EP 219: Program Design For Different Goals, Coaching “Challenging” Clients, Flexible Dieting, Coaching Cues with/ Cody McBroom

Welcome to the Vigor Life Podcast, a source of inspiration, lessons, stories, skill sets, mindsets and strategies to vigorous and expand all areas of your life. Let's go. What is going on? We're back with Vigor Life Podcasts and what has become pretty much a monthly episode. With another N' Cody McBrune, what's up brother? What happened man? We had to, hey listen, the setting this up was a physical preparation act man. Like we had to call, call Adam video audio at the plug things in. There's a whole lot of things going on which makes this will make it even better episode. But today we are, we got some good-ass questions man. Like we kind of got a list of questions which will probably take us on tangents. But they're all in a space of program design, coaching, getting results, nutrition, honestly the shit that we do in day and day out. But I think these are very good from a standpoint of I think insights to people can actually take and use which I think is the big thing. I swear this last week, I'm getting bombarded by stuff on social I think we all are. But like a lot of things that I see, you can't take it into an actionable step. It's all like, okay cool. How do I put this into my life situation? So we're going to try to turn this into coaching that you can apply. Let's kind of like flip flop these round table questions. First ones from program design. And the question is how to bridge the gap between GPP, which means general physical preparation for athletes and bodybuilding for aesthetics without losing the benefits of either. Do you want to take a whack at this? I got a lot to say here. But what are your thoughts on this? You train people that do both. Obviously got a good chunk of experience with the physique side of things, the bodybuilding side of things. But you know how you would mold the two. What's your perspective on it? How would you approach it? Because you kind of do that with some clients that is right now. I think that, I mean I would just look at this almost, it's concurrent training. The hybrid approach is super popular right now. And I think that we always have to prioritize the main goal. Like I can, two clients come to mind that I work with right now. One went from doing Ironman's to then stepping on stage. And now he wants to do another show and we're in prep for a show this year. He did a show last year. And he still has aerobic capacity and could go run. But it's nowhere near where it was because he's not practicing it at the same degree. And then I actually have somebody who did the opposite. They went from more of a bodybuilding focus now. They're doing more of the, they went into the marathon. And they want to keep pursuing that side of things. Kind of like what I did, you know, I kind of jumped around. But if you're, it's very easy to develop. It's not easy. It's simple to develop a result and keep a result compared to achieving both of them at an excelled degree. Right. So if I'm just trying to maintain muscle, the research shows it's. I think I want to say there was that one study that said like one eighth of volume which I don't take that risk. I've read like 40 to 30, 30 to 40 percent. One eighth is low, but still not a lot though. You do a couple days in the gym and you're going to maintain a lot. So knowing that we can switch, but I think it's, I don't know, the hybrid approach to me. I'm like, you're going to be good at everything. Like I'm going to go do that ultra trail run. I'm not going to win because I'm still doing too much lifting and bodybuilding and stuff. But that's okay because I love that. Also, if I win stepped on stage, I also wouldn't win. I'm not going to be the best at either. So I think a big piece of it is is having that conversation with the client to make sure they know you're not going to be the top in both of them. But we can excel in both of them or maintain a level of performance in one while pursuing the other. And then you're just periodizing back and forth. But I think in general, it's like let's turn down the dial on the one and turn up the dial on the one they either want the most or they need to work on the most. For me, that means like for right now I'm I'm focusing more on movement running athleticism than I am bodybuilding. But I'm still doing what you're maintaining. Yeah, like you're doing enough stuff enough stimulus to have maintenance on that. You know, well, so I had a, I haven't released this one yet, but like Brad had Brad still we're going to podcast and it's funny because like he gave this analogy about other parts of life. And like, I've now I'm going to steal this analogy for for fitness. And he was basically like, you know, there is no balance when you're trying to build something, right? But let's say so I'm going to just give examples of like life, right? Like you're trying to build your business. And in those beginning stages, I mean like for many years, like you got to put in a lot of work, right? I mean a lot of work, right? And you might not be like, but you don't want to let go of your health, right? Like you don't want to let go of your, maybe you're in a relationship, you're married, whatever maybe, like you, there's a minimal effective dose of maintaining those things, right? Maybe that's a date night a week, maybe that's spending, you know, date night with the kid. It might be, you know, three, three sessions of one hour, right? Yeah. What does it I need to get to not lose this thing that's very, very important? But also like, hey, I'm building this company is going to take three years of, you know, whatever work, right? And then seasons change, right? But the analogy is like this, you got like maybe two things on the main stove that you're cooking. And you got to pay attention to them and like you got to, you know, you can't just walk off and like you got to put in the salt, you got to heat up, you got to mix it up, right? But then I got five other things on the stove behind me simmering. Like they're heating, I can check those every three, four, five minutes fine. You know what I mean? Like they're going to be fine. And to me, that's like when you, when we're talking about like this, right? A general physical preparation, different abilities, speed, power, strength, muscle building. There's two things on the stove and usually they're going to be complimentary, right? Like by the way, strength and muscle, pretty complimentary, power and strength, pretty complimentary, like speed and power, right? You know, aerobic endurance on a far end, like 100 kilometer, 50 mile run and muscle building, opposite spectrums, right? So like, man, I might, I might just simmer on the muscle part, right? Like and be like expect that I was talking to Tony the day. I was like, you know, if I was training for an Ironman, I would have to lose some muscle. There's just no way around it, right? Like I try to maintain as much as I can, but I'd have to give up some, right? So I'm going to let it simmer type of situation. To me, that's a great analogy. It's like, yo, what are the two things? Maybe even three that you can, you know, keep on that main stove. Three is like max, but I think two is more of a good analogy. And then what are the four to five that you're simmering on, right? Like, hey, like don't lose your mobility. Like I have really experienced kind of getting stiffer. The last, you know, seven months with the baby, meaning like, I haven't done as much of my mobility drills, you know, I'm in weird positions for like 45 minutes, 10 hours to two hours. You know, my sleep, especially last three weeks, has been wrecked, right? Like, you don't want to move because you don't want to wake him up. Nope, but precious. Yeah, exactly. It's like you feel the spasm happening, but you just push through. And so it's, you know, I've kind of legitimately, so I was telling Brad this, like I made this new, I combined, I know they're kind of varying off here, but I think this is a good insight for people, right? Like, so before Arya goes to sleep, like it's like play time for 30, 45 minutes, sometimes an hour, right? And so number one, I found it so useful to like leave the phone downstairs. I definitely've had the phone problem, right? And like, so I leave it downstairs and I had this aha, like I go upstairs, I have the best play time with her, I don't worry about anything, and I brought a phone roller with me. So she's playing doing her thing, climbs on me, climbs off, you know, throwing shit, doing her thing, but then I'm phone rolling, I'm doing like mobility drills, I'm doing my tiesits, you know, and it's like 30, 45 minutes passed by, she starts doing her little, like I'm getting sleepy thing. Cool, Arya, we start putting it to bed, but I got like 30 good minutes of like just movement stuff in, like, you know, rolling out the lots, the hips, this dad, the other. And it was like, okay, I know I can do this three to four days a week while she's doing this, it's my new thing, I combine it, right? And it's like, I leave my phone, I have an hour of no phone, I'm kind of like feeling a lot better without the digital shit, kind of going into my head. And, you know, I think about that as like that minimum effective dose now, right? Like, hey, I'm not going to maybe go full blown FRC and go hardcore on like working on improving my mobility, but like, man, I want to get it back and kind of just have that maintenance. And that's the way to simmer it, right? So I think that's the good idea of like, how do you do something is like, hey, man, like if you really want to improve some things, by the way, like three months is a minimum, I'd say go even longer, you know, go like for six months, or I don't know. Maybe even a year, like, have maintenance and other things and like, you know, push something for a minimum of three months, I'd say six is even better, but that would probably be, you know, I think good now concurrent training, right? Right. I, this is the kicker. Like, you can improve a whole bunch of stuff, especially when you don't have a good fitness level, everything's going to go up, you know, pretty dramatically. But like, here's another analogy that I've now used used for myself when people are like, well, what's your philosophy around fitness? I'm like, look, I want to be like a decafly, right? And here's, so I looked up the numbers on this. Will you think, what do you think is the, so decafly is 10 events, right? And I can even tell you all the 10, but it's everything from, you know, shot put, I think, javelin, high jump, long jump, 100 meter spray. And I think there's a longer distance run in there too. But the number one decafly on the planet, so Olympic gold medal winner, what is this 100 time? Probably the one of the lowest of the I'm guessing of the 100 meter likes when they just do that one race. I mean, he put it this way, they'd be, they would never make it to the finals. They wouldn't necessarily, they'd kind of suck, but, but it's actually, I was actually blown away. I thought it was going to be worse. The Olympic gold medal winner into the Catholic lawn runs at 10, 12. Now, here's why I'm bringing up this point, okay? Because I told somebody, I want to be like a decafly and like, what do you mean by that? I'm like, well, my 100 meters, like would not get me like, I'm never going to win a medal. I'm never going to win an event. I'm never going to be anywhere close to that, right? But I'm ahead of 99% of the 0.9% of the planet, right? And maybe that's even an extreme. But my point is, like, you know, that's how the elite is elite, right? I want to 10, 12, like you're not even in the spectrum for medals of 100 meters, right? But there's pretty much almost no one on the planet that can outspread you. Right? So when I look at physical abilities and I look at strength, and I look at speed, and I look at even like a good chunk of muscle and conditioning, right? That decafly analogy, right? Whereas like, hey, like, I want to be significantly better than most people and really having five fitness levels, but it's not going to put me in competition and winning anything, right? But I think that's a good approach of like, what's the decafly on a fitness and maybe it's not, you know, again, agility, speed, power, strength, muscle, you know, robot capacity, movement mobility, right? There's all these different things. I actually have those non-physiological, when I was speaking in Vegas, I was talking about the different physiological variables that we can affect, right? Muscular endurance and aerobic endurance and aerobic endurance, so and so forth. But I think that, you know, again, most people at the beginning can just crank it and get good results and everything, and then it starts diminishing, and then you go to approach that we just talked about. To me, that too, like, for normal people, even like us, because we're not like, we're, I would say we're above average, but it's kind of our responsibility to be that way, because we coach people, but we're not competing and stuff. It's being capable, because if somebody's like, hey, man, we're going on this amazing hike, and it's 10 miles, I'm going to be like, okay, let's do it. Somebody's like, hey, we're going to play 30-minute pickup game, but it's non-stop. There's no subs. Okay. I mean, I suck a basketball, but I'm good. Like, I can keep up. The different intensities, like, I'm fine. Like, I'll hold my own. I also have muscle. So if I get knocked down, I mean, there's another good example that dude Nick bear. Like, he's a big dude. He got hit by a car when he was running not too long ago. He, like, flew. I mean, he went to the hospital, he was kind of shut up, but the dude was running, like, two days later, because he's so big and muscular that, now, when he just did his Iron Man, it looked like he lost a bunch of weight. Maybe that blow wouldn't have been as easy, but he'd had muscle before. Point being is that I think that being capable of all these things is really desirable, and we should be training at least a little bit of all of them. Now, when it comes to the mechanics of like programming this out, there's a couple points I wanted to throw out there. One is if we're maintaining certain things, remember that you don't need to progress those things as rapidly. So a lot of people are always trying to put five pounds on the bar, always trying to do an extra rep. And that's great. But if my focus is to progress my running, I might be increasing my volume and my runs by 10% a week. That means I'm adding miles a week after week. That's a lot of volume. I don't need to also be adding volume to my squat and to my deadlift and these other things. So being cautious of what's progressing week to week and what's just standing still, and that's okay. And then also looking at the split and going, because if somebody came to me and they're like, hey, I want to do an Iron Man, I want to do this. I also want to be jacked or even just maintain as much muscle. It's not always this way, but for a lot of people we go, okay, cool. Like let's say you're going to lift four days a week then and we're also got to run three days a week. I need those at least four to six hours, ideally, you know, six to eight hours apart, which means you got to do some in the morning and in the evening some days. Hey, I need you to get eight hours of sleep on top of that too. We got to manage like recovery. So do you have a son? Okay, let's get into that sometimes. Now all of a sudden we're starting to pile up a lot of stuff, but when we look online and we see hybrid athletes, a lot of them do a lot of these things just to build both or the dude was jacked before you became a hybrid athlete. Like bro, if we started training you for a marathon and you did lose a little bit of muscle, but you got leaner in the process because you're just putting in burning so many calories. You would look like a even more of a freak and people would be like, oh, I need to run air on like. No, he's lifting for decades. And that's why he has the muscle and the frame that he does. And now we put that system in an aerobic ability, which I do think people, I've noticed this personally and I think I've seen it with some of my clients too, but somebody like you or me who has been lifting for a long time is good foundation of muscle and strength. The speed at which they progress their aerobic capacity is way faster than the average person. And I think it's got to be just because of the muscle, like you're putting that muscle to work. There is some energy system tied over obviously, but it's fast. You know what I think? So you make a bunch of good points is like, you know, one big point is like, if you add something, you got to take something away. You know, for most people, right, like, and into you make a point like, hey, if you want to push, I know some folks, and actually from Slovenia that like are doing, you know, like top five in the world in high rocks, right? Like the dedication amount of time that to put to it and the recovery that to put to it, it's significant. You know, a lot of people that have regular jobs and families and stuff probably couldn't do that. So that point matters, right? This episode is brought to you by the RP hypertrophy app. The programs were designed by Dr. Mike Israel, you could choose from 45 preloaded training programs and 250 training technique videos. It's for anyone looking to build muscle, change your physique, and not have to worry about what to do as it's absolutely all laid out every step of the way from exercises, sets, reps, weight, rest time, and what form and how to do it as well. It takes the guesswork out of crafting a results training routine by spoon feeding you a step-by-step plan for maximum gains. It even adjusts every week based on your progress and has a 30-day money back guarantee. That means that you can buy it, train on it for 21 days, and if you don't like it, they'll just give you your money back. And here's the deal. Right now, you can get $50 off on an RP hypertrophy app app. rpstrength.com/figure. Again, www.rpstrength.com/figure. Again, for anybody that's looking to change your physique, build muscle, once the take the guesswork out, I love this app and recommend it to a lot of people, so make sure you check it out. Look, I just think that people that have a history of training. I look at my, and let's take from age 13 to age 25. So 12 years, and by the way, before that train, after that train, significant amount. 