Ep. 255: Brittany Howard | How Alabama Shakes Went From a Garbage Truck to Playing with Prince

Welcome to And The Writer is, I am your host Ross Golin, today's Southern Alternative Rock Innovator doesn't just perform music, she transforms it. Supported by her gritty guitar tone and gritty lyrics her voice tears open your heart via your ears because beyond the accolades is a catalogue of soul, a discography of rock and roll and a playlist of authenticity. All the way ironically from Tennessee, this writer travels the roadless travel. And The Writer is Britney Howard from Alabama Shakes. Hi, hi, we just nerded out about synthesizers. We did. Yeah. Do you have a synthesizer collection? No, how did you get into like, you know, your music is feels like it's the tone capital of like alternative music is where you go to find cool sounds, what kind of like, how did you get into the cool sonics in music? I think for me, the sonics is like, this is just an nostalgic thing. I think it's cool using an ear to listen for something and try to figure it out. It's like when you're watching an animated TV show and you're trying to figure out the voice of the actor, but you don't want to Google it. It's kind of, it's just fun. It's fun to chase down things. You could be playing something so simple, but then once you run it through this, run it through that, it becomes like a main character and that's just something like us as a group have always been interested in from the get go. We were always really interested in like, especially like drum sounds from like 50s records or 60s records. How did they do that? Like the guitar sounds like it's in a different room, how did they do that? And then just reading about it and trying to do a little research on how we could recreate it. It's a weird thing when you get into trying to recreate sounds when those 50s records were done in mono and there's a mic in the room and then it's how they played it. But that's so opposite of how people mix records now. That feels like a fool's errand, isn't it? I don't know if it's a fool's errand because in the process you're finding something new and sometimes that becomes a thing that you return to, you know, we work a lot with Sean Everett and Sean's the kind of guy that will try absolutely anything, even if it takes a couple hours, you get there and it sucks. I feel like we always learn something along the way, even if it's just like, don't do that again. You know, that was a waste of time, but usually it's not a waste of time, usually you discover something. Man, that feels like the first time I did an album, you know, out here with a record deal, we had a big room and we spent the first two days miking the snare and like just hitting a snare drum over and over again. There was a different era where people cared about the nuances of a snare and like it wasn't a sample, wasn't you just flying it around? Now everybody wants something so fast. How do you have the patience to go through searching for tones? Oh, wow, I never thought of it in like a way of patience. Like to me, that's just part of it, it's just part of the fun part. Sometimes you sit down, I'll have like, I have like this old amp, it's just called a Kingston. I'm not sure who really makes it. It's just this one speaker, it has like this crazy sound and reverb. And when you turn up the tremolo all the way, it kind of cuts into the reverb a little bit, creates this, I don't know, this cool, like almost like a signal, like a compressor chain kind of deal. And it's like, oh, that's cool, you know, I could do that. Well, I guess I'll play through this on this song and it creates a new kind of thing. The whole thing's kind of like happy accidents and fun and I feel like once I catch myself looking for something, then it's kind of boring. You just kind of show up and mess with stuff. I had to be honest, I don't know what I'm doing. Did you know when you hear it, right? But that's called taste, you know, like preference or preference for somebody with taste is just taste. I feel like a preference for somebody who doesn't have taste is just bad taste or no taste. I hear you. I search and try to find, I think this, like if I think of an Achilles heel, when I always say, when I'm trying to build a team of people to write songs with and do albums with, it's like I'm always trying to find someone who fills up the 20, 30, 40, 50 percent I'm missing. And one of those is having an engineer or a bandmates who are really good with tone because sometimes like you start on your third, you know, passive at doing a guitar tone, they start to sound the same, you know, how do you maintain your taste? Hmm. I guess like this is going to sound terrible, but like new gear, I just, I just get stuff that looks interesting and then it may sit around for a couple years until finally there's like this right combination happens and taking a weird guitar and plugging it into like five different amps and then I have like 36 guitars. So I got to go through the 36, plug them in and like, oh, there's something special about this. Okay. So this is going to be my main squeeze for a little bit until it starts to sound boring and then you kind of just keep searching like that and then you add in more guitars and more amps. It just becomes like, I don't know, a romance, what's your current main squeeze? My current main squeeze is, it's just unnamed Japanese guitar, looks like a Tesco, not sure if it is or not. Has all these little buttons and switches and that kinks an amp and if you go through all these switches and mess with that a tremolo reverb kind of combination, you can get a lot of really strange stuff like high pitch stuff, but it doesn't hurt your ears kind of thing. It's pretty cool and then I have this strange, who makes that amp, it's like a triangle amp like this. And I kind of like hit it with a stab it with screwdriver and now it's like the best fat tone possible. What day was it that you said, I'm going to stab this amp with this screwdriver. It wasn't giving me anything cool, like it just sounded like an amp. I thought it because of triangle shape does not be cool, but it just kind of sounded like a kind of clean amp no matter how much I pushed it. So when I stabbed a speaker, then it started breaking up and then when you max out everything, it's just like, it's like amazing. This is my favorite conversation we've ever had. I love it because it's like, sometimes I think people are lost in the speed in which it takes to finish records in 2026 and the desire to like rush through versus not giving up on a guitar tone is exciting. Do you have a catalog of all your guitars or is this something where you, are they all on display or are they in cases? They're in cases. It's kind of leaned up against the wall. So do you just sort of like, you just kind of know which goes where? Yeah, I recognize all of the cases. I love it. Wait, can you repeat, sorry, this is, if this is too nerdy for all you out there, I'm sorry. This is interesting shit to me. Can you repeat tone after you leave? It's one thing to create it. It's another thing to be, oh, well, we're going on tour. I know I need the Kingston and I need to use this, you know, this unnamed Japanese guitar. I got to make sure to bring that because this, these knobs in this way is how you create the exact tone that was on this album. Do you have that ability? I can try to match it on something more standard to the best of my ability, you know, because there are pedals too, which I'm not like a huge pedal person just because I, the only reason is because I never, like they're expensive. And like coming up, I just never learned how to really implement them. But now I use them more often and, you know, the silver tone mix, a great, I think it's silver tone mixes pedal. It's a silver tone pedal. I'll put it that way. And it's really cool to do a lot of things. And I use that a lot to try to match tone from the album because I can't bring my Kingston out because it's like this big