that something they will give and they have always given me as per the more than the scale, regular scale. So this was my conviction. You studied in Hindi medium all your life, right? Until you got to college in Chandigarh. Yeah, I did college in Chandigarh. What did you study? BSc, graduation in physics, chemistry, mathematics. Finally I got very good marks. How many marks did you get? I got 67%. What is 67%, nothing it is. Look at Sharma ji's son, 87% comes, 92% comes. What is 67% these days? These days, there is no value of 97%. If they feel like it, they will think that they will get 110%. What was the value of 67% at that time? It was 67%. At that time, if someone's marks came up from 55%, that was the best student. I got 55% in my class 12. Mathematics. What is the value of money then and now? Don't forget that. I got 55% in class 12. I should have been studying in 69. You know, there is one engineering college, Shippur in Calcutta in Hauda. Those days, if any student getting more than 60% in that engineering college, people used to worship that boy. Why didn't you admit me there? Why didn't you send me there? I need to go to places like these. Today, I can't even look at my report card. See, again, I'm saying it is not the report card. Those who are not able to get even today, our 90% or 100% or even 80%, and scholastic achievement and learning are two different things. Unfortunately, over the years, all eyes are on scholastic achievement. Whereas, all the books in, you can say that, Kandiji, you can talk about Vivekananda, you can talk about John Dewey, who is considered as the God in a Bachelor of Education course. You know what he says? Traditional methods are the great hindrance for the children's progress. Kandiji said, we are just enjoying these listening to this. What he said? Education means to draw out from the child whatever is there already. Same thing Vivekananda told. And educate meaning is what? Education means draw, Kate means out. This is from Latin? Yes, educate, draw out whatever is there inside the child given by the God. And nowadays, what I say? Natural talent of the children. What I say? Passion of the child. All the children are born with unique talent. Someone has got the passion for mathematics, someone may be having the passion for music, someone for art, someone for adventure courses, adventure thing, someone public speaking. All the children, all the people are born with. The real purpose of a school was is and should be help the children to know, understand his or her talent and then provide the facilities, opportunities to grow. Unfortunately, education is linked with jobs. I failed in mathematics with dignity because I was good in mathematics. I failed. Next year, I changed the school. Luckily, in that school, other than the physics and chemistry teacher, one master teacher, Mr. MC Agrawal, he made the career of many people. He was a very good teacher. He used to help the children in the evening also. And he used to tell me to revise, revise, revise. Which I am telling the children nowadays. So, what they used to tell me? Keep blank sheet with you. Just go on doing the question. Go on doing the question. Go on doing the question. And to get more marks as per your capability became a reality. Nice. So, let's go back to college again. That was English medium. And for the first time you were in an English medium institution. So, how was that experience being a Hindi medium student? There were other people like you also? Very few. Because most of them were from Delhi or Punjab. And Punjab and Delhi were good in English than UP and BIA. So, for the first time you started learning in English? English. How did you manage? That's what I am saying. It was a very unique experience and I shared with my children and teachers also who were not able to talk in English. I motivated them. That's how I did it. So, in Chandigarh, they were teaching in English, physics, chemistry, mathematics, naturally. Mathematics I used to get above 80, 85, 90, every test. But chemistry and physics I used to get 4 out of 100, 5 out of 100 because I was not able to write English. We used to study in Hindi. We used to study in Aavek. We used to study in Parivartan. We used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. We used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. We used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. And in Bulk's Samanupati, we used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. And in Bulk's Samanupati, we used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. We used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. And in Bulk's Samanupati, we used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. We used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. And in Bulk's Samanupati, we used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. And in Bulk's Samanupati, we used to study in Bulk's Samanupati. He taught us that there is one more wicket left in the last over. You can win. There is a last over. And there are 12 runs left. There are 12 runs left. You can win. Games are useful for me there. I decided to learn English. I maintained a notebook in which I made an index, cut it from the blade, A, few pages for A, few pages for B, few pages for C. So whenever someone used to say a sentence or a word was new to me, I would either ask that person what its meaning is, or I would search for it in the dictionary. And they would write it in the notebook. I think that book is still somewhere with me. And then my brothers said, "Don't worry." I said, "I'm not worried." "What do you want to do?" They said, "You write a letter in English." So I sent them three brothers, one was in here, fourth one was in engineer in Calcutta, and one was in railway. End of brothers. So I would write a letter to them in English. Tooty footy in English. Then they would correct it and send it. They also improved English by reading it in English. So they knew that this kid would also improve English. This is how I improved my English, not exactly in everything, but I was very good in conversation and while teaching