Ep. 263: Ziggy Marley on Family Rules for Life, Music, and Success

Welcome to And The Writer Is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's legend is a songwriter's songwriter, an artist's artist, and a storyteller's storyteller. His music carries the spirit of generations of reggae tradition. He inherited a legacy, but built a voice entirely of his own. A Grammy-winning artist, activist, and a lifelong student of music, he has spent decades proving that songs can be both a reflection of the world and a force to change it. And the writer is Ziggy Marley. Yo. Yeah. What is it about reggae specifically that is so healing for the soul? Yeah, I mean, reggae created in the heat, you know, because Jamaica is a sunny place, so we created the heat. So it goes with the heat, you know, it goes with the sunshine, you know. It's because the intention of the music was a spiritual intention, and coming from the originators who were searching for spiritual identity, you know. During, after colonialism and the independence of Jamaica, and the kind of uprising of this culture of rebellion within the Rasta movement, and Rasta was seeking another. You know, the point of view and the whole biblical perspective of Jesus Christ, and, you know, Jesus Christ was a white guy, we need our own. So that was a spiritual journey, really. And so it have, and it have a lot to do with love, unity, and, you know, just going against, you know, the evils of the world, you know. So I think that's why it touched the soul, because that's what it's meant to be, you know. In "Love is My Religion," when you talk, like, it's a fascist thing, you know. It's a fascist thing, you know. In "Love is My Religion," when you talk, like, it's a fascinating song to me, because, I mean, it's pretty clear what the song's about, but it's what the verses say that's really interesting. Yeah. Are you a religious person? Do you think of being, if love is your religion, are you a religious person? No, I mean, the words I'm, you know, the words I'm more used to define it is, is debatable. I don't know a religious person. I mean, we kind of go against the grain in terms of how we identify ourselves. And that's a, that's a thing in Jamaica, too. Like, we, you know, we have, we speak, we have a different way, especially within Rasta culture, of turning things upside down, you know what I mean? So, like, the mother said, you know, you just say, hey, let's get down. We all say, let's get up, because we don't want to get down, you know what I'm saying? So, we have a way for, for flipping. So, really, I don't say, I don't use the terminology religious, because we find religion to be not, not what it's supposed to be for us. Like, it's a really divisive thing, religion, because, you know, the religion and the divisiveness, and it's a really thing. It's a really thing that locks people out, if you're not a part of X religion or Y religion. So, we don't identify it like that. But spiritual, I mean, I grew up in church. I grew up with religion. But I was always a free-minded, search-and-seeker type of person. And so, it never really, it, like, I was like, religion, nice. It really opened a door. But there's more doors to be opened. This is not the only door. Because it's just words. You know, just words. So, I see myself as a spiritual, but mostly as an open-minded person who is continually trying to evolve and grow and know there is so much more to learn and to know and to understand and never stop, like, just being like a child, like, inquisitive and curious and asking questions. Like, I'm always asking questions, no matter how much. There's always a question, like, you know? So, that's, that's how it is, you know? You have a lot of siblings. Were you guys, are you all similar in that way? Or was it always, I don't know, Ziggy's got, Ziggy's going to ask the questions. Were you always, were you an outlier in that? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. More than others, there's help. You know, there's those philosophies, the life philosophies that influence a human being to say something. And music is a way we say something. So, I think it's coming from that foundation. Really, music is like the next part of it, but it's not, it's not that part of it that makes us who we are. It's a part, it's our everyday life, how we grew up, how my auntie teach me how to treat people, have manners, say yes and thank you and please. And, and be humble, you know? So, I think that's where it's coming from. And we all, we all grew up with that philosophy and that philosophy got through the family, you know? Yeah. My, my parents listened to a lot of music, but they, they didn't, they never, my, my dad kind of wrote some songs, you know, around the house or whatever, but it wasn't, it wasn't a profession for them. So, for me to pick up the profession of it was this whole other random path. It wasn't the family business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I like that. You have seven kids. Yeah. Are they following in the family business? But our business is not music business. Our business is life business. That's what I just told you, right? I just said that they are following in the family business. Yeah. But it's not music. It's how we treat, it's how we are as human beings. That's our business. I love that. That influenced the music. Now, whether they're going to be in music. I'm not pushing them. And then, you know, I feel like every child has to have music in their life, whether they become a musician or not. Music is a very important aspect of growing up, you know, for children. Like, we grew up with music because, you know, yeah, our family is music, but music was a part of the culture. Like, you know, children dance to music. Music is very important in the upbringing of children. And so my children grew up with music, playing music, learning music, enjoying music, you know. Right now. Last night, they were making demos. Hey, daddy, come listen to this. I was like, yeah, all right, but that's not the key. So, you know, so it's a part of it, but more on the kismet of more than music, because the world's changing. And I like when, it's not like one time. You have to be up for the more than music for real. What kind of music do you play in your household? We play, you know, also a lot of type of music. Reggae music is a foundational music, of course. We play, me personally, like, hip hop and, you know, everything, rock, Rage Against the Mind, every little thing, because, yeah, we're opening up to everything. And sometimes you just feel like a certain type of music, you know, that is not reggae music, because you want a different vibe. Jazz music or Mazda, you know, sometimes you just listen to a bee, a