Ep 237: The AI Field Guide: A Playbook for Nonprofit Success with Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Contee

So I often say that nonprofit leaders who are in the business of changing the world have this tendency to be change resistant. Maybe it's a need for something in their lives to remain steady. Maybe it's risk of Earth's boards. Those are two hypotheses you can add your own. But AI presents exponential change. It feels really big, really turbulent, and complex. But make no mistake. It is and will continue to be a game changer. And its ability to process massive amounts of data in real time and its capacity to transform that data into decision-making, predictions, and insights of scale. For me, the game changer is in freeing nonprofit staff up to become more visible and vocal champions for their cause. We need them to be that through the building of deep relationships that are essential to create a large, engaged, fully invested ecosystem of investors. But where to start? I'm going to suggest that you start with the purchase of a new book that is a little bit of a one-stop shop. Editors and guests today, Darian Rodriguez-Hamen and Cheryl Conti sought out the best and the brightest, offering insights and practical advice from different and diverse perspectives. If you've ever said, I just really need to know so much more about AI and I'm not sure where to turn. Well, I have your answer. Today we'll chat with the editors who will help you imagine what is possible. And in a world feeling more than just a little bit dark, that feels like a pretty great exercise. Welcome to nonprofits are messy with Joan, Gary, and Experts. This podcast is your go-to space for insights, advice, and inspiration designed to help nonprofit leaders overcome challenges and drive impact. Whether you're navigating small beginnings or leading a larger organization, we're here to support you every step of the way. Together with Joan and a diverse group of expert guests, we tackle the big questions nonprofit leaders face and offer actionable advice to fuel your leadership journey. A special thank you to Donor Perfect for sponsoring this episode and supporting nonprofits that we love. Now let's jump in! Darian is an accomplished author fundraising and philanthropy consultant. He is the best-selling author of nonprofit management 101, which is sitting on my bookshelf and ought to be sitting on yours. He is the former executive director of the Craigslist Foundation and a sought-after keynote speaker at social impact events around the world. He can be reached directly via his website helpingpeoplehelp.com. Show Conti is a pioneering technology entrepreneur and digital transformation expert. She is the best-selling author of Mechanical Bowl, How You Can Achieve Startup Success. She is a trailblazing startup founder and a trusted advisor on digital innovation and social impact. She inspires audiences globally as a leading voice on inclusive entrepreneurship and social enterprise. You can find her at AI, the number four N-P-A-I for nonprofits.org. First of all, welcome to you both. Thank you for bringing this all together in a single volume to read, to reference, and to help leaders maximize living as you wrote on the jagged frontier of this technology. Welcome, Cheryl. Welcome, Darian. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. So there are lots of different books out there on AI, right? I mean, if I Google it, if I go to Amazon, I see quite a number of them. Why did you dedicate your efforts to write another one? Tell me about the origin story of the book and of your collaboration. And maybe I actually would start with Darian here and then have Cheryl Chyman. Yeah, sure. You know, I think, especially at the time when Cheryl and I decided to write this book, there had been a couple books out there from Beth Cantor and Afro-Bruce, both of whom contributed to this project. But they all came out before Chatchy BT in November of 2023. And so they were largely more focused on some of the philosophical issues. You know, are the robots coming to take our job? How do we remain human centered in an AI driven world? And what we saw was that after the release of Chatchy BT 3.5, there was a sea change and people just sort of recognized like, okay, this isn't up for debate anymore. This is coming. It's here. And, you know, we need to start thinking about how can we responsibly use AI as a tool to support our work with fundraising, with marketing, with programs, and with back office. And that tactical, practical tips and tools book hadn't been written yet. And so we were really excited to work on that. I think since then, Nathan Sheppell wrote a book, who's also part of our book project. And that's kind of coming from more one voice. Whereas we interviewed 57 different people, as you mentioned, and really talked to all the different experts to get lots of different perspectives on the tactical and practical side of AI adoption. Awesome. Cheryl, what might you add there? You know, I was at the non-profit management institute at Stanford University. I had gotten an invitation and I had saw that Darian was speaking. I was like, oh, it'll be really fun to catch up with Darian post COVID. You know, we did have that chance and he mentioned, hey, you know, I'm going to be, you know, writing this book. I had probably mentioned Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica in the sentence before he said this. Because it's like, hey, do you want to work on this book? AI for nonprofits with me, nerd, super nerd. And I said, yes, you know, obviously, you know, I saw I see AI as a great opportunity for organizations and their leaders to go to the next level, you know, of what you can do. I mean, AI, it's like having a super smart intern, right? You know, there's