and, you know, my sound guy's going to hate that, you know, trying to get enough signal from that on the stage right in front of some drums, yeah. So I swap gear out. Well, okay, I want to tell a little bit of your story, how we got here, you know, being born in Alabama, it has such a rich history of music. But it's not where you go to find all the commercially successful bands of the last 25 years. Tell me about your childhood and being raised in Alabama, what's it like? What we, you were born, let's start there. I was born in a single wide trailer and cotton patch trailer part. I lived there with my mother, who was a white woman, and my father was a black woman, and my sister Jamie, we lived there, and then when I was about four years old. So we went literally two minutes down the road to this property that my grandparents bought for us and then go down a long travel road across a bridge and it's just this beautiful expansive like pasture pine trees and there's a creek and I remember being like four years old asking my mom like are we rich now? We were not rich but we were able to get that through our grandfather. So I grew up there and my mom collected farm animals so I you know we had geese, turkey, ducks, chickens like 96 cats, 26 dogs like all of that and then my dad also wanted to have a junkyard because that's what he does and so animals on the top of the hill were the grasses and then down the hill so my dad's junkyard there's like a very very fun place to grow up. I was out there all day. So many people in this neighborhood who have kids feel that they need things, it seems like things having like stuff makes them happier. Do you feel like you missed out on anything by not having the kind of things that people in this area have? It's kind of a loaded question because I kind of think I know the answers but you know my only thing is I wish my parents wouldn't had to work so hard. We had everything but at the end of the day your parents are working to keep your lights on and keep you fed and get the things that they want and provide us with things they think we want or need and you know what it's just been cool we could have like chilled together as a family more often. Yeah. I think I was a wealthy child because I had like clean air, water to play in, lots of animals to pet and play with and you know junk cars to hit with baseball bats. It was awesome. Yeah that sounds amazing. Tell me about the music in your household. You know one thing my family could always agree on was Prince, my mom, my dad, loved Prince, Gladys Knight, my mom loved Elvis Presley, she had a nice collection, Elvis Presley and memorabilia. We were a blended household of music. I like Patsy Klein, I liked, you know we had some George Benson playing in the house, obviously we had Luther playing in the house, we had a lot of 90s R&B in the house and then on Friday's we had this radio station called WZYP, they would play Funk Friday's, so Funk Friday's we had like the gap in Funkadelic and my dad had a tow truck business by then, so he would pay me $20 a day just to ride in a tow truck and we would listen to Funk Fridays. Oh that's the best. What was the first time that made you want to pick up a guitar? You know guitar was in my first instrument, it's not an instrument I actually even wanted to play. It was out of necessity. I couldn't find guitar players at the time in high school that would play the actual songs like how they go and I didn't understand what was happening and I was like why don't you just play it how it is and they're like I am and I was like oh shit, I guess I got to play the guitar because I wanted to be a bass player, that's the truth, I just wanted to play bass and sit in the back and play bass. I didn't want to sing and I didn't want to play the guitar, it was all out of just like if I'm going to be in a band, I guess I have to do these things, you know. Just bass your first instrument then? First instrument drums. Do you are there on the solo albums later, I know that do you play all the instruments? Are there albums, you know you like prints, prints play a lot of instruments, how many albums are you playing multiple instruments on, you know, do you play drums at some point on any albums, do you play bass on everything? Yeah, we've been in out, obviously I prefer Nate Smith to play drums but if Nate Smith doesn't there one day, I'll get on the drums, gosh, I can't remember what songs it is that I do the drums. But definitely on my solo records and on a new Shakespeare record, Zach's actually playing drums on one of the songs. Oh cool. Yeah, we just didn't, I think most of us can play drums like very, very like enough to record the song, you know. Yeah. Hey guys, if you ever wanted to get further in the world of Man the Writer is, if you ever want to sit in that seat across from me, well guess what, you can now join the conversation. That's right. Because we just launched our Patreon, you'll get access to our monthly zoom hangs where we'll listen to demos, give feedback, you can hang with us directly and we can hang with you too. Look, occasionally we'll bring on some guests that will chat with our community and maybe most importantly to me, you are going to have access to our 200 archived audio episodes. That's episodes of Charlie XC X and Sabrina Carpenter and Lynn Manuel Miranda and Shania Twain and Babyface so much, so many great interviews that you can get amazing insight and knowledge from. So come and check it out in the description below. There's a link for you to join us on Patreon. Okay, so you, you start playing drums, did you have a drum kit? I had a really bad drum kit, sounded really, really bad, me and my cousins beat that up. It was, it was done in a month. So my music teacher had a slingerling kit at her office and music teacher, she was a band leader, you know, a band teacher, so she let me borrow it and I brought it home and I kind of would piecemeal it together and till I had like a set that had like a symbol, a set of high hats, a tom, a low tom and that was enough to start recording. So you started recording before, before you picked up guitar before you started seeing you were already recording drums? Oh no, it was, no, it was like I could play the drums but I didn't have a set for a long time. All right. Yeah. So like eventually I borrowed a drum set and by then I had already picked up the other instruments because I didn't have drums anymore. So I started recording and I was like, you know, like 12 or 13. So young, but in, in LA, you know, I didn't grow up here. It was, but it seems like here, you know, kids are raised thinking that you can record in a studio. That's like, that's not crazy. Somebody's dad does something, you know, you just grew up around it, but when you grew up in the woods where I grew up or wherever, you know, you grew up like that. If you want to record, that feels like you probably don't know any other kids that were like, yeah, I'm going to go record. Where does it come from? Where, where did you get the idea? I should record music. It was just, did somebody say like, hey, why don't you try recording this? No, it's actually something I never thought about before that is kind of crazy. I don't know. I just, I heard that bands had recorded music and I was like, I too want to make music. So I should probably also record my songs, and it was all like song, how can I say like, you know, when you're going to go write a song and you're like, yeah, I can hear it. And then, you know, the kids are going to start like this and then put the bass line under it. And then, you know, it's all coming at you and you're like, I just got to get that down. I just got to get that down. You know, it was kind of like that. It was the only way to preserve it. And I started off with, I don't know if you remember the software called Audacity. Audacity is like the simple as it gets. I think it was free. And it was just as a multi track recorder for, you know, the computer and like a Pentium R, which that's