mathematics. When I completed MSC Mathematics, then I wanted to do beard. Somehow it was not possible again, financial problem and all that. Then there was a post advertisement I saw in my own school where I studied only one year intermediate and I guided taught mathematics and guided college children in cricket and badminton. So one vacancy was there of a math teacher, assistant math teacher and two things I was to do, mathematics as well as taking care of science and physics lab. Then I applied, so I got an appointment there. On the second day, the principal who taught me MSC Mathematics, I went to him to take his blessings. On 25th July, I was joining SI Sartat Intercolle, assistant teacher in mathematics. He took his blessings. He still remembers me and I follow him today. Because even at that time, the elder people who speak to you, you get a lot of inspiration. He said, "It is very good that you have become a teacher. Remember one thing today, if you show a good path to one child in a year, then it is successful to become a teacher." He showed a path to one child. He used to say these things to old teachers, old principals. I thought he was so inspirational that even today, I work with his passion. And on 25th July, I started working there on 69th July. And in 2019, you finished 50 years of your teaching career. Yes. So you started teaching in Jhansi. Then you went to Hyderabad, where you joined Hindi Mahavidyale, which was South India's first Hindi medium college. Then from there, of course, the late Mr. Kishan Dutt, who was the founder of Hindi Mahavidyale, you went on to marry his daughter. What agendas you have in life? If I tell you then, that is not good. No, don't tell me things. You are talking about my mother. Let's not go there. No, thank you. Because I didn't want to get married. You didn't want to get married? I didn't want to get married. Didn't you think that if I get married someday in the future, I will be on a podcast, which is being run by my son only? Didn't you think of that? Anyway, thank you for getting married. Okay, I am going to fast forward a little bit. You decided to move to a boarding school, which was Delhi College Indore. Then you went to Sherwood College Nainital. Then you worked in St. Paul's Dajaling. You also worked in Kindre Vidyalay in Bhubaneshwar. In Puri. So what was your experience working in the boarding schools in India and the education system that they had there? See, I was influenced by an ancient Indian school education system, where the Shikshak and Shishya, they have very strong bonding, which I have experienced in Jhansi also. Means I used to coach cricket and then in the evening, two to five cricket, morning time, naturally school, teaching mathematics and sciences. And then evening I used to teach children from seven to ten. So I wanted that I should work in a boarding school where I can be with the children for 24 hours. It can be seven days a week school. Right, because that is the true type of teaching where you are not just teaching in classroom hours. It is also teaching outside classrooms. Not only that, we are playing with the children. We are eating in the dining hall with the children. We are going for excursion with the children. Means the teacher life is for the students. That is the motto of… Which is also the Gurukul system that you said. Gurukul system. British system also followed the same thing. It was a very strong bonding between the student and the teacher there. And then strong bonding with the parents also. Parents used to leave everything in the hands of the teacher in those schools. So what happened actually, when I told you that I went on changing the school, here I believe that God wanted me to have different experiences before I started my own school in Sikhandabad. Why did you start your own school? Oh, wonderful question again. See, I was very happy and I was getting very good reputation with everyone. But as I told you, my passion for teaching mathematics and physics, that I did not get satisfaction anywhere, wherever I taught. So it is very raw thought. You can say very immature thought that when I start my own school, I will see that mathematics and physics is not taught inside the classroom. It should be taught in and away from the classroom. This Josh, I did not realize that you cannot start the school from class 1 to 10 directly. I did not know this. Josh was there. I wanted to have a, that the teaching should not be based on rote learning. It should be based on, those that I did not know, experiential based teaching. I knew that the child-centered approach should be there. So what is the most challenging part of running a school? When 99.9% of schools, I am sorry to say this, everyone is saying rote learning based. Rattamar, Rattamar. So I had two challenges before me. I will not appoint experienced teachers because layers are formed. It will be very difficult to undone it. I will appoint raw teachers and train them. Secondly, I will conduct number of parent meetings in a small group or one-to-one to tell them our approach to education, which is the need of their children. It was very difficult task and I had a lot of struggle. I had to struggle, but I think that I am successful in doing that job. You have always told me that everybody wants a great teacher for their child. Nobody wants their child to grow up and become a teacher. Why are we like this society? Teachers say good-bye to them, but then rest of the year, we keep saying that we did not get marks. What happened? The marks-oriented education has become, truly speaking, ideal way, imagine a world where there is no examination. This is a John Lennon song in the making. And then the children, you know, what will they do? If someone is good in art, someone will try to grow in art. Someone is good in music, someone will. And they will also get jobs, they will also make a career, they will also get salary, they will also get money. But this system, see, if I say now education is Krishna Murthy, mother of Pondicherry, they tried their best. But education has become, you are producing the children at Cox to work for industry those days