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First, most people have a uniform, not like a literal uniform, but you know, like the five things in your closet that you always reach for and use those because you know they're going to work in pretty much any situation, like that favorite shirt or the jeans or the sunglasses. Now, I'm constantly, for example, wearing a certain set of t-shirts and polo shirts. It's like my go-to. Well, Secovas is one of them. Okay, so Secovas is awesome. They're comfortable right out of the box. There's no painful break-in period. You put them on and they just work. Whether I'm dressing up for an event or heading to the studio or traveling for the weekend, they fit the occasion without ever having to think about it. It's one of the things I appreciate about Secovas. They've handcrafted their boots using more than 200 individual steps with premium leathers, but they don't feel precious. They are made to be worn. 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Now, as I've been saying, this case is not about you. It is not about your dyspepsia at having to deal with annoying toddlers. It is not even about the awfulness of postpartum depression. It is not about selfish women or about the fact that you're a woman. It is not about the awfulness of postpartum depression. It is not about abortion or the fall of Western civilization. This case is about a fact pattern. And you should know the fact pattern, because if we would like to come to a consensus as Americans, as opposed to just beating each other with pool noodles, the facts ought to matter at least a little bit. And then I will give you where I think the jury ought to come down on this one. Plus, we get to Lake America, Gavin Newsom's wine cellar, and President Trump's presidential rankings. This is The Ben Shapiro Show. Great irritations with all of the coverage surrounding Lindsey Clancy's case is that so little of it focuses in on the actual facts of the case. And this sort of stuff drives me crazy. The same thing happened in a sort of different way with George Floyd. The entire George Floyd case, the Derek Chauvin prosecution, none of it was predicated on the facts of the case. It was all based on narratives drawn from the case that had very little to do with the actual case. So you'll recall that in that particular case, there were narratives that were drawn about the nature of America's criminal justice system being biased against black people. And so, you know, there's a people. There are all sorts of takes about how America's systemic racism had led to the death of George Floyd. And then you looked at the facts of the case, and it didn't look like Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd. Didn't even look like he manslaughtered George Floyd. There was not even an accusation of racism in that case. And so if you were just looking at that case, the fact pattern of that case, and then you were looking at Americans going after each other, and then riots to the tune of $2 billion over that case, you would say this is nuts. And we are consistently doing this now in America. We are taking outstanding circumstances and circumstances that are few and far between incredibly rare with particular fact patterns. And then we are using them as ways to project our own dyspepsia with America and with our fellow Americans onto those cases. And it's inappropriate and it's wrong. Each one of these criminal cases deserves actual attention. Instead of us just jumping to the conclusions that we are looking for based on our priors, we should be looking at the fact pattern. So let's begin with filicide. So filicide, is when parents kill kids. Very uncommon. This is why I'm saying this. The reason I'm saying this is because when you try to project onto extraordinarily uncommon circumstances, your particular life circumstance, your point of view, America more broadly, the patriarchy, your experiences with your kids, you're doing it wrong. Filicide is very, very rare in the United States. And multiple filicide by mom is vanishingly rare in the United States. There are about 3.6 million births per year in the United States. There are some between 450 and 500 cases of filicide every year in the United States, which accounts for about 2.5% of all U.S. homicides annually. Most of them are by men. Most of them are single homicides. There are about 15 to 20 cases of multiple filicide, meaning multiple kids killed by a mom in the United States each year. Because they are so rare, that is why we know the names of people like Andrea Yates or Lindsay Clancy. Because it is not, in fact, a commonplace occurrence for a mom to kill multiple children. The reason I'm pointing this out again is because if you are taking away from Lindsay Clancy's case is that she is just like you, you are doing it wrong. Or if you are taking away from Lindsay Clancy's case that women be cray, generally, you are doing it wrong. And there are good studies that have been done on filicide and its connection to postpartum psychosis and other forms of mental illness. There was one from 2007 in the World Journal of Psychiatry. And it describes this phenomenon. It says, quote, Lesser threshold for hospitalization should be considered for mentally ill mothers of young children due to the possibility of multiple deaths from a filicide suicide. Factors which potentially merit psychiatric hospitalization include maternal fears of harming their child, delusions of their child's suffering, improbable concerns about their child's health, and hostility toward a despised partner's favorite child. Psychotic mothers who fear that their children may suffer a fate worse than death due to persecutory delusions should either be hospitalized or separated from their children. These mothers may be reluctant to share, their illusional ideals. Now, again, why am I reading that? Because so much of that seems to describe the fact pattern that we're actually looking at. As we'll discuss, Lindsay Clancy, either according to the prosecution, believed she should kill her kids because her kids were an obstacle to her killing herself, or according to the defense, she did so because a voice told her that she needed to kill her kids. Either way, one of the things that is interesting and fascinating about this case and the practice of psychiatry generally, psychiatry is extraordinarily imprecise. You can have a series of symptoms, and that series of symptoms can be put into a basket of categories. There are multiple diagnoses that can be made of any basket of symptoms, particularly when you're talking about complications arising from drug interactions. That is just a reality of psychiatry. As I say, when it comes to psychiatry, it is essentially a more sophisticated version of the shaman who's using various berries to treat various symptoms. It is trial and error. You have to determine, whether a symptom abates or whether it exacerbates. You then have to titrate up or titrate down. You have to determine whether you need a second medication in order to deal with secondary effects. Psychiatry is extraordinarily imprecise. Diagnosis is imprecise. Prognosis is imprecise. All of it is extremely imprecise, and that is complicated by the fact that unlike other health conditions, psychiatric conditions, because so many of them are internal, you can't see inside somebody's brain the way that you can just x-ray a leg, that means that very often you don't even know the internal psychiatric symptoms of a person who is under psychiatric care. They may be lying to you, right? study says mothers may be reluctant to share delusional ideas why because they're afraid the kids will be removed from them for example some lindsey clancy cases we'll discuss the defense is going to argue that actually lindsey clancy was not even telling her psychiatrist everything which again is not rare it is in fact quite common in normal psychiatry let alone postpartum psychosis or heavy drug interactions or suicidality and people are not always honest with their psychiatrists okay so in the lindsey clancy case the charges that were put before the jury were put before the jury by judge william sullivan and here is what he explained the
