EP. 244 Truth # 7 Top Sellers Focus on Identifying Barriers, Not Closing

[MUSIC] Well, we are back in the studio and we are, we have not finished the 30 truths to celebrate our 30th year tab. It's only May. But we're digging, we're making progress. We're digging, we're digging. But yeah, we haven't finished. We're still in that series and we'll be for quite a while and I hope it's helpful. Today we're going to talk about something as you know that we typically don't talk about because people put too much emphasis on it. But and so it's usually what the success of a sales call, sales interaction, dialogue happens. The success happens earlier in the process usually. And people focus too much on the end of the process, which is closing, advancing, etc. And we're always like, look, if you do all these other things well, you discover well, you build value well, you understand what the barriers are, then closing is more about just timing and understanding what's happening and what next event and how to position that. But we do need to talk about it because I think it's misunderstood. The top sellers do something that's very, very unusual. They don't focus on closing, which is people use that term closing as you know. Yeah, they focus more on identifying barriers and that's our truth. To effectively advance, focus on barriers and not closing. That's what the top sellers do. Average sellers, they either don't say anything at all. Let me know if you need anything or you know, it's like, or they, or they, or they try to manipulate, they try to put pressure and close and neither one of those works. So that's, that's our truth that we're going to unpack today. Yeah, and I think it's a good one to unpack because we constantly do have to help organizations understand this. They see the, they see the end game, they see the problem, they're not closing business, and so therefore they just instantly connect it to the last stage in the process. And so I think it is good. And another thing that I'm always fascinated by how often I, I don't know if you're this way, but how often I see people just give up. Like, I mean, they do everything so right. And then you get, you get to the end, you know, you get to the kind of, be the finish and they just kind of, all right, well, that's great. I see more of that than the kind of the aggressive persuasive pushy thing. And I can be guilty of that or I definitely understand it because I think, if the meeting's gone well and we've talked about all the things we can do together and we've, we've discussed it sort of topically, it's, it's so easy to say, well, that's what's going to happen. Right. We're just going to keep this, we'll just talk next week or we'll just, and the problem is there's people have so many competing priorities, there's so much going on. And if we don't, if we don't nail out what we're going to do in the room, it is so much harder to get a commitment once we leave the room because we're, they're flooded. Even though there's the tension is to meet, the tension is to advance, the tension is to move forward on the customer's part, but they're, they leave the meeting and other things happen. Yeah. You know, they get a hundred emails of somebody else says something. And so we, we, every meeting needs to end with a commitment to do something. Yeah. And so the question is, how do we do that? And that's, I guess, what we'll talk about. Well, yeah. I mean, in throw, I mean, I think you've already alluded to it. Why this made the top 30? Is there anything else around that? Any other reasons why you put your put in this in the top 30? I think also because people misunderstand the purpose of the end of the call. How do you say it? Yeah. It's like they think, they either think, they tend to, they fall into categories to see if you think, think of it this way. They either end up in the category, I have to do it and put pressure on you. If I don't put pressure on you, it's not going to happen. It's kind of like, don't leave the card, don't let them leave the card dealership. If they leave the card dealership, they're not going to buy cards. Like that kind of mentality, even though that's a, you know, sleazy business to business, I've been business to consumer example, it's that kind of mentality. I've got to button this up and everybody's putting pressure on me and I got to put pressure on them. Can we do that by the end of the year? Can we get this done by the end of the year? Can we get this done by what about this? There's that mentality. And then there's the mentality of which, by the way, hurts our credibility. It undermines all the trust that we built at that point because now you just send like a sleazy sales guy or there's the other side of it, which is, I don't want to be that. I don't need to be that. And so I don't say anything. Yeah. And so we need to help people understand that deals will stall things will are you're going to waste time if you don't really in a very other centered way. Figure out what's going on. Where are they? What do they think? And that's a, that can be a very partner based conversation if we have the right motive. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because I wanted you to kind of dig into that a little bit further because I think, I under, I think you clearly communicated why people do the pushy thing. Yeah. It's self centered. I mean, it's just, it's just about me. Right. So I think, I think if we get that, I think where we, I want to unpack it a little bit more is kind of that mindset around the not doing anything. Yeah. Or the reactive. Yeah. Just let me know. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think, the reality is is we'll, we, we will waste a lot of time. Right. And, and we will, we will probably be focused on the wrong thing or the deal with stall if we don't clarify while we're with the customer. And I think, let's just say you know that. Let's say if you're a rep and you kind of have a little bit more reactive mindset, I think they're uncomfortable with, well, how do I do this? And this is why we, Joseph, how do I, how do I keep this moving, but not act like the manipulative pushy sales rep? And that's why the focus needs to be on what's the barrier? Not, are you willing to commit? Can, can we get this, you know, can we get this done right now? Or what do we next step? I think we should do this. Are you willing to do that? Which feels, you know, kind of aggressive and manipulative? To where are you with this? Yeah, talk to me about honest, honestly, where are you with this? Like, I had a conversation with a company, it was the first meeting, right? And it was, I mean, this was several years ago, I think, and, and it was a software company, SaaS company. And I said, so, so kind of where are you? Well, we're in the process of, you know, and it's like a very non-pushy like, hey, where are you? How can we best help you figure out? We're trying to filter out if we should partner together. Where are you in your process? And what, how are you going to be making a decision? Well, we're just now trying to nail narrow, you know, five or six firms down to a couple that we think are a fit. Okay, great. Well, what makes them a fit? Why would you choose to work with them? Because they, well, they've got to be able to demonstrate multiple case studies of how they've worked with this specific type of company. And there's that's a, that's a non-negotiable. The CEO wants to work with the company that fits this criteria. And here's what I'm like, great. We don't do that. So aren't you glad you clarified? That's a great example. Because you, but most salespeople don't want to know that like, they don't want to come in their back of their mind that says, if I go dig too deep, what if we don't win? What if it's, what if all of a sudden it's disqualified? Yeah, one thing is they feel like, that's not my business. Well, they're asking for you to spend time. The other thing is I'm going to send you information. I'm going to put a proposal together. We're going to set up a presentation. I'm going to waste all this time. And then you're going to eventually tell me, oh, well, you don't qualify because we're looking for a company that has this kind of experience. Why would I do that? And why would they want to do it? Neither one, nobody wants to do that. So let's just have an honest conversation. Hey, I'm a builder. I do these kinds of houses. What are you looking for? Well, I'm looking for something different. Okay, well, good. How can I help you find that? I mean, maybe I'll help you find something different. Yeah. So if we have these honest conversations, we'll know if it's something we can work together on. I just kind of think of it as I know you, we talked about this before, you think of it the same way. It's like creating a fork in the road. Are we going to move together? Are we going to move towards working together? Are we going to move away? That's and so that's all we're trying to do. It's no pressure. All answers are okay. We just want the truth. And if I get the truth now, the other thing that could happen is I can say, well, I'm completely wasting my time. Or I know now exactly what I need to address because they said, the only way we're going to move forward is if this we have to get funding for the project. If we can't get funding for the project, we're not going to do that. So what this isn't about choosing a farm right now, this is about is this can you invest in this now? My next step is, well, how do I help you do that? And how can I be involved with that? If I can't help them do that, then it's like, well, when will you have that figured out? Most of the time, we can help them figure that out. But it just, you're in sync. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was on a call the other day, we're one of my salespeople and we were kind of collaborating on this call. And it was a big company, big opportunity. You know, I'm a little excited. about this. And he kind of, same thing, but we're a little fuzzy on a couple of things and I'm in break back my mind. I'm thinking, well, I want to move forward on this thing. And he did such a great job. He just kind of came in and said, hey, let me just pause for a minute. If we're getting all excited about this, let me just ask you a question. And he just tightly clarified, you know, he came in and just said, hey, in order for this to work, this has to happen and this has to happen, is that even, let's talk about that? Because if that's not a, if that's a, if that's a deal breaker, then we can just stop this conversation. Right. I mean, I thought it was just brilliant. And, and it was so great because she just paused and she just kind of was like, that's a great question. I love that. And then she basically said, maybe, which was fine. Maybe is acceptable. It wasn't no, it wasn't yes, you know, but it was a maybe. So then we just said, well, then let's move forward. We can now go to the next step. So we now had a very clear next step because it was so tightly clarified. So, yeah. But, but I'm sharing that story because I was feel, I felt what sales people feel sometimes. I'm much more concerned about getting this moving forward because I'm excited about the size and what this could be. And it was really, it was just a nice example of, of the power of, yeah, exactly. And, and if you, you know, if you spend the time asking these tough questions, again, you're, you're, you're not going to, you're