almost nothing they can't do. You know, they can work 24/7. They don't need a coffee break, but they need supervision. You need to have that human in the loop, right? And so, you know, we see the entire book as you, nonprofit leader, executive director, you know, CEO, board member, you know, you are that human in the loop. And you know, in this book isn't meant to be read as a, you know, cover to cover. It's really meant to be a field guide, right? Like a playbook. And you scan, right? Scan the table of contents, you know, zero in on the, you know, what are the tasks that aren't my team are struggling with that are repetitive, their time consuming, their expensive, their tedious, you know, how do we use AI and bring that into our workflow such that we can remove all of those things and bring back, as Darian said, you know, the human connection and the human in the loop. So I love the idea of a field guide. And honestly, when I heard that Darian book was on pre, when the book was on preorder, I went to Amazon and looked at the table of contents. And I thought, wow, this covers such a diversity of issues that nonprofit leaders face. And you can, you know, just like Matt, honestly, just like your first book, Darian, and then I could pitch that one because I think I have a chapter in it, but as you can pick and choose, it's, it's, it's there for the particular topic you need. So I'm, I'm totally about that. And show, what would you say is, so you know, you could have picked 50 authors, you could have picked 60 authors like, you know, there's so many people out there that haven't so much thoughtful insight to add here. Do you see any kind of a thread that pulls the work of the writers all together? Absolutely. And of course, there are so many people, you know, the book is already gigantic. So if you, you know, if you get it physically, it's big. So we had to narrow in, but yes, there are a lot of amazing voices. But I think the thread, the tie is all of these voices together is that AI isn't just about technology. Ultimately, it's about people. And, you know, every contributor in our book, every expert, you know, whether they're talking about strategy or fundraising or, you know, legal affairs or ethics, they all center back to the concept that AI should free us to do more of what matters most to us. You know, most of us are in this, right, to advance society, to make the world a better place or at least a slightly less terrible place. You're in this to serve your community, you're in this to serve your community, right? You want to build trust with those, you know, who you're trying to benefit. You know, that's what AI should free us to do more of. And that's the heartbeat of this book and every chapter and every contributor feels that same way. And if I can jump in real quick, because I think there's, there's a, and by the way, would show them how, show them how big this book is, would you? That's our, that's our, that's our, yeah, so the side, it's, it's not small, but that's because it's chock full of resources and really helpful tactics. And I think, you know, Cheryl really talked about some of the strategic and the philosophical throughputs that are in basically every part of the book. On the tactical side, what's really interesting is that there was also a kind of a common denominator. And whether you're looking to deploy AI for fundraising or, you know, to evaluate and enhance your programs or whatever the use case may be and that's sort of all the different chapters in the book, almost every single chapter spoke to the need on a tactical level to actually write down some kind of policy or just take a moment to reflect on your goals, reflect on the guardrails that are necessary, reflect on the data that needs to stay secure, and put down some thoughts on paper about what is acceptable and what's not and why, and that iterative and dynamic process is really at the heart of responsible AI adoption, it's taking the time to invite intentionality into the process just like we do with our board meetings when those go really well, it's because we take the time to structure an agenda and make the best use of everyone's time and AI has that same ability. Well, I think there are a lot of nonprofit leaders that would like to see board meetings go really well, would like to see their organization be one in which people are doing the work that is the best and highest use of them, right? And I think that's part of what I see as the promise of in the work of nonprofits. Darien, when you and I spoke, we talked about some themes and some trends and you used some cowboy metaphors, the Wild West, I think came up. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, I mean, I think the reality is, you know, people are a bit freaked out. We've had a lifetime, Sharon, I aren't the only nerds out there. I think we've all seen the terminator. We've all seen a lot of these dystopian future. No, I have not seen the terminator. All right, well, maybe we have an all. I'm a different kind of nerd. We I'm a different kind of nerd and we can that maybe that's a topic for another podcast. We can do that in another podcast, no problem. But yeah, what I would say is that, you know, we have had this vision of a dystopic future, you know, fed to us for the last several decades now and it's at the core is sort of technology gone awry and that is a legitimate concern and that's why we need these guardrails. But the reality is, I think in large part because it's so foreign because people don't understand it and they have some fears. For the most part, what we're seeing across the nonprofit sector is the vast majority of organizations have their heads in the sand around AI adoption and they have not really taken an organizational stance or strategy where they've really