12 to 13 years, after school, off season, we were two days, all the time. Our pre-season conditioning was brutal. We were doing lifts and two days basket on, and sometimes three days, honestly. And so there's this foundation of, I would say, GBP, aerobic capacity, that you still, you know, later on in life, benefits you. Right, it just does. So you got to look at the history of where the person comes from. There's definitely genetic components to it. The book that's actually pretty old now, sports gene, talks about why people lean into a certain sport. Because you go to the stuff you're better at. The person has really good muscular genetics and super explosive, probably won't run high school, like the long track. Do 10 miles and stuff like that. And a football or basketball or sprinting, right, like, there was this crazy studies that over the course of 20 years, the average arm length and tennis extended by four inches. Right, because it's so beneficial to tennis. Right, so people that had longer arms would go into tennis. Right, like the running back is a certain build, you know, and, you know, and then it was like the story of, do we test kids to see their genetics, which sport they should go into, you know, like study, I think it might have been that book. Where it was twins, and one of them had like the aerobic, because there is a robot and aerobic gene. Yeah, there's, I mean, they tested like they looked at two twins to see if it would apply or if they would adapt. And I want to say one did adapt over time or something like that. There's, I mean, the thing is you can adapt a lot, right? It's just that it's kind of like Stu McMillan says, like, you know, for sprinting, for example, right? Like genetics just gets you into ballpark, you know, like then you got to do all the other stuff, right? But like if you, if you don't have certain genetics, like you're never going to run subtan. You know, like it's just, it doesn't matter. Like you could train your whole life. And by the way, you would improve your speed dramatically. I think that's important to understand, but you just may not ever be able to be in the top 1% of sprinters in the world, right? Just, and it goes the same for I think other things like there is a pretty big genetic component, but I think people should not go like, oh, that's why I, you know, I can't do it now. Here's another. This is why I love varying off, but the gun. Correct. Yes, like epigenetics, right? It's like genetics load the gun. Epigenetics pull the trigger, right? Like your behaviors, your environment, all those different things. But then you look at different sports and you go, and I can't remember what I was listening to this. I swear I was listening to podcasts today about it, right? Like in tennis, you know, does physical, do physical abilities matter? Of course they do, right? Like, but not as much. Like skill is huge. Mental performance is massive in tennis, because you play so many points and you mess up and you got to recalibrate and come back. And you look at, you know, you'd look at guys like Federer or Novak Djokovic, right? Like, and by the way, extremely fit incredible athletes. But you wouldn't, you know, pull them out and go like, you know, that person's a savage in a weight room can sprint your fastest hundred, whatever, right? Where certain sports like, that is the kind of prerequisite, right? So, so there's all these different factors I think that kind of play into when it, when it comes to sport. What I love is that like, for most people, like you can push your boundaries in, you know, physiological boundaries like to pretty crazy levels, right? Like without being like, oh, I'm world class at this, you know, because the, the, the saying and the Olympics is like, right, you train for a hundred meter sprint, right? You train four years to finish less than 10 seconds, right? Like, and if you mess something up, like that's it, you know, then you got another four years of training. I got a good, this is going to sound so weird, bro, but because it has to do with Tarzan, but not weird at all. What you're saying, maybe it just like the epigenics conversation, even looking at like your history with basketball, like, imagine if you had a half a foot of height, just added to you, like, then all of a sudden you are genetically advanced. Now, would that lower your desire to work hard? Like, who knows? Tell a question. Tell a question. Yeah, I can't answer that. Yeah. I was taught, I was on a podcast. I think it was yesterday I was talking about this, or maybe it was on with Mike Robinson. I've done a bunch of podcasts this week, actually, but I was talking about we're giving advice like young trainers and seven, I was talking about how beneficial it was for me to be so young training with you guys that were all, I mean, the youngest person was probably 10 years older than me at the time, you know. And like, that did a lot for me. And when you were talking there about epigenics, and maybe think of like the best advice to give most people is to just surround yourself with people who are wiser than you, you can make better decision, people are stronger, you can get stronger. But I thought of Tarzan, because that's like, okay, the story of Tarzan, but in real life, maybe this would happen. You put a baby in the jungle and monkeys take care of it. What happens? He becomes basically an ape and he has different capabilities, different mobility, all stuff. Maybe you don't have the genetic component to just load the gun, but if you surround yourself with those people, and you're just patient, like you're going to become that way. Yeah, my lifestyle was so different before I met you, dude. And then I just not like intentionally just like I'm removing everybody from my life, but I essentially just moved into the gym. I just lived there with a group of people who are bigger than me stronger than me wiser than me smarter than me faster than me. And I just trained with them every day, like the rate at which I grew and the rate at which I developed muscle or strength and also learned what's significant. And it's like if you can just find people that are way ahead of you. It's the ultimate cheat code, man. It just is because I mean, environment is such a factor. And there's like, if you haven't read this, like I'm actually rereading it right now, gold mine effect. The gold mine effect is like this book that talks about like why mostly goes into sports, but like, why do the most high performers come from specific places? And there's all these like basic lessons of it, right? So why are Kenyans the best at long distance running? The argument was like, well, elevation was like, yeah, but look at all these other cities that are just as high or countries in place that are just as high, but you don't have these runners. And it goes into the history of it. But there's a there's the guy that wrote the book, you know, went out to Kenya, started running with the Kenyans. He's like, yo, the culture is like, did you get up in the morning and these guys run like at speeds for distances. And this, this dude was extremely good at running, by the way. He was just like, I just couldn't, it's like, you can't handle it. But guess what? You stick around and it's like all of a sudden, this is how they operate the Saudi opera. So the culture there is that way, right? Like, why, you know, why do half of the half of the time the best soccer player in the world is from Brazil and it talks about the culture of how you get to that. But my point being is to like, you know, if you are around, like for example, I have a very fortunate and grateful when I was 16, 16, 17 years old. My basketball coach knew this guy, Southern Georgia, crazy part, it's hard name to say for anyway, it's not from the Balkans, but he was like the elite track coach of Slovenia, right? Like he trained Merlin Adi in the last six years of career, but get the book of it's who was silver medalist in the Barcelona Olympics, 110 meter hurdles. And like, basically my coach goes, I got this crazy, crazy kid, like he just wants to dunk, like he'll do anything. And such a thing goes like, I haven't come in the morning before school to train and he thought like there's no way I'm going to be up at five o'clock and fucking going to, you know, train and stuff, right? Next week, my ass shows up, you know, and at the beginning, he was annoyed kind of because he's like, nice kid. But I bust my ass and I listen and like, I was very into it. And so eventually was like, okay, I like this kid, but I trained with the Gita Bucos, Olympian. Like she was top five in the world for, I don't know how many years and hurdles, right? And I'm like sprinting with sleds and doing full fire. And she's teaching me stuff and showing me like technique and, and I'm just like, I'm living in there. Like I don't even know how much I got by the way, you know, a year later, I dunk it. You know, it's like, hmm, how's that? We're doing plyometrics and bounding and like, and I'm doing it with Olympians, right? And it's like, I didn't even know how good it was until later on, you know, what I'm like, man, like we were doing EKG muscular testing before anybody knew what that was. This guy was ahead of his time, right? And environment. Like I think environments can also, you know, alter belief systems, you know, where, where the things you believe you can't do, but you get into these environments where everybody's like, well, you mean you can't, of course you can do it. You got work for it. You work for it. You work, you know, and all of a sudden your reality changes because your, your belief changes like, well, actually, maybe I can, you know, run this or jump this or, you know, I was not genetically gifted. I wasn't like, I didn't have horrible genetics, but they were, you know, okay, at best, right? But like, at my best, I had like a 40 inch vertical, you know what I mean? Like, and, but that was completely trained, but the belief of that I can train it and then around surrounding myself with the best people in the world to do those things is what led me there, right? Like so, dude, how many people don't end up where they could because they didn't feel like waking up at 5 a.m. when they were young, you know what I mean? Like a random situation, but similar, the similar thing of like, you didn't want to do that, but you wanted the result and you were willing to do whatever it took. I just can't only imagine how many times like people are like, I just don't run into the opportunity. No, you do. You're just pass it up because comfort settles in. I was actually talking about this the other day, too, about that belief tip. And there's a couple really cool experiments they did around it. But I think you can one bottle belief from other people, you know, and because the reason this came up in the podcast with Mike of this whole environment was because I was talking about how I borrowed belief from you when I was in college because I was seeing all these guest speakers come in and nothing against them. But I just couldn't relate. They're more in khakis and polos and their PT's and PT's are great, but I was not going to be a fiscal therapist. And then you walked in and it was like, oh shit, okay, he's doing it. Now I have a little bit of belief in myself because I see that he did it and I latched on to that. So the studies they did on this, there's two of them that are really, I think valuable. One is on kids and they took a group of kids are getting good grades and they split them apart. One group, they told them every day, you're so smart because of the grades. The other group, they were saying, you work so hard for those grades. The group they told you work so hard, continued to excel in school. The other group started to decline because they thought it was just this innate thing that's going to happen that they didn't have to do something for it. So the work so hard thing is like, that's been in my head so much ever since I read that because I have a daughter, so I'm constantly reinforcing what she did to get. So you're basically reinforcing the value of hard work versus like this innate ability that you're smart. Yeah, and that is in that one category. That hard work can be applied anywhere. The other one was actually, they made rats addicted to morphine and then they put them in these cages and basically gave them an option. You can drink water, you can drink the morphine lace water and have a little drip thing. And of course they went to the morphine lace water. Then they took these addicted rats and put them in a big cage altogether and there was water on one side and morphine on the other. And they all started slowly going to the water and detoxing, but only when they were around each other in the same cage, which is wild, but it shows community, culture, environment, you have to be around other people. It instills this desire or growth of like purpose because it's a, it's a together thing. Yeah, it's the same reason like, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you can be successful without anybody, but you choose to do something with Andy. Why? Because that's your boy and it's way more fun doing it with somebody and you hold each other accountable. You grow together, you share values, you share culture, you guys have your own things separately, but you can come together and do it. See, this is a, this is very important. I, I, this morning, I'm like one chapter away from being done with the way of excellence from Bastelberg and like the chapter was community, right? And it's like that, like we, in a sense, like you do have to have this internal, like individualism right where you grow, but it has to be part, like we do best when our individualism is part of a community. Because, because when you burn out or fall apart, whatever, if