Ep.20: Cuddle Cot Care

The word that comes out is joy. One of the things that's really important to us is that we raise awareness of stillbirth and near-nate or death. Have you considered taking baby home? That's a huge statement that it's a normal thing and why not? You can still be parents. There is time to do that. Welcome to mothers of held angels or as we say, MOHA. We are three dedicated and passionate moms who have lost babies to stillbirth and infant death. We formed a support group to help get through the dark days of grief. We touch on a variety of topics relating to life after loss, speak with experts and enjoy healing conversations based on our own experiences. Don't forget to visit our website at www.moha-network.org for more information. And thank you for listening in. As the book of Matthew says, you are not alone here. Welcome back MOHA listeners. We are thrilled, beyond thrilled, to have two gentlemen with us here today. We have Kevin and Steve from Flexmore. They are the company that invented and introduced the cuddle-caught into the world. Two out of the three of the MOHA co-founders used a cuddle-caught and so we believe wholeheartedly in the product. I know Holland has talked numerous times on it's just something that she really wishes that she had in place at her hospital at the time of having Carter. Absolutely. Something you regret not having, right? We have spent two days with these lovely gentlemen from the UK, gotten to know them, gotten to know the history behind the product. And so we are just going to chat with them a little bit about it, just so our listeners can know the history behind it and why it is growing ever so rapidly in the United States. And kind of how the UK handles their grief and bereavement differently from the US. And we have definitely some of the things that we have talked about were extremely eye-opening. And it would be nice if MOHA kind of led that change with the US, whether we started out with our baby steps and grew on, but putting forward a better effort of grief and bereavement care with mom starting with the cuddle-caught, and then extending on into maybe potentially bringing baby home, being able to spend extra time and days that we would all wish we had now looking back. So first I want to introduce Steve. Steve, tell us a little bit about you, how you are involved in the company, how you are involved with cuddle-caught, and who you are. Okay, so yeah, hi, my name is Steve. I have been with FlexMort now since it started 12 years ago. And I am actually one of the co-inventors of the cuddle-caught. I am incredibly proud of the cuddle-caught. And to be with the three from MOHA, it's just really, really nice to see people that have got the same mission going out into the hospitals and to see the reaction of what they get from the people and the hospital staff. It's just really, really nice. So the cuddle-caught came about myself and my colleague Simon. We were cooling large bariatric deceased in hospitals in the UK, which basically meant that you didn't have to move the deceased. There was no manual handling issues, and it was much, much easier, rather than trying to put them in fridges, which, to be honest, we weren't suitable at that time. And a mum came to us and she told us her story, a mum from Somerset, in England, and she told us a story about her boy Finley. And how she hadn't spent time with baby the only time she actually got to spend with Finley was the funeral director did allow her to have the coffin at home for one day, and she wanted longer. And she asked us about, could we do something? And both myself and my colleague Simon, we were ex-serving policemen. We'd had dealings, we've still born before. And we sat down and put our heads together and said, "Yeah, I think we can do something on this." And so then it just spent several weeks, several months, went by, developing, trying different things until what we have now, which is a very small, compact, light, flexible cooling system, enabling the family, mum's dads, out-of-family members to be able to spend time with baby. Amazing. So how long from conception of the idea of creating a smaller unit to the first unit going out? How long was that time period? That's a great question. I don't have it exactly because it was a fluid thing. It just went. But I would say a couple of months to actually get to the stage where we think, "Yes, we have something that would work." Then there was some testing to be done, some trials, because we did hit quite a lot of objection in the UK about families wanting to spend time with their baby, which thankfully has now changed around the world. It's much more acceptable. It's a little long way to go, but in the UK we did hit that objection. So when we finally got a hospital to trial it, and the family were offered it, and I can tell you now it is a very nervous time for both myself