taken the time to reflect on, you know, what do we want to use this tool for? What are the redundant processes that we could streamline or automate? How can we expand our effectiveness and serve different audiences that speak different languages? Whatever it might be, how do we enhance board development internally, all those different use cases? And instead of putting thought into that, everybody's just basically saying, oh, maybe this thing will go away or blow over. We're busy. We don't really have time to think about this. And the reality is, you know, if you do want to get serious, it's not that complicated. It is as simple as taking some time to write a policy and a strategy on paper, ideally, especially if you're dealing with sensitive data to create a custom large language model or GPT. So you've got a little playpan, a sandbox within which you can play and you know that the data is secure. You know, most people don't realize if they put some donor data into a chat GPT prompt, that is becoming part of the training data for the next generation. And we can't have that if we're dealing with HIPAA records or donor records or whatever sensitive data it may be, it has to stay secure. And that's not that complicated. But that's what happens if you don't have a policy and you're not thoughtful about this stuff. I might have been at that same, if not the following year, Stanford conference. And Beth Cantor was doing a workshop. I've known her for years. It was the first time we ever actually met IRL. Which was fabulous. And I think about folks like Beth Cantor and Amy Sample Ward. And I wonder Cheryl, if you could talk a little bit to maybe their contributions in this book and what I've really learned from Beth is about the ethics of AI. And sort of what, how you peel all the layers of that onion. So I'd love to hear what you learned in working with all these different people about the ethics of AI. Because that's a whole follow-axe. We really put a lot of focus on that in AI for nonprofits because in talking to nonprofit leaders, philanthropic executives, et cetera, we heard a lot about that, right? That was a big concern. Beth Cantor is an old friend of both Darien's and mine. We were thrilled that she agreed. She's been a leader, obviously, as Darien mentioned in this in the field of the smart nonprofit. How do you start to think about AI adoption? And in our book, Beth really zeroes in on AI has to balance opportunity with care. So it can save time. Sure, that's great. But not at the cost of privacy or bias. We should expect and do better than that. And then Amy's simple word of N10, she's amazing. Her team is great. I've always been a huge fan and supporter of that organization along with Darien. Amy's chapter really pushes us to ask, well, who benefits from AI? And who gets left out? And at the end of the day, nonprofits are in that trust business. That's a big part of your brand, of your promise, your contract, if you will, if I can reference you so and be all fancy like that. Yeah, you want people to trust people need to trust and have that contract with that nonprofit that we're supporting you either with our name, putting it on a petition. We're showing up in person at a protest, right? We are giving you our money. So ethical AI is not optional for nonprofits. That's how we protect and treasure that trust while embracing innovation with your donors and supporters. Darien, anything you want to add to that? I just want to plug in 10 for the contract we signed with them because they came on board as our fiscal sponsor for the AI for nonprofits, digital learning, her hub that you mentioned before at AI4MP.org, as well as the National Learning Lab series. We're doing about a dozen different conferences in major cities all around the US. And that's all happening under intense nonprofit banner. Fantastic. You know, it's interesting. This whole idea of intentionality and actually stopping and saying, what do I need to know to traverse these turbulent shark-infested waters that now seem to have pirates in them? It's a nathema to nonprofit leaders to stop, right? And I feel like if you're listening to this podcast right now, you've stopped, right? You've stopped. And I just want to say thank you for that. But I want you to see this as an appetizer, right? I want you to see it as an appetizer and say, wow, that's interesting. I could buy that book. And even if I only read Amy Sample Awards piece, the Hebrew word would be "Dienu." That would be enough, right? But this is the best in the brightest, the cream of the crop who have been assembled for you, right? And I really been thinking a lot about this lately that there is such a huge posse of people like you, Darry, and and Cheryl, Beth, and Amy Sample, Ward, and Alessofine, and the 50 plus other people that have contributed to this book. Why have they done that? They've done that because they actually really give a shit about making sure that you, as listeners, are successful, that you don't burn out, that you spend your time doing the right things, that fuel you, fuel the impact of your work, build sustainability for your organization, and keep your job satisfaction high and retain you as great leaders. That's what this work is all about. Sometimes it's just worth stopping and remembering how many people are on your team with you. So I put my little soapbox away, so we've talked about it. AI for nonprofits, edited by Darry and and Cheryl, easily found on Amazon or wherever you find your great nonprofit books. It's a compendian, a field guide, terrific writing, terrific experts, and if I can steal a phrase that I don't use often, a big, beautiful book. Now, imagine I'm a very busy nonprofit leader. How would the two of you suggest I use this book to its best advantage? So when I wrote my