Ep. 253: Nessa Barrett on Fame, Music, and Finding Herself in Public

And welcome to And The Writer Is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. Today's next-gen pop star went from social media star to shooting star. Behind her viral clips and charting singles, this artiste channels heartbreak, rebellion, and raw emotion into every single lyric. Her sound slips between pop, punk, and some crazy vulnerable stuff you can't quite name. She's fearless, she's magnetic, and she's rewriting the rules of what it means to be a young artist in the spotlight in 2026. And The Writer Is, Nessa Barrett. Hey, that was so sweet. Thank you. When I was first coming up, I could make mistakes and no one saw it. I could release music no one heard. I could do music videos that, thank God, are nowhere to be found. You know, there's all this stuff. And right from that. Right from that get-go, it's like, hey, here's Nessa, and you've done it gracefully. Thank you so much. It's really hard. Yeah, it was really scary. Honestly, now, it is just terrifying knowing that everything has been out in the open and my entire journey and finding myself. I think I started this at 17, and I'm 23 now, and I feel like I'm a different person every year. But yeah, it's scary. I mean, what's the first thing? What's the first thing that you posted that was like, oh, people actually are watching me? I don't know. Okay, so back when TikTok became an app, I was in high school, and all of my friends had it. And someone at some point convinced me to create an account and make a video. And so I made it. I made a video with my friend in our school cafeteria, and it was something so stupid. But I just blew up from there. It was the oddest thing in the world. Coming from a random girl in New Jersey, didn't really feel like I fit in at all, even in school with friends. And then having thousands of people randomly all over the world being like, you're cool. I don't know. It was so. It was so weird. That is so bizarre. Mm-hmm. It's also super not natural for a human to be talking to thousands of people they don't know. Oh, no. Your brain's not wired for that. Yeah. It was tough. At first, though, I loved it, obviously. The attention was nice, and everyone had nice things to say. But yeah, very overwhelming. Let's tell a little bit of that story. Okay. So you're. You know, you're a Jersey kid. Yeah. So you were saying, you know, here you are not necessarily fitting in, and then you're having that kind of moment. Mm-hmm. Tell me a bit about your childhood. Um. Hmm. Sorry. Yeah, I didn't really have the best childhood. Um. I moved around a lot, and so I. Was in a different school for, like, um, pre-K, and then a different school for, like, elementary, and then the same for middle school I moved, and then high school I moved. And so I never really had, like, stability with friendships or, like, you know, I feel like some people have, like, like long, you know, time friendships, um, growing up, and I never really had that. Um. Yeah, I didn't have the best life at home. Um. A lot of trauma, um, but. Yeah, I think that's kind of what drove me here, because I was always really, um, passionate about, like, obtaining something greater and becoming something better than, um, you know, just what I, uh, experienced. It was pretty dark, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've been really vocal about a lot of that, so. Mm-hmm. You know, what part of the healing process allows you to communicate about it publicly? Um. I think that. For so long, I felt like I was so alone, and, um, I was crazy and no one understood what I was going through, and, um. One day I just decided, like, if I was given a platform, I want to be that person that. Is open and honest about, like, real-life struggles, whether it's, like, childhood trauma or just, like, all the mental health stuff that I'm diagnosed with and, like, deal with on the daily, like, I just really wanted to be the person that I didn't have growing up. And, um, and so, like, having this, you know, need of wanting to be something important and, like, making, like, all those bad things have a purpose, I think that's just ultimately, like. Like, what drove me into being vulnerable. I feel like when you think of it beyond of, like, your own emotions, then it's just kind of easy. It'd be so much easier to fall into the cycle. Yeah. Did your parents, were they raised in the cycle, or did they have their, or did they create their own cycle? Oh, no, they definitely, it's definitely, like, yeah, generational cycle that I am trying to break. Do you have siblings? Mm-hmm. How are they? Um. I have two. I have two younger brothers. One's, um, my full brother. He, he left, he was eight years old when I left. Um, so we have, like, a really big age gap. And I have another younger brother that's my, my dad's son. Um, and I think he's, like, three. I've probably only seen him, like, twice. Wow. Um, but, yeah, I think, I think they're, they're, they're good. Yeah. When you're traveling through all those different places growing up. Mm-hmm. Were they all, were they all in New Jersey? I mean, I, I don't know. I, I, why, why were you in so many different areas? I don't know. It was just sort of, you go wherever your parents were. I really, yeah, I really don't know. Um, yeah, I just, every, like, three years, it felt like we were just, you know, we just up and left, and it was that, and I had to, like, start over. What's your relationship? What's your relationship with music during all of it? Um, yeah, I feel like music has always been something that I went back to when I needed a safe place. What kind of music did you grow up listening to? Oh, my God. Everything. We were just talking about the Eagles here, but, like, yeah, I grew up listening to the Eagles, um, Prince, Amy Winehouse, just rap, because my, my dad loves rap, and, um, just, like, so many different, um, types of music, um, but my parents both really loved it, and so I think that's kind of, um, yeah, that part of them really, like, seeped into my bloodstream, but, uh, yeah, my dad also, like, his passion his entire life was to be, like, rapper, producer, so I always grew up with, like, a makeshift studio in my house. I, like, recorded my first song when I was, like, four. Do you know what it was? Um. The song? Like, the song? Yeah. Okay, so I've, I actually have it, like. What? I gotta hear this. Yeah. Okay, so there's one, um, one of them is, like, my, my dad's song, and I, like, sang the intro, and it was Tomorrow by Annie, and then the other one I have, and it's, um, he just, like, hooked up the mic, and this, it was, like, this, like, really cheap mic in, like, our, in, like, a coat closet in this apartment that we had, and, like, we would have to, like, take out the mic, and, like, we would have to, like, take out the mic, and, like, to, like, use it, we would have to, like, take out the vacuum, and, like, the coat's, like, hung up, like, it was, like, really funny, but this was just, like, I have a thing of me, like, freestyling. Oh, I have to hear this. Um. It's the thing, also, in that, you know, this, I'm teaching my four-year-old about Annie right now, we're going through all the old musicals and stuff like that, and it's a hard knock life comes from Annie, and it's such a jam, it's so good, you can, and you can hear, like, why Jay-Z. Jay-Z does, you know, has a smash using it, and it's, like, those songs were incredible. Mm-hmm. Were you listening to theater songs at that time, or it just happens that he's, like, hey, sing this song when you do it tomorrow? I think I probably, I mean, I don't really remember, because I was so young. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was, like, a fan of the movie, and then, and then I, um, I sang it, I guess, I'll play you. Oh, I'm so excited about this. The title of the, the file is called When I Look at You, Janessa, because that's, like, my, my full name, but anyway, um, this is, like, straight-up freestyle, like, three, four. Okay, anyway, it's just, like, going, it's just, like, it's nonsense. No, but it's so cute. It's, like, it's, like, you know, we, I, I'm with my kids every morning, my, my. my daughter and I were singing Frozen 2. Not Frozen 1, Frozen 2 specifically. We listen to that a lot because she's always asking. She's only two and a half. But she sings like full, all out, whatever it is. And it's just the cutie, it's so cute. Yeah. That's really endearing. When you think of that kid now, what would you say to that kid if you, you know, if you could talk to that kid right now, what would you say? Um. I don't know. It just, it really makes me want to cry because this has been, like, my dream my whole life. And, um, I really never thought that I would make it possible, but probably I would just tell her to just, like, just keep singing and be happy, really. So cute. So you started recording that young, so you're not afraid to be in a studio. No, at first I was. At first I was so afraid because I didn't know what I was going to do. Because, like, you come out to, I mean, yeah, you come out to L.A. Like, I used to, I was recording in, like, a makeshift studio, like, with my father, you know? Coming out to L.A. for the first time and, like, stepping into these, like, big studios with these people that, you know, do this for an actual living in Hollywood, I'm just, like, I was terrified. It's scary. Um. But, yeah, it took me a while to get, like, comfortable with it. Well, especially at that age, with, like, you know, to go from a cafeteria in New Jersey to, like, a studio in L.A., that's a big jump, you know? That's. I've been in studios with people who think they're ready to be in a studio where they kind of have confidence until they walk into the vocal booth. Oh, yeah. You know, and it's, like, it's all, it's all, like, you know, I'm just thinking of some of the guys that we've met in, like, kind of heavy sessions where it's, like, the friend of the artist, who's just kind of, like, got this big ego, and then he's, like, well, go in, let's try it. Try your idea, man. Yeah. And it's, like, all of a sudden, they, like. Yeah. It's, like, it's really hard to do it. It's really hard. But it does help to have some of the reps in a, even if it's in a closet without the vacuums in it. Yeah. You know, to get the thing going. So what's the journey from then on? You're, you're, you're getting, you're listening to Annie, your dad's rapping, you're listening to the Eagles. How do you. Mm-hmm. When's the first time you think, well, I want to write my own lyric? Um. I don't really remember first time. All I know is that when I. just, like, ever felt sad or, like, stuck or lost, like, that was what I would do. I would go in my bedroom, and I would just write songs. Um. Not. That was, like, my form of, like, growing up with a diary. It was me writing songs. I've kind of done that my entire life. And it, it never was with the intention of, like, I'm going to make it a song, and people are going to hear it. It was just simply, like, therapy for me and a way to cope. Did you record them after you wrote them, or was it more just you would. No, because they were just so, like. Even when I was so young, they were always so dark and invulnerable that I wouldn't even feel comfortable sharing it with my, my family. Wow. But, yeah. What made them. understanding some of the story, uh, before this question, but what made them so dark? Um. I think. I just, I just had a really hard life. And, um, I feel like I'm very open and I'm very honest and vocal about a lot of things, uh, I've struggled with, but there are a lot of parts that kind of, like, haunt me the most and have that I feel like because of my public image, I still feel this really weird sense of, like, protectiveness over the people involved. And so, um, maybe, you know, one day I've, like, been thinking about maybe writing, like, a, a tell-all or just, like, a story about my life and how I got here, but, like, releasing it under an alias after, like, time's gone by, but, um. Yeah, in a fucked-up way, I just. Yeah. I mean, it's such an incredible thing to be able to have an outlet. Yeah. like that. Mm-hmm. You know, to be able to. Whatever things I dealt with in my life. Yeah. it was always. If I spent the time to write it out. Mm-hmm. it would help collect the things and the thoughts. Uh-huh. And then it felt like, in some ways, it reduced parts of issues I've gone through into a song. Yeah. And I could, like, kind of. I don't know how to describe that other than maybe you get that, but it's this weird catharsis, and it. When I think of some parts of my life, I can always go back and listen to, like, a song and know, like, that condensed. What was two weeks of really hard time. Yeah. or two months of really. Or an era, I'd make an album of it, you know? Mm-hmm. But the idea of reducing it to a poem that. Or a lyric. Mm-hmm. felt like that was a way to, like, bottle it up. No, 100%. There's just, like, something, like, really interesting about. Yeah, just taking all of your feelings and, like, putting it into a song. Mm-hmm. Putting it on, like, pen to paper and being able to just, like, read it and be like, okay, yeah, that's that. Like, you can acknowledge it, and then you can, like, move on. It's almost like this, like, movement of, like, energy. And so, like, when it's just trapped inside you and, like, you're living in it and it's, like, your reality, I think, like, moving it onto something, like, physical and something that you can listen to rather than, like, the voice in your own head, like, it really does clear up a lot of that, like, baggage a little. Did you revisit or do you currently revisit any of those notebooks? I've lost them. I moved around. I moved around so much. Yeah, there was one moment I remember. I think it might have been in middle school where my mom found a book where I was, like, writing a lot of stuff in it, and then I. I, like, kind of got in trouble just for, like, the things that I would just, like, say. And I think she, like. I don't know. I'm pretty sure she, like, threw it away, and then at that point I was just, like, I don't feel comfortable, like, writing in a physical book again. And I think around that time was when I got my first phone. And so I'm a big fan of the Notes app. Yeah. Hey, guys, have you ever wanted to get further in the world of And the Writer Is? Have you ever wanted to sit in that seat across from me? Well, guess what? You can now join the conversation. That's right, because we just launched our Patreon. You'll get access to our monthly Zoom hangs where we'll listen to demos, give feedback. You can hang with us directly, and we can hang with you, too. Look, occasionally we'll bring on some guests that will chat with our community, and maybe most importantly to me, you are going to have access to our 200 archived audio episodes. That's episodes of CharlieXCX and Sabrina Carpenter and Lin-Manuel Miranda and Shania Twain and Babyface so much. So many great interviews that you can get amazing insight and knowledge from. So come and check it out in the description below. There's a link for you to join us on Patreon. Do you like handwriting or writing lyrics in a phone more? I love. It's a. It depends. If I'm in a studio, I have this book, and I love physically writing because it also just shows the entire process. When it's all scribbled out and it's random words everywhere and it's a mess, you could really see how the song became a song. But when I am out and about, if I'm in the car with people, I randomly get an idea. The phone's just convenient. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta use it, so. When was the first time you performed in public? Ooh. Um. Well, I did, like, choir and, like, drama. Well, I did, like, one play in high school and then. No, not in high school, in middle school, and then I never did it again. It was horrendous. I was so scared. Why? What was the play? I don't remember. All I know is that I was a cashier. Okay. And, like, got, like. I'm pretty sure I got, like, a two. Like, line, like, solo, and I was, like, shitting my pants. Like, actually, it was. It was terrible. And then I also. I did choir and then, um. During those ages of, like. Middle school was also when I, like, started experiencing, like, bullying, and then, like, everything just got a little dark that I got so, like. My anxiety got so bad, and I became, like, so, um. Just, like, shy and, like, um. such an introvert that singing became something that was like so scary and like too vulnerable and so um i just realized that i really didn't didn't like um standing on a stage in front of my school and but now you're looking like a fool but now you're standing in front of thousands of people oh yeah and i i fucking love it how does that happen i don't i have no idea how does a kid who is struggling to sing at a talent show or in a school musical yeah end up singing in front of thousands of people fearlessly i don't know i think it's just the universe um confidence um also like writing my songs and like loving them and knowing that every single person in the crowd is there for me and because that they like connect with um the stuff and that you know the words that i wrote i feel like that i all of my confidence truly comes from my fans i think yeah you have really good fans yeah how much of how much of your fans seep into your head when you're writing an album um they used to all the time i think when i was starting this i would always um be like okay like what what's something that they would want to hear what's what's something like what are the things that they like from me um you know what what songs would i was just always um having them in the back of my mind like writing the songs for them but i think over time like now i really just like write for myself and i know that i have such an amazing like relationship with them that because i love it and it's me that they're gonna like it and i love it either way and so i try not to think about like anything other than other okay sometimes though like i do always go into sessions thinking about how songs are going to sound live so i guess it's technically kind of thinking about them because i'm always like thinking about okay like how how do we make this you know be something that's going to be really cool to experience live i always think about that now yeah i mean that's what yeah i mean that's what i'm trying to think about arena artists think about yeah it's true it's like if you otherwise if you're you can be the kind of artist where your audience sits down and watches you sing or you can be the kind of artist where they stand up and sing with you or sing at you even yeah you know yeah so those are different kinds of objectives i think it's hard not to somewhat think about what would the fan base be like in this moment yeah you know but that said it's really interesting we'll get to it yeah i mean i think it's really interesting i think it's really interesting we'll get to it the the last ep and this one that's coming out is a feels like a departure in many ways from some of the kinds of songs that you started when you were you know when you're first out here and so that it's a journey that you can hear your audience having to go through yeah to to understand who you are but let's go back to okay so you know you're uh you're in a school musical of some sort and you're in a school musical of some sort and you're in a school musical of some sort and community theater whatever it is two lines and then you you give up the performing what's the journey from that to you know posting tiktoks in a cafeteria um yeah i mean there was just like a few years and i got i went to high school and um yeah i mean i was just like i feel like kind of just like shy and not really doing much and then then i ended up posting that video so there wasn't really much going on i that like i think luckily though like because i moved so much like the the people that i went to high school with didn't see like you know um me looking like a fool in like choir like you know um whatever play that we did did you look like a fool in choir i felt like a fool which i feel like that's like that's like more important i don't know i don't know i do remember there was like one point though like we were rehearsing for like the the christmas like um is it called like recital or yeah whatever christmas thing and um my like solo came up and like i had like a voice crack and then everyone started laughing and i was like oh my god that like i want to die um but yeah and so i ended up like leaving that school and then going to a completely different town new jersey and starting fresh and they didn't know about the voice crack no they didn't know about the voice crack they didn't know that i sang the weird thing is like you know yeah even even if you were in a situation where your kid was singing in a choir and a recital and their voice cracked and people laughed in the in the crowd it isn't necessarily even like my guess is like the parents and the kids and the whatever who are sitting there now this is like old man perspective it feels like but it just be them being like oh that's cute and like kind of like and then like moving on from it and then it's like but to you when you're the one performing you know i can imagine that trying to absorb that moment feels a lot more weighted than yeah i know what nobody else remembers that moment oh yeah well it stuck with me i was horrified did you ever take voice lessons uh no you just had it naturally um i don't know maybe i think the one thing that i heard all the time that made me question if i you know either just love to sing or if i actually could was the fact that everyone was always like you have a unique voice is what they would always say like my parents like when i would say at home they'd just be like oh great like your voice is really unique and like i feel like that's just like one way to like you know like you know like to like kindly you know let a person down a little bit but um yeah even like my choir um teacher she told me i didn't have the right nose to sing or something weird so it was just like i don't know all i knew that is that i loved it and i didn't make my own ears bleed when i opened my mouth and so um yeah but i never did like lessons and stuff both of those two things you mentioned yeah are two of the essential ingredients for a successful pop star is that your voice is unique because you can't teach tone and that's what pops yeah you know like you can't teach tone yeah whatever you say about it and the other thing is is look when you if you have a nasal tone of some of any sort yeah that's going to cut through a record in a way that you can't eq out you can't like that listen go listen to all these great people and i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think that's one of the reasons why i think it's like barbara streisand who wouldn't touch her nose because of how her voice sounded with her nose or like you know michael jackson or any of these people who had like like famously that's what where you tunnel your you focus your tone and it's like you can't teach that so those two things like those your teacher or your parents didn't under maybe they didn't understand it if they think they were letting you down yeah if i meet a kid who has that now i'm like you are super lucky now it's like a a chance you know because you can't teach those things um okay so you you do this that you know uh you're 17 years old you start posting something people are like hey i like this what's the journey from hey i'm gonna leave home and move to la and do all that how does it go from how fast does it go from i'm posting this to tiktok to i'm moving to los angeles um probably a few months um i just like i milked the shit out of it and i realized that oh i can actually get money and then i realized like what like that it was possible to go to like la and like which that was just something that was just such an like impossible dream like the idea of like just like being in hollywood it was just so impossible and to me it was just things that happened like in movies um but then i was like wait i actually think i could probably make a little bit of money and then like buy that plane ticket and then covid hit and i was like out of school and i was stuck at home and i didn't know how long i was gonna be like we all were gonna have to like be forced to like be home and i didn't know yeah i didn't know how long it was gonna last and i just i bought a ticket in like the middle of the night and