not even a Pentium one. I don't even know what that was, it's like experimental. And you know, track at a time and I was making my music just like that, no effects or anything. It's one thing if somebody says that when they're 18, 19, 20, it's another thing when somebody wants to do that at 13, you know, how soon after you started. Did you feel like you could present a song and did you present it to your parents? Who did you show these songs to? Well, I guess like the first person I started making songs with was my best friend Maggie. You know, so that puts us like in the sixth grade and we're recording those songs to make it to the last. And then I got a little bit older in high school and I was like, I think I really, you know, I really got to make this music thing work for me, you know. And so I saw this guy walking down the hallway in school and he had a at the drive-in shirt on it. And you know, I'm from a little county school. And so the fact that this guy knows who had the driving and I was like, Oh, that's my guy. He's cool. So I was like, Hey, man, I made music. I heard you play bass. Do you want to come check out the music I make? And he's like, sure. I had like a little demo CD. We go in his Honda Civic, like 94 Honda Civic, right sitting there immediately. And he's just like, it's like the most vulnerable thing ever just to be like, I make music. Here it is. Let's sit and listen to it together. And he listened to it. And he's like, All right. Cool. Yeah. Let's make music. Great. So that was that. So me and Zach started playing it. We've been playing together since I was probably 15 or 16 years old, you know? And we would get together. If not every day, like every other day. And we were we were we were trying to learn everything that there was to get better. And so then we started making demos and eventually, you know, I set a little CD in my mom's nightstand just to show her what I've been up to. And she came home from work one day, you know, she listened to it in the car on the way to work. She came home from work. She was like, I didn't know you could see. I was like, me either. So there's kind of a discovery around that. I didn't know that I had a likeable voice. I always thought of my voice as something like abrasive and 'cause I like to do punk music, you know, that's what I had discovered at the time. So I never thought of it as something that could be beautiful. - I mean, that's what makes your voice so great. You know, you can't teach tone in the minute you start singing. It's like, oh, I know, it's brilliant. Like right away, you know, it's a good mom for recognizing the skill that you had early on. What's the first song? What was the song that you played Zach in the car? Do you remember? - No. - Do you remember the first song that, what's the first song you remember? - Writing? - Yeah. - Oh man. Nope. Oh yeah, I do remember actually. So a long time ago, I would say my grandma's house and she had a piano in there. And my sister, she would play the piano and we would come up with little songs. And the first song we wrote was called Carluta the Potato. It was a blues song about this potato named Carluta. How did it go? You know, you had your like, ♪ Thumb, thumb, thumb, thumb, thumb, thumb, thumb ♪ Okay, we had that. And it was like, Carluta, potato. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ - Say, repeat. (laughs) - Okay, so what's the journey from you and Zach being like, okay, we're doing this. You put this CD on your mom's nightstand. What's the story from that? How do we get from that to, you know, the Alabama Shake's EP? What is, which is a long story? So give me, what's the story? How do you get to that? - Well, me and Zach have been recording music together. And at the time, I had this like, best bud who's playing drums with us. And, you know, I told my best bud when we were 18. I was like, "Hey, man, I'm really gonna try to do this for real." And he was like, "Beh, beh, beh, beh." And so eventually, I was at the music store. We had one music store in town. And there was a guy there who was a drummer, I knew who he was 'cause he played with some friends of ours. And I was like, man, if you ever wanna come play with us, it'd be cool, like just come through. So now he's playing with us. We're writing songs together. We make this little demo. And this guitar player who was in town who had always wanted in our band. I thought he was just a really great guitar player and he played cool songs. And I know he liked cool music. 'Cause at that time, like 2004 or something like that, he was playing like print songs and David Bowie songs. And I don't know, all kinds of stuff, deep cuts. And I was like, "Man, this guy likes good music." So I knew I wanted him in our group. And he had a band, they were called Stone Phillips, I think. Or no, they were called two-coast pistols, what they were called. And that was the band in the area. And he heard our demo. And he was like, "Oh, man, we should have this group open for us." And I was like, "Cool, we'll do that if you help us." Like, can you play the guitar with us? So we can get it together, you know? And he said, "Sure, I'll help you." And I was like, "Cool." And in my head, I was like, "Got 'em, you know, finally." And then we'd go and do this show. And maybe I said it was like 30 minutes on. And we were playing like Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, James Brown, ACDC. We had like a Loretta Linson, we covered in it. Just covers. And we had like a couple of original songs we snuck in there. And it was the first time I had ever actually actually been on stage in front of people who don't know who I am. Anything like that. So we walk on a stage. We all look like we're from different planets pretty much the way we look. And everybody's facing audiences like, "What is this about to be like?" You know, ready to make fun of us. And then, you know, the song started. I opened my mouth, I sang. I was so nervous. I feel like I blacked out. And then when I came to, everybody was clapping. And we had already played for 30 minutes. And I was like, "Oh my God, that's how I walk our stage." And me and the guys were like, "Oh my God, it was so good." And then somebody paid me. And I was like, "Oh, I get paid." Which was crazy. But it was like tips from the people. And they tipped well. And I was like, "Oh my God." And all I could think about was my utility bills paid. You know, like I was just like bills paid. And I looked at the guys and it was so much fun. It happens organically. I was like, "Let's do this again. "We kept doing it, kept playing shows." And eventually, you know, that guy who I wanted to play guitar with that was Heath. You know, Zach was in the band, Steve was a drummer. And we went to a studio. And, you know, we love those analog records. We love the way they sounded. And at the time, that wasn't like a super popular choice. But we found a guy named Andrea Tokich and Nashville Tennessee. He had a studio called a bomb shelter. And his prices were very good. Like, he just wanted to meet people and record music. So we went there and he put us up. I remember sleeping under the mixing board. And we had the money, you know, we had to save up money to go to the studio. And we did, and that's where we recorded the EP. And we had it. And at the time, I was kind of, let me and Heath were kind of acting as like band managers. We were trying to put our music everywhere we could. For the purpose of really just like maybe getting signed and maybe being able to make a full length. And eventually things kind of snowballed just from playing our live shows. Playing those original songs. People were talking about us, telling their friends about us. And eventually, you know, we found our way to meeting the right people and being able to do this for a living. How many people were at that first show when you were nervous and then you came to it? - 50, 75 maybe, it was a bar. - It's so crazy. Because you think that as an aspiring musician, whatever