book, I'm not plugging my book, but I pictured a brand new executive director picking it up and saying, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need to get the lay of the land for this new gig. And I wrote it because I wrote the book I wish someone had handed to me. Give us some thoughts about how a leader, a board, a staff could use your asset to begin to syndicate the power of AI into their organization in a way that is feels relatively reasonable, is not too heavy a lift. Darry and I want you to go first. Yeah, I mean, I think Joan, you're speaking directly to my formula because this book is just like the last two books in terms of the format where we interviewed, in this case, 57 experts across all these different topics. And we created a consistent framework and chapter structure to really unearth and highlight the most salient and actionable tips. So the term you kept using is field guide, and that's exactly what it's intended to be. It's an owner's manual. And just like the last books covered all aspects of nonprofit management and nonprofit fundraising, this one covers all aspects of AI for nonprofits. And the idea is, you know, certainly you could read it, cover to cover, and there is a logical progression. But to Cheryl's point earlier, it really is, you know, a reference manual. And so if you're looking to deploy AI-powered fundraising and start to put it to work with your grant writing efforts or with your major donor cultivation efforts, there's chapters for that. If you're creating content to support marketing and social media and you want to use AI tools to analyze your social media presence and optimize it, there's chapters for that. And so, you know, the reality is, you can read any of these chapters in about 20 or 30 minutes, just like the other books, each of which is backed by a resource review where you can dive deeper if you want to go, you know, more into that topic. And then there's a whole resource guide at the end with about 200 resources. And so, you know, the premise, I think, to your question about how to really digest this, if an organization wanted to sort of, you know, tackle the whole elephant, is I think it's in bite-sized pieces. To your point, we're all super busy. And one of the things that came up in multiple chapters is the importance of creating a culture of innovation within a nonprofits. And so that could look like a weekly or even just a monthly meeting where one person leads a discussion on one chapter, and they spend 20 or 30 minutes reading it. And we can have a discussion with our peers about, hey, let's talk about CRM, let's talk about AI-driven fundraising, let's talk about how to use this with our board. Here's some ideas that were shared in the chapter. Here's some thoughts that I have. What do you all think? And then ideally, we put a couple thoughts on paper and we go from there, right? So it's all about helping get people started with, you know, a critical but minimal amount of effort so that they can show up and then decide where to go from there and just get the journey started, which is so critical to every use case that's outlined in there. - I want to hear from Cheryl, but I also just want to say, it's sort of an ironic that a book that has how many pages, Darian? - I think it's about 600. - 600? - 500. - Yeah. Yeah, so 600 book page book can be used in Bite-sized pieces. I love that. Cheryl, the question goes to you as well. Sort of how does a leader, a board, or a staff begin to use this book to get the conversation started and moving? Anything you'd add to what Darian said? - Sure, look, AI adoption doesn't have to be overwhelming. We're actually in a moment right now of plateau, in part because there's a concept called compute, right? Where we're almost at the edge of what super computers, how fast they can go, how many we have. You know, so this is actually a great time to take a breath and sort of get the lay of the land. You know, and you want to start with your mission, right? Not the tech. You know, who are you and what's important to you? And look, if you know, start small, you know, get those quick wins. Use AI to support people, not replace them. We know that that's a big fear, you know, among teams. One of the, you know, our chapters actually is called selling AI upstream and downstream in your organization. And at first, it was just upstream. We thought that like social media, you know, middle people in the middle or team members might have trouble, you know, selling it internally. And instead, we heard from many nonprofit leaders who said, oh, no, I'm down. I'm ready to rock. It's my team, you know, that is really worried because they don't want to lose their jobs. You know, a lot of team members also talk about, you know, ethics and environmental concerns. Of course, you want an AI policy, you know, that puts guardrails around ethics and data. But, you know, in terms of, you know, if you have some ethical issues with some of the companies that are leaders, right? You know, there are lots of mission driven startups from our community, like posterchild.ai, or change agent, AI, which are both startups that I am a senior advisor, you know, that are really focused on providing services and tech specifically for nonprofits like yours and share your same values and have built those values into their tools. And then on the environmental side, you look California, you know, where Darian and I live is now the largest economy in the world that is mostly clean energy. It's actually two thirds of our energy comes from clean sources. The Netherlands is now at 50%. You know, so, you know, the good news is that the cost and the power of clean energy is rapidly going, the cost is going down rapidly, the power is going up and accelerating. So, you know, I think that