frequency. Well, speaking of frequencies. One of the things in the new album that's fascinating is the detuning from 440 to 432. Yeah, yeah. This is the dorkiest conversation for people who don't know how tuning works, but in the United States, it's tradition, or in the Western Hemisphere, most people tune to A440. In Europe, sometimes it's 445. Right. So it's sharp there, it's 440s here, and you detune it to 432. Which means that the whole album sounds different than somebody else's album that would be in A440. Why did you detune the album? Or not the album, but like the guitars, you know? I never see that as detuning. Oh, okay. Because D. Teach me. Right. No, so this is Rasta, right? Yeah. Detune. I don't see that as detune. You uptune to 432. I got it. All right. We're speaking. Now we're on the same page. I got it. Why we say that, though? Because. I remember some of my musicians, somebody in the band was like, okay, we're going down. I'm going to say, no, we're not going down. We're going up. Because 432, even though the number is lower, it's still a higher frequency vibration for how it affects people. You know what I'm saying? So you can't watch a number. I have to watch the effect of what the frequency does to see if it, does it bring you down or does it bring you up? Is it, you know, so for me, that's my, in my head anyway. That's how I do it in my head. I always kind of flip it to the bright side. I always look upon things at a different angle. So the reason why I do 432 really was I wanted to do something different. I'm like, you know, I've been doing this for years. And as a creative person, like I don't want to keep doing it. I get bored. I don't want to get bored. I get bored. I don't want to do the same thing over and over again. I don't want to, my next album is not going to be like the other album, you know, but the frequency is going to stay the same because I like it. And I just was researching and I'm always from, I was a little youth coming up through music. I read a lot of books and I was always searching for like this magic, this, this mythical music. I'm always searching for that mythical music that, oh yeah, I need to make this music that when it hits speed, that the frequency and the angels and the universe have a big imagination. So a part of that journey was like, you know, looking at the frequency and then like, I've always heard about it and the, the, the, the, the mythology of it and what it's supposed to do. Supposedly, as I read, it's, it's closer to the frequency that human beings vibrate at and all of that. They might have a whole, a whole speed about it, right? So, oh, that's cool. Let me try this out. So I'm going to try it out and I like how it feels personally to me. And if it feels nice, to me, then I'm going with what I feel. So that was the first reason why, because I like this frequency. I feel my singing is, I feel my singing, how my, my voice and how I vibrate. It feels, I feel something different, you know, to me personally. So that's why I went with it. And then we tried it live before we did the album. We say, we're going on tour. Let's, yo, let's do this. And so a lot of guys had to like, they weren't sure we had to get some new tuners that could, do it and the keyboards and all this stuff. And we did it. And I really like it. I really feel a difference to me personally. And I feel that makes me perform differently. That makes me interact and feel the people vibe differently also. And I just like being different too. I like being different than everybody else. I don't want to be like everybody else. I want to be like me, you know? So I like, I like, I like shaking up stuff. I like doing things differently and that's, that's, that's a part of who I am. So we go at 4:32 and I think for me, unless there's one song that's not 4:32, I think it's Bright Side because it never feel, cause I'm falling feelings. I'm not falling like it has to be. This is how it feel. And so Bright Side, I wasn't singing it. How it never feel right in 4:32 singing it. So we say, you know, let's go 4:44. I got a little more, a little more push out at 4:40 and 4:32. And so that one, that song was saying, you know, this one, I feel 4:40. So it's not like I'm like extreme marijuana, just stick. It's like a follow my true feelings. You know, it's something that if we showed two tones, people could hear it. If you had just straight up sine waves, but when you're playing a concert live or you're listening to an album, it would take somebody who either has perfect pitch or so used to this to really define the difference. Although they might hear that one song and be like, this is, this is sharp. Not that the other ones are flat. Right, right, right. The other ones are, are sharp also, but sharper with the 4:40. Well, there you go. You're getting me. You're getting me. This is going to be the most positive conversation I've ever had in my life. And I'm, I'm in for it, but it's, you know, it's, it has anybody as any fan or any person who's heard the album without knowing that said anything about, you know, it's that, that whenever I have somebody who comes in with this mixed note or something where it's this, that wrong thing, the quote wrong thing, right? Which is what makes it right. Right. Because it makes it unique. It gives it life. Right. It makes it unique. And so I'm always, I know you want to keep that in there. And the person who comes up to you and mentions it at a concert or sometime in your life, give them a hundred bucks and be like, congrats. You found the thing. You found the Easter egg. Yeah. Yeah. Because like that's the thing that has anybody mentioned it yet as there's such an audio door question and stuff like can people tell there's been a few people who come and say it's different this different this time where there's a different it has been a one or not, not, not, not like many people, but one or two people pick it up. I mean, personally, like honestly, like when I listen to music now and then I put on this record, I'm a musician. So I'm, I'm hearing, and I'm doing some very sensitive to it, but I do feel a difference. I hear a difference too. I love what most of feel it feel different, more than sound different. I think it's a feeling. It's not us. It's not an audible thing. It's how the frequent is how they make you feel. So, you know, you have to check it, you know, when you do a lot of albums, I've worked with a lot of people who've released 10 albums, 15 albums. Yeah. And when you get to that 10, 10th album and that 15th album, you're trying to make sure you're writing about something you've never written about before. You know, when you co-write songs, a lot of times, like the person comes in and they're throwing out