and Simon, that this family will rely on this piece of equipment that we'd done. And thankfully everything went smoothly. The family had a few days with baby, and it was absolutely superb. So yeah, please. I would love to hear. I know you shared with us the past couple of days, but where the name came from, and I just thought the story that you shared about the mum who came to with that, and how that kind of came to be. Okay, yeah. Myself and my colleague Simon, we were two blocs. We've designed this piece of equipment, and we didn't really have a catchy name for it. It just was a piece of equipment, and a mum heard of what we were doing, saw what we were doing in the south of England, and had started to fundraise for a cuddle cot. And we thought, "Oh, that's a really nice name for the product." So we contacted the mum, and asked her if she'd mind if we used the name, and she's had no objections at all. So from that moment on, it's been known as the cuddle cot. I think I really love that part, because I feel like a mum was able to help start the name of this amazing piece of breathing equipment that helps a mum spend more time with her baby. And to know that a mum had an impact on a company that was creating this for moms like us, I think that brings it all home so much more. A mum has helped with this idea of what it actually does. It gives you that cuddle time with your baby in the cuddle cot. And I think we were all just tickled, because when we asked what the name was before, what was the. It was called a cold cot, which is very clinical. And it is lovely that a mum was involved. And as a company, we have a number product, which is the next stage on from the cuddle cot, which is designed for toddlers, children and adults, working in the same way. We hope to launch this in the US in the next 12 months. We're just going through testing stages over here. And that's name is called the cuddle blanket. And that came from, again, a UK-based charity. The original name of it was the Catchy Mini 170. So not the best, again, designed by two bloaks. And this charity had been working on the cuddle blanket. And it's a great charity in the UK called For Lewis. And they allowed us to use the cuddle blanket. And so hence here we got the cuddle blanket and the cuddle cot. Now we know what the cuddle cot is. We talk about it a lot in our podcast. We do, yes. But let's assume that someone's coming and this is the first podcast that they're listening to. Can you tell us the purpose or the why and what it is? Yes, of course. So basically it is a small unit that pumps cold water around a cool pad. And that cool pad is in contact with baby. Now that cool pad is designed to be used in Moses baskets, cribs, pots, car seats, I've known it be used in. As well as on the bed, I had some friends that unfortunately lost their baby at full term. They placed the cool pad under the top sheet. And that allowed mum and dad to lie on the bed with baby. And it was, which is what they would have done, had baby made it. It's all about allowing parents to be parents. So works very similar to when you scold your hand, you place it under a cold running tap. If it's particularly hot, you're getting to a cold running shower. And the cold water running against your body takes away the heat, which in this case is taken away from the deceased and allows the body to slow down the change, which will happen, the natural change. So the cool in process just slows that down, given the family more time. Can I also attest to the fact that I loved when you were talking to the nurses yesterday, that you even told them that it could be something that you place in your arms and then place baby on top. 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Mae'r gydim sylwg, mae'r gydim sylwg, mae'r gydim sylwg, mae'r gydim sylwg. Mae'r gydim sylwg. Mae'r gydim sylwg. Mae'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg. Mae'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg. Mae'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg i'r gydim sylwg. What was your first reaction? My first reaction was definitely that she was cold. Now granted, I had her on a Tuesday night at like 8.15 at night. So by that time my husband was there, my parents were there and I knew everyone at the hospital. So my nurses, the anesthesia staff were all very dear friends. So for a while I held her in the bed because I was post recovery from a C-section and still kind of had conversations with friends and with nurses. So we didn't initially put her in the cuddle cut. Of course we say the word we've kind of phrased the word grief brain. Some of that trauma erases a little bit of your memory. So that night is fuzzy that they did bring in the cuddle cut. I know she slept in that the first night. I unfortunately and I think there are many aspects of my grief journey as to influencing moha and what we're trying