problem is a problem that's going to fix itself in the next few years. So, you know, again, just to finish, you know, I would say, look, you know, AI should create space for us to do the work that only human beings can do, right? Everything else can be done with AI. So, how do you lead this adoption process with urgency, right? You need to get there using AI is not an option. So, how do you get there ethically with empathy and with creativity? Love all of this and so I am so down on this idea of a culture of innovation. And, you know, I thought we had it during the pandemic, what challenging times make possible. And I fear, and I've seen too many examples of us not being able to hang on to it in the way that I had hoped that far too many, I think far too many risk adverse boards pushed people, pushed organizations back to, you know, business as usual, which was not great, you know, not everything it was cracked up to be to begin with, right? Piloting, innovation, trying things, building proof of concept, all of these things, which, you know, I kind of learned in the private sector when I was doing startup work there, it works. It really, really works. So, we're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, what I love about this book is, I think, to Darian's point, though, the practical nature of this, the actionable things that this book points you in the direction of doing. I love what you said, Darian, about how to use a chapter. I was immediately thinking about, like, development committees on boards that generally don't have a clear charge. And they ask all kinds of questions. What are we doing about this? And what are we doing about that? And instead of being thought partners, they see themselves as overlords, right? But what if you sent them a chapter from this book and it became, what should we all together be doing as it relates to fundraising so that there's buy-in, more than buy-in, but also a sense that you could get your board to become champions for this as well. So, when we come back, I really want you all to focus on these critical guidelines that you established for AI adoption. And I think it's an excellent place to sort of put a nice bow on our conversation for today. So, stay with us and we'll be right back. You don't want to miss the end of this because you're going to want to take notes and you're totally going to want to buy this book. Are you a staff or board member of a small to mid-size nonprofit? Now, you might feel alone, but trust me, you are not. I built the nonprofit leadership lab for the millions who are just like you. You'll find time-saving resources when your pants are on fire, opportunities to uplevel your skills, and a warm, nurturing private community of what we call superheroes. Thousands of board and staff leaders call the lab home and we'd love for you to join us. Learn more at nonprofitleadershiplab.com/podcast. We are here talking about a new book called AI for nonprofits. It is a compendium, a field guide, an edited, big, fat book of 57 remarkable people who have come together. There it is. Darian has his book and it is what the moment calls for. As Darian said earlier in the conversation, other books have been written and they were written before chat GPT. So, there was a gap and nothing is better than a book that fills a clear gap and this is what Darian and Cheryl have done here. So, I loved your list of critical guidelines for AI adoption. And I wonder Cheryl, if you wanted to share some of those, I think there's 10, like a David Letterman thing, but not everybody who listens will even get that. I get that. But anyway, why don't you take us through some of these critical guidelines so that people are really understanding what they have to think about and do as they're really beginning to adopt this? Absolutely. And yes, dating ourselves. Although Letterman had that Netflix show for those of younger people, you may have seen him on the Netflix. Thanks for saving my behind there. Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome, ma'am. So, I've got top five, right? Just because, you know, we know you nonprofit leader are hella busy. So, here's a hot top five. Number one. Look, as we just mentioned, mission first, tech second. Don't just adopt AI because it's-- the new shiny flashy thing, adopt it because there are aspects of it that you can use that directly advance your mission. So asking yourself, how will this help us take things off our plate that we hate doing, that are not the fun part, and how can we use these tools to help us serve more people, help us raise more funds, or help us deliver programs more effectively. Number two, start small and win big. Begin with just some quick, some low risk experiments. An example might be using AI to a draft emails that go out every day or every week, use AI to help you with the first draft of your grant applications, etc. You know, in these early wins will help your team build confidence and create some momentum and it won't drain your budget. A lot of that kind of thing is actually you can use, you know, free or low cost tools. Number three, people over platforms. People are very freaked out about AI potentially losing your job, but we haven't necessarily seen a lot of people lose their jobs just yet for AI because really, AI is at its best when it augments your team and doesn't replace them. Your team's wisdom, values, and lived experiences are irreplaceable. So starting to frame within, you know, yourself and with your team, you know, AI as an assistant, that frees up your team to focus on strategy and human connection. Number four, guard rails matter, you know, starting, you know, your team, they're already using AI. I can promise you that at least half your team is already quietly using AI to make their jobs easier and they're