you have nothing to go to, meaning your community, those are the scenarios like where it gets bad. You don't, you don't have a support group to pick you up when you're down, you know what I mean to keep you accountable to, hey, go like, hey, man, maybe you should slow down a little bit or maybe you need help here. And so, you know, you got to be careful about, because it's like this, this balance, but we know, I mean, like you look at Sebastian Younger when he, you know, wrote tribes, and he was like that a lot of these soldiers in certain wars, like preferred to be in war. But not because of war, but because of brotherhood, right? It was like, man, us together, we're struggling against, you know, the enemy, like we're fighting for something against something. And it was, man, crazy story that like even in the, you know, the, the siege of Sarajevo, which is the Balkans, right? It's the war when the Yugoslavia, where I'm from, and they're talking about that a lot of people, you know, after the war missed the time during war. But not the, you know, it's like, because it sounds like, oh, no, no, but not the, not the, I would say the carnage and the death and all, you know, all those horrible, horrible things that happened, but it was the unity. It was the, it was the, you know, rich person that came and broke bread and played the guitar around the campfire with everybody else, and it was like there was a sense of belonging at a level that like, you know, most people can never experience. And like through this really, really hard time, right? So that word belonging that we all seek. So that part, the community part, you know, you can, it's set over and over and over again, you know, but I think that it's, there's a reason to it. There's more research behind that you can ever, you know, read in a lifetime. But it's like, man, surround yourself with like people that, that bring the standards of tribe up to where you want to be, right? Who do you want to be? And another cool, I know we're going to be, I'm throwing out a lot of books here. The alter ego effect, because you said the experiments of like, you know, whether you, you rewarded the, you know, your smart or hard work. They did these experiments with kids where it was just like, you know, this unsolvable puzzle, right? It's like it's unsolvable, but it's like, all right, like do your best, type us the scenario, right? And then it went to like one group of kids is just like, hey, just do it as, you know, as long as you can. The other group of kids go like, man, like who, like your Batman, right? Pretend that you're Batman. So then when they solve a, they get into the obstacle of not being able to solve the problem, the kids that were like, what would Batman do? Batman would keep trying. Like Batman, like the alter ego, right? Yeah, Batman would give up on this, right? And they worked, I don't know how much longer on the puzzle, just because it was just like their alter ego was like on Batman, right? Now you can replace it whatever you want. That's the whole premise of the alter ego effect is like you create an alter ego that it's almost like that's the borrowed, you know, belief system. And you see it in athletes all the time. And you know, why beyond say created Sasha, Sasha fears and, you know, like guys on a, like I train some players, you know, that kind of like nicest guys you ever meet, you know, it's like when they crossed that line, it's like they, you know, it's like Undertaker, you know what I mean? And it's like, I'm out here to like hurt people type of thing, right? Like that's an alter ego because that alter ego has to be there to perform at the level that they need to, right? And I think what we're talking about sometimes is is when you enter communities with a certain belief system and principles, you're kind of like, you know, but you're not there yet, that's the alter ego, it's the alter ego of the group, right? Like man, like, well, when I'm here, man, like I got a show up like this. And then I turn it on and I turned it off. And it's a very valuable thing because I've gone through hard stuff in life where I feel like I've had to, you know, turn to a certain alter ego. You don't mean like, but, but that's very, very beneficial. Man, I do. Real quick, and then we can go to the next one, because I know this has nothing to do with GPP anymore, but this is crazy, because this is the opposite. And it's gonna sound funny, but we've done this with clients. And this particularly has worked well with female clients on like weight loss during East and such, creating the alter ego that is attached to the bad habits you're trying to get rid of. So, for example, when we broke this down in an area, all my staff like used it as a demonstration, her alter ego was Gretchen, but she isn't relate or resonate with Gretchen. Gretchen's the one that drinks too much or eats the shit at night and like, does all these bad things, but the cool thing about that is it's kind of like that, that bad, you know, demon or devil spirit on your shoulder. You can name it exactly. What's you name it? And there's research around there. It's like fucking Gretchen. Gretchen is not me and it's like you separate your identity from Gretchen. And the cool thing about that too is if you're around the wrong community or the wrong environment or there's the wrong food or the wrong habits, the wrong anything, you instantly are like, that's a Gretchen circle. I need to remove myself and you can actually step away. Now, I don't personally have this, this isn't something that I do in my head necessarily. But it's like, I think Andy Priscilla, I haven't listened to his Parkinson's, but I remember he used to talk about like, maybe just called like the little bitch voice or something like that. That's trying to talk you out of doing something. It's the same idea. But like if you can kind of, I mean, I don't know if that's technically a sociopath, but you have that like split personality in a way where you can see that side of you in this side of you and acknowledge like that is the side that's trying to bring me down. This is the side of trying to lift me up. You can at least identify better habits and better environments with the you you're trying to be and identify with. Yeah, I think that that's like it said awareness strategy because you're an observer. You're like, I mean, I think that's part of like, how do we change is like that you're able to recognize things. And I think that if you give things sometimes names or bucket things, right? It's like, oh, hold on. You know, this, you know, let me let me, it's kind of like naming your emotions like, you know, you're sharing like how you're feeling and those things matter, right? And research shows that, but I mean, I do think that's a, that's a cool strategy. It's a good strategy for anybody who hasn't talked about it. Find some, send us some names that you're going to name your non non doable behaviors. All right. You got the second one. Bring up that second roundtable question. All right. This one gets into just the dynamics of coaching when a client is technically compliant with macro slash training, but their life is a mess, sleep, stress, family relationships work, whatever it is, how do you coach the human without overstepping your scope. Great question. So I'll just say this just to kick it off, dude, I don't, I remember being taught in school that we have a scope of practice, but like I threw that shit out the window a long time ago. And I will just preface any advice that I give somebody, for example, if somebody is going through a relationship issue and they're confiding in me, they obviously want some kind of help. And if I preface it with, I'm not a relationship expert, but here's what I'm hearing. Here's what I see. Here's what I would think or if a female is going through pregnancy and she's dealing with stuff or menstrual cycle cravings and hormonal stuff. I don't understand what it's like to be in your position, but I do get that you're going through something difficult. And now it's like the barrier kind of drops and it's easy. It's an easy way to word the conversation to be able to like kind of step into what they're actually feeling. And also, I think the permission based questions, you know, I think that like is a big one where you go, like let's say you preface that, but like, have you open a hearing what's work for some other people or, you know, some suggestions of things that I've learned and heard and that, you know, because then it's like, yeah, I would love to, right? So it's like, hey, I'm not, it's kind of like when you got to go on a show and be like, you'll buy this stock, by the way, I'm not a financial expert, you know, or I'm not, you know, I think that that matters. But at the same time, like if people are asking you for your advice, you can, you know, it's kind of like nutrition in certain states where it's like, you know, you can't give, oh, like you have this disease. And I'm like, this is what you got to eat. It'll heal it. Like that's fucking illegal, right? But what we can do is give nutritional guidance that's safe. And like this will for sure help you, you know, feel better, have more energy lose weight. Like we can create, we can give guidance on things. And I think it's the same thing here that if people, I will say, confide in you, trust in you, right? I do think there's a responsibility of not saying stupid shit. But, but hey, but here's the thing. This is why this is what I think, though, like, I believe as a coach, like you have to master behavior change. Like you're not a psychiatrist or psychologist, but you have to understand psychology, you have to understand habits, you understand behavior change, because it's all like all of our things are bio cycle social. Like it's all into related, right? Like you don't, you know, I think maybe maybe we were having this conversation was what was talking about how a parents of a friend of mine started and stopped smoking all the time, right? Like they just couldn't stop smoking and like basically my friend was like, well, what they weren't willing to give up was that like group of friends, all the friends smoke. It's like there was just like we're just not willing to give it up, you know, tough, but like bio cycle social, right? Like there's a social aspect to it. It was all intertwined. Like they knew they wanted to stop because like this not healthy for us, but at the end they just couldn't because it's like this means we have to give up or like relationship with these long time friends that all smoking are not going to stop smoking, right? And it's complex. So to, you know, to compartmentalize all this stuff and be like, well, you know, you can say each of vegetables, but you can't, you know, recommend, like that's crazy to me, right? So, you know, to kind of go back to the like, what do you do? I think, I think everything in life is like this, okay? I'm going to give a video game analogy, fucking I love video game analogies, right? But like, I think a lot of fitness is the equivalent to, you know, when, when video game designers create a game, like this is a huge thing for, for the success of the game. is that you are able to start the game and it's kind of like a little challenging, but you're going to get wins, like a little win little so you keep playing because the video game creator wants you to keep playing the game, right? Now, level 57 is going to fuck you up, but guess what? You play so long that like, you're good enough to world level 57 is like a little too hard for you got to keep working on it, right? I think that in, in, when it comes to behavior, change in fitness, nutrition, lifestyle, sleep, all that stuff, a lot of people get dropped into level 57, you know what I mean? And it's like, you're so for us that is so quick, you're like, fuck this game, I'm not playing this game, you know, and it's like, well, you got to put them into level one. And I think part of the art and science of coaching is like knowing what level one is, like level one, if you were like, hey, Luca, I want to become the most athletic I've ever been in my life, right? And we have to figure out what level one is for you right now, right? You're level one, be a lot of people who's level fucking 50 to 42, 452, whatever, right? And so that's the game. So when you look at stuff like that and somebody's like, all right, let's look into your sleep. You know, by the way, I might not even touch the relationship side yet, you know what I mean? Like it's or give any advice or whatever, like, hey, can we get this person sleep better? And then there's like, what's level one for them? Hey, do you have a sleep routine? How do you know? And try this little thing. Let's work on that for two, three weeks. How does that go home for you? You know, and it's like, it's a little better. You get a win. And by the way, it might take a year or two, like, who knows? But can we affect, you know, I always said, like a great coach, I think now, if you're a great coach, you're a lifestyle manager. Like if all they do is come and train and we have fucking amazing sessions, and it's just havoc, everything in the rest of their life is havoc. You know, like, we're going to get a very, very limited result. We'll get some results probably, but like, we got to be able to affect their, you know, stress management, sleep and nutrition. And hopefully to, you know, I would say put seeds in their mind where they go like, you know, like, I don't know if this group of people is the right people to hang around with. And I always, like, I'm always stressed out when I'm with them. They're always out drinking. They're, and eventually, you know, not like in month one, but maybe month 11, they're like, yeah, I just don't go out with them anymore. But man, like, I'm going out with some people from the gym. They're awesome. You know, we go for a hike and we do this that the other. So I think it's that analogy of like, one, become really good, you know, like study communication at the highest levels, you know, you can start with crucial conversations, motivational interviewing and nutrition and fitness. The coaching habit, co-active coaching, those are all like really good, you know, get really good at them. And then, you know, learn how to be able to break down skills into practices to smaller levels. I think actually most coaches struggle with that. They don't know how to deconstruct like skills, you know, and skills might be like eating more protein. Like, how can you deconstruct that to like really small steps? Because for some people, that really small steps going to be level one, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, and I think a lot of times too, a lot of coaches fear that they're not giving enough value. So they assume they got to give all these steps. Right. You don't give them one step. Then they actually get that win like you talked about in the video game analogy. They feel way better at the end of the week instead of overwhelmed and ghosting you. So having the confidence as a coach and as through your system, I think it's important. The other part is that when we compartmentalize it and we're looking at those two buckets, I think that what I would say is you have the strategy side. That's in our scope of practice. Program design sets reps, macros, numbers, things like that. That is like that. That's our scope. We systemize that we can give strategy relationships, lifestyle management, stressors, those things are not really strategy based. That's where we should be empowering the client to create behavior change. Because I mean, you said all time awareness procedure change. You have to start becoming aware. So if they come to you, they're already aware that they want to change it. Nine times at a 10, they already know what to do. I mean, coming from somebody runs a company that primarily works with weight loss individuals, which would be like our categories. Genpo, weight loss, middle age, that would be like the prime crop of people with physiological issues that stop them, whether it's hormones or like metabolic adaptation. 