and to work for commercial organization. So this is the... You are producing labor. Labor, yeah, labor, yeah, good definition of meaning of labor. Any administrator, person who is working in administration, anything, because when you are starting an industry, the people want that you should give them the profit and you work for them. That's why the MBA and other courses started. So education has become marks-oriented. When it has become marks-oriented, now, you know, initially it started from tuition. All the negativity came because of tuition business. But there was a reason for that. Forget about me. I did not bother about the earning money through tuition. But how many people, they have to run their family? Slowly, tuition business has been converted into tutorials. Ah, so coaching institutes, tutorials. And yes, and tutorial in what? Not in geography, not in history, not in English, Hindi, Telugu, Bengali, physics and mathematics. Over the period, you can say that this change I saw in 1995 in Hyderabad. Before that, I did not know anything. I was just working. I don't want to name the colleges and all that. So this change started. Slowly, the eyes of the maximum number of parents, they are also ignorant and helpless because everyone wants the child to get a very good job in future. So their focus was on mathematics and physics. All the tutorial colleges, you will see that they boast for your child will get more marks in mathematics and physics. And it was linked with the community examination for engineering colleges. So when such thing started and it became a norm, no one can change it. You can say that suppose I am saying 1995, other person may say 1990, whatever it is. But from 1995 to 2021 or 2020, 25 years, it has become a norm of the society that we should go for engineering, we should go for engineering. Though number of fields are available, today any talent can make a fine career. Unfortunately, the previously radio jockey was not there, previously video jockey was not there, previously event management things were not there. Now content creator is available. You name. Previously we used to call only few. So today, changes should take place. These changes will take place if parent to be guided. So this is what I used to do that time. There have been, I mean you have of course the ability of building teachers from scratch. What qualities do you look for in someone when they approach you to be a teacher? As I told you, I wanted to apply raw teacher was just fresh graduate. So quality I cannot think about how they are able to teach because that I decided I'll guide them. The thing was I'm able to know whether they have real love for the children, whether they want to have, they will have bonding with the children or not. And I'm telling you my experience, unique experience, a wonderful experience by after starting the school, the teachers, those who want to become teachers, they don't work for the salary. They work to facilities and opportunities. They want that management must give them respect means value that you are an integral part of the school. Every teacher, every soul should feel that this is my school. This was the only thought which I had. And if you say that I am successful and I am able to mold many teachers, if you ask them, I think this must be one of the reasons not what salary they are getting. Now, in between all of this, like you said, parents have expectations from their children and education today, commercial education is feeding the need of the parents more than the child. Now, commercialization has entered the school now. Commercialization of education is there even throughout the world. Even USA, the best industry is education only. But it has entered the school where children have to grow in their formative years to know their talent, passion. But that they are not being allowed to do because adults are deciding what you should become. And it becomes a norm. So I don't blame the parents also because the system has become like this. So now in between all of this pressure, mental pressure that students go through because my father or my mother or my family or my society or my neighborhood expects me to be a certain way, there is a lot of pressure and then failure happens in terms of failure in exams. They're not able to score marks. They have to repeat a class. Sometimes they run away from home. And often there are very disastrous consequences of unfortunately, students taking their own life or having, you know, going through depression, anxiety, because of all of this pressure. I'm sure you have faced a lot of these stories. Yes. That is why I have been bringing out newsletters, brochures, conducting parents meeting that is cool education should be a joyful journey, not a race. See, when children are pressurized from 11th and 12th, they were the time. It's okay. Now it has come down to 9th and 10th. Now it has come down to 6th class. They may not be far when the competitive, all these things, the pressurization start from class one. See, till class 10, children, they will hear, listen. They don't have any say to tell anyone. They please listen to me. Please listen to me. So over the years, frustration is piled up in their mind. When they come to intermediate, forget about intermediate, I'm talking about the age. When they cross, when they cross age 15 years, highest time of the teenager, that time they want freedom. This is what I have been doing in Sherwood and Heritage. I wanted 11th and 12th because same thing happened with me also. It must be happening with many people. But who will guide? That is the time children want to do the things, what they want, what is their inner voice. But society does not allow parents also helpless. Parents also don't understand the children because how can they understand? They are busy in their job. Their intentions are good. Intentions are good but they are helpless. The counselor is not that one day counseling. It's a continuous process by the counselor. Then only parents and the children will understand that. So then some people, they can't control their frustration. Forget about running from home. They want to run from home for what? They want some place where they get so less, where they get someone to listen to them. And they are confused. Sometimes they take wrong direction, sometimes they commit suicide. 