i was like i'm gonna be home and i'm gonna be home and i'm gonna be home and i'm gonna and i left like i ran away from home um at like 4 a.m and um yeah it was just like the cops were after me apparently like it was this whole thing but um yeah i like i made it out here and then shortly after i ended up getting signed with like winter records this this is wow there's like a few details that were skirted over there yeah but you leave at four in the morning but you buy the plane and you buy a plane ticket on your phone or something. - On my phone, yeah. It was so unfortunate. that night yeah and you didn't tell your parents you just left no yeah i think they had um a feeling that i was gonna run away and so they i don't know what i've tried to run away so many times in my life like um yeah but they had a feeling and so they like took they took all like my suitcases and like hid them from me and so i like threw like every like clothing item that i could in like six old school bags that i had um yeah and i left without them them knowing it was really scary and i looked like crazy i'm like four nine like running around like um the airport with like you six bags yeah and is this newark what airport are you flying out of or is it philly where are you philly yeah didn't the gate agent say like hey lady this is you're you're trying to bring six bags on this like how do you get how does i'm pretty sure like i like i'm pretty sure i like checked them i like kept two and then i like checked the rest but they probably were like they probably didn't end up checking them because who's just like checking like you stuff i really actually look so sketched on that i'm like thinking about it but it was like so impulsive too and so last minute that i couldn't get a one way i had to get a flight like with a stop and i think i was somewhere in like i don't know where i stopped maybe like maybe like somewhere in like texas or something and that was that was scary when like i like i got off the plane and then like i took my phone off of airplay mode and then i'm just getting like at that point my parents realized that i was gone and i was just getting like blown up with did you say i'm gone i'm never coming back kind of thing um i honestly i don't even know if i like responded all i remember is they're like like i had like they basically tracked down what flight i was on and then like they're actively like who are like officers like looking for me and i remember like like just like running being like i just need to get on this this plane i just need to get on the plane were you 18 at that point no i was 17 yeah wow yeah that's wild where were you gonna stay when you got to la um okay so i had a boyfriend at the time who i met on social media and um he ended up moving into um he was like a part of like one of like the first like content houses in in la and so the high pass stuff right yeah it was called like the um the sway house it was just a bunch of like 17 18 19 year old boys living in this like mansion bel-air um i don't know why i thought that that was you know a good place to run away too honestly that was just as scary but um no yeah i went there and then i ended up um i think it like a year of me like living in these airbnbs and having to like move around all of la like for um for like months because i couldn't get a place yet that's insane i mean those content houses as you said were obviously a couple of them have created some amazing talent that has come out and the focus on the music aspect of it what um when you showed up to this house where there are a bunch of presumably idiot dudes running around like you know like i think we all were like like whenever you're at 17 or 18 and you can live in a house in bel-air that you're probably just running around like a maniac how how are you uh you get off the plane you're fresh into la how soon till you were like hey i'm here for music um i think that was that was always my intention so um i'm before yeah that was always my intention i think um i reached out to someone in the space don't exactly remember who and i was like um i really want to get in the studio and so i ended up um i had like one like test session at this like studio like just to see and then i went there like every day um yeah who is uh i mean it's obviously jayden was the person you came out you know and you know you guys had a hit together oh yeah yeah um and was he already established in the music business at that point i mean i know who he is through certain co-writers but yeah he was he was already doing them music then and um yeah he was already doing music then and so um i ended up going to the studio that he was like working out of i think where are you getting the songs to sing at that point so the first session um that i ever did i was like given like a bunch of just like records to just like cut um which i didn't even know that that was like a thing i was like oh my god there's songs that are already written and you just want me to like sing them um and so did you like that it was odd but um again i was just so new so i was like yeah i'm also like my first time like recording and like working in a studio like official one in la you know not one in a closet and so i was just like yeah i'm just gonna do it and um so kind of like warmed me up into recording um and then yeah but i did that's the thing like i never yeah i didn't i didn't like it it's just like how do you feel connected to a song when it's like not yours to begin with um yeah it got me singing that's when i learned that i cannot record with autotune it's impossible really so from the jump and that makes sense because i never used it growing up i don't know if we had the software to like to have autotune like while recording um but yeah so that's when i was like yeah i can't i can't record with autotune i can't record with really anything on my voice probably other than like the slight like verb or else i get like it's a nightmare are you still like that to this day yeah i can't i think you i when i'm like cutting like my actual like lead vocals like we keep it really dry some verb if anything no tune um it just doesn't work well with my voice at all i bend a lot and i think it like loses the tone and it just it sounds weird and it freaks me out but then like sometimes like if i'm doing like these weird like ad libs or like post like belty stuff i like like crazy iq to where it sounds like i'm screaming through like a guitar ramp a guitar amp and like it just like i like distortion when it's like needed but like actual vocals like no i can't have anything on it nmpa is our lead sponsor yet again what is the national music publishers association what do publishers have to do with songwriters anyway well unlike artists who can be unsigned artists there is no such thing as an unsigned writer you can be a self-published a co-published or a published writer publishers only make money if songwriters make money so nmpa goes and fights for you they go to congress they go and support the community they fight dsps to get you paid more that's what they do they fight for you and they fight for this podcast so thank you for fighting for songwriters nmpa thank you for fighting for us too how soon after your first time in a session in a studio like that till you know now you're speaking like somebody who's been doing it for 40 years you know like how soon after that experience you're like oh i don't want to sing without a tune this is actually how i want like how how natural were you at at manipulating the session to work for you your voice i think um i think right away i really knew what worked for me and what i liked and what i didn't like and i knew what i wanted i think at first it was really hard for me to be vocal and honest because i just really believed that everyone kind of knew better than me but when it came to how um i was recording i was pretty like yeah i think like after i think i probably like tried to record like one line on that like pitch record and i was like take the auto tune off right now do you remember what that pitch record was um um yeah it was it was it was so it was it was really cringe is um it actually was like it was it's yeah and to