Speaker 2commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any mental disease or defect that may have existed did not deprive the defendant of her ability to behave as the law requires that is to obey the law okay so
Speaker 1under massachusetts law basically there are a few requirements in order to determine whether the insanity defense applies one she had to understand the nature of what she was doing for the insanity defense to fail she had to know what she was doing two she had to appreciate that what she was doing was wrong or you have to know that murder is wrong you can't think that murdering somebody is right at the time and or she has to be capable of conforming her conduct to the requirements of law now there are a series of potential verdicts that we'll get to in a minute but we'll get to that in a minute but we'll get to that in a minute but we'll get to that in a minute three men on the jury the four person is an older woman people are immediately again projecting their beliefs about the gender split in american politics onto this jury it's a heavy female jury therefore they're going to acquit i don't know i don't know what they're going to do because again the fact pattern here is very complex and also very vague right now she faces three counts of first-degree murder first-degree murder in massachusetts means that clancy intentionally killed her children with deliberate premeditation or under a prosecution's other theory with extreme atrocity or cruelty now there's no question extreme atrocity or cruelty is a part of this no question there's no way to read the 9-1-1 transcript and not have your heart break i mean it's truly devastating and as far as deliberate premeditation clearly there is planning but again the question is intent mentally ill people like truly mentally ill people cannot have the requisite amount of intent they can't have the so-called mens rea they can't if you are mentally ill to the extent that you can't determine right from wrong and that you're you're not capable of conforming your conduct to the requirements of law or understand the nature of what you're doing that's the insanity defense so if she's found guilty of first-degree murder mandatory sentence of life in prison with no possibility of parole if she's found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect she won't face prison time but she's not going to walk away i said this on the show last week and people are like well you know she theoretically could she's not going to walk away under massachusetts law there is no time limit for involuntary commitment at a mental health facility andrea yates similar case back in 2001 she drowned five of her children she eventually was acquitted she's still in a mental facility in 2026 so the judge is now offering sort of a chinese menu of possible charge options i don't like when judges do this by the way i think it probably ought to be legally barred if a judge is offering several duplicative charges in the attempt to get somebody to you know say yes to a conviction and then we'll figure out the charge later i just think that's bad prosecutorial practice but a couple of the other charge options that were added at the 11th hour include second degree murder in which the jury would have to find that lindsey clancy intentionally killed her children but without premeditation or extreme atrocity or cruelty again i'm not sure how that helps the prosecution because again the intent is the is the question and manslaughter which would require jurors to find that clancy caused her children's death through wanton or reckless conduct and again wanton or reckless conduct typically when it comes to manslaughter is like you were driving drunk we'll get into the entire timeline of what happened in the lindsey clancy case first let's talk about zip recruiter picture calling customer service about a missing order you navigate that ai menu you explain the problem you get transferred you explain the problem a second time at this point you put more work into locating the package than the company that actually shipped it in the first place and then somebody finally says let me track that down and they actually do that's 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sooner with zip recruiter four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter will get a quality candidate within the very first day try it for free at ziprecruiter.com dailywire that ziprecruiter.com dailywire meet your match on zip recruiter okay so now i want to get into the timeline of the case and then we'll get into the prosecution's case and the defense's case so the timeline of the case december 2016 lindsey clancy and patrick clancy are married about a year later their daughter cora is born in 2019 their son dawson is born and in 2022 callan is born so those are the three kids and these are very very small children now friends relatives co-workers teachers a nanny and patrick all described lindsey clancy before the psychiatric decline as attentive and organized and loving and active and very very involved with the kids after the birth of her last child callan apparently she started to go into significant mental decline in september 2022 she had massive increases in anxiety as her return to nursing approach she searched for psychiatric health and she was diagnosed with generalized anxiety september 15th her psychiatrist dr jennifer tufts prescribed sertraline the defense said that clancy's mood and agitation worsened with antidepressants the commonwealth emphasized contemporaneous notes did not document psychosis or mania now again as we will discuss not every symptom gets described to psychiatrists this is part of the problem with with insanity defense claims right is that not everything is well documented and also high anxiety can manifest in things that look like psychosis but aren't quite psychosis and aren't quite mania in october she started tele-healthing psychiatric treatment her notes and messages started reflecting anxiety sleep trouble guilt and feeling disconnected late october she had an adverse reaction to an ssri they then added lorazepam hydroxyzine and ron were also used now again as i said very often in psychiatry what will happen is that somebody is put on a medication they have an adverse reaction to the medication a secondary symptom arises and now in order to deal with that secondary symptom you put a new drug on the on the premises right you start taking more than one drug in october 25th she wrote about resentment that her older children prevented her from experiencing callen as though he were a first baby followed by a wish to feel love and connection november 16th she went to south shore hospital's emergency department for insomnia and she was prescribed trazodone and then a little bit later she connected with a psychiatric nurse practitioner named julie paul the intake documented severe anxiety insomnia and depression they added on fluoxetine trazodone mersazepine hydroxyzine buspirone lorazepam quiet quiet quietiapine all of these show up and again this is the it's very very difficult you're dealing here with brain chemistry the brain chemistry is very very difficult you're dealing here with brain chemistry is not well mapped it's just the reality in november 29 november 29th the end of the month there's a text suggesting that she'd become dependent on a benzo and on a benzodiazepine she started having suicidal thoughts on december 4th she contacted a suicide hotline on december 6th patrick expressed concern she was over