2014, from 2014 if you take the statistics, again I don't want to name the place because I'm not here to kid size anyone because everyone is doing the job for their livelihood. How many lakhs of, thousands of people are committing suicide and those people are from 11th and 12th. When they are forced to join tutorial colleges or coaching center for community examination. And community examination means mathematics and physics. Very little biology. Mathematics and physics. A child want to become a dancer, a child want to become a musician, a child want to become an artist. A child want to have, many lines are there. No one is there to guide the parents. Then children take extreme step. So this is what I have been doing in Sherwood and Heritage Valley. Guide the parent first. Let the child grow in a natural way. We are there to help. Children should study, I always insist, children should study mathematics, physics and chemistry if possible. If they are not in commerce, commerce. Because mathematics is not connected with engineering directly. Physics is not connected with engineering. Chemistry also, biology not with medicine. Intermediate commerce and account not with business. This is to develop the reasoning. Because those subjects are designed, the syllabus of those subjects is designed in such a way that it develops reasoning in the child. That is a very prime period. And the syllabus was designed before engineering even existed? Yes. I mean, mathematics, the concepts in mathematics were not developed because he engineering. Thank you Anuj. You know all these things. Book in Tigno Matri and Coordinated Geometry was written by Loni in 1890 in England. And all the present books in mathematics in Tigno Matri and Coordinated Geometry, they have the question from that book. Only thing they have reshuffle. Did Loni send his children to tutorials? Those days tutorial. You take the example of Einstein. You take the example of Newton. You just see the number of examples. Why do we tell the children to study biography? Why do we want a teacher to study biography? So that they understand the passion of the children should not have the back seat. Education slavers should have, first of all, games, natural need of the children, music and art. That is also natural need of many children. Then values. Now people say value mean moral and ethical value. You know what is the real meaning of value which I have experienced? Spiritual development which I have experienced. Otherwise the saint sitting on the Himalaya. That is spiritual development and chanting the shlokas from Veda. No, that should be there. The real spirituality means total surrender by the child for what he wants. What he wants to do in his or her life. So how can in this entire high pressure environment, how can teachers help children find their inner voice or pursue their passion? What are the things that teachers should keep in mind? It is possible now. How? Previously, totally it was road learning. Many people say Britishers left this, that, that. Now that is past. People let people say and I also used to share, that is past. I am seeing that last 10 years. When YouTube was introduced, I used to have meeting with my teachers. Now the best methods of the world are at your doorstep. How? People sitting different corner of the world. A great mathematics teacher, a great physics teacher, a geography teacher or a history teacher. Now he has made his video and that video is reaching many people. This is how it started actually. So after the, now today the world has become techno. We say that. You know what I shared. Technology is a tool for the journey of school education of a child. Technology is a tool. Technology is not everything. But that journey needs a base. Base is needed and base can be given today through experiential learning. How? Road learning is, there are three aspects, teaching method, which I have been trying. One is road learning, road learning, road learning. Second is conceptual. You know how it based on which sequence? I here, I forget. I see, I remember. I do, I learn. In Pondicherry, they are following these sequences. Where there is only six or seven children in each class. At the Aurobindo school. Aurobindo integral, sorry. Aurobindo integral is cool. They are following this. And I have been trying to follow this. I here, I forget means lecture method. Just mark up. The forgetting curve plays its role that after sometime you will forget. Even what I am sharing now, people will forget. Right. Second is, I see, I remember. The blackboard concept was given so that children can see and hear what teacher is talking. You know what sequence you are following now? Speak, blackboard, notebook. All the teachers. Don't speak for 40 minutes. Speak, use blackboard. And I here, I forget. I see, I remember. I do, I learn. Now projector, videos, YouTube, through YouTube number of videos are there. The projector once upon a time used to be cost three and half lakh rupees. Now it is 25,000 rupees. Now when projector is used through the videos, we are showing those teaching methods given by number of teachers in all over the world. The concepts are clear. Still, learning is not that effective. Learning, because video, through video, learning through video, only 30% children are able to learn. Hearing, 5%. Through video, at least one advantage is there. So now the education system, the approach has shifted from road learning to conceptual-based learning. If you really want happy children, I call it happy child, happy adult, experiential learning should start. Previously, teacher used to show demonstration. So that is again, children are not using. Their ears and eyes are working. But when child does at his own, so ears, eyes and hands are working and all the signals from ears, eyes and hand go to the brain. The better learning takes place. So now with all of this, with experiential learning, conceptual