Ep. 261: Travis Barker | Survival and Building a Legendary Career out of the Ashes

Welcome to And The Writer Is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's icon hasn't only produced the soundtrack of a generation. He's produced the lifestyle of a generation. He took punk out of the garage and then put it on your radio and then in a video and then on your body all while maintaining his legendary authenticity. His plethora of side projects across every genre imaginable make his discography historically one of a kind. Feature Hall of Famer. Look, some drummers keep time. This one changed it for all time, but for all his accolades. The most impressive one is that he's a great father. And The Writer Is. My friend Travis Barker. Awesome. That was quite the introduction. I should talk to you. That was so good. I saw your documentary. It's awesome. Thank you. I think it's awesome because one of the purposes of this podcast has been to show that all musicians are struggling musicians and that there's, you can be a very successful musician, but you are still going through the hardships of life and having to use music as your therapy, as your process in getting through day to day. And I think that documentary shows the complexities of your career and having been as artistic as you've been. It's amazing. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think everyone's going through something, right? But we're so fortunate to have music. And music has been like what saves me every time. So the first thing you see on it was that you started shooting in 2017 and then it comes out in 2026. It feels like a pretty arbitrary decade. Why did you start it in 2017? It was a conversation after my memoir came out. The idea of a documentary was like presented to me. And at the time inside of our management company, which was deck star, which was like a management company, DJ AM had started. So one of the artists that they managed with Steve Iokey and they had just done a documentary for Steve and their, the ideas just started kind of like flowing and then just said like fuck it. Okay, I'm going to start filming immediately. We started filming, but there was kind of no ending. There was no like, there was no light at the end of the tunnel because at the time in 2017, after we filmed me on a boat traveling from, you know, transit land at crossings from New York to London, because I didn't fly. And I would, you know, be in a bus and a boat for like 30 days in order to get to Europe to tour. It just basically kind of long story short, told a story of someone who had a traumatic loss time and time again in his life and ends up, you know, becoming sober, doesn't fly. Great dad, you know, really loves being a musician, but there was no, there was no ending. And I remember the producers of the documentary came to me and they said, do you think you could just like walk on a plane? And that's the ending of our story? Or like, we have you at the airport and you're staring at a plane, like, you're gonna fly. And at the time, I couldn't even think about it. It was, it was so hard. I literally physically couldn't walk near a plane. I, I stayed clear of airports at the time. That was just so much, there was so much that I related to flying from, you know, that I wouldn't, I just couldn't have any part in it. So there was no ending to my documentary. And then part of me was like, fuck you for even trying to pitch that to me for my ending. And then part of me was really upset at myself that I, like, I don't fly. And it has such power over me. And it has so much power over my family and my kids and none of us fly. And then I just, I just saw it as a challenge that I had to like run to that I had to be like, I'm gonna fly. And I didn't really share it with anyone, but I had locked in in my head. I'm gonna figure this out because like, I think the same kid when I was growing up that was like straight edge for a number of years that like didn't want to drink, didn't want to smoke, didn't want to, you know, that same part of me was like flying, not flying is not going to happen. And I don't think that's like what, what, you know, I also had like survivors killed from people that, you know, that were really close to me, like, brothers in my accident. I'm like, they wouldn't want me to sit here and not fly again. They would write they would they would want me to to knuckle up and be like, no, I'm flying again, figure it out. So once I went on that journey, which happened organically, I think just through through life, like a lot of help from my wife at the time. It just yeah, just change things. It's interesting how there's this thought that, you know, and just speaking of the documentary itself that when people meet somebody, they remember the day they meet them and they judge people by the day they meet them. And when people watch a movie or a story, they judge it by its ending. And it's a weird thing when you have a documentary that's about somebody where the beginning really matters. And then the ending really matters. You don't really think of a documentary where the ending is going to be, you know, that that's a necessary part of making a documentary. But you are storytelling. And how much of having seen the documentary and seeing how it mattered to get your show your your family that you can get on the plane to show that they can get on the plane and your relationship with your wife and and her pushing in positively pushing you, leading you to going on flights again. How much of the documentary weighed in on your decision-making of going on an airplane? Did it was, did you think of it? Was it that present in your mind? The doc was dead to me. Like 2017, I said, doc can come out one of dead one day, but it's dead to me. I'm just good. And I didn't really share why. But you know, when you see those videos where they say, live your life like it's a movie, like, like, basically, you know what I mean? Think about it like that. And, um, and you're the main character. And I started thinking about mine. I'm like, fly. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's the that's your that's your your life, like your life story of this movie. I got to like, I got to break down any walls that are like restricting me. And, um, yeah, it just happened. And then so much change, you know, think through, I never planned on being in a relationship again. I was really content with being at the studio 20 hours a day, sleeping four to five hours a day going back to the studio, spending time with my kids being a great father. I was cool on everything. And then, uh, fell in love with like someone I had been friends with forever. And man, things changed. I I ended up I don't know through the power of love or whatever it was. I started being like, yeah, I will, I will fly, um, ended up getting married again, ended up having, uh, you know, my son Rocky so much changed my kids fly. So that's when it was like, yo, you're old ending to my documentary was like me staring off. And maybe there's a plane inside of me walking towards it. Like I did the unthinkable, which I really, it was the unthinkable. I was like, I was also really content, which just never flying again at the time. So it I would have probably never finished the documentary, to be honest. Uh, it just wasn't wasn't my documentary anyways to finish. But I just, I think around 2017, I said, I'm not taking I'm just like, I don't want to participate anymore. I'm cool. From the perspective of music, it couldn't have lined up better as far as creating a new chapter for the documentary to cover. And it ends up being the last sort of 15 minutes of your long story career. Yeah. But the last six years, there's like not a record that you're not a part of, you know, or an album that you're not, you know, playing on when that documentary started, you hadn't even gotten into it. You'd been producing a lot of hip-hop and some others. But there's a whole genre that became the, you know, feels like the new era of you as a as a musician. Yeah. Explain how it got from the person who started that documentary in 2017, to the person you are now, that discography is wild and so diverse, all the production, all that stuff. Do you enjoy producing as much as you enjoy performing? I do. I love producing. I love performing. It's different, right? I think in the beginning, when I first started producing, it happened because Bumbi from UGK, it said, yeah, I need a beat from Trab, he had told Skinhead Rob. And at the time, I was like, I don't make beats, you know what I mean? Like, I love hip-hop, and I've played on a bunch of albums. I've played with like TI at the BET Awards. I played with the game here. I played with Drake and Wayne at the Grammys, but like, I don't make beats. And then bun was like, now you do. Give me a beat, I need it in two days, you know? So I did it. And to me, that was like, I guess that was like, it was exciting to me. And I was doing a bunch of stuff with live drums 'cause I wasn't really experienced with programming or anything like that. So I guess I approached it differently. And then I also think anything that was in my genre of punk rock or pop punk or hardcore, it felt like it was too on the nose for me. And it wasn't like, maybe at the time it wasn't that interesting to me. It wasn't until like, Peep and XXXTentacion and all these artists started getting, you know, like popular and I started working with them that it was really interesting to me because these artists were influenced by something I'd done in a genre that I've been a part of for years, but they had their own take on it. And it was really cool. And that really sparked something for me. - Who connected those dots? It's one thing when you're, you know, you're a, you've had this insane career but these kind of little people, all those guys that we're starting to, we're starting connecting dots. It seems so obvious to be like, oh yeah Travis Barker's the guy you should go to to produce it, but that's not obvious. And in 2017, 18, 19, you know, let alone going to COVID and the MGK's and all the, you know, stuff after that. Who starts connecting the dots? Who's leading the charge and hey, everyone should be calling this guy 'cause he's more than being a legendary drummer. - I have no idea. I just started getting messages from them. Like I got a message from Peep one day. I got a message from XXXTentacion and then just started like trading back ideas and yeah. I don't know the relationships started there. I think at the time I was always, I was always a little bit confused. I grew up on B.C. Boy's public enemy, the far side tribe called Quest, but I also grew up on minor threat, bad brains, bad religion, the descendants, also King Diamond Slayer, Solperture. I was into everything, Johnny Cash, Buck Owens. So music was just music to me. And at the time I think there was a lot of, people would try to kind of put you in a box. And yeah, I grew up like playing to balls, Paul's