medicated for the next couple of weeks family texts described sleep problems fear hopelessness medication reactions repeated attempts to obtain care and she was not well mapped it's just the reality her edinburgh post-natal depression scale was reported as 23 and later 17 those are both clinically significant again the way that you typically diagnose psychiatric conditions is an actual checklist and if you hit a certain number on the checklist then you are considered to have the condition as i say psychiatry is very very rudimentary i keep saying that because it's important for people to understand it people think that treating the brain is like treating other parts of the body it really is not at all in late december patrick later told investigators she had disclosed suicidal thoughts and she was not well mapped it's just the reality and thoughts of harming the kids several treating clinicians testified she denied homicidal intent or psychosis to them so again this goes to people don't tell their psychiatrists psychiatrists the truth all the time which informs some of the testimony as we'll see in just a second december 30th she went to massachusetts general hospital's emergency department and then entered mclean hospital voluntarily from january 1st to 5th she was on voluntary psychiatric hospitalization there dr leah goodhart testified that clancy was depressed and anxious had reported suicidal thinking and wanted help she did not show psychosis or mania during the admission denied a current plan identified the children's reasons to live and sought discharge and she was prescribed yet more trazodone and lorazepam she had follow-up with dr tufts january 6th she was taking a huge cocktail of drugs january 9th through 16th her device history her search history showed searches concerning drug interactions and sleep deprivation, psychosis symptoms, schizophrenia, hallucinations, intrusive thoughts, depression, bipolar disorder, and suicide. The prosecutors would later argue that she was basically searching up rationales that she could later use to defend against her actions. A defense would argue she was searching that because she was suffering from it. A January 20th query asked, can you treat a sociopath? The prosecution argued again that all of this showed self-monitoring and concealing planning. And the defense said, well, the reason that you are searching up hallucinations is because you're having them. The defense also elicited records of searches about carotid artery, cutting the throat, and disabling airbags. January 24th was the day of the murders, 2023. Cora, the oldest, attended a routine pediatric appointment. The family played in the snow and built a snowman. 4.13 p.m., Apple Max Activity examined the route from the home to 3V, that's a Kingston restaurant. The prosecution characterized this as calculating how long Patrick would be away. The defense noted route searches are routine when ordering food. At about 5.15 p.m., Patrick testified he left first for CVS and then for 3V to pick up the food. Before leaving, he saw Dawson eating, and he said Clancy sounded and acted normal. At 5.23 p.m., sorry, at 5.32 p.m., CVS surveillance showed Patrick entering the store. 5.33, there's an incoming call from Patrick to her, followed by a 14-second outgoing callback from Clancy while the phone remained locked. Apparently, she sounded normal, according to Patrick, but he recalled an impression she might be in the middle of something. 5.54, he showed up at the restaurant. 6.09, he returned home with the food. He found the primary bedroom door unlocked. He forced the entry. He saw blood and an open, broken window and looked outside. And Clancy was lying injured in the yard below. She, of course, was paralyzed from the waist down. She'd cut herself and she had jumped out the window. He asked where the children were and she indicated the basement. He found Dawson alone in a rear basement gym office area, shirtless and wearing a diaper. Cora and Callan were together elsewhere in the basement. Resistance bands were on or near their necks. Patrick removed the bands and began resuscitation at 6.11. He called 911. The 911 call is absolutely horrifying. The investigators immediately started an investigation January 25th. They seized all the materials. The children's toxicology was negative for sedation or poisoning substances. There was no evidence they'd been drugged. And she was charged February 7th, 2023, with three counts each of first-degree murder, strangulation or suffering, and assault and battery with a dangerous weapon. There were 21 days of testimony. There were some 85 witnesses. And we're going to go through some of the key witnesses here. Yesterday was the closing arguments. Lindsay Clancy herself did not testify before the jury. Now, again, that is not a rarity. Very often, the person at issue doesn't testify because they don't want to be subjected to cross-examination. And the jury was told you're not allowed to draw adverse inference from her decision not to testify. Again, her affect in the courtroom was a major issue. The jury was told it was a major issue because people were saying that she looked cold or disconnected. Again, it is unclear to me at this point. I assume she's still on a significant cocktail of drugs at this point. Now, we're going to go through the prosecution case. And so the prosecution basically argues here that Lindsay Clancy was profoundly depressed, but she was not psychotic. They argue that she knew exactly what she was doing, that she understood that it was wrong, and that she deliberately executed a plan to kill her kids and then commit suicide. The prosecution says that she was desperately unhappy and suicidal and that she had come to view her children as an obstacle to killing herself. So in that theory, killing the kids was part of a rational plan, right? Basically, if I kill the kids, then I can kill myself, which theoretically is different from a psychotic delusion in voices made me think that killing the kids was necessary or morally right. So they would need to establish that whatever her psychiatric problems, they did not have to process. So they would need to establish that whatever her psychiatric problems, they did not have to process. So they would need to establish that whatever her psychiatric problems, they did not have to process. So they would need to establish that whatever her psychiatric problems, they did not have to process. So they would need to establish that whatever her psychiatric problems, they did not have to process. So they would need to establish that whatever her psychiatric problems, they did not deprive her of criminal responsibility. So that is their case. 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So the prosecution witnesses included Patrick Clancy, who's her husband. He testified that Lindsay said she had heard a man's voice telling her to kill the kids. Again, the prosecution would argue and have expert witnesses argue that you
Speaker 3made this up later. This is afterward. But going back to that first part, she said she had thoughts of harming the kids. Is that correct? Yeah. And did she tell you whether or not she had specific thoughts of how she would harm the kids? No. And she didn't describe that as hearing this external voice telling her to harm the kids, correct? Correct. A few days after this, this happened, did you receive a phone call from the defendant while she was at Brigham and Women's Hospital?
Speaker 4I think it was like a week or so after, yeah.
Speaker 3And what did the defendant say at that time about what had happened with the children?
Speaker 4She didn't talk about our kids. She talked about what she went through.
Speaker 3And what did she say about what she went through?
Speaker 4She said she heard a man's voice telling her that if she didn't do it now, she would lose her chance.