level that is that you need a ton of people, like thousands of people to feel a certain way. But the reality is like you can only be so happy. Like the joy that you got out of that 50, 75 people is different than when you have 10,000 people, but it's not more than, do you know what I mean? At least for me, I feel like there's a level of excitement and happiness that comes from something like that that feels equivalent to some crazy shows where there's a ton of people, be like, man, you can't, like as a human, there's only a certain amount of, I don't know what the, what is it, serotonin or whatever, you know, that you can actually get. And that's, that already is a, you know, there are bands that don't get applauded after performing for anybody alone, just seeing how a little bit of hope it goes a long way for, you know, for an artist. - Oh yeah. - So you go, you said you, you know, you record this album. You guys are kind of managing it yourselves, trying to get it to people to get this record deal. How do you get it to, it's ATO that signs it? Is that the first record? Yeah. So how do you get it to ATO? - And that's Dave Matthews' label, right? Or it used to be? Isn't that like the history of it? How did you get it to them? - Oh, well, it kind of all started with this guy, Patterson Hood. He's the singer for Drive by Truckers. And we were playing at this festival, it's called the WC Handy Festival in Florence, Alabama. And it just celebrates, like music being notated, old songs being notated. That's what WC Handy did. And, you know, we're playing this record store called Pegasus Records. And, you know, my whole thing was that I was excited about, was they have video cameras. And we were gonna have footage. And my thinking was, I'm gonna get the footage I'm gonna put it online. This is a great resource for us. So I was like, cool, I was already happy. So we do the songs, we're doing the show, people are in the audience, they're having fun. And I'm walking out after, and this big tall guy with this raspy voice is like, "Hey, Brittany, I'm Patterson Hood." I'm like, "Oh, hey." And he's like, "Hey, listen. Would it be okay if I told my managers that I saw you here today and then come talk to you?" And I was like, "Hell yeah." You know, I had. So I went out party, slept in a chair, and I wake up, and it was, you know, basically, come meet us at this hotel, let's talk. So I had my demo. And at the time, I was a male carrier. So I still had my male trick out, but it wasn't like the government male trick. We had to have our own male trick, that's a whole other issue. But I had my own private male trick. I'm home over, I'm driving it to the hotel to meet them. I still got my pajamas on. I walk in, there they are, these folks from New York, they were cool. I really liked them. You know, they had a good vibe, felt good about it. I gave them the demo, and I was like, "Let me talk to the guys and see if they're down for meeting you all." And then everybody liked everybody. It seemed cool, and we went on the road and we drove by truckers, and then from there, we were invited to do the CMJ festival. And then from there, ATO became interested along with some other labels. And we ultimately chose ATO because we liked their lineup. We liked the music that they had on there. It's so good. It's just nice to know that that you've always been really authentic to just sort of like, you know, showing up in your pajamas, hungover. I have a choice. That's just how it played out. Yeah, but you had a, you know, you did, that the choice could have been not going to the meeting or to do some other sort of thing. It's like, you were like, "Yeah, no, that's all it goes." - I loved opportunities, you know? It sounded like one. - So then you go in and you sign this deal and it's not true soon after that where, and I guess I don't know the order in which the fans came to actually like understand how good and boys and girls is, you know? I remember hearing Hold On 'cause it was the, when iTunes would give you like the song of the week, and it was like, you know, just showed up. It was probably on my iPod at the time, you know? It's like, this is a different era. Recording that album, the album sounds amazing. But there's a difference between like, you know, you're in a different studio. Probably, what's the recording process around your first sort of record deal kind of budget? Oh, well, the thing is, when we recorded boys and girls, we had, you know, a few years of planning songs and writing material. So we had it all ready. And by the time we went and put it down and recorded it, I was like, I was like, cool, like, I'm interested in other stuff too. I can't wait to record those things. But people found out about Hold On, and they found out about boys and girls' album, and that was really starting to take off. And I was like, wait, but there's more. You know, like, we have more to say. So by the time we actually had a budget for the studio, you know, I was excited to record the other type of music that I also liked, which is just a little bit more, like even if you listen to boys and girls, you hear something like rise to the sun, or you hear something like going to the party. It's not throwback, it's not really retro. It's kind of leaning in a more, I don't know, it's just a different direction that has more influences. And that was something I wanted to keep doing. So by the time we got to sound in color, I was like, cool. Like, I want to show them what else we do too, you know? Is it easy for you to write songs? Sometimes, not all the time. Like, how do you write a hold on, and how do you write a song like that that feels like it always has existed? You know, there's a funny story about hold on. The guys had this riff, and the riff just kind of kept going, and going, going. And, you know, as a songwriter, that field is so wide, the bastions, so never ending. I don't know, you could do anything, and I wasn't sure what the right thing was. And I used to drive around as work truck, I used to pick up trash for living. And I was driving around a work truck, I had a track and device on the truck, I hid the track and device, and started driving over the mountains, the mountain in Alabama. And I was just trying to think like, what can I possibly write on this song? 'Cause I would have a burnt city of our songs, and I would try to work on stuff as I was working. And I was like, I just don't know, I just don't know. And then all I heard was like, I just got a hold on, 'cause I was thinking about how much I hated this job. And I was like, that's it, but that's all I had. All I had was the word hold on. And I remember we were supposed to play the break that Friday went to the break, and I said, hey guys, if y'all just play that riff, I think I'm just gonna make something up. So we go up there, this is not a lie. I just make up this song. I knew I wanted to say hold on, and everything else was just made up. I swear to God. And I look in the audience, and people were singing hold on. And I was like, this must be it. Like I got it, you know? And as for the verses, I just, you know, went back to my house immediately, was like, this is what I'm talking about. This is what I said. This is how we put it down, so we had it. And then that became the song. We just kept repeating that. Until we fine-tuned it, and to what I was really trying to say. And then we recorded it. Is it, that's such a good story. NNPA is our lead sponsor yet again. What is the National Music Publishers Association? What do publishers have to do with songwriters anyway? Well, unlike artists who can be unsigned artists, there is no such thing as an unsigned writer. You can be a self-published, a co-published, or a publisher writer. Publishers only make money if songwriters make money. So NNPA goes and fights for you. They go to Congress, they go and support the community. They fight DSPs to get you paid more. That's what they do. They fight for you, and they fight for this podcast. So thank