EP#21- The Age of Digital Dating with Isabella Vaccaro, Author of Stranger Love: Young People's Stories of Finding Connection Online

(gentle music) I just revised a chapter about intentional dating and more specifically intentional dating online. And I think what's inside that chapter, I think is gonna solve all of our issues in this casual dating arena. (gentle music) - Welcome back to Everyday Endorphins. For the final episode in my healthy dating and relationship series, I brought on Isabella Vicaro to talk about the digital dating phenomenon. Isabella is a senior at the University of Miami and author of the soon to be published book, Stranger Love, Young People Stories of Finding Connection Online. Her book discusses the digital dating world and how to navigate the era of online dating, which as we talk about in this episode is very prevalent in today's culture. And honestly, that's how a lot of people are meeting each other nowadays, especially with COVID and the inability to actually go out and meet someone at a bar or a restaurant or wherever it may be. In this episode, we talked about the importance of cultivating a healthy mindset when it comes to dating and how the ability to be present is so important when building relationships and navigating dating culture, plot twist, meditation is a great strategy and tool to help you better focus your energy towards being in the present moment. So I know I've talked a lot about that in other episodes, but I love how it has a lot of importance in this one in particular. Before we dive into the interview, I have a brief message from my sponsor, Inker. (soft music) - Hi, Isabella, thank you so much for coming on to Everyday Endorphins. - Hey Stella, I'm so happy to be here. We're both college students. We're both graduating this upcoming semester. I love that you are in the process of writing, revising this book, Stranger Love, Young People Stories of Finding Connection Online. And today we're here to talk about the era of digital dating and the crazy stories that you've learned about and everything that you've really put your heart and soul into this book. I would love to start off by talking a little bit about what this book really is discussing and why you chose to write a book about digital dating. - I wrote this book, I think, because, oh no, I know, because I was dissatisfied with my own dating life. And I was like, let me do some research and see what other people are doing and what's going on out there and what's happening with this age of dating. So I interviewed so many different college students about their experiences with dating and hooking up in this digital love culture that we're in. And I also talked to experts and I wrote about some of my own experiences and my own sort of personal journey. And yes, the findings are that we are in this chaotic digital world that is not very conducive to making really solid love connections, I guess you could say. I was like, okay, let me, I had never really tried dating apps before. So I was like, I'm writing this book about digital dating. Let me throw myself into the dating app world. Like that'll be my missing piece. That'll be where I find my soulmate, I know it. So I started doing dating apps and I started, I met a lot of good people and I had some casual relationships from some of these matches. - Which dating apps did you try? - I tried hinge, the league. Have you heard of the league? - Yes, yes, I've heard of the league. - Yeah, I like the league. I also tried to get into some of those elite dating apps like Raya and, but I never got into those. - I actually haven't heard of that. I thought the league was more elite, but something I don't like about the league is that you only have three people to choose from at like five p.m. You get the notification. - I kind of like that because I in the beginning was going very hard on hinge and I almost got burnt out from it. So going on the league was almost sort of refreshing because I was like, oh, I only have three options and that's it. Then I have to put the app down for the day. So, but yeah, I definitely thought this was gonna be my missing piece. And then once I had done that and these relationships from the dating apps weren't really turning into that serious sort of relationship that I was looking for, I sort of came to this next lesson that I think is one of the most important of the book. And that is this idea of self-love and how that is literally the number one factor and the first step of dating. That I've found through meditation and other and self-work, which is a whole nother story, but I think it's a really big piece of the book because I have the stories and I have the research about how crazy this digital world is and I have experts telling you what works and what doesn't work in some great ways to go about navigating it. But then I have this whole other component which is like, here's my journey and here's my stories and I've realized that I was looking at dating in a totally wrong way. I was looking at it as if, I have all these things that I have going well in my life. I'm successful in all these areas except for love and it's like that one missing piece. If I have a boyfriend, I'll become complete. And that was so wrong. That was, once I found this deep sort of self-love and I started to just fall in love with my own life and have this deep sense of love and gratitude for my own self. Then I started to look at dating as sort of just this cherry on top. If somebody were to come into my life, then it'll just be like just an