Speaker 1So again, that is him testifying that that's what Lindsay said later, right? Now, her chief psychiatrist throughout a lot of this period was Dr. Jennifer Tufts. She claims that there were no signs of psychosis or mania. Now, again, I'm not accusing Dr. Tufts of saying something that is untrue. I will say that if there were signs of psychosis or mania, she would have told her. If there were signs of psychosis or mania and Tufts had missed them, that would have been a problem,
Speaker 3obviously. You were asked about your January 23rd, 2023 session with the defendant. Defense counsel asked if you had recommended a hospital evaluation for her on that day,
Speaker 5you said no. Why not? Because she was completely denying any suicidal, ideation or homicidal ideation. There were no signs of psychosis or mania. So there were no serious signs that her safety or that anyone else's safety was at risk.
Speaker 3And during that session, did she ever tell you that she planned to harm herself or the children?
Speaker 5No.
Speaker 1Now, again, as we'll talk about, and the reason, I keep putting focus on this is because I think it is true. Just because a psychiatrist testifies that a person who is psychotic is not fully psychotic or is not expressing, many people who have suicidal ideation will not tell their psychiatrist they are suicidally ideated. Now, again, maybe she did, or maybe she was not suicidally ideated. And actually, this whole thing was a plot, right? I mean, that is the question of fact that is being presented. So again, the prosecution's case is that she was not psychotic, that she was depressed, but not psychotic. And she was not in the throes of a manic episode. Sometimes a manic episode and bipolar one can manifest as hallucinations and hearing of voices, for example. They're saying none of that happened. So the prosecution also called a Dr. Gregory Sadhoff, who's a forensic psychiatrist for the FBI, for counterterrorism, who says that she did this quickly and methodically.
Speaker 3Did the defendant tell you that the voice told her where to kill the children?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Did the voice tell her how to kill the children?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Did the voice tell her what to use to kill the children?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Did the voice tell her in what order to kill the children?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Did the voice tell her where to try to kill herself?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Did the voice tell her in what way to kill herself?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3The fact that the voice, according to the defendant, the voice didn't tell her any of those things, but instead just... said, kill the kids so you can kill yourself. Is that significant in your evaluation in any way?
Speaker 7Yes.
Speaker 3How so?
Speaker 7Well, in the small amount of time that Ms. Clancy had in the home without her husband, it was important in order to carry this out, as well as her suicide, to do this quickly, methodically, and the like.
Speaker 1And so basically, the case that he's making is that she didn't hear a voice. The voice is made up. She knew that she had to act quickly in order to dispose of the children, murder the kids, before her husband got home. home. The prosecution also called a forensic psychologist named Dr. Kirk Heilbrunn. He said that she had bipolar two, not bipolar one with manic episodes. So again, the difference between bipolar one and bipolar two is that bipolar one requires one full manic episode. A manic episode is elevated, irritable, energized mood. It can manifest with hallucinations and usually lasts at least a week. So you're talking like a major psychiatric episode. Bipolar two usually requires a hypomanic episode. A hypomanic episode is a milder form of mania that generally doesn't impede your functioning. So the idea would be that if she had never been diagnosed with bipolar one, it would have been surprising for her to hear a hallucination. Now, there are cases in which bipolar two has manifest with hallucinations, but this is Dr. Heilbrunn. I ended up with a diagnosis,
Speaker 8making a diagnosis of bipolar two disorder, which is a slightly less, not slightly, it's a less, severe form of bipolar disorder. And doctor, why did you, why did you diagnose with bipolar two and not bipolar? Because bipolar, as I said, is a more severe kind of diagnosis. It's, it's more noticeable. And if you had a bipolar diagnosis, then I would want to see something that looks, that clearly and definitely looks like a manic episode. And I did not see any, uh, evidence of that before January 24th of 2023.
Speaker 1Okay. Horrifyingly, Heilbrunn also testified that Clancy told her kids to go to God while strangling them. Again, it's just the case itself is horrifying. And just on a, on a level of pure unbridled evil action, the immediate normal human response is death penalty. Obviously, clearly, but that's not the question. The question is again, the insanity defense here.
Speaker 3And further evidence. That you saw for the, uh, suicide combined with altruistic filicide.
Speaker 8There was, uh, one of the things that she said when asked about what happened is that in the course of strangling each child, she said, go to God, baby, go to God. And that was part of her expectation that she and the children would be together in heaven with God.
Speaker 1One Dr. Avram Mack also testified for the prosecution is a forensic psychiatrist that she retained capacity required for having criminal responsibility, which of course is the entire question is whether she had the mental capacity to know what she was doing was wrong and knew what she was doing as she was doing it.
Speaker 9The various mental status examinations done by the doctors at the Brigham generally showed normal mental status. Um, one particular, um, portion of the record reviews, um, their review of whether or not she could have the ability to make a decision in that case, a change to her healthcare proxy. And so, um, the physicians there were able to examine her, um, closely in order to understand
Speaker 10that she does, did have decision-making capacity. And that's an example of, of, um, something you, um, you reviewed in the record that was close in time to the incident itself, correct?
Speaker 1Okay. So the closing argument was made by the Plymouth County assistant DA woman named Jennifer Sprague. And she said, again, she, the, the descriptions here are pretty horrifying because the case itself is horrifying. Here she was talking about the, the bodies of the children.
Speaker 3She killed them and she left them there on the floor with the bands around their necks. She didn't bring them up to their beds and put them with her favorite stuffed animal and cover them up gently and lovingly, leaving them peacefully there. No, she left them discarded on the basement floor like broken toys because she was done playing the game. You know, to a moral certainty, she is guilty.
Speaker 1And so Sprague's case was that there was a, a rational order to the killing of the kids. And then because she demonstrated planning capacity, this means she wasn't mentally ill at the time. The defense would argue, obviously, that planning capacity does not mean they're not mentally ill when they're in the throes of doing stuff. This, by the way, that, that latter part is actually true. There are people who are mentally ill who have the capacity to plan action. The question is whether they know the difference between right and wrong when they're doing it. Again, I keep coming back to the legal standard as that's the issue of the case. Here was the assistant DA Jennifer Sprague on the rational order of killing of the children.