ideas. Like I already have this song, you know, and in your case where you you've done so much music, you've written a lot of music, you walked in here and we were playing with synths and the roads and playing with different things and different things kind of sparked different kinds of, yeah, kinds of musicality that make this album unique from a writing perspective. Yeah. You know what, what makes this album different from your other albums, regardless of the detuning part? Yeah. Well, this album, you know, I mean, as you said, my dude for years. So early on in my writing new songs and thing, it was all about the inspiration. Like it was all about, it has to be magic. It has to be like something that, you know, and over the years, well, not over the years, but this album specifically kind of like went against, not went against, but kind of grew into a realization of other aspects of even songwriting that doesn't have to be inspirational, but can be, um, mathematical. Or, you know, there's another, there's a scientific, you know what I'm saying? So this album, I kind of balanced inspiration and I had to, because I needed to go somewhere else. I couldn't just wait on the inspiration. I had to start thinking in some, not, not on every song, but my general mindset was don't be afraid to be scientific or mathematical, because that's also a part of the universe. It's not just inspiration. Inspiration is not the only element in the universe where we can get, get stuff from science is a part of that. Math is a part of that. It's all a part of one thing. So I had to accept that on this record and explore that more scientific, mathematical, you know, whatever the timing and the thing and the thing, when the thing come on, so that's, what's different. And the next thing that's different. And it's probably been a period of years since I've done this in the early days. I would, I did spend a lot of time when I was, when I was living in Jamaica with, with the songs, but I think there's a part of my career where I was more focused on like just getting an idea and then going into the studio and then finish it in the studio. This album was like, no, I got to finish these songs before I go into the studio. I can't go into the studio. I'm like trying to make the song. I really want to spend more time, build up, build a more deeper relationship with the songs I'm making and full, like write them out, like get it where you want it to be before you go into the studio. Don't wait. Don't be like, Hey man, when I get into the studio, I'll just finish it up. Just come with a little idea, one verse or a one chorus and call it a day when I'm in it. No. So that's the difference I did with this album too was that I had a much longer deeper relationship with the songwriting process than I've had in a few years. I find math to be inspiring in the studio, which is antithetical to how most musicians want to talk about music. But I really enjoy the symmetry and, and with how you know if you have this really long asymmetrical chorus that if you just repeat the chorus again, then you have symmetry. You know, like what are ways that you can mess with symmetry in some ways or repetition without being obvious or over repetitive because that's cool too. Like all these things that but the math of it to me is a open is a doorway. It's a door that I can open and actually within that box is where I think I can flex as a lyricist where I can flex as a melody writer. You know, there's there's something about the the confinement of it when you realize, oh, this is their infinite possibilities. You think everyone thinks the thinking of music as math is is one plus one, right? But it's not. gets into the four 30. too right yeah you know of it all we were like oh you can do that and oh i didn't know that oh yeah of course you can detune like all the police records were all sped up so they were all hired and i was like you can do it right right right right yeah it's all choice it's all if the more you care about the math and a lot of ways it feels like it opens up some possible it does yeah no but that's what i discovered and i'm happy because again as i say it's it's a new space for me so it's very exciting it's like it's very exciting for me to be in a new in a new space you know so that that is inspirational in itself being in that new space you wrote many mourn for bob and and on this album and you know we'll talk about how you how you developed your musicality through your childhood to now and all this and whatnot but it seems like it's uh you know it's 45 years since you lost your father right why why is now the time to talk about mourning your father well i think this is the inspirational side of it now this is not this has not this one has nothing to do with mathematics this is all inspirational and with this there's no re i don't have a reason i don't know the reason i didn't i didn't like oh now is the time um whatever happened in my life or whatever caused me to do it is what caused it to do it i don't have a explanation as to why i can i can theorize i can make a i have a theory right i have a theory um the relationship between me and my father who is such a legend and you know to people and you know he's always in my in in my aura then he he's always a part of me and i'm always a part of him um it's just that as a creative as an artist as a musician as a human being as a as a man it's just i think the relationship change in a way that i can relate to him in that song in that way where probably i couldn't have done before because of where i am in my life now as a you as a man as a person and also i think like because i don't know as i said this is a theory i don't know if this have anything to do with it but last two years i spent like kind of deep diving into my father because i was doing the bob marley movie i was a producer and you know i was writing and being creative with that so i had to go i had to like think even more deeper than i did before like you know it's my father i grew up with him you know he passed away and yeah i know him but for real look look on him in a deeper sense now than i did before kind of reveal more things about him and me in that in that process his humanity his um vulnerability because we see our father as this great you know god you know me i say and people see him so we as my father is like oh you know so but now i was i was exploring more and realizing and using my own experience and emotion as relatable to his and just seeing him as a person now different than like bob marley my father or bob marley the star the legend or the great prophet or whatever you want to call him delving into what he must have went through as a as a as a as a human being and the struggle that