to do. And I think a lot of it is education based on how our experiences went and how we can make it that much better or different or more comforting for the next mom. And so I unfortunately never had someone say you can technically do skin to skin with her. I thought in my mind that I should keep her cold as much as possible. And so when I wasn't holding her and keeping her swaddled, I kept her in the cuddle cut. And so no one knew, I guess no one really knew at the hospital at the time because I was the first family to use the cuddle cut at that location. No one really educated me on, okay, you can undress her and still do skin to skin and then put her back in the cuddle cut. This doesn't have to be like a continuous thing. It's more of an adjunct to everything that you're doing with her. Steve, have you heard of moms laying the baby on their chest and then the cooling, like the cuddle cut cooling blanket going over the baby that way? I haven't, to be completely honest with you, no, I haven't heard of the mum actually having baby and chest. I can see a few issues there with the cooling process. Yeah, it would just be a bit too cold for mum, I feel. But there's no hard fast rule, how long they have to spend in the system, in the cuddle cut, how fast, sorry, how long they have to be held by mum. It's all about whatever they wish and again goes back to the education side of it and making sure that people understand how it's going to work. It isn't magic, but it just gives you that time and that opportunity to be apparent. Yeah, and I think I was, you know, we talk about kind of being in-vious of each other's situations. I remember kind of being in-vious of hearing Anna's story with Lilian because she did undress Lilian, she did create that bond with skin to skin time. And I just thought, okay, it's so imperative to keep her swaddled and bundled up and cold that I didn't get to experience some of the memories that Anna had with Lilian. So I think it's imperative that, you know, as we promote the cuddle cut that we also educate behind it, that yes, we want you to create those memories. And then when you're not creating the memories, you're not doing skin to skin that you, the baby can go back on top of the blanket and that's totally fine. I kind of blew my mind when Steve was talking to the nurses about holding the baby with the cuddle blanket, you know, and I believe that that's 100% of why we loved having both of you here, because you guys have the understanding of the versatility of the cuddle cut. And what we're trying to do is to, is to first and foremost, you know, obviously get them in the hospital system. So also the whole reason, so that you can make these memories with your baby. And so I love how the cuddle caught in our angel box go hand in hand together in that way where what we give to the hospitals will go together so that it's the optimal amount of time with your baby. And I, I'm going to, I was going to ask Colin a quick question and then we need to introduce Kevin, because Kevin said you're so basically, yeah. Honestly, it's been an awesome two days with them, but and Colin, what Steve was saying about, I had a question about that. So when you were saying that babies were taking to the morgue and when the mom would ask for them back, they would bring them back. Because that's a very foreign concept to us here in the States. And Colin had that feeling and I just, I wanted to know with Colin, you know, had that been an option for you to bring Carter back to you from the morgue. Like, how would that have, how would that have affected your bonding time with him? Yeah, who would you have been today? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that it would have changed a lot because I think that I didn't, until your face with it, you don't know that you're going to go into this like deep sadness and grief. And I think the cuddle caught and making those memories and being a parent, as Steve has said, allows you to transition into that grief, but I also got to make memories with my baby. And those, that's the time that I will never get back. I was under the influence of anesthesia medications. I was waking up from an emergency c section. So my grief brain coupled with anesthesia coming out of my system, my memories of like looking at him and holding him and taking his clothes off and pulling off his hat to look at his hair. I know I did all of those things and I have a picture in my mind, but I think it would have been a much more clear picture and memory that I could have held on to a little bit better, if you will. That would have helped me through the grief of not having that. And I did also, and I've said this a few times, and I don't know if I've said in the podcast, but staying in a hospital where I've passed off Carter, and he was taken down to a morgue. I work in a hospital, so I know how it works. I knew he