boutique, influence me and inspired me as much as playing to like King Diamond records. I was learning, I was just learning something from everything, you know? And I couldn't, even as a kid, I grew up skateboarding and listening to music and watching skate videos. I would get sick of a certain genre if I just listened to it over and over again. So I think skate videos raised me and taught me kind of like what was cool or I figured out like what I liked. - Yeah, when you mentioned buddy rich in the dock and if you've never seen buddy play just insane and they're so cool. - Yeah, the guy can't sit down 'cause he's just, he's like so excited when he's playing drums and he's like, he's gonna break everything and he's like, anybody who hasn't seen buddy rich videos, like you gotta see it. - Go down the tunnel of watching everything. He's the greatest drummer ever, you know? - Who else is on your, who's on your mount rush more of drummers? - It's hard for me to pick. If I had to pick one, it's buddy, 'cause he was fun to watch, he was technical, he had chops, everything, you know? He was the buddy rich band, you know? But then like drummers like Dennis Chambers were really great, Vinnie was great. I loved Tommy Lee, like Tommy Lee was like someone who I was different genre, different age for me but someone that I could tell loved playing drums. And it just was like, made it fun and you paid attention to the drummer. So at a young age, I felt like Tommy was really even great. Stuart Copeland from the police was really influential. For me, my mom was a huge police fan. Elvin Jones, there's so many. I just, you know, once you discover one, you discover three more. I loved Mickey D from King Diamond and Motorhead. I loved Rob Carson who was just a marching drummer. So there was so much. - Yeah, a lot of the drummers you mentioned are really musical in a sense that they play drums that you want to sing along to. I'm not a very good drummer, I'm not good. But there are certain drummers that I still know the parts to like some of these songs. And it's what you've done so well is those, the drums are a hook also. It's not, it's not keeping time. It's like, it's part writing. - Yeah, that's a different philosophy. Who starts telling you, okay, as a drummer, you know, you have a responsibility to keep time, but also like, I don't know, that drum fill here is the hookiest part of the song. That beat there is the thing that everyone's gonna play along to in their car as much as a guitar part, as much as like any other vocal hook. - Who teaches you the composition aspect of playing drums? - No one, it's just developed, yeah. When I was young, I was like beating on pots and pans at like four years old, got an animal drum kit. My parents got a drum teacher, a gentleman by the name of Ed Will, the teacher man, I like read music. And then from there, he was only a jazz teacher. So I learned how to read charts, and then anything rock or any rap music, he would just say, I'm not teaching you any of that. That's not like music. So, it's so old fashioned. Yes, very old fashioned. So I taught myself everything by just listening to it. And playing air drums. I think I figured out at a young age like, well first, I remember very, very clear memory of being in my first band when I was like 13, it wasn't my band, but I went and recorded with them. And I didn't really understand the concept, where to put drum fills. So I would just hit them with the drum fill every four bars. And they were like, can you just like set up the chorus or set up getting out of the chorus back into the verse? And then it clicked. I'm like, oh, it's like jazz. When I set up and I see on the chart, it's like, oh, I need to set up the end of two. So once I got that concept down, it was a matter of hearing something, which I still do to this day, seeing what I sing in my head as far as my drum part. And what naturally comes out when I play it. And it's like a combination of those two things. It's not, I know how to do this cool 30 second note thing when it comes time to do a fill. And I'm gonna try to throw this in a song. It's never that. It's more of like what I sing to myself for. And sometimes it can be non-traditional. Maybe it's like a Latin groove over, you know, that's, I feel like that was sometimes like the magic of blink is guitars would be doing something super simple, bass would be doing something really simple. And I was just playing a Latin inspired groove over it, which Tom and Mark would say, do that crazy shit that you do, whatever. And that's what I would do, you know? - Yeah, that's so sad, is it true that you learned the entire blink 182 set in an hour? Yeah. - Hey guys, if you ever wanted to get further in the world of "Am the Writer" is, if you ever want to sit in that seat across from me, well guess what? You can now join the conversation. That's right, because we just launched our Patreon. You'll get access to our monthly Zoom hangs where we'll listen to demos, give feedback, you can hang with us directly, and we can hang with you too. Look, occasionally we'll bring on some guests that will chat with our community, and maybe most importantly to me, you are going to have access to our 200 archived audio episodes. That's episodes with Charlie Xiegson, Sabrina Carpenter, Lynn Manuel Miranda, and Shania Twain and Babyface so much, so many great interviews that you can get, amazing insight and knowledge from. So come and check it out in the description below. There's a link for you to join us on Patreon. It was, we were on tour, so I did have a little cheat sheet because it's like, if we were on tour together, and I came on and watched you guys set, I would know a little bit, you know? I'd be like, oh yeah, yeah, this is, this is during the Aquabats here on tour with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was just a young, very, just inspired, eager kid that would, I'd watch every band that I was on tour with. I'd watch every drummer, and when I wasn't watching them, I had a practice pad, and I was in our dressing room, or in our van, and I was practicing. So when that happened, I'm like, yeah, just let me, Get in a room with you to see like what you're right hands doing when you're picking or whatever and just hear the guitars and I learned all the songs in like an hour That's a wild stat When you see studio drummers in LA in that era The studio drummers know how to do that, but the guy who's on the road doesn't always know how to do that We're from 13 when that first time you were in a studio till blink in 1999 or when was that that show that was probably earlier, right when was that those 90s? Yeah, it was like 99, 98. Yeah, so like during during that that era from from being 13 all the way to there Did you ever you know, I know your touring story because you talk about it in the doc and you know, I know a lot of the bands you've been in but Did you spend time in the studio? Do we're you learning to produce during any of that time? never no, I didn't I was only in that studio that one time when I was like 13 and From then on when I was in a band called feeble, we Paid for studio time in Costa Mesa, but studio was not something I was familiar with at all Did you like it at that time? I love I mean, I loved being in the studio But it was we I didn't come from money. I didn't ever I had never had any money my band Ironically they they were all from where I was from Fontana We were all trash man in Laguna Beach that moved from Fontana so Paying for studio time was like a big deal Yeah, you know, so we'd go in record and we'd be out and we'd get like four or five songs done in a few hours Did you manufacture that was it tapes at the time? Or was it CDs? Yeah, it was tape and were you selling those? Only at their versions of those that exist only at this this place called sound spectrum in in Laguna Beach where we were from We never really got Further than that and we would just play like local like punk clubs Yeah I was I was like more and also songs were written different then right not to say like people don't Write like this anymore, but songs were written in a rehearsal studio or in some kind of Space where we'd all play together and like he would know his part I would know my part. We'd know where the verse comes what the pre-chorus is what the chorus is what the bridge is How long it goes whereas now I feel like a lot of people get in the studio and they kind of figure out a song, you know So it was you guys had you had to rehearse at the time, too Like you'd play a song a thousand times before you'd be in a studio. It wasn't and now you you record it the day you write it and Yeah, then you go to it and then you should probably record it, but yes studio then was almost like how it performances We know the song just have a great performance in the studio the recordings finished, but when did that switch for you? Let me not till Not until the untitled album for blink. Yeah, why do you say that album specifically? Well, because we we didn't so in a mother state take up your pants and jacket all those Songs were written in a rehearsal space and all of the creative stuff was happening there Even in feeble it was like How about this for a bridge? Here's an idea for a bridge. Here's an idea To not play you know this idea just like the last one and let's like try this rhythm Let's cut that part in half and then the next time it happens. Let's have it go its full length You know all those all those decisions were made in a rehearsal room and then go record Whereas untitled album for blink with with feeling this and I miss you and everything We rented out a house and set up a studio and There was it wasn't we got to record the whole album in a day It was we're gonna be here for a year So that has it changed the process for you changes it entirely um Entirely and that album Was right after transplants the first transplants album which we did in Tim's basement and That album was a lot of Tim going down there and putting on a click and just being like play Some crazy drama based stuff and then going to a punk rock beat just do whatever you want So we put on 100 bpm 120 bpm and I would just go crazy for 20 minutes And then we'd figure out little pieces where like oh this is the verse. This is This is a chorus. This is the breakdown. This is the outro, you know So I just came off that where we're playing with all sorts of beats and we do that at well a lot of different tempos So when I jumped in for a title, I was like jerry. Let's just like let me go in there and play beats I'm so into just playing beats like let's put the drum kit in the biggest room in the house and get big boomy bottom, you know Like vibes and that was like feeling this and then The crazy cowbell pattern that's like a hip-hop pattern is like the chorus. It was all it was just all our beats Yeah, I like it you know when I think of uh when in the in the dog when Tom talks about saying like well They used