your credit you've been able you know like i was saying i'm so happy my first yeah 150 songs are not available for anyone to hear and here you are recording and within a very short amount of time like people are hearing you like you were able to a lot of people release that cringe song yeah and then they're having to figure out what to do with that cringe song that's now like forever in the yeah in the world you know how do you go from that to being like i want to that's not what i want i want to be like this i want to be like that how is it that you narrow down your because this is all before a song has ever come out you know so you're going through this artist development by yourself or with you know whatever person you're working with at the time yeah how do you define your artistry so well at that time um i don't know i think that i was like going to the studio recording these songs and then i kind of realized like i'm leaving feeling unfulfilled because what satisfies what satisfies me the most is when i'm like sitting down and like creating things it's just like the art of actually creating the song and like letting your feelings like out is why i do music and so that's when i started going in there and being like just give me like an instrumental or let me just sit at the piano even though i'm really bad at doing it and just let me like write for hours or let me just go in the booth and like have you know a guitar loop going on for you know an hour and just let me like with headphones like i would just like freestyle if that like makes sense like i would just yeah for like every day i would all i would want to do is just like sit in the booth close my eyes and just like spew like random stuff and that's kind of how like my first song ended up being a thing it was like a 30 minute freestyle after like it was 30 minutes long and um it was so raw and like i was like crying and um and yeah lyrically melodically what were you when you freestyle you're doing you're just all of it it's just like it sounds like so weird but it like um i just close my eyes and like just like really like become so so open and try not to like like think about it like when i'm like sitting down and like actually like writing a song like okay yeah usually how everything just like comes about is when i don't think and i just like feel and i just like it just like comes i don't know how to explain it you just have to be like really open you can't care like don't have like boundaries and yeah i just like close my eyes and then i guess subconsciously whatever i'm feeling it'll just like come out and then um it inspires things it's it's always different but yeah i just i don't know which song did that become the one that was 30 minutes of freestyle my very first one pain your first song wait hold on a minute your first 30 minute rant in a studio where you're not sure exactly you're going in there you're just feeling has 40 plus million streams on spotify yeah i mean of course like we we tweaked it we had we brought in like um a songwriter that you know helped make it like better but yeah that was like um yeah that is wild yeah it's it's a really bad song though you think so i think it's i think it's terrible but it's like it's so real it's so real and just like knowing like where it came from and like how it happens like it's like what makes a good song actually i don't know i feel like it it varies for me um what makes a good song is if i actually want to listen to it and you can't listen to it i don't want to i don't want to listen to that that's some profound stuff man it is hard to write a song that has a million streams oh yeah you know and then when you start thinking like that's you grew up you know basically in a philly suburb that's like philly 40 times over like you know that's an insane amount of streams yeah for a song that was by accident um how soon you know uh from the experience of doing that to signing a record deal with warner records how did those things happen i mean people post on social media all the time they want a record deal they want a record deal but yeah you know what are the odds of that how does it go from that to a record deal yes so um i was signed with a social media like talent management thing and i'm pretty sure at the time they like were creating this like jv label with warner and so like like anyone that was signed to this like talent agency i mean this social media management thing whatever it was um that wanted to do music they were they could like be signed to this like jv label like with warner and so um as soon as i started getting in the studio they i was it was already kind of like in the talks and i was like this is what i want to do so it was um in the talks but i was just like yeah but i don't want to sign with the the jv i want to be with actual warner and so i think that's kind of what i'm doing right now i'm just like i'm just like i'm just like i'm just i think i don't really remember it so long ago but um it also was during covid so i like i signed my my first ever record deal like on zoom and it was right before yeah right before pain i think so we like released my first single with warner but um yeah it was and honestly i remember being like it was really messy because then like i had to like get out of a contract and it was a little dodgy what was going on but um that i was able to end up just signing with the with the big dogs they let me go the uh there there are a lot of people who signed out of their respective tiktok worlds but when you signed the the buzz was really positive in the business yeah because of where you were coming from as being an honest writer yeah so right off the bat you know once warner signed you the the the buzz amongst the songwriting community was that this this woman's really good yeah when did you end up meeting you know maddie and you know i'll see shout out maddie um and uh you know when did you start meeting you know some of the collaborators that you really dove in with um so at first i was working out of this studio i think for like a good year i was working out of um sound factory and um and we ho and then i think the first time that i got in an actual session with like producers um i believe was was with evan blair and evan blair um introduced me into all these uh writers and stuff like like maddie and um so many amazing people that i'm like so blessed to have met um and then we started working on um my first ep together yeah evan's evan's super talented you know the the jayden song's just so big yeah when you have songs that have you know tens of millions and then you have songs that have different things you know how did it change how you were viewing your own career when you started seeing you know back in those kinds of streams um i was just i was so excited about that song because that was the first song i've ever had that i heard on the radio that was what was really sick to me because that is growing up that's like my first song i've ever had that i heard on the radio that's like the dream you know like you want to sing like sell out shows and you want to be on the radio um i don't think i ever was driven by streams i don't really like to look at it i don't really care um i don't that was really wasn't anything that really mattered to me to this day i really could care less on my favorite songs or my like lowest streams i don't really care about my favorite songs or my favorite streams i don't really care about the streamed ones and so um but that song specifically like it did a lot like we performed on um like and Jimmy Kimmel and our song was on the radio and it was just it was really cool that that's like what stuck out to me the most I don't think um I like kept track of the the streaming stuff you guys had a really public breakup is there yeah viewing the viewing your old a song like that does it change when your personal life has changed do you listen to the song differently well I don't really listen to this you don't just listen to your own music I don't know I like okay I do now um but yeah I don't I really listen to that song now I I think it's beautiful it's amazing it did so much for me it was an amazing experience um I think just because