you for fighting for songwriters NNPA. Thank you for fighting for us too. When you are doing, you know, delivering mail, picking up trash, these jobs where you're literally moving around while trying to write songs and whatnot. Do you find that currently in this era for you, you're not doing those jobs anymore? Is that lifestyle created a song like Hold On? How do you write from that kind of place when you're not doing those jobs anymore? That's a great question. I mean, I feel like I still really like to work, like physically work as a person. I think it just keeps, I like to go to bed tired, you know what I'm saying? So I like to work out my yard. I like to help my dad with projects, I like to help my mom with projects. I'm always up to something, and I'm always also a very curious person. So like when I'm not working out in the yard, helping somebody with their house or something, I'm honestly just learning. I like to learn to have more time to learn now. And so I'm kind of just, I don't know, there's some philosophical stuff I'm learning. And then there's stuff like how do you put an engine together? Like I'm kind of endlessly curious as a person. And I feel like that actually helps me stay creative because I think of things and I don't know, how do you want to say like it changed my perspective a lot, which I think has been helpful for like my new era of writing or rather like I'm older now writing. I think a lot of people assume when you get a record deal that you are done having jobs and you know, you're saying that you're, when you wrote hold on, were you already signed at that point? No. You weren't. Yeah. Kind of crazy. Like that. The change of getting, how does getting record deal change how you live? Honestly, the thing that I noticed most immediately was just an excitement and a willingness to pour my whole self into this because to me, at the time, I was like, this is my only shot. This is my one opportunity. And it may not last very long. So my thing was, let me, let me light buckle down, put everything I have into writing music and getting better at it, essentially, we're parents always supportive of this journey. No. I say my dad was, because he definitely let us practice right next to his bedroom. Yeah. And then my dad, you know, junkyard, he pulled like this old, single-wide trailer at behind house and really running extension cords to it and we turned it into our studio. So then we were practicing right behind his bedroom. And he was always cool. He was always patient. He was always cool. My mom, when I was younger, she didn't understand what I was doing. She just thought I liked to play guitar or, you know, I was just in my bedroom all the time. So she kind of was more just like, make sure you get a job, you know, like make sure you have a backup plan. She was kind of like being responsible. Yeah. But, you know, obviously, once she realized that it was going to be a serious job. She was 100% behind us here. And that, when hold on, it comes out, but it's like, it's a, everybody knows it, it becomes ubiquitous. It's a huge song. It changes sort of the whole, there's nobody who's in music or a fan of music who doesn't learn about Alabama shakes in you as a person. Did you feel pressure to hold up to sort of this? To me, it was like, oh, this bands, these are the people who save rock music. I mean, it's not to put pressure on your shoulders. But like, it felt like there was this, you know, this narrative around what you guys were doing is being so authentic in an era when it was super pop heavy and you guys were doing, you guys were a real band doing real band music written by real songwriters doing that thing. Did you feel pressure to save rock music? No, no, I didn't, no, not at all, because I knew lots of rock bands. Yeah, fair. Yeah. And we played with them totally. What were the, what bands in the era of Alabama shakes? What bands inspire you most in the era of Alabama shakes? I really loved Kingsley on first two albums. I thought they were really cool, and we used to listen to them in high school. It was kind of like the album when my oldest friend got their first car. And that's what we put on. It was awesome. White stripes. And then we listened to a lot of classics, like the classics were what I was most inspired by, which is Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, ACDC, Jimi Hendrix obviously, I liked Motorhead. And I also liked like some hardcore bands, like American Nightmare, Converge. I was just, I had my ear to the ground, I just liked whatever I liked, you know. And I think all those influences did get pulled in. And obviously, like I also loved classic old school rock and roll, Chuck Berry, and these groups like around men that were just song, like this song was going to be two minutes and 58 seconds, so it's going to hook you a whole time. Those kind of songs, like songs of my grandma liked from shoes in high school. I love that stuff too. What were your expectations, releasing an album with a major label? A major label? I guess any label for that matter, but like, you know, releasing your music is one thing when you're doing any P or you're recording, you get a record deal, they like hold on. It's one thing where you hear about, okay, these people are going to re-release, release this music. Your expectations could have been, we're going to be playing huge, you know, huge rooms or it could have been whatever it was, you know, what were your expectations, was it just to release the music? Yeah, we didn't have many expectations because we didn't know much about the music industry. We literally just had jobs and all we wanted was to have an album, so we knew we were going to get that and we knew it was going to go out and we didn't exactly know or realize what was going to happen next. We were just so happy. We felt chosen, we felt grateful. And then everything that followed was kind of like, what? Like every day was kind of like, what? What's going on? What happened? It's like amazing. And also just, and I mean, I say incredible in every sense of the word. We were incredulous at the response, we never knew it was going to be like that. These are just some little songs we made up, you know, it's kind of crazy. How did you, how did you deal with that emotionally? I think at the time, we were just so excited and we're young, like I was like 22 years old. Right. So just like, drank, like have fun, stayed out late, met new people, everything was exciting because where I'm from, I'm from like a little land locked town. My family never really went on vacations. I had never really seen anything. So for the first time in my life, I'm seeing things, I'm meeting new people, like like minded people, you know, because I'm from the country and from the county. And so I felt always very other and very different. It felt sometimes I'm just saying it felt this way, like I had to internet and nobody else did. Sometimes that's how it felt. Like everybody liked this country music and then like pop country and they liked that. And then there was like those of us who actually like wanted to know a little bit more about music. So it kind of, you felt other then. So when I went out in the world for the first time, I was like, oh, all these people already know how this cool music and I can relate to these people. It felt like I had found my home out there in a way, but the home was transitionary. It kept moving because you're on tour. So it was, you know, I don't know if I had time to cope, I guess. At what point did your mom recognize that you made the right decision? I think when I went on the road, I think she realized like, oh, she's doing it. You know, and I came back and, you know, I didn't have very much money to begin with. So when I came back, I was still able to pay my bills, like my light bills and stuff. She was like, okay, this is a job, you know? You went and you do, you know, the heavy Chevy P and there's some other releases between that and sound and color. Did you have just an