was in the morgue because we hadn't picked a funeral home yet, so I'm now under the same roof as my baby in 14 floors between us. And that was agony. So Justin and I couldn't get out of that hospital fast enough. So it would have just changed your entire course of stay. So for sure, I mean, yeah, I, it was, and it would have just taken like one day. one nurse or one doctor or one person being like, you know, if the option to get him back from the morgue had been an option, then like, do you want, you know, do you want us to bring him back now that you're awake? I've even actually just talked to Justin about this last night. I was like, had I had Saturday, he was born on a Friday night, had I had Saturday morning with him where my sister could come into town. My mother-in-law could have come into town. It could have been their choice to meet him or not, but just knowing that I was more clear, I could have been like, you know, that memory of just passing him off to my sister, that to me, like, I know the memory of that with Connor and Hannah, so why wouldn't that with my first born son, but just as special? And I think you hit home kind of a message that I want listeners to hear is, Moha is also an advocate. You know, we talk about grief, brain, we talk about not being able to always process things correctly or understand how to put one foot in front of the other, not only in the hospital, but outside of the hospital, but because we have experienced this in all different forms and fashions, it's our job, would you not say, as Moha, to advocate for the best possible scenario for the next mom, right? You know, so to give her the tools, the tricks, the blanket, the books, the journal, and the cuddle cuts who are advocating for her and for her experience, right? Because of how we went through ours, yeah. - So let's get back to Kevin. - Okay, so yes, Kevin, hi! Kevin's naturally just real calm and quiet and is a good listener, so poor Kevin, he sometimes just gets kind of pushed to the side. We love you, Kevin, as well. Would you introduce yourself, tell us how you came about to be involved with the cuddle-cotted system with Flexmore? - Yeah. - Sure, so I'm Kevin, I'm the managing director of Flexmore, I've only been with the business for six months now, so I'm still amazed by the stories that you're telling and your experiences and bringing those to awareness. And I wanna say first of you, you three are just absolutely inspirational and it's just amazing to spend the last two days with you, so thank you. - So my experience is, I did retail for a number of years working for Wargreens Boots and my Mum passed away and I had not a great experience with the funeral director and I decided I was gonna have, I had a conversation in my own mind in the back of the limousine going to the crematorium that I could get a job in funeral and make a difference and two days later I got a call from a head hunter saying it's had a great opportunity for me but it might not be everybody's cup of tea and it was working in funeral, so I, yeah. My Mum was watching over me, I'm sure. - Yeah, it's exciting. - So I ran the third largest funeral organization in the UK. I went into that business completely unprepared for what the realities were like and drove a lot of change around how we cared for families, how we made the experience as personable as possible so that we made sure that we personalized every element of the funeral and I became aware of Cuddlecott from a colleague who had had an experience, baby loss and she said, Kevin, we have to buy this. So I took her advice, I got to meet Steve and I bought 12 of them as a funeral business. We had 130 homes across the Midlands of the UK and we put a Cuddlecott into 12 funeral homes so that families could use the Cuddlecott when the worst situation occurred. That was something that we did entirely for me. I introduced three funerals for all children under 18 and the Cuddlecott was part of that package that we would offer for families who had gone through such a loss. - So, Kevin, would you tell me? - In an iron boat. - Was it about the funeral home? - No, what was your idea? Was your idea originally so families would be able to have the Cuddlecott in the hospital and then what was your idea of buying them for you? - Yeah, the idea for the Cuddlecott in terms of the business I was running was twofold. Really one was to support hospitals that didn't have a unit, didn't have a Cuddlecott but also that families could then take a baby home and I think that was really important for families. It's a choice that I think in the UK is now more prevalent and if a hospital at that time only had one Cuddlecott, at least we had a spare that people could utilize. - In the calm. - Yeah, it was a real interesting one in terms of the colleagues, the people who were dealing with parents and families, they absolutely loved the fact that