to just ride with the acoustic guitars and or he and Mark will drive with the acoustic guitars in room They come and play it for you and then you play something around it And then it's something where you guys are writing it in the room where you guys are Uh interactive in the actual rehearsal room when you're when you guys are writing together or in some of these other bands like transplants. So you are you Do you partake in the lyric writing? Yeah, like so Yeah, I think like as early as like I miss you um Like some of the verse lyrics are me, you know and well of Halloween on Christmas Um, that's me um live like Jack and Sally, you know that that was me um And that's where I'm trying to start is a drummer where do you where are you writing these on it? Is this you just Is this you writing in the room or do you have are you do you write poetry? Uh No, I was just on the fly just being in a room and he's like did I'm stuck? What do I say? I'm like, oh, how about this? Well, tell us about the day route. I miss you Mmm, we were once again an experimental process because usually everything's written so everything's entirely even different for us might even be Come well 100% completely unfamiliar and new just new a new way of approaching things Uh, and just like how feeling this was started with a bunch of beats We were we were saying like like love cats from the cures so cool and We wish we had a song like that, you know or those tempos And then it kind of started it kind of started with we're just listening to the cure Listening to different different music a lot in the studio that we liked a lot and Mark was Messing around I think with some like upright bass or some bass lines and then I Had a brush pattern that I liked and I convinced everyone to just let me loop it just let it loop and it doesn't have a bunch of parts and it would do something else for the song um Like leaving like that against like me going and playing a bunch of drum parts and drum fills and crash cymbals and it just becomes really party Whereas I thought I loop it almost becomes like a dance song that's like hypnotic And then yeah, just started writing like It takes sort of a uh, you have to put your ego away to be a drummer who is a songwriter You know because then you're then you're focused on telling a different sort of story then I think a lot of drummers At a lot of instrumentals in general struggle with the idea that the the key is the song versus Just playing music and you have all these different side projects that can where you can do different kinds of Musicianship But specifically blink where it's so song driven Do you find that you Play differently or write differently for each project you're in or are you Travis, you know, the same you go in the same sort of Motive every time, you know, do you adjust how you write For each project? Yeah, for for whatever artist I'm working with or whatever room I'm in there's some rooms where I'm in and they're like Really like we want Travis Barker to play drums on this and I'm like I don't think the song calls for it, but if you want me to Play more over play I will but I think what's there is really cool and it's just like the song sounds really good like this So a lot of the times I feel like I find myself being a little reserved and the little like restraining a little bit um Until they told me tell me to open the valve and then I'll go crazy if they want me to um But no, yeah, I always just try to be whatever it depends what what hats I'm wearing to in the studio if I'm just producing Uh, I wear a different hat if I'm playing drums I wear a different hat but I also you know I just did the alkaline tree album so I just want to be whatever dream drummer they want on the album if they want me to channel this on this song and channel this on this song I'm completely down and then sometimes they're like you know we want we want that Travis Barker ship whatever whatever whatever I'll be like okay I didn't you know but yeah I just try to try to do what the song calls for and what I think makes the song the best version of that song you seem to still practice a lot I do yeah how does the one of the best drummers in the world practice I mean practice is never ending well thank you to that's a nice compliment but it like it never stops like the minute you stop practicing you're not you're suddenly not one of the best drummers in the world their best guitar players in the world their best bass players in the world like it's just the learning process is never ending so it could be whether it's using your left hand more or getting more comfortable just like you know improvising there's so many things that what do you feel like you need to work on NNPA is our lead sponsor yet again what is the National Music Publishers Association what do publishers have to do with songwriters anyway well unlike artists who can be unsigned artists there is no such thing as an unsigned writer you can be a self-published a co-published or a publisher writer publishers only make money if songwriters make money so NNPA goes and fights for you they go to Congress they go and support the community they fight DSPs to get you paid more that's what they do they fight for you and they fight for this podcast so thank you for fighting for songwriters NNPA thank you for fighting for us too let me tell you about splices sounds plug-in it brings millions of royalty free high quality samples right into your jaw making it easier to search preview and drag and drop sounds all over within your project in any jaw FL studio logic pro you know how it works I've been testing out a new tool called variations that let's producers create new versions of any splice sample that adjusts structure key and bpm while preserving the sounds core characteristics that's because every sample in 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kid in school they wouldn't like switch the drum kit up for me so I learned how to play right handed but I think I'm always in my head I know I'm left handed so I'm always trying to incorporate more in my left hand or just yeah marching yeah also it just never ends like marching in rudiments and cool stuff like that just like you you can never you can just never be too good I made up those rules a long time ago they were in I think it's in my book where I say like you can never being too good a shape like you never stop learning like there's never a reason to stop practicing I should never be bored like and I I don't know I've always lived by that I understand that your hands hurt often because you play really hard but what parts of your body feel good at this point don't your doesn't your back hurt doesn't your like every drummer I know is in massive pain just like dancers like their hips are fucked and you know you mean like drummers everybody's wrists are and shoulders and elbows and you know are you in good shape right now yeah I mean my my my wrist crack and do weird stuff my back only hurts because it was broken in in four or five places in my in my accident and I never knew about it and I was in a burn center just posted up to where they couldn't really tend to my back but they said I healed pretty good considering because I was just laying there so I don't really think about what hurts I just keep going just put my head down and keep going like and none of it's that terrible and I think most of the stuff I feel on a daily basis is I bring on to myself like I like running I like doing like you know long distance runs um I don't know I live working out every day after the accident you know you're in the hospital for a long time and music's your therapy playing's your therapy maybe more so than listening I you know what music did you listen to during your therapy during during your recovery that helped you get keep your mind connected to music I didn't listen to a bunch of music to be honest it was it was just trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel because when I was in the hospital it was first like we might have to amputate your foot um and I was just thinking how how am I gonna play drums you know or playing drums will be so much different if that happens um then my my right hand I couldn't feel any of it in the hospital but I didn't want to say anything because I knew they'd keep me in there longer so I didn't tell anyone and then I got out and like a couple weeks went by and I would I would go out on my in my backyard and just play a little bit on a practice pad and it started weighing on me because I knew I couldn't fill my hand so I I jump back in and I got my own a nerve released so I got probably about like 80 75% of my feeling back in my right hand or my left hand and then from there it was as soon as I could play again am and I were we're playing like a big New Year's Eve show I forget what it was for but I just remember we knew it was gonna be a big show and it was our first show back after the accident and like Prince was there and Dr. Dre and all these all these people were there it was like it was I knew it was going to be a really big like comeback show so I was just listening to whatever Adam and I were sending back to each other um to throw in our set for New Year's Eve I got to see you guys play a few times it was sort of this era of you know I feel like there was more money in LA for things like parties than there are now or just people were throwing there was just always events where there'd be you know uh cool projects like you and DJ and play and it was it's one of those things where of all the side projects that you were a part of that was something whereas oh shit you're allowed to do that like you're allowed to and I think that's those are those moments where you recognize what kind of artists you are in the career that you've had the seeing that as a aspiring artist at the time to be like oh shit that's cool like I remember that to say like you're allowed to be you can play drums with this kind of music and and do it live and it's all part of the thing yeah it's just like it's just a comment more than as a question but you know I don't the choices you make by being in different genres have such an effect on on the rest of the the your your fan base your you know the music industry when when you're making choices like oh yeah you can produce music like that or you can make music or play music whatever it is like that it's a fact it it means it means a lot you know so I'm just saying that was in such an incredible project to to witness thank you yeah I think all my other projects no matter even though transplants was so genre-bending and we do anything it was like drum and bass sometimes it was like hip-hop sometimes playing with am was every genre yeah which was so fun for me and um probably like just like fulfilled me the most because it was it was an hour of everything you know we could play anything together it was it was really fun and and challenging and I felt like I don't know just like