abundance of music that you needed to get out before, you know, what was the writing process once you get from, okay, now we're abandon everyone knows to sound and color? Yeah. So we got back from like the boys and girls tour and I guess we've been to one for a couple years and I remember this whole time I had a room and my dad's double-wide trailer. So I just live in the back room the whole time and I came home and I was like, I'm sick of living like this, you know, there's like a mouse that lives in my room and I remember calling our countenance and being like, do I have any money? And they were like, yeah, I was like, I would like to buy a house, please, one house, you know, please. And so got a house, lived in the house, which was crazy and then I made a little studio in the basement and that's, you know, I spent a little bit of time kind of decompressing to the best of my ability, but my sleep was like ruined, my sleep during the day, stay up all night. So then I got a MIDI keyboard because I had never had one and I was like, this is cool and I started making music like from sound and color, like I made sound and color, I made Jim and I made things that were kind of over my head, they're like a little more key heavy because I had that ability and started writing string parts for the album and that was really, really fun and I was being inspired by that. And so I would just stay up all night and basically I was writing sound and color and I had these demos and I was very shy about the demos because they were very different from boys and girls. And I remember showing the guys some of what I was doing and I was very, I was stressed about it. So I was like, I just didn't want to hear that it was bad because you know they're feeling and they loved it. And I was like, cool, so let's, let's do this, you know, and we went to studio and recorded those. Sean Everett becomes a big collaborator of yours and he's obviously a legend in a certain space and he, how do you meet Sean Everett and how significant was that relationship to the sound of Alabama shakes? So for sound and color, we were kind of taking our time going to the studio. So our managers were like, maybe you should get a producer and we were like, what's that, you know, and they're like, is somebody who just lights a fire under you so that you get the work done? And I was like, okay, that sounds nice. So we really liked the break mirrors album by Blake Mills, we liked the way it sounded. So we were like, well, that's a cool sound, maybe we, he'll do it. And I had a meeting with him and he was interested. So he brought Sean in to be the engineer and you know, you couldn't help but like Sean, he's got a great personality, he's really, really funny, he's a goofy guy. And so when we were going in the studio every day, there were times where it would just be like us and Sean and we just kind of kicked it and hit it off. And one thing I noticed about Sean was he was always down for anything. And I just really appreciated that about him. You know, he never came in and was like, well, we got to do it this way. And he was just so open. And that made me feel like really super comfortable and more open myself to work with him. So that's kind of where it started. Yeah, that Blake Mills break me his album is so, it's so legendary. And you know, you guys end up working with the guy who's, I don't know if he, if he won producer of the year that year or not, but he was nominated for like, it feels like for 10 years straight for it. So you end up, you know, oh, I like that album. And then those people want to work with you. Do you ever think like, man, this is the kind of amazing, you go from, I guess we have to have a producer to having basically the two of the best producers, the engineers in the game working on your stuff, kind of amazing. Well, yeah, at the time, you know, maybe Sean wasn't as well known, you know, obviously back then. Yeah. Don't want to fight is such a good record for a number of reasons, but it's licensed like crazy, you know, it's something that just felt like it was heard. Everywhere when you came into the business, you were saying how you didn't really know anything about the music business, but then you start learning about it and you start seeing what the effects of your recordings are having on commercial music. How much do you feel like a song, how much do you watch things like charts and the success of licenses and are you involved in any of that or do you just, or is it on the side zero percent involvement? I don't know nothing. My manager's right here. I don't know what's going on to a, I mean, what's crazy is like that song has enough streams that is basically like everybody in the United States has listened to it twice. That's cool. That's cool. That's awesome. I didn't know that. If you're like, that's on that, you know, that sounds the way it does is like, it's so loved. That's, that's fucking awesome. Um, they're laughing over there. I didn't know that. These are great numbers. It's, it's pretty wild. The, you know, yeah, that's so cool. Man, that's awesome. Pushing the, it's not just the sonic choices, but the actual writing is different on this album. It inspired you to, you know, the, I feel like what was, you know, a rock band has blues and. elements of, it felt really organic. It felt really live. This feels like there's, I mean, there's moments of, I mean, even if you don't want to fight, it feels like there's like disco elements, you know? What made you want to push the envelope as a songwriter? Oh, I think I was listening to, so I really like composers and instrumentals. And, you know, I was especially leaning into that then. Like, listening to the buddhas band, mini-hand street band, instrumentals, I just liked when music itself had energy, but have vibe, had mystery, made you feel other things and like, I'm gonna dance. It's almost like, I got into jazz, I found out about jazz, I would say that, but it's not completely true. It's just, I was just being inspired by world music and the way that that type of music made me feel. And so when it came to sounding color, I was like, I just went landscapes, you know? I was watching a lot of movies at the time because I didn't have a job anymore. So when I came home from tour, I was a little depressed because I didn't know what to do with myself, you know? So I just like, you know, stayed home and watched movies like all day and I caught up on a lot of the greats and I started to have like preferences and tastes for movies. And I, well, like my dream at the time was to do a soundtrack. I really wanted to do a movie soundtrack. And so I guess when I was doing sounding color, I was coming at it from that angle. It was like very much inspired by film and just that feeling of nostalgia, like how things make you feel and almost like what color of the song is. If you could bring a stack of movies to you to a desert island, what are your five movies you bring with you? I mean, I don't know. I'm not really like a rewatch person. I'm just kind of absorbed and I'm like, oh, any move on. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes someone's stick with me. Like, I feel like one of the ones that really, I really like Ridley Scott. I think I think he's really good at making films that are like in a world. I really like the original Blade Runner. I think it's such a cool world, such a cool soundscape, you know, evangelist is on there. I think that'd be one of them for sure as a Blade Runner. Winning Grammy, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that was really awesome. It's fucking wild. Did you, is there a peak for you in your career? Oh, man, you know, the peaks for me are meeting like some of my peers and meeting some of my heroes. Those are those really been those peaks for me. Being acknowledged by someone I listened to since I was born. Who do you have in mind with that? Prince. Prince. That was pinnacle. Talking on the phone with Prince was crazy. That's insane. Yeah. What was the conversation you had with Prince? Well, he asked us to play Paisley Park. So like, literally, we just like pulled the tour over and was like, yep, go to Paisley Park. And he had this list of rules. You had to follow no meat, no cussing, no smoking, no problem. You know, cool. So we broke all those. But he didn't know. I was like, we're in there in his giant warehouse, like Paisley Park. It's like the motorcycle from Purple Rain. And there's Matt, a gas car playing on a like 200 inch projector. We're just like, what is that? We go in Paisley Park, we're sound checking. And he's like, you know, one of his assistants is like, yo, Prince wants to meet you. And I was like, cool, if I'm going, we're all going. So 15 of us go to meet Prince in his studio. He was so nice. He was so funny. Like, I didn't expect him to be as funny as he was. He was like hilarious. He's cracking jokes, making his life. We're doing like a back-and-forth thing talking. And I'll never forget he had on beige times. Do you remember Tom's the shoe company? Yeah. He had like all bays and then beige times. That's like nice. And so he's like, yeah, I want to play on, give me, give me a little one, play on that song. What key is it in? Heath was like, it's F sharp. I don't know what key was then. I was freaking out. So we get up there, we're playing, right? And we're playing the song. It's the end of our set. We have done our set. We're playing that song. I'm looking for Prince. Where is he at? We got all the way three quarters to the song to the part where it's kind of this breaks and bring, bring, bring, bring, bring comes in. I'm like, yo, did he change his mind on us? And then out of nowhere, we see the crowd part in true dramatic fashion. All of our hearts were in our throat school. We were like, oh my god, did we just miss the opportunity to play with Prince? He comes, he leaps onto stage like he was weightless. He's wearing greens, got this bad ass cool, like, green guitar. And we just keep that going. He starts shredding. We do that whole outro together. Extended outro. We're shredding back and forth. It's on YouTube. Somebody put a bootleg on YouTube. And it was amazing. And they kissed me on the cheek and he disappeared. Like when he jumped off the stage, I mean, he didn't land. He just just gone. And I was like, huh? Well, okay, I don't know. I'm not going to ask questions. So he has some sort of wizardry going on. But after the show, we loaded up, getting them back on the tour bus, his assistant was like, yo, somebody wants to talk to you. I was like, cool. I was like, hello? And he was like, did you have fun? And I was like, I really love voice. I was like, yeah. I turned it to a little girl. Yeah, so much fun. Thank you, Chris. And he was like, yeah, keep, he was like, keep an eye out my email you. So we can do some work together. And I was like, that'd be great. Checked my email every day. From that moment, I checked it every morning, every night, spanned, junk, inbox, checked them all until the day I heard he passed away, you know, that it was his heartbreaking. It still hurts to be honest. But that was, that was the most incredible, you know, just being recognized by somebody you consider the greatest is quite the peak. That's insane. I mean, that's, you can't fit all that on a tombstone. But if that's a YouTube. This is, I want you to, this is my story, you know, a scroll comes out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You guys, you know, you guys have this hiatus and it's during COVID, you're doing like all the, you know, this is some solo music journey and doing a lot of things. And, I know we don't have all the time in the world to go through a lot of things, but you guys get back together. What brought you guys back together? Well, we had this buddy and he had his bar. This buddy is a really close friend of ours. COVID had just kind of wrecked his bar, which is the way he makes a living. He's like, you know, I had to reach out to you, but like, is there any way you can come help? You know, I had some success with the Britney Howard solo stuff. So I was like, yeah, of course, dude, like, I'll set up, I'll do a clue success. No problem. And then I just thought, like, well, you know, the shakes guys love this guy too. Like, maybe I should just ask them if they want to also hop on a stage and make it a moment. And they're like, yeah, of course. So I get up on a stage and they're performing. And then I'm like, oh, hold on guys, I forgot my electric guitar. I'll be right back. Crowd laughs. Feel like what an idiot. Yeah. And I come back with the guitar and I also brought the guys out with me. I always surprised them with just a bunch of shake songs. People were just like, you know, they're very, very happy to see us because Tuscaloosa, they've always really supported the band. Yeah. And that's where I started. We got back together after that. How do you feel about the new album? Yeah. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it for several reasons. Why is that? I had to kind of write in a new way I had never done before. I kind of had to put myself, like, into a space of, hey, girl, I know you want to chill, but let's go right. I had to really, like, fight through that and access being creative. You know, I was just like tired and wanted to chill. Wasn't time to chill. It's time to get to work. And I think we kind of wrote songs backwards. Like usually I'm a type of writer who has a full demo. I know where everything wants to go. I'm usually kind of an isolated writer that, you know, I usually write by myself. Now I'm writing in a room of people. And I had to push through it. Yeah. I just had to push through those fears. And I just had to remind myself, like, hey, you can do this. And you can like this. And I'm proud of the work we put out. And I'm especially proud of Zach's bass lines. I think there's some of those bass lines I've ever heard. That's amazing that that's how you listen to it. Also, it's just rule about mixing with a band that I always like where you're not supposed to make a note about your instrument. You know, and it's like, it really works when you're a fan of the other people you play with. And the fact that you and Zach have gone through so much over your careers to then be able to say, like, that you're proud of him for this album. Yeah, for sure. You know, that's that's really amazing. All right, let's go to some, let's go to some rapid fire. If you were to have someone listen to a song from the new album that hasn't been released yet, what is it? It's his time. Why? It's crazy bass line. Cool melody, ancient melody, internordic melody. Which has that come from? I don't know. The ether. The ether. Are you famous? Some would say. What about you? I mean, I'm just bringing it, you know, I scooped my cat's shit at the litter box, you know, and no person. What do you tell Brittany the male deliver girl quit your job? Don't worry about that. Just quit. No two weeks notice. Just leave them. What would you tell your, uh, your mom would probably not have been happy with that, that, that, that advice. Uh, what do you think about your relationship with your parents now? Um, we give along so much better now, I understand them better now. Mm-hmm. What do you understand about them now that you didn't understand about them before? Parents don't got all the answers, they're just people to try figure it out. That's real. What's advice you'd give up and coming artists right now? I don't know, it's like a whole different world now. Um, do it because you love it. Just do it because you love it. Hey, Joel, I've been sometimes people getting his business and would be rich and famous. Just, I don't know, leave music to the people who love music. What's something they used to pray for that you have now? Everything, everything in my life, yeah, everything, every single thing. We talk about the expectations that when you, there was a, you didn't really have expectations just to record an album and release it. What