we'd purchased this product. We had people who were trained by Steve at the time and it was a bit of a harder sell with some of the people who I reported to in terms of the, I guess the finances around why we were doing this because it was very much about supporting the community and supporting people in those desperate times. - And it was comforting to hear that portion of your story because Moha hit a little snag recently and we were able to overcome it and work through it. So it was interesting to hear that we're not the only ones that kind of hit bumps in the road with people understanding the concept of extended time with their deceased child, why it's important, why we do it. So it was kind of like this light bulb moment, like man, we're not the only ones experiencing hiccups with this. - Our little pushback. - Yeah, some people can be close to the idea until you actually start to explain what benefits the Cuddlecott brings. For me, it's about identity to a huge extent. It gives parents the opportunity to become a parent. It acknowledges them as a parent as well. And I think the third thing is, I think Holland has already said it, but that realization that baby's been cared for because baby's next to you, it's not in the morgue on a different level in the building. It's close to you. And you know that reassurance that baby's been cared for. - I wanted to slow down and back up just a minute because you purchased 12 for your funeral home, for your whole, I guess, multiple homes, funeral homes. Again, such a foreign idea, I think, to us in the States. What did you, when you would bring a Cuddlecott into your funeral home, would parents come and take baby with the Cuddlecott and spend time with them at your funeral home, or would they take the Cuddlecott and the baby back with them to their house and spend time with them there? 'Cause to me, both are foreign to us. - Yeah. - That blows our minds. - That would have been amazing. And I know for some listeners, if you have not experienced a loss, it might sound like, maybe not. That might cause you more mental distress by taking them home and doing all that. What's important to remember is those first things that you won't miss out with your baby can be done. We all know that the baby will be returned, buried, put at peace and rest. But having those first moments are so imperative and to be able to have those first moments at home. I mean, all of us here sitting here. - What do you have to do? - Side up for that heartbeat. - So I'm just curious, when you bought those Cuddlecotts, were you releasing them back to the families for them to spend time at home with them? - We were doing exactly that. We were allowing parents to take the Cuddlecott home. And if they were going home from a hospital, there was a Cuddlecott waiting for them at home. Equally, we were allowing the hospitals to loan a Cuddlecott free of charge as well so that they could care for parents who had gone through a loss of a child. And we also had the Cuddlecott in the funeral homes so if families didn't want to take baby home and wanted to visit their baby in the chapel, then we would equally do that. So it became quite a flexible way that the Cuddlecott was used. I was amazed at the impact that the Cuddlecott had yes for the colleagues in terms of them and understanding that we were here to care and look after families and create those memories 'cause that was a very important part of the vision that I had for the funeral business about enhancing the memories and love for somebody that you've lost. And that was absolutely my vision for the funeral, business that I ran. So the Cuddlecott was just an extension of that but also I was just incredibly proud around how the Cuddlecott really started to support families and start to understand and come to terms with the loss of their baby. As a result of that, I was off of the opportunity to come and join FlexMort and help in terms of expanding it across the world and it's something that's very important to me is about how do we help more people? How do we help more communities across the world? And that's something that's part of our vision as well and our mission. You just said enhance memories and make memories with babies and I think that that's kind of what I was trying to get at was I had had such a traumatic experience. We all had such traumatic experiences. So our last memories of our baby should not be knowing that they went off to the morgue. I didn't get to take pictures. I didn't get family to meet them. You're enhancing these beautiful memories as a parent that we will get to hang on to when that was robbed of us. We say that a lot. Sure, sure. Yeah, we definitely feel robbed of a lot of certain situations that we just weren't able to be a part of. That brings me back to Kevin. Steve, sorry. I'm looking at Kevin and talking to Steve. Another kind of light bulb