Speaker 3You know, it was deliberate premeditation because of the way she killed them and the way they died. And the order also shows a rationality, the order she killed them in, because Horan Dawson are older. If she had tried to strangle one in front of the other, they would have known this is bad and they would have tried to intervene or run and hide. And she had a very limited time. She didn't have time to try to find a child who ran off and hid. So taking Dawson first and moving him to a separate room, having Cora stay with Callan and having Dawson go in another room, that's rational. That makes sense. That's ordered thinking.
Speaker 1Now, again, you could theoretically have ordered thinking within a disordered mind. That happens fairly frequently in mental illness. But the case that the prosecution is making is that her entire goal was to kill the kids. And not only that, the prosecution actually argued that she was not fully attempting to commit suicide, that if you're trying to kill yourself, then you actually cut yourself in a different way. And you don't jump from a second story window. You jump from a higher height. Here was the DA.
Speaker 3She cut herself. But you saw the cuts on the meaty part of her arm horizontally. No arteries, no major blood vessels. Didn't need to be stitched the next day. The one on her neck didn't need to be stitched at all. She knew as a nurse, those weren't going to kill her. But she was trying. And then going out of the window, 12, 13 feet, she landed the wrong way and ended up paralyzed on the frozen ground. But, you know, the idea that falling out of a 12-foot window is going to definitely kill you, not necessarily.
Speaker 1Okay, so then the DA argued in the end she was depressed but not psychotic. And this is the case of the prosecution.
Speaker 3She was depressed, right? And she was trying to deal with that, trying to get help for that. But it wasn't the fault of the providers that she was struggling with this or that she wasn't getting better. They were doing the best they could. You have the records. You heard the testimony. They were doing the best they could with the information she provided them. And that wasn't always accurate information. That wasn't always the full picture. And they were doing the best they could with her level of cooperation and compliance with the plan.
Speaker 1Okay, so that is the prosecution's case. The defense, by contrast, argues that Lindsay Clancy was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and that that was actually superimposed on bipolar depressive illnesses and exacerbated by bad psychiatric treatment and mixed medication. And they presented a lot of medical evidence talking about everything from suicidal thoughts to severe insomnia to medication problems to psychiatric treatment and ultimately psychotic symptoms. So the defense called a bunch of witnesses. Those witnesses included Lindsay's mom, who read a text from Lindsay Clancy asking for help about three months before the murder of her children.
Speaker 11If this is a copy of the text that you're referring to. Yes, it is. Would you read that for the jury?
Speaker 12Mom, will you please come up and stay with me? I'm really sick. Something is wrong. I had horrible insomnia all night and I just don't know how I'm going to get through the day. I started taking the medicine my doctor prescribed for anxiety and I think it's made things worse. It's just really scary and I don't want to be alone.
Speaker 1He says three months before the killing. Dr. Philip Resnick is one of the doctors who was called to testify and he says that Clancy was psychotic on that day.
Speaker 13Ms. Clancy's case, she had not only a command hallucination on the day that she killed her children, she had what is known as a delusion of influence. That is, not only did she hear a command, but she felt that her body was taken over by an external force where she was in a green state and did not have control of her own body. It was almost like she was a puppet and someone else was pulling the strings.
Speaker 1Another defense witness at Dr. Donald Condie, clinical and forensic psychologist, psychiatrist, explained that it's also possible that she was lying to her own care providers about her symptoms because she wanted to be with the kids and she knew that if she testified to her psychiatrist about what was happening, that the kids might be removed from her or she might be involuntarily committed.
Speaker 11Would you agree that there are reasons that a woman would not tell the doctor or minimize their symptoms out of fear?
Speaker 14Yes.
Speaker 11What kind of fear? Fear of what?
Speaker 14Well, in the records, it's stated that Ms. Clancy reported she was worried that her children would be taken away from her, perhaps by the Department of Children and Families, if she reported very severe symptoms. The other thing is, as a health care professional, boards of registration sometimes take a dim view of people who have been in treatment for certain psychiatric illnesses. And so she might have been concerned about her nursing license, but that's speculation.
Speaker 11So there are other reasons why a person may be concerned about telling health care providers, mandated reporters, that they're hearing voices, correct?
Speaker 1Yes. The Clancy defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, his concluding argument was she went from. Happy mom, happy family to this horror show. That's mental illness.
Speaker 11How does.
Speaker 1It's a picture of the family with the kids.
Speaker 11This.
Speaker 1Picture of her in her hospital bed, paralyzed from the waist down.
Speaker 11Damn medicine and the lousy medical care that she got. You can. Troop as many paid experts as you want to come in here and tell the jury, oh, well, she didn't say that she heard voices inside her head. She said she heard voices from outside her head. She said she was making chicken McNuggets. There was a bowl on the sofa. She wasn't making chicken McNuggets. She said something as I as I think and I'm used and I try real hard to tell you what my opinion is, that this woman was acting in her right mind. She said she was making chicken McNuggets. When these children were killed.
Speaker 1So. Many people are taking a lot of messages away from this, as I said at the top. I don't see how you can. I don't see how you can. This is an open question of fact. This case is an open question of fact. When people show up and they protest outside the courtroom and they project their own feelings onto a case that is horrifically terrible, a tragedy in every element. An act. Perhaps. Perhaps of the gravest evil. What? When you project your own issues onto that, you are doing something wrong. And that is true on all sides. All the hot takes on every one of these topics. They need to stop. They're bad for the country. And they're also just bad thinking. Ricky Schlott spoke with some Clancy supporters outside the courtroom for the New York Post. And she described what she saw.