augmentation to my already wonderful life. Yeah, I mean, I also personally felt the same way and had a very similar mindset to you. And I think maybe that's a product of viewing our timeline growing up, we're still very young. We're both 21, 22. And you do elementary school, through high school, then you go to college. And yeah, you just check things off the list. Grades, test scores, extracurriculars, leadership, job, whatever. And then it's like, okay, there's the love part of your life. And I also always thought it was kind of something to be checked off too. Like everything's supposed to fit together to make you complete. But that's not going to necessitate. That's, I agree with you. Like it's not the right mindset. And that doesn't, that shouldn't make you feel fulfilled or complete. You need to kind of get there on your own. And as you mentioned, it's really this act of self love and self care, which I think is way easier said than done. And I'd love to hear a bit more about how you were able to achieve that understanding of what it means to prioritize yourself and really take care of yourself. Because once you can do that, then as you said, it's like that cherry on top. It's exciting then to date, you know? Because maybe before it was like, oh, am I going to find someone like this exhausting? I'll die. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like how you said, like you thought it was something to be checked off. Because so did I. I thought it was like, all right, I'm failing in this department of my life. And that means there's something wrong with me. But I think that what I did, I mean, I did a lot of things. And I think it's something you hear all the time. Like you always hear the first step is self love. You have to love yourself before anyone else loves you. Blah, blah, blah. Like you hear it everywhere. It's such a cliche. But I don't think you really hear it until you actually hear it and you feel it, you know? Definitely. I did a lot of meditation. And also just the act of writing this book was a huge self reflection, like huge. And I'm not saying everybody has to write a book to figure out their own self love discovery. But just the act of a little bit of self reflection, a little bit of research, and then actually putting into practice some of the stuff that I learned about meditation and about just finding this power inside of you that is just pure love. And that is-- Absolutely. --no strong. And a lot of people don't-- they just forget that that's inside of them, I think. And they focus so much on what's outside of them and how they look. And I did that too. I'm such a culprit. I'm such a culprit of everything I'm talking about right now. It's ridiculous. So I'm not like-- I'm no guru or anything. I'm just starting to crack, you know, the surface of this. But-- Well, you have to start somewhere. Yeah, you do. You do. But I was totally like, especially living in Miami caught up in the appearances and looks and even-- and even sometimes putting on a different persona than who I was to try and impress people and to attract guys. And that was-- that was not in line with who I was. And that was me not realizing what was inside of me, I think. Yeah, I mean, you know, that's why I think this message is so important now because it feels even harder in a way in this period in our lives in college to actually be authentic and stick to who you are and stick to your values and really discover what your values are. And that's, you know, I totally agree with you. Like, I'm not a guru either. Like, I'm definitely a culprit to all of what we're talking about as well. I think everyone is to an extent like, how can you not compare yourself against someone or have those thoughts in the back for your head? Like, that's just, that's just human. But it's really hard. And that's why I'm so, I'm so curious to learn about what steps you took maybe even besides meditation. Because I think that's also challenging for some people to get into to understand like meditation doesn't necessarily have to happen sitting down, closing your eyes. Like, you can meditate while walking or while eating or just taking a moment to like breathe deeply. But besides meditation, what were some other strategies you used to really focus on yourself in college when everything else around you is crazy and it's a competition and it's just really hard to stay true to who you are? It is. I found myself, you know, in each year of college fighting with myself, you know, going back and forth between, I am this Miami Party girl who loves to dress up and go clubbing or, oh, no, that's not me. I am the, you know, the bookworm who likes to sit in the magazine office and edit the magazine to all hours of the night. Like, I fought with myself a lot. I realized in writing the book, the way I was attracting guys was by putting on a persona that wasn't really me. Like, it was putting on that Miami Party girl persona and that was what I was using to attract guys which then didn't really in turn work out for me because they were attracted to someone who I wasn't, that wasn't really me. So understanding that inspired me to then take steps, I think, to find out, okay, then who am I really? If I'm not the party girl at the club in Miami, then who am I? Journaling was a big one. And sometimes I look back at my journal and I cringe like so hard because I'm like, my, you know, my inner struggle throughout all these years is just so apparent on those pages. And it's so sad to look back at and like see how much I struggled, but it's also, it's