moment I had was when you explain to us, and this does not happen in the United States, or anywhere that I've ever heard of, that two questions are asked of Mom, and those are what when she delivers. Yes, so the two questions that the nursing team, bereavement team will ask the mum and dad, parents, will be, firstly, would you like to spend time with baby? So generally, that's a yes, hence the cuddle cut is used in the bereavement streets or wherever it may be. The second question, which I know does shock a lot of the Americans I meet when I come out to the exhibitions and things like, we've just done over the last 48 hours, is, have you considered taking baby home? Now, that's a huge statement because they probably haven't at that stage, if I'm honest, but the nursing team and the bereavement team know how to put it into place, know how to do the operation, how simple it is, as long as they point out to the family that it's a normal thing, it's what is done, and why not? So I was actually at the conference. It was in Scotland, it was about nine years ago, where the cuddle cut was being used in hospitals, and there was about 200 people in the audience, and they were on stage asking questions, and they asked that question. So they asked the nursing team in the conference, have you ever allowed a baby to go home repairants? And nobody out of the 200 people had said yes. Now, that came down to, quite rightly so, lack of knowledge that was all, because nobody knew that it could be done, nobody knew that it was allowed, and nobody knew how to do it. So there is now papers in place which enable the nursing team to go through a simple checklist and says, "Right, okay, what needs to be done, who do we need to inform?" And then the hospital event place cuddle cut with the family, and then the family can take baby home. So at the conference, I just mentioned, this was discussed, training was a place, everybody was so, this is how it's going to work, everybody saw the cuddle cut in use, and at the end of the conference, they asked for 200 people or so, "Would you now allow baby to go home with mum?" And of course, it was 100% across the board, because they knew how to do it. And that's all it is. And it's just allowing the extension, as Kevin mentioned, of the nice pathway of care from hospital, funeral home, if need be, home, if need be, it's what the parent's choice. That's got to come first. Taking baby home may not be for everybody, and there needs to be plans in place, where the family may have changed their mind, and that goes back to the use of the cuddle cut. I think the families should be asked, "Would you like to spend time with baby?" They may say no, but I don't think it's a one-off question. I think that question should then be asked a little while later. How are you feeling? "Would you like now, like spend time with baby?" Because things change all the time. Well, yeah, and you changed your thought process changes so much from day to day. I mean, yes, hour to hour, but man, I was a different person the second day. Couldn't wait for people to come and visit. Again, I was at a hospital, knew a lot of the staff, and so I knew friends were going to come visit. And couldn't wait to show her off, whereas I don't know if I would have felt the same way. Like, "Oh my gosh, I'm holding my deceased child." You're in a state of shock. Yeah. And it doesn't even sink in. Can I just on now, from a funeral perspective, whether it's a satimized child or an adult, I think that shock is there for everybody. Clearly, it's even more acute when you're looking forward to the life of your child. It's something I think that's important in terms of funeral homes as well. We've really been aware that people are in a vulnerable state, and how do you have the right conversation at the right time, and really listen to people about what's right for them. So, if you asked people who had gone through a bereavement, and whether they were satisfied with the service, they would always say, "Yes." Because what they meant was you got them through the most difficult time of their life. I always wanted to understand five years' time. Would they still say the same? And most people, they don't. They feel like they made decisions that weren't right for them. They didn't direct to denast the right questions. They ended up going along with the wishes of the funeral director, as opposed to the wishes of the parents. And I think that's exactly the same for healthcare professionals as well. It's who's making the decision, is it? Is it the parents or is it the healthcare professional? Is it the funeral director? I would certainly advocate more, more your. We're articulating, is asking questions, and understanding, listening to what parents actually want. Our bereavement nurses are beautiful bereavement nurses who kind of. not specialise in this, but do it more often than other