I ended up like dating him and like it went terribly like I'm never gonna allow that to taint the music um like I have the I have our plaques like in my house it's like you know I just like take it for what it is it's a song it's beautiful and um we did really cool stuff with it um yeah i'm not listening to it though uh i hope you're miserable until you're dead is is a really interesting song to me and i was saying this before you walked in that for years i've always been under the impression that and i and i say this a lot in sessions like you want the listener to be the protagonist you're singing the song of the listener that's who listens to it and i was in a in a session with with three women not too long ago and they were like yeah we don't feel that way i was like well what do you mean you know this is just there's a songwriter rules you know she's like yeah but we think of it from the perspective of the singer not the perspective of the listener and it really it really fucked with me like like it was like i lost sleep over it like years for years i've been like you know is it okay to have songs where you say this exact lyric is so great yeah and i've been so afraid to write this song in like a session because i'm like well i don't know can you have it where the listener is like you're you're you know i hope you're miserable until you're dead is like the perfect lyric to describe this exact thing where if for a lot of people it's cathartic to hear this song yeah and for a lot of people you're listening to it from a different perspective and i think i've been wrong all this time and it's like it's when i was i was going through your discography and i was just like damn this is the perfect example of how it's done well yeah when you or do you listen to it like you're the singer i listen to it like i'm i'm the singer yeah but there's i don't think that there's a right or wrong answer i think everyone perceives music differently um but also too like i can i can listen to music and just like feel it without like giving it much like thought and being like oh like you know i really like relate to this like sometimes i can just take like um yeah a song and like you know not feel like i'm the singer but you know i like the song it really just depends but i think most of the time um yeah i think personally i i'm like okay i'm the person that's feeling this tell me about the day that you wrote i hope you're miserable until you're dead funny enough this one actually maddie wrote it um i don't know if you've seen it but i don't know if you've seen it but i don't know if i wasn't a part of the session and i think that's why um it's not my favorite which is really funny how it like worked out but um when i was writing this ep i had like a booklet of like all of my song ideas and just like everything that i was like going through and then i was like doing sessions and then like when i couldn't do sessions like people were still like writing for me people that i like trusted and um maddie and evan i'm pretty sure they they worked on this song based off of my like book and we were i forget what happened but he ended up playing it for me and he was like you have we have to use it we have to cut it so um tweaked like a little bit of the the um the lyrics but yeah i i recorded it and i think because i was feeling that way um at the time i i sang it and it was believable um but yeah it's kind of amazing the timing of this you know you're coming out of covid everyone's at home and now people you're you're going you're you go in signing a record deal on zoom yeah come out of covid with a fan base yeah what's it like to when was it after covid did you realize oh this isn't the world that i that i was in before i don't know i think shortly after um i don't really remember the exact like thought process that i had um but all that i knew was just like music was what i really wanted to do and i wanted to do everything in my power to break away from the whole social media world um yeah just simply too because i just wanted to be like taken seriously because music has always been like like my first love my passion um i never like joined social media and i don't know i don't know if i've ever been in a relationship where i've been like i've never been in a relationship where i've ever been like i've never been like i've never been in a relationship with the intention of being like an influencer you know so die first is that kind of song i feel like that's like you know that's the that that's what i'm talking about like that's the kind of lyric that just gets me personally it's just so well done yeah tell me about creating die first yeah i made that with maddie too she's she's incredible um but that song is just it's all about just the universal fear that i think we all have um just that yeah the fear is just losing the people that you love and the fact that death itself is a mercy rather than grief and um yeah losing someone that you really care about um again made that with evan that was for my first album um but yeah also tired of california is like the anybody who lives in la yeah and who didn't grow up here yeah has this feeling of like oh this is where you're at you know and you can't really leave it once you're in it oh yeah um yeah it's so crazy because i felt like that for years but now i like i love it here yeah yeah i think i well i mean yeah obviously i love it too i think it's the idea of the superficial stuff that you can't get around yeah you know when you know the legal toxins it's like i feel like that's the lyric that's like yeah it's not just it's like the that can even just be the you know you go to certain places and you're like oh man this if i'm part there's a that famous groucho marx quote you don't want to be part of a club that's willing to have you as a member oh yeah you know you walk in you're like oh man do i live here too but uh you know all right so let's move on to to to the next era you know um how's a teenage girl era uh even then this is like this feels like we're starting to move to a a different sound you know what was the choice of moving sonically how did you start saying well i'm gonna you know you can hear the gears turning yeah um confidence i think the more i'm making these songs in the studio the more that i'm being very like vocal about um what i want and so i think over time each song just became more me um and so naturally i guess that that's kind of just what like shifted the sound itself um but how's a teenage girl definitely that project i really prioritized um making the music that i wanted to make rather than you know it was for the arts not the charts so oh that's close actually i someone said that recently and i was like wait that like really pertains to a lot of what i do but yeah i just like i released my first album people loved it it was sick and then i just got more and more confident about my my decision making and um songwriting and just like sonically like what world i was i was trying to build um and what i wanted to say but yeah when you create a sonic world how much of it is influence how much of it is copying how much of it is creating um i think that 10 is always going to be like 10 is always going to be like 10 is always going to be like influence and inspiration from like wherever you get it that's how every idea like blossoms and becomes a thing is being inspired by something that's already made um and then yeah 90 of it is just creating what i what i feel i'm a very visual person and so um yeah when i'm like writing a song or like trying to put together a project like it it's just like so important to like word build and it almost feels like i can like create like a movie in my mind if that makes sense and a lot of like my favorite songs i found from film itself and because like just like the the cinematic um scenes like that you could like place behind a song i feel like it just makes it so it like sticks with you when you listen to it later and it builds this like feeling and so i try and always think from like that um point of view and so yeah when i'm like in a session i kind of already have an idea of the world that i i'm trying to build and then that ends up like bleeding