are your expectations now? Oh, my expectations are so different now. My expectations are I just keep finding new ways to love music and love to do it. It'd be cool if I got better at guitar, but I don't blame myself if I didn't. But just I just really, you know, I hold this expectation that I'll always remain curious about music. And I hope that continues to happen. Thank you for doing this podcast for sure. This is fun. You know, your name came up as attached to some, some movie Netflix was working on. I was like, it was an animation. They, I don't know if if you even were a connector, they were trying to get you connected. Whatever it was, it was like, yeah, she's, she's, she's connected to this project. And it was one of those things where we get, I get hit up, I think a lot of musicians get hit up with all these opportunities. Like, maybe right for that, maybe aim for that, do this thing. And what's cool is like you, you carry this, whether, you know, you felt their responsibility or not. You've achieved this, this level of art, artistic authenticity that I think other songwriters and other musicians drive to have. And it's, and there's like just knowing that you were part of a project was like, oh, well, what do I need to do to submit a song over here? What do I need to do to get involved in that? And, you know, like you said, you're at home, you know, scooping cat shit, maybe that's true, but like, whatever, I believe that's true. But what you do with it, what you do with your voice and with your songwriting is truly inspiring to musicians, regardless if they're doing the band thing or they're writing the pop thing or whatever it is. You're writing from such an authentic place that other people in the business strive to be like that. That's really cool. Thank you for saying that, that means a lot. Thank you very much. It's crazy to hear how other people feel about you, because you don't think about yourself that way at all, you know, so I appreciate you sharing it. Yeah, well, keep doing what you're doing, I'm excited for the album. Thank you. We'll have you back for the next one. There you go. That was a crazy print story. All right, Alabama shakes. There we go. That's great. Yeah, it's how you feel. You know, we talked about it. I always wish that we have more time and sometimes people have like a limited time because they're on a tour, they're whatever. And I feel like her stories are great. And she's, she's smart and has like, she's just so chill, man. Yeah, I feel like somebody who has like that upbringing, living in, you know, almost like, she lived in a, in a single-wide trailer. And then, you know, I'm property with animals and a junkyard. And it's like, I want to live in that story for hours. I would love to grow up in a, in what she described as that place. Well, we also, you know, it's just all these, you and our parents and you've got kids who can use their imagination or they're, you know, they're stuck in it in a digital era where they see people on their phones and doing stuff on computers all the time. And then there are people who are out there like playing with farm animals. Yeah. And like that, that child is not what I had. That's for sure. So it's not like I had anything like that. But I had a place where I was like, you could be bored all the time. Being bored is important. It's super important. And you can't explain that to people enough. Yeah, especially today's world and the distractions are everywhere. Yeah. I thought it was so funny. This is slightly off topic of that. But I thought it was so funny that she remembered the beige tombs. Yeah. That was the thing that stuck in it. Yeah. Yeah. No question that like when you do you have any stories like that? Did you meet any idols where you're not really not to that level. I mean, and I haven't really met big idols. I mean, I've met people like famous people, you know, in my time of living in L.A. But nothing like that. I mean, for prints to get on stage with you and play with you. And then call you after the show. I mean, that's just like. Yeah, that's pretty insane. I think there's like the people that you grew up thinking were idols, you know. And like this podcast has certainly had a lot of sattata, a ton of people. And then also being music. Obviously you come across people all the time. But yeah. Oh, this brings up a sorry to interrupt you. It brings up an interesting thought. Out of all the people who have been on the podcast, have you been starstruck by one or a few of them? I would say like a starstruck. Maybe not starstruck, but like taking it back. You know what's interesting is like the general pressure that goes around certain artists. Like obviously when you have people at the level of like edge here and then then you know, it becomes like, are you nervous? And you're like, no, man, I met him before. Like a super nice guy. And I'm prepared to do this conversation. I think I like I'm so impressed with what he's done. Or you know, some of these people like that. I think what's interesting is like the same sort of thing that we were talking about. It's more the people you grew up kind of idolizing, you know. Like having the conversation we have with Billy Corrigan. Was like was like was one of those things where it's not I wasn't just an interview. That was like a real genuine conversation. And Billy and I have texted afterwards. You know, that was really cool to have. You know, this is one thing that other people don't get to do if they're not sitting in the seat. Is that if you meet someone that you idolize or that you loved their music or whatever it is. And there's a bit of a ton of people that we've interviewed that I love. Whether it's like the Paul Incas and Baby Faces, you know, go down the list. There's so many people. But you go and you have this conversation with somebody that you meet, that you really like. The best you're going to get is like, hey man, I'm a fan of you're working like wow, thanks. You know, yeah, yeah. How often do the you remember when the Chris Farley? Do you remember when you were in the Beatles? Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, that's what you want to do. Yeah. I mean, just so I think that's where like I can't overstate that the how cool of an opportunity this has become. Yeah. Where you get to sit across from icons, creatives, and you can kind of ask them some deep dark shit that you wouldn't ask, you wouldn't ask even if you were out to have drinks for three. Who sits with someone for 90 minutes and has a conversation with someone they've never met where you can ask them anything you want kind of to tell their to learn about their story. It's kind of like what a what a privilege that is. So, you know, I've learned to really love that role because like you get to talk to icons like where I don't know how often do people get to talk to when they meet that they're when people say don't meet your idols, don't, whatever. What if you could and you could sit with them for 90 minutes and it wasn't just like the weird time where you're like, hey, can I take a picture? And the person's like, ah, I'm eating like I'm trying to eat my season. That's not, that's, that's, that's meeting them. That's like, I've met, but there's a different thing when you, yeah, you can get deep in and ask them questions and learn about their life and their perspective and all that stuff. - Yeah. - I think that's why the podcast has become cool with our community too. It's like, hopefully I'm asking questions where they get to meet them too. - Yes, yeah. By the time this comes out, we would, the Patreon will have been launched. - Oh yeah. - So we could talk about that. - Yeah. - Where hopefully we'll have a path where people can submit questions, you know, and have a little more discourse with just the community that we can bring into the interviews, which would be sick. - Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, there we go. - There we go, let's see the Patreon. - Alabama Shakes. (upbeat music)