nurses, have said something like asking the question to choices, and then in an hour ask a different question, maybe the same question, but in a different way, two choices. Because grieving are bereaved family and the parents. Sometimes we don't even know how to answer it. And they're like, just do it, you know, and then put that control back into their hands. I'll say just for training purposes, I love that point. Because as Kevin was saying, if you are, even for us, as we reach out to moms and develop our Angel Ambassador program, reaching out within a week is fine and great, but you're right, you're going to probably get a one word answer that might be, yeah, it was fine. So reaching out in a year's time, I think is really important to. if you would like to actually grow and change and make a difference in your bereavement services. But we kind of touched on the benefits of the cuddle-cott and what it allows for families. So I was going to let Holland ask a little bit about the feedback. What is some of the feedback that you've received about parents using the cuddle-cott? It can be a specific situation, it can be just a general. But what's the feedback from parents and also the hospitals? Okay, well I'll pick up on that. One of my roles is, I'm quite lucky I get to see quite a few families after the case. I do quite a lot of fundraising events, particularly in the US, which is great and you meet a bunch of great people. You meet people that are very much behind the cuddle-cott, you meet professionals, and you also meet a lot of families that have used the cuddle-cot. Now, and I will talk to them, they tell me stories, which is lovely to hear. We're all there and we'll be in the huddle-whip. There'll be tears, of course there'll be tears. But the word that comes out, unused the most, is joy. How much joy they got spending time with their baby, whether it was just a loan, whether it was as a family, whether it was inviting grandmothers, aunts, uncles, grandfathers, come and meet your grandson, your nephew. It's just that joyous moment they had of extended their family and letting everybody bond with baby. It just helps so much with the grieving. From the professional side, it's just the complete care that someone can offer. The mum has gone in, it hasn't gone as planned, hence the cuddle-cot has to be used. But it just means that the midwife, the bereavement team can come in. I've met some wonderful bereavement nurses. I met two fantastic ones yesterday and you go above and beyond. It's just saying, "Well, okay, hasn't gone as it was planned, we still want to help you. We still want you to make sure you have a great experience. There is time to do that." I think it helps everybody across the board. It's not easy for the professionals when there's a demise. Obviously, that's not what they're there for. But again, it can also help them as well. They can see the family when they leave. Everything's just control back to the family, which is how it should be. Is it a proud moment for you? Of course, this is a silly question. You're over here, not in your head. Kevin said, "Is that not show you the power of the product when a word like joy is synonymous?" I guess not synonymous, but it's grouped into a time of something that's not joyful. So, you're creating emotions or allowing emotions to come forth that probably would never have occurred with such a deep and sorrowful time. Very much so. The whole company and the relatively small. There's nine of us back in the UK. We all share stories. I'm forever going in to say, "This is what I've been doing. This is who I've been seeing." We're all very, very proud of the cuddlecock. eu Noorau Roedd yn bumri ddawddba b tbspyn i'r gwan inclu pethio'r gre. Gen gweld hon, pethio'r greu brolygu Oedd Stitchy bra RAM Mae sicau mewn ROmprell oedd yn y cyrchwyrddio'r greu brolygu yn y cyrchwyrddio'r greu yn ymg i'r gwaithio'r gwaithio yn y cyrchwyrddio yn y cyrchwyrddio yn ymg i'r gwaithio yn ymg i'r gwaithio yn ymg i'r gwaithio yn ymg i'r gwaithio a'r gwaithio'r gwaithio yn ymg i'r gwaithio a'r gwaithio yn ymg i'r gwaithio a'r gwaithio It's complete care. You're not just stopping at this didn't go out turn out the way we wanted. And that's another mark of an exceptional nurse, our bereavement nurses. You know, you can be a great nurse. You can do everything the way you're suppose to, but an exceptional nurse is that nurse that goes above and beyond and provides that complete care of mom, and baby, and the family that's there, and then putting it back into their hands and letting them kind of take their reins on how they want these memories to be made. You mentioned pride, and we are incredibly proud. I'm incredibly proud of benefits at the Kudalcott things, but I also feel paying when I hear people don't get to use the Kudalcott, and that's such a sadness that people have missed out on some of those