Speaker 15As much as we might want tangible symbols or stories. That reflect our critiques of society. Sometimes things are just not that clear. And while yes, I think that some of what the supporters were saying were callous. I think it was also the result of a lot of just genuine suffering that brought them here. And in some ways, one woman told me that this was therapy for her as she sat beside the ashes of her own child who took his life. And she blames a failure of the mental health system. And. You know, I think that's probably the best snapshot that I can give of how people are doing and why people are here in the first place.
Speaker 1Now, again, I don't think people should be there in the first place. I think there are a lot of reasons to be concerned about about women's health. Lots of reasons to be concerned about psychiatry. But turning this into a political football is, to me, an act of of patent looniness. I see no rationale for it whatsoever. Well, Clancy's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington. He politicized himself. He came out and he said that Clancy is concerned about women's rights. What in the world are we talking about here? What are we talking about? What the hell does this have to do? A woman does not have a right to kill her children, obviously. What does this have to do with with feminism or women being put under the boot of the page? What are we even doing here? Why? Why are we doing it?
Speaker 11Such a marvelous, sweet, innocent person. She's just amazing and so strong and just trying. It's so hard to get up from. She's just been beat down for three and a half years and she feels that she's had a fair trial with the judge and the jury's been very attentive and all we can do is hope for the best.
Speaker 16You may not answer this, but the women that support her, do you want to say she said anything about women raising postpartum psychosis?
Speaker 11She's very concerned, especially as a labor and delivery nurse. She's very concerned about women's rights. The fact that women are pretty much marginalized. I think it's readily apparent. The DSM is a joke. I couldn't get into the social implications in the trial, understandably. But if the United States would take a lesson from Europe, Belgium, England, France, Peru, a lot of these countries, they take care of their women that have psychosis, keep them with their babies. They don't rip the babies away from them and put the women in jail.
Speaker 1I mean, I'm sorry, this is not a moment for political activism when your client is on trial. For a triple homicide against her own children. So the jury is currently out. They've asked for some additional pieces of evidence. They sent a note to the trial judge. Apparently, they asked to see two bags of pills that were entered into evidence, along with the knife that Clancy used in her suicide attempt. I'm not sure exactly what they think they're going to find there. Maybe the idea is that she was overmedicated. Look how many pills this is. Or maybe they're trying to see, you know, how big the knife was. Was she really trying to hurt herself? Was it big enough to really hurt herself? How sharp was it? I'm not sure what they're looking for there. Okay, so I told you I would get to my take. Were I on the jury? The burden of proof here is very, very high for the prosecution. Very high. Because again, the behavior here conforms with the mental illness theory of the case. Were this a preponderance of the evidence case, meaning like civil standard, preponderance of the evidence just means a majority of the evidence. Then I might be inclined to convict. Were I on the jury, I would be inclined to find for the defense on the basis of the. Insanity defense, I would and then I would and then I would hope and pray that Lindsay Clancy ended up involuntarily committed for literally the rest of her life, which is what happened to Andrea Yates. But that is just me following the facts and I can find I can see others who follow the facts differently. My friend Allie Beth Stuckey, for example, she followed the facts and found the opposite conclusion. This is one of the reasons why I'm sort of perturbed by the radical polarization and opinion over this case. The fact pattern just isn't. This is not clear. The fact pattern is complex. The burden of proof on the prosecution is high. And so I think if everybody had a little bit more grace for one another while looking at the actual fact patterns would be a lot easier to come to the proper conclusions from this case. And the proper conclusion from this case is that horrible tragedies happen. Psychiatric care in general is extraordinarily blunt instrument. And that sometimes acts of horror. And acts of evil. I don't have the marks of clear justice that we would like to see in life. I wish they did. I wish they did. But to pretend away the complexity in the name of political narrative to me, it's bad for the country. It's bad for our justice system. It's just not great in general. Okay. From the very serious to the completely idiotic. So our politics is getting dumber by the day. Legitimately dumber every single day. So the president of the United States is very angry with the Canadians. I don't know, man, whatever again, you know, what really helped is if the president had not declared gigantic tariffs coming on Canada and thus led to the accession of Mark Carney to the prime ministership. It would have been much better for us if Pierre Pelliev had been the prime minister of Canada rather than Mark Carney. In any case, the president is in a big terror fight with the Canadians. And apparently the way we're going to win that terror fight is by randomly renaming things. So he had already proposed renaming the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America, which I kind of liked because at least. The Gulf of Mexico. I mean, America is on both sides of that Gulf. So I'm fine with that. Hell, I think we should stop renaming lakes and gulfs. I think we should just rename the moon. I mean, we found it. Everyone knew it was there, but we're the ones who got there first right of discovery, which is called the moon of America. It belonged to us. The moon just projected giant American flag on that sucker. We should name all of the various peaks after presidents and Elon Musk. America, but the president decided yesterday that in revenge for the battle of Montreal, he was going to rename Lake Ontario, Lake America with his pen. And I mean, yeah, all right, here we go.
Speaker 17So this is Lake Ontario in Canada and in the United States, but we're going to make a little change. We're going to call it something different than Lake Ontario. We're going to call it Lake America and all it takes is. A good pen and some intelligence. So Lake Ontario, that's gone. Lake. America. So now we have a lake. And now we have a gulf because we have the Gulf of America. Now we have Lake America without the of. Thank you very much. Everybody enjoy. like America.