waiting for leadership from you. They're waiting for leadership from, you know, their senior team, they're waiting for leadership from their board to know what is and isn't okay. You want this out of the shadows. So being able to establish ethical guidelines early, you know, whether you're protecting data, reducing bias, you know, and being transparent, you know, and fair and ethical with your community, you know, whether it's internally or your external stakeholders. Non-profits must remain trusted institutions. And you don't want to risk that trust by moving too fast and breaking things to quote someone that, you know, people, you look it up, you can look it up. Number five, build for, yeah, you know what I'm going to build for the future, not just today. AI, of course, is evolving very quickly and will continue to do so. We'll probably going to see some spurts, as I mentioned right now. We're in a just a little bit of a plateau moment that will change probably, you know, within the next year or two. So, you know, you want to choose tools that are flexible, you know, you want to invest in your and training your staff and upskilling them continuously and cultivate a culture of innovation and curiosity. And that way your organization, you know, is poised to be ready for the opportunities of tomorrow, not just, you know, the annoying tasks of today. So, you know, I think there's a lot of opportunity out there and I hope that people will be, will be brave, but also responsible, right? You know, that this right now is the time to take the bull by the horns, but Darian, what would you add? Yeah. I mean, I think just kind of connecting the dots on some of the things you said and you you touched on this at one point when you talked about bringing AI out of the shadows. And I think that's really at the core of what is so critical right now is for organizations to recognize that they have a role to play. This isn't just an individual pastime where people on your team are using the tool and figuring it out for themselves because they are. It is incumbent upon us as mission-led organizations where, you know, we are stewarding the public's trust that we need to take a responsible approach here. And that means inviting intentionality. That means being strategic. And to Cheryl's point, that doesn't mean, you know, making a ginormous commitment and investing millions of dollars and our entire staff for years on end. That means just starting small. That means doing something. And so back to the example that Joan had talked about previously with, you know, board members asking what this might look like, you can ask AI. You can say, you know, what should our committee be doing? Give me a possible draft charter for our development committee, for our technical, our new technical governance committee that we're starting. What should our mandate be? Give me one piece of paper with a mission statement and some bullet points and see what you get. And I think from my point of view, the two things that I've seen turn that light bulb on for the most people are number one, not being afraid to speak directly to the fears and the concerns because I think what I see all too often in the AI for good community is we only talk about the positive stuff. And there's a lot of it, but we leave people behind when we don't directly address their concerns around data security or the robots taking jobs or whatever it might be, the environmental impacts. And so we do need to hold space for those those concerns and address them effectively, which is actually not that hard. But at the same time, people need to see the tools, right? One of the authors took our 600 page book, "Fedit to the Robots" and in five minutes, created an NPR quality podcast of the entire book in a nutshell. And the quality of these AI-driven outputs is getting so much higher that it is really eye-opening when you can see some of these outputs, some of these images, some of these videos. And so, you know, and in the case of what I was just talking about with that board example, what does it look like to get a draft of a charter for a committee, which is a best practice I've been talking about for 20 years. And now we've got that, you know, high-powered intern like Cheryl mentioned that we can say, you know, give me what I want. And within 10 seconds get a pretty good starting point. And that really seems to open people's eyes to the possibilities. And it directly supports this co-intelligence idea of how do we work in partnership with this new tool and allow it to free up the people to do the things that only people can do. Right. And it's really a both and isn't it? My wife has joined a fundraising committee for Lambda Legal, which is a LGBT Legal Advocacy Organization. And she had, I was writing an email to secure a meeting with some people we felt, she felt we were as warm leads, right. And there's no question AI could have written that email. She didn't have to ask me, I just happened to be an expert in the house, right. But she could have, what she couldn't do, what AI couldn't do was read between the lines and interpret what the donors were saying when they responded, right. So that if that donor responded, that perspective donor responded and said, we're going to make a gift we're about to open a donor advised fund, right. And I said to Eileen, if they're opening a donor advised fund, you're probably not thinking about asking them for a large enough gift, right. So there's a nuance and a humanity that comes around interpreting that actually led Eileen to a very successful first time ask because of the combination of, you know, I could have spit out or my bot in the leadership lab could have spit out. Here's an example of an email to secure a meeting. But when you get the thing back, what do you do with