good. So the journaling, I think, helped just sort of map out, right? Like what's going on in your life? And just doing things that you authentically love and not, it sounds so cliche, I don't even want to say it, but not caring what people think and not caring what other people are doing. Like, FOMO is, I don't know about you, but in Miami, I feel like FOMO is the biggest thing ever. And I'm always constantly looking on Instagram and seeing what other people are doing and feeling this sense of FOMO that like I'm not doing it. And that's hard. It's totally real. I mean, I would say Washu is probably actually definitely less of a party school than Miami is just given the way Greek life is or I guess was on campus. Because now there's like this whole movement to dismantle Greek life and Greek organizations. But I, I mean, still like even just like the smallest things. If you go on social media, you're check Snapchat stories, check Instagram and you're not at a certain place. It's like, oh my god, like, this is annoying. I'm stuck at home. And especially in COVID when there's like such minimal activity to do, but someone actually gave me really great advice about FOMO and said that you can only be in one place at one time. So maybe I'm not actually saying it the way that it was told to me and really resonated with me, but it's the idea that like you should feel the joy of missing out because you're in your own present moment. And if you were in another place, then you would be missing out on that present experience that you're having. So why feel this need to feel sad and anxious and upset that you're not in another space, but just be content with where you are in that moment? I love that. The present moment is what I've gotten out of meditations because I was always, you know, they say like anxiety is when you're worrying about the future. Depression is when you're thinking about the past or like, ruminating over the past. And being in the present moment is bliss because you're not thinking about either of those things. So I think that that's like one of the best things meditation brings. And also it just helps you be more present with people that you are interacting with and potential romantic interests, you know? You know, if you're in, if you're in the present moment with someone and you're being your authentic self, and it's so much easier for them to connect to you on a human level, I think, rather than what I always did was like, I'm on the first date with this person, but I'm thinking seven dates ahead of myself, like, oh, is this person going to date me? Is he going to like me? Are we going to get married? Like all of that. And that just creates anxiety and probably makes me like probably makes me seem desperate, even though I'm not saying it out loud. It probably just gives off that energy of desperation. In an earlier episode, one of my guests talked about not having expectations in a relationship or just going on a date, just going in with no expectations. And I think having expectations or ruminating on future scenarios, getting really invested in those ideas can really backfire. And for someone who feels like you're doing everything right, and then all of a sudden something's not working out, that can really be like a blow to yourself confidence and self esteem. And I think also then maybe it feels discouraging to go on another date or to put yourself out there again, because you're so wrapped up in one scenario, like one person, one idea. Totally. And I think that kind of ties into that conversation we were having the other day about how you can become so broken up over a quote unquote breakup, even though you weren't really dating a person. I'm so glad you brought that up. I just want to know, why does that happen? Is there anything that you found writing your book, talking to experts where they said something to you and you're like, this just totally resonates with me. This is exactly why it feels like we break up with someone that we never actually dated. My therapist told me that even if you're not technically calling someone your boyfriend or your girlfriend, but maybe you're having sex with them or you're just maybe you're not having sex with them, maybe you're just going on dates. Whatever it is, you're spending time with the person, you've created an emotional connection. Whether or not, you think you have, even if you're having sex, that still becomes an emotional connection, I think, because it becomes at least sort of love connection because you release the hormone oxytocin when you have sex. Maybe in dolphins also. In dolphins, of course, everyday in dolphins. Regardless of what capacity you were technically, like quote unquote dating the person, you still had a connection with them. Even when that ends, obviously you're going to be broken up over it. I always feel so ashamed of how long it takes me to get over guys who I've just seen for a little bit, maybe a month or two months. We weren't dating, but now I think it's valid just because I've learned a little bit of the science behind it and how your brain chemistry works and your body chemistry works and how humans are. It's just inherent in our DNA to form connections with other humans. Why wouldn't we be upset when a connection disconnects? No matter how we call it. What we called it. That's the other thing. I'm sure you have experienced this, but people aren't defining their relationships at all anymore. In our generation, people are so fine to have casual relationships and not call them anything, even if they are kind of