Speaker 1Who knew conquests would be this easy? Can we just do this? Why didn't you do that with Greenland? Just cross out the name of it and just call it like America Land. And then we should probably, just for the hell of it, I don't know, we should probably take like Fiji and we'll call it America Land Land. And then we should probably, you know, just because it's kind of nice over there, just grab Costa Rica and we'll call it America America Land Land. Kind of, so Mark Carney, the Canadians having to pretend to take this seriously is kind of funny. I have to say that the Canadians getting very, very grumpy over this. Guys, let's be real. Your country, it exists in our sufferance. Mark Carney put out a statement, quote, the name Lake Ontario comes from the Wendat word Ontario. Whatever, who cares? Which appropriately means the lake is beautiful, the lake is big. Fair. The name is more than 400 years old, predating both the Confederation of Canada and the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America. We know that America is changing, their trading relationships, their foreign policies, their national monuments, their hydronyms. Canadians also know that naming reality means calling it Lake Ontario. Then, now, and always. Honestly, like, I feel like President Trump would let, he should have named it in English what it's called in Wendat. That's how President Trump describes things. Right, what if he had just crossed out Lake Ontario and he had written, lake is beautiful, lake is big. I would have been into it. But, to be fair, this is all stupid and a waste of time. Okay, but don't worry. It gets stupider. Abdul El-Sayed decided that he was going to rename Melania Trump, the First Lady of the United States, Natalie Harp, because they've decided, in the same way that they decided, the Democrats during the 2024 campaign, that they were just going to put out some nonsense about how it J.D. Vance had copulated with the couch. Now, they're putting out statements that the President is sleeping with Natalie Harp on the basis of zero information. Abdul El-Sayed said, if we're just renaming everything else, when are we making this official? Natalie Harp, First Lady of the United States. And that was so good, that joke was so good, that J.B. Pritzker, slightly less fat than he used to be, did the same thing on the Trump Tower. He crossed out Trump and wrote, Natalie. Trump Tower is renamed to Natalie Tower. And, honestly, you've got to feel a little bit bad. For Natalie Harp, because she's kind of just standing there and she's catching strays. MapQuest put out a statement saying that they were not changing the name. Which means, obviously, we must declare war on MapQuest. It's the only way. MapQuest belong to us now. All your map are ours. Government seizures of MapQuest. Our politics is incredibly stupid. Incredibly, incredibly stupid. Like, there are serious things happening on planet Earth and our politics remains undeniably and unbelievably stupid. As we run into $40 trillion in debt. As we run into a military that needs significant rebuilding. As we run into a nation that can't seem to hold it together over issues as basic as whether boys are boys and girls are girls. I don't know, man. I feel like we have better things to do than this crap. But apparently not. Apparently not. We also don't have anything better to do if you're a Democrat than continue to promote the idea that America is deeply and unabashedly racist. John Ossoff, who seems to want to play JFK in a new movie, but he's not a very good actor. And also doesn't have the awesome Massachusetts accent. He is out there claiming that his opponents stand for bigotry, neo-Nazism, and the Klan. Do they, though? Is that a thing happening?
Speaker 18The state of Georgia rejects hatred. The state of Georgia rejects bigotry. The state of Georgia rejects neo-Nazism. The state of Georgia rejects the Klan. Cool.
Speaker 1I mean, agree? But don't worry. Democrats have more to say about all this. Representative Ayanna Pressley, who, as you may have noticed, is a representative in our Congress, she says the Confederacy is alive and well, which is weird because it's not. So there's that. Like, you are in Congress, madam. So, here we go.
Speaker 19And given this anti-freedom, fascist agenda, the chaos and dysfunction, I have to say, y'all, it is bigger than Trump. Because whenever we do the work of ousting the occupant of the Oval Office, the Confederacy is still alive and well. That's all my days. White supremacy is still alive and well. Anti-blackness will still be alive and well. Xenophobia, anti-LGBTQ. It's not going to end with one person.
Speaker 1Wise words. I'm lying. Those are not wise words. Jasmine Crockett, who lost to James Tallarico in that Texas Senate primary, she says that we can no longer rely on the DOJ.
Speaker 20We continue to see these mysterious deaths taking place in places like Mississippi and historically, whether it's Nolan Wells or Tasia or the long list of names that we could go through, Sean, that are being found hung or otherwise under these mysterious circumstances, when it is clear to everyone on the outside that y'all are just failing to investigate, we used to rely on the Department of Justice to go in. And we don't have that.
Speaker 1So she is claiming that there is a spate of unsolved murders of black people being hanged, you know, like old-style KKK hanged. Miss Rachel is also claiming this. You know, why is this children's host from YouTube who just buys into every left-wing agitprop nonsense campaign and then mirrors it back? Again, Miss Rachel is face tattoo syndrome, but embodied as a human. So face tattoo syndrome, as I've said before, is where somebody gets a tattoo on their face, and then you stare at them because they have a tattoo on their face, and they're like, why are you noticing my tattoo? What are you looking at? It's like, your tattoo. Miss Rachel is the one who decided that she was going to become extraordinarily political, and then when you note that thing, then they say, how dare you target our beloved children's host, Miss Rachel? I mean, it's clown nose on, clown nose off, but for children. So, clown nose off for her to explain that black people are being hanged from trees randomly. We just haven't noticed it.
Speaker 21Please, listen to the black community. Black people don't hang themselves from trees. There's been at least seven black people found hanging from trees.
Speaker 1Now, I would be perturbed if it turned out that lots of black people were being hanged from trees by presumably random white people. It turns out here is a black police chief in Raleigh, North Carolina, explaining that one of these people hanged himself, and they do have a video of him hanging himself. One of my favorite things about left-wing race baiting is when people say things couldn't possibly be true, and it turns out to be true. So, I remember when Barack Obama said this about Ferguson, Missouri. Remember Michael Brown? The claim was that he said, hands up, don't shoot, and that he was shot in the front. He was actually, that he was shot in the back. He was actually shot in the front and all this, and Barack Obama said, people wouldn't just make that up. Nobody would make that up, and they all made it up. Now, you got Miss Rachel. Nobody. Black people don't just hang themselves from trees. Well, I mean, actually, lots of people hang themselves, it turns out. So, here's a police chief who happens to be black in Raleigh, North Carolina, explaining,
Speaker 22at 1.59 p.m., video shows the young man carrying an electrical cord, walking towards the tree by himself. Between 2.06 p.m. and 2.07 p.m., video captures the actual incident taking place. No one else is seen in the area when this incident occurred.