he went through emotionally and mentally which we know as adult and mature enough to to kind of accept that as a part of us that yeah we have mental things we have got you we have emotional things we have got you because we never grew up that way we grew up as tough like emotion you know like you can't but looking now deeper in him there was a lot of that that we never we never choose to say we choose to say just the top side but we never you know we never take the deep dive so i think the deep dive might have something to do with that too and just understanding him from an emotional and mental perspective as a person you know he was so much younger than you are now when he passed away do you still see him as being older than you you now see him as being younger yeah he's younger than me yeah yeah he's my brother yeah like he's not just that he's my brother we we are we are we are we're from the same cloth not just from his blood but from before even upon a spiritual thing like i am a i like i am from the same club that he's from you know we're brothers in that club i was thinking about this yesterday and i knew you were coming over i was like is is that an umbrella like is it a safe place to be part of this family or is it a shadow some days it's i mean most of the time it's safe sometimes that shadow because you know you know we you can never be looked on for just what you did. Because if I was not, and if I didn't see, it's a different look from people on the outside. It's a different mindset. So everything, and a lot of the people I'm seeing, it has to be compared to that, of course, because that's how human beings are. But we acknowledge that, we understand that. And we know our place. We're not trying to be anything more than who we are and doing what we're here to do. And so we come to terms with all of that in understanding that the purpose that I have here is as important as any other purpose. Whether it acknowledge or not, you have to do your work. You have to do your job. Because that is why you are here. So just do it. And just do your job and go. It's like covert operations. Just do your thing. Nobody. But you know what you're doing. And you know why you're doing it. And you know what it is about. So that is it. But yeah, most of the time it's really a positive. As you say, you get a lot of love. You get a lot of, like, before they even know you, it's like, yeah, man, we love you. But when they get to know you, then they understand and say, yeah, I really love you. So yeah. Walk me through the day. This is from a songwriter's perspective. Walk me through the day that you worked through and wrote Many Mourn for Bob. Let's see. It happened over a period of time still, I think. But I don't know that message. I don't know what caused it. I don't know what was the catalyst. I have no idea what the catalyst is. Do you pick up your guitar and just say, this is what it sounds like? Or are you singing this song? I think during the deep dive, I was remembering the funeral. Because I remember I danced at the funeral with my brother. We were on stage. I was remembering the funeral. I was reminiscing. Because sometimes I reminisce on my father, his life, our life together. Not as a musician, but as father and son and children. Sometimes I remember those days. And I think I was remembering the funeral and, like, the feeling. And I saw, like, sometimes you don't remember stuff, then you say, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You see yourself in a photo or a video, and you say, oh, man, look at me. So I was kind of reminiscing, I think, about it. And I think that's where it starts from, like, Many Mornings for Bob. And I think I started talking about the drive to Nine Miles, which is in Jamaica, St. Anne's, where he was born and where he embodies right now. Because there's things in that song that really is from, it's from the memories of that. Like, I remember when we usually go St. Anne's, it's a mountainous part of Jamaica. And I live in Kingston, but every time I would go to St. Anne's, as a boy, as an adult, with my father, without my father, the stars, I always remember how close the stars look. And I always would see, like, shooting the stars. So I remember in that song, I'd say, the stars are getting closer. Nine Miles. Nine Miles away. So that's from my memory of being in Nine Miles and just seeing the stars. You know, so, yeah, I think that's, it's me reminiscing as a, not as a songwriter. It didn't, I didn't go about, let me think about my memories and then write a song about it. It was me just having a human moment and then just singing about the human moment that I was having, you know? One of the great things going through, a lot of your music. And I grew up in a, you know, when I was in college, I was really into reggae. And this is like, you know, not to date myself, but late 90s, early 2000s. And it's like prime, like so many great Ziggy albums. So like, this is one of the things that you do. One of the things you do really well is economy a lyric. Yeah. I don't know. Well, like you, well, you, I mean, if you're into hip hop, if you're into hip hop, you're, you're, or you're into whether that or folk music, a lot of times people are just like, it's a lot, a lot of, I, it's, they, they cover a lot of, um, this is weird thought. Like the, in a way, the bigger, the, the, uh, the bigger the words or the more descriptive the bigger the melody the bigger real estate that takes up versus a lot of people who might use a lot of fluff you can't use it you can't use fluff in reggae to make songs that matter it feels like you have to make choices where you say the stars are getting closer nine miles away it's not a lot of lyrics it's just lyrics that tell a more descriptive scene than you know there are stars in the sky and some of them seem small and they're shooting you didn't have all that you had two lines to say a lot yeah I feel like I don't know man I can't speak for everybody within reggae or whatever genre but for me personally NMPA is our lead sponsor yet again what is the National Music Publishers Association what do publishers have to do with songwriters anyway well unlike artists who can be unsigned artists there is no such thing as an unsigned writer you can be a self-published, a co-published or a published writer publishers only make money if songwriters make money so NMPA goes and fights for you they go to congress, they go and support the community they fight DSPs to get you paid more that's what they do they fight for you and they fight for this podcast so thank you for fighting for songwriters NMPA thank you for fighting for us too let me tell you about Splice's Sounds Plugin it brings millions of royalty free high quality