serious. Definitely. I totally agree. I think just the shift in dating culture and what we're experiencing now versus maybe 10, 20 years ago, it's so different. I also have an episode that talks about this too, comparing dating years before now versus what we're going through. It's crazy how everything is super casual now and everything is very ambiguous and loosely defined. I think there's definitely a balance. How do you not go into something with a lot of expectations and are able to move slowly and take it one day at a time versus also not just thinking that this is incredibly casual, flaying a relationship and that can turn into if you're really into the person and ends, there's this feeling of guilt and shame and it's taking me so long to get over this person. Why is that happening when we never actually dated? I think there's finding a middle ground where you're not so on one end versus the other, but being able to go with the flow. Maybe that's what I'm trying to say. No, I totally understand that. I just revised a chapter about intentional dating and more specifically in intentional dating online. And I think what's inside that chapter, I think is gonna solve all of our issues in this casual dating arena, because I've seen it so many times. Like, yeah, I don't wanna be too pushy, but I also wanna express my feelings. I've been there so many times and I've seen so many friends do it too. Like, I don't know, like, I don't wanna be too pushy. So I guess I'll just continue to casually hook up with this person until they decide it's right. It's like the right time to say something, but then they never do, so then you're going crazy in your mind. But when you intentionally date, which doesn't mean what you think, it means intentional dating doesn't have to mean, like, I know I wanna get married, so I'm dating for marriage, or I know I wanna serious boyfriend, so I'm gonna tell you that on the first date. That's not what it means. It means more of just showing up and knowing what qualities you like in a person and what qualities you like in a relationship, and then bringing your best qualities to the relationship and totally being just vulnerable, up front, and honest about yourself on a first date, or like when you're in the beginning stages, the initiation stages of a relationship. So I talk about that in the chapter and that is a great tool because it's just right off the bat if you're honest and then you're also asking them like vulnerable questions and it doesn't have to be like, oh my god, what's your biggest trauma in life or whatever? It can just be like, oh, what were you like in high school? Or like, who's your best friend, stuff like that? And then that will automatically just open up the floodgate either for a really cool connection to form that will not be based on superficial things or you'll find out that they aren't really into that. And then it probably won't work out because you know that they're not really down to have that emotional connection. I just think intentional dating and just being open and honest is the only way to kind of get around that. Oh, do I text him? Oh, do I not? Oh, do I still hook up with him even though I really want to date him and he's not dating me and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I think that chapter is a good one. - I'm so excited to read. Well, first of all, I'm excited to read the entirety of your book, but this chapter seems particularly interesting and exciting and I really agree with everything that you just said and it reminds me of my listeners know that I love yoga. I talk about yoga like maybe in almost every single episode 'cause I think the principles that are rooted in the practice really extend to everything in life. And specifically in this idea of intentional dating and yoga oftentimes it's important to set an intention for your practice. So at the beginning you think about what you want to gain out of this practice and it doesn't have to be like, oh, I want to have like the hardest workout ever. It can be something like that or it can be, I really just need a moment of silence and relaxation, whatever you need in that moment in that space and time. And just the practice of doing that and also even like gratitude journaling or just journaling in general. Like you're being very intentional with what you put down on the page and even if you're not being quote unquote intentional, you're just kind of doing a brain dump when you're able to read back on that, you start to learn more about yourself and understand more about yourself that will then enable you to be more intentional in the future with your decisions and the choices that you make. Totally. I love you. I love the analogy that you brought in with yoga. Yeah, I'm sure that like also in your meditation practice you've probably noticed something similar as well. Yeah, I feel like we sound so like smart, but I still feel like I'm figuring everything out and I still like make all these mistakes every day. So it's just funny. Like I feel like I'm like preaching, but I'm really just trying to preach to myself. I feel like every time I'm writing a sentence in the book, I'm like, all right, Isabella, you got to remember this one this time. Like you've written it down now, like you're telling your audience to do this. You now have to apply it to your own life. So it's just funny. I know. I mean, I feel you. I were both growing and I think just the fact that we're talking about this, I think is important. It is. And we'll be a good reminder in the future. Let's put