Speaker 1Okay, well, it turns out that a bunch of other cases that people keep citing, like Trey Reed in Mississippi, turns out it was ruled a suicide by the medical examiner. There's a 16-year-old Congolese immigrant found hanging from a tree, ruled a suicide by the medical examiner. There is a person named Tania Nicole Miller in Florida, a 27-year-old woman found hanging in a park, suicide by medical examiner. There's literally one case outstanding. The investigation is still pending. Thousands of people hang themselves across the United States, unfortunately, every year, and white people die by suicide by hanging significantly more than black people. But, again, our politics must remain stupid. And in the stupidest places, it is indeed the stupidest. So, I have to give a shout-out to my old home state of California. L.A., man, L.A. is a disaster area. And all my friends in L.A. keep telling me how much of a disaster area it is. I'm like, you need to leave. They're like, well, I can't afford to leave. I'm like, well, can you afford to stay? So, I have to say, I'm getting a kick. It's a hoot to watch various people running for mayor of L.A., meaning Nithya Raman, a crazy socialist council person there. And Karen Bass competing to show who is more incompetent. So, Nithya Raman put out one of the great tweets of all time. It really is spectacular. And here's what she tweeted out. Quote, The Los Feliz Neighborhood Council alerted our office in late 2025 to the need for a crosswalk at Sunset Boulevard and Bates Street, which has just been completed. Thank you to our incredible CD4 field team for continuing to problem-solve, push for solutions, and make our streets safer. Okay, so they wanted a crosswalk this tweet is dated August 21st 26th. You may notice late 2025 is a long time ago. So it took them a minimum of eight to nine months to paint a crosswalk. Now what's hilarious about this is that the pictures show the before and after. The before is a street that is direly cracked, like gigantic cracks all over the street, like it's in horrible shape, like open cracks. And then the after shot shows the exact same street with the exact same cracks with some paint on them. And it took them nine months to do that. And then over this, it says improving our neighborhood street infrastructure. Uh, did you improve it all that much? I don't know. I feel like the cracks are still there. So you left the cracks, but you painted over the cracks. That is the Nithya Raman campaign slogan. We paint over cracks in belated fashion. Well, California, it's a bad place. And it's a place where you need to save money. So, you know, folks, as I've said before, Pure Talk's the place you save money. If you're spending too much money on your cell phone coverage, why don't you just fix that? Unlimited data for as low as $34.99 a month. No contract. PureTalk.com slash Shapiro. That's the way to do it. You're in California right now. You're spending too much money on literally everything else. So PureTalk.com slash Shapiro is a great quick fix. Okay. So competing with Nithya Raman for the mayoralty. Karen Bass, who also wants to run for mayor. She's the current mayor and she's very bad at it. She is bragging about how she didn't repair a pothole. So she's even worse. Nithya Raman's like, I'm going to leave it to you. I'm going to leave it to you. I'm going to leave this street cracked and put some paint on it. Nine months later, Karen Bass is like, somebody told me about a pothole. I'm going to tell you about how I didn't fix it. Here's Karen Bass.
Speaker 19Hey, Mayor Bass. I found this pothole here on Melrose and Gardner Street. Hoping you could
Speaker 23just send some folks down here to just remedy that for us. Hi, Simone. I saw your post. So I want you to know that city crews were out here today at noon. But unfortunately, there was a car that was here. So we couldn't fix it. I'm going to tell you about how I didn't fix it. I'm going to tell you about how I couldn't repair the pothole. So you know what we did? We put up these no parking signs so that hopefully there won't be anybody parked here tomorrow morning and the city crews will be back. In the future, if you have any problems like this, you can call 311. If it's graffiti, if it's a pothole, or if it's just random trash. So thank you, Simone. Thank you for being a great LA citizen. We're going to get this done.
Speaker 1And then she went and bought something. And then she like bought a donut. So you're bragging about not repairing the pothole. So the lady's like, can you repair this pothole? Like, nope. Best I can do is a sign. World's worst episode of Pawn Stars. Like, incredible, incredible stuff. You know, I was going to solve your problem, but I decided instead not to. What I love about that actually is that she put up the sign and then she's standing next to the sign and the car's gone. There's no car there. You can still see the pothole right there. So right now would be like an amazing time for them to come fix it. But nope, she put up a sign. So your competition for mayor in LA is between a lady who takes nine months to paint lines on a street and a lady who's asked to fill a pothole and put up a no parking sign. You're doing great, California. It's going awesome. Well, your governor is also doing an amazing job. So Gavin Newsom, apparently he has 5,000 bottles of wine in his house. For a sort of champagne socialist, he has a lot of champagne. He was asked about this because again, he has a $7.5 million residence in Sacramento featuring a personal wellness oasis, a resort style pool, a full-size tennis court, and a private casita and a wine cellar that apparently has like 5,000 bottles of wine in there. Apparently he didn't know about the number of the bottles of wine. Here is Gavin Newsom explaining.
Speaker 24No, I never filled it. I just, I didn't even know it had that much until I read that in your newspaper. I literally didn't even know that. Seriously. By the way, I put books in there. I don't know if you saw the photos. There's no wine there. It's books. Yeah. Well, trust me,
Speaker 1it's my only inheritance from my father. Yeah. It's his only inheritance from his father. He grew up dirt rich. So yeah, Gavin Newsom, what a state guys. You're doing great. You're doing great. I love when Gavin Newsom brags about investment into California when it's not investment into California. It's investment into California. It's investment into California. It's investment into California. It's investment into businesses located in California. It's kind of, it's kind of awesome. Alrighty, folks, you thought we reached the end of the show. Wrong you are. We have much more, including the Texas Senate race. Somehow our Republicans going to find a way to lose in Texas. Yeah. Plus Democrats continue to defend Hassan Piker because apparently they've made some sort of pact with him, some sort of blood pact with Hassan Piker. We'll get to all that in a moment. First, you have to become a member to watch it, become a member, use code Shapiro, check out for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link in the description and join us. All right, guys, thanks for watching. I'll see you next time.
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