it? And that's actually, if I could spend more time thinking about the humanity of that response and then how to really think about what kind of conversation I want to have with that donor prospect, like that's game changing for me because I can spend my time doing the thing that is most important. And actually, I would take it to an even higher level because everything you just talked about is actually it's right about to be possible. Like we are, I would guess, you know, a year to two away from being at a point where nonprofits will have sort of a conserved level service that says, hey, Joan or Eileen, here are the five donors you need to follow up with this week. Here's a pre-written email for each that has an ask amounted. It asks about their wife, you know, and their kids. It ties in their personal connection and it focuses on the programs they want. All of the stuff that, you know, a junior to mid-level, to even senior level fundraisers might put together, that's all going to be on a silver platter for you. And so the things that you're going to add that only people can do is number one to your point, sprinkling that voice and that nuance and connecting the dots on top. But number two is the FaceTime is, you know, taking this email, using it to secure a meeting and then sitting down with that donor, looking them in the eye, building that strong partnership and talking to them with a level of passion that no robot can about the work, about the need, about the impact that they can make possible. And using all of that intel, just like I can provide you with a dossier before a board meeting or before a donor pitch, the robots can do that, but only you can build those relationships. Yep. And boy, if we get to a point where I didn't hear from people I was coaching, I'm just not sure why my development director is always at their desk behind their computer. Right? Why is that true? And how can AI make something different? different possible. I think it's very clear. I wanna just give you both sort of a final thoughts or pieces of advice. And if one of you could, you know, go back to what I said at the very beginning. So yes, we have staff that is using AI. What does it take to be a good champion at the leadership level for change in this regard? Because I think that's quite essential. So final thoughts, and if one of you wants to grab that question, I think it would be really useful for our listeners who largely are leading nonprofits to say, okay, how should I be leading this change? - Sure, look, you know, AI isn't here to run our nonprofits for us. It's here to free us up to do more of what your nonprofit does best, which is putting the human back in humanity, right? And leaving behind all the repetitive time-consuming, tedious, yucky work that you don't wanna do, so that you can connect more human to human. And we wrote AI for nonprofits because we want every leader to feel confident and future ready. And this is a moment in which nonprofit leaders, you know, board members, you know, philanthropists, this is a moment when you can help shape the very tools and techniques that become standard. This is all a very fluid and dynamic, you know, innovation cycle. So, you know, by getting involved now, you can actually help steer how this rolls out going forward and be a part of making this beneficial as beneficial as possible for human beings. - Darian, you get the last word here. - Yeah, I would say, you know, when you hear the term GPT, never mind what it actually stands for, think of a general purpose technology. This is something like fire or electricity or the internet can and should be deployed to help with almost anything. It not only unlocks efficiencies, it expands effectiveness and impact, and we are by definition in the nonprofit sector, mission led organizations. And so I would argue you are being irresponsible if you're not looking at how to responsibly leverage this tool. And that does not need to be daunting. It doesn't take a huge commitment. It just needs a little bit of strategy and intentionality and to bring it out of the shadows and have conversations and encourage people to play around with the tools and innovate and experiment and learn and share those lessons with one another so that as a community, as a team, we can come together and ask the most important question, which is how can this new tool better enable us to advance our mission? And that's why we're all here. You know, this is not the first time or the last time we have been on a new technology rodeo, right? Like, I used to type, now I'm really gonna date myself. I used to make money in college by typing other people's papers on an IBM's electric. - Nice. - Right? You know, actually at that time, it was very valuable to me. - Yeah. - My first job out of college, I had a guy went on vacation and he seemed to have a very important job and he had this big spreadsheet and it was essentially what would become an Excel spreadsheet and the boss would come in and say, "Could you change it to 25 cents, a cable subscriber "and this many subscribers and that guy would take out "as a racer, right? "This is an MBA, right?" And Mike went on to do great things when Excel hit the market. Mike Sullivan was so ready to do something really important and he was like, "I got a raise because I knew how to use Excel." So it was like a win-win. But like I think about all of these things that we now could never do without. And that's what's going to happen, but leadership in this space and reminding people that this is about people and not about technology, I think is gonna make all the difference. So now that I've completely dated myself, Cheryl wants the last word. - Well, I've got two hot tips for folks, right? So one is, look, chat bots respond well when you are nice to