push boundaries I was just in in Michigan this last week and I lost a good friend who is from Ann Arbor and I see that that like high school that he was at and I see like and I'm you know still close to his family and it's like I was just there and I have like there's certain things I do where I still have them like on my shoulder it like certain parts of my life where I feel like he'd be proud of this or would want to know this. What things in your head do you feel like you're still sharing with Adam? I mean, everything. We were, I think like we were super early on collecting vintage t-shirts, you know, 20 years ago we were collecting vintage t-shirts, it was, it was wild. And then, like sneakers, I think anything, you know, AM had his own, like, you know, Nike Dunk, like I have my own fans, I feel like anytime I listen to like Dilla, I think of him, just anything. Anytime I remember how like happily confused I am, as far as genres, and like listening to old school '90s hip-hop will always make me think of him, you know, because he would unapologetically mix Kelly Clarkson into like the hardest '90s rap shit and everyone would go crazy, you know? So yeah, I think like just always, he's like a constant reminder to lean into being different and you're authentic self, you know? Of all the side projects you've done, why have you not done a jazz combo? It's coming later, you know? I would love to, yeah, I would love to, but I feel, I feel like it's like when Blink's done and all, you know, all that stuff's done. When would Blink ever be done? I don't know, it's hard to say, our band is like really healthy right now, and I'm stoked for that, but I've also learned with our band, you just, you just never know. There was the part where Mark was talking about, you know, box car racer when he was like, it just was Blink, but not with me. And, you know, you, everyone does side projects and one of the cool parts of being a drummer is you kind of can just go and do the thing, you're just going, you can do the thing. But it, when you were in starting box car racer, did that, didn't that cross your mind that that would be difficult for your relationship with Mark? It's so weird that it didn't, you know, I think everything happened so fast. I feel, I don't, I'm not sure if it was that tour, but I know when Blink and Green Day toured together, Billy and I would play every day together. He just started, he would hear me playing every day, be like, what are you doing in here? And I'm like, I'm just, just practicing, just jamming, whatever. He's like, I'm going to bring a guitar in here and jam with you every day. And then it became like, Billy and Mike would both come in sometimes and we would jam. And I think it sparked something with Tom, whereas like, hey, why don't you play with me? And I'm like, dude, come in anytime, I would love, I'd play here every day, you know? And I think we started jamming and at the time I showed Tom, I'd been listening to a bunch of quicksand. I'd been listening to a bunch of pitchfork, like Fugazi and it was like, we should make some songs like this, like whatever, I love these bands. And then I think our thought process was, this is too heavy for Blink. So we have to put them somewhere else, whereas it could have just been the next Blink album as well, you know? And I bet Blink fans would have been stoked on it, you know? But I don't know. I don't know what we were thinking, honestly, because they had, now I look back at it, I'm thinking, yeah, I completely understand why Mark would feel left out or it just, yeah, it's Blink without Mark. It is, it is. Plus 44, I calculated and sort of like, okay, I did this, so now I have to do this. Kind of, but also it was around the time, I think it was the first time Tom quit and he was, I think he was doing something musically and Mark and I were just sort of like, hey, let's do something. You know, we, that's all we knew, too, that's all, that's all I've known since I was 19 or 20 is start a band record and tour. That's how I lived. Like that's how I, not even live that's how I survived. So that's all I knew. Yeah, the drummer life is different, because as a lead singer, you know, it's like you kind of want your band to be just endlessly loyal to you, but it's not disloyal by going and playing different music, and it's like, it's okay for me to write 10 different projects and then for them to not, you know, it's like you, and especially somebody who's as musical as you are, where it's just like, it's constantly coming out of you. Then you're like, yeah, you can't, Blink couldn't possibly release enough albums to keep up with the kinds of music songs you want to write and produce and create. It's not a knock on the other members of the band. It's just how complicated it is to, I mean, being a band just sucks, it's really hard. So it's like being, it's like a marriage, you know, not to say your marriage can't be great, but I, I'm not, I'm not a great, like person that idols either. I'm always doing something, if I don't have something to do, I'm starting something, you know? So like in between Blink albums, I'll write and produce three full-length albums with whoever, maybe even more than that. And it's, I love Blink, that's like always my priority, but in between, I have so much stuff to do. The project with, you didn't have a project with Billy, but you guys would rehearse together. Tell me about the music that you and Billy Joe were just playing in a rehearsal room. Yeah, we, I don't even know what it was. We would just, it was kind of like how I describe A.M. and I in my documentary where he would come in, turn on his turntables, I would play drums and we would just communicate. That's how like it was with, with Billy and I in the rehearsal room. Where are your favorite bands you've toured with that, that Blink got to play, go on long tours with? Let me think, full fighters when, when Taylor was in there, was really fun because I, when I was a trash man in Laguna, Taylor was, Taylor was born and raised in Laguna. So I met him from him coming to see Feeble play and we, we became really great friends. That was such an amazing cameo in the documentary that he saw you play in, in Feeble's nuts. Yeah, it was nuts. He would come and, I mean, no one knew who Taylor was then either. He was like, he was playing with a Lannis, but a Lannis was just starting to pop. So he would just come to every Feeble show and be like, dude, like, be so nice to me and compliment me and say like, I'd love to jam with you, whatever. It was so cool and it was funny because a year and a half, two years later, I'm on tour with Blink and he's on tour with food fighters and we're in Australia, smoking cigarettes on airplanes. You know what I mean? Or in the airport bathrooms, it was so, it was just so that I couldn't have had a better person to be on like that journey with, you know, that our bands were playing together in Australia. Yeah, and Dave, it grows another, another person whose side projects were so vastly different from each other. It's like, there's just a small, higher echelon, instrumentalist group of people that are like, oh, you can do music. You can play with Queen's and Stone Age. You can play with like, and Nirvana haven't been totally different and you can still hit hard and it's a vibe. It's good to hear from somebody who is always a singer and a band, you know, it's like, I always look at, you know, you're still focused on writing the song, doing the thing, but some of the stars in these big bands are the drummers and this look you were saying from watching Buddy Rich, who is the band. The marketing people behind bands are highly aware of who the fans are looking at. And if you look at the literal album covers of Blink from the beginning, all the way to where you're at now, you're positioning on the album actually physically is like, you're now a front and center in many ways, not to say, Mark and Tom are not major parts of this band. But where does the, how does that feel having entered the band from the perspective of I'm playing with the aquabats? They want me to join this band to now being sort of front and center for a lot of the marketing material. I mean, it took some getting used to in the beginning. When I was in the aquabats, I was in a, I was in a costume, which I didn't even know I was going to wear it. It was very deep. It was very deep. Dude, I love, like people can, I'll still to this day be someone they're like, aquabats drivers. And I'm like, yes, like I love divo. I love the specials. I love everything that the aquabats were about, you know, but the Blink thing happened so quick. It was like filling for three shows and then they're like, man, we really want you to be in our band, but they had a drummer and I said, well, you know, I wouldn't, I don't want to cause any problems almost almost like getting into a relationship with them, you know? I said, but if something happens, you, you guys, you know, aren't playing with your drummer anymore. I'd love to play with you guys. And then it happened. And then next thing you know, literally. a week or two later, we're taking band photos and, you know, and I'm obviously the quiet, I'm way more quiet than them, at least in interviews and stuff, I was kind of like, I was kind of learning too, you know, I'd never been in the spot like that, like that. So I was, I was definitely the quiet one and they would, I mean, anyone that knows Blink knows like the banter between those guys, it would feel really unnatural for me to jump into that banter, you know, even though that's like what me and all my skater friends, you know, used to talk shit to each other and say wild stuff, but it just, it wasn't authentic to me, you know, so it was kind of strange because I was, I was the quietest, probably most reserved one, but I was just new, maybe, and I was different, you know, I remember, and, and our, the molding of our worlds, like combining them was just, it was, it was cool, it was like, Tom and Mark learned what Dickies were, you know, like, which I used to just get at the Riverside Swatme or Fontana Swatme, so, you know, it would be like, oh, this is cool, Dickies, you know, it was just, it was just so funny, like when our worlds met and combined, but we were, I was from a different place than them, but we were into the same stuff, we like, descendants changed our lives, like we loved the cure, I got Tom listening to like Tribe Called Quest, you know, his favorite rapper was Q-tip, like it was just, it was just so cool, I would go to shows with Mark all the time, so it was really natural when I did join the band because I was hanging out with them so much, even when I was just torn with them, because we had so much in common from the bands we, we were listening to, to like growing up skateboarding, whatever. For those who don't know that the Aqua baths going back, you know, it's Skopunk, and this is an era in California where those Skopunk bands, like