not going to waste time. And like, it's like, it's like, we don't want to know the truth. Yes. And I think, oh, the worst thing I want to do is spend time on something that's never going to happen or focus on going to work to prove something that doesn't even, it doesn't even, it doesn't even matter. It's like, I don't even know what I'm talking about. So, yeah, it's, it, I think it's just, I think it's either people are just don't want to face the truth or they're, they feel like they're going to act like a sleazy salesperson, a manipulative salesperson if they have these questions. So a lot of it is about knowing you need to ask it, but how do you ask it? And that's why we keep coming back to barriers. It's like, what needs to happen in your world? And I always like to move, remove me from the, the conversation. Oh, regardless, regardless of whether you're working with us or anybody else, yeah, what has that? The other way you can do that is let's just assume, you can go either way. You could also say, let's just assume we have the perfect solution. Like it, if checks all the boxes, it's the best solution. I know you don't know that. I'm not assuming making assumptions that it is. Yeah, what would have to happen for us for this, you know, opportunity to move all the way through the process? So you can position either way and get them to explain it to you. And I, I always like to put, because I'm so worried about wasting time. Yeah. I like to put it, I kind of put it on them to prove to me, this is something I need to be involved with. Yeah. That's a very, other centered way. Like you're asking, and this is the way I think sales and sales reps need to think, I have a valuable information, resources and expertise that I can share. You're asking me to spend a half a day of my time, potentially. If you want that amount of time for me, I need to know that there's why am I giving you this time? Because every time I'm serving somebody, I'm not serving somebody else. Every time I'm working on a deal, I'm not working on another deal. And so I'm happy to give you my time and have to invest. But you've got to, and I guess I'm not going to position it this way, but it's how my mindset works. You need to convince me that we need to be, this is a partnership. Yeah. Right. It's a partnership. You got to win. I got to win. It's a partnership. So why do you want us to be a partner? And it's not I'm going to pressure them. It's just a bit. Explain this to me. Very curious. And if they can't, and another way to think about this is try to kill the deal. Yeah. Now, how does that's really good? I love it because you're kind of answering one of my questions, which was kind of some things you can do before to ensure that you do this. And I think that's what you're talking about. You're kind of talking about some things to pre think about to kind of get you ready coming into this. But the, this is what I'm I hear I'm hearing a lot is what about if you're you're not you think you're at the decision maker level and I know this happens but you're not you're someone who's kind of they may have the right title, but but they don't really they're not the decision maker. So how do you handle that? Like how does that come up? How do you work through that? Well, I like my favorite way to unpack that is to focus on the process, you know, like let's just kind of go back to their process. I kind of go back to this imaginary situation where you're not talking about our solution, you're talking about a solution or you again, you could say you you find you believe that we have the perfect solution. As long as the best solution for you, what has to happen? Where are you in that process? Yeah. And, you know, and I like to give them off the hook. I like to let them off the hook. So maybe maybe you haven't got this funded. And so you got to go get it funded or maybe you're not even sure it's a problem you should tell maybe you're unsure if there's our ROI is there. Maybe you've got to get a whole team together. I always treat them like the decision maker. I think that's really important. I always treat everybody talking to like the decision maker. But as you're asking these questions and they start talking about it, they're going to start to reveal other people will need to be involved. Yeah. And then you start saying, okay, well, well, we're going to have to meet with the team. Okay, we'll tell you about the team. You know, and then they'll start telling you about the team. Well, is there anybody in particular that you you believe really needs to be on board or how are you going to get funding? Talk to me about the process of getting funding. We don't have funding yet. Okay, well, what's your process? They'll reveal to the they'll reveal it or they'll say, you know, I don't know the answer to all these questions, but why don't let's do this? Yeah, but as long as you're doing it, I think you answered the question. And I think that's really true. It's just you have to treat them like the decision maker. Or make any assumption. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Don't make any assumptions. And and there are times that you don't get this information. You know, there'll be times I was like, I got to go. Yeah. Another question I was going to ask. Yeah. I think that's another big challenge. At least for me, I can come in with the greatest grandest plans. And I've got my three commitments to next steps. And I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, you know, all these things. But then that's what happens. So what do we do with that? What's yeah. Well, my my the way I've approached that my decision is I'm never going to act like I'm not going to do anything that demonstrates that I'm untrustworthy. Okay. Or and what I mean by what I mean by that is it's going to be about me not them. So it's always about how to serve them. And if they've got to go, they got to go like something's happened or they cut us off for something, you know, and I'm not going to say, well, you can't go. You're running. But you want to say that you, but we've we've got three more things that I haven't qualified this opportunity. Right. And so what I would say quickly, I said, look, I'm still unsure about what the next steps are. Do you mind if I send, I'll send you an email to outline that and you can just respond as to how we go forward. Because I feel I'm a little fuzzy on how I best conserve you. And that's the best way to, because I'm a little fuzzy on how I best conserve you. And so I'm going to send you, I'm going to send you an email, outline this and then you just make it a really easy for you to respond. And they, they'll say yes, and they may or may not do it. But what I want them to do is to verbally commit to something because when they say yes to something, they're going to feel likely need to do it because they've committed to it. And again, I'm not trying to manipulate them. I'm just trying to say, are we doing this or not? Because I'm not going to write the email. See, they're asking me to write an email. And then you write an email. Yeah. You know, with the way that they'm all that I'm thinking of right now that I'll describe in a second, it's not, it's going to take a minute. And so I'm not going to write this email if you don't want this email. Right. I'm not saying you got to work with me, but we got to have a, so and then they say yes. And then I'm going to write an email. I said, a lot of people, when I talk to them at this stage, you know, they're in one of these, they're in these three or four categories or here they are in their process. Where, where are you and here's the next steps that I would recommend based on each one of these stages and and make it really easy for them to respond to via email and make it thought provoking so that they're things that they haven't thought about about what's the best way to buy the solution. And that's the, that's really a key to being able to advance is that if they haven't, they haven't, they don't, they shouldn't know all the, all the things required to make a good decision. There's just so much, I mean, if they, let's say, I don't know if you say you sell HR solutions or whatever, or sales training like we do or whatever, whatever you're selling, you've sold it hundreds of times, maybe thousands of times, at least your organization sold it probably more than that. They may have bought it once or never. Right. And so they're not very good at figuring out what's the best way to buy the solution we offer. And so we need to help them see that this was complicated, but, but, and I'm here to help them through it. So if I start to map this out in an email, it communicates. Here's all the things that need to happen for you to make a good good decision and they're going to be, oh, okay, I thought about that, which again, elevates you. in the mind of the decision maker and that also can keep the conversation going. But it's all about them. How what do they need to do to figure this out? Have you thought about these? These are the five things that need to happen. Where are you in this process? So your mindset is all you're looking for. That's why this is such a good truth because your mindset is just constantly be looking for barriers. They're making, you know, you're not saying it, but you're kind of going, I'm afraid you're afraid they're going to make a mistake. I mean, we see this all the time. You're like going, you know, of course I want to deal, but you're being dumb. I mean, you're not going to, you're going to make a decision from a 30 minute presentation. Right. For millions of dollars and how you're going to invest in your salespeople or whatever, you're just going to go all the time. All the time. Yeah, the big companies will come in. They've got a team of people and they say, this is our process. I said, that is not a good way to evaluate what we do. Right. I could make it up. You'll never know the truth. You never look at, you know, and the analogy I use if I'm talking to a customer and this is helpful when you, by the way, are trying to get a commitment to a step is to have a way of articulating it, but I'll say, look, if you just ask us to show you the menu that we offered our restaurant, you will have absolutely no idea if the food's any good. But that's why people buy these services. They want to see a menu. Here's all the thing. How many restaurants do you have? And let's show us your menu. I'm like, you really want to buy our solution. You need to taste the food. You need to see how it's prepared. How they going to do they can they make custom, you know, develop a custom menu for you? And I mean, that's just one analogy that we use at times. But until there's a way of communicating that and laying it out. And then while you're doing that, you're helping them see the process, which builds, builds credibility with them. And you also can potentially be highlighting barriers as they throw, well, we can't do that because or we don't know this. So we're not going to or okay, so let's let's talk about what's keeping you from. In other words, another way to say this is if there's there's eight things that need to happen for them to buy the solution, you need to be able to articulate the eight things and then what are their barriers do all eight things? Yeah. That's great. It's perfect. And you get out of you want to get out of selling anything. It's more like you're saying you're kind of stepping in saying I'm a consultant now who works with companies to help them make this decision. I'm not selling anything. I've been brought in as an outside consultant to to be to help them buy something they've never bought before. That's the role you need to play when you get into the advanced stage. You kind of just like forget that you're trying to sell things. Just like help them navigate the buying process, tell them what they need to be doing at each stage and then figure out what's keeping them from doing that at these stage. And once you uncover that, it becomes pretty easy to say, well, okay, so you're at this stage, well, how can we help you do that? And then you're now you're having a relevant conversation. Or it's never going to happen anyway. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is good. I mean, this is good. All right. Any other specific, you know, tactical things that that would be helpful to share along these lines? I think just I want to reiterate the idea that it's just just to remove any any situation where you feel like you're I mean, try and you have to manipulate the customer. Right. You know, you just, you know, you want to you don't want to undermine all the work that you've done up to this point to try to I got advanced, right? You know, I've got to do you know, I've got to do this thing, right? If you're but if you're struggling to think like the customer and what's their best interest to help evaluate and then learn how to position that. That's the key. And by the way, you talked about prepping. Yeah. I think that's really that's a really good area where you're you want to prep is how do you want to ask the questions that you need to ask? You know, because these questions are going to smell like you're trying to get a commission. When you get into this area, you know, how are we going to make this happen? Where are you? You know, who's involved? All those things, it's easy to sound like you're trying to you're trying to win something, which hurts, which then they'll become less candid because they're trust lowers and they're receptivity lowers and they don't really share the truth. So you just really need to think about how you're going to position these questions that you want to ask. You know, where are you in the process? So you could always add, you know, I want to make sure that whatever we recommend or what we're working on together aligns with where you are in the process. If it's not, if you're not ready to invest in this, that's fine. I'll help you figure out if you should invest in it. Or if that's too much, you're just looking for a couple of options to try to even see if you can get preliminary funding. I'll help you with that. So you just constantly are looking, how am I going to say that? Yeah. And knowing that information and be thinking through it when the time is comes in the conversation, you'll be able to position a way that'll make them feel comfortable. That's good. So yeah, so I kind of think about it from two to take a ways. Number one, you've got to be other centered, think like the customer, make sure you have the right mindset. Help them make a good decision. Help them make a good decision like you have that mindset. And then to me, it's, I was thinking knowledge and preparation. Because that may take some work. You may not know it. You need to talk to people. You need to do some prep and think about that. What are, I like how you said that, we need to clearly articulate all these barriers at each step and then land on good questions that can kind of bubble that up and how we respond to that, how we can lead them. So you think about like the first stage is like a thing and should we invest in this? That's at the stage where it. Yeah. And by the way, they don't want to tell you this because they're afraid you won't give them time or information. Like they're going to act like it's a deal. So because they want you to give them information. I mean, in this situation, so many times as a customer, I'm going to act really interesting because I don't want you, I want you to give me the best stuff, the best information. But I'm really trying to figure out, but if I make you comfortable, hey, a lot of companies are at this situation, they're not even sure they want to do this. So if you're trying to figure out, is this even worth the investment? Now you have something to offer to help them determine the ROI or the cost of interaction. It's our friend, Randy Riemersman, to say, yeah, you know, and that's what your best step is and you're not putting pressure on them. And you know, so you just you think about each stage then the stage, we know we're going to do it. Yeah. Now the question is who are we going to, you know, how we got to pick a solution provider? Well, is that going to be, are you going to could you potentially solve it internally? So if you're putting that on the table, that makes you more, you know, more trustworthy because are you thinking about using somebody internally or is you something outsourcing? Well, we are. Okay. Yeah. All right. Now the barrier is I got to help you figure out us versus the internal. So we'll let him think about the internal and let's go through those questions. No, we're definitely going to outsource. Okay. Well, how are you going to pick the firm? Well, it's we think here's this process of picking the firm. Here's what we would recommend. Now, you know, one of the things tab is, you know, we talk about this. I hadn't really think about talking about this, but if you come in late, yeah, that's where you really have to you have to really be have some candid questions because they they will put you in the you're already down the we're down the road. Yeah, this is what we're looking for. And it