them. Treat your chat bot like it's another colleague. Talk to it that way because all of the studies and research show that you'll actually get better outputs believe it or not. You'll find that your chat bot starts to mirror the way that you think, the way that you talk because it's really trying to vibe with you. Again, this is science. And then finally, there is a great website that everyone should check out. If you wanna get a sense of how fast this is moving, what is the breadth of this? It's literally the website is there is an AI for that. It's such a fun website to just toodle around in and to see all of the different ways that people are building little AI tools to help their productivity or have a little fun. - Fantastic. The book, it is called AI for nonprofits, putting artificial intelligence to work for your cause. There it is, edited by my guest today, Darian Rodriguez, Hey, Minister of Conti. Talk just for one quick second, Darian, I'll let you lead on this. You are working and being not just to sell this book, but there's a mission in this for you as well, is to make sure that people have the tools they need to use this tool to its greatest and best advantage. You're doing some really cool things to really try to get the word out. Tell me about that and also just where can we find you, the book, and let's leave it there. - Yeah, I would say the focus isn't even on trying to get the book out. The focus is really on trying to build nonprofit and foundation capacity in the social sector. And so what that looks like is sort of a three-pronged approach, maybe four-pronged, one is the book, and you already mentioned that, and folks can pick it up on Amazon and everywhere else, it's already been a great seller, and we're really excited for the impact that that's making in the marketplace. But then we're building off of that and under intense physical sponsorship, we've launched AI, the number four, NP.org, just like AI for nonprofits. And what we're lifting up there is two things. One is we're building a comprehensive clearing house for all things AI for good. So all the books, the newsletters, the websites, the conferences, all those different resources will be under one roof. We're also launching a national event series of learning labs that'll be one-day conferences in major cities all over the US, possibly even internationally, over the next year. And we're gonna be bringing these conferences to cities all over the country. You can find out more on the website at AI4NP. And we're also inviting people to get involved if they want to volunteer, if they want to help flesh out this resource directory or serve on the host committee or speak at one of these events or join us as an attendee, all that can be found at the website. And you could also contact us directly. That would be the fourth leg of the stool is we're doing a lot of coaching and consulting in the Serena, so I'm pulling together teams all the time to work with foundations, with nonprofits, with cohorts to provide special unique trainings and all kinds of bespoke support. And all of that happens under my consultancy at helpingpeoplehelp.com, where folks can reach out, they can request a free coaching session. And I'm just happy to speak to people, find out what their struggles and what their needs are and see how I can fulfill those, working with Cheryl, working with other folks, and really just doing what we can to help nonprofits meet this moment. I think back to your earlier comment, you talked about how COVID really unleashed this huge burst and culture of innovation. And I think right now is difficult as times may be. And as, you know, unstable as things are with government funding and different things that directly affect a lot of nonprofits, we're also seeing a huge surge in innovation, in flexibility and in resilience, because that is what nonprofits do, when the going gets tough is we find new ways to serve our community. And that's what AI represents. - I am delighted to have had this conversation with you. Every time I have a guest on my podcast, I am reminded of what an incredible cohort of people are out there. Let me be the first to tell you, writing a book, that, you know, unless you wrote Gone Girl or, you know, something like that, you know, that's, it's not a money making adventure. It's a passion project. That's what my book was for me. It's what this book is for them. Have a look, find it, grab a chapter or two, and start to think about what's that small thing I could do to test the waters, illustrate proof of concept, to stave off some objections and show myself to be a champion and a evangelist for the future through AI. So, Darian and Cheryl, thank you so, so much for being here. - Thanks for having us. - And best of luck with all of your stuff. And remember, it's AI, the number four, np.org, is where you're gonna find so much. And I really loved Cheryl, what was the fun website? I like fun. - Yeah, there is an AI for that, doctor. - Yeah, I'm gonna turn this recording off. I'm going there right now. Thank you both for all of you who are listening. Thank you for the intentionality it took to make time to listen. And. Now let's give it a go, shall we? See you next time. (upbeat music) - Thank you for spending time with us today. We hope this conversation provides valuable insights as you navigate the messy, but meaningful world of nonprofits. A special thanks to donor perfect, for sponsoring this episode and for their dedication to empowering nonprofits like yours to do more good. For more resources to support your work, visit jongarry.com/podcast. We think you'll find a lot of helpful things there. Most importantly, thank you for all you do to make the world a better place, one small or large step at a time. Talk to you all next time. [BLANK_AUDIO]