No Doubt or World Wide, was the goal of that band to be huge, because when, when, in the dock when they talk about Blink, it's like, well, whatever record exactly, you guys were referring to said, you guys are going to be bigger, richer, and more famous, you know, yeah, in Aqua baths, like if you were to bet on one of those bands in some way of the, they, they sounded like a bunch of other bands in 1996 that were like World Wide, amazing from that area, you know, sublime from time to time, and from, you know, no doubt, was, were the expectations when you were in the Aqua baths that you were going to be in a major rock band? Was that, was that, were that you guys were going to be rock stars? Well, Christian was the, the brains behind the Aqua baths. He's the brains behind, obviously, Yo Gabba Gabba, anyone knows the Aqua baths knows that later, you know, he also had that, that cartoon is still around and it's awesome. So yeah, his vision was always like World Wide takeover. Um, and he had, he had a, a huge, huge plans for the Aqua baths and they were also like, they wouldn't cuss in their songs, but it was still, I don't know, it never felt like you were listening to, it wasn't, you know, majority of the band is Mormon, but it didn't feel like, and there was any like, like they were holding back, or it was like affecting the writing, like he was always making music that could be, you know, the sky's the limit. Um, so at the time, yeah, who knows, who knew what was going to happen? They were already messing around with the cartoon. They had the most insane merch. They kind of lived in New Wave genre, punk rock genre, scotch genre. It was like, I don't know, and they were, they were, they were, they were just right below blink, you know? So when I joined blink and that record exact was like, you're going to be more popular than you ever thought you were. You're going to be, you have more money. We're touring in advance, sleeping on people's couches. Yeah. We're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like you, you are completely insane, you know? So, but my goal was never any of that. I had such, you know, like really like low expectations, like the only thing I wanted to do was play drums and somehow have enough money to survive, like eat and sleep and live. So I was kind of, I was, I don't know, I had already exceeded that. So I was like, this is, all this is awesome. Like I never, I never even thought that was possible. When you, in the doc, you talk about your mom, obviously a lot in the beginning, you're driving force in your, drumming and your musicality. When she passed away, you said that it made you question religion and made you kind of not believe in anything. And towards the end of the documentary, when Rocky's comes in the picture, it, it seems like there becomes more conversation about religion and maybe, or maybe it's just colloquial ways of saying, thank God for this opportunity, you know, how has religion shaped your, your career? Because that really is the beginning of your drumming all the way to where you're at now. Yeah. To me, I think I was at 13, like when I lost my mom, I was just, I had no understanding of anything. I don't know. I think it was the first loss. I really experienced too, you know? And it just felt like I had no answers to anything and I felt, and it was also unexpected. I just didn't know, know exactly how to navigate from there. Like who to talk to or if there was anyone to talk to, it was like, I was just like, how, how could something so fucked up even happen? You know, to where there wasn't any answers and I didn't have any, there was no therapy for like what happened. So I really did just dive into drums and didn't grieve much. Just, just put my hands up and, you know, charged whatever I was going to try to do. And at the time it was just all I knew was drumming. I think like, thank God I had, I had grown up with a very disciplined practice schedule because that was like the one thing I was confident at when something like that happened to me. It was like such a blessing. And then yeah, I think even leading up to my mid 20s, I was very careless. I was like, I don't think I'll live to be 19. I don't think I'll live to be 21. You know, I kind of like that mindset. And I was kind of living carelessly. And then all of a sudden, you're in your 30s and you're like, whoa, I'm still here. And then yeah, I mean, I, I think it took a long time to understand, but I always, I always had like faith in God. And I always, I grew up in, you know, going to Catholic school when I was a kid up until junior high. So I always believed in God, but there was times where I'd just be like, I can never agree when someone goes, oh, it's like meant to be. It's like God's plan. I'm like, no, I don't, I don't think that, you know, I think it's like a, it's a unfortunate chain of events. Like, I don't think like, you can't, like, you can't go to someone and their best friend dies in a car accident. Like, guess it was his time. You know, I'm like, fuck that. Like, I don't want to think about life like that. You know, I can, I can still believe in God and say, like, I'm, I'm having trouble understanding it. Or, uh, or just grieving with how things happened. So from the time I had like landed, I knew God was great. And he was like, a miracle to see, like, your first born, you know, born. It's a miracle in Alabama. And then, uh, Rocky being born. I'm like, of course, I believe in God. Of course, I'm Christian. Um, and I, and I have faith, but, you know, there was definitely times where I, I just, uh, I struggled, you know, like not, not so much during my playing crash. Did I struggle with the idea of God? I think it was more like when I was younger when my playing crash happened. I was just like, you know, I think my biggest obstacle with survivor's guilt. And then just once again, having faith, like, I'm here for a reason. Are you still struggling with survivor's guilt? Mm, not so much. I've like, I feel like I've made peace with most of it. Like I've, you know, through communicating and having such like a close relationship with a little Chris's son, Sebastian, who's my godson. Um, and his mom, Linda, I'm really close to chase mom, Thelma that I'm really close to. I think all that, all that stuff helps me. And then, and then just not sitting around, you know, focusing on survivor's guilt, but, but trying to find ways to like honor them. just through life today. How is trauma affected you as an artist? As an artist, I think well, it's kept me in music the entire time. That's been anytime something tragic has happened. I feel like I've always thrown myself back into music. Not that I ever leave, but I think I just really, really go in a cave and I'm just focusing on music or just focusing on drumming and without it, I don't know if I'd be able to express myself in some other way. You know, I was listening to the diary of a CEO the other day and it had Dustin Poria. I don't know if you saw like what happened with him, but he's like, I'm a fighter. I don't know what to do when I wake up anymore. I don't, I don't, I don't have a list of things I need to get ready for. I don't have a plan. I don't have like a goal, a short term goal, a long term goal to work towards. And I'm like, oh, I could relate to that. Like I have to, if music was just taken from you, luckily, like music doesn't have an expiration date or a time when you have to leave or retire, but I couldn't imagine if someone just, you know, said, okay, you're done, can't, whatever, you're 40 years old, you can't play drums anymore. I would be like, to be lost, you know? I was talking to Dan Wilson about this. You know, Dan Wilson is, he's a great songwriter, Future Hall of Famer, singer from Semisonic, but I also wrote like, you know, someone like you, is like a massive writer. And he was said to me, it's like, man, when you turn, when you turn 40 or he was like, you know, maybe it's all done. Like he had already, he had already done Semisonic, all these other things. And then he writes, you know, whatever song for Dixie Chicks, it won Song of the Year. And then he is 50 and he's like, it's all over. And then it's like, he wrote someone like you for Adele. And then it's like, it's all over he's 60. And then he has like five Song of the Year-type nominations in the last couple of years with Chris Stapleton and fucking, you know, whatever it is, the guy just keeps going and things keep happening. You're now in your 50s, but it feels like you're hitting a stride, like a new stride. How do you predict your next decade? It's so hard to say. I can't even, when I think about, you know how people are like, I wish I could go back or I wish I was this age again. I never, I never have that. I'm like, dude, I love everywhere I've been up until now, you know, and I could never predict last year what I would do this year or the opportunities that would be given to me this year or whatever projects I would produce or be a part of or anything. Life, you know, life in general. So I just take it literally day by day, like I don't know. And I'm always like what I want to do changes so much day to day or month to month. So what do you want to do now that you've not done before? I mean, I want to keep writing and producing music. I also would love to work on another solo album. That's like genre-less, you know? Maybe somewhat in one genre, but also just, you know, kind of bleeds over in a couple of different ways. That excites me and just work in every genre, you know, continue working in every genre. Like I think my best months are when I get to do a lot of different things and a lot of different, you know, styles of music that's the most fulfilling for me. I call my kid, pal, because my dad calls me, pal. And so when I saw that with you and your dad, I was like, oh, that's amazing, you know? Yeah. My wife also was like, at first she's like, you know, she's like, pal, so old-fashioned. I was like, yeah, but it's what my dad called me. Yeah, you know, timeless. Do you call your boys, pal? I don't, it's just me and my pops, but still to this day. Like I talk to him every day and I say, what's up, pal? Like it's just, yeah, it's the best. Now my youngest son is Bubba, that's his nickname or Rocky is his real name, rock. And Landon has been like Bubby's since the day he was born. So what's the difference between having a kid in 2024 versus having a kid in whatever the math would be in 2000? Well, 2000 was my first time doing any of it. I got it, I got a little like lead start 'cause I met my, my oldest daughter, Otjana when she was two years old. So I did have years with her before Landon was born. But I was doing everything for the first time, you know, and it was the best and I didn't really have anyone to guide me or anything. So it was just like learning on first hand, you know? And it was one of the best experiences ever and I was a single father for a lot of it, which was awesome. So with Rock, it's just, it's like doing it all over again. I can't imagine being where I am now and not having a baby. Like that's two, I feel like. - Why do you say that? - It just, it makes you feel younger. Like I couldn't imagine being 50 and not having him now. I would feel like I was being cheated out of something or missing something that keeps me younger. I feel like it also gives you that urge to like stay young and stay healthy and push yourself so you can be the best dad. It's like, it's all the same feelings I had when Landon was born where I started running to the freeway and back. I went to a boxing gym and started boxing. It just, you just want to be the best version of yourself for them. Yeah, I really want my kids to see me at my best and not see. Yeah, my dad did a bunch of cool shit 10 years ago. So it keeps me wanting to show them what work ethic is and when you love something outside of being your dad, I want you to see, you can do some really cool things in your life and you, you know, I don't want them to see, you know, the perk of being older and older dad is that you can, you know, maybe a blessed older dad. It's like, I'm not as worried about how my kids are gonna eat, you know, or if I'm going to have longevity, I'm more concerned about being available to them and that, you know, showing them what you can do. Yeah, but like, I agree with you. I think also in LA and art, you go to a preschool and most of the dads are not the age my dad was when he had me. Yeah, you know, or when you had London. Yeah, London just released music. Yeah, he has like a, I love his single that he just put out. It's great. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's great. How do you feel about seeing, you know, I feel like it's a cliche when in LA, when, you know, an actress, kids like, I want to be an actor and you're like, no, don't do that. You know, that feels like that's not how how London was brought up. No, I mean, he was brought up, both of them were brought up, Alabama, London and Otton over. They were on transplant rancid tours and blink tours and it's so crazy. Little Wayne tours. So they were, do they have the craziest upbringing? I mean, meet the barkers, man, they were there. They were like, their whole life, like, I feel like. Yeah, they were like rock and roll kids, you know? So it doesn't surprise me that they're all into music or entertainment. And I feel like, yeah, I feel like there is a curse for a lot of kids that go and try to do something that their parents do. But then there's those exceptions where they kill it and they're just talented and they, it's authentic to them. They're not doing it because they're hoping to, to kind of win off their mom or dad's co-tales. And with London and Alabama, I just feel like both of them are into music, it's authentic. They just love, they love music. It's undeniable. Do they listen to you? Like, do they listen to your advice when you give them advice on their songs? Yeah, most of the time they'll, he'll ask me. I'll rarely go in and be like, hey, you should do this, you know? But if he says, Dad, a lot of the times I'm in, I'm working in A and I'll go in B and just say, what's up, he's like, Dad, please help us with a pattern, we need a drum pattern, you know? And there's producers over there kind of like, probably just like, just like drawing in what the pattern is. Whereas I'm like, once again, resort back to like singing what you feel in your head or what, what feels like too many kick drums, what feels like it allows the track to breathe, whatever, you know what I mean? And then I'll just tap out, you know, whatever they need or just go in A really quick and recorded form. Do you enjoy working with other producers on, you know, Blink Stuff? if you obviously still have producers come in and whatnot, but here you're a very capable producer, you're an A-list producer. So, do you enjoy the collaboration? - I love it, I love collaborating. It feels like you're in a new band every day. If you have a new room that you put together every day, I also love getting songs that someone's struggling with or they started it and they can't figure out how to finish it. I feel like I'm confident in being a closer. - Yeah. - You know? - Yeah, I want to ask some advice questions for upping, upping, coming, drummers and producers. What's something that drummers should practice more? - Playing to a click, having a really great time and feel. - Yeah, that's such advice for working musicians as a whole. It's amazing how bad people are having it. - Yeah, you ever see some people skip the step, you watch them play and they've got the skill level, if you want to call it skill level, but they're doing a lot of, they're doing maybe some stuff out of their skill level because the timing's not great yet. - Yeah. - So they have these fills and they have chops, but just the solidness of playing time and not speeding up or slowing down or being consistent isn't there. But they're already doing all this. That's, when I see drummers do that, I'm like, oh, if you could just stay here for a bit and then you go there, you know? - Our Patreon question for this interview was from Danny Paz and she says, I'm a big fan of people who dare to make all kinds of music no matter the style like you. After everything you've done, do you still feel like you have to justify your artistic choices or have people reach the point where they simply think Travis Barker equals all music? - I like Travis Barker equals all music. That feels good, but forever, if I do anything, I mean, it happened when I played with A.M., like punk rock kids are pissed off, you know? If I don't, you know, if I play, I miss you and I just play a loop, they're like, dude, he's not even playing crazy drums. It's like, you can't win. So you know what? You just have to, you have to do what makes you happy and artistically what satisfies you and what makes the song sound good, but as far as like going to different genres, like those things really make me happy. Like I know a lot of people know me best from punk rock projects that I've done, but I love almost every genre of music. I'm like, I'm the worst person to go to and say, like, doesn't this song suck because I'm gonna find something good about it? Like I don't think anything sucks. I'm like, oh no, that's a really good chorus. I see how people like that, or that feels really good, that drum beat's like undeniable, whatever, you know? - Yeah, that's, yeah, that's real. It's like, I always think that the word critic is the wrong word for, because the assumption is that critics feel like they have to critique something versus being an appreciator, you know? And there's certain people where they listen to something that, yeah, but I really like that. I like that chorus. The fact that you can listen to something they'd be like, it doesn't need drums. - Yeah. - It's a scary thing for somebody to hear from you, you know? Like, no, that's, the song doesn't need much. Maybe it needs like a, yeah, a tambourine on four and that's it, you know? And I like that, it gives that vintage vibe or whatever it is. So, how about, I'm gonna list a few different artists that you've worked with. I just wanna hear thoughts on your experience with them. Lil Wayne. - Awesome. - Why? - He's just such a, he's such a good artist and what is like a rock star in his genre. Also, such a good talent, like, he'll be at the studio and he'll live with the verse. He'll go in like the courtyard of my studio. I always just try to tell everyone, leave him alone. Goes out there. He is like written and memorized his verse in his head and then comes in and tracks it, you know? Maybe the whole process is maybe 45 minutes to an hour. - So sick. - Yeah, and just, yeah, just incredible. - You have this crazy memory when it comes to playing drums. Do you have that memory when it comes to lyrics? - Remembring lyrics? - Yeah. I mean, I only sing like one song live with Blink and it's literally three or four words, I think two words. It's like a punk rock hardcore song. So, I've never been in a situation where I have to remember lyrics and sing them. But I can imagine it's really hard. - MGK, such a talented artist. More talented than people give him credit for. He is really, he is really a great writer and someone who pushes himself musically all the time. He plays guitar and he's constantly trying to get better. He's an insanely hard worker. - Young bud. - It's super talented. I watched him, I watched him be, I watched him in the studio through several projects and he's such a talented singer and songwriter. I feel like he had, it took him a while to figure out what style of music he should make because he can do it all. Literally, he can do it all and I think he's found his sound right now. But I think he was like, from what I understand, he was like a theater kid, which completely makes sense because he is so theatrical, he is so, he's so theatrical, he's so talented, he can kind of sing anything. Yeah, he's a rock star. - Jelly Roll. - So, Jelly Roll and I were, we made songs like 20 years ago when he was a rapper. And he was in Yellow Wolf's camp. And he was always hanging out with them. And I remember I played drums on something before him back then. Fast forward to, we did the fire relief. I forget what song we did. We did an amazing song together though. And he's, he's just, I'm so happy for him. He's such a solid guy and a great, great singer, great artist and to see what he's grown into from him being a rapper back in the day, you know, he's just, he's another one of those guys. Like, I feel like Yellow Wolf, NGK, Jelly Roll, kind of all cut from the same cloth and they can do a little bit of everything. - Man, that Yellow Wolf stuff was so good. And it was, you know, the quickest delivery, this incredible shit. I wrote the sickest hook to this one track. That was like his versus and the hook was empty and it came to me. - Yeah. - And I don't even know. Sent him for back to my publisher and I have no idea if it was ever heard. But I remember hearing this, like this, this verse over and over again and just been, how is he delivering that? - Yeah. - Rapping double time over beads. Like he's, man, like pop the trunk, all that stuff. He was, I wish he would have gotten bigger, you know? I wish he was like, I agree. Oliver Tree, man. Oh man, that's a, that's a tough one. He's, I think the first time I heard about him, he asked Mark and I to jump on a feature on a song of his and then we got in the studio maybe a couple months later and we started working on music together. He's just the funniest, like what a, like what a special human. No, there's no one like him. For real. Willow Smith. - She's incredibly talented. Like I've known her since she was a kid. I think she's like another one that's kind of like, Dom, like Youngblood can do anything. I know she got really popular with like the pop punk stuff she was doing, but once again, I think