95% of time there's nothing going on whatsoever. It's just that they're getting in their own way and they're pointing the finger at something else, which is fine. I get it. We have to open their eyes to the things. But it's it's those people that we can really just get them to see the changes, acknowledge the change they're coming to us with and then just ask them the right questions. There's, I don't want to be little therapy because I think therapy is really powerful and there's a lot of different forms therapy. But like the basis of regular therapy is somebody, it's a safe space where you don't care what you say because you're not going to get judged and somebody's going to basically ask you questions and poke holes in your answers. As coaches, we can do that too. Give them a safe space. Ask them questions as to how they became aware of what this thing that they have an issue with is why do they have an issue with it? What is causing the issue? Who's involved with the issue? Are there any scenarios or places that are involved with the issue? Is there a time of day that's with the issue? What what precedes the issue? What follows the issue? So we're just becoming aware of everything. By the time we ask all these questions and ask what they want to change, they know what's healthier, pop tart or broccoli. They know the answer to it. They don't need us to tell them that strategy. They need us to hold them accountable. They need, they need somebody to ask them a question to get them to admit the change that needs to happen. We can just hold their hand through the process. I think that's honestly the best way to create behavior change while then I love all of it, but I love program design. Then you can do the fun stuff with strategy and that's the paper, put the pen to paper and write a program, write a diet, that kind of stuff. The thing is, you said a good point because you're asking questions. I always say, you're trying to help them trip over their own truth. You shine a light on things because there's the same reason why I like, I'll hire a coach somewhere, right? Because I can't read the label inside of the bottle, right? And the coach goes like, hey, did you notice this? And because I'm inside the bottle, I'm like, I can't read, you know, what? Oh, no, I didn't notice that. Yeah, here's what's happening. So now I'm aware, but maybe I wasn't looking at that. And I think we, you know, coaches, communities, they all, like that's the whole point is like that they shine a light. You know, ask good questions, reveal things, reveal things that they're inside of you. It's like, I'm not creating anything. It's like, you know yourself better. If we can unravel the bullshit, right? And then from there, it's like, you know, some people know what to do next. And if they don't, it's like, hey, you open the suggestions. You know, you open a hearing what's worked for others. And it's like, you give them three things and like, which one do you want to choose? So there's still autonomy behind it, right? Like, oh, I can choose one of these three things, right? And so I think that is a big, big part. And I do think for coaches, what you said earlier, and I know I was in this phase too. You know, I'm probably still fine myself in it as well as like, I learned so much, I study so much, you want to be like, oh, here's all the stuff that's wrong in your fucking life. You know, like, do this, I'm so smart. Look, I know. And really, you're hurting the client because it's like, they're overwhelmed. Like, they're just freeze. They can't, you know, versus giving them just enough, you know, to beat level one, they go to level two, build a little more confidence. So that's also why it's important to have friends that are coaches too, man, because sometimes there's stuff that you want to like scream at the client. Like, I know this stuff. Let me tell you about it. But it's like, don't talk to your buddies about it because you hit the nail head. It's just going to overwhelm, you know, I would much rather just give them what they need to know in the moment and then drip feed them the knowledge as time goes. I was talking to a client the other day and just the way I framed it to him is like, we can know that the process is very important no matter what, but the client is hiring us for the outcome. So if you're sitting there like jamming the process and the education down the throat, it's not going to click. You got to like, you got to tell them what they want and give them what they need and sometimes give them what they need needs to be dripped feed throughout the process. I wanted to give shout out to our sponsor, Train Heroic. And not only is it our sponsor, it is the number one coaching goals best coaching platform out there. And it's something I've used for many years. As you may know, it's like my athlete for life online programs are on a Train Heroic platform. But we also use Train Heroic or our semi-private personal training program design at VIGGY Brown Fitness and Performance or coaches use it. I use it. And it is the best platform to create and manage training programs. You can get instant updates from your athletes, your clients, and it's a great way to scale your coaching business. And basically it's a tool to help you accelerate your business and cut down on time. Now the thing is, I create programs and they're so fast, especially when you have a database of exercises, but you can really use my own as well. And it's just a phenomenal tool to be able to grow your business, brick and mortar, and/or online. And if you're a coach and just start your own account, go to trainheroic.co/vigorlifepodcast. Again, that's trainheroic.co/vigorlifepodcast. You know what? I'm going to pull up this file. This is crazy. I didn't actually even have this plan. But this is a little deeper, right? Because there are different types of, I would say, four types of people prospects. You know, because you mentioned like most people don't want to know. There is one type of prospect that does want to know. So you got fact introvert. These are analytical folks, right? Their fear is to be taken advantage of. Okay. They're reserved. So like they don't, they want to say much because their fear, their fear is being taken advantage of. So they want facts and figures more details. They need lots of information. They talk slow and monotone and so they can be understood. So there will be stuff like this. You probably heard it, right? How come last time you said two sets and now it's three sets? How come I'm going up five pounds on a bench press? And so here's some things you can say to help those people, by the way, research shows. Like the ideal number of sessions for you to get started is going to be two. 75% of our members become elite small or most effective program, right? If you come in with a fact and a fact introvert and say when you come in here, it's going to be like a part, you know, party every day. You're going to love it. That's not going to resonate with them. So it's funny because like I was studying this stuff back in the day. And I'll fly through these just to kind of, you know, fact introvert is analytical. Then you got fact extrovert with the boss. You know, fear is not being a success. Confident assertive wants to be the leader talks loudly. Yeah, I bench 400 in high school. So I know everything there's to know about bench press, you know, I got you in your program, you know, they just they just take a look at it without knowing what it is. You know, what you can say to those folks is like armor most successful, successful members do this your best chance to success is doing this. You know, what do you think is the biggest benefit of having a personalized program. Then you got relationship introvert go along with the crowd important right fear is not fitting in doesn't like confrontation easily influence. Trust people to fall may not take action unless everyone else is doing it. And it speeches very reserved right and they want to be liked fit in melted to the crowd. They do like to be around people is just how they process information. So language for relationship introvert is like here's someone with some goals. Same as you and here's what they found right. You're the perfect fit for our gym you belong here many of our members are just like you they did this understand how you feel out of my members feel the same way here's what they found. And then there's a relationship, which is fun loving fear is lack of approval doesn't like the plan likes to be spontaneous speeches bouncy energetic always moving and fidgeting so I it's funny because like I had this open in in notes for some sale stuff that I did. But there it you know this is where you go to depth and you go. Some people are analytical and like they liked them. Well, you know actually matter fact I found a research study that you know they're like oh yeah you know some person some person's just like I don't give a shit about that. You know what is there but well see those people that got like lost 40 pounds this is what they're doing you know and it's like oh man like you your advanced dude like you need to be in our league program like. And you can have these different folks that have these different psychological factors funny like we didn't even we didn't even plan to talk about that but. But to me that's there's levels to it you know like went to sales to coaching to mindset to psychology and like the I get kind of like fired up about this because. I mean just in the last couple weeks whether it was here a vigor or I'm with another coach for coffee couple weeks ago and it's like oh yeah yeah like all you got to do is you know like the coaching is this and I'm like. Listen that the guy that plays basketball at the YMCA is playing basketball the guy playing basketball and the you know NBA finals is playing basketball what's the level like one person making a hundred million a year one person's like you know I don't spreading his ankle every Sunday right like there's levels to this right like and it's like that's coaching like yeah like if you're like you know you just like training you come in you blast the music that's like the 0.3 level of coaching and then there's like you know I don't think a 10 exists but then you got the elite elite right whereas like you see exactly who the person is and you communicate with them differently and now you can influence them differently and most people like. Why did you say the different thing to them then to them and it's like because that's right yeah you remember one of the first days. I might have been still an intern maybe I was working but I remember you telling me to be a chameleon specifically because I had like I would have. 19 or 20 year old Hooper and then I'd have a 67 year old dude that is just trying to work on hit mobility and stuff you know. You have to be able to blend but I ask a question on sales calls and stuff sometimes and it's just like basically what is the one thing on your mind. You know before you go to the next steps like what is the one thing on your mind because I want to know like what questions they have that they're just thinking about instead of saying what questions you have because you do get the people that have like a notebook in there like. I can see that they wrote some notes before which is that analytical person but that question the one recently literally said it was actually this week he said what are the top commonalities of your best clients. What are the best clients do and it's that first example you get or maybe it was the second example that you gave. But it made me think man for coaches if you can have a question like that or even a few that gets clients to answer in a certain way so that you can kind of predict what personality type they are. You know for me that helps me pair them with the right coach but also helps me give the coach the information of hey this is this kind of person so treat it this way. You know reach out ASAP because quick delivery is important for them get on a call and talk them like this or about this and. That stuff goes so far because that that mental connection and that human interaction is so it's kind of like neuro typing but not programming so much as it is just that communication element. No it's it really matters you know since you like I brought up a book I'm trying to see if it's around here it's called the coaching habit. I'm going to give you like not one of these ten thousand but it's one of them. I think I have that when it whole like it's funny like which books I have here at the gym they're more training and nutrition and kind of like in that home I have more. I mean there's like almost a thousand books here and there's about a thousand books at home so there's a lot of them but it used to be here but I think I took it home. So actually I told you see the coaching habit right there. Yeah even know what the books are damn so is there seven questions and like these. This is a cheat code go read the book right but if you're sitting down with any person. This is a great way to get them to be clear right so you start with what's on your mind and like you'll you know let's say if we sat down like code was on your mind and you say something right. But instead of just like taking that for like the thing that's on your mind I said what else. And then you say something else and then what else what else you know so the first questions what's your mind the second question is like what else right because you want to kind of. Clear it out and then once there's like like now there's nothing else cool okay now what's the church real challenge here for you. Because now you said a lot of stuff that's on your mind but now you got to pick like what's the real challenge you're like. Okay it's this right and then even there I'd probably say like well what else and you might be like nothing else that's the challenge right that's the challenge for me and then from there you go. Well what do you really want from me right and that's the coaching part right so now like we figured out what's on your mind we cleared it up to like narrowed it to like a challenge like. What do you want from me like how can I support you how can I help you right with this thing and so what you want from me and then how can I help you like they go. Pan in hand right because then that opens up the like the guidance part the strategy part the inside part right. And now once once you get to a place where we figure out a next step because that's the whole point could be a big big next step small back step is like okay cool all right now if you say yes to this what are you saying no to. I like okay I'm going to I'm going to go to sleep earlier okay what are you going to say no to then. Should I watch three hours of land man you know whatever it is right and and so so now it's like okay well we got to we got to clear this up if you're okay with that awesome like we got a next step just know you have to say no to something right. Because you put something in your place something and then last one is like what was the most useful for you here's the reason why right because if we have a coaching conversation if the last question. Put the spotlight on the fact that that was useful well was really useful for me is actually clarifying my thoughts and getting a next action will step like I feel a lot less anxious okay awesome rate cool talk next time whatever may be right now look I'm I'm not saying the book is not deeper than this but but the point of it is I when I first time read the book. Man I all I did every day was ask people these questions just like new client ask question coach ask you know I would just practice it a lot to kind of see and I was like wow like I can actually have a micro coaching scenario where like in five six seven minutes I go through this right like and sometimes it's not even linear right it's like they'll just say one thing and it's like what's on your mind like that's it. Bowman we go straight into like hey how can I help you like what you want you know but my but the thing is how do you get good at this stuff well you know I probably did that hundreds of times and then you know the benefit for me was that because I do business coaching for