kind of sounds good or something winnable, but most likely you won't. Yeah. And most likely you're going to have to have a really you're going to have to have a really candid conversation about what they're looking for, who they like. And and you're eventually probably going to have to ask them to back up and do some things differently. And if they're not willing to do that, most likely you're wasting your time. Yeah, but that's a really good one. We I mean, you and I've been plenty of situations like that. And sometimes they tell you they won't will. But then the chips too big to move and they try to, but then they can't. And so that's okay. You just you know, try to make it out. And you a lot of times we've had those meetings, our probabilities low here, but I think it's worth investing. Yeah. Yeah. And they are or you say, if this doesn't happen, and those are the situations that we have all the time, it was like, if this doesn't happen, I'm not going to get involved. And I've said that. And it was to date. Every time I've said that, they've changed. Yeah. They've changed the process. I think there's times when we didn't say that and they wouldn't have changed the process. Right. There's 30 people involved. And yeah. But um, and maybe that's why we didn't ask. There's a problem. We're right. I think we read the writing room. Yeah. Um, not that's good. But the way think about it is real simple. I'll sum it up this way. All you're doing is helping the customer buy the best solution, not your solution, the best solution. And if you figure out what's keeping them from making a good decision, that becomes that becomes the conversation that you have to determine what's next steps. And that is much more intuitive. It's much more easy, easy to gain a agreement to that. Then it is to just put pressure and say, Can we do it now? Can we do it now? Plus if they say yes, they'll just change their mind. Yeah, that sounds great. And then you'll never, you know, you'll never talk to them. Yeah, I was talking to one of my sales guys and we had a good, a good, my head's meeting and we were just debriefing. And, and he just basically was saying, this was early when he was pretty new. And he said, that was just really good. I said, what made that, made that a good meeting? He goes, you know, it just felt so comfortable. Like we were just trying to help these people. Like I was like, yeah, that's what this is all about. He goes, but it was just so natural. It just seemed like we were together and we were just kind of exploring things. And it was, you know, it just, it never had this feeling of a, because I think he'd come from more of a formal. Yeah. He was trying to make everything real formal. How to adversarial. Yeah. Which made it feel a little more adversarial. And I'm like, yeah, you gotta take the pressure off. It's just, you know, relax and that's what we're trying to do. Yeah. The way this is a really good point, tab that you bring up, or at least it's sparked the thought. Yeah. Is that if you're discovery with your customer is, if you're 100% effective at that, you'll know exactly what to do. Yeah. You're right. You know, but there's, so a lot of what we're talking about is you've had really great discovery. You built value in either your solution or the next step. And then you go to check that if there's barriers, because that's really how you close. That's how you advance is what are the barriers. And that's when you might see, oh, there's more to this than I thought. Or, yeah, this has been great. And I've been talking to you about me and I've been talking to you about what we need. But I got to get this other division on board. Or we're not going to move forward. Oh, okay. So now that's going to determine. Or, well, this has been great. I really believe that you guys could be a great fit for us, but we don't have funding. Oh, and so it's, but if they say this is great, I think we're ready to get started. Then the next step is what there is. So there is no barrier. Yeah. What when, when, when do you want to set up the kickoff meeting? Yeah. Here's what we're going to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, there is no barrier than there's. So it's never about closing. It's just, there's no barrier. Now you're ready to go. But I like how you said it to advance, focus on identifying or moving barriers, not closing. I mean, that's just such a great truth. And, you know, I'm going to do this a long time. This has been of a great reminder for me. I mean, I just think it's great to kind of come back to some of the basics and just be reminded of a lot of hard to tab for people like us who've been selling for quite a long time. It's felt so in the same solution. It's, we have to be reminded of this every time because the meetings go well. People are talking and it's great dialogue and great engagement. And then you can end the meeting or I don't really have a clear next step. You know, and it didn't seem important to time because everybody was so excited and there's so much positive conversation. Yeah. And then, you know, then two weeks goes by. Nothing. And then, you know, like I can't wait the person because we don't have anything on the count. Yeah. I mean, so this is something everybody has to has every meeting should end with a commitment to do something. Yeah. Yep. Sounds good. This has been great. Great truth. Hope this is helpful. Thanks for joining us for another truth. And love, love to hear from you. If you have any, any questions or recommendations, we always want to hear from our audience about how we can better serve them. So to have good to see you, my friend. And thanks for, thanks to everybody else for joining us for another episode of sales with Haslam.