she's genreless and it's just like a piece of what she loves and a piece of what she can do, I hear all the music that she makes now and I see what she posts online and she's, she's, yeah, she's so talented. - What are your thoughts on AI? - I hate it. I'm not, I'm not a fan. I think like my new rules in the studio is no auto tune, no editing, little to no editing and no drum samples because there's already gonna be enough of that. And then you make non-AI music and you grit it and you put drum stacks on it and you tune everyone's vocal. It practically sounds like it. to me, you know. So I think I'm leaning into just real, real performances, real drum sounds, and yeah, that's just what I'm into. I mean, there's no question that the analog music world is going to be, I just, I would put all the money in analog as a record exact that I can't imagine fans are going to want to listen to AI-created music, even if it's something that's, I understand when it's used as a tool, if you can use it the way that an arpeggiator on a synth, you know, if you can, some, if there's versions of it that are used within its own thing, they generate something new, as long as people are compensated for whatever they put into it, I could see worlds where that exists, because all things considered, we're using, you use serum or something like that for synths, or you're, you know, you're twisting knobs and you automate some of these things that are presets within a synth, some of that stuff is still questionably whether you want to call it artificially generated. I think the slop is dead. I think there's nobody who's going to choose to listen to that, you know, but I can't imagine that there's going to be a lot of money that's going to go towards, you know, AI-generated music at this point. Yeah, I almost feel like in a time where everything is going to be AI and it's going to be so polished, like I hope we get like the dirtiest, loudest, most dangerous bands to ever exist. I feel like it's just opening the doors and welcoming something like for like that to happen, you know? Also lovely, it'll be bands. I also love like, I think same thing goes for like cars, everyone with like electric cars and whatever else. I'm like, I'm buying like more 64, 59, 62 Chevy and Paulus. I want, I want to like, I want to live in it. I don't know. That's just my world. Like, I don't, I don't know. I want to hold on to that. I also collect old BMX bikes that I grew up riding and like skateboards. I don't know. That's like, that's my childhood. You know, but when I think of MTV, when I think, you know, you're a big part of media, you know? How do you balance your, how much media has is a part of your career? Even when we were talking about a band earlier, where like, they love doing content. But they're living, they're living that. That is what they do. How do you balance these two things? The sort of analog feature with people who have to live in a highly curated and social media world? To me, it's doing it authentically like to the person, right? Whereas like, if a band is like used to, whatever, they're like, oh, we got to go film content today. And that's what they do. But if like, I asked you to do it, it would be different for you. You're like, oh, my content's going to be different because this is, this is what I'd want to share. You know, because I also feel in a time where bands are having to do that or artists are having to do that. There's something about the mystique and the artistry of not sharing everything. And I feel like that's also going to be really valuable in the future. Where do you store cars? I understand that you can store vinyl somewhere. BMX bikes, they're not that big. When you're saying like, I'm buying these cars, where are you keeping these cars? Well, I've had a sickness, a disease for a long time with old school cars, like old Cadillac, Chevy trucks, Chevy Apollas. So I have a garage that's just dedicated to like all my old schools. How many cars do you have in that garage? I got 12 in there. How many do you want in there? I'm kind of getting, it's kind of gets a little hectic after this going above this, you know? So yeah, there's just like two years that I really want, like I really want a 61 in Paula and I really want a 58 in Paula and a 64 in Paula. And then I'll probably be done with Impollas and then I'll, I rest for a little bit, you know? But yeah, my studios, my studio is about 10 minutes from my house and my garage. So I drive it usually a car, pick up one of my old schools, go to my studio, you know, come home. So I get to drive them every day. It feels like, you know, many of your collaborators, a lot of people who've talked about who've passed away from, you know, not just the accident, but in, you know, drugs, this lifestyle of being a rock star, being a celebrity, what's advice you give kids who want to be in this seemingly unhealthy lifestyle? I feel like it's what we make it. You know, I had to teach myself, which honestly took months to go to the studio not higher on pills, a figure out how to just like reset and re-approach life. It takes a minute, you know? Whereas if you never do it, you don't have to do that reset, right? Yeah, right. But I think there's so many talented musicians and artists out there in bands that if you just don't stop and you don't give up, you're going to be successful at some point. You're going to have some type of success, especially if you're just relentless and you just keep going and you're you have some talent and if you're you're willing to work hard, I feel like you'll be successful. I honestly believe that we're in a time where I see less of it now. I see less drugs, less drinking and way less than what I did before, you know? I remember even when I was in my 20s and I would be in rap sessions or doing whatever. Like when someone would I'd pass the blunt to someone and they'd be like, I don't smoke anymore. I'd be like, how? How? How did you do that? Like I couldn't even wrap my head around me. How do you quit? You know, anything. My story's a little different. I only quit because I was in a plane crash and I was in an accident. I was in a burn center for six months. That was my rehab. That was my wake up call. That was a call from God, you know? But I, I mean, unfortunately, I mean, you could say with anything, right? I mean, some football players or basketball players or fighters, you know, it kind of comes with the territory too, is like letting go or partying. Same thing as musicians, I just think you got to make good decisions and you got to kind of take care of yourself and I don't know, a positive mental attitude. Try to, you know, PMA. You got to try to like navigate through this crazy world and maybe music is your therapy rather than doing drugs or going in that direction. And when we started this conversation and talking about parenting, it helps a lot too. If you have kids, like I couldn't dare be a dumpster and have kids, like I care so much about how my kids think about me and how I appeared in my kids. It was everything after my accident. That was my, my savior, like my kids and God, you know? So I feel like being kids makes everyone a better human. Well, and also like Rocky doesn't give a shit whether you're, whether you drink the night before, he's going to be up in the middle of the night or early in the morning. And if he wants to hang out with you and you're hungover or you're not like in your best shape, like yeah, it'll show real quick. Oh sure. Two hours into like running around being like, I don't know, you're exhausted. Like I've been up already for hours today. I've had a long ass day. Like you have a little kids like it's nearly impossible. Yeah, it's impossible. I don't, I don't know how people, yeah, it's, yeah, it's the great equalizer. So they say, I'm going to list a few songs and I just want to hear a few stories with, you know, tell, tell me like a studio stories or how they're written or something that sparked some, some joy for you. I want to hear about the falling down remix of Lil Peep and XX Tantassian. Oh, cool. Yeah, that Ron Perry from Columbia had hit me and he's like, hey, can I, can I send this to you? I want to, I want you to remix this or just give me something different. So I just muted all the drums that were on the original track and played do it a few times. That's, that's what came to me. Can a drummer get some like what an incredible, like, yeah, that one was like, uh, that was like we were talking about it. When I first got into producing, I almost thought I had to be in a different genre to produce and it was really exciting to make this album with a bunch of my friends and mainly rappers that I loved working with. So it was just, yeah, it was like a combination of like guitars. I was trying to be like, how could I best represent myself through rap music but still have it be like drums and have it have like something that rap music didn't have at the time, which was like a lot of guitars or any guitars. Kind of in the vein of 99 problems or something, you know, like living in that same world was what I was really inspired by at the time. I love seeing the documentary, there's a clip where I can't remember if it was landed and it was earlier if it was rocky later holding maybe a ukulele in your playing guitar in the background. Are you gig guitars? I'm not, but it's like the one instrument I want to learn that rocky loves guitar too. Any loves drums, so a lot of the times if he's playing drums, I'll play guitar, just play cowboy chords and just jam with them. Are you guys going to have like a partridge family out? Maybe that would be awesome. It's got to happen, bro. I will write some songs for that one. All the small things. This reminds me of in my documentary when Tom goes, he was like, dude, why do you guys just, I think he says something like you guys just, why do you guys just keep doing the same thing though. And then he said Travis tilted his head like a dog and he opened the valve, you know, and I think that was like all the small things with my age again was like everything was so, you know, it was all up tempo. It was everything we knew up until then it was the descendants, it was, you know, propaganda, no effects, bar religion that, you know, that was when I started kind of just saying what about different tempos you guys like all the small things could be like a mid tempo song, you know. What's my age again could be boom, which was really inspired by job breaker box car, like the rhythm of box car, the drums didn't do that, but what guitars did right hand on guitars did that. So yeah, it was around, it was around that time. But Tom had all the lyrics, all the melodies pretty much ready. We just didn't have a bridge. That's funny, but you just didn't have a bridge. I feel like that's like the bulk of most sessions now. Yeah, majority and that's like my that's what that's probably the thing I feel most confident doing is figuring out bridge