opportunities. I think it's hiding some of the things we're just talking about there about, you know, our mission and our vision. Very much, the vision is about across the world when the need arises, our families informed about the Kudalcott, and is it ready and available to support them? That's both in terms of the product physically being in the hospital, but also whether the staff, the healthcare professionals are confident enough to have the conversation with the parents, and that they know how to operate the Kudalcott as well. There's a real purpose in what we're trying to do, and we want to facilitate all those opportunities for bereaved parents to enact that role as parents, but also one of the things that's really important to us is that we raise awareness of still birth and near-natal death, and that's very much ingrained in what we're trying to do, and part of that is spending time with you. But also, how do we work with other organisations like yourself just to raise this awareness? I would say that maybe we need with the help of Moha and time, and Kudalcott, that we can break that stigma, that has gone over generations of you've had a loss, let's brush it under the rug, move on, we don't talk about it, we just don't discuss it, and life carries on. Moha has kind of through meeting and creating what we've created so far that now in this generation that doesn't work. And that was going to be in line with that, my next question about how to bring about awareness, and "normalize it", and I know Steve, yesterday talked about a TV show that had the Kudalcott on it, and did a very good job of representing how to use it, and why to use it? Yes, a TV show you mentioned there was New Amsterdam by NBC in America, how that came about is I was contacted by an American prop company, and they contacted us and said, "Can we borrow a Kudalcott?" And it isn't the first time we've been approached, so I obviously said yes, and you take it, and we heard nothing at all, and then all of a sudden my phone was going mad and late at night, and it was all my American friends, various nonprofit groups saying, "You never told me the Kudalcott was in Hollywood, and it was shown at prime time on New Amsterdam, and it's fantastically well done, and I would really, really recommend anybody to watch it." I wonder if there's a YouTube episode, if we can figure out which episode it is, and we can plug it on our website. Steve said, "Well, as long as it's from NBC, right?" Maybe? I don't know. Why don't you check with our website? So we'll figure out which episode that was, and you can go look it up. It's not on our website. Well, I'm going to go ahead and close this out if that's okay. Only because I have a really important question for both of you. What is your favorite part about Texas? After being here for two whole days, and we haven't finished yet, we're taking them to a restaurant called the Taste of Texas tonight, getting them a really big steak. Really good. Fixings and all of that. But what do you think your favorite part about visiting Texas is? Other than us. Other than us. Oh, well, nothing there. I'm lucky enough I've travelled around the US. I've been to various cities. I was in Chicago the beginning of this week. What I like about Texas is obviously everything's big. I'm expecting a steak to be as big as my face. But I'm going to have to go back to the hospitals we visited yesterday. The care, passion from the team, especially Heather, was out of this world. The two bereavement midwives at the other hospital, I can't remember which one that's been a while, a couple of days. Just how excited they were about everything. The way that people care, there's much more that can be done. We know that. But that and obviously the weather would be more famous. It's nice to get a bit of warmth. But the margarita you had last night was not your favorite part. This was Steve's first margarita. It was my first margarita. I don't know why. I don't think we did it just yet. It wasn't my favorite one either. It can't be the last one you tried. Kevin, what was your favorite part? Ich folderu. Waith dewn um mewn irian hoi'r anim嗎au. E da yma to i cod fy rek fillaill cynrall? Mae a wneudw wrth ddon o'n�adus. Asio yn y себя hynny. ¿Egu bod沖yn yn y cyfer gigiaundi? Roedd un oedd ym fer hyn gynwsquellaill yn hyn g pir mae? Mae! Ryd ddoedd gallu'r minna systematicydd a bob mae'r rydyn ceebu oedd yma. —Lewch yn gry examiningor. I? Arff Lyweddonそ ai сот brote honin. Traff Lywch encr champen ddaolau ac ynodan ddaol fr Servioedward i pwannam fwch연 ni fod drweddi ac fw beth yn ffwchunsr personio a'r cont irritated ein ar sabda mewn barbyn unrhyw trwy'r olia frosig i fod i folli i siolau yn ni de像or i toxinfoondin Felly mae'n mynd oed? gin i. Y byðubró. …gwch yn y defnyddio yn y ffwchio ac y ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau ac yna ffwchio'r ddiolau [Muziek]