samples right into your DAW making it easier to search, preview and drag and drop sounds all over within your project in any DAW FL Studio, Logic Pro, you know how it works I've been testing out a new tool called Variations that lets producers create new versions of music of any Splice sample that adjusts structure, key and BPM while preserving the sound's core characteristics that's because every sample in Splice's licensed catalog of more than 3 million is traceable to its original creator the original sample creator is compensated each time their sound is used as a source and each time the variation is downloaded this means that there are more opportunities to use the samples you already love and more ways for creators to get paid Variations is available to try now in Splice's Sounds Plugin check it out thank you for sponsoring and the writer is I really just try to be true I don't try for like I'm not trying to I'm just trying to be true to me I just want to sing something I know that I feel it in my heart yeah and I didn't put words just put words or if I try to make it a thing even though as I say I won't mind and I'm experimental I have been trying like there's Racism Not Killer is a good example of this every now and again I want to change up my format I don't want do a four bar and I do this with the banter all that while you know people used to fours four everything four four yeah yeah so I've been messing with them let's do threes and let's make a verse one verse longer one verse who cares yeah you know like Racism Not Killer is like chorus and a very long verse and then a chorus at the end cause that's it felt that's how it felt to me you know like I think I started out doing like the usual and I was like nah this just feel don't feel right so within my writing and with my creation I just tried to be true to how I feel and there's no rules I don't have any rules it could be less or it could be more if it feels right you know what I'm saying so but as you said the economy is more more the more the the rule and the exception is like me going outside of that and you know just because I'm interested and I want I wanna like try something that I never did before or something different than I did before I like doing that you know your story's pretty famous but what is the moment when you start thinking that you're not that you're a musician that you have your own songwriting in you how old were you when you first picked up a guitar and started playing how old oh yeah man 9, 10 year old but I don't think that realization come until even right now because because of the dynamics within my legacy and things and even though I was like on what you call automatic because it's it's happening to me I have no time to think about it it's just happening so it's automatic going on but lately even with this album previous albums too of course but I'm starting to kind of realize myself before I was it's just happening without me having that self-realization and like because I never did like to think about myself much you know but the realization of myself and like upon this album what I realized I realized I had my own I realized I have a style like I kind of realized oh this is my style and one of my styles is like I'll make something sound happy but then the message is very racism killer is a good example of that like that's I feel like I kind of think about like is this what I am is this what I do I make things like sound light but it's heavy underneath like there's a heavy thing but it sounds kind of like hey and I'm wondering if that's what I do yeah well you you know I was noticing you do the opposite too though it's like if it's like you know yeah in in Beach in Hawaii yeah it's a minor minor minor chord it's talking about wanting to do wanting to take a a walk on a beach in Hawaii and yeah you know but you do that a lot too yeah I do I do do that a lot is that is that by design is it is there a part of you that keeps the balance of if it's a positive song I'm gonna try to darken the chords or let me tell you let me tell you the truth because I never used to like major chords I wasn't a major I like minor chords like I grew up feeling more attached to minor chords and I don't know like it touched me more than major chords to like but the funny thing is and this album and in this and that's why this album is different too all of these little things is that I'm drawn to use it I want it to and it's a part of the science too it's a part of learning the science right happy it should be major right it's a part of me like obviously before I was into the science I was going off of feelings but on this album I told you I didn't know I did I work with the science and what some of the stuff I did was like yo cause I'm I love the minors so much and I want to do something different and this album I said let's do some majors man I've been doing minors I love minors like I want to do something that is against even me you know for try for shake things up within myself and so I did a few things I don't remember the exact song but I remember I do a few things major in the major key which is kind of not my thing but I want to do something different anyway and I like I like I like it it's a part of learning it's a part of growing and a part of being open so you're not just stuck in one way or the other so right now I do it both ways yeah but you're right you're right I love beach in Hawaii you see you know the songwriter perspective different than the audience perspective and the meaning of the song is different to the writer than it is to the singer than it is to the audience I find that like I find like some of the songs it's me alone who knows what it really is or what it's about or what it should mean what is the what is beach in Hawaii about it's it's some it's kind of like a morning you know yeah I wish you were here with me there's some longing in it for sure that I definitely like the choice of minor a minor chorus like this is a sad song about being alone in a beautiful place yeah because I'm like in that song I was like I'm on a rocky cliff metaphorically that mean I mean I'm like on a rocky cliff you know but I wish you were here with me on this rocky cliff because I'm really on a rocky cliff so yeah it wasn't intentional but I hear you still yeah and it's true I remember minor I think I probably get that from my father though like the way he loves the music there's a lot of minors I feel like natural mystic minor I think that's where it come from because the whalers really inspire me they're my first inspiration it's Bob Marley and the whalers and I'm not just talking about my father I'm talking about the musicians who were like for their genre and for their time