and like song arrangements. Adam song, tell me about that. Adam song was written in a rehearsal studio, honestly. And yeah, it was just kind of a riff that Mark had and then I started playing that that sort of weird drum beat in versus over it. And then yeah, that song came together really quick. We all stayed together for the kids. I have to ask about that. That started with the drum beat. We were kind of finished with. That's how that's gonna take off your pants, right? So I think we were we actually made that album played played all our demos for everyone. And the label and management came to us and like, where's all the hits? Like, where's what's my age again? Where's all the small things so we went in and we wrote rock show first date. And I think stayed together. And yeah, that that came out of that and I think I went on a tour with another band and I had given them drum a drum idea for another song. And I gave him a verse idea and a chorus idea and that was stayed together. So it was the closed up drums and the verses tight drums almost like hip-hop sounding drums and then big choruses. When I worked with you guys at Feldies, I was working on lyrics with Mark and I know he was, you know, he was talking about making, you know, it's like you guys have to write about what's going on in your lives now. But you guys have like this. You're, you know, your rock band. And here you guys have released now a lot of albums and you've done a side project hundreds if not thousands of songs you personally. How do you write songs that aren't redundant at this point? One more time's a good example. I'm sure you know, you know all day, Greg. Yeah. Yeah. So Greg and I were in the studio and we were, I was just writing just to write like a bunch of projects were happening, but he had this idea for one more time, but it was more, it was more relationship based between a, you know, a couple. And I said, there's a way to flip this and it really probably is like a knife in the heart for like blink because it's like one more time, but let's make it about how dysfunctional my band is like my band so dysfunctional. Our band literally will go years doing great break up, I'll get in a plane crash, then our band will get back together. But only if I didn't get in that plane crash and I almost didn't die, we probably wouldn't get back together. And then we have a cool couple year run and then break up, then Marco get cancer. Then the band gets back together. So I was like, let's write about something that like blink fans have experienced for years and they've lived through and they've been a part of. And it's something that's so true that's like gut wrenching, you know, for like anyone to hear like us sing about it ourselves. I feel like it's so much cooler than us writing a love song, a relationship song. Having done fashion as well as you have what have you learned from fashion that's applicable to being a musician and what have you learned from being a musician that's applicable to being in fashion. Hmm, that's a good question. I think like don't over produce don't don't make things to I don't like things to be too polished in any way shape or form. I think of I think of putting almost like a group of a collection of clothes together, the same way I do songs like if I'm writing an album and I need 11 songs. I want to write 20 because I don't want to be just stuck with those those 11 ideas, you know, so I feel like I approach like clothing the same way. And kind of rolled out the same way. I don't think you can just like surprise people and just be like, Hey, we we have this and you expect it to do really good. I feel like a good, a good, you know, few weeks or months of teasing stuff or, you know what I mean, getting people excited is helpful. I feel like when I approach writing a song or a project and I get into it, I have like an idea of the instrumentation I want to use and I have my go to guitars that I like or, you know, synths or whatever. I try to find whatever the cast, cast the instruments around the project, whatever it is. You have this collection of cars and BMX bikes. What's your collection of drums like? Oh, it's getting crazy. I have a lot of vintage kits. I just bought up every DW stainless steel kit that was available because they don't make them anymore. So I have everything from I think 22 all the way up to 26 inch kick drum. I think everything from like a 10 inch Tom to like 18 inch Tom. That was like my most recent. I probably have about 70 or 80 snare drums. snare drums are like just as important as a snare is on a song that you make in Ableton, like your snare, your acoustic snare to a rock band is very important. The wrong snare like can ruin the song, you know, so those are probably what I'm most excited about. I feel the same way about ride cymbals. The wrong ride symbol on a song could ruin the song. Yeah, maybe the best part of the doc for music nerds is the fact that your drum kit is small. You know that you can you have all those drum kits that you choose to, you know, like it's a snare, a ride of crash and Tom and the floor Tom. Yeah, but you know, it's generally dude, and if there's more than that and I'm like playing on someone else's kit and they have these extra two times, I'm like, what the fuck? Like I just like have to ignore them because I'm so not used to anything being there. I'm really like I really love just one up one down kick drum snare drum. But when you when you were you know, uh, we're only a few years apart. Like in the 80s, you know, when you're first starting to play drums, like half those drummers, like the whole show, it's just like, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, yeah, like fucking everywhere. Like Dave Rombardo, everyone had a big kit. It was also starting to play shows. And I didn't have a drum tech. So I was hauling my own drum kit around for a piece drum kit, you know, for life that's kind of this, I think I'll probably always play that. It's not, it's not much different, but he had one up two down, you know, one extra floor thumb. But yeah, I think I'll always, I think I'll always have a really small kit. You had Questlove on and he's got like a part of his sound is his snare. And it's like, it's his snare. I mean, I'm sure he has 70 to 80 snares also, but when I think of Questlove, like, he's got like a really specific sound as a drummer. You know, but because you're playing on so many different projects, I feel like your drums are changed per project, you know? Yeah. Is there a blank drum kit? There is. I mean, there's definitely a sound if you listen to, especially what's my age again. You know, I was also a member. I was coming from Aquabats. High pitch snare. I'd use a flam head, a marching head on my snare. And then right before the Aquabats was high school and marching band, marching snare. So I always had a high pitch snare and blink. It was as high as I could get it without Jerry Finn being like, nope. You know, he was like, it can't sound like popcorn, trap. And that was like a good, that was a good learning lesson for me. I was like, oh, please coach me. Like, please tell me, Jerry taught me this snare for this song. You know, match this snare for this song, whereas like just going in, not knowing. I'm like, oh, no, I should probably just have my sound, right? Same snare. I don't know, whatever. It's all I knew too. I didn't have a bunch of snare drums. So by default, I was like, okay, I guess I'm using my snare, but then he kind of like taught me like bigger snare for the slower tempo songs that are more ballads. Yeah. You know, keep my high pitch snare, but not as high for some of the fast stuff. Yeah, but it's definitely part of my sound, but like going back to Quest, it's like, you could give all of us a Quest love drum kit. You got to, you got to have pocket like Quest and you got to, you got to play the drums. It's more than just the drums. You know, it's like Quest has a certain feel. Yeah. Do you have too many snares? Never, never enough. I was telling you know, it made me feel really good. I was with Tim Armstrong the other day and he's like, trap. I have 175 guitars and I'm like, thank you. It's what I'm doing is okay. I'm not that bad. This Courtney ever say like, hey, stop, stop. Like do you have to deal with the same shit we all have to deal with? Oh, for sure. She said stop buying snares. Sometimes like, I'll show her something like I think I showed her, I showed her a snare drum the other day. I think she entertains me. Yeah. She's like, oh, that's cool. Babe. That's really cool. You know, I think the last one that she thought was like really cool looking was I got, I got one of Tommy Lee snares from like the theater of Pain Tour, which looked like almost like a small floor tom or a marching snare. And there was only three you made and it was just unreviewable. Does he know you have it? No, I haven't even told him yet. Well, he does now. That and like, I got a large snare that I used all, I use all the real place right now. I broke it. Unfortunately, like, I hit it too hard in the lug tour off. So I'm trying to find a lug for it, but that's been my favorite snare that I've used on everything. And I'll put up another bell brass or a black beauty. Anything nothing compares to it, like Lars snare from like the, I think it's like the 90s early 2000s is like unbeatable. I would like to think that there's a text chain of all of you drummers being like, check this out. I stole your snare from it. I did. I hit Lars and I was like, look what snare I'm using today. It's so good. Yeah. See, like, I've been looking for that. No roadies. I'm sure he is a bunch. I'm like, because it's broke right now. I'm contemplating hitting him and being like, you happen to have like another lug laying around, but we also don't want him to know that his snare is broken. Yeah, from hitting too hard. That's a weird thing to test him of all people and be like, I hit your snare too hard and it broke. I know it's like, that'd be a, he's like, what? How? Dude, thank you so much for doing this. Oh, thank you for having me. Like I said, your, your career is so fun because I think a lot of people ask us what's advice on their career, what path you should take. And all I know is that you walk through open doors and you make some cool choices and cross your fingers a little bit. Yeah, you never know what's going to happen. You never know. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting that the documentary, "Loud of Them Fear" that comes out soon is it's a love story to music. It's a love story to your wife and to your children. You know, that through all that that you've gone through, it's a love story to those things. Totally, you know, and when you say like you want to write a, live your life like it's a movie, I think you've done that, man. Totally. I pinch myself every day. I'm like, this can't be real, you know. Well, thanks again, man. Yeah, of course. Thank you. There you go.