learning, which has become so important for kids to use their hands. How has the pandemic affected learning? Because children are now looking at a screen. You said, "I see, I remember. I hear, I forget." But they are not able to do because last one and a half years it has been online classes. How is that affected? And I'll just add to that. There are, now, ed tech has come up. There are apps for everything. How does this aid in teaching? My experience says, from class 1 to 10, they are formative years. Adults are giving, talking about school education. Adults think that this approach may help the children. My experience says, laptop, mobile, smartphone, they cannot replace regular teaching of chalk and board. Because children are passing through formative years. See, any impact, suppose I have seen the, some war in India and other country. So I have only experience. I will compare. Now modern children, today's children, they will not compare that war. Suppose computer was not there once upon a time. Mobile was not there. Now those people will not compare. It's only we compare because we have seen the changes. When you say five decades, so I have seen the changes. I am telling you, children class, till class 12, actually they live for present. Adults live for future. Why they are having fear because of adults? For children, you will be surprised. I am giving you in writing. It will be a very unique experience after two years, three years, four years, when Corona goes away. And another Corona may come. Yeah, we never know. So they will be ready for that. Pandemic situation, first of all, has taught us, mainly which were ignored totally, how to take care of hygienic situation, hygienic conditions. We had forgotten about that. We took it for granted. Yes. The first thing, the most important thing. Second thing, many children and teachers will realize the importance of physical fitness. Because just sitting, see, last year, people were sitting before the laptop and enjoying and video is off and something, something, then they were happening. That's the natural action of the children. But now they have realized that sitting before the laptop for continuously, forget about the instruction coming from outside. Their neck, excite, they have to do. Emotional, the classes should be there for emotional development also. Because when you are sitting in home alone, even teachers, even adults, that's why, Hanuji, if you remember, I have given five development schools. Emotional, social, physical, spiritual and intellectual development. At this moment, pandemic situation, emotional development should be taken care by the school, religiously and physical development. Many teachers never used to touch YouTube. Now, they are trained for that. So, these are the positive changes this pandemic situation has brought. See, we are talking about our big schools. Their parents can afford and the school can also provide facilities. Then the schools differ from, someone can provide a small facility, someone can, there is no end. But during this pandemic situation, how many children could not get even this opportunity? I am again optimistic. In any family, if a child is deprived of getting good education, still those children have done wonders. Yeah, throughout history, they have. So, these children, I pray that after the school reopens, this past will become an experience, not as a stumbling block, but I am sure it all depends upon the teacher. Past is past, past is not there. Forget now, the future is waiting for you. Now, this is what my prayer is for these children. Your experience will become a catalyst for change. Yes. And number is more, no doubt about it. But then, I always say, which year were the teachers? When schools were not there, then what are the situation? Because school started in 1600th century. Before that, the formal schooling was not there. So, we just discuss and share, but I discuss with optimistic feeling that all depends upon the shikshak, the teachers, how they bring the, how they motivate the children and how they help them to forget the past, take only the reference from that and move forward. You've come a long way from that small town in Uttar Pradesh and then you've built your life. And I think in the process, pursuing your passion, you have managed to change the lives of thousands of students who are now living their lives as adults all around the world and impacting the society wherever they are. And a lot of them, I mean, almost all of them, they remember you fondly, they come and meet you, they take your blessings. And I think this is something that is possibly your greatest achievement that you have impacted society in a very large way by creating responsible generations of adults. Anujya, yes, you can say that great achievement, but I did my duty as a shikshak and I believe that as Vivekanand said or Kalijibra said or many people will offer education, because there have been my ideals as far as their comment on, school education was concerned, education was concerned. Success is a journey, not the destination means. One should continue working because success is not there. Success is just a word in our mind given by the elders. So I think this is my philosophy that our job is to, like suppose I'm a teacher, my job is that I should help the children. I should provide the faculty, I should provide them the opportunity so that over the period they know, understand their hidden talent and then they use it in the school and clear the way for them to use in future because world has always been a competitive world. The complexity of world, no one can decide, no one can guide. They have to learn at their own and then they do it. I have to just prepare them for the challenging world ahead. Lovely. I think with that we come to a close. Thank you so much for being on It Talk with Anuj. Happy 75th birthday. Thank you. May God bless everyone. But why am I 55% in maths? Thank you for listening to It Talk with Anuj. I hope you enjoyed it. New episodes drop every Friday so don't forget to subscribe and follow It Talk with Anuj on social media to stay updated. I'll see you next week.