revolutionary there was no other musician like that within the reggae genre in that period of time these guys were not those reggae guys they were jazz guys they were blues guys them know the knowledge what them have musically go far past what reggae supposed to be and that's what make my father music kinda have its own thing too. the musician them was not just normal musicians they were like experimental and like ahead of them time musically speaking you know it's fascinating growing up listening to all this music and like you were saying that these are people but to me that's just it's the music you forget that these are humans is you know you were just saying how you're now discovering that you're a certain kind of songwriter artist yeah like yeah like i'm gonna try to figure out myself you know if you were to say you know when you looked at that the thinking about this this point of view of imagining you at this funeral which you were at but it's almost like this whole other human going and you know you're just saying that you're a certain kind of songwriter artist looking at you throughout your career at what point now that you have your wisdom and your age do you start would you go back and say hey you're there do you think there's a point like is there a point where you go back to younger ziggy you know what hey man you know what there's a point you this this album you you know you won grammys bro right like you've won like you've won a lot you've done a lot it's not like you're just releasing your first album and you're just now saying you're discovering yourself right right right when do you go back in time and say to young ziggy like hey man you are your own man now i don't know i mean i think i would go back to like that conscious party album which was like the first breakthrough album and be like because i was living in jamaica and not not around where the album was like doing whatever it was doing and you know exposing us and i did tours here but i always go back to jamaica jamaica kind of insulate us from from the music industry in of america the world um because you're not thinking about it when you're there um yeah i think that was the point i would have i would have been more oh i would what was it like i wish i wasn't more aware of the success I wasn't aware of success that's the point I wasn't aware of success because I wasn't living in that world I'm not in that world I come in that world but then I leave that world I don't live in that world so my life is not my life as a musician it's just a life as a person and I'm not living I'm not aware of the success I'm not aware of the success and even when the first Grammy come I was like whatever what Grammy I don't hear I don't want to go to those Grammys I don't even know what that is and so I think maybe if I was more aware of that how did you not know those I mean you know when Tomorrow People comes out it's like it's a top 40 song and if you look at the other songs that are top 40 at that time it's like pop pop pop pop pop rock rock pop rock maybe some rap maybe but it's like then there's you on this top 40 I understand the removal from the business but that's a massive business achievement I'm going to tell you a true story I'm going to tell you a true story Tomorrow People I was in Jamaica you know there's a band called Third World and there's this guitarist named Cat I was at some kind of thing and he was the one who told me yo this song and I was like eh I don't know what you're talking about bro he was the one who told me about what the song was doing I never had no idea and I'm not as I said it wasn't a part of my psyche it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't a part of the thing it wasn't a part of my life it was just happening somewhere else it wasn't a part of my life you know what I'm saying I mean I come on tour and whatever but it wasn't a part of my life do you think some of that's from growing up and growing up going and seeing big shows and tours and all that stuff that maybe it just was so secondary that was just part of it maybe yeah maybe it was a part of it like going to shows with my father or whatever yeah it wasn't a big deal it's not a big deal so I guess this wasn't a big deal either this is a total left turn but when you're a health conscious person but you how does somebody tour and be in a studio and stay healthy discipline you have to have discipline I mean I grew up as an athlete so all my life I've been an athlete went from school soccer what's your sport soccer high school you know from elementary school my father we are the family is active people I grew up seeing activity my mother my father so we grew up with that lifestyle you know and then for me I just have a discipline not saying that I'm perfect because I take weeks off sometimes then I feel like shit they're like no no bro stop I need to get I need to work out and stop eating cinnamon buns and one of you but I take breaks but I know myself and I'm able to course correct when I have to I think that's just what it is it's not being like so extreme but being able to know when you need for course correct and I think that's what and I just it's just a part of my life if it's a part of your life just like music is a part of my life just like having breakfast it's just life it's a part of my life it's not something that I do like oh like you know just I have to do this it's a part of my life you know so that's that's how it is for me you know tell me you know going back a step the the the melody makers siblings when siblings are in a band and they tour and they you know they write some songs together they do different things on the road everyone has sort of their their own baggage and yet you guys have the same you know some of the same goals I guess in this case you know you guys are coming off of this is the first music you guys have you guys are releasing together and independently is this a was it easy to do as a family was it easier to do this as a family or is it harder to do as a family no well we did release music in Jamaica way before in America we've been singing in Jamaica as kids going to like you know with other kids who are in the industry at that time singing at like skate rinks and you know there's a little thing we were doing at Jamaica you know the skate rinks the cultural events so we've been doing it for a while but I think the most important thing in our house and me and my brother Steven you know we always play we always used to create music in the house create like plays you know imagination because in those days you never have no you can't scroll you have to use the imagination so imagination was always operating and so as a family I think we're always in the house before we