for Jim owners is like. We have a webinar call you know and it's like all right guys Q&A somebody's like well tell me what's on your mind what's the challenge here you don't. Bam I'm going straight into practicing that thing so I think that there's that that whole loop of how do you get better at stuff is like you know you learn it. You teach it you practice it you learning to teach it you practice you learn to teach you practice like all the time and you know all of a sudden like I will just start doing this ship completely. You know it's like unconscious competence right like I'm asking the questions and I'm like oh well I'm just asking these questions without having like the four by six card or like thinking about it you know I think to like be coaching being a part of your identity is so helpful you know and I think it becomes natural over time but I think coaches should strive to be that way because I even think of man I'll read a book on relationships and I'm thinking of my wife of why I'm trying to learn this but then all of a sudden I found myself doing it in coaching relationships because it's the same thing. And when you ask questions like that people feel heard and sometimes it's the first time they've ever felt heard and behold my wife just wants to be heard you know what I mean I don't have to solve the problem that's the part where you got to stop the coach is I'm trying to solve the problem because that's how my nature I would say this still the road black for me. Oh dude it's tough it is so hard you want it like that is like a huge block do not give advice yeah listen but when I I saw that and it made sense and I'm like oh okay so now a coach relationships the same thing you got it but you're not there. Husband or why so you do have to say what else five times and then once you get that they finally feel heard they feel like they got off their chest but the best part is they do want your coaching advice so they get coach but I do think that. Man I talked to my neighbors about something random and I find myself put my coaching hat on you know any like any moment I can my daughter I'm more likely to stay calm in a situation so I can teach her a lesson because my brain goes to positive focus. What happened how can I apply how can I help wise a positive that stuff is just so powerful in your life you know and I think this is obviously word bias because we're coaches but for all coaches if you can just treat. Every day every scenario in your life that way I mean I believe part of the purpose of life is to help others it's just serve others to give you feel way better giving than you do receiving and if you can just spread that in your life in different areas one you get way better at coaching so if anything else you'll build a bigger business you'll be more successful but it's so fulfilling and you get so much better at it you know. And the thing is like the two it's like a two box of two box of skills right yeah there's funny is like I I think the people make a mistake it I learned this about like for example marketing right like if if if you asked most people and say like I'm a teacher you know it's like what it does does that help you as a coach you know and when I learned that it does because marketing is about copies about words about motions about influence about storytelling right. It's like okay well we do a ton of that like to be a great coach need a ton of that so these buckets kind of overlap right like if you're a great storyteller helps you with writing it helps with marketing helps you with coaching right helps you with influence for sure. But then the thing is like if I'm great on video like it helps with this helps with this you know what I mean if you're if you're great at communication asking questions like being a master question ask her I don't even know if that's just made that term up but. That will help you in a lot of ways right so if you can just think about like these sets of skills that honestly like if you were to leave a profession and go into another one like you'd be way more valuable because you know how to do it right and I think that there's there's a lot same thing with sales. You know like I joke with Pat all the time but like you know he's built those sales skills and what I was like you got you got to build your listening skills and you got way better listening and it helped him with sales you know it's like they it's all correlated so I think there's a. As a human being I think it's good to zoom out and for for to have people to go like you need to work on the skill of you know fill into blank like my really big one was that I had a friend of mine just go like. You like you interrupt people so much you know and I was like what it's like do I don't know if you I don't think you notice it but it's like it's like I know you have good intentions because you want to share like all you you know your energy and I read but it's like you interrupt people and I went I practice for months and months and months just like when somebody would say something I will let them say it and for five seconds pause or five count and then me say something one of the hardest things I ever did. But it's like that was that was a practice for me to improve my skill of listening right to understand not just to hear and you know until that person didn't go like dude like you know two thirds of the way through your already interrupting right but by the way will that help you with your relationship fuck yes. Well I hope you with coaching hell yeah what about just people being you know because otherwise people are like what a dick always interrupting me right versus like all being attentive look into their eyes okay they're done. Not in a little bit and then like three four five seconds later you respond right or ask a question to get interested so these are all like I think some skills are universal you know I think that we're losing now which is you know communication. But hopefully I hope because I I bucket everything like do I need to improve this skill that's a good friend to that's the thing I think there's. It's funny you say that because I there's somebody I can think of they do a podcast together and I'm friends with both of them and one of them does that together and it drives me crazy and I haven't said anything but I've been thinking about texting yeah I'm not saying you need a voice man whatever right now hey listen listen to this episode that we shot yeah okay at 48 you have take away at xyz minutes like this is what I want you to want you to do. But no that's I mean like I say that only just because if anybody's listening and you could think of somebody you care about that does need to work on something don't tuck it in because you don't want her their feelings because meanwhile if there is people that for that example felt that way but didn't want to say anything it's like damn you're going you're going do how many people did that bug that never said anything to you know I could could have been nobody but now it's a good skill to have but it could have been a lot of people you know and then you're like mad that nobody said it sooner even though it doesn't feel good to hear I post this accountability is a love language you know he's like yeah kind of bills love language all right we're gonna go fancy I knew this I knew it never get through these but that's okay. Okay. Do you think I'm going to get towed. Yeah, just no no you will not almost for sure you're giving me to the place if it gets towed. Yeah, no like it's it's really hard to get towed in that in that spot there were every parts of parking spots. Yeah, no you're good. Yeah. All right next one for the gym owner trying to go online or vice versa. What are the three non-negotiable systems that must be in place to keep the quality of coaching high in both environments. Okay, I got like I shit you not whatever I guys for built to last like I had a one-on-one call with him this week and there was a question about like man I'm really thinking about doing the kind of additional revenue you know from online stuff. This is my advice to him and like and honestly for most people I would give them this advice. Don't. But hey but oh but dot dot dot but here's here's where I went to it. Okay, I said look I say how many people last year in in 2025. Left the gym you know turnover and it's like they have I mean they don't have high attrition but still is like. I don't know 30 40 whatever amount of people right. I was like okay well you know probably like a third of those people moved some of it might be financial. They train a lot of athletes and specific specifically across and. So I was like okay thing about this if you got 15 of those people 12 of those people on a $250 a month remember they already trust you they like you you got a results I mean they've been with you you know their customer lifetime values really good right. Like if you got 12 of those people on a $250 a month online coaching and support that be three grand a month right and you would have never ran a ad never had a landing page never it was just like people that like you're. Continuing to serve them help them when nutrition with training you know on an app. Some you know we can talk about deliverability of stuff but like nonetheless it's like now if you have more members maybe that numbers. I mean shit when I looked at 2023 which we had some I would say retention problems. You know I imagine like man what if we got 20 of those people 30 of people online coaching. That was the route I wanted to go because now you already have a deliver deliver deliverability deliverability system of coaching program design maybe it's train heroic maybe it's bridge maybe it's whatever right. Whether you do you know we have a form that goes out through email so on so forth right. It's already in place so you're already doing the thing now you're just now coaching them longer distance you know you can add like hey maybe do a. Zoom call once a month whatever you want to do right whatever you want to plug into it but now you're practicing online coaching without having to do all the other stuff it's kind of baked into your business and you're learning the skills of it so that was my number one thing number two. I was like make a lead magnet for this audience specifically across you know and it was like hey two week template that elite because train elite little cross players right nutrition and training like. That's a very good download people will download a six to eight page thing consume it you know and now you build a list and it's like go organically push the shit out of it again for two to three weeks now we're in some ads behind it let's say you get a list of five six seven hundred people right like. And then launch eight week PDF because why it's like it's low lift like in a you can work your face off for a weekend and get that shit done like I'm sorry like you know. If if if you don't then you're just not you don't know your stuff you don't mean but like I sat down I built compound V maybe it took me like probably a couple weekends. You know and it was in depth but it's like when I launch my first kind of training PDF and it really well but. The thing is like what you do now you're dabbling in that world with very low lift you know mean and you don't take your eye of the product because my main thing was like man if you start doing all of this to build this big online coaching business or whatever maybe you don't even know if you like it. Number two is going to take energy away from your gym like you got goals for twenty twenty six that are significant goals right like. So it's like that essential isn't like the little circle with a ton of arrows that are going around you know if you put all those arrows into one arrow like you move forward way more so. That that was like you know and I think for most people it's one of those things that like how do you go to level one you know that we talked about earlier online coaching for some people might like take on three to four clients yeah. And then you know two times one and a half hours per week is managing that you know sending out proactive reactive emails or messages on on an app if you have it. You know making the programs maybe don't even eat that right and it's like you're like man I can handle this is great cool take on to three more people you know and there's and by the way there's a limit to everybody's bandwidth. I know my bandwidth you know I didn't even try to build online business I got to like seventeen online clients because people just hit me up like I want to do online coaching with you and I was like okay cool it's this much. And then I got to sixteen seventeen and I was like fucking I hate this like and by the way I didn't have a good system for it I was the other thing. I realized I didn't like coaching so I was like man this is not my I don't want to build this right now like I know I could but I don't want to right. And the way that you do that is like that you do these kind of almost like experiments right these like sprint experiments so like when I was talking to to I said a guy in B2O it was exactly that like. Hey man like you got these sprints these simple like low lift tasks that can actually you know move the need a little bit but then you'll learn if you want to do it if you like doing it. I mean but like I mean you live in that world so like you won't you'll probably have I was I was interested what you're going to say and then you said don't and I was like yeah. I think that I mean look like this is coming from somebody who I run on my business I have a brick and mortar technically like I have a full gym. I have a HQ basically for your online coaching business I am choosing to not open it up public now I have talked to I've talked to somebody I trust because there was a potential of like basically letting them run something there. Because I agree with his methods and everything and obviously would help lease and I've thought about even opening up but not for any other reason outside of just having. Bodies in there for like my own person selfish need to be around people yeah yeah nothing else otherwise I've zero desire to do it and it's not because you know it's probably the same with you. I love in person training but I'm an all my coach so if I if I started doing that I wouldn't love it because I it be another thing I have to try to figure out and worry about. So I don't know man to me I'm like it's I would rather be the greatest at my one thing then like also add another thing that a mediocre at especially if it's like I have the potential to be great and I think but I can't because I don't have the capacity to do it and I think. It's this might be a bad analogy but it be like if I'm a baseball player and I have baseball games every week but I decide I can throw a ball pretty well I'm going to play tennis throughout the week to and practice that like why like what's the point. What you do really well and be known for that above all else so especially you know what you know what I think that when you said that here's here's where I think things go wrong right. I think that like because a person hasn't achieved the thing that they want in the space they're in you know coach Jim owner whatever it's like it is really easy to go like well maybe I should do this online coaching thing right. And by the way like look sometimes it might be the right thing to do I don't know but but the truth is what I've found this is just from my experience especially you know coaching people is that they haven't really gone like all into the level that they need to you know in in the craft that they want to excel and so for example. Yes and I remember like I remember vividly how many people I've talked to and like this is what I'll tell him you know they're like man I love coaching but like I'm ready to leave the space and do this that the other and I'm like look. You know I'm like on the scale 110 how much effort do you feel like you put into this thing like just dialed in all in effort you know. And then people will go like I don't man I feel like I'm working really hard and then I'll be like okay are you doing this are you doing this are you doing this are you doing this are you don't like I'll ask some questions right. You got a coach you got a mentor have you done this have you went to a course did you go through a seminar did you what about this you know I'm like okay. In my eyes like you're four out of 10 I was like my advice to you is this for the next year one year. Go nine out of 10 10 out of 10 every day I mean more yeah and it's like and if after the end of the year. You haven't made significant progress where you're like shit like I man my rate of progress is so just good enough to where now motivated again because of course like man like if you if you're. I'm making shit up but like let's say you're stuck at like 10 clients like man I can't do this right. But then in the next year you go from 10 to 30 you can still be like I want to know you probably like holy shit I've tripled my business like all right I got momentum now I feel I can do it so that but I. The people that I talk with it's like they haven't gone like really all in it's like too much dabbling and I think you know and part of that then becomes like while thinking about going online and be like well why. You know now listen if you're by the way if you're a coach that's like I'm doing 50 one on one per week you know like yeah. Okay shit well why don't you raise your rates why don't you go to semi private why don't you there's like there's strategies left and right why don't you hire another coach want. You know but and it may be it may be that like. Hey like maybe you can you know do 21 ones per week and do online coaching but you probably are already. Like established there's a reputation you know there there's again there's levels to the video game I'm glad I made that analogy is like man like every you're jumping in a level 57 man like no like go back to level one and build it up. Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements a lot of brands say that they're top quality but you can actually prove it which is exactly why I partner with momentus. I've actually been taking them for seven years and love their way protein it's actually the only way protein that my girlfriend can take as she has ulcer colitis and it doesn't record stomach and she loves the taste and the quality. 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My favorite supplements on the planet make sure you take advantage of it. The simple things that need to be done in order to go from good to great are harder to do than it is to say I might dabble in this or maybe I'll do this because now I can direct my focus to something that is going to happen. It's a lot easier for me to say what I'm going to do someday than it is to just start doing shit right now. And I did it so funny I had a conversation with the same exact idea with a client I was like they it was a lead gen problem and so I'm like alright I'll help you with that but before we talk marketing and ads or anything like that are you like how many people are you reaching out to about referrals how many reactivations like are you looking at old clients to see what happens are you connect with any local people in your environment how many emails do you send per week what do you do it like all these basic stuff I'm like when was the last time you DM to somebody who engages with all your content but they've never bought anything. Ask them if you can help them that there was so many things that he just said no no no no no I do all that and if you don't gain a lot in the next three to six months like I'll be shocked first of all then but you do that shit before you spend money on ads or spend money on marketing or beer to a new thing like online coaching you know so to me again. Putting in the effort to be great at your one thing which also makes like the actual question about like what systems and stuff it makes that way easier because I would probably recommend a different coaching software for somebody online that I would in the gym for programming you know so it changes constantly and then you got to think about it well now I have to. I'm not going to use two different softwares but then you have one that's optimized for online and then you're in person stuff sucks or vice versa it's like and like this is the thing too like and you know this one you guys you know for online have a really long customer lifetime value for online but comparable to like in person it's short yeah but for online it's long right like so you have to take into account that like to high turnover how many more like for example we got a lot of I mean right now especially that we're going to allow. You know especially that we're getting a lot of leads a bigger like a lot right like but I'm we're getting leads from Google SEO from a yo from you know from our Facebook ads from a Google ad words from our email is from like organic social through walk in traffic hide the blah blah blah blah right goes on and on now my point is. What is your current lead gen right and then if you're online like you might have to like 10X that to get to where you want to go because your turnover is going to be big right like in the question you probably asked that person like what's your current. Customer lifetime value of online client you know it's like oh it's 2.2 months it's like okay I means every 2.2 months you're going to lose the client and you have to get new client so like let's crunch the number you know because most people don't do the numbers to like what how many leads you have to even get. To be able to build the business that you want to build yeah now crazy example and it's like. I like you know same thing call with with um kept this week and B2 on they crushed it this year we went over I mean they crushed. But it was like we went through 4 buckets and it was like okay let's let's see what's going on and like number 1 their ads they they crush on ads I'm like you got a q1 you got to spend 3 acts of what you're spending just killing it you know. Number 2 like how many emails are you sending and by the way they do a good job but I was like yeah but you can double that like you will get more sales right yeah upsells on all offers. Right like a lot of products a lot of product sales no upsells add up sells right and then build new products every time there's a new launch kills it so you kind of look at 2026 and we're like. You know do this this this this this and at this not like you're not going to do it all at once you're going to do it on stages right but my point to it is that like first you have to go like. What is going on and what you end up realizing most of the time that all these basic things are just not being done right and I like we're a meeting at a bigger the big meeting us the guys like there's going to be nothing like. Absolutely specter like there's there's stuff that I'm working on that are like. Kind of this really tactical things strategic things you know a articles and like all that stuff right like. And but I'm like like we will have a massive success if we don't let things fall through cracks every new person we ask for a for like we have a current like we have a member to just sign up that has sent us five referrals and less than 14 days and we're just like. You know like let's get him a gift instantly but it was like these little things that we just do exceptionally well like that's going to be the whole damn year follow up follow up great job with people great onboarding great results and experience like it's not going to be some like I figured out this fucking. You know one add strategy and so you have to unravel and just go with which you realize a lot of times that what people are doing is like putting a lot of or like I either little energy or the energy is going to things that move the needle. Not at all right and so I think I think I think both those answers are pretty good but if you got want to add something there too I want to just in like. If I call myself that guy it sounds very conceited so if I but if I call you that guy it's just like a compliment you know. But Kevin is that guy terminator training is like X what green beret or something like he's that guy like and I'm saying this to say the stuff that you told your team to do is is crushing it and is working. Your team can do that there's stuff you do your team cannot do there's stuff my team are doing that just checking the boxes that is extremely helpful and just stacks it's like it's like layering. Paint though you just take all of a sudden you start to notice it's rising up. But there's things that I do that they can't do there's a type of personality I am that they aren't and there was a point in time where I realize you know what I am able to be that person and I'm going to lean on that so I say this to say sometimes it you need to be really honest with yourself too because you could put out and on my program people would buy it and you would have to be like I don't want to do this for it to stop growing. Versus some people have to admit if you own a jam you're in local and it's going going well and everything if you put out a program online it's not going to do anything that it sounds rude but it's. It's better to have a wake up call and be like you know what I haven't put in the work to have my reputation spread I'm not well known. You can be extremely well known in your community and build a really good brand and I'm really grateful that now that covid has dropped like micro gyms are starting to grow again and it is starting to weed out a lot of people in my space because. covid hit and everybody became an online coach and now you're starting to see a lot of people are just starting to like funnel off because they couldn't like I was going to say like you see this more probably then me because I'm not as. Actively I mean I do research the space for sure but. That would be my assumption is you know I think that is just like anything else that people go like. Especially when there's a kind of you know hockey stick curve like everybody's online this way the money's at. And then it kind of levels out and it's the same thing is real estate right real estate. I know it's been hard for the last couple years like really hard you know bit but the thing is the people that like have been doing it are like. Committed the excellence they still do well right but it's like they live that shit like you know I got. Last until the point where it flips back up yeah it's what happen exactly so that that's my point though right like it's like you look at online coaching you look at the gym business you look at like. You know certain businesses are harder than others but all businesses hard yeah like you know there is no there is no like we're just going to that one like I mean look there's there's a reason I was on my first million I was listening to this guy that's like a franchise guy he's like selling the idea of franchise is really hard but he was very honest about it right was like look man. Franchise is you know when you look at like a specific franchise and it was like I don't know Tony's hot chicken whatever he was given all these different examples. It's like this is the average that it does you know this is a high lift this is a low lift you know like. This one business we have is like key code and people come in and just golf and simulators is like basically nobody works there. Like this is what you can bring in this is your margin you know the the challenges this that the other. So yeah there's there's a point you buy franchise that's why you pay the money right like. All the systems are done for you they find a space that at all these you know depending on franchise which when it is. But guess what you still got to work you know you still got you still got to manage you still got to do this that the other. So it's like there's just you know I there's no thing where you're not going to have to suffer her. Which to me then it makes sense that like you do the thing that you can see yourself doing long term right. And that's why I'm like if you are not where you want to be it with your business whichever if it's online or brick and whatever it is right like. Like man put all your put all your focus into that and like there is a point in time I just don't think there like I'm not a good example for. You know the first three to five years of a career right because it's like what do you do this this this this this and to be honest with you sometimes. I have challenges going to grow too much like this morning I woke up and like I'm writing copy for three landing pages shot three V.S.L. Three-order responder email sequences for three different fucking businesses. And then you know somebody hits me up like yo did you do that yeah I'm like fuck no I have like send me to script god damn it you know and it's like. But my but I do love doing all the stuff that I'm doing and each one of them was pretty organic like when I started doing business coaching people started asking me to do business coaching right. I was like hey how you doing this you know and for the first year and a half I was like I don't really I don't do that right until I was like I took on five six people and. And I was like oh man like I really hope this people good at this right same thing with the court like I got asked to do stuff. Way before I ever did the thing right which to me is just a lag and indicator right like when you say like somebody like I'm going to pull out online coaching program and it's like cricket. Yeah maybe it's a good program by the way right but it's like you have to have a reputation and people have to be like there's a demand you're solving a problem you're the person is going to solve that problem. And and creating that in today's world is tough I'm and by the way I'm all listen if that's what you want to go for go for if you're in it for the long game go for it like. Right coach and I'm saying it you know I think ultimately to it's like if if I could ask you you you're going to like your survive but you're going to suffer for three years five years and then. You're going to be extremely successful in that thing would you still do it and if it's not an immediate yes then it might not and it's totally fine if it's not there's certain things if you asked me to be like hell not I'm not going to suffer for that this I will you know so I think it's like when you know what that thing is that's what like a real like the definition of faith is it's it's believing somebody can't see right. I had faith in my ability to do this and it doesn't matter what's going to get my way because I just know that I'm like this is like yeah this is what you're going to do this is what you're going to I mean. What I mean decision to be you know to be a coach right to be a trainer back then my I mean like there was really not a lot of proof either for me you know like that to not in our country we didn't I didn't have anybody that was like this crazy successful makes it that didn't exist so. I remember I was in trainers in a circle in the U.S. and Pat Rigsby's group back then like 299 a month I remember asked my brother is like because I was I was helping him run as a translate agency while I was playing pro ball is like hey I said my monthly payment put on the cards so I can be this TIC thing. So I could so I could be around people that were like to me you know like wow like did you making what money by the way which was not back then wasn't a lot but to compare to Slovenia it was like holy shit you can actually make that type of money right. And so that that was a little bit of a kind of borrowed belief there I think. But when I look at back then to what some people are making now in person online it's I mean like it's it's crazy so my point to that is that like I still decided I was like this is what I'm going to do is a career post you know post sports like and it's like whatever it takes. This is the shit that I'm going to do and I remember my year to here I got you know it was like my my then my ex-wife. I would say dad was like I can get you a boy whenever you like you'll be top three like and I you know my resume is like I speak four languages blah blah blah blah this year right. Probably back