it that way. I kind of want to shift gears a little bit and talk more about toxic relationships. Because I know you also have talked about this in your book and through interviews you've conducted and speaking with experts. I'm sure there's a lot we can chat about on how you can identify a toxic relationship and what are some red flags to be on the lookout for. So I always say, well, I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but I'm always like the culprit to let 18,000 red flags go by before I finally pick up on one. And I'm like, oh, yeah, it's fine. And I find myself making excuses for guys. And that is wrong. That is so bad. So I think that one of the biggest things you can say to yourself when you're going out with somebody is are they giving you what you want or are you making excuses for them? And if you're making excuses for them, then that's just like an automatic no. I'll give you an example. I was going out with someone who had a very busy schedule. He had a very involved job, very busy. And we were hanging out, I would say, about once a week. But it just always felt like it was kind of a struggle to make these plans. And it was always on his time. I always had to be the one that was free and clear, which I usually was, which is embarrassing. But so it was always like, yeah, whenever he was available, I had to jump to make that plan happen. And I kept making excuses for him. I was like, oh, he's busy. He was in sports. So I was like, once the sports season ends, it'll be fine. He'll ask me out for real. And it will be dating by then. It's fine. And that was just not the case. So I was making all these excuses. And I was just plainly lying to myself, really. And that is, I think, one of the biggest red flags. And as they do say, the truth was, he just wasn't that into me. If somebody's really into you and they really like you, it doesn't matter how busy they are, they'll make time for you is what I've learned. So that's a huge lesson to learn also. And I experienced something pretty similar. So I can totally resonate with what you're talking about. And it's really hard to identify the red flags and actually take them, like to see them and to go with it and to be like, okay, actually, that's a little bit jarring. I feel like maybe I should cut something off or I should just stop what I'm doing. It is really hard. But I think it ties into our previous point about self-care and putting yourself first, which is so much easier said than done. But I think through these experiences and through maybe hurt or stress or pain, it's an opportunity to grow and to see how next time you can take one small step to better put yourself first. And I think by doing that, it ties into how our brains work, habit formation. The more you do something, you're going to develop a habit. And if you think about something in the same way over and over and over again, especially if you ruminate over one thought multiple times, your brain's going to develop a pattern of thought where you're just going to be constantly focused on one thing or the way you approach a certain scenario is going to be that one approach because that's how your brain is going to be wiring now. And I think that's why these experiences, although they may hurt in the moment, are really actually beneficial and then opportunities for further growth. So you can identify those red flags and then change that habit formation. So you can act in a more intentional way in the future and put yourself first for once, which is like so much easier said than done as you know I've mentioned, but it's so important. And that's why I love that you're in the process of revising this book. When will people be able to grab a copy and read it? So the book will be published in April, this April, April 2021, which is so soon. Currently in my first round of revisions, and then I'll send some chapters off to beta readers to give me some feedback. And then I'll do a second round of revisions with my editor. And then it'll go into copy editing and proofreading and then publishing. As we're wrapping up with the episode, there's one question that I ask every single guest that comes onto the podcast. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? Ooh, that's a good one. You know, I think it's going to sound annoying because I keep talking about it, but I do this breath in my meditations and it's meant to just get the energy flowing like from your bottom chakra to your top. I won't say the names of them because that certain people don't like to call them. People call them different things, but it's just meant to get the energy flowing up your spine. And so I do this breath in the mornings and it really just liberates the energy in your head and it just gets you going and it just energizes you. So I guess that counts as endorphins, right? Oh, absolutely. And doing different types of breath work makes a physiological change on your body. it's able to slow down your heart rate. And if you're really intentional about the type of breathing that you're doing and you focus your energy on it, your muscles begin to relax and you notice areas of tension in your body. So definitely counts as a bit of endorphins. So I love that answer. Thank you so much Isabella for coming onto the podcast. - Thank you so much, Stella. This was so fun. (upbeat music) - Thank you for listening. If you liked what you heard, please follow rate review everyday endorphins on whichever listening platform that you use to stream my episodes. Thanks again and I'll see you next time. (upbeat music)