even did it outside of the house we used to do it in the house and yeah that's just how it went you know we used we walked to school together we yeah because we used to have a walk to school and we used to do it as a group you know the metal makers used to have to walk to school together through the field up through the hills and walk come back home and so I think we all lived the experience together it was it's just natural it was just natural and again it's not perfect but it was natural you know do you guys all get along now? yeah yeah I mean we have ups and downs like every family yeah but yeah we get along there's a mutual respect and love that's how we grow like there's a point you don't cross you don't you don't cross a point but there you can you can go up to a point but there's a point you don't cross the history of your family and the music industry is really interesting too and a lot of people don't know like the history of like Island Records and and how entrepreneurial everyone is true you know how much of the music industry for somebody who writes from a often from a spiritual inspired place yeah how do you write music and still be an entrepreneur in the music business? well you have you create your own space man be true to who you are you know create your own you have to have your own space you can't try fitting somebody's space you have to create your own space as an entrepreneur you know the music thing and you have to be authentic to who you are if you start trying for you know follow the trends or you know try and you know do things that's not in your lane it doesn't feel natural to the people and it just you know it's just it dilutes who you are when you start trying to do that so I am very like successful in being who I am that is my success I am who I am yeah and I'm not trying to be nobody else or trying to compete with anybody because my lane is my lane i'm gonna me alone living at that lane nobody else are living at the lane my lane is me like my music my you hear my music it's me it's not nobody else's music you know it's me no it's my music and i'm going to understand that also throughout the year listening oh i've got my own music that is like this is my as i said before like my style it's me it's unique to me because nobody else can recreate that yeah me that you know me i say so that made me feel very confident and comfortable and you know in terms of the music which the industry changed so much now that i'm not even there's no album sales there's no i'm not looking at those i'm not i'm not looking at numbers anymore like that was there a time where you did not me but there was a time where it was important it's not so important anymore like how much album seller or whatever who said whatever if it's and it's not even if it's on the charts and it doesn't matter anymore so what what does matter for my life going out live and seeing people yeah i'm playing in front of people and seeing the people react to the music you know even new music this this tour was a very i did a summer tour with this bright side and it's just wonderful to see how the new music feel and interact with the people so that's what's important now is like live being out there in front of people seeing audiences when you first started touring and you're in you know in you're in your 20s but in in in the 80s people came to concerts and they just were immersed in the music yeah and now they're almost third party there because they've got their phones up yo man i remember this one show this guy just annoyed me bro he was just right in front like this the whole show the whole show like it's annoying to me like it but i'm not a mean person so you know like i'm not a mean person i'm not a mean person i'm not a music i said yo man it's annoying it's annoying when it when it when you can't just do a song and just you have to do the whole show what are you doing there then that's what you know but yeah no it's different but you know we we try to just keep doing we try to do our job over the people that's my thing like i know what my job is and i know what i'm giving and I'm giving it for the reasons of humanity then. Because the music affects humanity. Music is powerful. And that's the reason why we're giving it, why we're inspired to say what we say and do what we do. That purpose behind it is another thing that gives me great comfort, pleasure, confidence. Because I know that what I'm doing is meaningful to humanity. The message, the music is not just for my pleasure, not just for my monetary gain. It is not just for entertainment. It has deeper meaning to what you're doing. And it is important. And I have to remind myself of that sometimes, you know, to make sure I'm still on track. And make sure I'm still happy, you know. What do you tell somebody who's, you know, when a next generation of Marlies comes up and is like, I'm going to pursue music in this era, how do you give, how does somebody succeed in 2027 who is starting from scratch? Let me tell you how I teach my kids, man. Go to school, right? Get your education. Make sure, make sure, this is not music. You have so much Marlies. There's a lot of Marlies in music now. I mean, there's a lot of Marlies in music. Like, we have to have somebody. We need some doctors, maybe. Some scientists. That's what I tell them. Yo, we need some other, we need some other stuff in the Marlies. Everybody can't have music. Maybe we need a mechanic or a pilot or something. Yeah, that's really funny. That's really funny. That's a real truth. Y'all can't be musicians. Come on. Get to school. Do some work. Get a job. That's so funny. It's a lot. That's a tough. Somebody get a job. Anybody. Anybody want a job? Yeah, man. It's a real, that's a real word. But sometimes, you know, you have to get real. So, yo, come on, man. You guys got to find something. It's not music alone. It's a lot of us in that, you know. There's a lot of brand crossovers. So, it's such a, if you can make it work, it's just so fun. It's so hard to tell people that, that it's, like. No, but what I tell, what I tell, what I tell people is that, listen, people, right? What I tell people is that you can do both. Like, you can do music, but you can also have a job to support your paying your bills or doing, you know, it's not, you can have a job too. It inspires music. You don't have to just stuck in, like, in a studio and making music from, like, out of thin air. You need experiences. You need life. You need life experiences to make music. You can't just chat GPT or whatever it is. You understand me? You need to have experiences in life. How you get experiences in life? By getting out there in the world. Doing things that are uncomfortable. Come out of your comfort zone. You know, that you need. So, a part of that is living life. Creating music is living life. So, you know, that's what we tell people sometimes. You've had some amazing features and things that, you know, you've worked with Jack Johnson, who's. Super nice guy, legend, Carlos Santana, like, a god, you know, Maluma, all these. Who are some people that you should collaborate with still? Because I like Kendrick Lamar. I like Kendrick Lamar music. That's what I'm going to say, sir. Not because he's successful, but because I literally like his vibes. You know what I'm going to say? So, I like that. Who else? I like that answer. That'd be a sick record. Yeah. I can't make it happen. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it would be, but. You know, could I make something nice? Yeah. Is there, in all the music you've released, is there a song that you were surprised by its success? I mean. I don't. I don't really know. I don't know the answer for that one. You know, now that you've won Grammy Awards and you've had, you know, this legendary discography of albums, now do you appreciate it differently when you're saying how, well, you know, at the time you didn't understand when, you know, those first accolades were coming in and the first successes that you didn't even know that as other people say, hey, check this out, this is crazy. And you're like, oh, I wasn't paying attention. Right. Would you pay attention now? I don't think so. Because it's not about that. And maybe that's why it was never about that. Maybe that's why. I mean, I was naive. I was naive. I wasn't. And maybe that's good for me, that I wasn't paying attention. Maybe that's why I am the way I am. Or why. Because imagine if it was so important. What happens when it doesn't happen? Then what would I be saying to myself? What. If I had to pay. If I was paying attention to it right now, I'd be like, oh, shit. How much albums did I sell? Is it on the charts? Is it. Like, what would I be doing? Like, so I think, no, I wouldn't. Because it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter. And it. Listen, I'm an independent artist. And I've been blessed, right? I've been blessed. My father has been blessed. My father blessed me. I blessed myself. So I'm not. I'm not in a position where, at this point in my life, where I need to do things that I don't need, that I don't feel within myself to do or, you know, for. And you know what? The truth is, we were always like this. Whether we had it or not, we were always like this. That's just who we are. That's just the truth. I'm going to try to think about it a little more, but the truth is, this is who we are. And there's people like this all over the world that, like. Them live with less and them couldn't care less. Because we are right. You know, when we never have enough, we're still good. We're still happy. We weren't pining for something else that somebody else had. Or looking at. Or being envious of other people. We were happy with what we had. When we never. When the fridge was empty, I was happy. When we had no running water, I was happy. I wasn't sad. Because we never knew anything. We never expect anything. You know? We just live within our experience and play outside and whatever, you know? So. Yeah, I think, you know, somebody said this to me and it, like, was a switch for me. That success is managing expectations. And if your expectations aren't. If it's not on your radar, then it doesn't matter. Yeah. It's irrelevant. Yeah. Whether it goes number one or not is totally irrelevant if you don't care. Yeah. You know? So, those things. You know? Obviously, they're changing. Yeah, but and then, I must say, like. know I have a purpose and that's I think that's what I pay attention to my pro like having a I feel like that is my um my my antidote is like knowing that I have a purpose solves all my other egotistical problems of is it on the chart how much did I sell am I on YouTube on my Instagram how much followers I have like knowing my purpose kind of make all that stuff because it's bigger than that and like I know I know my value my value isn't dictated by those things you know what I mean so yeah I think I think that is where I am at like I know my value you know and it have nothing to do with charts or followers or nothing because at the end of the day what we leave for humanity what we leave behind for our children and humanity and how we were as human beings is what is important at least to me you know yeah at least to me yeah well listen thank you for doing this podcast that's the probably the best way to to end a conversation like this but you know I I'm a fan of what you've done and even just the idea of being able to release so much music that you care about enough to tour so much is is so it that is that is six that's the success in a in a career it's like this it's I like I love what you the way that we've talked about how how much it doesn't matter about any of the other stuff if your purpose is so clear right and your purpose has been clear yeah from you know any of the songs that that we know you from our it's like it's that positivity it's that's why we're that's why we're tuning up to 432 I mean it's real it's real though man like that's a choice you can you make choices and like this is as you know our our mantra with the podcast from the beginning is there you know whatever there are millions of of singers and there are thousands of artists and the reality is like to be to define yourself as an artist yeah is to do art yeah make choices yeah yeah yeah to do something that some people might not like to do things some people might not understand somebody was saying this about like AI can't be risky yeah and no one cares about the risk that AI takes because you can't do anything right right but a human can go and record an album uptuned to 432 frequency yeah up frequency can can can choose to do that and that is a that is a risk worth taking yeah and though and it's it's just part of a whole career of taking risks and so you know I applaud you man thank you for doing this podcast thank you thank you man myself like you know in follow-up to your thing let me just say one more thing so you know like for me it's weird because it's like it's always new it's always new like everything is always new to me it's never old like everything is like the first time like I've that thing in me where it's always new like I never like oh I'm doing this again oh I'm doing an album I'm writing a song no it's always like it's always fresh you know so that's I like that I like that about um myself too that I don't know what that is with me but I'm always like it's always like exciting and new still a kid yeah still a kid bro yeah I'm telling you yeah