then it was like 70 K plus a year benefits I mean it was juicy for me you know I mean and but I knew it and by the way I was like broken struggling working crazy hours but it was like I was like if I take this and I get it and if I if I go for it I'm going to get it. Then it's like there's no you know now you're comfortable right like now you kind of go and build that career and it's like that's not what I want like I want this I know I want this. And I said no and everybody's like to fucking crazy like you know but within another two years I was making a lot more than that right but it was but it was like you have but it was years of of of hustling you know I mean bro like think about. Like our role is to obviously help people which means they have to trust in our capabilities imagine if. I'm the type of coach is like I think I'm going to do this on the side just a little bit you know nobody's going to trust me like if a doctor's like yeah I prescribed. I do this is a hobby for about six days that is not every six to eight hours a week I do some surgeries or shoulders bro like that's in that's where. Some advice for any online coach who are listening I've told this to people in this also is an accidental shot at some people who are my friends because they do this I see this all time. Oh there's a lot of online people like me who own online company and have coach and they call their coaches assistant coaches and every time I hear that I'm like you're literally creating a lower demeanor of the people you're selling for so you're telling this person they're going to hire you you're going to work with my assistant coach. I don't know about you but my coaches are experts they're great they have a bunch of shirts they have some of them have master's grease I don't even a master's great like they're amazing that's why they're on the team and even if they have work to do the last thing I'm going to say is my assistant coach I want to put like pick them up they're also not part time I always see that to like I'm not going to be talking to somebody like you can work with a part time coach now this is what they do. I have coaches who have to work two jobs I want to still trying to get rid of her other job like but that is part of it in the beginning but we I don't call her a part time coach because this is her thing this is her main thing is this thing she cares about more than anything so like I think just that that no it's a frame it's a frame it's a friend I think it's important for the person that's doing it right I mean look I read the two books from Stephen press for every year turning pro like I gave I three months ago I gave everybody on a team no the war of art. No the war of art is the the art of war is like so soon right it's so soon which is phenomenal work but the war of art and then turning pro and he has like warrior you thought like he has a lot of great books but those two are like re reads right like you got to reread them all the time but it's like you know this mentality of what happens when you turn pro you know and it's important because it's like man even when I was like working three jobs for doing this we open the gym in Slovenia like we weren't like I wasn't making enough money to like just do that man I was. Man I was I literally was coaching people working for my brother's translating agency I would drive this is crazy me and Andy were a Nashville well you were you a Nashville we're walking around and there's there's a store called design within reach okay it's a very high in furniture store and I'm like yo Andy this is crazy I said come in here with me right and I come in and the guy in front I said hey you guys still sell the the cross frame table right it's like we do one of our best sellers I said it's been for long time I said hey what does it cost today and he's like how do you know I said I was like my dad so there's a English designer that designed the cross frame table the initial does a manufacturing the cross frame table was in Slovenia okay so I would drive for my dad the cut it's like our drive out of you know you be on and I would project manage that table basically I was the person checking everything I'm like nope that one's got a dent this doesn't count we're not going to ship that you know what I mean and like I would work with the factory manufacturing it with the English folks with my dad and I like that was my third fourth fucking job I'm running you know I mean like I'm doing everything because I'm just trying to make enough money to like do my thing right and so that that table became the best of furniture of the year in L magazine and then explode so like I I know what it costs to make it you know what versus what it costs to sell it it costs like seven thousand dollars now right and it's been selling for do think about this 20 years or something like that right now I and he's like this is kind of crazy I'm like I have so many stories of of the whole work side of things but I bring it up because I'm like I was training you know I was training people were in the woods and it's in this place called soccer which was like a franchise kind of gym thing I was still playing pro sports to a degree and I mean because doing translations for my brother go to Brazil for a month I'm like running the translating company man it all those things so that I could become a coat right like so this might be part of the path but my in my mind I was pro like in the evening I'm studying this shit left and right I'm picking up clients as much as I can like everything else was to support this main thing because like I'm like I'm pro at this year right so I think the mentality of that matters so much because if you start inserting words like hobby part time maybe did it you know like I don't know I just feel like I just feel it kind of degrades the actual like belief of you know that you're going to be great at this in yourself and obviously the client is up to but even in yourself right like you're saying and that's that's I mean I thought about this not too long ago I was I was kind of having internal dialogue with myself about podcasting because that's like that's one of my things that I really love more than anything and I want to grow the show and keep doing more and one of the things I like told myself was to basically because I looked up Joe Rogan's age and then I started like going through all these people that is big podcasts and I'm like I'm 33 so like as soon as I yeah but I've been doing this for a long time that's how it started man because I there's somebody else that has a massive podcast and we started podcasting the same year and I'm like damn why aren't I there well that's all he does first of all there's nothing else Chris Williamson nothing else he does yeah he's one of my favorite podcasts love it we started the same year but I also built an app in that process I also coach people personally I run a team like there's all these things on top of that kid like but then I'm like well Joe Rogan is like almost 60 things to be 60 soon he's like 59 and I'm like okay I'm good you guys time because I'm still going to be podcasting when I'm 60 and so that changes the frame of like I need to be great and I'm going to continue building and growing every single day because that's a value of mine but there's no like time like I have to do this by this time. No and this is another thing too I think about right like like for example let's take podcasting I mean I think you I always started about the same time I don't know maybe you've been a little earlier I went a little later but it's about I'm in podcasting for seven plus years right like and it was you know I didn't go into it as like man I'm going to like this is going to be my life right so I'm going to make enough money to just podcast it was like this is another avenue of getting ears and eyeballs and you know sharing my knowledge and building a platform and you know and when I took it that way it was just like I'm going to keep doing this. I don't care you know I'm just going to keep going going going going going going now throughout that process you know I think this is going to show 220 and I've done at least you know 200 guests of podcast and then I think we have 60 on yogurt jamming and we just started to build the last podcast with Andy that comes out next week and so you know you're looking at I don't know five six hundred podcast episodes right like that's five to six probably six seven eight hundred hours of like talking yeah you know interviewing questioning show notes you know looking at like what are we going to do on the show is there certain you know have a new strategies whatever so like that's that many times that I practice something and then also there's the editing part which I don't do but I do actually I still do all my show notes for for the big life podcast right so like you're you're building all these skills and if I'm like I'm not going to stop this guess what like you know it kind of takes to stress off because I'm just curious how do I get better I'm going to get better I'm going to be better you know if it I think the certain genre podcast will never be a Chris Williamson size you know or Joe Rogan or whatever and that's fine like you know I I think that when you kind of disassociate that like oh and this is this is a point I wanted to make this is so good. When I brought on a show we were talking about this kind of the relationship of you know when you're training you start training when you've never trained before man like you got an extra rep we put 10 pounds on the bar put 10 pounds on the bar another 10 pounds and like we do that for years right like getting better but like once you become elite and he kind of used the example of lane noran just because you know he's in a seven hundreds you know he's the world record holder at his body weight and so on and so forth like he doesn't have a goal of like I'm going to add four pounds it's like you just get curious hey man like could I get my last a little bit tighter like is my hip position a little bit different like when you start getting at a certain level you just get curious right because you you can't like certain metrics are not even possible to like I'm going to do this you can set that goal but it's more about curiosity right like to me that's what you're saying is now is is is like man I get on on episodes I lose myself I forgot on camera like we're just having a conversation I'm asking questions like Derek Hansen on yesterday I'm and I'm like hey man like tell me about like this what I'm going to do with with a been off season for conditioning when you know like basically five by five and you know and he's like yeah it's a great idea like and we just we're just going back and forth and it's like we're both learning shit and it's like oh yeah we're on a show you want to tell people where to find out about stuff you know so when you when you do like that the content is better I'm improving I lose track of this whole like I don't know like the stress and anxiety of like hitting a metric but like am I doing great work but I'm proud of I think other shit will take care of itself you know and I think that you're doing the same and it's like when you kind of let that go you know it kind of like you do great work and it does open up the doors you know what without just focusing on this outcome you know and that's where like because I do I think I fall in love with the process of just making it better and in like studying the guess so that I can ask the right questions that I can bring things out of them because I think there's a lack of I mean there's people who don't read like us who don't listen like us who don't they don't have that curiosity or that kaisen in them where they just want to get better and I'm like how can I lower the very venture for them and open up the mind because somebody will hear something from somebody they never listen to but the way I ask them questions it's coaching in a way right to me this platform is like the best way to put coaching into content because it is coaching for a long period time but you know like I've done over a thousand I mean we're we're going to hit we just did episode 91 today of choose hard and we change it to choose hard at episode a thousand and so like the thousand 91 episodes but we got top five percent video podcasts period not in fitness period out of all the video podcasts on Spotify we are in the top five percent there's over a half a million see that's what that's been million podcasts yeah yeah yeah but like still I'm like you have to upload a certain quality and a certain amount of your episodes in video to be because I started like doing AI stuff I'm like what does this mean but I wasn't like going for that but I got hit with that on my like please but hop up and I was like whoa that's crazy right because it's like you for example I like I honestly do I don't even check a lot of the metrics like when we do sponsor stuff I you know I'm like hey does can you pull them up but I got the thing last year where it's like you're the top one percent of all podcasts in the world through iTunes right we're on Spotify too now but like I actually didn't add Spotify until probably like two years ago I think and we don't do the video yet but it's still it's it's kind of like with shit that's top one percent like long enough consistent enough quality content you know like and you know I but you could easily compare and go like well shit but this person gets three million downloads per episode right like but that's but I think that it takes away from the whole point of like it's like with clients for myself like I just I want to get better oh by the way this is another great analogy see I this way I love having people on shows I read so much it's like because these things help me and it helps me sometimes related to clients you know this isn't we even had it as a as a value like it one percent better every day but what's interesting is like when you start you get better than one percent better every day you know like sometimes you get I don't know 50 percent better in a fucking week right like but the thing is it's like once you're really good like you get maybe point zero two percent better every day right like and and I think the analogy matters because it goes back to that like curiosity things like better is better like I just want to get better you know and like when you get really fucking good at something like those you know again top powerlifter in the world like man like I work two years and got eight pounds on my you know and it's like eight pound like every person that comes in I'm getting the eight pounds up by like fucking next day right like but it's like but those eight pounds mean the world you know because it's like you're so elite they're like all these little things you know that person got whatever you know zero point zero zero two percent better if I get every day right like but it made him the best in the world so I think that matters too because at the beginning you should be getting a better faster and like I'm a big fan of like the 80 percent rule right like you can get there's another book here to talk the first 20 hours like how to learn anything fast I'm wearing broken spot books in my library it's the whole point is that like you can actually learn something pretty fast to a certain level right and they say 70 80 percent whatever and the rest is like lifetime right mastery so I think about that like now I'm kind of like okay how can I learn AI to like a pretty damn good level fast but I'm probably not going to be the world expert right how can I learn this thing fast how can I learn this thing fast but then there's these things that I'm going to spend the rest of my life getting great and coaching is one of them you know like and I think that this idea you know of like throwing yourself into things and like improving is so motivating you know what I mean like and I see it in people right where I'm like hey just go spend hours you know per day for the next two weeks on something they come back and they're like lit up like man I learned this and I learned this I'm like that's what