into like what words i use and it's like so simple like if i'm trying to build like this like dark dark gothic visual world i'm not gonna use a word in a song like um sunshine sunshine or even like words like destiny like it's just like there's so many like i have like a word book that i'm like you can't it's it's just so weird and like even down to like the the like simple like sound effects it's like it's so important because i don't know i like music is like a form of art and some of my favorite songs are the ones that i can like listen to and i can like close my eyes and like be there and like feel it like you want to feel it you don't like don't only like want to like relate to the words but like you need to feel it and um also too like you can really you can hear i feel like when a singer you can hear on a record when a singer doesn't believe what they're singing and isn't in it and you can hear it when a singer isn't in it i feel like it's it's so obvious like if someone is just at least for me if someone's just like singing words on a piece of paper and so being like visual when i'm creating these songs it helps me like even if it's something that i'm like it's real like the lyrics are real to me but building this world in my head when i like sit down and record it i close my eyes i have to close my eyes every time i record because i need to physically put myself in that world and like be it in order for it to like be on the record if that makes sense so the whole like visual creative world building is honestly what makes every song i mean you can tell because you make this aesthetic around each single that comes out you're you obviously dive into that um what are five movies that inspire you oh i love cry baby um that was really fun yeah um johnny depp version nice yeah it's so good um all like tim burton stuff like i was really inspired by like edward scissorhands um girl interrupted um this is like a crazy take but purple rain like prince's movie it's terrible acting but it's so good um there's i'm like blanking out right now but there's like there's so many i have like a huge like list of like all my my favorite movies and that's gonna be like trolls um frozen too um uh are you gonna are you gonna act do you think that there's a natural progression from what you're doing because your music videos and because you're like you're so much as it's it's not surface level performance you're not just singing at the camera doing a regular music video yeah is the natural progression for you to do movies to do tv to do theater i think that would be cool to like do a movie i think um i have absolutely no experience and wouldn't know what the fuck i'm doing and i think one thing about acting is that you have to like let go of like all forms of um embarrassment because it is just like humiliating um a little bit and i don't know if i can do that yet but i think that would be cool i do know like my dream is to like direct to like write a movie and like direct like i think that i would much prefer to um tell a story and um be behind the camera but i'm not like opposed to acting it's just like really scary i don't know it's terrifying you just gotta like yeah how can the woman who leaves a a notebook for other people to sift through feel vulnerable about acting like how you're so vulnerable to be able to write the lyrics you write i know you're super honest in your lyric writing and the somehow acting seems more vulnerable to you it does i don't know why i think i think i have a probably make you a very good actor whenever you do that so there you go i have i have like a fear of like it's really hard for me to do something new for the first time and i think just the overall like i get very cringed out and very embarrassed really easily and so i think the idea of me like stepping on set in like saying lines for the first time like with people that are have been acting like since birth and like you know like directors that have like worked with so many people like being like a newbie is like that's terrifying like i feel like i would feel like naked and afraid and i yeah i don't know it's so scary i think there are probably as many directors who want to work with somebody who isn't jaded and that who haven't done a lot of things who are vulnerable in their lyrics how did this next this most recent era come to be um i just really want to like make music that i love listening to um not that i haven't before but i um i think for a little bit i felt a little bit um lost in like my purpose and i wanted to kind of like figure out how to like regain my my love for music and that was really me going back to like my core and and you know like being listening to all of my favorite songs and then letting myself be inspired by it and um i've never like written fully as as much as i have like on this new project and it is just like confidence and like just for once i feel like i had like such a clear sonic vision for this um for this new project and i think it's just like it's just like it's for this album and i was just like kind of like open and like you know i feel like yeah i didn't allow myself to be afraid of doing like things new and um fearing like failure like i just wanted to go in and like make music that like i love and um have fun doing it and so i feel like that's just kind of it just like became i think that's something where like i feel like the best thing and things that are just like so beautiful it just like happens without like a reason um yeah i just let go and then um made my favorite music of all time yeah you and cj and you know you guys have uh yeah you know really become a an amazing team i know we keep talking about cj he's he's killing it right now and you guys have something really special happening yeah all right we're gonna go to rapid fire i'm gonna just list like a few things to talk about uh i want to know a few things are you happy so happy yes that's great yeah uh what's what's a message you'd give to new New Jersey right now. Be nice. What is one thing musically you've learned from CJ? Probably is that like. When you're creating music like you can really just. Be so free like there's no rules you can make whatever you want like I could like go in to the studio with him like tomorrow and say I want to make like a metal song. And it's like just the art of making music itself is so beautiful and like you never know what's going to come out of it and so he's taught me a lot about just like freedom and just yeah the love with it. What's the lowest point of your career? The lowest point probably is. Probably like singing songs that I don't feel connected to or like. Yeah I think probably back when I was like releasing things that I didn't feel like my soul wasn't satisfied with I think that's when I like lost myself. How did you come back from that? Parade helped kept singing started. I'm writing even more. I'm just. I'm very spiritual and I have faith I don't know if I belong to any religion but I'm very spiritual and have like. Yeah I believe that there's something like much bigger and that like my talents don't come from myself it's like beyond that. What's a lyric you've written that people don't talk about that is special. Oh. Um. It can be from this hint it could be from the new EP. From the new EP. Oh. Okay. There's there's like I'm like trying to go through all my lyrics. Um. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. One of my favorite songs. On Jesus loves the prima donna is. Is a song venom. It was like my favorite song ever. But it's crazy but the first verse lyrics are like my absolute favorite but I like my roses dying I watch as my heart grows black he only keeps me crying and I keep on coming back and I feel like it's just like. It's just a perfect like poem almost of how it feels to just be. In this like. Toxic relationship with something that's destroying you but you almost like it. Um. But yeah I like sometimes you could like read. My lyrics and it just it feels like a poem. Yeah that is. That's great. I'm gonna steal that I'll give you credit I might even I'll cut you in on the song but. Uh. What's your relationship with social media now. Um. A lot better. I don't think that one can ever get used to. Um. Like. Seeing so many. Comments. And opinions about you. But I've really learned. You have to really. Feel like seven years. I've grown thicker skin. I could. You know. See whatever I love posting now I love talking to my fans. I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do that. Um. I like sharing things and so I feel like. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. Um. of a stage and singing to like so many people i think she would throw up and cry that i'm opening up for the neighborhood i mean that's crazy because i was like a die hard fan um but yeah i don't know what was it like to open for the neighborhood i haven't yet but what is it going to be like down for the neighborhood i don't know hopefully like sick i mean it's gonna be like really wicked i don't know i um i think i'm like more excited to um watch them for the first time i've never seen them in culture that's been like a dream for me and so i think um just being able to like go and watch them i feel like that is gonna be the most surreal thing but um yeah i think it's gonna be really fun me and my band are like really excited and it's just a really like amazing opportunity that i'm like so grateful for to even like be able to be on a stage that that big i'm just gonna like have fun but i'm just so excited to see them play the show jesse's great i know we're biased because he's been on here but he's he's great um what's advice you'd give to an artist who just moved out here you know a week ago because they just left home um stay true to yourself i think we all kind of have this internal like voice in our head and this gut feeling just hold on to that as long as you can and not let yourself get like jaded and lost in in the industry or like influenced by anyone else's opinions just always stay connected with um the deep deeper part of you that um makes music in the first place um yeah i think just create like caring about um the art and what it does for you personally is that's the biggest thing what about what about your parents what would you say to them right now um thank you for giving birth to me and um yeah i feel like i couldn't have done it without them honestly everything the good bad the ugly led me here and so um i guess deep down i just hope that they're they're proud yeah it's amazing you know had you moved out here five years before you did it was it was a very it would be all singles single single singles yeah which it you kind of caught like the tail end of that but we've kind of moved to okay well it's about world building yeah and you're part of a record label that is supportive of you going down these artistic paths that is really exciting to watch yeah you know thank you for doing this podcast it as i'm watching and like going and listening to the last two eps having listened to everything before and seeing where you're headed and you're very young obviously very experienced at this point but you have you can see where this trajectory is going creatively and artistically and i'm just so happy that you're part of a system that is allowing you to grow because it's really good thank you are you part of this album i'm so proud i'm i like yeah i've never really loved um my music as much as this and i didn't know that it could feel this way and so um it's yeah really beautiful it makes me excited to keep doing this i love it yeah well then we'll have this conversation on the next album yeah there you go thanks for doing it thank you for having me and that's a wrap that was uh nessa barrett i never met nessa before so so lovely uh you know it's crazy it's crazy to just hear something you know someone who's been doing it since they were 17 what to move away from home when you're 17 and to just get into the music industry that way could you imagine and then and then get famous on social media it's a wild thing the coolest part about her story for me is like i feel like she's just she's been doing it since she was 17 but there's like a world where it feels like she's also just starting totally which is so exciting and the new music is so good it's like very very cool yeah the mistake i think people make when they look at somebody young is that their experience is isn't equal to their age so like people think ah well they're they're 23 so they're they're young or they're they're but you don't realize them now she had a record deal when she was 17 six years of professional work you know somebody who graduated college college they'd be like you know 30 at that point so it's like you know she's done a lot in the music business so far i think it's also interesting because it's clearly earlier on her journey and most people when you interview them on early in their journey they don't have anything to talk about yeah but she's clearly gone through so much stuff that there's a lot she can't talk about still yeah and that's really interesting it'd be curious to you know when she comes on next to to see you know how much of the baggage that she's currently carrying because you can tell there's still some some lifting going on how much over time will obviously her story will always be her story but yeah you know over time how comfortable she will be opening up about all that stuff but i mean you know to be her age and have written as many songs as she's written you know it's like it's she's only gonna get better you're only gonna get more confident you're only gonna get better at your craft and so it's just i mean she's already writing incredible songs and it's trial by fire i mean you you start off at at that age and then you're suddenly writing with big songwriters big producers and all this stuff so she's become a really good songwriter learning from the best but man i mean i don't know how old were you when you got your first cut not 17 yeah i mean outside of your band and stuff yeah i mean i was doing the band stuff but like the first cut in the in the outside of the band was probably yeah like when i was getting close to 30 you know late 20s something like that you know that's just this is hard to fathom like she's crazy you know also just being famous when you're that age is like a whole nother you know the whole nother world i mean obviously we can't relate to any of that yeah i think you see it but it's different when you feel it oh my gosh 100 yeah i literally it's unimaginable you know but you but how much you learn from that as well yeah she's become a very well adjusted person considering all the shit yeah and all the public like mental health stuff and all that like and the music industry and and and and and she's like pretty normal seeming you know like that was that's really impressive i also it was really fun to to see how excited she got when when we started talking about kind of getting into the nitty-gritty of the craft even after the cameras went off she kind of like started delving a little bit more into the process and you can tell she just loves music and how much of a part of her life that is which you know as as songwriters and producers that's what we love you know she recorded this new album in three weeks and that's and i wish we didn't talk about in the podcast so there's some exclusive content right there but you know the idea of recording an album in three weeks is what every songwriter producer artist wants and yet very few people do it yeah and it takes some guts to like find your crew and say this is the crew that we're gonna do it let's just buckle down and and hunker down and do it an album is just like it's it's like a it's like a blood test it's like it's like a a snapshot of who you are at this time yeah and if you take too long it's like that oldest song starts to become something that's a different human it's like that blood test is irrelevant you know if it's too old like you it's only just a snapshot so you know it's doing an 11 song album in three weeks and then and mixing it mastering it have a release date by the time that comes out you know you can already be working on your next album or have an sketch out the next idea and that'll be your next blood test yeah yeah well cool man that was good work great great episode can't wait to have her back on there we go you