that's what learning does but you're just you know you're going to get more than one percent better at the beginning and you can get way less than one percent better you know once once you've actually dug it out like we're I think we got time for one more yeah um oh yeah let's see let's see okay we talk about flexible dieting but for many it becomes neurotic dieting how do you transition a client from tracking everything to intuitive eating for the high performer I'll alley up that one do you first uh so I think there's a I mean there's a handful of things that I would recommend so number one I think redefining what flexible dieting is for people because most people get into flexible dieting and think of like if it's your macros and unfortunately they think that means I can have this junk and fit it in and it's that's flexible and that is that's part of it but it's also part of it being like hey this day you're only tracking calories and protein this day you're tracking uh your calories protein and carbs and fats but you're switching your carbs and fats around to just stay within your calories this day you're dialed in this day you're within range of your calories or within range of your uh protein or your macros the point being is everything is flexible it's not just food quality or just treats and shit like that it is there's a flexible component of how much you're weighing food how often you're tracking all the calories if you're tracking all the calories it's not just food quality so redefining that and showing them what that looks like in their own life um if somebody's measuring their blueberries for 100 grams on scale and they pull out one blueberry to make sure it's 100 grams like that's a problem that's neurotic that's neurotic if it says 102 you're fine like just just eat the blueberries especially because we don't even know perfectly like you're not testing nutrients to see how many calories are in those this is just the best guesstimation we have right that's what we're recording so number one is redefining it uh i think number two you have to set and actually i would say number two i would start leaning into this before they even hit the goal we found that and we don't do this to everybody because some people generally like the analytical people they actually enjoy tracking macros and such and i totally get it um but a lot of people that want to lose weight they're really not going to have this big reverse diet process like that's more restricted towards like bodybuilders because if you drop 30 pounds your maintenance calories is less yeah i'm not going to reverse diet you and the only way i could reverse diet you is if you rapidly put on muscle that is going to metabolically eat up those calories or we increase your volume a ton in the gym so you have that output but unless you want a massive lifestyle change after the diet that's not going to happen so we're not going to do this crazy aggressive or or big reverse diet um so if we can start shifting towards an intuitive plan where i would say an intentional plan before the end of your cut it's a little bit easier because when i still have a deadline to hit or a finish line to walk across i'm more motivated to be intentional about my actions versus if i've already reached the goal we all have that kind of slump of like well i already reached the goal i'm kind of like i guess i can have a little bit of this a little bit of that now your intentional eating just kind of becomes lazy you gain weight and now you're back to tracking macros to try lose again so if we can jump ahead of that you know and some people have goal after goal because they're doing different things or performance that's great but for most people who just want to lose weight if you're like 75% of the way there which is also a good time because that's usually when people start self-sabotaging if somebody wants to lose 40 pounds when they're down 35 they're feeling themselves you know and now all of a sudden they're like going out a little bit more and they're not as like pressure to do it because they don't have that same level of insecurity it's another reason to stay more motivated when one we haven't finished the goal yet and also now we're learning a new skill a new habit and that kind of reinvigorates them so between 50 to 75% of the way to your weight loss goal i think switching to that intuitive plan or intentional plan is good and then the third thing would be setting up like rules actual standards you're gonna follow we've seen this a ton and i've been digging into a ton of just research around this and and i haven't read all the studies but i basically use AI to like pull all these studies to just confirm if what i'm thinking is legit and there's a bunch of studies to show one of the biggest components of sustainable transformation is personal identity and values so when somebody has values that align with their new physique and they have a personal identity that's attached to the new person they become they're not going to fall off because it is attached to who they are now the people who just lose weight and they don't form a new set of values that pair up and align with that new version of themselves they struggle to sustain it so teaching people that is extremely important when we get to this intentional part because then we have these standards or rules or expectations that align with this i don't have to track calories in order to say i'm a healthy person i'm a disciplined person i value my body i'm valuing the gym i get these things out of it when you identify as somebody who goes to the gym you identify who's with somebody who puts i'm gonna say just eats healthy we all know like that you know 80 to 90% they're not neurotic about it but when you identify with that kind of person you are much more likely to be internally accountable and stick to those things that the problem that people have is they don't set up rules for themselves so what does that mean you know if you're going out we just got done with the holidays so you're going to Christmas okay well what is your standard like is it just free for all as soon as you get to the family's house you're just eating or whatever we have a lot of clients too that they're the like lean one they have a big family and it's like you're going to a place that has you love them all but they all have terrible eating habits and they're all gonna poke you because yeah they're not in charge of their body you don't got to put them down but you have to be strong in your own standards and so when people don't have anything to stand on they it just falls apart and i think if you go to those events it's like in these scenarios i show up this way i act this way i eat this way even if it says and this is harder than it sounds leave your plate with food on it right like i'm i'm the type that cleanses plate like i want to eat at all that's a skill to be able to say like i'm still kind of hungry right now i know i don't need this but i'm choosing to just leave a little bit because i'm teaching myself control so that when i go to that place i can have a plate and i leave a little bit or i don't go back for seconds that's my rule and you tell somebody that you're going to stick to it way more because it's in technically it's an i m statement so the identity statements that they study with this stuff is i am the type of person that does this and when you when you frame it that way it really sinks in mentally people are going to be much better off intuitive eating in that regard yeah i agree because there's got to be something deeper than strategy right strategy is built on top of identity and like for me for example right like i'm like i'm an athlete for life i have to be an example for my team you know i mean like i have to any you know like whether it's ego or not i'm like hey like i want to be the top one percent of like you know fit people at my age so on and so forth right which then and it's and it's like you kind of build um habits around like i weigh myself every night and every morning and i have completely an emotional about the number now that that takes practice and and you know taking time there but all it does is like just you know i'm Tony brought me man it's ube pie with a caramel bottom for yeah like they you know Tony's pies are crazy and so every day like i don't even go crazy on them like every day i ate a pie for like 10 days you know and all of a sudden i'm like yo i'm 208 and it's like but then i within you know i don't know like 10 days i'm back down to 203 to my but again it's just it's a compass it's a compass that's telling me but i don't but i also don't stress myself out about like appear to time in a year or you know like one of the things i'm about to put a post i take a picture of our food a lot you know people are like my god like your meals are like you know and you know shout out to itia because she's an incredible cook and makes things look nice as well but like but i started taking photos of everything else that i eat like protein shake two protein bars because i'm fucking on a run you know beria tacos down here chula that are amazing you know every day i eat some chocolate right because people like dude you just eat so one point i'm like man like i honestly like i know my rules i understand like oh this is like 300 calories don't care i got them it's all fine right and so which you said i think is a very very good point that as you build your skills of tracking and understanding foods and what's what and you lost let's say 75% of your way your your goal to get there and now you can get a little looser now you still have boundaries it's like a basketball court right like i can dribble left right foot but there's an out of bounds you know what i mean and so it's like not a tight row it's a basketball court and that's the intuitive eating basketball court that you have right like and i have rules and by the way i don't even tell like people they should have the same rule you know i'm very structured when i'm in in like at home but like when we go to national go to restaurant we'll do this we'll do that and i'm like shit well we're gonna go to um you know this restaurant like i'm not gonna have lunch because i'm gonna eat double the fucking meal and that's fine like i don't like i'm not gonna straight i'm not gonna go to this dope restaurant that has whatever whatever meal and pasta and things that i want and then be guilty with doing it no i'm just gonna have a couple rules that keep me within the basketball court you know and and those are skills that i need to build so the reason why i said i like that is because you have to earn that right like you have to you have to earn getting to that point and i think there's a number of ways to get there but you do have to follow some principles you know i mean it's just like hey like if you don't really know what you're eating it's gonna be tough you know i mean like if and i don't care like if you're at you know if i do have some clients they're like yo i will eat off of a picture of a plate like you show me how it looks like i'm a and i'm like cool like if that works for you and we'd like constantly do that stuff and they they learn like over time but like dude i don't know exactly how much of this is protein how much of this is this and and they built that skill you know i mean like and so there's different ways to get there but i think identity is a really really big part of it because it's the compass that gets you back on track right versus like we could go like here's 11 different tactics you know each of them could work but it's like are like are do you have a compass of why you choose to take you know to actually follow the tactic well and that's why certain strategies work better for certain people so like having the identity of values in place you can help somebody create their strategies that work for them and then as a coach you can confirm that yes that is a good strategy that works that'll help us it's a line with your goals but it resonates with them and motivational interviewing they chose it yep they're going to be correct autonomous to do it um but there's little things too in there that do help uh for example weighing yourself every day is actually one of the things that does correlate well in research to people who sustain weight loss after the fact and i think it's it is a compass i don't recommend people weigh in morning and night all the time but like usually rarely ever to be honest with you but if you're weighing yourself every day and you go eat a bunch pies days in a row you see the number on the scale and you go okay i got to cut down the pies if you don't see the number on the scale you might lie to yourself or you might go i'm gonna cut down on the pies but then you're eating other crap and you're not noticing that your weight's creeping up yep and so the other thing too is i i'll talk to people who like i don't want to weigh myself and all that and it that's not the you know the obstacle is the way so if the scale bugs you you got a step on scale but i ask them do you want to be afraid of the scale no do you want to be able to weigh yourself and not get emotional about the number yes okay so what do you think we need to do we got to weigh yourself and then we got to talk about we got to reflect on we got to answer right questions and once they can learn that it's just a data point like hey we're tracking your measurements and your food and your training and your pictures and your weights one out of five if that's off and everything else is on i'm gonna shit what the scale says there's a million reasons i can fluctuate yep that knowledge actually helps them realize okay this is just a number and on top of i always tell people to especially women i'm like hey so if you lose all this weight do you think somebody's gonna come up to you and be like oh my gosh you look great how much do you weigh no they're gonna say what do you been doing and you're gonna say strength training and eating well and i'm nobody walks around with a name tag it says they're weighed on it like no dude i listen i said this too well at white tia too but it's just like some people are stuck on a number right and i'm like when they start strength training like they're gonna build a bunch of muscle and that number is gonna change from what you were in college or whatever right and i'm like man people want to look good naked if you looked at yourself and you're naked and you're like damn i look good like would you care if that number is different 10 pounds up 12 pounds up for what you think you should be or whatever you'd be like nah dude i don't give a shit right so so i think there's you know part of the coaching i think is being able to help people disassociate right with like uh some form of like you know judgment around a certain number right and and and it just being a a true kind of guide data point um and again look that's work it's not like i'm not saying it's easy but but it's like i think it's good to explain our philosophy behind it and like you know how to uh relate it to clients dude this was like i i think we got a date there's like well shit it's like five or six questions well this is good because we have we have stuff for next time but um we got a we got a bunch more roundtable questions that we're going to get to and that we're going to do this like at least once a month um if you guys love this format if you like you know the kind of q and a stuff uh let us know dm us you can send me questions to lucavigagram fitness.com um we we put them down on the list and we're constantly kind of collecting these and uh diving into them as you can see sometimes a question will go for 30 minutes but hey it is what it is uh with that said make sure check out coating stuff uh tailored method uh tailored coaching method.com uh also the choose hard podcast and you can find them on social media uh under what coating bro yep yep hell yeah and you already know my my stuff is dammit but loving to appreciate you guys for being here for damn almost two hours hopefully we didn't bore you and it was all good and uh with that said we'll see you in the next episode peace out